Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




blackbox348
06-07-2019, 07:21 PM
The highest performing, the lowest paid wholly owned, and the lowest paid in the industry. Going for GreAAt. You heard it here first.


Voski
06-07-2019, 08:19 PM
The highest performing, the lowest paid wholly owned, and the lowest paid in the industry. Going for GreAAt. You heard it here first.

New hires will flow to AA in 5.5 years, recruiting propaganda said so. That offsets the compensation discrepancies. :rolleyes:

rld1k
06-07-2019, 08:30 PM
How did we come up with 5.5 years you may ask? Well email us at envoypilotrecruiting and we'll be happy to discuss it with you! We can't post it here because reasons


UnprotectdPilot
06-08-2019, 09:57 AM
Hey ENY MEC,

Since you're so set on "doing it right," how about pushing for the following:

At 6 years on property, ENY captain pay mirrors 737/320 FO rates AA. It'll give the company a ton of incentive to flow us at that projected 5.5 year flow they love to sell new hires on. :rolleyes: This scenario is about as likely as us getting any raise at this point, so might as well keep playing games.

iN uNiTy

BIueSideUp
06-08-2019, 10:05 AM
Hey ENY MEC,

Since you're so set on "doing it right," how about pushing for the following:

At 6 years on property, ENY captain pay mirrors 737/320 FO rates AA. It'll give the company a ton of incentive to flow us at that projected 5.5 year flow they love to sell new hires on. :rolleyes: This scenario is about as likely as us getting any raise at this point, so might as well keep playing games.

iN uNiTy

I nearly spit my beer

UnprotectdPilot
06-08-2019, 10:23 AM
https://i.imgur.com/zW0uvTd.jpg

ClearRight0528
06-10-2019, 05:15 AM
The highest performing, the lowest paid wholly owned, and the lowest paid in the industry. Going for GreAAt. You heard it here first.

What wait APC profile says "highest paid regional"?!

HalyardJammer
06-10-2019, 07:48 AM
What wait APC profile says "highest paid regional"?!

That's old.

buddies8
06-10-2019, 08:54 AM
What wait APC profile says "highest paid regional"?!

In 1995 eagle pay was average then 911 we went to 13% below average since then everyone pulls ahead of us.
This place was never highest paid.

HalyardJammer
06-10-2019, 02:00 PM
In 1995 eagle pay was average then 911 we went to 13% below average since then everyone pulls ahead of us.
This place was never highest paid.

At best, we matched endeavor in 17.

martyByrde
06-13-2019, 11:58 PM
It’s probably best to keep this at the top. We want it to be first thing lurkers see

NoValueAviator
06-14-2019, 03:04 AM
Hey, as long as you live with mom and dad or have a trust fund and like working for people who harbor a lot of contempt for you, Envoy is still a great choice.

TalkTurkey
06-14-2019, 10:09 AM
That’s the price y’all pay for under-the-wing time.

dvtpilot
06-14-2019, 05:30 PM
FUPM

...Filler

UnprotectdPilot
06-14-2019, 05:41 PM
#fupm
#mega

MEGAFUPM
06-14-2019, 05:50 PM
Did someone call me

dvtpilot
06-14-2019, 07:17 PM
Did someone call me

Well done.

Effin A right we did. Loud and proud.

LowvalueFO
06-14-2019, 09:23 PM
... #fupm ...

crosscheck95
06-14-2019, 10:10 PM
Fupm
fupm
fupm
fupm
fupm

blackbox348
06-14-2019, 11:13 PM
#f
#u
#p
#m

BIueSideUp
06-15-2019, 03:53 PM
FUPM Bump...

UnprotectdPilot
06-15-2019, 04:29 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/1rNWZu4QQqCUaq434T/giphy.gif

pitchattitude
06-15-2019, 06:01 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/1rNWZu4QQqCUaq434T/giphy.gif
I love it!!!

martyByrde
06-15-2019, 10:16 PM
Picketing when????

rld1k
06-15-2019, 11:21 PM
On the plus side we got a new recruiting vid from swag martyn®

NoValueAviator
06-15-2019, 11:30 PM
On the plus side we got a new recruiting vid from swag martyn®

I miss the old hate thread not because it was classy or tasteful obviously but let’s be real it was justified. Anything that any of us do that helps sell the job here to sucker CFIs takes food off everybody’s plates.

Weekendwarrior2
06-15-2019, 11:30 PM
Safety is our number on priority: This is great for new hires knowing we operate one of the safest airlines out there..what are some tips you guys have for everyone else out there to ensure safety is always at the top of our list?

blackbox348
06-15-2019, 11:41 PM
Safety is our number on priority: This is great for new hires knowing we operate one of the safest airlines out there..what are some tips you guys have for everyone else out there to ensure safety is always at the top of our list?

I taxi on two engines, leave the logo light off, and make sure that Mx comes out for any mechanical discrepancy in interest of passenger safety.

Weekendwarrior2
06-15-2019, 11:49 PM
Safe call. Anything that seems trivial could be something much more serious. We aren’t mechanics for the airline, and getting it checked out is the safest course of action. I’d hope anyone would do the same especially when my family non revs on these flights.

fatman
06-15-2019, 11:49 PM
C’mon bro. We all know how to play the game. The idea is to not post the rules.

Cyio
06-16-2019, 04:32 AM
C’mon bro. We all know how to play the game. The idea is to not post the rules.

This. Safety is our number one tenet here at Envoy. Look at each part of our operation and ensure it is being done in the safest way possible.

MochaSwirl
06-16-2019, 08:10 AM
On the plus side we got a new recruiting vid from swag martyn®

Can’t wait to see him on the jetbridge.
Ohhhhhh I can’t wait.

KCaviator
06-16-2019, 08:34 AM
But floooowwwwwwww

Ijustlikeflying
06-16-2019, 08:45 AM
Lots of technically terms and stuff is being thrown around on here. In simple terms here is a short description of what went on the past few months / weeks leading up to yesterday’s union email for people observing from the outside.

1) In May after PSA announced their new pay rates our union went to work negotiating with the company for a similar or better raise.

2) initially the company wanted a laundry list of concessions (good things we have in our contract that they want us to give up) for a mediocre pay increase

3) things went back and forth but not much progress was made.

4) Piedmont announces their raises, and it puts more pressure on our company to make a deal with our union.

5) this week (the week of june 10) the union makes progress and reaches a deal with the company for some of the highlights listed below:

A) pay raises slightly larger than PSA’s with retroactive pay back to May 15
B) Pay our of sick balance upon flow to AA or retirement (currently it goes in the garbage if you flow or retire)
C) improved reserve rules including an increase in days off and more predictability
D) lower pilot healthcare costs
E) Several Letters of Intent and agreements including Grievance Settlements which would provide a remedy for the affected pilots

6) Friday June 14 the new agreement is written and ready to be ratified and the company in the later hours of the day advises our union that AAG said the company negotiators “exceeded their authority,” and backed out of the long, hard worked on deal.


Conclusion:
A good deal was made. Last minute AAG said “JK throw it in the trash.”

mketch11
06-16-2019, 09:00 AM
Lots of technically terms and stuff is being thrown around on here. In simple terms here is a short description of what went on the past few months / weeks leading up to yesterday’s union email for people observing from the outside.

1) In May after PSA announced their new pay rates our union went to work negotiating with the company for a similar or better raise.

2) initially the company wanted a laundry list of concessions (good things we have in our contract that they want us to give up) for a mediocre pay increase

3) things went back and forth but not much progress was made.

4) Piedmont announces their raises, and it puts more pressure on our company to make a deal with our union.

5) this week (the week of june 10) the union makes progress and reaches a deal with the company for some of the highlights listed below:

A) pay raises slightly larger than PSA’s with retroactive pay back to May 15
B) Pay our of sick balance upon flow to AA or retirement (currently it goes in the garbage if you flow or retire)
C) improved reserve rules including an increase in days off and more predictability
D) lower pilot healthcare costs
E) Several Letters of Intent and agreements including Grievance Settlements which would provide a remedy for the affected pilots

6) Friday June 14 the new agreement is written and ready to be ratified and the company in the later hours of the day advises our union that AAG said the company negotiators “exceeded their authority,” and backed out of the long, hard worked on deal.


Conclusion:
A good deal was made. Last minute AAG said “JK throw it in the trash.”

I would make some slight changes in that the pay increases were not “slightly higher” than PSAs. They were of equal value to the pilot group regardless of the hard numbers. Outsiders looking in will most likely not understand the distinction nor the differences in contracts. Lastly, as I wasn’t there, we weren’t made aware which other improvements outside of pay were traded for “conceding” grievances. We have been sold this bill of goods in the past so I would get all the details first before portraying grievance settlements as straight improvements. I can give examples from the last loa if need be but I’d sound like a broken record so I won’t.

blackbox348
06-16-2019, 09:02 AM
lots of technically terms and stuff is being thrown around on here. In simple terms here is a short description of what went on the past few months / weeks leading up to yesterday’s union email for people observing from the outside.

1) in may after psa announced their new pay rates our union went to work negotiating with the company for a similar or better raise.

2) initially the company wanted a laundry list of concessions (good things we have in our contract that they want us to give up) for a mediocre pay increase

3) things went back and forth but not much progress was made.

4) piedmont announces their raises, and it puts more pressure on our company to make a deal with our union.

5) this week (the week of june 10) the union makes progress and reaches a deal with the company for some of the highlights listed below:

A) pay raises slightly larger than psa’s with retroactive pay back to may 15
b) pay our of sick balance upon flow to aa or retirement (currently it goes in the garbage if you flow or retire)
c) improved reserve rules including an increase in days off and more predictability
d) lower pilot healthcare costs
e) several letters of intent and agreements including grievance settlements which would provide a remedy for the affected pilots

6) friday june 14 the new agreement is written and ready to be ratified and the company in the later hours of the day advises our union that aag said the company negotiators “exceeded their authority,” and backed out of the long, hard worked on deal.


Conclusion:
A good deal was made. Last minute aag said “jk throw it in the trash.”

burn it to the ground

buddies8
06-16-2019, 09:50 AM
Info to maint is a fools entry.
Flt crew placard takes mx union jobs.

MEGAFUPM
06-23-2019, 08:33 AM
This week will be our 6th paycheck since the PSA raise.

Voski
06-23-2019, 08:37 AM
This week will be our 6th paycheck since the PSA raise.

Does the union have any negotiating meetings with the company on the books coming up?

MD-11Loader
06-23-2019, 09:19 AM
Does the union have any negotiating meetings with the company on the books coming up?

There’s an MEC meeting next week. That would be the perfect opportunity to do so, but I doubt it will happen. Pedro and his team were basically put in their place last week. They now must realize that they are just figureheads and have no real clout (something we have all known). I would venture to guess that it will be awhile. Dig in boys and girls. Your non-guaranteed raises are a ways away.

dk104444
06-23-2019, 09:48 AM
Envoy Management is talking with AAG every week on what to do. Why can't our MEC negotiate directly with AAG Management instead. My understanding of Envoy Management is basically AAG secretaries

havick206
06-23-2019, 10:16 AM
Envoy Management is talking with AAG every week on what to do. Why can't our MEC negotiate directly with AAG Management instead. My understanding of Envoy Management is basically AAG secretaries

ENY management made an agreement. Make them stick to it. There’s no need to negotiate anything.

martyByrde
06-23-2019, 02:27 PM
Any truth to the rumor of an FO exodus to L3 for better pay?

pitchattitude
06-23-2019, 02:51 PM
Any truth to the rumor of an FO exodus to L3 for better pay?
If you mean the government contractor, doubtful. Maybe some will punch in the short term. The first year at a regional always has a fairly high attrition rate.

Those jobs do provide some incredible opportunities. But a pathway to a major is not one of them. Incredible pay. Can’t be touched by anything short of a major captain, several years in and great time off.

But, very few people can do that kind of thing for more than a few years at a time if that. People will always drift in and out of those jobs.

If you want to fly for a major, you need to fly 121. If you really need the money, contacting is a good way, but if you don’t have the type of time the majors are looking for, you will be back to a regional to get it. Maybe by then Envoy will have better pay, but you still have to look at the long term. What will get you to a major and that top tier pay soonest.

smtx123
06-23-2019, 04:59 PM
Any truth to the rumor of an FO exodus to L3 for better pay?

I know of a few guys looking into it, one was in middle of interview process.

LowvalueFO
06-23-2019, 07:41 PM
I know of a few guys looking into it, one was in middle of interview process.

It's all the RTP guys, L3 will pay off their current contract.

havick206
06-23-2019, 07:58 PM
It's all the RTP guys, L3 will pay off their current contract.

A lot of the RTP guys are now bailing for Flexjet, JetBlue, Spirit and some getting into legacy OTS. Recently upgraded or about to upgrade types.

pitchattitude
06-23-2019, 08:13 PM
It's all the RTP guys, L3 will pay off their current contract.

Yeah. They have the clearance and now the ratings. Even without the payoff, the money is good enough. But like I said, it’s tough to do for more than a few years, and if you want to fly 121, you will be back to a regional.

havick206
06-23-2019, 08:27 PM
Yeah. They have the clearance and now the ratings. Even without the payoff, the money is good enough. But like I said, it’s tough to do for more than a few years, and if you want to fly 121, you will be back to a regional.

A lot of them don’t care for 121. Look at the age of a lot of the RTP’s

pitchattitude
06-23-2019, 09:08 PM
A lot of them don’t care for 121. Look at the age of a lot of the RTP’s

Let’s face it, 121 isn’t for everyone and Envoy in particular can put a pretty bad taste in your mouth.

There are a lot of reasons for the high attrition rate the first year.

havick206
06-23-2019, 09:17 PM
Let’s face it, 121 isn’t for everyone and Envoy in particular can put a pretty bad taste in your mouth.

There are a lot of reasons for the high attrition rate the first year.

They’re not 1st year though. They’re the group that we’re stuck on reserve 12 months, then did another 12+ months and have upgraded or upgrading now. Not getting a pay deal done pushed a lot over the fence.

pitchattitude
06-23-2019, 09:31 PM
They’re not 1st year though. They’re the group that we’re stuck on reserve 12 months, then did another 12+ months and have upgraded or upgrading now. Not getting a pay deal done pushed a lot over the fence.
If that’s the case, nothing or minimal to pay back.

If there is an increase in senior FO/ junior CA, then maybe the company will finally start REacting, since that seems to be the only way anything happens.

Hopefully it is Captains that have gone through two upgrades and wasted more of the company’s money and training slots.

martyByrde
06-26-2019, 08:25 AM
Bump
......

Weekendwarrior2
06-26-2019, 08:30 AM
Bump

......



Another week will go by with nothing happening over the weekend. Rinse and repeat for the foreseeable future unfortunately.

MEGAFUPM
06-26-2019, 01:03 PM
Just a reminder it's been 20 days since the Piedmont pay raise. 42 with back pay included. 80/86 for PSA.

martyByrde
06-26-2019, 01:12 PM
Just a reminder it's been 20 days since the Piedmont pay raise. 42 with back pay included. 80/86 for PSA.

And not a word from the union or company

uavking
06-26-2019, 01:17 PM
Just a reminder it's been 20 days since the Piedmont pay raise. 42 with back pay included. 80/86 for PSA.

Company doesn’t care so long as they get enough critical coverage picked up and bodies keep showing up for class.

dera
06-26-2019, 04:59 PM
And not a word from the union or company

Not a word? Apart from every rep being under one roof yesterday answering questions?

Houpilot2001
06-26-2019, 06:29 PM
Not a word? Apart from every rep being under one roof yesterday answering questions?

So, for all of us who live out of town, or were working....we want to know. It's not that complicated.

CafeConLeche
06-26-2019, 06:40 PM
I wonder if Swane Martin will make a video about how Envoy and AA management don't think his pilot group at Envoy are worth as much as his fellow wholly owned American Eagle pilots.
I hope you new hires realize how much you're valued. Have some self worth and fight for what's right. Single engine taxies and waiting to turn the APU shouldn't be a thing over at Envoy. Picking up OT like Swane Martin made a video about on youtube should not be happening. Doing favors for Envoy needs to stop.
Management takes advantage of the fact that we as pilots truly love aviation. This doesn't mean we should sit back and take it. Eagle pilots make American Airlines great. It's not the other way around just to be clear.

dera
06-26-2019, 06:46 PM
I wonder if Swane Martin will make a video about how Envoy and AA management don't think his pilot group at Envoy are worth as much as his fellow wholly owned American Eagle pilots.
I hope you new hires realize how much you're valued. Have some self worth and fight for what's right. Single engine taxies and waiting to turn the APU shouldn't be a thing over at Envoy. Picking up OT like Swane Martin made a video about on youtube should not be happening. Doing favors for Envoy needs to stop.
Management takes advantage of the fact that we as pilots truly love aviation. This doesn't mean we should sit back and take it. Eagle pilots make American Airlines great. It's not the other way around just to be clear.

Man you are so lost, holy sh*t.

Picking up OT is the best thing you can do. You think it's doing Envoy favors? Hell no. With the reserve coverage we have, you really think Envoy is happy to pay 150-200% over guarantee, when they could just give it to a reserve guy who wouldn't break guarantee anyway and would fly for free.
Pick up that OT.

CafeConLeche
06-26-2019, 06:50 PM
Man you are so lost, holy sh*t.

Picking up OT is the best thing you can do. You think it's doing Envoy favors? Hell no. With the reserve coverage we have, you really think Envoy is happy to pay 150-200% over guarantee, when they could just give it to a reserve guy who wouldn't break guarantee anyway and would fly for free.
Pick up that OT.

You obviously must be some new FO. Canceling flights costs more. No wonder they are jerking you guys around.

Houpilot2001
06-26-2019, 06:53 PM
You obviously must be some new FO. Canceling flights costs more. No wonder they are jerking you guys around.

Exactly, we zero out daily. Why pick up ot?

dera
06-26-2019, 06:54 PM
You obviously must be some new FO. Canceling flights costs more. No wonder they are jerking you guys around.

I'll rephrase a bit:

For FOs that's the best thing to do. They don't cancel flights for not having FO's, they have plenty. Swayne Martin is an FO, I don't think he aimed his video to captains.

I just picked up a nice Toronto turn off OT. I get paid almost 10 hours for it - they have 20+ reserves. You think I did the company a favor?

Grab that OT, make them pay. For CA's, YMMV.

Houpilot2001
06-26-2019, 07:01 PM
I'll rephrase a bit:

For FOs that's the best thing to do. They don't cancel flights for not having FO's, they have plenty. Swayne Martin is an FO, I don't think he aimed his video to captains.

Grab that OT, make them pay.

Swayne only aims for one thing....what gets him paid and more followers. Picking up OT (FO or CA) says sure, I'll come in on my day off cause you dont pay me enough, but I need this(because you dont pay me enough).

FYI, in this market, you dont need this. If they need staffing that bad, they need to up staffing (FUPM). Our attrition group is greater than our incoming group. Paying someone extra is a whole lot cheaper than cancellations. They will gladly pay for your day off.

CafeConLeche
06-26-2019, 07:05 PM
I'll rephrase a bit:

For FOs that's the best thing to do. They don't cancel flights for not having FO's, they have plenty. Swayne Martin is an FO, I don't think he aimed his video to captains.

Grab that OT, make them pay.

Are you kidding me? PICKING OT HURTS YOUR PILOT GROUP.

What don't you understand. Paying out 200% means nothing. And yes if pilots didn't pick up OT or work on their days off it would hurt the company more than paying 200%. You are truly lost and you obviously weren't around the last time the Envoy pilot group was Fuqed in the ass. Swayne Martin is shooting himself in the foot and doesn't even realize it. I'd go further to say Swayne Martin and pilots like him are out for themselves. You're not gonna be an FO forever. And if they have plenty of FO's why are they offering OT? You truly are lost and need help understanding your part as a pilot in group of pilots.

I really hope that flow works out for you because it's really gonna suck sitting at Envoy getting paid less than your wholly owned brother and sisters.

dera
06-26-2019, 07:07 PM
Swayne only aims for one thing....what gets him paid and more followers. Picking up OT (FO or CA) says sure, I'll come in on my day off cause you dont pay me enough, but I need this(because you dont pay me enough).

FYI, in this market, you dont need this. If they need staffing that bad, they need to up staffing (FUPM). Our attrition group is greater than our incoming group. Paying someone extra is a whole lot cheaper than cancellations. They will gladly pay for your day off.

Are you drunk? You want them to UP staffing? Holy Christ...

"Our attrition group is greater than our incoming group"? Is that why we have grown by 100 pilots in the past 6 months?

For FO's, picking up OT is a great way to get paid more. The flights would get covered no problem, we are overstaffed on the FO side.
They never run out of FO's. So pick up OT and make them pay more for it. And OT doesn't have to be on your day off. Most of my OT is tagged at the beginning or end of a trip.

CafeConLeche
06-26-2019, 07:08 PM
Swayne only aims for one thing....what gets him paid and more followers. Picking up OT (FO or CA) says sure, I'll come in on my day off cause you dont pay me enough, but I need this(because you dont pay me enough).

FYI, in this market, you dont need this. If they need staffing that bad, they need to up staffing (FUPM). Our attrition group is greater than our incoming group. Paying someone extra is a whole lot cheaper than cancellations. They will gladly pay for your day off.


I feel real sorry for the senior Envoy/Eagle guys who have to deal with FOs and or pilots like this Dera guy. You guys mad such head wind just to take 2 steps back with pilots like him.

dera
06-26-2019, 07:09 PM
Are you kidding me? PICKING OT HURTS YOUR PILOT GROUP.

What don't you understand. Paying out 200% means nothing. And yes if pilots didn't pick up OT or work on their days off it would hurt the company more than paying 200%. You are truly lost and you obviously weren't around the last time the Envoy pilot group was Fuqed in the ass. Swayne Martin is shooting himself in the foot and doesn't even realize it. I'd go further to say Swayne Martin and pilots like him are out for themselves. You're not gonna be an FO forever. And if they have plenty of FO's why are they offering OT? You truly are lost and need help understanding your part as a pilot in group of pilots.

I really hope that flow works out for you because it's really gonna suck sitting at Envoy getting paid less than your wholly owned brother and sisters.

Sorry, but your post doesn't make any sense.

I don't think you understand how open time works, and what it means.

You're saying that when I pick up a trip at 200% that would otherwise be assigned to a reserve next day for 0%, it's better for the company? That really does not compute.
Or get that commuter hotel out of base when you pick up OT out of domicile.
Or even better, during 200%, you can have the company pay for a hotel room in domicile. That surely helps the company too. I guess they collect hotel points for reservations?

Your logic is so flawed I can't even begin to argue with you.

CafeConLeche
06-26-2019, 07:12 PM
Sorry, but your post doesn't make any sense.

I don't think you understand how open time works, and what it means.

You're saying that when I pick up a trip at 200% that would otherwise be assigned to a reserve next day for 0%, it's better for the company? That really does not compute.

Your logic is so flawed I can't even begin to argue with you.

Have fun being the Lowest paid wholly owned Eagle pilot group. And like I said I really hope that flow works out.

dera
06-26-2019, 07:14 PM
Have fun being the Lowest paid wholly owned Eagle pilot group. And like I said I really hope that flow works out.

And like I said, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Fact is: For FO's, picking up OT is the best thing you can do. Too bad you don't understand how open time works at this company, so your comments are just laughable.

SomePilotDude
06-26-2019, 07:20 PM
Have fun being the Lowest paid wholly owned Eagle pilot group. And like I said I really hope that flow works out.

We have already established he’s a recruiting puke. He’s selling OT on all the threads to the new FO’s. “Oh it’s 200%!!! Extra hotels!!! Free money for nothing!!!” How many FO seats have critical OT for next month? Don’t kid yourself. You’re a piece of recruiting work and we all know it. Go back to selling “leading industry pay” and the shiny 175. Or better yet, disappear like you did the last time you sold out your coworkers. FUPM!

dera
06-26-2019, 07:25 PM
We have already established he’s a recruiting puke. He’s selling OT on all the threads to the new FO’s. “Oh it’s 200%!!! Extra hotels!!! Free money for nothing!!!” How many FO seats have critical OT for next month? Don’t kid yourself. You’re a piece of recruiting work and we all know it. Go back to selling “leading industry pay” and the shiny 175. Or better yet, disappear like you did the last time you sold out your coworkers. FUPM!

"We"? You joined what, a day ago. And have all of 2 posts? "We?"

Another troll with nothing to contribute. We my ass.

Yes or no:
Is it better for the company that you don't pick up that OT turn that opens at 6pm for next day and get paid 150% over your guarantee, than that the company will call a RAP at 4AM and assign that trip to him, that he gets to fly for free?

150% vs 0%? Sorry, but you're clearly a company troll if you think the 0% is better for the pilot group.
We are overstaffed on the FO side. Might as well get paid for flights.

Houpilot2001
06-26-2019, 07:30 PM
"We"? You joined what, a day ago. And have all of 2 posts? "We?"

Another troll with nothing to contribute. We my ass.

Yes or no:
Is it better for the company that you don't pick up that OT turn that opens at 6pm for next day and get paid 150% over your guarantee, than that the company will call a RAP at 4AM and assign that trip to him, that he gets to fly for free?

150% vs 0%? Sorry, but you're clearly a company troll if you think the 0% is better for the pilot group.
We are overstaffed on the FO side. Might as well get paid for flights.

Yes, let them burn their reserves. And leave all the open time...open... and unstaffed...which hurts them alot more than you getting an extra 15 an hour over straight pay.

dera
06-26-2019, 07:33 PM
Yes, let them burn their reserves. And leave all the open time...open... and unstaffed...which hurts them alot more than you getting an extra 15 an hour over straight pay.

Burn their reserves? How little do you know about the FO reserve list? It _NEVER_ runs out. They've zero'd out a few days in the past 6 months, and they still had the standbys. The only days when they ended up having no FO reserves, the flights cancelled because no of no CA.

150% or 0%? Simple answer. Which one is better?

Houpilot2001
06-26-2019, 07:35 PM
Burn their reserves? How little do you know about the FO reserve list? It _NEVER_ runs out. They've zero'd out a few days in the past 6 months, and they still had the standbys. The only days when they ended up having no FO reserves, the flights cancelled because no of no CA.

150% or 0%? Simple answer. Which one is better?


So.....in hopes they dont have staffing on the CA side. Pick up OT just in case?

dera
06-26-2019, 07:38 PM
So.....in hopes they dont have staffing on the CA side. Pick up OT just in case?

You didn't answer. 150% or 0%. Simple question.

SomePilotDude
06-26-2019, 07:42 PM
You didn't answer. 150% or 0%. Simple question.

0%. Stop trying to sell a quick solution to the problem you dip****s created. Stop getting your tiny, little brain all wrapped around 0% or 150%.

dera
06-26-2019, 07:43 PM
0%. Stop trying to sell a quick solution to the problem you dip****s created. Stop getting your tiny, little brain all wrapped around 0% or 150%.

I see you are a company man. At least you're honest about it.

rld1k
06-26-2019, 07:56 PM
When dera comes up with ways to "really stick it to the company"

https://i.imgur.com/zI6paCV.jpg

Rangers12
06-26-2019, 08:03 PM
I really hope I never have to fly with Dera

BigZ
06-26-2019, 08:07 PM
You didn't answer. 150% or 0%. Simple question.

0%
Don't try to justify your choice by the greater good, dera.

Your choice is your choice, whatever.
But "they never run out of FOs" - bull****. Maybe currently in your seat.

dera
06-26-2019, 08:19 PM
0%
Don't try to justify your choice by the greater good, dera.

Your choice is your choice, whatever.
But "they never run out of FOs" - bull****. Maybe currently in your seat.

I'm not. I'm just saying picking up OT isn't doing company any favors. It costs company more. They don't cancel flights because they don't have FO's.

So the common complaint is that reserves never fly.
The other one is how we are overstaffed with excessive reserves.
Now you're saying they run out of reserves?

Not sure what is going on.

They've ran out of reserves once in my seat this year. How about yours?

TheFly
06-26-2019, 08:23 PM
How does your union address grievances like this?

SomePilotDude
06-26-2019, 08:26 PM
I see you are a company man. At least you're honest about it.

A company man would do exactly as you are. “Please pick up OT and help keep us going.” Drop the act and move on. You’re worthless on these forums and you’ve been called out numerous times.

dera
06-26-2019, 08:38 PM
A company man would do exactly as you are. “Please pick up OT and help keep us going.” Drop the act and move on. You’re worthless on these forums and you’ve been called out numerous times.

Envoy doesn't need help, those trips would go to reserves otherwise. We don't cancel flights because we don't have FO's.

I mean, think about how delusional you sound: You complain how Envoy is overstaffed. Then you complain how we have way too many reserve pilots. But then you say how no-one shouldn't pick up OT because they run out of reserves.

Schrödinger's Reserve Pilot? Cannot pick up OT because they don't have enough pilots on reserve, while being overstaffed and they have too many reserves?

Sorry, your comments don't make any sense.

BigZ
06-26-2019, 08:55 PM
I'm not. I'm just saying picking up OT isn't doing company any favors. It costs company more. They don't cancel flights because they don't have FO's.

So the common complaint is that reserves never fly.
The other one is how we are overstaffed with excessive reserves.
Now you're saying they run out of reserves?

Not sure what is going on.

They've ran out of reserves once in my seat this year. How about yours?
You are. It does. Than 125% yes, than another fo - no. They do.

Yeah, we’ve had months where they’d zero out on fo reserves 5-6 days a week. At least couple times a week is typical. And yet average flight time was still around 30 hrs per FO, around 50 for CA.

The company would love to trim down the % paid for the OT and take away certain types of OT pick up, but make no mistake, it is cheaper for the company to have the pilots fly on their days off than to have more pilots.
Case in point - look up the Spirit TRO from two years back.

PS Go look at the CRJ reserve list - zeroed out today, 3 avail for tomorrow so far with one turn sitting in the open

Inclined plane
06-26-2019, 09:45 PM
You didn't answer. 150% or 0%. Simple question.



Wouldn’t it actually be 150% or 100%?
The company did have to actually pay reserve FOs some money, so someone sitting in that right seat has actually been compensated (very poorly compared to other WO) but I wouldn’t say that the flight was operated with $0 cost incurred to filling the right seat.

Let them use the reserves. Even if they never zero out, the company may feel some pressure to bolster the FO side a bit more than what they had, and find that it’s now slightly more difficult to attract applicants (non-cadets/RTP) to the lowest paid WO where management clearly undervalues us.


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MEGAFUPM
06-26-2019, 09:55 PM
Zeroing out the OT list the second they pop up isn't hurting the company or sticking it to them. It's showing that, even though your companions at PSA and PDT are getting paid more, you're still willing to lower yourself to 8 days a month to fly for less than them. You're telling the company your worth less and you're fine with 8 days off. It also shows how people need to pick it up because they are being paid so little off their normal garuntee. At 150% or 200% OT will never be hurting the company. You are just showing a willingness to be a company man when in return the company walks over you and away from agreements in writing. I'm not gonna tell anyone to pickup or not to pickup OT, but don't pretend you're hurting envoy, you're doing them a favor.

Inclined plane
06-26-2019, 10:06 PM
Zeroing out the OT list the second they pop up isn't hurting the company or sticking it to them. It's showing that, even though your companions at PSA and PDT are getting paid more, you're still willing to lower yourself to 8 days a month to fly for less than them. You're telling the company your worth less and you're fine with 8 days off. It also shows how people need to pick it up because they are being paid so little off their normal garuntee. At 150% or 200% OT will never be hurting the company. You are just showing a willingness to be a company man when in return the company walks over you and away from agreements in writing. I'm not gonna tell anyone to pickup or not to pickup OT, but don't pretend you're hurting envoy, you're doing them a favor.



Agreed[emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

blackbox348
06-26-2019, 10:15 PM
So can someone give some of the questions and answers that happened at the MEC meeting?

dera
06-27-2019, 02:21 AM
Wouldn’t it actually be 150% or 100%?
The company did have to actually pay reserve FOs some money, so someone sitting in that right seat has actually been compensated (very poorly compared to other WO) but I wouldn’t say that the flight was operated with $0 cost incurred to filling the right seat.

Let them use the reserves. Even if they never zero out, the company may feel some pressure to bolster the FO side a bit more than what they had, and find that it’s now slightly more difficult to attract applicants (non-cadets/RTP) to the lowest paid WO where management clearly undervalues us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, it's 150% or 0%. You never break guarantee off reserve, they are paying you to sit at home most of the month. So when they assign a trip to a reserve, it doesn't cost them anything. That guy gets paid, makes no difference if he flies or not. If you pick up OT, they pay you 150% above your monthly guarantee.

I'm not staying picking up OT is "sticking it", I'm just saying it's not a favor to the company. It costs them more. And you can pick up OT on your days on, that's how most of my OT this month has been.

Are you seriously suggesting this company needs more reserves? The common opinion here is that we are way overstaffed and have excessive reserves. Which one is it?

NoValueAviator
06-27-2019, 03:09 AM
Be careful about how you talk with dera on here. It’s a good way to get reported if you say anything that can be construed as negative about him personally. Ask me how I know.

In my opinion, helping the company by picking up OT right now is kind of pathetic. Maybe critical coverage if you have an emergency. Company has tied pay to staffing.

Cyio
06-27-2019, 03:52 AM
Welcome back Dera, I see you are making yourself known again.

AA/Envoy give away what they pay you extra for OT in free booze each flight. Think about that. You are costing them nothing in terms of meaningful dollars. It’s a non issue for them so stop that argument.

This company has and will again canceled flights because they lacked FO’s, I’ve seen it. Please don’t throw out certainties that you can’t back up. Is it rare, yes, but it does happen.

Lastly, picking up OT is every pilots right and some guys need it to get by, which I think is the problem right. We shouldn’t have to depend on picking up OT just to get remotely close to what our peers get my hitting min guarantee.

Sasquatched
06-27-2019, 12:02 PM
I'm not. I'm just saying picking up OT isn't doing company any favors. It costs company more. They don't cancel flights because they don't have FO's.

So the common complaint is that reserves never fly.
The other one is how we are overstaffed with excessive reserves.
Now you're saying they run out of reserves?

Not sure what is going on.

They've ran out of reserves once in my seat this year. How about yours?

The FO list that I’m on zeros out almost daily.

dera
06-27-2019, 01:35 PM
The FO list that I’m on zeros out almost daily.

CRJ is an exception.
And remember, at 0, you still have standbys.
As a general rule, there are plenty of FOs at Envoy.

Weekendwarrior2
06-27-2019, 02:21 PM
Any updates on what was said at the MEC meeting?

UnprotectdPilot
06-27-2019, 04:36 PM
Any updates on what was said at the MEC meeting?

I second the question. :confused:

pitchattitude
06-27-2019, 04:52 PM
Not a word? Apart from every rep being under one roof yesterday answering questions?
Care to share what was said?

dera
06-27-2019, 06:43 PM
Care to share what was said?

Very long story short:

SP was much more optimistic about the situation than anyone here. He said it's a bit of a Mexican Standoff right now, but they are still talking.

He also said, that the company does recognize the need for change.

AAG wouldn't say (obviously they wouldn't, that would be a bad negotiating strategy) what the breaking point was. The deal included things like automatic confirmation of profferings for next day, 12 min days off for reserves and so on. They are working on it.

He also said (and I will get shXt for this but whatever) that the best thing you can do, is to act professional, do your job, and avoid negotiating in public. He said that one of the strongest arguments they have on that table is that we are the best performing AA regional, and that's why we deserve the best compensation.

He partly blamed Pedro for the situation - PSA and Piedmont have been telling AA that they have issues, Pedro has been saying "everything's a-okay, we are doing great".

Let's see how you guys spin this. None of these are my words or opinions.

pitchattitude
06-27-2019, 07:06 PM
Very long story short:

SP was much more optimistic about the situation than anyone here. He said it's a bit of a Mexican Standoff right now, but they are still talking.

He also said, that the company does recognize the need for change.

AAG wouldn't say (obviously they wouldn't, that would be a bad negotiating strategy) what the breaking point was. The deal included things like automatic confirmation of profferings for next day, 12 min days off for reserves and so on. They are working on it.

He also said (and I will get shXt for this but whatever) that the best thing you can do, is to act professional, do your job, and avoid negotiating in public. He said that one of the strongest arguments they have on that table is that we are the best performing AA regional, and that's why we deserve the best compensation.

He partly blamed Pedro for the situation - PSA and Piedmont have been telling AA that they have issues, Pedro has been saying "everything's a-okay, we are doing great".

Let's see how you guys spin this. None of these are my words or opinions.
Thanks for the info.

Cyio
06-28-2019, 02:45 AM
Very long story short:

SP was much more optimistic about the situation than anyone here. He said it's a bit of a Mexican Standoff right now, but they are still talking.

He also said, that the company does recognize the need for change.

AAG wouldn't say (obviously they wouldn't, that would be a bad negotiating strategy) what the breaking point was. The deal included things like automatic confirmation of profferings for next day, 12 min days off for reserves and so on. They are working on it.

He also said (and I will get shXt for this but whatever) that the best thing you can do, is to act professional, do your job, and avoid negotiating in public. He said that one of the strongest arguments they have on that table is that we are the best performing AA regional, and that's why we deserve the best compensation.

He partly blamed Pedro for the situation - PSA and Piedmont have been telling AA that they have issues, Pedro has been saying "everything's a-okay, we are doing great".

Let's see how you guys spin this. None of these are my words or opinions.

Don’t act like we spin your words just for the sake of doing it. So you were at these meetings?

martyByrde
06-28-2019, 09:54 AM
He said it's a bit of a Mexican Standoff right now, but they are still talking.

He also said, that the company does recognize the need for change.

He also said (and I will get shXt for this but whatever) that the best thing you can do, is to act professional, do your job, and avoid negotiating in public.

He partly blamed Pedro for the situation - PSA and Piedmont have been telling AA that they have issues, Pedro has been saying "everything's a-okay, we are doing great".

I’m actually beginning to wonder if the union doesn’t know WTF to do.

jonrayburn
06-28-2019, 10:35 AM
He also said (and I will get shXt for this but whatever) that the best thing you can do, is to act professional, do your job, and avoid negotiating in public. He said that one of the strongest arguments they have on that table is that we are the best performing AA regional, and that's why we deserve the best compensation.

Yet we're the only ones without a deal.... :confused::mad:

MD-11Loader
06-28-2019, 10:38 AM
Yet we're the only ones without a deal.... :confused::mad:

So you want the union to go running back to them and offer things to give up in order to get it done? The company needs this to get done more than we need it. They’re the ones who are going to see their staffing levels take a dive. It shouldn’t be up to ALPA to offer to give anything up that was agreed to. It’s not your fault or mine that Envoy screwed the pooch.

Cyio
06-28-2019, 10:44 AM
So you want the union to go running back to them and offer things to give up in order to get it done? The company needs this to get done more than we need it. They’re the ones who are going to see their staffing levels take a dive. It shouldn’t be up to ALPA to offer to give anything up that was agreed to. It’s not your fault or mine that Envoy screwed the pooch.
In fact, a very substantial group of pilots would be even more ****ed off if the union gave things up.

Squirrel27
06-28-2019, 10:44 AM
So you want the union to go running back to them and offer things to give up in order to get it done? The company needs this to get done more than we need it. They’re the ones who are going to see their staffing levels take a dive. It shouldn’t be up to ALPA to offer to give anything up that was agreed to. It’s not your fault or mine that Envoy screwed the pooch.

You're absolutely right; it's not your fault or mine that Envoy screwed the pooch. And yet, we are the ones that have to pay the price for it with basically the lowest pay in the industry and awful work rules.

jonrayburn
06-28-2019, 10:47 AM
The company needs this to get done more than we need it. They’re the ones who are going to see their staffing levels take a dive.
WRONG!!! Unless what DERA is saying is in fact false, and Pedro HASNT been saying "everything's a-okay, we are doing great".

martyByrde
06-28-2019, 11:36 AM
So you want the union to go running back to them and offer things to give up in order to get it done? The company needs this to get done more than we need it. They’re the ones who are going to see their staffing levels take a dive. It shouldn’t be up to ALPA to offer to give anything up that was agreed to. It’s not your fault or mine that Envoy screwed the pooch.
I hope you aren’t expecting the company/AAG to cave on the AIP because of staffing. What prevents the company from giving a 45k bonus to all new hires???

buddies8
06-28-2019, 12:38 PM
Definitely not the union.

uavking
06-28-2019, 01:10 PM
So you want the union to go running back to them and offer things to give up in order to get it done? The company needs this to get done more than we need it. They’re the ones who are going to see their staffing levels take a dive. It shouldn’t be up to ALPA to offer to give anything up that was agreed to. It’s not your fault or mine that Envoy screwed the pooch.

^^This

Concessions of any sort shouldn't be in anyone's vocabulary in this environment. Especially since management will doubly take advantage next time. Hold the line.

martyByrde
06-28-2019, 02:01 PM
Especially since management will doubly take advantage next time. Hold the line.
Management is already “taking advantage” of the lowest paid and best performing WO.

LowvalueFO
06-28-2019, 04:15 PM
I am going to say there is a 50/50 at fault here - the union went too far, should have just asked for no concessions and straight up pay increases only. That's what PSA and Piedmont got.

While it would have been nice, now we are getting delayed even further on the pay ...

HalyardJammer
06-28-2019, 04:22 PM
I am going to say there is a 50/50 at fault here - the union went too far, should have just asked for no concessions and straight up pay increases only. That's what PSA and Piedmont got.

While it would have been nice, now we are getting delayed even further on the pay ...

Don't worry, you'll get back pay. Then you can go and buy yourself a new jetski.

martyByrde
06-28-2019, 04:33 PM
I am going to say there is a 50/50 at fault here - the union went too far, should have just asked for no concessions and straight up pay increases only. That's what PSA and Piedmont got.

While it would have been nice, now we are getting delayed even further on the pay ...
Regardless of who is at fault, I believe the union doesn't know what to do. The answer to failed negotiations can’t be a do-nothing, business as usual, “cool down period.” And if the union is banking on low new-hire turnout to become their leverage, don’t forget what happened when the company needed DECs.

havick206
06-28-2019, 04:35 PM
I am going to say there is a 50/50 at fault here - the union went too far, should have just asked for no concessions and straight up pay increases only. That's what PSA and Piedmont got.

While it would have been nice, now we are getting delayed even further on the pay ...

So the union should just roll over because others took the first shiny toy pit in front of them?

Fact is they had a signed deal and the company reneged.

NoValueAviator
06-28-2019, 04:41 PM
We came too close to getting the goods to take concessions for the pay now. There’s blood in the rock, the NC found it.

EnyFlyr
06-28-2019, 04:46 PM
I am going to say there is a 50/50 at fault here - the union went too far, should have just asked for no concessions and straight up pay increases only. That's what PSA and Piedmont got.
...

There’s really A LOT more to it than just a “pay increase” let the union do their thing.

jonrayburn
06-28-2019, 05:04 PM
Fact is they had a signed deal and the company reneged.
So close, right? But close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades...

pitchattitude
06-28-2019, 05:11 PM
I am going to say there is a 50/50 at fault here - the union went too far, should have just asked for no concessions and straight up pay increases only. That's what PSA and Piedmont got.

While it would have been nice, now we are getting delayed even further on the pay ...
I thought there was more than just a pay increase involved for both PSA and PDT. Not major changes, but not “just a pay raise” either.

Cyio
06-28-2019, 06:04 PM
Regardless of who is at fault, I believe the union doesn't know what to do. The answer to failed negotiations can’t be a do-nothing, business as usual, “cool down period.” And if the union is banking on low new-hire turnout to become their leverage, don’t forget what happened when the company needed DECs.

You are completely wrong. Hell the union did great, the company screwed up. If we took just pay at this point it would be weak and anger many people.

highfarfast
06-28-2019, 06:19 PM
I am going to say there is a 50/50 at fault here - the union went too far, should have just asked for no concessions and straight up pay increases only. That's what PSA and Piedmont got.

While it would have been nice, now we are getting delayed even further on the pay ...

How do you figure that the UNION went too far? They achieved a signed agreement in principal.

MANAGEMENT is the one saying they, themselves, went too far.

AIP or nothing should be everyone's stance right now.

LowvalueFO
06-28-2019, 06:20 PM
You are completely wrong. Hell the union did great, the company screwed up. If we took just pay at this point it would be weak and anger many people.

You really don't get it, they got played like many times before ...

Meanwhile, the other 2 WO's get paid, while you get 0, nada, zilch.

Pedro saves millions on a monthly basis and looks good in the eyes of Daddy AA.

martyByrde
06-28-2019, 06:28 PM
You are completely wrong. Hell the union did great, the company screwed up. If we took just pay at this point it would be weak and anger many people.
Yeah, because apparently “Great is what we’re going for.” Not progress. 🤔

NoValueAviator
06-28-2019, 06:48 PM
Lot of newer accounts on here saying “pay raise now at any cost!” today.

highfarfast
06-28-2019, 06:50 PM
You really don't get it, they got played like many times before ...

Meanwhile, the other 2 WO's get paid, while you get 0, nada, zilch.

Pedro saves millions on a monthly basis and looks good in the eyes of Daddy AA.

Hold our ground for AIP, which includes backpay. It all works out.

Cyio
06-28-2019, 06:53 PM
You really don't get it, they got played like many times before ...

Meanwhile, the other 2 WO's get paid, while you get 0, nada, zilch.

Pedro saves millions on a monthly basis and looks good in the eyes of Daddy AA.
Yeah way to be think the small game. You new here? If we get back pay what does it matter?

MD-11Loader
06-28-2019, 07:04 PM
I am going to say there is a 50/50 at fault here - the union went too far, should have just asked for no concessions and straight up pay increases only. That's what PSA and Piedmont got.

While it would have been nice, now we are getting delayed even further on the pay ...

Our pay isn’t the same as PSA though. I assume you know that, correct? PSA is on a blended rare, we are on two scales for captains, which means over 60% of your captains make significantly less than the rest of them. The union found a way to mitigate that disparity which would have left the B scale pilots underpaid. I applaud them for that. I don’t just want a raise. I want a raise that puts my total compensation on par with or better than PSA. Anything else is unacceptable.

HalyardJammer
06-28-2019, 08:27 PM
Hold the line!

Demand the AIP!

MochaSwirl
06-29-2019, 12:09 AM
Hold our ground for AIP, which includes backpay. It all works out.


This right where. Nothing and I mean NOTHING less than this.

We should be on par with Endeavour honestly for all that we do.

chrisreedrules
06-29-2019, 05:10 AM
Our pay isn’t the same as PSA though. I assume you know that, correct? PSA is on a blended rare, we are on two scales for captains, which means over 60% of your captains make significantly less than the rest of them. The union found a way to mitigate that disparity which would have left the B scale pilots underpaid. I applaud them for that. I don’t just want a raise. I want a raise that puts my total compensation on par with or better than PSA. Anything else is unacceptable.

Ya’ll should listen to MD-11 Loader more.

blackbox348
06-29-2019, 09:35 AM
#WeWantTheAIP

BigZ
06-29-2019, 10:01 AM
#WeWantTheAIP

#WeWantTheAIP+2

Voski
06-29-2019, 10:13 AM
#WeWantTheAIP+2

#WeWantTheAIP+3

BigZ
06-29-2019, 10:20 AM
#WeWantTheAIP+3

I resemble that remark

Inclined plane
06-29-2019, 10:39 AM
#WeWantTheAIP+3



#WeWantTheAIP+5


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BigZ
06-29-2019, 10:42 AM
#WeWantTheAIP+5


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Let's just fast forward to #GroupII-1

buddies8
06-29-2019, 11:49 AM
Let's just fast forward to #GroupII-1

Yes but retro pay also to may 15 this years at least.

martyByrde
06-30-2019, 09:54 PM
Bump
👆...

Varsity
07-09-2019, 12:48 PM
LOWEST PAID and Firing pilots!! :mad::(

MEGAFUPM
07-09-2019, 05:24 PM
FOR THOSE STILL KEEPING TRACK

Monday will be:

1. Our 7th paycheck at significantly lower rates than PSA.

2. 103/105 days since the PSA raise announcement/back pay date.

3. 38/61 days since the Piedmont raise announcement/back pay date.

4. 30 days since Envoy backed out of the AIP.

5. The company will have saved (very conservatively) over $9 million by this time.

(Average $13/hr raise) x (40 hours credit average per pay period) x (7 pay periods) x (2500 pilots)

6. There probably will still be 20-25 new hires come Monday as well.

havick206
07-09-2019, 09:52 PM
FOR THOSE STILL KEEPING TRACK

Monday will be:

1. Our 7th paycheck at significantly lower rates than PSA.

2. 103/105 days since the PSA raise announcement/back pay date.

3. 38/61 days since the Piedmont raise announcement/back pay date.

4. 30 days since Envoy backed out of the AIP.

5. The company will have saved (very conservatively) over $9 million by this time.

(Average $13/hr raise) x (40 hours credit average per pay period) x (7 pay periods) x (2500 pilots)

6. There probably will still be 20-25 new hires come Monday as well.

How many days since EDV pay raise?

HalyardJammer
07-09-2019, 10:28 PM
How many days since EDV pay raise?

I think that was the beginning of 18.

LowvalueFO
07-09-2019, 10:41 PM
You can ***** all you want, as long as Envoy is filling classes (spoiler ALERT - they still do) Management sees no reason for raises, short and simple ...

Varsity
07-10-2019, 09:07 AM
You can ***** all you want, as long as Envoy is filling classes (spoiler ALERT - they still do) Management sees no reason for raises, short and simple ...

DUI’s? Multiple checkride failures? Don’t know jack about IFR? Come to Envoy and flow to AA. We’re the new Mesa.

UnprotectdPilot
07-10-2019, 09:21 AM
DUI’s? Multiple checkride failures? Don’t know jack about IFR? Come to Envoy and flow to AA. We’re the new Mesa.

It's honestly embarrassing on behalf of AAG. There's so little discretion in hiring right now - hiring that will one day nine or more years from now [maybe] result in a mainline AA pilot. For a company that holds such high standards for their off-the-street hiring, they're doing a terrible job building up their future pipeline.

Raises must happen to attract quality applicants.

#ENVOYtheMESAofAAGwhollyowneds

pitchattitude
07-10-2019, 09:35 AM
Anybody know the failure rate on new hires? I would think the union should have access to that information. Someone said the reason the DEC program was shut down was high failure rate. I know first hand of several OTS hires that didn’t make it through training. But just because of the company’s spite for pilots, they would probably waste more money on training than pay for a quality product. They have certainly shown this to be the case with all that were forced to upgrade into the CRJ or 145 only to turn right around for another upgrade to what they wanted, or in at least one case, CRJ, then 145 and finally 175. I personally know of at least one that went 175-145-175 and another that was DEC and has gone 145-175 and is scheduled to go back to the 145. Not sure if he put a bid in to go back to the 175 on this bid or not.

Bottom line is the company could have avoided a lot of training waste and lost productivity but didn’t want to talk to the union because they knew there were things they would have to change that would benefit the pilots to change what would avoid the training churn.

They can also get better quality applicants and fewer failure with raises that would allow them to be more selective.

LowvalueFO
07-10-2019, 10:28 AM
Anybody know the failure rate on new hires? I would think the union should have access to that information. Someone said the reason the DEC program was shut down was high failure rate. I know first hand of several OTS hires that didn’t make it through training. But just because of the company’s spite for pilots, they would probably waste more money on training than pay for a quality product. They have certainly shown this to be the case with all that were forced to upgrade into the CRJ or 145 only to turn right around for another upgrade to what they wanted, or in at least one case, CRJ, then 145 and finally 175. I personally know of at least one that went 175-145-175 and another that was DEC and has gone 145-175 and is scheduled to go back to the 145. Not sure if he put a bid in to go back to the 175 on this bid or not.

Bottom line is the company could have avoided a lot of training waste and lost productivity but didn’t want to talk to the union because they knew there were things they would have to change that would benefit the pilots to change what would avoid the training churn.

They can also get better quality applicants and fewer failure with raises that would allow them to be more selective.

You can bet your tushi that they have run the numbers - just speaking from former employment it was a common practice and still was cheaper than paying higher wages across the board - so again, decent class sizes - no raises at all ... get used to it and bend over ... =) ... as the Union will absolutely not ruffle any feathers as pointed out many times before for various reasons.

Varsity
07-10-2019, 11:01 AM
You can bet your tushi that they have run the numbers - just speaking from former employment it was a common practice and still was cheaper than paying higher wages across the board - so again, decent class sizes - no raises at all ... get used to it and bend over ... =) ... as the Union will absolutely not ruffle any feathers as pointed out many times before for various reasons.

A lot of current union members have been dealing with this mafia management team for better part of 2 decades.

They know what they are doing. I'm convinced you're new.

daOldMan
07-10-2019, 11:27 AM
A lot of current union members have been dealing with this mafia management team for better part of 2 decades.

They know what they are doing. I'm convinced you're new.

They aren't doing a very good job with their "2 decades of experience". Not sure that the experience is paying off. Envoy is one of the worst places to be right now.

LowvalueFO
07-10-2019, 01:36 PM
A lot of current union members have been dealing with this mafia management team for better part of 2 decades.

They know what they are doing. I'm convinced you're new.

Are you serious now ??? ... I am sure you are joking ... but hey how is that pay raise coming for ya? - or how about the new reserve rules?

Yeah I did not think so ... That 2 decades have done ****, they still get played just fine by management ...

Varsity
07-10-2019, 01:52 PM
Are you serious now ??? ... I am sure you are joking ... but hey how is that pay raise coming for ya? - or how about the new reserve rules?

Yeah I did not think so ... That 2 decades have done ****, they still get played just fine by management ...

I'm fine without a pay raise. I'd rather have what the union negotiated and what the company initially agreed to.

You posting the same thing over and over again doesn't change my mind.

BigZ
07-10-2019, 02:03 PM
I'm fine without a pay raise. I'd rather have what the union negotiated and what the company initially agreed to.

You posting the same thing over and over again doesn't change my mind.
Amen

Filler

highfarfast
07-10-2019, 02:37 PM
I'm fine without a pay raise. I'd rather have what the union negotiated and what the company initially agreed to.

You posting the same thing over and over again doesn't change my mind.

My thoughts exactly.

pitchattitude
07-10-2019, 02:55 PM
I'm fine without a pay raise. I'd rather have what the union negotiated and what the company initially agreed to.

You posting the same thing over and over again doesn't change my mind.
Wait. You said two different things.

I’m fine without a pay raise. Really? No pay raise?

I'd rather have what the union negotiated and what the company initially agreed to.

While we don’t know the details, pretty sure the AIP included at least something close to pay parity. That’s what everyone has said they want. Pay increase with out concessions.

Cyio
07-10-2019, 03:06 PM
Wait. You said two different things.

I’m fine without a pay raise. Really? No pay raise?

I'd rather have what the union negotiated and what the company initially agreed to.

While we don’t know the details, pretty sure the AIP included at least something close to pay parity. That’s what everyone has said they want. Pay increase with not concessions.

Yeah I have to agree. I haven’t been able to follow the logic of their posts.

BigZ
07-10-2019, 04:21 PM
Yeah I have to agree. I haven’t been able to follow the logic of their posts.

What he meant was we aren't twisting our panties in a knot for A pay raise right MEOW. We want good and proper AIP or better.

pitchattitude
07-10-2019, 04:53 PM
What he meant was we aren't twisting our panties in a knot for A pay raise right MEOW. We want good and proper AIP or better.
Fine with WAITING for a pay raise to get the AIP, or better. And back pay.

Varsity
07-10-2019, 05:00 PM
Endeavor is growing this fall, adding 60 pilots per month. That will put pressure on our recruiting (and everyone else).

EnyFlyr
07-10-2019, 05:10 PM
Endeavor is growing this fall, adding 60 pilots per month. That will put pressure on our recruiting (and everyone else).

I have seen their ads on facebook recently for Pilots. This is good news

Cyio
07-11-2019, 08:04 AM
I have seen their ads on facebook recently for Pilots. This is good news

Maybe I will put my app in lol.

VoiceOfReason
07-11-2019, 08:10 AM
I have seen their ads on facebook recently for Pilots. This is good news

For what it's worth, weekly classes starting in mid-August. The number I saw was closer to 40-45 per month, not 60. If you guys are increasingly frustrated by your lot in life, are fairly junior, and have minimal chances of upgrading/flowing in the next five years...come on down. The water is fine at EDV!

Shiner
07-11-2019, 02:06 PM
For what it's worth, weekly classes starting in mid-August. The number I saw was closer to 40-45 per month, not 60. If you guys are increasingly frustrated by your lot in life, are fairly junior, and have minimal chances of upgrading/flowing in the next five years...come on down. The water is fine at EDV!



With all of our new hires heading to LGA for the foreseeable future, they might as well go over there.


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buddies8
07-11-2019, 02:18 PM
As an FO unless they are displaced from the e145 right seat and the e145 being almost 3 times the fleet size of the e175 only an upgrade gets them off that airplane. Welcome to the big apple, watch out for the worm.

EnyFlyr
07-11-2019, 02:37 PM
With all of our new hires heading to LGA for the foreseeable future, they might as well go over there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is true. Some think they’ll catch the next hiring wave at envoy now before the pay raise (if it ever arrives) but that ship has sailed back in late 2016 early 2017 which could very well be a 5-6 year flow.

For all new-hires going to LGA now might as well get very well
compensated for it and go to Endeavor.

MEGAFUPM
07-16-2019, 06:37 AM
Just talked to some AA flight attendants...

At 3 years they're making the same pay as a first year FO, even though we have industry leading pay.

/s

Cyio
07-16-2019, 06:59 AM
This is true. Some think they’ll catch the next hiring wave at envoy now before the pay raise (if it ever arrives) but that ship has sailed back in late 2016 early 2017 which could very well be a 5-6 year flow.

For all new-hires going to LGA now might as well get very well
compensated for it and go to Endeavor.

This is spot on. There won’t be another huge hiring wave just because pay went up a few bucks.

copycopy
07-16-2019, 07:19 AM
I think that was the beginning of 18.

It was ~September or October ‘17 that EDV got their rates.

ninerdriver
07-16-2019, 03:31 PM
It was ~September or October ‘17 that EDV got their rates.

The LOA was signed around then. The wages went into effect 1/1/2018.

martyByrde
07-16-2019, 06:31 PM
So what’s next? More cooling down? 🙄

Varsity
07-16-2019, 07:39 PM
The cadets are basically hired pilots.

How does the union not have access to them?

Paid2fly
07-16-2019, 10:18 PM
So what’s next? More cooling down? 🙄




Chillin like a villain?

UncreativeUser
07-17-2019, 06:15 AM
The cadets are basically hired pilots.



How does the union not have access to them?



This.

When I was a cadet they never gave me ANY resources. One could argue “that’s cause they don’t pay dues” well what about probationary pilots? They don’t pay dues and yet get all the emails and everything. If they really wanted to reach cadets then they can so I believe that’s upon the union to carry out.


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Varsity
07-17-2019, 07:03 AM
This.

When I was a cadet they never gave me ANY resources. One could argue “that’s cause they don’t pay dues” well what about probationary pilots? They don’t pay dues and yet get all the emails and everything. If they really wanted to reach cadets then they can so I believe that’s upon the union to carry out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The union has tried to access them. The company has blocked them claiming they are a separate work group.

MEGAFUPM
07-17-2019, 08:33 AM
Why can't we do something like this

https://youtu.be/z7rjtBntPWg

rld1k
07-17-2019, 09:24 AM
Why can't we do something like this

https://youtu.be/z7rjtBntPWg

Finding anyone other than swayne to go on camera and be nice like that would be impossible.

UncreativeUser
07-17-2019, 09:54 AM
Finding anyone other than swayne to go on camera and be nice like that would be impossible.



Did he end up doing the right thing?


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MEGAFUPM
07-17-2019, 10:27 AM
Did he end up doing the right thing?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Since this was from 4 years ago I'm assuming that yes, they did get the raise, and probably another since.

Look at my previous post, a 3 year AA FA makes the same as a first year FO here. It's pretty sad when I'm sitting with an FO for a deadhead and we hear them complaining about how little they're paid only to chime in the conversation and find this out.

Especially sad considering an FO needs 1500 hours and the majority have a bachelor's degree with massive debt and/or also have previous military experience.

UncreativeUser
07-17-2019, 10:36 AM
Since this was from 4 years ago I'm assuming that yes, they did get the raise, and probably another since.



Look at my previous post, a 3 year AA FA makes the same as a first year FO here. It's pretty sad when I'm sitting with an FO for a deadhead and we hear them complaining about how little they're paid only to chime in the conversation and find this out.



Especially sad considering an FO needs 1500 hours and the majority have a bachelor's degree with massive debt and/or also have previous military experience.



Yeah it’s pretty bad but we’ve made good progress in the industry as a whole, this raise needs to keep up with that trend otherwise we seriously are going to be bringing in some sketchy prospects who will never make it through training. Which means the company spends 50k for essentially nothing. So with that being said a year 3 FA making as much if not more than an FO with 150k of debt is alarming to say the least.


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MEGAFUPM
07-17-2019, 10:44 AM
Yeah it’s pretty bad but we’ve made good progress in the industry as a whole, this raise needs to keep up with that trend otherwise we seriously are going to be bringing in some sketchy prospects who will never make it through training. Which means the company spends 50k for essentially nothing. So with that being said a year 3 FA making as much if not more than an FO with 150k of debt is alarming to say the least.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


50k for 1-2 students that fail per class is nothing when you're saving over $1 million every 2 weeks underpaying your pilots

UncreativeUser
07-17-2019, 10:46 AM
50k for 1-2 students that fail per class is nothing when you're saving over $1 million every 2 weeks underpaying your pilots



Yes, very valid point, but what if said sketchy pilots get through and causes severe aircraft perhaps even totals one?





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MEGAFUPM
07-17-2019, 10:50 AM
Yes, very valid point, but what if said sketchy pilots get through and causes severe aircraft perhaps even totals one?





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

They'll get fired for spinning in the wrong heading before being able to crash the plane.

martyByrde
07-21-2019, 01:14 PM
What if the unions asked the creator of QuickTrade to suspend the open time pickup feature until the AIP is approved :D

buddies8
07-21-2019, 01:58 PM
Ok AOC......

martyByrde
07-21-2019, 02:07 PM
Ok AOC......

😆 I’m guessing a lot of OT wouldn’t sit in ot if QT didn’t work

buddies8
07-22-2019, 05:45 AM
Good point...

SilentLurker
07-22-2019, 06:00 PM
Pilots bringing political partisanship into the flightdeck or a peer to peer pilot group conversation is wacker than crack! Haha!

highfarfast
07-22-2019, 06:05 PM
Pilots bringing political partisanship into the flightdeck or a peer to peer pilot group conversation is wacker than crack! Haha!

Then I must fly with a lot of wacker than crack pilots then!

dera
07-22-2019, 06:09 PM
Pilots bringing political partisanship into the flightdeck or a peer to peer pilot group conversation is wacker than crack! Haha!

You know it's a going to be a good trip when your CA briefs you with "I don't want politics on the flight deck" followed 20 seconds later by "how these f*cking liberals are destroying this country", and finished with "are you a christian?".

martyByrde
07-22-2019, 11:04 PM
You know it's a going to be a good trip when your CA briefs you with "I don't want politics on the flight deck" followed 20 seconds later by "how these f*cking liberals are destroying this country", and finished with "are you a christian?".
😂. Lemme guess “I always fly by the book” was tossed in there too?

1Taco
07-23-2019, 06:36 AM
😂. Lemme guess “I always fly by the book” was tossed in there too?

“And by the book, I mean I fly MY book.”