Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




povertyeagle
07-14-2019, 03:24 PM
Not $60,000.

Your sign on 'bonus' is a LOAN that you don't earn for 2 years.


More facts, less recruiting propaganda.


UncreativeUser
07-14-2019, 04:05 PM
Not $60,000.

Your sign on 'bonus' is a LOAN that you don't earn for 2 years.


More facts, less recruiting propaganda.



Hmmm, what’s the interest rate then?

If we’re talking about facts.



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Tyrion
07-14-2019, 04:40 PM
Hmmm, what’s the interest rate then?

If we’re talking about facts.



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The phrase I've been hearing tossed about is "golden handcuffs".


Jungle Jim
07-14-2019, 04:48 PM
The phrase I've been hearing tossed about is "golden handcuffs".

Sounds more like a golden shower

Paid2fly
07-14-2019, 04:53 PM
Sounds more like a golden shower



:eek:





:D

mketch11
07-14-2019, 06:40 PM
2nd year pay is 40k, problem solved

Cyio
07-15-2019, 02:25 AM
2nd year pay is 40k, problem solved

Well damn, break open the champagne.

HalyardJammer
07-15-2019, 04:18 AM
Well damn, break open the champagne.

But don't break the bottle, we need to get the recycle value out of it if we're going to have enough money for dinner.

Varsity
07-15-2019, 11:30 AM
Should go a long way in New York City.

GoFast8
07-15-2019, 11:59 AM
Not $60,000.

Your sign on 'bonus' is a LOAN that you don't earn for 2 years.


More facts, less recruiting propaganda.

110% agree. Unless its guaranteed to be in your bi-weekly pay stub you cant hardly count it as “income”. Bonuses and per diem are just icing when you get them.

Try to prove $60k income to the bank when buying a house...not gonna happen.

Varsity
07-20-2019, 06:10 AM
Hmmm, what’s the interest rate then?

If we’re talking about facts.



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Two years of your life. How much is that worth?

Since we're talking facts.

Squirrel27
07-20-2019, 08:44 AM
Hmmm, what’s the interest rate then?

If we’re talking about facts.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interest isn't the defining characteristic of a loan. I can loan you money with 0% interest and you'd still have to pay me back.

The defining characteristic of a loan is that it has to be paid back. Some loans always have to be paid back. Some loans only have to be paid back under a certain set of circumstances; ie, someone leaves a job before a certain time frame.

And remember, it's not just two years. It's two years from finishing IOE. While that may sound trivial, it isn't to the people stuck in that spot right now.

Varsity
07-20-2019, 09:06 AM
Envoy even calls it a loan in the legal docs.

In accepting the initial bonus outlined in this Agreement, Pilot Authorizes Envoy
to deduct any portion of the New Hire Pilot Bonus that Pilot still owes under the terms of this
Agreement from Pilot’s final paycheck, including but not limited to deductions resulting in Pilot
being paid less than the applicable minimum wage. Pilot specifically agrees that any such offset
by Envoy is for the purpose of repaying a loan.

MEGAFUPM
07-20-2019, 09:48 AM
You guys are really only giving the "first officer entitled millennial" stigma more backing. No one forced you to take the bonus. They gave you the paperwork and agreement for it long before you started. And I'm sorry can you show me which loan you can get that gets cut in half after a year and disappears after 2? You think you should be handed 20k and be able to walk away after 4 months with no repercussions because of you didn't get the base/airplane you wanted. Everyone here knew the pay as well before they started. I'm just as upset at management as anyone else about how the negotiations have been going, but trying to act like it's slave labor and that you were forced to sign a "loan" is just ridiculous.

Varsity
07-20-2019, 10:07 AM
You guys are really only giving the "first officer entitled millennial" stigma more backing. No one forced you to take the bonus. They gave you the paperwork and agreement for it long before you started. And I'm sorry can you show me which loan you can get that gets cut in half after a year and disappears after 2? You think you should be handed 20k and be able to walk away after 4 months with no repercussions because of you didn't get the base/airplane you wanted. Everyone here knew the pay as well before they started. I'm just as upset at management as anyone else about how the negotiations have been going, but trying to act like it's slave labor and that you were forced to sign a "loan" is just ridiculous.

Have you considered that some of us are trying to leave?

Management tells us in all the recruiting ads that first year pay is 60k. If someone works here for 1 year, they aren't making 60k. Not even close, probably not even half if they took the CTP course help.

MEGAFUPM
07-20-2019, 10:46 AM
Have you considered that some of us are trying to leave?

Management tells us in all the recruiting ads that first year pay is 60k. If someone works here for 1 year, they aren't making 60k. Not even close, probably not even half if they took the CTP course help.

Right... The recruitment workers at any company are going to inflate the truth to get people in the door... It's the same at every regional, not just envoy. They all say you can make 60k+ a year and include things such as bonuses, per diem, benefits, etc in that. It's your job to do the actual math. I think right now TSA says their first year pay is over 90k. It's your job to go through the fine print and find the truth. Most people aren't going to feel bad for you that you CHOSE to take 20k and want to leave now. Try buying a new car and after 4 months saying "I don't really like it so I'm not gonna pay for it anymore but I'm gonna keep the car" since you want to compare this to a loan.

OldBiff
07-20-2019, 01:21 PM
Have you considered that some of us are trying to leave?

Management tells us in all the recruiting ads that first year pay is 60k. If someone works here for 1 year, they aren't making 60k. Not even close, probably not even half if they took the CTP course help.

This guy has a 25% car loan on a 2008 Mustang likely purchased on a lot near a tattoo parlor and pay day lender... with the undercoat.

pitchattitude
07-20-2019, 02:35 PM
This guy has a 25% car loan on a 2008 Mustang likely purchased on a lot near a tattoo parlor and pay day lender... with the undercoat.
Hey, the undercoat is a very important value added item in the DFW area, with all the salt they put on the roads in the winter.

Captain Kirk
07-20-2019, 02:54 PM
I always go with the Trucoat😁

https://youtu.be/B2LLB9CGfLs

Paid2fly
07-20-2019, 07:20 PM
I always go with the Trucoat😁

https://youtu.be/B2LLB9CGfLs




A wise choice!


:D

UncreativeUser
07-21-2019, 02:54 AM
Envoy even calls it a loan in the legal docs.



Now that’s a fact!


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Varsity
01-10-2020, 06:53 PM
Man, I sure love making min guarantee with 11 days off.

UncreativeUser
01-11-2020, 03:25 AM
Man, I sure love making min guarantee with 11 days off.



Can’t pick up OT?


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Varsity
01-11-2020, 04:12 AM
Can’t pick up OT?


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And go down to 8 or 9 days off?

You guys are missing the point. You actually believe it's normal to bust your butts for 45k a year and 11 days off a month.

Go look at the minimum requirements on American Airlines hiring website, then go look at Envoy's. They are the exact same. Your QOL and paychecks shouldn't be 10x different.

daOldMan
01-11-2020, 05:08 AM
And go down to 8 or 9 days off?

You guys are missing the point. You actually believe it's normal to bust your butts for 45k a year and 11 days off a month.

Go look at the minimum requirements on American Airlines hiring website, then go look at Envoy's. They are the exact same. Your QOL and paychecks shouldn't be 10x different.

Unfortunately, that is what you signed up for. All of that time that you spent getting your ratings and hours were for this. (Actually, when you started, regional FOs were making $22,000 first year with no bonuses).

Looks like you screwed up if this makes you upset. Should have taken the computer programming classes like your Guidance Counselor recommended!

For me, making $12,000 for a couple years and then $300,000 toward the middle of my career, topping out over $500,000 was worth it.

Sounds like you are not willing to pay the dues for admission. This is a real career that takes a lot of dues before you make the big bucks. If you think a 1000 hour CFI from riddle starting at Envoy should be making the same as a 5000 hour pilot with 5 years 121 experience starting at AA, you have some serious issues.

6ix9ineYearFlow
01-11-2020, 05:21 AM
Unfortunately, that is what you signed up for. All of that time that you spent getting your ratings and hours were for this. (Actually, when you started, regional FOs were making $22,000 first year with no bonuses).

Looks like you screwed up if this makes you upset. Should have taken the computer programming classes like your Guidance Counselor recommended!

For me, making $12,000 for a couple years and then $300,000 toward the middle of my career, topping out over $500,000 was worth it.

Sounds like you are not willing to pay the dues for admission. This is a real career that takes a lot of dues before you make the big bucks. If you think a 1000 hour CFI from riddle starting at Envoy should be making the same as a 5000 hour pilot with 5 years 121 experience starting at AA, you have some serious issues.

Okay, boomer.

Cyio
01-11-2020, 05:28 AM
Unfortunately, that is what you signed up for. All of that time that you spent getting your ratings and hours were for this. (Actually, when you started, regional FOs were making $22,000 first year with no bonuses).

Looks like you screwed up if this makes you upset. Should have taken the computer programming classes like your Guidance Counselor recommended!

For me, making $12,000 for a couple years and then $300,000 toward the middle of my career, topping out over $500,000 was worth it.

Sounds like you are not willing to pay the dues for admission. This is a real career that takes a lot of dues before you make the big bucks. If you think a 1000 hour CFI from riddle starting at Envoy should be making the same as a 5000 hour pilot with 5 years 121 experience starting at AA, you have some serious issues.

OK, what about a 5 year 5000 hour eagle pilot? Should they be making the same as AA?

UncreativeUser
01-11-2020, 05:32 AM
And go down to 8 or 9 days off?



You guys are missing the point. You actually believe it's normal to bust your butts for 45k a year and 11 days off a month.



Go look at the minimum requirements on American Airlines hiring website, then go look at Envoy's. They are the exact same. Your QOL and paychecks shouldn't be 10x different.



Well they are. If you think you have the ability to convince Doug Parker, Ed Bastain and Scott Kirby otherwise than you’re in for hell of a battle.

Our OT rules are pretty solid for reserve. Pick up a trip (I’m a commuter with a family) and get it done. Get the time, get the PIC, collect the extra cash and get your apps out.


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Excargodog
01-11-2020, 06:01 AM
Okay, boomer.

Seriously? You are this far into the career without ever having researched what you were getting into? How could you not know the gauntlet you had to run to get to the goal? Did you not look ahead at all?

Not asking you to like it. Nobody requires you to like it.

But everybody eventually has to deal with reality. That doesn’t make you a boomer, merely an adult.

Tomhawker
01-11-2020, 06:12 AM
Unfortunately, that is what you signed up for. All of that time that you spent getting your ratings and hours were for this. (Actually, when you started, regional FOs were making $22,000 first year with no bonuses).

Looks like you screwed up if this makes you upset. Should have taken the computer programming classes like your Guidance Counselor recommended!

For me, making $12,000 for a couple years and then $300,000 toward the middle of my career, topping out over $500,000 was worth it.

Sounds like you are not willing to pay the dues for admission. This is a real career that takes a lot of dues before you make the big bucks. If you think a 1000 hour CFI from riddle starting at Envoy should be making the same as a 5000 hour pilot with 5 years 121 experience starting at AA, you have some serious issues.
This is a foolish and elitist position. If everyone accepts that regional flying is just about “paying dues”, then no argument can be made for QOL improvements. It assumes everyone’s goal is to fly for a legacy and make $500G. Partially, at least, to amend for the lost years slumming through less valuable flying. Essentially it offers nothing constructive, only a prideful boast of success and accomplishment. Go flaunt some of that money you made to the old hags at the bar if you need that type of attention. It’s kind of pathetic to do it here. BTW, why are in a regional forum?

daOldMan
01-11-2020, 06:20 AM
This is a foolish and elitist position. If everyone accepts that regional flying is just about “paying dues”, then no argument can be made for QOL improvements. It assumes everyone’s goal is to fly for a legacy and make $500G. Partially, at least, to amend for the lost years slumming through less valuable flying. Essentially it offers nothing constructive, only a prideful boast of success and accomplishment. Go flaunt some of that money you made to the old hags at the bar if you need that type of attention. It’s kind of pathetic to do it here. BTW, why are in a regional forum?

I am in a regional forum because we were laughing about the ridiculous beliefs of the kids at the commuters these days. They have been in the industry for 10 minutes and think they know a better way. They know nothing about the history of the airlines and what it took to get us where we are right now.

The kids coming in today have it better than any generation of pilot before them, and this will continue for the next decade. After that, they are screwed. Most of the pilots being hired now are 35 or so years old and will have 30 year careers. That means that anyone hired at the legacy airlines 10 years from now will have to wait close to 15-20 years to upgrade, whereas those that are joining now will upgrade in under 5 years.

The next generation of pilot will despise all of you that are starting now, and will want to take away your seniority system and your pay, much like you are wanting to do to those above you now.

Just shut up, learn something, pay your dues, and when it is your turn, you will realize that it is a great system and you won't want to change it.

And yes..the commuter airlines are 100% about paying your dues before going to real airlines.

daOldMan
01-11-2020, 06:22 AM
If everyone accepts that regional flying is just about “paying dues”, then no argument can be made for QOL improvements.

Agreed. 100%. The regional flying is just about paying dues.

Pay your dues and move on.

Tomhawker
01-11-2020, 06:30 AM
I am in a regional forum because we were laughing about the ridiculous beliefs of the kids at the commuters these days. They have been in the industry for 10 minutes and think they know a better way. They know nothing about the history of the airlines and what it took to get us where we are right now.

The kids coming in today have it better than any generation of pilot before them, and this will continue for the next decade. After that, they are screwed. Most of the pilots being hired now are 35 or so years old and will have 30 year careers. That means that anyone hired at the legacy airlines 10 years from now will have to wait close to 15-20 years to upgrade, whereas those that are joining now will upgrade in under 5 years.

The next generation of pilot will despise all of you that are starting now, and will want to take away your seniority system and your pay, much like you are wanting to do to those above you now.

Just shut up, learn something, pay your dues, and when it is your turn, you will realize that it is a great system and you won't want to change it.

And yes..the commuter airlines are 100% about paying your dues before going to real airlines.

On second thought, sure. Taking advice from someone whose life is so fulfilling that they’re browsing regional forums putting regional guys in their place sounds like a great idea.

Varsity
01-11-2020, 07:17 AM
“Pay your dues”.

The best argument some old boomers can come up with. The regional system as it exists today is a product of them selling out other pilots to pad their own paycheck. Truth hurts.

tommy2times
01-11-2020, 07:20 AM
Agreed. 100%. The regional flying is just about paying dues.

Pay your dues and move on.

Listen old man, I wanna make money while I am young and no need for the blue pill. FUPM

daOldMan
01-11-2020, 07:32 AM
Listen old man, I wanna make money while I am young and no need for the blue pill. FUPM

How many ex-wives do you have to pay for?

How many boats do you even own?

How many sports cars do you have in your garages?

Why do you need to make more than $50k. That should be enough for you right now!

Now that you are all riled up...have a good weekend.

tommy2times
01-11-2020, 07:42 AM
How many ex-wives do you have to pay for?

How many boats do you even own?

How many sports cars do you have in your garages?

Why do you need to make more than $50k. That should be enough for you right now!

Now that you are all riled up...have a good weekend.


This ain’t 2008 it is 2020 Cheers...
FUPM

Locks
01-11-2020, 08:21 AM
Old pilots: If I had to suffer, so should everyone else.

It really sucks what pilots used to make and the work rules they had to endure. However, just because you had it bad, doesn’t mean that’s the way it should be. You used to be able to fly right seat at 250 hours. Now that pilots have to come in with 1500 hours, the pay needed to go up for requiring 5x more experience. Also, a pilot making low $20k (or even less) and working like a dog is ridiculous no matter how many hours they came in with. It’s incredibly unfortunate it took people losing their lives to give us a safe and proper work environment. We need to keep fighting for even better pay and better work rules. A happy pilot is a safer pilot. I hope the pilots who come after me start at a salary that generously compensates them for their training and hard work, even if it means I “missed out” on it personally. There is PLENTY of money to go around. We need to fight for it together, not tear each other apart.

Chato
01-11-2020, 09:11 AM
You are responsible for the lives of many and the multimillion dollar equipment you operate. You should be compensated accordingly.
The whole “pay your dues” mentality should be a thing of the past.

Before people start saying “this is why they’re coming up with pilotless airplanes”, they cant even get the 73 Max off the ground (literally) , I’ll get my popcorn while they figure out the rest.

Cyio
01-11-2020, 09:30 AM
How many ex-wives do you have to pay for?

How many boats do you even own?

How many sports cars do you have in your garages?

Why do you need to make more than $50k. That should be enough for you right now!

Now that you are all riled up...have a good weekend.
So you didn't answer my response earlier in the thread when you said a new hire FO at a regional shouldn't expect the same pay as an AA pilot with 5 years and 5000 121. So, I will ask again, what about a regional pilot with 5 years and 5000 121? Do they then qualify for your higher pay?

Second, you keep talking about kids and in this post I quoted, you mention all these extra things to pay for. I would say, fairly confidently, that the majority of pilots at Envoy at least are 30+ years old, lots 40+. It is disingenuous for you to assume that we are all "kids" and need to learn something from you, on the sole basis that you are older and started sooner.

Third, I have never been a fan of "paying your dues" for the sole reason of "that's what we had to do", or "you have it better than ever before". Well sure, that is the goal here in society, to always be improving and making it better for the next generation.

Lastly, super cool that you are making that money, but coming into a regional forum with people that are making not even a quarter of that, working more hours, more turns and crappier qol is kind of a dick move. Again, many pilots in the regional pool from the last few years are either second career folks, people that had to get out of aviation during the lost decade or people that are coming from helicopters and the like, again older than some "kid".

When you default to insults such as "kids" and use the criteria that you "think" you have more things to pay for, it invalidates your entire argument. Much like these fools calling you a "boomer". The moment I read that word I stop listening and assume the person has nothing constructive to say, hence needing to throw out inflammatory terms.

Cyio
01-11-2020, 09:35 AM
You are responsible for the lives of many and the multimillion dollar equipment you operate. You should be compensated accordingly.
The whole “pay your dues” mentality should be a thing of the past.

Before people start saying “this is why they’re coming up with pilotless airplanes”, they cant even get the 73 Max off the ground (literally) , I’ll get my popcorn while they figure out the rest.

Pilotless aircraft on the civilian side are so far out that I have decided to not even consider it anymore. All it will take is one of them to go down and it will be all over, especially if the argument can be made that a real pilot up front could have save the day.

Hell, I remember Bezos saying 5 years ago that we would have a fully autonomous fleet of drones delivering packages to our doors, you can see how well that played out. Again, all it will take is for a few of them to get hacked on go on some sort of jihad to ruin that entire idea, or for one to drop a package on someones head, or the constant noise these things will generate, etc.

I honestly believe it all will eventually happen, but I think we are at least 30+ years out before wide scale implementation.

majorpilot
01-12-2020, 06:58 PM
Just shut up, learn something, pay your dues, and when it is your turn, you will realize that it is a great system and you won't want to change it.






And us older folks didn’t benefit from anything. We had to walk to the airport, uphill, both ways, barefoot in blinding snowstorms, then get up the next morning a half hour before we went to bed to do it all over again!!

Why change anything? Why try to better anything? This “I paid my dues, now you have to pay yours” mentality is at the root of most of the stupidity that exists in the world today.

We should all be living under English monarchical rule as peasants under an elite class with no social mobility. Then most of us (and certainly the “dues payers”) wouldn’t have to worry about anything except what His Lordship gives us.

Oh and airplanes weren’t invented either...wagons and horses are fine, it’s a great system, why change it?! Blacksmithing is an honorable profession.

Ugh...

majorpilot
01-12-2020, 07:05 PM
So you didn't answer my response earlier in the thread when you said a new hire FO at a regional shouldn't expect the same pay as an AA pilot with 5 years and 5000 121. So, I will ask again, what about a regional pilot with 5 years and 5000 121? Do they then qualify for your higher pay?



Second, you keep talking about kids and in this post I quoted, you mention all these extra things to pay for. I would say, fairly confidently, that the majority of pilots at Envoy at least are 30+ years old, lots 40+. It is disingenuous for you to assume that we are all "kids" and need to learn something from you, on the sole basis that you are older and started sooner.



Third, I have never been a fan of "paying your dues" for the sole reason of "that's what we had to do", or "you have it better than ever before". Well sure, that is the goal here in society, to always be improving and making it better for the next generation.



Lastly, super cool that you are making that money, but coming into a regional forum with people that are making not even a quarter of that, working more hours, more turns and crappier qol is kind of a dick move. Again, many pilots in the regional pool from the last few years are either second career folks, people that had to get out of aviation during the lost decade or people that are coming from helicopters and the like, again older than some "kid".



When you default to insults such as "kids" and use the criteria that you "think" you have more things to pay for, it invalidates your entire argument. Much like these fools calling you a "boomer". The moment I read that word I stop listening and assume the person has nothing constructive to say, hence needing to throw out inflammatory terms.


This is an extraordinarily thoughtful, on-point post. Sadly, given the tenor of the post it challenges, it is likely wasted.

Equally sad is that someone who has lived enough years to think they can label entire groups of adults as “kids” has neither the wisdom to refrain from doing so, nor the kindness to take this opportunity to mentor.

I’m betting there is no thoughtful, fact-based response, just more “kids today” drivel.

By the way, I am also a “boomer.” A late one, but still counts...

UncreativeUser
01-13-2020, 06:36 AM
This country runs on the free market, and when the government deregulated that left it up to fair game, so yes AAG could go under if the right set of events occurred.

However, I don’t think they are going to be absorbed by Spirit in 2030, if anything AA is adapting to the market, and that’s what good companies do. Really crappy they want to cram more seats in but in reality they are setting themselves up to compete if necessary during a recession. No amount of brand loyalty can help when you can offer a cheap ticket.

Where they should keep investing in is their first class/ business international. That’s where the experience really matters. Including coast to coast flights (LAX-JFK) too.


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Varsity
01-13-2020, 07:32 AM
This country runs on the free market, and when the government deregulated that left it up to fair game, so yes AAG could go under if the right set of events occurred.

However, I don’t think they are going to be absorbed by Spirit in 2030, if anything AA is adapting to the market, and that’s what good companies do. Really crappy they want to cram more seats in but in reality they are setting themselves up to compete if necessary during a recession. No amount of brand loyalty can help when you can offer a cheap ticket.

Where they should keep investing in is their first class/ business international. That’s where the experience really matters. Including coast to coast flights (LAX-JFK) too.


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You can't be both. Jack of all trades, master of none.

UncreativeUser
01-13-2020, 10:46 AM
You can't be both. Jack of all trades, master of none.



Exactly. Not sure if their are trying to be a “hybrid” airline but that would be a first I think


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Cyio
01-13-2020, 10:49 AM
You can't be both. Jack of all trades, master of none.
Agreed and I would add that I think it is this attempt to do it all that is hurting customer service and satisfaction. Virtually every aspect of flying on AA has gone down over the last few years while service and quality have risen at Delta.

lavMan
01-16-2020, 03:44 PM
You are responsible for the lives of many and the multimillion dollar equipment you operate. You should be compensated accordingly.
The whole “pay your dues” mentality should be a thing of the past.

Before people start saying “this is why they’re coming up with pilotless airplanes”, they cant even get the 73 Max off the ground (literally) , I’ll get my popcorn while they figure out the rest.


ha ha. You realize that the regional model has been the same since it’s existence. It was the same bull crap 20years ago, and 20 before that as it is today. I heard the same arguments 20yrs ago flying a turbo prop. Here’s the truth. You need them as much as they need you. The only way you might have a chance of getting out of a regional is getting some left seat time. Unless you’re just doing it for some experience, and have a guard gig flying an F-16 etc. it’s stil tough to get in to the legacies or LCC, pilot shortage or not. You gotta pay your dues a little more, and I only say that because I’ve been there done that. You’ll look back in a few years and forget it all. I suggest go to work, go home do what you can do to get out, and don’t sweat the small stuff. It’ll work out in the end.

BIueSideUp
01-17-2020, 02:15 AM
I am in a regional forum because we were laughing about the ridiculous beliefs of the kids at the commuters these days. They have been in the industry for 10 minutes and think they know a better way. They know nothing about the history of the airlines and what it took to get us where we are right now.

The kids coming in today have it better than any generation of pilot before them, and this will continue for the next decade. After that, they are screwed. Most of the pilots being hired now are 35 or so years old and will have 30 year careers. That means that anyone hired at the legacy airlines 10 years from now will have to wait close to 15-20 years to upgrade, whereas those that are joining now will upgrade in under 5 years.

The next generation of pilot will despise all of you that are starting now, and will want to take away your seniority system and your pay, much like you are wanting to do to those above you now.

Just shut up, learn something, pay your dues, and when it is your turn, you will realize that it is a great system and you won't want to change it.

And yes..the commuter airlines are 100% about paying your dues before going to real airlines.

The "pay your dues" mentality is redonk but this is a scary/realistic point here.

Varsity
01-17-2020, 04:46 AM
The "pay your dues" mentality is redonk but this is a scary/realistic point here.

Is it though? The generation ahead of us got 5 years longer than anybody else, and is asking for more.

pitchattitude
01-17-2020, 09:29 AM
Is it though? The generation ahead of us got 5 years longer than anybody else, and is asking for more.
Everyone else after gets five more years as well. Probably be another two years added on at some point.

Tyrion
01-17-2020, 12:40 PM
Not quite... this generation gets the same amount of mainline time. We just got to enjoy 5 more years of regional life. I don't want 2 more years at the end. At that age, I want to be half drunk on the back 9 at the country club by noon every day.