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austinrc1260
07-23-2019, 06:46 AM
Hi all, from a total outsider-

Why did PSA and Piedmont, being part of AAG, come to deals on higher pay and better work rules in recent months when Envoy reneged on a deal and is dragging their feet?

I've seen people say the whole "we have 10,000 cadets who would do your job for free" thing, but doesn't that apply to OH and PT as well?

Thanks for any answers you may have.


pitchattitude
07-23-2019, 06:55 AM
Hi all, from a total outsider-

Why did PSA and Piedmont, being part of AAG, come to deals on higher pay and better work rules in recent months when Envoy reneged on a deal and is dragging their feet?

I've seen people say the whole "we have 10,000 cadets who would do your job for free" thing, but doesn't that apply to OH and PT as well?

Thanks for any answers you may have.
Because those 10,000 cadets donít want to fly clapped out CRJs and 145s. Envoy has a very strong recruiting program with cadets and the 175 is a big draw.

They just donít know there are several other places they can go and fly the 175 for more money and better conditions. They also donít understand that the value of the flow to a current new hire is minimal and certainly not worth what they are sacrificing.

Phoenix21
07-23-2019, 07:03 AM
Hi all, from a total outsider-

Why did PSA and Piedmont, being part of AAG, come to deals on higher pay and better work rules in recent months when Envoy reneged on a deal and is dragging their feet?

I've seen people say the whole "we have 10,000 cadets who would do your job for free" thing, but doesn't that apply to OH and PT as well?

Thanks for any answers you may have.

There have been no work rule improvements for Piedmont. It still lags FAR behind both Envoy and PSA.


Jma313
07-23-2019, 08:19 AM
Hi all, from a total outsider-

Why did PSA and Piedmont, being part of AAG, come to deals on higher pay and better work rules in recent months when Envoy reneged on a deal and is dragging their feet?

I've seen people say the whole "we have 10,000 cadets who would do your job for free" thing, but doesn't that apply to OH and PT as well?

Thanks for any answers you may have.

None of the LOAs at PSA have been great for QOL. Pay was increased but nothing else has changed dramatically.

Tyrion
07-23-2019, 09:18 PM
None of the LOAs at PSA have been great for QOL. Pay was increased but nothing else has changed dramatically.

PSA has been well ahead of Envoy in the QOL department for a while now. Envoy has no soft pay, no rigs, poor scheduling. I'd trade my union rep's left nut for some of the benefits PSA has.

pitchattitude
07-23-2019, 09:39 PM
PSA has been well ahead of Envoy in the QOL department for a while now. Envoy has no soft pay, no rigs, poor scheduling. I'd trade my union rep's left nut for some of the benefits PSA has.

And since they wonít be needing them, might as well trade the right one for PSAís pay scale.

MD-11Loader
07-24-2019, 04:05 AM
PSA has been well ahead of Envoy in the QOL department for a while now. Envoy has no soft pay, no rigs, poor scheduling. I'd trade my union rep's left nut for some of the benefits PSA has.

So why didnít you go there in the first place?

MEGAFUPM
07-24-2019, 05:36 AM
The company would give us the pay raises tomorrow if the union accepted them only such as PSA and PDT. The union wants a bunch of other QOL improvements in there as well they have been going back and forth on, which is causing the holdups.

Varsity
07-24-2019, 06:45 AM
The company would give us the pay raises tomorrow if the union accepted them only such as PSA and PDT. The union wants a bunch of other QOL improvements in there as well they have been going back and forth on, which is causing the holdups.

The company said "lets negotiate" and the union did their job.

Not their fault.

MEGAFUPM
07-24-2019, 06:56 AM
The company said "lets negotiate" and the union did their job.

Not their fault.

Didn't say it was their fault. That's just the current situation

NoValueAviator
07-24-2019, 07:26 AM
I think the holdup is that to an uninformed person (and there are plenty of those in management both here and at AA) looking at hourly rates it looks like we're asking to be paid better than PSA, but actually due to all the work rules soft pay etc. it's about the same, maybe slightly less.

All this is speculation though. We're decades behind PSA both on QOL and pay, so...

pitchattitude
07-24-2019, 08:06 AM
I think the holdup is that to an uninformed person (and there are plenty of those in management both here and at AA) looking at hourly rates it looks like we're asking to be paid better than PSA, but actually due to all the work rules soft pay etc. it's about the same, maybe slightly less.

All this is speculation though. We're decades behind PSA both on QOL and pay, so...
Supposedly that WAS the whole reason for the initial delay. The union bean counters were trying to make sure that the overall compensation was at least equal to what PSA was getting. They do recognize that dollar for dollar is not the same.

I still think the company is just trying to stall. Longer than can do so, the more they keep. I donít think they have any intention of back pay.

Tyrion
07-24-2019, 09:45 AM
So why didnít you go there in the first place?

Recruiter lied to me.

Actually, I didn't realize how bad the Envoy work rules are. You really have to be on the inside getting Envoy'd to truly appreciate the poor QOL.

HalyardJammer
07-24-2019, 10:25 AM
Recruiter lied to me.

Actually, I didn't realize how bad the Envoy work rules are. You really have to be on the inside getting Envoy'd to truly appreciate the poor QOL.

No offense, but I think you have to be willfully ignorant or lazy. People have been telling everyone who comes to these forums for the duration I've been at the airline the crap that we deal with. Then that one guy posted actual number differences in pay va while back.

The information is here.

havick206
07-24-2019, 11:20 AM
No offense, but I think you have to be willfully ignorant or lazy. People have been telling everyone who comes to these forums for the duration I've been at the airline the crap that we deal with. Then that one guy posted actual number differences in pay va while back.

The information is here.

Not everyone reads forums

Cyio
07-24-2019, 12:16 PM
The company would give us the pay raises tomorrow if the union accepted them only such as PSA and PDT. The union wants a bunch of other QOL improvements in there as well they have been going back and forth on, which is causing the holdups.

Not really. We canít accept rates exactly as PSA and Piedmont have them as it would cause some of our pilots to actually make less.

MD-11Loader
07-24-2019, 02:09 PM
Not really. We canít accept rates exactly as PSA and Piedmont have them as it would cause some of our pilots to actually make less.

Most people donít understand that. Banded versus blended are two very different pay schemes. Unfortunately we are on the losing side of that argument.

RawHide
07-29-2019, 07:31 AM
The companies original proposal was full of concessions that would pay for the rates no actual gain. So no the company did not offer just pay from the beginning.