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View Full Version : July 8/9 class


jetlaggy
05-30-2019, 09:27 AM
Welcome aboard


Swedish Blender
05-30-2019, 01:39 PM
Be prepared to study.

Couple new hires haven't made the cut recently.

JohnnyR
05-30-2019, 01:56 PM
Any details?


MileHighClub
05-30-2019, 02:40 PM
Be prepared to study.

Couple new hires haven't made the cut recently.

How so? Did they fail out of sim training?

MrBobRoss
05-30-2019, 05:33 PM
What were their backgrounds? More details, please.

Swedish Blender
05-30-2019, 05:36 PM
Not giving backgrounds.

One during sim, one prior to sim.

MrBobRoss
05-30-2019, 05:42 PM
“Prior to sim”: does that mean they failed an oral multiple times or are there written tests that weren't passed? Just trying to understand exactly what to expect and where the potential stumbling blocks are. I’m sure you can appreciate the new hires have a vested interest in this so we can see and avoid.

robxjt27
05-30-2019, 05:57 PM
Donít listen to scare tactics. The failure rate at UPS is no more alarming than any other major airline failure rate. The only person that I have specifically heard of that had issues came out of a King Air.
Itís AQP with all the same maneuvers as any other training syllabus that you have experienced. Show up prepared and rested. Practice good CRM with your sim partner in and out of class/sim. Lastly, have and maintain a good attitude. Thatís all you need to succeed. The hiring department does a good job of interviewing more than qualified candidates.

MrBobRoss
05-30-2019, 06:11 PM
Thank you, Robxjt27! I was starting to feel pretty bummed out and nervous. Not a great foot to start off on! I appreciate your feedback and outlook.

Swedish Blender
05-30-2019, 06:43 PM
Donít listen to scare tactics. The failure rate at UPS is no more alarming than any other major airline failure rate. The only person that I have specifically heard of that had issues came out of a King Air.
Itís AQP with all the same maneuvers as any other training syllabus that you have experienced. Show up prepared and rested. Practice good CRM with your sim partner in and out of class/sim. Lastly, have and maintain a good attitude. Thatís all you need to succeed. The hiring department does a good job of interviewing more than qualified candidates.

Saying you need to study and saying a couple people havenít made it is now a scare tactic. Wasnít small airplane drivers.

So, moral of the other posts, everyone makes it from all backgrounds as long as you have a good attitude.:rolleyes:

767pilot
05-30-2019, 09:32 PM
Attitude is key, they need you and want you to succeed.

Do we even have orals anymore?

MrBobRoss
05-31-2019, 02:06 AM
Letís talk about something more positive now. This is great news classes seem to be held every month- do you know how many people on average are in each class? And how long does the entire program run? Congratulations to all who will be in class!

BoilerUP
05-31-2019, 03:15 AM
Plan 8-10 weeks in the schoolhouse from Day One through completion of all sim training...with perhaps longer if given a short break during training (757 folks have seen 2-4 weeks off between BI and systems/procedures, not sure about other fleets).

Show up, study, have a positive attitude, have a tiny ego, and if you feel you need ďhelpĒ ASK FOR IT.

And no kung fu in Ubers.

SaltyDog
05-31-2019, 07:02 AM
Sidebar distraction:

Technique Only New hires:
Welcome Aboard!
During the excitement of the first two weeks, Start learning how to use the search functions on the company issued EFK (iPad) when you get it issued. You are responsible to study the material contained in this device. Problem is, like anything new electronically presented, takes time to get familiar and then comfortable where items are located and how to find them. Normal.
Despite what told, start looking ahead to get familiar where items are located at first opportunity. Don't need to study procedures' etc, just gain familiarity with where items are in the electronic books and he search capabilities. Which folders contain what materials and references. Example: Know whats in the electronic books in the "Training" folder collection. Which ones give you the info you need.
How is the Aircraft Operations Manual designed (AOM) and items contained in what chapters, Flight Operations Manual (FOM 1 and FOM2). Which ebook in the Training folder has the Syllabus so know what to study the next day.
Where updates to the EFK happens daily (except on weekends) be familiar with the process. Not any reason to not make it through though.
My summary view: Its demanding (but whose training programs aren't?) Time management is important. As pointed out, not new, the eternal axiom of work with your classmates and your sim partner.
The anecdotal experience I'm familiar, its the ones who go it alone, or are single training assigned (rare) that typically have a tougher time because harder to refine the information and reinforce material and get classmate feedback during study time. Classmates/sim partners are good folks to help keep each other on track. Then ask an instructor after can't solve a question.

Prepare your family for a long time away. (Say 6-7 weeks or so) Weekends (days off if have Tues/Wed for example, are really to catch up studying, catch up on sleep, actually eat a relaxing sit down meal, laundry etc). IMO, first weekend go home, then stay for duration if going through a 5 day a week pace. If get delayed... then enjoy some home visits.
IMO, UPS doesn't hire anyone that cant get through. (except me but I had great sim partners,classmates and instructors :D )
Congrats on UPS!

Madella0124
05-31-2019, 07:51 AM
Can the company issued iPad be used for personal use, Netflix, internet, personal apps? Or, is it locked out with only company issued material available? My current pad might be taken back by my current gig when I leave and I will be lost without it.

TillerThriller
05-31-2019, 07:58 AM
Sidebar distraction:

Technique Only New hires:
Welcome Aboard!
During the excitement of the first two weeks, Start learning how to use the search functions on the company issued EFK (iPad) when you get it issued. You are responsible to study the material contained in this device. Problem is, like anything new electronically presented, takes time to get familiar and then comfortable where items are located and how to find them. Normal.
Despite what told, start looking ahead to get familiar where items are located at first opportunity. Don't need to study procedures' etc, just gain familiarity with where items are in the electronic books and he search capabilities. Which folders contain what materials and references. Example: Know whats in the electronic books in the "Training" folder collection. Which ones give you the info you need.
How is the Aircraft Operations Manual designed (AOM) and items contained in what chapters, Flight Operations Manual (FOM 1 and FOM2). Which ebook in the Training folder has the Syllabus so know what to study the next day.
Where updates to the EFK happens daily (except on weekends) be familiar with the process. Not any reason to not make it through though.
My summary view: Its demanding (but whose training programs aren't?) Time management is important. As pointed out, not new, the eternal axiom of work with your classmates and your sim partner.
The anecdotal experience I'm familiar, its the ones who go it alone, or are single training assigned (rare) that typically have a tougher time because harder to refine the information and reinforce material and get classmate feedback during study time. Classmates/sim partners are good folks to help keep each other on track. Then ask an instructor after can't solve a question.

Prepare your family for a long time away. (Say 6-7 weeks or so) Weekends (days off if have Tues/Wed for example, are really to catch up studying, catch up on sleep, actually eat a relaxing sit down meal, laundry etc). IMO, first weekend go home, then stay for duration if going through a 5 day a week pace. If get delayed... then enjoy some home visits.
IMO, UPS doesn't hire anyone that cant get through. (except me but I had great sim partners,classmates and instructors :D )
Congrats on UPS!


Great Advice and look forward to starting. Tentatively have a July 9th start as long as paperwork comes back ok. Canít wait!!

SaltyDog
05-31-2019, 08:00 AM
Can the company issued iPad be used for personal use, Netflix, internet, personal apps? Or, is it locked out with only company issued material available? My current pad might be taken back by my current gig when I leave and I will be lost without it.

Good question:
UPS letter of agreement says for UPS business use only. Advise NOT to place any personal emails, Netflix etc
Can you load personal stuff? Yes, but UPS controls your company issued device. Buy a personal device for personal use, UPS device business use. Fair enough and and smart to honor their "UPS business use only" position IMO.

Madella0124
05-31-2019, 08:50 AM
Thanks for everyoneís responses to the many questions Iíve had. Iím very excited to get going. Let us know when those FJOs start rolling in for the July classes.

MrBobRoss
05-31-2019, 11:09 AM
Thank you for taking the time to pass along that very helpful info- can definitely see where learning that stuff ASAP will make things smoother. Anybody get an FJO yet? I keep staring at my phone like a dog waiting for its food bowl to be filled

BrownDoubles
05-31-2019, 01:59 PM
Thank you for taking the time to pass along that very helpful info- can definitely see where learning that stuff ASAP will make things smoother. Anybody get an FJO yet? I keep staring at my phone like a dog waiting for its food bowl to be filled

Don't expect your "food bowl to be filled" until 2-3 weeks before class.

767pilot
05-31-2019, 02:23 PM
Salty, are you sure about this? I thought that when the new iPad came out they gave us the option for dual personal /company use. I think it was mentioned in the setup guidance.

Mobile Iron is no longer on there but I'm told that there is some sort of nanny software at some level. An eb guy told me the they didn't care if you were using Ebay but if you used YouPorn you much hear from someone.

I haven't pressed to test on tuff but I have put a lot of personal stuff on there from Kindle and USA Today (for layovers only of course) to Netflix and Foreflight without hearing anything.

I would never put anything too personal, like my Gmail account, on there. I imagine if push comes to shove they can see what was on and when, and after all, it's their device you are borrowing.

CactusCrew
05-31-2019, 02:37 PM
Salty, are you sure about this? I thought that when the new iPad came out they gave us the option for dual personal /company use. I think it was mentioned in the setup guidance.

Mobile Iron is no longer on there but I'm told that there is some sort of nanny software at some level. An eb guy told me the they didn't care if you were using Ebay but if you used YouPorn you much hear from someone.

I haven't pressed to test on tuff but I have put a lot of personal stuff on there from Kindle and USA Today (for layovers only of course) to Netflix and Foreflight without hearing anything.

I would never put anything too personal, like my Gmail account, on there. I imagine if push comes to shove they can see what was on and when, and after all, it's their device you are borrowing.

I've used mine in much the same manner. Light internet browsing, reading, etc. No real personal accounts besides a couple apps to watch sports, movies, etc. Just use common sense, if there is still such a thing. If they want to go after someone for off duty usage, I guess we won't be alone.

I don't think that we are just "borrowing" their device. We maintain it and keep it current. They could install EFKs on the jet, then maintenance and currency is their responsibility. See how well that would work, they couldn't even keep manuals current that only updated every 2 weeks !

As we may recall, if it comes down to an accident/incident investigation, there is no real difference between business and personal electronic devices. They will have access to ALL of it and know everything you were doing for hours prior.

navigatro
05-31-2019, 05:40 PM
but if you used YouPorn you much hear from someone.



what is this "YouPorn" you speak of? ;)

SaltyDog
05-31-2019, 06:25 PM
Salty, are you sure about this? I thought that when the new iPad came out they gave us the option for dual personal /company use. I think it was mentioned in the setup guidance.

Mobile Iron is no longer on there but I'm told that there is some sort of nanny software at some level. An eb guy told me the they didn't care if you were using Ebay but if you used YouPorn you much hear from someone.

I haven't pressed to test on tuff but I have put a lot of personal stuff on there from Kindle and USA Today (for layovers only of course) to Netflix and Foreflight without hearing anything.

I would never put anything too personal, like my Gmail account, on there. I imagine if push comes to shove they can see what was on and when, and after all, it's their device you are borrowing.

Mobile Iron is no longer on there but I'm told that there is some sort of nanny software at some level. An eb guy told me the they didn't care if you were using Ebay but if you used YouPorn you much hear from someone.

I haven't pressed to test on tuff but I have put a lot of personal stuff on there from Kindle and USA Today (for layovers only of course) to Netflix and Foreflight without hearing anything.

I would never put anything too personal, like my Gmail account, on there. I imagine if push comes to shove they can see what was on and when, and after all, it's their device you are borrowing.

Electronic Flight Kit MOU is in effect and still the guiding document agreed upon by UPS and IPA even though as you recall UPS Guidance on EFK 2.1 Setup Version 5 which stated the following:
"Personal Setup (optional)

This section describes the process to set up your EFK 2.1 so it can be used as a Company OwnedPersonally Enabled (CO-PE) device. This will allow you to use it for personal use as well as your UPS EFK. For data previously stored on the EFK 2.0 device, this assumes the steps in the Backup section above were completed prior to retirement of the EFK 2.0 iPad.

NOTE: Use of your EFK 2.1 as a personal device must be in accordance with the UPS Information Security Policy and UPS/IPA EFK Memorandum of Understanding. The UPS Information Security Policy is available on the EFK portal. Please ensure you are familiar with this policy. "

The EFK MOU still remains and is source/guiding document:
"Use of the device will be limited to accessing FAA approved materials and official UPS business only, including but not limited to the AOM, IOM, FOM and related bulletins. The device will be configured in a manner precluding the download of personal applications. Should a crewmember use the device browser or other features of the device for personal reasons any such use must be in accordance with the Company's electronic communications' policy, consistent with this MOU and the Contract."

Our only disciplinary protection is "Protection from Discipline, Liability. Article 5.G.2.-5 shall apply to the initial EFK device selected or any successor device as it relates to any work-related use. No disciplinary action shall be taken based on any information that the Company may obtain through the device's location tracking system. "

Can we be disciplined for personal use? Yes. Can you get away with it? Yes. Are you guaranteed? No.
The EFK 2.1 Setup Guidance you remembered is really designed to allow us to download apps that enhance our official UPS business. Different apps for weather, crew planning apps, Crew RO split times, anything that applies to flying airplanes for UPS. Initially, we had to get approved for UPS authorized apps. Cumbersome process. Now the responsibility and liability is on the pilot.
Should a new hire fool with it? I don't use it except per agreement, but I have been behind the door. Personal choice. Minimize liability. I can afford my own ipad or PED.
New hires are well advised to abide by the technical rules IMO.
Cheers

mrvmo
05-31-2019, 08:20 PM
I've used mine in much the same manner. Light internet browsing, reading, etc. No real personal accounts besides a couple apps to watch sports, movies, etc. Just use common sense, if there is still such a thing. If they want to go after someone for off duty usage, I guess we won't be alone.

I don't think that we are just "borrowing" their device. We maintain it and keep it current. They could install EFKs on the jet, then maintenance and currency is their responsibility. See how well that would work, they couldn't even keep manuals current that only updated every 2 weeks !

As we may recall, if it comes down to an accident/incident investigation, there is no real difference between business and personal electronic devices. They will have access to ALL of it and know everything you were doing for hours prior.

I am in this boat also.....just try to stay off the beastiality sites with company IPads.....

Night_Hawk
06-06-2019, 05:52 AM
I am in this boat also.....just try to stay off the beastiality sites with company IPads.....


I'm screwed now....

MrBobRoss
06-06-2019, 02:59 PM
I'm screwed now....

I donít think furry conventions count

CCCXCI
06-09-2019, 09:38 AM
FYI got the FJO on Friday for the 9 July class.

Does anyone know how long itís taking to get jumpseat privileges? A friend is with the blues and I would really like to go see his show in Pensacola that weekend

Thanks!

robxjt27
06-09-2019, 10:15 AM
Usually by Friday of the first week.

767pilot
06-09-2019, 11:28 AM
FYI got the FJO on Friday for the 9 July class.

A friend is with the blues and I would really like to go see his show in Pensacola that weekend

Thanks!

at first I thought you meant he was depressed!

MrBobRoss
06-10-2019, 06:44 PM
[QUOTE=CCCXCI;2834267]FYI got the FJO on Friday for the 9 July class

Congratulations ccc! Thatís awesome news- when did you get the initial CJO?

CCCXCI
06-10-2019, 08:05 PM
at first I thought you meant he was depressed!

As to his mental state I canít comment! Iím guessing not though, I think it would hard to be depressed flying in the Blue Angels. Although the skin tight flight suit might get to you...

Thanks for the replies!

For those interested, my timeline...
Applied Septemberish 2017
Job fair October (I think) 2017
Initial phone call for hogan March 2018
Interview invite May 2018
Interview July 2018 ( was overseas)
Pool letter three days later
CJO March 2019
FJO one month from start date

I swam for a while but am drying off now, but overall my experience has been great. Very professional group of people and I am greatly looking forward to starting!

Madella0124
06-11-2019, 04:00 AM
My timeline is almost identical to CCCís. Still waiting on the FJO but after a call from HR with a PRIA question yesterday, everything seems on track for the July 9 class.

MrBobRoss
06-11-2019, 06:46 AM
Did yíall get a copy of your DOT driving record sent to your house? Mine said ďNo MatchesĒ for points on license but Iím not sure if that means I have no points or they couldnít find my name as a match in the system.

Madella0124
06-12-2019, 09:41 AM
I received my FJO. Needless to say, Iím very excited to get started.

MrBobRoss
06-12-2019, 11:44 AM
I received my FJO. Needless to say, Iím very excited to get started.

Me too. Today is a wonderful day!

MileHighClub
06-12-2019, 12:46 PM
So it's safe to say that FJOs are submitted about 4 weeks before class date?

jfingers
06-12-2019, 12:56 PM
So it's safe to say that FJOs are submitted about 4 weeks before class date?Sometimes. If the magic (unknown) process works. I never actually got an FJO, but I got bumped up a class with ~7 days notice.

Blue skies,
-only Jake

CL300
06-12-2019, 02:07 PM
Congratulations to all the upcoming noobs! Great to see all the new faces on property!

jetlaggy
07-04-2019, 03:26 AM
After this week displacement bid safe to say that if u come on ďheavyĒ day you will get 747 anc and if you come on ďlightĒ day you will not get 767 intl.

robxjt27
07-04-2019, 07:44 AM
Honestly, who cares? Itís the career lottery to be employed by UPS. There is only an 18 month seat lock so anyone not getting what they want immediately will soon be there.

UBA727
07-04-2019, 07:48 AM
Honestly, who cares? Itís the career lottery to be employed by UPS. There is only an 18 month seat lock so anyone not getting what they want immediately will soon be there.

Agree 1000%!! First 2 years went by lightning fast!!!!!

jetlaggy
07-04-2019, 11:14 AM
Honestly, who cares? Itís the career lottery to be employed by UPS. There is only an 18 month seat lock so anyone not getting what they want immediately will soon be there.

Just giving info to the new hires..plenty people prob care

BrownDoubles
07-04-2019, 11:43 AM
Just giving info to the new hires..plenty people prob care

It is nice to know the likelihood of platform and base when classing up. I think it's a safe bet that Monday classes will be assigned to the 74 and that Tuesday classes will be domestic with the potential of a few stragglers here and there. Hopefully we will see another system bid prior to December that creates more vacancies.

TillerThriller
07-04-2019, 05:58 PM
Excited to start for sure! Got a July 9th date. Think everyone will have a shot at SDF??

Madella0124
07-04-2019, 07:28 PM
Iím July 9 too. I want SDF but Iím planning on ONT/MIA. Thinking all the guys who went there in the past 6 months took their opportunity to bid out this week.

TillerThriller
07-04-2019, 08:09 PM
Iím July 9 too. I want SDF but Iím planning on ONT/MIA. Thinking all the guys who went there in the past 6 months took their opportunity to bid out this week.

Yeah I am planning on that as well. Was thinking about buying a cheap little airport car and taking it to SDF but figured I would wait til I find out where I would be based. Looking forward to starting.

G550Guy
07-04-2019, 10:23 PM
Was thinking about buying a cheap little airport car and taking it to SDF but figured I would wait til I find out where I would be based.


Good idea for sure. You will have your J/S passes in short order and can always bring a car back (depending on where you live I guess).

Congrats and welcome aboard... get to know your IPA mentors, theyíre here to make your first year go by smoothly and uneventfully.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MrBobRoss
07-05-2019, 08:59 AM
We are staying at the AirportCourtyard Marriott. I notice there isnít a kitchen and it doesnít show a microwave in the room, either. For anyone who has stayed there, what do people typically do for food and laundry? Is there a complimentary breakfast? Just trying to plan for the next 10 weeks...

TillerThriller
07-05-2019, 11:41 AM
We are staying at the AirportCourtyard Marriott. I notice there isnít a kitchen and it doesnít show a microwave in the room, either. For anyone who has stayed there, what do people typically do for food and laundry? Is there a complimentary breakfast? Just trying to plan for the next 10 weeks...

I was wondering the same thing. Was going to pack a little one of those George Foreman grills and some other stuff but not sure if that would be allowed. Any thoughts on that?

BrownDoubles
07-05-2019, 12:19 PM
I was wondering the same thing. Was going to pack a little one of those George Foreman grills and some other stuff but not sure if that would be allowed. Any thoughts on that?

An infrared convection oven is extremely versatile. I found it invaluable and a huge cost saver.

MileHighClub
07-05-2019, 01:37 PM
I'd highly recommend a portable induction cooktop. You can buy one at Wal-Mart for $65 and it includes a frying pan and sauce pot.

MrBobRoss
07-05-2019, 02:28 PM
Thanks for the ideas. Also, what about laundry? It didnít mention any on site washers and dryers. Is there a laundromat nearby? And also, what do people do for transportation to and from the training center- just try to find someone with a car and buy them unlimited beer?

tnkrdrvr
07-05-2019, 02:35 PM
Thanks for the ideas. Also, what about laundry? It didnít mention any on site washers and dryers. Is there a laundromat nearby? And also, what do people do for transportation- just try to find someone with a car and buy them unlimited beer?

Washers are on site and they were providing soap when I went through. Unlimited beer definitely works, unless neither you or your partner brought wheels.

Madella0124
07-05-2019, 03:47 PM
Ross, Iím bringing a car. I wasnít going to and then I heard about unlimited beer.

tnkrdrvr
07-05-2019, 04:50 PM
Ross, Iím bringing a car. I wasnít going to and then I heard about unlimited beer.

You will fit right in

MrBobRoss
07-06-2019, 09:09 AM
Iíll bring a banquet of Banquet

easyflying
07-06-2019, 12:35 PM
Yeah I am planning on that as well. Was thinking about buying a cheap little airport car and taking it to SDF but figured I would wait til I find out where I would be based. Looking forward to starting.

Tiller, Congrats on getting hired. If you or anyone in your class is interested in a Crashpad car, I'm trying to sell my car it's a 1997 BMW 528i close to 100k miles.
$800 obo.
I rarely go to SDF so no need for a car. I have my friends that go through training use it or that are in SDF for an overnight so car does not sit. PM me if interested.

Tingoose5
07-08-2019, 01:10 PM
Drop numbers for today?

jetlaggy
07-10-2019, 02:31 AM
Drop numbers for today?

Hmmmmm. bueller

BoilerUP
07-10-2019, 03:16 AM
9 747
8 757
5 Bus

Ray Kinsella
07-10-2019, 10:23 AM
Of the 8 757/767, 5 are domestic and SDF based, 1 is ďZĒ which means international and SDF based, and 3 are Ont based.

howardhughes8
07-10-2019, 12:08 PM
Big welcome to everyone!! This job is very good, but it is NOT PERFECT!! You come here with a good attitude, understand your employer, enjoy the job, the VAST majority of our crews are AWESOME, you will have a very good time here!!

767pilot
07-10-2019, 05:28 PM
Big welcome to everyone!! This job is very good, but it is NOT PERFECT!! You come here with a good attitude, understand your employer, enjoy the job, the VAST majority of our crews are AWESOME, you will have a very good time here!!

Woo hoo, sounds great, sign me up! Oh wait....

Seriously, when you realize where lines are drawn and how to handle expectations, what it is and what it isn't, it's a great gig.

CactusCrew
07-10-2019, 06:04 PM
Woo hoo, sounds great, sign me up! Oh wait....

Seriously, when you realize where lines are drawn and how to handle expectations, what it is and what it isn't, it's a great gig.

Expectation Zero ? :D

Expect Nothing, Never be disappointed ! :D

Its usually a smooth flight, but things can get occasionally turbulent.

Welcome, and enjoy the ride !

FrontSeat2
07-11-2019, 11:41 AM
welcome new hires and you will enjoy getting docked 3 hours pay because you commercialed into your trip 17 hours 44 minutes prior instead of 18 hours prior....and they dock you 9 months later.....

Rocket Bob
07-11-2019, 11:58 AM
welcome new hires and you will enjoy getting docked 3 hours pay because you commercialed into your trip 17 hours 44 minutes prior instead of 18 hours prior....and they dock you 9 months later.....

Contractual. Iím assuming you hold them to the contract as well, right? It is what it is

howardhughes8
07-11-2019, 12:02 PM
welcome new hires and you will enjoy getting docked 3 hours pay because you commercialed into your trip 17 hours 44 minutes prior instead of 18 hours prior....and they dock you 9 months later.....


Easy. See 767Pilot post above. Know your contract, know where the lines are, and this wonít happen to you. My point is take the time to understand your contract and the IPA is a great resource.

flyguy23
07-12-2019, 06:12 AM
welcome new hires and you will enjoy getting docked 3 hours pay because you commercialed into your trip 17 hours 44 minutes prior instead of 18 hours prior....and they dock you 9 months later.....

I'd have a little sympathy for a new guy finding this out the hard way. We all have frustrating things like this happen as we learn the ropes. Someone who has been here as long and is as extremely bitter as you, there's no excuse to not know the contract inside and out. If you didnt want to lose 3 hours, you should have gotten to work on time.

trackpilot
07-12-2019, 09:58 AM
If you didnt want to lose 3 hours, you should have gotten to work on time.

But why would something so stupid be in the contract???
Just like if you pick up open time and your line is worth less than guarantee you donít get paid for any portion until you hit 75 hours. Who the hell would agree to that! I donít know of any other airlines that work that way.

FTv3
07-12-2019, 12:53 PM
But why would something so stupid be in the contract???
Just like if you pick up open time and your line is worth less than guarantee you donít get paid for any portion until you hit 75 hours. Who the hell would agree to that! I donít know of any other airlines that work that way.

1. This is NOT an airline
2. 96% of us agreed to that.
3. Stupid? No. Itís a long story and has a very real purpose.
4. Then maybe donít pick up open time...

BoilerUP
07-12-2019, 01:14 PM
CP has posted the reasoning around the 3-hour penalty on B&G multiple times...

FrontSeat2
07-12-2019, 05:33 PM
there's no excuse to not know the contract inside and out.

yes there is....it is written by lawyers for lawyers....it is the most confusing document we have to reference and that is including all the IT bs that we have to sift through everyday....I rather try to figure out my CQ on UPS U before referencing the contract.

There are guys here retiring after 30 plus years that can't tell you how something should be even after reading it.

At most legacy brand X's the contract is written clearer.

Ask 4 pilots on the 400 when they may time out before departure and you will no doubt receive 4 different answers none of which will match the crew scheduling time.

SaltyDog
07-12-2019, 05:42 PM
welcome new hires and you will enjoy getting docked 3 hours pay because you commercialed into your trip 17 hours 44 minutes prior instead of 18 hours prior....and they dock you 9 months later.....

What also is important to note: You started earning pay earlier but stayed home later so UPS takes some earned money back. Pilots complained about Fatigue and rest going days to nights, so UPS agreed to start trips and earnings earlier to get rested in sequence for the upcoming trip. You start earning money when scheduled. If you choose to stay home longer and not take advantage of the rest conversion opportunity, UPS takes some of the money back as you delayed your trip start time in the commercial dead head commute. Had the union not allowed the company to take back the earned income for not showing on the schedule that the union asked (pilots complaints) for proper rest mitigation, they would have scheduled us as previous contracts and saved even more money and all similar scheduled pilots would have all earned less money if allowed to be scheduled as UPS desires. (Min rest before trip, same day as trip start thus less earned income anyway).
Note as FrontSeat2 states, this is only on paid commercial dead heads. Drive a car, etc and no pay hit. And the 9 months later out of blue is irritating.


But why would something so stupid be in the contract???
Just like if you pick up open time and your line is worth less than guarantee you donít get paid for any portion until you hit 75 hours. Who the hell would agree to that! I donít know of any other airlines that work that way.
See above. UPS really wants all pilots to deviate and show with min rest for a few key reasons:
1. They previously had to pay less to all pilots as scheduled duty time was less on a Monday morning deadhead than a Sunday "get acclimated' deadhead. (previous contracts) Reality: previous contracts never would have earned the 3+ hours anyway.
2. The time savings by not having to coordinate rest circadian traveling a day prior allowed one or two more "stuffer" turns in the 28 day cycle. UPS misses those days. Eliminated some of the commuters nightmare. Often not mentioned in the details.
3. In negotiations, the union talks fatigue mitigation, UPS points with accurate data to the folks that choose to deviate in close (as used to be the case in previous contracts) More productive for any airline to have pilots scheduled with less rest time.
Stupid? Pilots asked for both, achieved contractually, now a pilot can choose. Before, we all earned less on that pairing anyway, and company was able to schedule more flying.
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UPS pays 75 credit hours. May only be scheduled for 70 etc. Thus, if able to hold a line with less actual work, your effective hourly rate just went up. If in a position where you won a higher effective hourly rate but want more income at the end of the 28 days, contractually UPS puts you back to earning all your pay at the contract rate. The flip side is that we could certainly change to a lower guarantee like all the other airlines. Say 70 hours instead of the current 75. Then that would make us the same as all the other airlines and then almost all open time picked up would be paid like all other airlines. Many prefer higher guarantee and often a higher effective rate. Again, pilot choice is better.

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To the new hires. A tough job, great people to fly with, we squabble as a family will. You will have a whole career to complain as is our right and duty. Welcome Aboard!

flyguy23
07-12-2019, 09:57 PM
yes there is....it is written by lawyers for lawyers....it is the most confusing document we have to reference and that is including all the IT bs that we have to sift through everyday....I rather try to figure out my CQ on UPS U before referencing the contract.

There are guys here retiring after 30 plus years that can't tell you how something should be even after reading it.

At most legacy brand X's the contract is written clearer.

Ask 4 pilots on the 400 when they may time out before departure and you will no doubt receive 4 different answers none of which will match the crew scheduling time.

There are confusing parts of the contract as you referenced above, however the part you were whining about is quite clear. I singled you out as someone who should know every word of the contract because you're so incredibly bitter, the company has to be screwing you on a daily basis. At what point do you start defending yourself with a contract that does protect you in many ways?

Also, that grass is greener stuff is a weak, tired, and old argument. Every airline has its drama and problems. I can't tell you how many I pilots I know at xyz legacy carrier that wouldn't trade their problems for ours in a heartbeat. It's all perspective as far as which is best. You chose poorly is what it all comes down to, although I have a suspicion you'd be the same way at any carrier you ended up at.

howardhughes8
07-13-2019, 06:52 AM
I read the contract, if I do not understand the intent, I email the IPA and receive an answer promptly. The basic day to day stuff everyone should know stone cold. While the legal verbiage might be difficult to understand, the IPA is a great asset to use. For example, Article 13, arguably the one that impacts our daily life the most, the IPA has a generic email for questions. If not time sensitive, I shoot them an email and within 24 hours receive an answer. Easy.

Airbum
07-13-2019, 10:00 AM
But why would something so stupid be in the contract???
Just like if you pick up open time and your line is worth less than guarantee you donít get paid for any portion until you hit 75 hours. Who the hell would agree to that! I donít know of any other airlines that work that way.

Well, You agreed to that track. When you hired on. I will grant that you may not have appreciated all the nuisance of working for a trucking company. Itís so much better now it would boggle your mind. I think you will find a great explanation from Salty
on the reason we have this in the contract.

You will get your chance to help change things soon as we will be in negotiations . I also have things I think would be improvements. Letís stick together