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View Full Version : Failed checkride


Suj490
09-02-2019, 01:39 PM
I just started my training and was told by someone that failing a check ride would make it much more difficult in getting hired with an airline later on. Just curious, how would an airline find out if you failed a check ride? Is there a database they can check? Or is it just based on the honor system if they ask you directly on an application or during an interview?
Thanks


pilotnicco
09-02-2019, 01:48 PM
I just started my training and was told by someone that failing a check ride would make it much more difficult in getting hired with an airline later on. Just curious, how would an airline find out if you failed a check ride? Is there a database they can check? Or is it just based on the honor system if they ask you directly on an application or during an interview?
Thanks

Yes, it will affect you later on in your career. These are considered FAA examinations. If you fail one if goes on your FAA record. A regional or LCC/ULCC may not impact you so much but the big 3 (big 4), it will for sure. If you lie to them about a checkride failure, they will check and terminate you for falsifying your record.

AboveAndBeyond
09-02-2019, 01:59 PM
If you have 1 failed check ride, you are probably ok. If you have 3 or 4...that's a different story.

Yes, there is a "database" and if you do lie about failed check rides, it will come up during your PRIA and background check.


Air Stang 7
09-02-2019, 02:07 PM
Your career is over. You'll only make it to airport janitor. Maybe they'll let you clean the plane if you're lucky.

rickair7777
09-02-2019, 02:50 PM
Anyone can fail one checkride, and your career will not be over, especially if it was at the entry level when you're (usually) young and not familiar with the ins and outs of aviation. General aviation (where you do your training) is also not very consistent on training and checking standards so comparing two people based on that doesn't really tell you much.

At the professional (turbine/121/135) level, training is more consistent (especially in 121) so they take that more seriously. But again if you fail your first airline training that's not the end of the world either, but you don't want to make a habit of that for sure. One of the landmark accidents in recent US aviation history involved a pilot who had failed training regularly throughout his career... that accident and the aftermath has shaped attitudes at the airlines.

Now with all that said there are some things you can do to minimize the risk of GA busts.

1. Over-prepare. Pretty obvious. The financial cost to your career of even one failed ride far outweigh any amount of time and effort you might have to put in to prepare.

2. Don't take rides you don't feel ready for, even if your instructor pushses.

3. Some schools tend to "push" students through. Do your research, don't attend a school like that. If you find yourself with a bad school or instructor, find a new one. Schools/instructors have absolutely ZERO bearing on your future employment, don't be intimidated by them.

4. Make sure any potential employer does not have a reputation for bad training. There are still a few out there, although most of the regionals have cleaned house.


If you do have a bust (probably 50% of professional pilots have one)...

CFI Initial has a very high failure rate. This will cause less concern than other rides. PPL also will not cause a lot of concerns if it's the only one.

You'll have to disclose that on airline applications. Don't lie, odds are high they'll find out from your FAA record.

One bust will probably just delay your interview call, could be months or years, but they simply prefer applicants with clean records, all else being equal.

More than 2-3 busts will seriously limit your options, many of the best employers will never call.

Most regionals are pretty tolerant of busts, you should be able to get a regional job unless you have a very high number of busts.

TiredSoul
09-02-2019, 03:08 PM
You have to see it this way, the further you get in your training or in your career the more experienced you get at taking checkrides and it can be expected that you are better able to recognize when you are and are NOT ready for a checkride.

Private
Instrument
Commercial Single Engine
Commercial Multi engine
CFI - initial
CFII
MEI
ATP - should be your 8th checkride.

Private, Instrument or CFI Initial failed can probably be overlooked.
Issue being that most airline applications start with an online process and the computer simply discards or second grades the applications that have one (or more) failed checkrides marked.

Bahamasflyer
09-02-2019, 05:06 PM
Anyone can fail one checkride, and your career will not be over, especially if it was at the entry level when you're (usually) young and not familiar with the ins and outs of aviation. General aviation (where you do your training) is also not very consistent on training and checking standards so comparing two people based on that doesn't really tell you much.

At the professional (turbine/121/135) level, training is more consistent (especially in 121) so they take that more seriously. But again if you fail your first airline training that's not the end of the world either, but you don't want to make a habit of that for sure. One of the landmark accidents in recent US aviation history involved a pilot who had failed training regularly throughout his career... that accident and the aftermath has shaped attitudes at the airlines.

Now with all that said there are some things you can do to minimize the risk of GA busts.

1. Over-prepare. Pretty obvious. The financial cost to your career of even one failed ride far outweigh any amount of time and effort you might have to put in to prepare.

2. Don't take rides you don't feel ready for, even if your instructor pushses.

3. Some schools tend to "push" students through. Do your research, don't attend a school like that. If you find yourself with a bad school or instructor, find a new one. Schools/instructors have absolutely ZERO bearing on your future employment, don't be intimidated by them.

4. Make sure any potential employer does not have a reputation for bad training. There are still a few out there, although most of the regionals have cleaned house.


If you do have a bust (probably 50% of professional pilots have one)...

CFI Initial has a very high failure rate. This will cause less concern than other rides. PPL also will not cause a lot of concerns if it's the only one.

You'll have to disclose that on airline applications. Don't lie, odds are high they'll find out from your FAA record.

One bust will probably just delay your interview call, could be months or years, but they simply prefer applicants with clean records, all else being equal.

More than 2-3 busts will seriously limit your options, many of the best employers will never call.

Most regionals are pretty tolerant of busts, you should be able to get a regional job unless you have a very high number of busts.

One thing I'll add is to do your homework on all of the DPE's in your area. Talk to people, get the gouge on him/her, etc. You'll easily and quickly find out which ones might pink you for smaller stuff, vs which ones will give you the benefit of the doubt for a "rough around the edges" maneuver, especially if all else goes well.

rickair7777
09-02-2019, 08:30 PM
One thing I'll add is to do your homework on all of the DPE's in your area. Talk to people, get the gouge on him/her, etc. You'll easily and quickly find out which ones might pink you for smaller stuff, vs which ones will give you the benefit of the doubt for a "rough around the edges" maneuver, especially if all else goes well.

Yeah, that too. Ideally a good school will manage that for you, but it's your career...

Mjm8710
09-03-2019, 05:28 PM
What about failing upgrade? I failed my oral exam but was told since I have the type it isnít really a ďcheckĒ same goes with the Fed ride..I was told if you fail the Fed ride it just shows up as extra OE on your record. Iíve had a clean record with checkrides but the oral and Fed ride did not go too hot. Still ended up upgrading but got two dings out of it.

High fail rate at the time with the upgrades when I went through

rickair7777
09-04-2019, 07:56 AM
What about failing upgrade? I failed my oral exam but was told since I have the type it isn’t really a “check” same goes with the Fed ride..I was told if you fail the Fed ride it just shows up as extra OE on your record. I’ve had a clean record with checkrides but the oral and Fed ride did not go too hot. Still ended up upgrading but got two dings out of it.

High fail rate at the time with the upgrades when I went through

I don't know if the oral bust would be on PRIA. Since you were typed there would not be an FAA pink slip.

A failed fed observation would not appear on PRIA. I don't think extra IOE appears, IIRC there would be one line for all of the IOE performed during upgrade. You would see something like this...

Initial Line Check Date
Initial Fed Observation Date (Examiner Name)
IOE Date 48:30 hours

Any extra IOE would just be part of the total. But a savvy reviewer might know how much IOE is normal at your airline. For regionals it's usually very close to the legal min, an extra 3-4 day trip would be a flag for sure.

Bottom line, an oral for a type you already have may not be PRIA reportable, and an upgrade Fed observation is definitely not PRIA reportable. Get a copy of your PRIA report from your current airline.

But that does not mean it's OK to lie to an airline, they ask "have you ever failed...", not "have you ever failed a PRIA reportable event".

If you lie and get caught (sometimes they can read between the lines) you will 100% lose the job offer, or if already employed 100% get fired. In the later case you'll slink back to the right seat of an RJ, never to be seen at a major again... getting fired for lying IS reportable on PRIA.

sflpilot
09-04-2019, 09:39 AM
Iím not sure about this one but for the people that did 141 training and took stage checks and an end of course check. Would that also be reportable?

rickair7777
09-04-2019, 09:58 AM
Iím not sure about this one but for the people that did 141 training and took stage checks and an end of course check. Would that also be reportable?

Reportable via PRIA? No at least not in the old days. I heard they were trying to include EOC checks in the new FAA database or PRIA, not sure where that stands. The big 141 flight schools pushed back hard on that, they make a lot of money by slipping pilots into the system without any OFFICIAL record of failures, it's a big selling point for them.

But regarding EOC ,if they ask the question on an application or at an interview, the conventional wisdom is to be honest. Show me your logbook and I can find where you got signed off, took an EOC check flight, logged it as "training", got a remedial flight or two, signed off again, and then passed the second attempt. If I can spot it, so can the pros.

Knowing you went to a 141 school, they might ask that very question at the interview... awkward if you didn't report the failure on the application.

But the consensus is that intermediate stage checks are not what they mean when they ask about failures. I would not report those, although ultimately it's the interviewer who decides what his question really meant. But I don't even remember if ever had an incomplete stage check, so that would be hard for me to answer.

FlyPurdue
09-04-2019, 10:06 AM
I failed two check rides, initial instrument and S/E commercial. These happened at a 61 school (guess which one :)). I always disclose my failures, and discuss the learnings...never been a problem. I do have a squeaky clean part 121 record...so far these are my only blemishes.

That being said, I recently used the FAA's new tool to lookup my own pilot records, and neither 'notice of disapproval' appears. I am obviously not going to change my story on my failures, but was wondering if this would look funny to the airline when they run my pilot background.

Thanks!

Mjm8710
09-04-2019, 10:48 AM
I don't know if the oral bust would be on PRIA. Since you were typed there would not be an FAA pink slip.

A failed fed observation would not appear on PRIA. I don't think extra IOE appears, IIRC there would be one line for all of the IOE performed during upgrade. You would see something like this...

Initial Line Check Date
Initial Fed Observation Date (Examiner Name)
IOE Date 48:30 hours

Any extra IOE would just be part of the total. But a savvy reviewer might know how much IOE is normal at your airline. For regionals it's usually very close to the legal min, an extra 3-4 day trip would be a flag for sure.

Bottom line, an oral for a type you already have may not be PRIA reportable, and an upgrade Fed observation is definitely not PRIA reportable. Get a copy of your PRIA report from your current airline.

But that does not mean it's OK to lie to an airline, they ask "have you ever failed...", not "have you ever failed a PRIA reportable event".

If you lie and get caught (sometimes they can read between the lines) you will 100% lose the job offer, or if already employed 100% get fired. In the later case you'll slink back to the right seat of an RJ, never to be seen at a major again... getting fired for lying IS reportable on PRIA.

Iíd never lie about it, but was just curious. I have them both listed on airlineapps, but have been wondering if Iíll ever get a call now that I received two busts out of it thatís all. Just been on the back of my mind thatís all. I know thereís nothing to do about it other than to be honest.

Thank you for taking the time to respond!

dera
09-04-2019, 11:36 AM
I don't know if the oral bust would be on PRIA. Since you were typed there would not be an FAA pink slip.

A failed fed observation would not appear on PRIA. I don't think extra IOE appears, IIRC there would be one line for all of the IOE performed during upgrade. You would see something like this...

Initial Line Check Date
Initial Fed Observation Date (Examiner Name)
IOE Date 48:30 hours

Any extra IOE would just be part of the total. But a savvy reviewer might know how much IOE is normal at your airline. For regionals it's usually very close to the legal min, an extra 3-4 day trip would be a flag for sure.

Bottom line, an oral for a type you already have may not be PRIA reportable, and an upgrade Fed observation is definitely not PRIA reportable. Get a copy of your PRIA report from your current airline.

But that does not mean it's OK to lie to an airline, they ask "have you ever failed...", not "have you ever failed a PRIA reportable event".

If you lie and get caught (sometimes they can read between the lines) you will 100% lose the job offer, or if already employed 100% get fired. In the later case you'll slink back to the right seat of an RJ, never to be seen at a major again... getting fired for lying IS reportable on PRIA.

I think we are getting a few things mixed up here.
PRIA is not just FAA records, it's also your previous airlines furnishing all training records.

Failed fed ride/oral/whatever part of an evaluation is 100% reportable in PRIA.

"(2) Records concerning qualifications, proficiency, or professional competence of the
individual, including comments and evaluations made by a check airman designated under
ß 121.411, ß 125.295, or ß 135.337. For example, documents that show the individualís
qualifications as instructor/evaluator, check airman, or examiner; and records of the individualís
proficiency checks (recurring checks for captain, first officer, or line checks). "

It's safe to assume that every single training/testing event when there's a check airman involved will be included in your PRIA package.

rickair7777
09-04-2019, 12:50 PM
I failed two check rides, initial instrument and S/E commercial. These happened at a 61 school (guess which one :)). I always disclose my failures, and discuss the learnings...never been a problem. I do have a squeaky clean part 121 record...so far these are my only blemishes.

That being said, I recently used the FAA's new tool to lookup my own pilot records, and neither 'notice of disapproval' appears. I am obviously not going to change my story on my failures, but was wondering if this would look funny to the airline when they run my pilot background.

Thanks!

The database is new and probably incomplete, especially for older stuff. Once the database becomes fully functional (next year I believe), assume that anything which enters your FAA record after that point will be included.

Airlines won't mind if you report something which is missing in the Db, they know how the gubmint works.

rickair7777
09-04-2019, 12:57 PM
I think we are getting a few things mixed up here.
PRIA is not just FAA records, it's also your previous airlines furnishing all training records.

Failed fed ride/oral/whatever part of an evaluation is 100% reportable in PRIA.

"(2) Records concerning qualifications, proficiency, or professional competence of the
individual, including comments and evaluations made by a check airman designated under
ß 121.411, ß 125.295, or ß 135.337. For example, documents that show the individual’s
qualifications as instructor/evaluator, check airman, or examiner; and records of the individual’s
proficiency checks (recurring checks for captain, first officer, or line checks). "

It's safe to assume that every single training/testing event when there's a check airman involved will be included in your PRIA package.

Yes, I know what PRIA is, not mixing anything up. PRIA is a process which pulls data from previous employers, the FAA, and the NDR.

I know from previous experience with training and PRIA records that...

Fed observation is NOT a checkride and is NOT reported via PRIA if "incomplete". It gets entered into PRIA only when completed, never when incomplete. Technically it is an observation of the training/checking process, so could be incomplete for reasons unrelated to applicant performance. In theory. In reality it's more of a line check of both applicant and check airman.

Not sure about a failed oral for a type you already have. I think no for PRIA, but if you completely failed the entire upgrade process that would go in PRIA. They also don't report if you have to repeat a sim session along the way either.

Whether you admit an incomplete Fed observation to an airline is up to you... but think about how you're going to respond at the interview if they ask "looks like your IOE was longer than what we're used to seeing. Did you have any problems with that?"

dera
09-04-2019, 02:50 PM
Yes, I know what PRIA is, not mixing anything up. PRIA is a process which pulls data from previous employers, the FAA, and the NDR.

I know from previous experience with training and PRIA records that...

Fed observation is NOT a checkride and is NOT reported via PRIA if "incomplete". It gets entered into PRIA only when completed, never when incomplete. Technically it is an observation of the training/checking process, so could be incomplete for reasons unrelated to applicant performance. In theory. In reality it's more of a line check of both applicant and check airman.

Not sure about a failed oral for a type you already have. I think no for PRIA, but if you completely failed the entire upgrade process that would go in PRIA. They also don't report if you have to repeat a sim session along the way either.

Whether you admit an incomplete Fed observation to an airline is up to you... but think about how you're going to respond at the interview if they ask "looks like your IOE was longer than what we're used to seeing. Did you have any problems with that?"

I was using inaccurate wording. By fed ride, I meant 121.440(b) line check which often is done with the 121.434(c)(1)(ii) fed ride.
If you unsat that, it will be in your PRIA.

If you have a failed event with a check airman, it does not matter what you call it, it will be in your PRIA. So if your failed oral was with a check airman, it's in your PRIA. PRIA is very clear about this.

By absolute minimum, any event you had with a check airman will be in your PRIA. The "qualifications, proficiency, or professional competence" leaves some leeway, but the "including comments and evaluations by a check airman" is clear.

My previous shop included every single simulator training report in the PRIA. Nothing prevents them from doing that.

rickair7777
09-04-2019, 06:01 PM
I was using inaccurate wording. By fed ride, I meant 121.440(b) line check which often is done with the 121.434(c)(1)(ii) fed ride.
If you unsat that, it will be in your PRIA.

If you have a failed event with a check airman, it does not matter what you call it, it will be in your PRIA. So if your failed oral was with a check airman, it's in your PRIA. PRIA is very clear about this.

The line check part is normally done on the leg prior to the Fed ride. Failing that would result in a PRIA entry like any other line check. But there is a workaround from the LCA perspective that I won't get into here.

The Fed ride is usually done immediately after the line check, near the end of IOE but can technically be done at any time during IOE. It's more about observing the LCA doing HIS job, but the LCA may need to require more IOE if that's what it takes. That's the intent.

dera
09-04-2019, 10:52 PM
The line check part is normally done on the leg prior to the Fed ride. Failing that would result in a PRIA entry like any other line check. But there is a workaround from the LCA perspective that I won't get into here.

The Fed ride is usually done immediately after the line check, near the end of IOE but can technically be done at any time during IOE. It's more about observing the LCA doing HIS job, but the LCA may need to require more IOE if that's what it takes. That's the intent.

I think I know the workaround you mean, it's not 100% kosher but we'll leave it at that.

I'm talking about what the letter of this law says. Your fed ride, if it results in more IOE, technically does go to your PRIA, because it includes "comments" by the check airman.

A failed oral, no matter if you have the type or not, most definitely is a PRIA event. Unless it's some pseudo-oral done by a company guy who is not a check airman. If it's with a check airman, it will be in your PRIA. PRIA has no carveouts for events with check airmen.

My main point is, and I know you agree with me, that you should never, ever lie in any application. Don't ever think "will this be in my PRIA" because the chances are it will be.

The act gives air carriers a broad spectrum of data they can provide. My previous shop included every single training event. Every sim session, everything. It was almost 100 pages of records and I was there for a year.

prayforwaves117
09-08-2019, 07:24 AM
....
But regarding EOC ,if they ask the question on an application or at an interview, the conventional wisdom is to be honest. Show me your logbook and I can find where you got signed off, took an EOC check flight, logged it as "training", got a remedial flight or two, signed off again, and then passed the second attempt. If I can spot it, so can the pros.

Knowing you went to a 141 school, they might ask that very question at the interview... awkward if you didn't report the failure on the application.

But the consensus is that intermediate stage checks are not what they mean when they ask about failures. I would not report those, although ultimately it's the interviewer who decides what his question really meant. But I don't even remember if ever had an incomplete stage check, so that would be hard for me to answer.

I attended a part 141 school without self-examining authority. We had to go through an EOC ride to be recommended for the checkride and the FAA checkride was with a DPE, at the mercy of DPE availability.

I havenít failed a stage check, progress check, EOC, phase check, or FAA checkride, (PPL SEL, IR, COM SEL, COM Multi addon). I do however, have flights occurring after the EOC, either because of a reposition to take the checkride at the DPEs airport, or because I might as well fly again if my ride isnít for a couple days. One of my EOC flights took place 3 weeks before my FAA checkride so there is a flight after that EOC.

I have all my school grades printed out, with the syllabus annotating which lessons are which, and with each stage check/eoc grade sheet printed out as well. The grade sheets show minimum passing grades for the oral and flight tasks as well as comments, and I donít have anything where I didnít meet the minimum required grade.

Once the EOC is completed, it closes out the course and any flights afterwards show up as review/remedial. For example, I have a review/remedial flight before my FAA checkride, then another remedial/review after passing the checkride due to a reposition lol.

Is printing out what I have enough to save face when they see my logbook and wonder why I have flights occurring after EOC? Would they ask for what I have or would they cross reference through their own sources so they donít think I fudged with the syllabus or grade sheets? Also, the cadet thing I applied for mentioned all stages of training including intermediate checks in like the middle of the course.

Thanks

rickair7777
09-09-2019, 06:26 AM
I attended a part 141 school without self-examining authority. We had to go through an EOC ride to be recommended for the checkride and the FAA checkride was with a DPE, at the mercy of DPE availability.

I haven’t failed a stage check, progress check, EOC, phase check, or FAA checkride, (PPL SEL, IR, COM SEL, COM Multi addon). I do however, have flights occurring after the EOC, either because of a reposition to take the checkride at the DPEs airport, or because I might as well fly again if my ride isn’t for a couple days. One of my EOC flights took place 3 weeks before my FAA checkride so there is a flight after that EOC.

I have all my school grades printed out, with the syllabus annotating which lessons are which, and with each stage check/eoc grade sheet printed out as well. The grade sheets show minimum passing grades for the oral and flight tasks as well as comments, and I don’t have anything where I didn’t meet the minimum required grade.

Once the EOC is completed, it closes out the course and any flights afterwards show up as review/remedial. For example, I have a review/remedial flight before my FAA checkride, then another remedial/review after passing the checkride due to a reposition lol.

Is printing out what I have enough to save face when they see my logbook and wonder why I have flights occurring after EOC? Would they ask for what I have or would they cross reference through their own sources so they don’t think I fudged with the syllabus or grade sheets? Also, the cadet thing I applied for mentioned all stages of training including intermediate checks in like the middle of the course.

Thanks

Yes, EOC followed by DPE ride is common for some 141 schools which don't exercise self-examining authority. I probably know which one you're talking about. Don't worry about your logbook, worst case they'll just ask you about it and you can you look them in the eye and tell the truth.

The guy who gets caught in a deception/omission at that moment will be a deer-in-the-headlights, and won't have a good explanation.

ThisIsMe17
09-09-2019, 02:47 PM
Reportable via PRIA? No at least not in the old days. I heard they were trying to include EOC checks in the new FAA database or PRIA, not sure where that stands. The big 141 flight schools pushed back hard on that, they make a lot of money by slipping pilots into the system without any OFFICIAL record of failures, it's a big selling point for them.

But regarding EOC ,if they ask the question on an application or at an interview, the conventional wisdom is to be honest. Show me your logbook and I can find where you got signed off, took an EOC check flight, logged it as "training", got a remedial flight or two, signed off again, and then passed the second attempt. If I can spot it, so can the pros.

Knowing you went to a 141 school, they might ask that very question at the interview... awkward if you didn't report the failure on the application.

But the consensus is that intermediate stage checks are not what they mean when they ask about failures. I would not report those, although ultimately it's the interviewer who decides what his question really meant. But I don't even remember if ever had an incomplete stage check, so that would be hard for me to answer.

What about a 141 school with examining authority? I know those EOC flights arenít PRIA reportable but Iíve been told to count that as a checkride since itís for a certificate.

Another thing is a 141 EOC flight that didnít have examining authority. Would an airline care about that? I failed 2x on one EOC flight but I passed my actual checkride first try with a DPE.

rickair7777
09-09-2019, 03:56 PM
What about a 141 school with examining authority? I know those EOC flights arenít PRIA reportable but Iíve been told to count that as a checkride since itís for a certificate.

Another thing is a 141 EOC flight that didnít have examining authority. Would an airline care about that? I failed 2x on one EOC flight but I passed my actual checkride first try with a DPE.

I answered this in your other post.

jake cutter
09-10-2019, 09:09 AM
Do 709 rides count against you, regardless of pass/fail? I assume some algorithms might punt it aside.

170driver
09-10-2019, 01:08 PM
I failed two check rides, initial instrument and S/E commercial. These happened at a 61 school (guess which one :)). I always disclose my failures, and discuss the learnings...never been a problem. I do have a squeaky clean part 121 record...so far these are my only blemishes.



That being said, I recently used the FAA's new tool to lookup my own pilot records, and neither 'notice of disapproval' appears. I am obviously not going to change my story on my failures, but was wondering if this would look funny to the airline when they run my pilot background.



Thanks!



Purdue Grad here as well. Failed my PVT, ME, and CFI. completely clean 121 record. 10 years between last fail, hopefully I will get a call one day. Need to become a check airman I think to move on to a legacy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Bahamasflyer
09-10-2019, 02:33 PM
Purdue Grad here as well. Failed my PVT, ME, and CFI. completely clean 121 record. 10 years between last fail, hopefully I will get a call one day. Need to become a check airman I think to move on to a legacy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

What about some of the LCC's like Spirit, Frontier or Allegiant? I'd think having 3 busts might actually help you w them since they'd know you won't be called as quickly by a legacy as someone with no failures.

How long since your last type rating or upgrade? Having a recent training event would definitely help too

rickair7777
09-10-2019, 02:34 PM
Do 709 rides count against you, regardless of pass/fail? I assume some algorithms might punt it aside.

In most cases there would be an underlying violation which led to a 709.

In the case of a CFI who got a 709 due to student actions/performance they would consider the underlying circumstances. Kind of like accident/incident might not be your fault at all.

But if there's a box to check for 709, that might filter your application to a lower priority, simply because it's more work for HR to adjudicate.

170driver
09-10-2019, 02:43 PM
What about some of the LCC's like Spirit, Frontier or Allegiant? I'd think having 3 busts might actually help you w them since they'd know you won't be called as quickly by a legacy as someone with no failures.



How long since your last type rating or upgrade? Having a recent training event would definitely help too



Upgrade about 2 years ago. Great QOL right now so not really wanting to give that up unless itís a legacy.


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170driver
09-10-2019, 02:46 PM
Upgraded about 2 years ago. Great QOL right now so not really wanting to give that up unless itís a legacy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Bahamasflyer
09-10-2019, 05:11 PM
Upgrade about 2 years ago. Great QOL right now so not really wanting to give that up unless itís a legacy.


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Ah ok. Too early to be concerned since most (civilian) guys who get called by the legacies probably have somewhere around 2-3k PIC, possibly more. Just make sure to hit the job fair circuit, update after every trip and keep after that LCA slot.

Of course everyone knows some FO who got called sometime without PIC, but that's very very rare.

molitvic13
09-16-2019, 02:37 AM
Go to Mesa. They hire anyone and everyone. Thatís what theyíre known for right? 😂

170driver
09-16-2019, 12:16 PM
Ah ok. Too early to be concerned since most (civilian) guys who get called by the legacies probably have somewhere around 2-3k PIC, possibly more. Just make sure to hit the job fair circuit, update after every trip and keep after that LCA slot.



Of course everyone knows some FO who got called sometime without PIC, but that's very very rare.



Yep, good advice. Stay the course and keep trying to improve myself. Thanks.


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