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View Full Version : Is AA just a glorified Envoy?


TeeRainPULup
04-25-2019, 08:20 AM
I know that almost anything is better than Envoy. Thatís a given. The question is.... is Big Daddy Doug turning AA into a place we want to spend our careers at? The way things are going with upper management at AA doesnít look much brighter than Envoy. Everybody wants to go to a legacy mainline, but when I ride the jumpseat itís sounds like Envoy management is at AA.


wildcat1
04-25-2019, 09:04 AM
I know that almost anything is better than Envoy. Thatís a given. The question is.... is Big Daddy Doug turning AA into a place we want to spend our careers at? The way things are going with upper management at AA doesnít look much brighter than Envoy. Everybody wants to go to a legacy mainline, but when I ride the jumpseat itís sounds like Envoy management is at AA.

What part of Envoy do you think Envoy has control over? AA isn't a big Envoy. Envoy is a little AA.

NoValueAviator
04-25-2019, 09:36 AM
Wildcat basically answered your question. The market does show that AAís strategy is not working but I donít think Envoy mgmtís seething contempt for itís mostly well-meaning line employees is really part of that. It has more to do with charging Delta prices for Spirit service with a large helping of exposure to bitter, angry customer facing employees you canít get in such a concentration at any other airline.


Cyio
04-25-2019, 09:48 AM
Wildcat basically answered your question. The market does show that AAís strategy is not working but I donít think Envoy mgmtís seething contempt for itís mostly well-meaning line employees is really part of that. It has more to do with charging Delta prices for Spirit service with a large helping of exposure to bitter, angry customer facing employees you canít get in such a concentration at any other airline.

This pretty much sums it up really. While Delta does things to improve passenger comfort, we cram more seats in the back with the excuse that we "will give customers more options" bull****. If people want rock bottom prices with no frills and al la carte pricing that's what the LCC's are for, not a mainline carrier. We should be prioritizing experience first, price second and only try to compete with the legacy carriers in that respect.

I dont think Doug will be around too much longer if things continue down this road. I mean they can't even use stock value as a reason to keep him anymore.

pitchattitude
04-25-2019, 10:06 AM
This pretty much sums it up really. While Delta does things to improve passenger comfort, we cram more seats in the back with the excuse that we "will give customers more options" bull****. If people want rock bottom prices with no frills and al la carte pricing that's what the LCC's are for, not a mainline carrier. We should be prioritizing experience first, price second and only try to compete with the legacy carriers in that respect.

I dont think Doug will be around too much longer if things continue down this road. I mean they can't even use stock value as a reason to keep him anymore.

If we can get rid of Doug, maybe they wonít have an excuse to keep Mesa on board either.

450knotOffice
04-25-2019, 10:16 AM
As much as things can improve at AA, the realistic fact is that the overall employment experience at AA is eminently better than at Envoy.

GCPhoenix
04-25-2019, 10:50 AM
I'm sure I could tolerate a lot more BS if I'm getting paid 4x as much, so there's that...

Cyio
04-25-2019, 12:29 PM
I'm sure I could tolerate a lot more BS if I'm getting paid 4x as much, so there's that...

This. This 100%

arbatistoni
04-25-2019, 12:55 PM
Wildcat basically answered your question. The market does show that AAís strategy is not working but I donít think Envoy mgmtís seething contempt for itís mostly well-meaning line employees is really part of that. It has more to do with charging Delta prices for Spirit service with a large helping of exposure to bitter, angry customer facing employees you canít get in such a concentration at any other airline.

hahahahah true.....sigh

Throwitaway
04-25-2019, 01:14 PM
I wonder if AAG is aware that the flow is going to bring in a bunch of bitter regional folks that are hell bent at getting their due and proper after being beat up for the previous 7-9 years.

There is alot of side effect to this regional game. FUPM won't just be a regional cry, it'll be a mainline way of life from now till infinity. MAAGA

450knotOffice
04-25-2019, 01:31 PM
I'm sure I could tolerate a lot more BS if I'm getting paid 4x as much, so there's that...


That, and that there's nowhere near as much BS to put up with.

SkylineAviation
04-25-2019, 01:33 PM
I wonder if AAG is aware that the flow is going to bring in a bunch of bitter regional folks that are hell bent at getting their due and proper after being beat up for the previous 7-9 years.

There is alot of side effect to this regional game. FUPM won't just be a regional cry, it'll be a mainline way of life from now till infinity. MAAGA

Itís nothing new unfortunately. We were flowing guys at 20+ years then 18, 16, etc all the way down to where we are now due to the lost decade, great recession, and subsequent bankruptcy. They were just as beat up and bitter (if not more) as the current group of PP going now.

29Eleven
04-25-2019, 01:43 PM
I'm sure I could tolerate a lot more BS if I'm getting paid 4x as much, so there's that...

Imagine that. Using your 175/190 type rating that you already hold to get paid 4-5 times as much. It always surprises me that people donít talk about this fact more.

FlyPurdue
04-25-2019, 01:55 PM
Imagine that. Using your 175/190 type rating that you already hold to get paid 4-5 times as much. It always surprises me that people donít talk about this fact more.

That is a great point, and fortunately that way of thinking is starting to show up more and more across the industry. When I was a -175 FO, I can remember landing in IAH from ORD, and parking right next to a -190 from PHL, and just shaking my head at the contradiction. It's funny too, because there are still a lot of people that say our captains need more experience before they can fly the same plane again as an FO. Someone earlier said stop calling us regional pilots, but rather call us 'B scale' pilots.

Excargodog
04-25-2019, 02:39 PM
I wonder if AAG is aware that the flow is going to bring in a bunch of bitter regional folks that are hell bent at getting their due and proper after being beat up for the previous 7-9 years.

There is alot of side effect to this regional game. FUPM won't just be a regional cry, it'll be a mainline way of life from now till infinity. MAAGA

Naw. They'll find a legalistic gizmo to let them do away with flow. It has happened elsewhere.

dbflyer
04-25-2019, 05:00 PM
I know that almost anything is better than Envoy. Thatís a given.

If that's what you know, you must be lucky to be young and have had an easy life. If all goes well in this industry, hope that continues for you:)

TheRaven
04-25-2019, 05:10 PM
I wonder if AAG is aware that the flow is going to bring in a bunch of bitter regional folks that are hell bent at getting their due and proper after being beat up for the previous 7-9 years....

7-9 whole years....wow.

dera
04-25-2019, 05:26 PM
7-9 whole years....wow.

It's a lifetime for an average millennial.

Bassman1985
04-25-2019, 06:11 PM
That is a great point, and fortunately that way of thinking is starting to show up more and more across the industry. When I was a -175 FO, I can remember landing in IAH from ORD, and parking right next to a -190 from PHL, and just shaking my head at the contradiction. It's funny too, because there are still a lot of people that say our captains need more experience before they can fly the same plane again as an FO. Someone earlier said stop calling us regional pilots, but rather call us 'B scale' pilots.

Sadly, it seems that the concept of ďequal pay for equal workĒ only applies to your plumbing. God bless America...



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