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View Full Version : American hiring preferences


GLFaviator
08-16-2019, 02:53 PM
Hello,

I am currently flying 91 corporate for a fortune 50 company. I have previous 121 and 135 time and have had my app in with American for the last 8 years. It seems the only way to get an interview with American is either being military or through an Envoy/Piedmont/PSA flow. Does American hire 91/135 candidates? Thank you!


NovemberBravo
08-16-2019, 03:07 PM
Hello,

I am currently flying 91 corporate for a fortune 50 company. I have previous 121 and 135 time and have had my app in with American for the last 8 years. It seems the only way to get an interview with American is either being military or through an Envoy/Piedmont/PSA flow. Does American hire 91/135 candidates? Thank you!

I think you need to know someone. Every person I know that got hired off the street there already worked at a wholly owned or B their parents are pilots there. I donít even update that app anymore. I think they hired less than 40 civilian off the street this year...

GLFaviator
08-16-2019, 03:09 PM
Thats what I've gathered as well. Thank you


imthecaptainnow
08-16-2019, 03:30 PM
Other then money why are you looking to leave a Fortune 50 company?

dera
08-16-2019, 03:33 PM
Other then money why are you looking to leave a Fortune 50 company?

I'm guessing money, stability, schedule, benefits, quality of life, and so on.
Most Fortune 5xx jobs suck compared to legacy jobs. The few unicorn jobs are extremely competitive, and not that stable (case in point: GE).

diamnd15
08-16-2019, 03:52 PM
Networking, making new contacts, job fairs, volunteering, have to stand out someway

Iíve only received the video interview invite but am a current 91 pilot who flew 121 about 10 years ago

Cicada
08-16-2019, 04:05 PM
Hello,

I am currently flying 91 corporate for a fortune 50 company. I have previous 121 and 135 time and have had my app in with American for the last 8 years. It seems the only way to get an interview with American is either being military or through an Envoy/Piedmont/PSA flow. Does American hire 91/135 candidates? Thank you!

Do you have any letters of rec from an AA pilot on file? You need to. Several.You are also going to have to network, and make a contact with someone high up in management.
As was said, it's extremely difficult to get hired civilian outside the flow.

AAfng
08-16-2019, 07:14 PM
Tell your dad to get a job at American as a pilot then to recommend you. Seems to work for most.

UPTme
08-16-2019, 08:54 PM
Tell your dad to get a job at American as a pilot then to recommend you. Seems to work for most.

Where's that Morgan Freeman "he's right, you know" meme?

JulesWinfield
08-17-2019, 04:00 AM
I have to believe the military pipeline is drying up.

Battlinbear
08-17-2019, 04:14 AM
Friend was offered a interview and accepted the job outside of the flow and no military time. 16 LORS fwiw

AFTrainerGuy
08-17-2019, 06:00 AM
I have to believe the military pipeline is drying up.

The take rate on the bonus for staying in would say otherwise. Combine that with the programs being offered for rotor pilots to enter 121 and the only thing thatís gonna stop the exodus is a recession and hiring stopping.

Taco280AI
08-17-2019, 06:57 AM
Wish I knew. Flows and military jet pilots make up nearly 90% of their new hires. Working on my Master's, have continuing volunteer work, former military (not jet). No LORs, don't know any AA pilots.

Good luck

Cicada
08-17-2019, 08:48 AM
Wish I knew. Flows and military jet pilots make up nearly 90% of their new hires. Working on my Master's, have continuing volunteer work, former military (not jet). No LORs, don't know any AA pilots.

Good luck

Somewhere, someone you know, knows someone who does. You are going to have to get creative. Do you work for a regional? Most regional pilots run into lots of other airline pilots. That's how the networking comes in.

Bluetaildragger
08-18-2019, 07:22 AM
Tell your dad to get a job at American as a pilot then to recommend you. Seems to work for most.

While that is definitely a trend, there's much more to the story than that. Just having family member at AA isn't the end of the story, it involves a ton of networking and prep that many at the regionals write off as nepotism. Meanwhile, they devote zero time to their apps and networking while wondering why they haven't gotten a call. Some with parents at AA have even received the call and got turned down for one reason or another. Others never get the call at all.

NovemberBravo
08-18-2019, 09:17 AM
Networking aka mom and dad make their FOs write their kid letters of rec. Still nepotism no matter how you want to cut it.

In AAs defense they said if you want to work here go to a wholly owned.

PRS Guitars
08-18-2019, 11:45 AM
Networking aka mom and dad make their FOs write their kid letters of rec. Still nepotism no matter how you want to cut it.

In AAs defense they said if you want to work here go to a wholly owned.

Itís not nepotism that limits the OTS hiring of civilians. Itís the flow. I donít like it either, but Im not king. If I were, Id $h!t can the flow and hire 1/3 mil, 1/3 civ 121, and 1/3 civ 91/135. Itís not easy for line pilot parents to get their kid (or anyone they recommend) hired here. I wish it were, I wish they took pilot recommendations more seriously. Itís mostly HRís game now.

AAfng
08-18-2019, 11:46 AM
I have no heartburn with mom and dad getting JR a job. In my class there were a three guys I went "wow, they are really lucky to be here". One was a straight Part 135 guy, the other two were military but with barely 2K total hours. All three had either a dad or uncle advocating for them. I think it is cool but you cant use the Part 135 guy as an example of how it is possible because of the dad factor. Dont look at the 1900 hour military guy and say "oh I have enough time" unless you have an uncle as a CP.

Once again, I hope to get my kid on at low time also.

There is NO shortage of military guys to fill the off the street slots. On a side note. I knew NO ONE at American and had only 200hrs of jet time (none military) when hired. I am retired military with 8K hours. I was surprised I got called, I had kinda given up on AA ever calling and my application was a little out of date. Keep trying.

ps2sunvalley
08-18-2019, 01:10 PM
I have to believe the military pipeline is drying up.



Well I think the Air Force makes around 400 pilots a year, so the pool for all airlines should be around that, plus how many ever USN, USMC, and USA have which probably doubles that number. Just spitball here, no firm numbers.


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Beech Dude
08-18-2019, 01:22 PM
[QUOTE=ps2sunvalley;2872268]Well I think the Air Force makes around 400 pilots a year, so the pool for all airlines should be around that, plus how many ever USN, USMC, and USA have which probably doubles that number. Just spitball here, no firm numbers.

Its closer to 800-900/year. 15 classes a year, avg about 20 per class, across 3 bases. Rumor mill says they want to up classes to 30-35 studs.

kingdriver
08-18-2019, 02:03 PM
Would a 91/135 applicant with D.O./Chief Pilot/Check Airman experience as well as a sibling that is a captain stand a chance?

Varsity
08-18-2019, 02:23 PM
Would a 91/135 applicant with D.O./Chief Pilot/Check Airman experience as well as a sibling that is a captain stand a chance?

91/135 DO/CP? Probably not. 121, Maybe.

Gone Flying
08-18-2019, 04:40 PM
[QUOTE=ps2sunvalley;2872268]Well I think the Air Force makes around 400 pilots a year, so the pool for all airlines should be around that, plus how many ever USN, USMC, and USA have which probably doubles that number. Just spitball here, no firm numbers.

Its closer to 800-900/year. 15 classes a year, avg about 20 per class, across 3 bases. Rumor mill says they want to up classes to 30-35 studs.

APLA put out a video not too long ago explaining that we are not in a pilot shortage but a pay shortage. according to that about 2,000 pilots seperate from the military every year ( i assume this is fixed and rotor wing, all branches)

HiFlyer992
08-18-2019, 05:56 PM
[QUOTE=ps2sunvalley;2872268]Well I think the Air Force makes around 400 pilots a year, so the pool for all airlines should be around that, plus how many ever USN, USMC, and USA have which probably doubles that number. Just spitball here, no firm numbers.


The Air Force alone makes approximately 1200 per year and is looking to increase that number to 1500 in the near future.

AFTrainerGuy
08-18-2019, 06:28 PM
[QUOTE=ps2sunvalley;2872268]Well I think the Air Force makes around 400 pilots a year, so the pool for all airlines should be around that, plus how many ever USN, USMC, and USA have which probably doubles that number. Just spitball here, no firm numbers.


The Air Force alone makes approximately 1200 per year and is looking to increase that number to 1500 in the near future.

Ya... 400 is not even in ballpark

A quick internet search showed that at the end of the 18 Fiscal year the AF had 21,000 pilots alone. Also, 1500 is the target by 2022 and Iím pretty sure itís been over a 1,000 for a while. Take away Guard and Reserve who are already at the airlines, full-timers, those under commitments due to bonuses/UPT/school/etc, and those who will never go to the airlines for one reason or another, and Iíd still bet a few thousand are standing on the sidelines who could apply at any time. Add in fact every year hundreds reach the end of there commitments/reach retirement and I think itís a fallacy to believe that military hiring at the airlines is going to slow down or there is some set number in the pool. Probably the opposite as long as economy is good. In my very small bubble, even those who Had no desire to be a airline pilot are starting to stick their toes in the pool. And that is just the AF.

Just my opinion so take it for what itís worth

DilsonWic
08-19-2019, 05:43 AM
They want to be able to staff their regional flying, and using the flow to do just that. Maybe in a few years, if the economy holds up, there will be more hiring for OTS guys. Just the reality of it right now.

chrisreedrules
08-19-2019, 05:50 AM
They want to be able to staff their regional flying, and using the flow to do just that. Maybe in a few years, if the economy holds up, there will be more hiring for OTS guys. Just the reality of it right now.

This.

The flow isnít about filling seats at mainline. Itís about keeping costs at the regionals low and attracting a steady supply of applicants. There are a lot of savings to be realized by having WO regionals / flow programs.

It isnít as if they are giving their WO pilots a class at AA out of the kindness of their hearts. Itís purely a financial decision for them. While I personally donít have many big complaints about my time at the WO I work at, generally speaking our contracts / pay / QOL are behind what other regionals are paying. No one comes to and stays at the WOs because theyíre the best regionals. Weíre mostly here for the flow. If the flow goes away so will many of AAís WO regional pilots.

AZFlyer
08-19-2019, 08:41 AM
While that is definitely a trend, there's much more to the story than that. Just having family member at AA isn't the end of the story, it involves a ton of networking and prep that many at the regionals write off as nepotism. Meanwhile, they devote zero time to their apps and networking while wondering why they haven't gotten a call. Some with parents at AA have even received the call and got turned down for one reason or another. Others never get the call at all.
I personally know a handful of people who were hired at AA exactly because of mom/dad pulling strings for them, and said people would otherwise not have been even remotely close to competitive with the average civilian OTS hire.

More power to them mind you. It is what it is and I would take the same opportunity as well had I been in their shoes, but I can't ignore the details that I know about with regards to the circumstances some of these individuals were hired under and just pretend that they weren't effectively gifted their opportunity. Such is life.

chrisreedrules
08-19-2019, 11:38 AM
I personally know a handful of people who were hired at AA exactly because of mom/dad pulling strings for them, and said people would otherwise not have been even remotely close to competitive with the average civilian OTS hire.

More power to them mind you. It is what it is and I would take the same opportunity as well had I been in their shoes, but I can't ignore the details that I know about with regards to the circumstances some of these individuals were hired under and just pretend that they weren't effectively gifted their opportunity. Such is life.

And I know an LCA whoís dad was a former Chief at USAir. He had an interview with AA and also had a job offer from Delta at that time. Only place he ever really wanted to work was AA. You know what they basically told him in the interview? ďIf you want to go to AA you should wait to flow.Ē Spoiler alert he went to Delta.

AZFlyer
08-19-2019, 11:56 AM
And I know an LCA whoís dad was a former Chief at USAir. He had an interview with AA and also had a job offer from Delta at that time. Only place he ever really wanted to work was AA. You know what they basically told him in the interview? ďIf you want to go to AA you should wait to flow.Ē Spoiler alert he went to Delta.
Ah, I see the problem here. His dad shouldn't have been a former chief! :D

bababouey
08-19-2019, 12:22 PM
And I know an LCA whoís dad was a former Chief at USAir. He had an interview with AA and also had a job offer from Delta at that time. Only place he ever really wanted to work was AA. You know what they basically told him in the interview? ďIf you want to go to AA you should wait to flow.Ē Spoiler alert he went to Delta.



This is incredibly hard to believe and goes against everyone Iíve met in the interview department, and my own experience. We donít do much well, but we have the best interview process, donít try to trash that.


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bigtime209
08-19-2019, 12:33 PM
This is incredibly hard to believe and goes against everyone Iíve met in the interview department, and my own experience. We donít do much well, but we have the best interview process, donít try to trash that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I too find it extremely hard to believe. Iíve heard of recruiters at job fairs telling WO pilots basically ďyou have flow, youíll get here eventually.Ē But you donít make it to an actual interview without them wanting to hire you.

NovemberBravo
08-19-2019, 01:10 PM
I personally know a handful of people who were hired at AA exactly because of mom/dad pulling strings for them, and said people would otherwise not have been even remotely close to competitive with the average civilian OTS hire.

More power to them mind you. It is what it is and I would take the same opportunity as well had I been in their shoes, but I can't ignore the details that I know about with regards to the circumstances some of these individuals were hired under and just pretend that they weren't effectively gifted their opportunity. Such is life.

Exactly thatís just the game. I understand and would do the same. Just donít tell me you magically got on because of luck and your amazing networking skills.

Name User
08-19-2019, 04:32 PM
I am the first to admit I was hired at LUS because no one else really wanted to go there. My competition was not CKA, or space cadets, or Air Force One pilots. It was Joe sitting next to me in the crew room wanting to GTFO of the RJ rat race. Here's one for "team member average Joe".

Cicada
08-19-2019, 04:43 PM
I am the first to admit I was hired at LUS because no one else really wanted to go there. My competition was not CKA, or space cadets, or Air Force One pilots. It was Joe sitting next to me in the crew room wanting to GTFO of the RJ rat race. Here's one for "team member average Joe".

That was a great move by you.
It's a fact that AA makes an effort to hire sons and daughters of their pilots. They definitely acknowledge that. Although it rankles some, I think it's a nice idea to acknowledge their legacy pilots, and these hires have to meet the minimum. Some of the biggest objectors might someday agree if their sons or daughters are flying.
I did recently hear of an AA 787 CKA son, who happened to be a F-35 driver be rejected on the compatibility questionnaire. He was told to reapply in six months. He immediately went to Delta.

FlyyGuyy
08-19-2019, 04:47 PM
That was a great move by you.
It's a fact that AA makes an effort to hire sons and daughters of their pilots. They definitely acknowledge that. Although it rankles some, I think it's a nice idea to acknowledge their legacy pilots. Some of the biggest objectors might someday agree if their sons or daughters are flying.

25 internal recs, two family members with 35+ years at usairways. Never a peep. Ended up flowing.

Cicada
08-19-2019, 04:59 PM
25 internal recs, two family members with 35+ years at usairways. Never a peep. Ended up flowing.

That had to be frustrating. How many years from start to flow?

FlyyGuyy
08-19-2019, 05:15 PM
That had to be frustrating. How many years from start to flow?

It really wasn't bad. Frankly I hit the jackpot.
5 and a half years. Just wanted to share my experience.
Upset my parents more than anything. When they spoke to HR they were essentially told that they (hr) didn't care.

My experience in Aviation has always been to expect the worst case scenario and hope for the best. It's worked so far nothing has surprised me in a negative way so far.

PRS Guitars
08-19-2019, 05:31 PM
It's a fact that AA makes an effort to hire sons and daughters of their pilots. They definitely acknowledge that.

Really? Where is that acknowledged? I've heard the exact opposite from official channels...ie no preference for family or folks you've written LOR's for. It was a few years ago that I heard that statement though, so maybe its changed.

AAfng
08-19-2019, 06:33 PM
Really? Where is that acknowledged? I've heard the exact opposite from official channels...ie no preference for family or folks you've written LOR's for. It was a few years ago that I heard that statement though, so maybe its changed.

All I know is that as of early last year they had to given favorable treatment. There is no way a mid 20's Part 135 pilot with no other special skills would get hired unless his Dad was a CPT who got his app pulled. No way man.

wiz5422
08-19-2019, 07:07 PM
Had 2 in my class this year who had parents who fly or flew for AA. One was from Skywest, the other from Spirit.

Bluetaildragger
08-19-2019, 07:35 PM
Exactly thatís just the game. I understand and would do the same. Just donít tell me you magically got on because of luck and your amazing networking skills.

Anyone who doesnít acknowledge the fact that having a family member in the company helped them get where they are needs a reality check.

My point was simply that it isnít a given, as illustrated by the fact that many who donít put in the effort donít get the call. Or worse, get the call and donít get invited to class.

Al Czervik
08-19-2019, 10:38 PM
I am the first to admit I was hired at LUS because no one else really wanted to go there. My competition was not CKA, or space cadets, or Air Force One pilots. It was Joe sitting next to me in the crew room wanting to GTFO of the RJ rat race. Here's one for "team member average Joe".

Worked out pretty well, huh?

chrisreedrules
08-19-2019, 11:21 PM
This is incredibly hard to believe and goes against everyone Iíve met in the interview department, and my own experience. We donít do much well, but we have the best interview process, donít try to trash that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How is sharing one pilots experience trashing the interview process? The story is true. This was about 3 years ago now...

mainlineAF
08-20-2019, 03:42 AM
I am the first to admit I was hired at LUS because no one else really wanted to go there. My competition was not CKA, or space cadets, or Air Force One pilots. It was Joe sitting next to me in the crew room wanting to GTFO of the RJ rat race. Here's one for "team member average Joe".



I always lolíed @ the guys flying RJs for airways who didnít apply there. Like flying a 50 seat contract jet was a better idea than going to airways [emoji849][emoji849]

bababouey
08-20-2019, 04:24 AM
How is sharing one pilots experience trashing the interview process? The story is true. This was about 3 years ago now...



Because itís an extreme outlier if true, which I donít believe it is, whatís your motivation for posting this? I was hired from a wholly owned and the interviewers said ďweíre so glad we got you before Delta did,Ē I was in class 4 weeks later.


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symbian simian
08-20-2019, 10:18 AM
Because itís an extreme outlier if true, which I donít believe it is, whatís your motivation for posting this? I was hired from a wholly owned and the interviewers said ďweíre so glad we got you before Delta did,Ē I was in class 4 weeks later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

maybe you are the outlier?

symbian simian
08-20-2019, 10:19 AM
It really wasn't bad. Frankly I hit the jackpot.
5 and a half years. Just wanted to share my experience.
Upset my parents more than anything. When they spoke to HR they were essentially told that they (hr) didn't care.

My experience in Aviation has always been to expect the worst case scenario and hope for the best. It's worked so far nothing has surprised me in a negative way so far.

Pretty sure that is not the right attitude for APC. /S

450knotOffice
08-20-2019, 10:26 AM
Because itís an extreme outlier if true, which I donít believe it is, whatís your motivation for posting this? I was hired from a wholly owned and the interviewers said ďweíre so glad we got you before Delta did,Ē I was in class 4 weeks later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good for you.

I have a friend who's a captain at Skywest. He has about 6 LOR's from AA pilots. He's updated his apps after every trip for years. He's a former electrical engineer who worked for Boeing for a few years. He's been to the Job Fairs, including OBAP last month.

Guess what? He got a call from FedEx for an interview. He's ecstatic. I wrote a nice email to Recruitment the following week imploring them to call him for an interview, or risk losing him to FedEx.

Crickets. As I expected.

As someone else said here, no one in Recruitment cares about any pilot heading to any of our competitors.

As an aside, I have a very good friend who's a narrowbody captain here. His son flew for Envoy for maybe two years or so. Maybe less. He was called for an interview and hired this Spring. I'm super happy for him, but it just reinforces the fact that having a parent who's a captain here at AA carries HUGE weight.

AwkwardTurtle
08-20-2019, 05:35 PM
Good for you.

I have a friend who's a captain at Skywest. He has about 6 LOR's from AA pilots. He's updated his apps after every trip for years. He's a former electrical engineer who worked for Boeing for a few years. He's been to the Job Fairs, including OBAP last month.

Guess what? He got a call from FedEx for an interview. He's ecstatic. I wrote a nice email to Recruitment the following week imploring them to call him for an interview, or risk losing him to FedEx.

Crickets. As I expected.

As someone else said here, no one in Recruitment cares about any pilot heading to any of our competitors.

As an aside, I have a very good friend who's a narrowbody captain here. His son flew for Envoy for maybe two years or so. Maybe less. He was called for an interview and hired this Spring. I'm super happy for him, but it just reinforces the fact that having a parent who's a captain here at AA carries HUGE weight.

Another point of data for you. A friend who was also a SkyWest Capt doing C17 reserves; formerly an AA intern. He didnít get called for an interview until after he finished FedEx IOE in 2016.

Two FOs at SkyWest, neither had any PIC, but both had parents at AA, left SkyWest in 2013.

So not even an internship trumps parental pull!

Surprise
08-20-2019, 08:44 PM
I always lolíed @ the guys flying RJs for airways who didnít apply there. Like flying a 50 seat contract jet was a better idea than going to airways [emoji849][emoji849]

To be fair, it was a substantial pay cut to come to Airways back then. Ask me how I know. But, I was willing to play the long game and it turns out that LUS was a nice little side door into AA. Itís a shame itís so tough for civilian street guys now.

Name User
08-21-2019, 05:01 AM
To be fair, it was a substantial pay cut to come to Airways back then. Ask me how I know. But, I was willing to play the long game and it turns out that LUS was a nice little side door into AA. It’s a shame it’s so tough for civilian street guys now.

Yeah people applying in 2010/2011/2012/even 2013 took a risk. As a Capt on an RJ guys were making above the topped out FOs at Airways and if you hustled, as much or more than their Airbus Capts (remember back then upgrade was over 25 years).

I remember talking to someone in the CLT shared crew room, they lived in Dallas and had turned down an offer from Airways in 2012(?). They "didn't want to commute their whole life". Ha.

I knew a few who left for Airways in 2008 or maybe 2007 and were furloughed even.

For anyone single or married with a wife who had a good job it was a good risk to take, but there were many sole breadwinners I flew with in the RJ that couldn't foreseeably take that Airways job. The pay was abysmal.

mainlineAF
08-21-2019, 05:57 AM
Yeah people applying in 2010/2011/2012/even 2013 took a risk. As a Capt on an RJ guys were making above the topped out FOs at Airways and if you hustled, as much or more than their Airbus Capts (remember back then upgrade was over 25 years).

I remember talking to someone in the CLT shared crew room, they lived in Dallas and had turned down an offer from Airways in 2012(?). They "didn't want to commute their whole life". Ha.

I knew a few who left for Airways in 2008 or maybe 2007 and were furloughed even.

For anyone single or married with a wife who had a good job it was a good risk to take, but there were many sole breadwinners I flew with in the RJ that couldn't foreseeably take that Airways job. The pay was abysmal.



Should have clarified i meant the younger guys. Flew with many who were mid to late 20s and didnít apply to airways. That was just dumb.

Surprise
08-21-2019, 06:53 AM
For anyone single or married with a wife who had a good job...

Or a husband. Did you not complete your implicit bias training? :D

NovemberBravo
08-21-2019, 08:46 AM
Well I call this settled it would be great to see family hires on the pie chart at the end of the year.

Name User
08-21-2019, 08:50 AM
Or a husband. Did you not complete your implicit bias training? :D

Did you know you can use multiple iPads to complete DL modules as the same time?

I'm not saying I endorse it but I'm just saying I personally have my company iPad, my iPad, and my wife's. So, I mean, in theory, I could do three DL modules concurrently.

Also for those who commute to DFW you can get A1 passes to complete a module before a trip and go home A3 afterward...

symbian simian
08-23-2019, 01:16 PM
Or a husband. Did you not complete your implicit bias training? :D

He-now, just because he said wife doesn't mean he isn't a woman....

ERAUAV8TR
08-25-2019, 07:47 PM
He-now, just because he said wife doesn't mean he isn't a woman....

I know 5 females that got hired off the street recently. It is possible for some.