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View Full Version : 100 in 30/RFO


magic rat
09-06-2019, 06:37 AM
Greetings,
New to 777, trying to make sure I don't get removed from a trip in bidding month to month for 100/30 violation.
My question is w/r/t block hours while RFO and the 100/30 rule...does only 2/3 of the trip block go towards the 100/30 tally?

Thanks in advance!


Nightflyer
09-06-2019, 09:41 AM
Many, many years ago, I had some problems with 100/30. I asked the union to ask the company to add a question to the bid. "If you have a 100/30 issue, would you like to default to your next bid choice?" I wanted the question added to the list of questions you answer when you bid. This would save people who might have an entire line dropped during a vacation month, when they needed to burn vacation before the end of the year so they didn't lose it.

This was before the last contract, and I brought it up to the NC, and many others. Nothing changed. I couldn't believe that such a simple solution to a problem faced by many crew members would be rejected.

This ended up being one of the many reasons I voted no.

This could be fixed, and easily, without waiting for the next contract.

All it takes is someone to do the right thing.

magic rat
09-06-2019, 01:04 PM
Many, many years ago, I had some problems with 100/30. I asked the union to ask the company to add a question to the bid. "If you have a 100/30 issue, would you like to default to your next bid choice?" I wanted the question added to the list of questions you answer when you bid. This would save people who might have an entire line dropped during a vacation month, when they needed to burn vacation before the end of the year so they didn't lose it.

This was before the last contract, and I brought it up to the NC, and many others. Nothing changed. I couldn't believe that such a simple solution to a problem faced by many crew members would be rejected.

This ended up being one of the many reasons I voted no.

This could be fixed, and easily, without waiting for the next contract.

All it takes is someone to do the right thing.

That was a great idea, but do you have the answer to my question?:confused:


The Walrus
09-06-2019, 01:43 PM
If you only ask for 2/3 of the block over pay, then you should be good.

It's all of the tube time no matter which seat you occupy.😣😣

magic rat
09-06-2019, 02:04 PM
If you only ask for 2/3 of the block over pay, then you should be good.

It's all of the tube time no matter which seat you occupy.😣😣

Walrus, I apologize, but (1) what do you mean by the first sentence? and (2) so RFO block time trip is treated as 100% block time regardless?

The Walrus
09-06-2019, 02:54 PM
I was being a smart ass. Point is, if you are a required crewmember on the flight, the Faa counts it.

Adlerdriver
09-06-2019, 04:33 PM
Greetings,
New to 777, trying to make sure I don't get removed from a trip in bidding month to month for 100/30 violation.
My question is w/r/t block hours while RFO and the 100/30 rule...does only 2/3 of the trip block go towards the 100/30 tally?

Thanks in advance!
Rat,
Iím not sure if this will make a difference in your situation, but a few things to know:
W/r/t the 100 hour limit, the limit is a calendar month, not 30 consecutive days.
The 100 hour limit only applies if you operate on a 2-pilot crew during that month.
As an RFO operating exclusively on augmented crews, your limit is 120 hours in 30 consecutive days.

Nightflyer
09-06-2019, 07:57 PM
That was a great idea, but do you have the answer to my question?:confused:

No, I am sorry, I don't.

But if my suggestion were implemented, your question would be moot.

magic rat
09-06-2019, 09:15 PM
Rat,
Iím not sure if this will make a difference in your situation, but a few things to know:
W/r/t the 100 hour limit, the limit is a calendar month, not 30 consecutive days.
The 100 hour limit only applies if you operate on a 2-pilot crew during that month.
As an RFO operating exclusively on augmented crews, your limit is 120 hours in 30 consecutive days.

Thanks, that does clear it up, I was wrong in my interpretation. You are correct (Google agrees)! The 30 in 7 is consecutive, but the 100 in 30 is calendar month like you pointed out. :)

kronan
09-07-2019, 04:19 AM
Do need to pay attention when you bid, since our bidmonths straddle calendar months.
the 100 in 30 has bit more than one International flyer.

cliffnd
09-07-2019, 04:34 AM
Greetings,

New to 777, trying to make sure I don't get removed from a trip in bidding month to month for 100/30 violation.

My question is w/r/t block hours while RFO and the 100/30 rule...does only 2/3 of the trip block go towards the 100/30 tally?



Thanks in advance!



I believe the 2/3 rules only apply to meeting consolidating requirements.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nightflyer
09-07-2019, 06:17 AM
Do need to pay attention when you bid, since our bidmonths straddle calendar months.
the 100 in 30 has bit more than one International flyer.

Which is why the union and the company should work together to fix it in order to help the international crew members that are affected.

Birdsmash
09-07-2019, 07:36 PM
How often does FDX fly the 777 with only a crew of 2? I assume ANC/MEM when they make the stopover?

Adlerdriver
09-07-2019, 08:46 PM
How often does FDX fly the 777 with only a crew of 2? I assume ANC/MEM when they make the stopover?Much more than it sounds like youíre aware of:
EWR out and backs from MEM
MEM-IND
MEM-OAK
OAK-SEA
SEA-ANC
LAX-HNL + reverse
CDG-CGN + rev
CGN-CDG-MUC-FRA
DXB-MXP
DXB-SIN
DXB-HKG
DXB-CDG
DXB-BOM
BOM-CAN
HKG-KIX
KIX-NRT
KIX-CAN
ICN-KIX
ICN-CAN + rev
CAN-DEL + rev
DEL-DXB + rev
NRT-TPE
TPE-KIX,
SIN-KIX
CAN-NRT
CAN-SIN
SIN-SYD
PVG-NRT + rev
PVG-KIX + rev
NRT-ICN
ICN-SZX
SZX-KIX
ICN-HKG
NRT-PEK, PEK-PVG
LGG-DXB
LGG-MUC
Thereís probably more but thatís a good sample.

appDude
09-08-2019, 03:47 AM
Previous posts have said 100/30 is calendar month.
This may or may not be true.
Sometimes it is 30 consecutive days.
The FARs are very hard to apply to FedEx cuz we fly a very mixed schedule of 2 3 and 4 man cockpit and domestic and international.
Very often in the same month.
They seem to be crafted around the PAX guys that do ATL MXP ATL 4 times that month and then ATL LHR ATL 4 times the next month.
In the past, I have asked the union and company scheduling for some specifics but can get none.
What is a calendar day? Local? Zulu? 0130 to 0129 LBD?

some snippets of some POSSIBLE applicable FARs:
******************************************
ß 121.471 Flight time limitations and rest requirements: All flight crewmembers.
(1) 1,000 hours in any calendar year;
(2) 100 hours in any calendar month;
(3) 30 hours in any 7 consecutive days;

Flag
121.481 - Flight time limitations: One or two pilot crews.
This subpart prescribes flight time limitations and rest requirements for flag all-cargo operations....

ß 121.481 - Flight time limitations: One or two pilot crews.
(d) No pilot may fly more than 32 hours during any seven consecutive days, and each pilot must be relieved from all duty for at least 24 consecutive hours at least once during any seven consecutive days.
(e) No pilot may fly as a member of a crew more than 100 hours during any one calendar month.
(f) No pilot may fly as a member of a crew more than 1,000 hours during any 12-calendar-month period.

ß 121.483 - Flight time limitations: Two pilots and one additional flight crewmember.
(c) No pilot may fly as a flight crewmember more than -
(1) 120 hours during any 30 consecutive days;
(2) 300 hours during any 90 consecutive days; or
(3) 1,000 hours during any 12-calendar-month period.

ß 121.487 - Flight time limitations: Pilots not regularly assigned.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (e) of this section, a pilot who is not regularly assigned as a flight crewmember for an entire calendar month under ß 121.483 or 121.485 may not fly more than 100 hours in any 30 consecutive days.
***************************************
extremely confusing to apply to our schedules

Birdsmash
09-08-2019, 04:14 AM
Much more than it sounds like youíre aware of:
EWR out and backs from MEM
MEM-IND
MEM-OAK
OAK-SEA
SEA-ANC
LAX-HNL + reverse
CDG-CGN + rev
CGN-CDG-MUC-FRA
DXB-MXP
DXB-SIN
DXB-HKG
DXB-CDG
DXB-BOM
BOM-CAN
HKG-KIX
KIX-NRT
KIX-CAN
ICN-KIX
ICN-CAN + rev
CAN-DEL + rev
DEL-DXB + rev
NRT-TPE
TPE-KIX,
SIN-KIX
CAN-NRT
CAN-SIN
SIN-SYD
PVG-NRT + rev
PVG-KIX + rev
NRT-ICN
ICN-SZX
SZX-KIX
ICN-HKG
NRT-PEK, PEK-PVG
LGG-DXB
LGG-MUC
Thereís probably more but thatís a good sample.

Wow! I knew there had to be more but not that many. Sorry to wear out your typing fingers. Haha

FedupFlex
09-08-2019, 05:53 AM
Greetings,
New to 777, trying to make sure I don't get removed from a trip in bidding month to month for 100/30 violation.
My question is w/r/t block hours while RFO and the 100/30 rule...does only 2/3 of the trip block go towards the 100/30 tally?

Thanks in advance!

Under FAR121 Flag/Domestic rules, The 100-in-30 applies to any pilot regardless of assigned crew position, and it is not prorated (as in Consolidation). The 30 days are a rolling 30, not calendar or bid period. Be aware though, CRS may remove you from that juicy trip (or nasty trip if you are strategically bidding) after the bid award if you are projected to exceed 100-in-30.

Adlerdriver
09-08-2019, 08:52 AM
Under FAR121 Flag/Domestic rules, The 100-in-30 applies to any pilot regardless of assigned crew position, and it is not prorated (as in Consolidation). The 30 days are a rolling 30, not calendar or bid period. Be aware though, CRS may remove you from that juicy trip (or nasty trip if you are strategically bidding) after the bid award if you are projected to exceed 100-in-30.Where do see this? :confused: FARs Appdude posted, while potentially difficult to interpret, make a very clear distinction between 2-pilot crews and RFOs on augmented crews. Iíve worked under Flag and Supp rules and your crew position does make a difference to which limit applies (100 vs 120) and calendar vs 30 day rolling.

Timeoff2fish
09-09-2019, 04:10 PM
I emailed crew planning about this exact issue.

This is the response:

"The FLAG/DOM rules are as follows:

1. 100 hours in a month if you are assigned all of the time as part of a two man crew (121.481).

2. 100 hours in 30 consecutive days if you are assigned as part of a two, three, or four man crew (121.487).

3. 120 hours in 30 consecutive days if you are assigned exclusively to a three and four man crew (121.483).

Be aware that we still have segments that operate under Supplemental rules. If a segment operates under Supplemental rules, 100 hours in 30 consecutive days apply (121.503), and 120 hours in 30 days apply if assigned exclusively to a three or four man crew (121.521)"

That is the goods.

So the real hitch is when you fly a combination of trips that are 2, 3, and 4 man crew segments. 121.487 is the most restrictive (and also the most difficult to avoid as it takes some ciphering) with a 100 hour limit in 30 consecutive rolling days. So buyer beware if you fly a combination of FO and RFO trips.

Also note when crew planning uses the word "month" that should mean a calendar month as defined by the FAA, not a bid month. These are two different things that could become a problem with carryover and five week bid months.

It sure would be nice to have a way to bid around this. BidX Mobile has a "Check block in 30" option but even PH says it is not bulletproof. The word on the street is that the company uses a rolling 95 hours in 30 days (for 2,3, and 4 man crewed trips) during bid processing to determine legality so that is the number I use.

YMMV.

Nightflyer
09-09-2019, 10:18 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Timeoff.

So, if they put my question into the bid, "If you have a 100 in 30 or 120 in 30 issue, would you like to default to your next bid line?", wouldn't that solve the problem?

If you select yes, you don't have to worry about it anymore.

If you select no, you might have your entire bid month dropped, which might be your preference in some cases.

It sure would be nice if the union would take action on this and find a solution.

appDude
09-11-2019, 08:10 AM
And FxCal/FxBidLite has a helper for 100 in 30, but as with others, not a for sure thing.

Even if it was, my past research with company is they can pull you from a trip at less than 100.
Example: your trip ends up last two legs are CDG HKG and HKG MEM.
If you are projected to be in HKG with the HKG MEM leg that would put you at say 98 or 99, they might preemptive pull you, cuz they want to protect the freight and not have you overfly by an hour on the way to HKG and not be legal to operate HKG MEM. This is a soft number that is not published and likely changes by manning, seasonal weather, etc.

dspilot
09-11-2019, 11:12 AM
Does anyone know if there is anywhere that we can actually look at our rolling 30 days? I got stung by a 100 in 30 conflict for Oct. and got a 51 hour trip dropped, and would like to know where I'm at when the makeup bid opens....

magic rat
09-12-2019, 11:25 AM
Does anyone know if there is anywhere that we can actually look at our rolling 30 days? I got stung by a 100 in 30 conflict for Oct. and got a 51 hour trip dropped, and would like to know where I'm at when the makeup bid opens....

Crew Information - Operating Experience Summary - 30 Day Summary
It looks like it tallies the previous 30 days rolling...