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View Full Version : #Sorryfortheconfusion


ERAUAV8TR
10-03-2019, 12:46 PM
#Sorryfortheconfusion


pitchattitude
10-03-2019, 01:02 PM
#Sorryfortheconfusion
Yeah, sorry the company is confused, not that you werenít paid.

UncreativeUser
10-03-2019, 01:13 PM
We got the full amount now can we stop b*******g please?


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HalyardJammer
10-03-2019, 01:14 PM
We got the full amount now can we stop b*******g please?


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No.
Filler.

highfarfast
10-03-2019, 01:25 PM
We got the full amount now can we stop b*******g please?


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Well, given that we're getting the full amount until after Sept 30th, that full amount would be 20 hours per month at the new rate. Sounds like we're still not getting the full amount.

NoValueAviator
10-03-2019, 01:33 PM
Well, given that we're getting the full amount until after Sept 30th, that full amount would be 20 hours per month at the new rate. Sounds like we're still not getting the full amount.

Yeeeeeeeuuuuup

buddies8
10-03-2019, 01:44 PM
Hey but the flow through got all their money September 11. While we wait.

Cyio
10-03-2019, 02:10 PM
We got the full amount now can we stop b*******g please?


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You are such a company apologist.

havick206
10-03-2019, 02:45 PM
We got the full amount now can we stop b*******g please?


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Submitting a grievance in DTS for the company not holding up their end (deliberately or due to incompetence) is not b******g.

Chato
10-03-2019, 02:59 PM
We got the full amount now can we stop b*******g please?


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I am a line pilot and I did not get the full amount.

bigtime209
10-03-2019, 06:44 PM
We got the full amount now can we stop b*******g please?


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Ummmm....I don't think any Envoy pilot has gotten the full amount yet. Unless you know something that the rest of the pilot group doesn't know.

UncreativeUser
10-04-2019, 06:55 AM
You are such a company apologist.



Are you a protected pilot?


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Cyio
10-04-2019, 07:01 AM
Are you a protected pilot?


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Why would that matter?

UncreativeUser
10-07-2019, 09:36 PM
Why would that matter?



Cause your group is the only ones on here constantly complaining. That group is the one the messed up the AIP because yíall banked up your sick time and wanted to auto cash out costing AAG like 750k a month (roughly, thatís not even including the new rates so it was probably even more than that).

So why would a company want to be quick to pay a pilot group so quickly when itís been nothing but bad blood since 2014. That group remains jaded and wants to stick it to the company one last time before they move on, right? We need to move on. Like honestly if you ran a company would you really be so thrilled to pay your employees after you found out they were scheming to take more from you before they left your company? I wouldnít be so thrilled either.

Lots of pilots Iíve talked to on the line believe that when the protected group flows a lot of positive changes are coming our way because there will be a minimal amount of bad blood with new representation. Case in point would be the ORD LEC, those guys went about the AIP professionally and stood their ground to get the AIP back and the rest (mostly runner by the protected pilots) sold out to get more flow so they can get get their friends in the 10/11 group even faster.

Itís always the protected pilots that come on here and tell everyone to stay away when in reality your hurting the newer pilot group, which is sad because I believe that originally the protected pilots really wanted to help but lost sight in and wanted to get out more than ever because they were once promised a quick flow, but things change when a merger happens so I think itís important to see things from both ends instead of just blaming the company all the time which hurts recruitment on here which hurts the newer pilot group.



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moon
10-07-2019, 09:45 PM
Cause your group is the only ones on here constantly complaining. That group is the one the messed up the AIP because yíall banked up your sick time and wanted to auto cash out costing AAG like 750k a month (roughly, thatís not even including the new rates so it was probably even more than that).

So why would a company want to be quick to pay a pilot group so quickly when itís been nothing but bad blood since 2014. That group remains jaded and wants to stick it to the company one last time before they move on, right? We need to move on. Like honestly if you ran a company would you really be so thrilled to pay your employees after you found out they were scheming to take more from you before they left your company? I wouldnít be so thrilled either.

Lots of pilots Iíve talked to on the line believe that when the protected group flows a lot of positive changes are coming our way because there will be a minimal amount of bad blood with new representation. Case in point would be the ORD LEC, those guys went about the AIP professionally and stood their ground to get the AIP back and the rest (mostly runner by the protected pilots) sold out to get more flow so they can get get their friends in the 10/11 group even faster.

Itís always the protected pilots that come on here and tell everyone to stay away when in reality your hurting the newer pilot group, which is sad because I believe that originally the protected pilots really wanted to help but lost sight in and wanted to get out more than ever because they were once promised a quick flow, but things change when a merger happens so I think itís important to see things from both ends instead of just blaming the company all the time which hurts recruitment on here which hurts the newer pilot group.



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Hahahaha banking sick time? No one banked sick time thinking it was going to get paid out one day. Just saying.

MD-11Loader
10-08-2019, 03:44 AM
Cause your group is the only ones on here constantly complaining. That group is the one the messed up the AIP because yíall banked up your sick time and wanted to auto cash out costing AAG like 750k a month (roughly, thatís not even including the new rates so it was probably even more than that).

So why would a company want to be quick to pay a pilot group so quickly when itís been nothing but bad blood since 2014. That group remains jaded and wants to stick it to the company one last time before they move on, right? We need to move on. Like honestly if you ran a company would you really be so thrilled to pay your employees after you found out they were scheming to take more from you before they left your company? I wouldnít be so thrilled either.

Lots of pilots Iíve talked to on the line believe that when the protected group flows a lot of positive changes are coming our way because there will be a minimal amount of bad blood with new representation. Case in point would be the ORD LEC, those guys went about the AIP professionally and stood their ground to get the AIP back and the rest (mostly runner by the protected pilots) sold out to get more flow so they can get get their friends in the 10/11 group even faster.

Itís always the protected pilots that come on here and tell everyone to stay away when in reality your hurting the newer pilot group, which is sad because I believe that originally the protected pilots really wanted to help but lost sight in and wanted to get out more than ever because they were once promised a quick flow, but things change when a merger happens so I think itís important to see things from both ends instead of just blaming the company all the time which hurts recruitment on here which hurts the newer pilot group.



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For the record, four members of the MEC at the time of the vote were PPís/lifers. The 83, 114, 133 Chairman and 121 Vice Chair, of which 114 is a lifer, 83 is also a lifer and retiring, 121 flows tomorrow, and 133 flows in November. The rest of the MEC is made up of 2 L10-11ís (126 CA rep, and 83 FO rep) who flow in the first quarter of 2019, the rest are all 2016 or later hires. ORD holds their interim election next week, MIA is currently taking nominations for their full term elections, and NYC is finishing their election for the completion of the terms that happened in 2017 when the base reopened. Needless to say, by the second quarter of 2019 the MEC will look tremendously different. Hopefully the departing reps are all replaced with men and women who are engaged rather than seat fillers who arenít worried about the good of the pilots as a whole.

RawHide
10-08-2019, 03:44 AM
You also realize that only 2 reps are protected pilots and one is in ORD

LineUpAndPay
10-08-2019, 04:46 AM
Cause your group is the only ones on here constantly complaining. That group is the one the messed up the AIP because yíall banked up your sick time and wanted to auto cash out costing AAG like 750k a month (roughly, thatís not even including the new rates so it was probably even more than that).

So why would a company want to be quick to pay a pilot group so quickly when itís been nothing but bad blood since 2014. That group remains jaded and wants to stick it to the company one last time before they move on, right? We need to move on. Like honestly if you ran a company would you really be so thrilled to pay your employees after you found out they were scheming to take more from you before they left your company? I wouldnít be so thrilled either.

Lots of pilots Iíve talked to on the line believe that when the protected group flows a lot of positive changes are coming our way because there will be a minimal amount of bad blood with new representation. Case in point would be the ORD LEC, those guys went about the AIP professionally and stood their ground to get the AIP back and the rest (mostly runner by the protected pilots) sold out to get more flow so they can get get their friends in the 10/11 group even faster.

Itís always the protected pilots that come on here and tell everyone to stay away when in reality your hurting the newer pilot group, which is sad because I believe that originally the protected pilots really wanted to help but lost sight in and wanted to get out more than ever because they were once promised a quick flow, but things change when a merger happens so I think itís important to see things from both ends instead of just blaming the company all the time which hurts recruitment on here which hurts the newer pilot group.



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ďA lot of good people are saying...Ē
ďLots of Pilots Iíve talked to...Ē

When you have to lead off statements like that, you know itís not true and being made up on the spot. No one is saying that when the PP is gone that labor relations are going to get better.

NoValueAviator
10-08-2019, 05:01 AM
The company makes their hatred for us clear from day one in every possible way, and reminds us regularly. Relations will continue to worsen until AA cleans house in Irving.

Itís not denying commuter hotels for no reason after a long day of flying, staffing seats ineptly and subjecting pilots to JM/JP instead of just paying CC, or siccing lawyers on every LOA to tear it apart and undermine the intent of the agreements to the companyís benefit. Itís the general atmosphere of contempt. You are not appreciated, you are the enemy. Nobody has your back around here except the guy in the other seat. Everyone else is trying to take you down. With how exhausting & stressful this job can sometimes be, itís incredibly demoralizing.

Cyio
10-08-2019, 05:02 AM
Cause your group is the only ones on here constantly complaining. That group is the one the messed up the AIP because yíall banked up your sick time and wanted to auto cash out costing AAG like 750k a month (roughly, thatís not even including the new rates so it was probably even more than that).

So why would a company want to be quick to pay a pilot group so quickly when itís been nothing but bad blood since 2014. That group remains jaded and wants to stick it to the company one last time before they move on, right? We need to move on. Like honestly if you ran a company would you really be so thrilled to pay your employees after you found out they were scheming to take more from you before they left your company? I wouldnít be so thrilled either.

Lots of pilots Iíve talked to on the line believe that when the protected group flows a lot of positive changes are coming our way because there will be a minimal amount of bad blood with new representation. Case in point would be the ORD LEC, those guys went about the AIP professionally and stood their ground to get the AIP back and the rest (mostly runner by the protected pilots) sold out to get more flow so they can get get their friends in the 10/11 group even faster.

Itís always the protected pilots that come on here and tell everyone to stay away when in reality your hurting the newer pilot group, which is sad because I believe that originally the protected pilots really wanted to help but lost sight in and wanted to get out more than ever because they were once promised a quick flow, but things change when a merger happens so I think itís important to see things from both ends instead of just blaming the company all the time which hurts recruitment on here which hurts the newer pilot group.



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No, I am NOT a protected pilot so I guess your whole theory goes out the window. Second, as others have stated, we are not really represented by all PPís. The PPís are jaded towards this company for good reason, so let that sink in for a minute. What makes you think the company isnít just waiting for all the experience to leave and then really turn the screws? I hope not of course but for you to be so naive and just blindly say ď let it go or move onĒ is a tad ignorant to the history here.

Iím not even going to waste my time with the rest because others already have or it simply isnít worth my time.

You again show your need to defend this company despite their actions.

highfarfast
10-08-2019, 05:48 AM
Cause your group is the only ones on here constantly complaining. That group is the one the messed up the AIP because yíall banked up your sick time and wanted to auto cash out costing AAG like 750k a month (roughly, thatís not even including the new rates so it was probably even more than that).

So why would a company want to be quick to pay a pilot group so quickly when itís been nothing but bad blood since 2014. That group remains jaded and wants to stick it to the company one last time before they move on, right? We need to move on. Like honestly if you ran a company would you really be so thrilled to pay your employees after you found out they were scheming to take more from you before they left your company? I wouldnít be so thrilled either.

Lots of pilots Iíve talked to on the line believe that when the protected group flows a lot of positive changes are coming our way because there will be a minimal amount of bad blood with new representation. Case in point would be the ORD LEC, those guys went about the AIP professionally and stood their ground to get the AIP back and the rest (mostly runner by the protected pilots) sold out to get more flow so they can get get their friends in the 10/11 group even faster.

Itís always the protected pilots that come on here and tell everyone to stay away when in reality your hurting the newer pilot group, which is sad because I believe that originally the protected pilots really wanted to help but lost sight in and wanted to get out more than ever because they were once promised a quick flow, but things change when a merger happens so I think itís important to see things from both ends instead of just blaming the company all the time which hurts recruitment on here which hurts the newer pilot group.



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There is so much stupid in this post I don't even know what to say.

Cujo665
10-08-2019, 07:32 AM
Cause your group is the only ones on here constantly complaining. That group is the one the messed up the AIP because y’all banked up your sick time and wanted to auto cash out costing AAG like 750k a month (roughly, that’s not even including the new rates so it was probably even more than that).

So why would a company want to be quick to pay a pilot group so quickly when it’s been nothing but bad blood since 2014. That group remains jaded and wants to stick it to the company one last time before they move on, right? We need to move on. Like honestly if you ran a company would you really be so thrilled to pay your employees after you found out they were scheming to take more from you before they left your company? I wouldn’t be so thrilled either.

Lots of pilots I’ve talked to on the line believe that when the protected group flows a lot of positive changes are coming our way because there will be a minimal amount of bad blood with new representation. Case in point would be the ORD LEC, those guys went about the AIP professionally and stood their ground to get the AIP back and the rest (mostly runner by the protected pilots) sold out to get more flow so they can get get their friends in the 10/11 group even faster.

It’s always the protected pilots that come on here and tell everyone to stay away when in reality your hurting the newer pilot group, which is sad because I believe that originally the protected pilots really wanted to help but lost sight in and wanted to get out more than ever because they were once promised a quick flow, but things change when a merger happens so I think it’s important to see things from both ends instead of just blaming the company all the time which hurts recruitment on here which hurts the newer pilot group.



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Just curious...

If the protected pilots are full of guys wanting to stick it to the company and generally not agree to anything.....

Why are you extolling the ORD reps for standing their ground to get something the company wasn’t going to give?

I’m all for standing your ground, but not sure why you seem to want to blame the guys who actually did get a real deal done?

I probably wouldn’t have voted for it myself, but you seem to be saying and blaming one group, then supporting the other....
In many ways your post doesn’t make sense.

Cujo665
10-08-2019, 07:35 AM
The company makes their hatred for us clear from day one in every possible way, and reminds us regularly. Relations will continue to worsen until AA cleans house in Irving.

Itís not denying commuter hotels for no reason after a long day of flying, staffing seats ineptly and subjecting pilots to JM/JP instead of just paying CC, or siccing lawyers on every LOA to tear it apart and undermine the intent of the agreements to the companyís benefit. Itís the general atmosphere of contempt. You are not appreciated, you are the enemy. Nobody has your back around here except the guy in the other seat. Everyone else is trying to take you down. With how exhausting & stressful this job can sometimes be, itís incredibly demoralizing.

This guy gets it.....

Cujo665
10-08-2019, 07:37 AM
No, I am NOT a protected pilot so I guess your whole theory goes out the window. Second, as others have stated, we are not really represented by all PPís. The PPís are jaded towards this company for good reason, so let that sink in for a minute. What makes you think the company isnít just waiting for all the experience to leave and then really turn the screws? I hope not of course but for you to be so naive and just blindly say ď let it go or move onĒ is a tad ignorant to the history here.

Iím not even going to waste my time with the rest because others already have or it simply isnít worth my time.

You again show your need to defend this company despite their actions.

Yep..... nice to see guys calling the wishy-washy types out more. Could have used 3200 more like you in 2013-2016.

Captian Open
10-10-2019, 01:24 AM
Soooooooooo still no aug back pay?

skyemiles2
10-10-2019, 04:18 AM
Soooooooooo still no aug back pay?

Mine is in there. Thereís an R column and the comment at the bottom days ďAug pay rate true upĒ.

UncreativeUser
10-11-2019, 06:53 AM
Yeah whatever, if the same keyboard warriors like Cyio, high far fast, ERAUAV8TOR and the few others yíall represent like less than 1% of the entire group. Yes I am supporting one group over the other, thatís been the trend it seems because of how jaded the PP is so in case I didnít make myself clear, I believe the PP group is hurting the entire group. Maybe thatís what the company wants us to do but Iím just so sick of coming in here when every other thread has way more professional topics and genuine questions and on here itís the same old ******* from 2014.

Iím not disrespectful of the history, but it doesnít need to constantly be brought up like yíall are living in the past.


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ag386
10-11-2019, 07:26 AM
Yeah whatever, if the same keyboard warriors like Cyio, high far fast, ERAUAV8TOR and the few others yíall represent like less than 1% of the entire group. Yes I am supporting one group over the other, thatís been the trend it seems because of how jaded the PP is so in case I didnít make myself clear, I believe the PP group is hurting the entire group. Maybe thatís what the company wants us to do but Iím just so sick of coming in here when every other thread has way more professional topics and genuine questions and on here itís the same old ******* from 2014.

Iím not disrespectful of the history, but it doesnít need to constantly be brought up like yíall are living in the past.


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You haven't been at Envoy very long and it's glaringly obvious. Envoy management are all extremely vindictive and Envoy sucks. All regionals are awful but Envoy is bottom tier with the horrible and toxic environment there.

Cujo665
10-11-2019, 07:46 AM
Yeah whatever, if the same keyboard warriors like Cyio, high far fast, ERAUAV8TOR and the few others yíall represent like less than 1% of the entire group. Yes I am supporting one group over the other, thatís been the trend it seems because of how jaded the PP is so in case I didnít make myself clear, I believe the PP group is hurting the entire group. Maybe thatís what the company wants us to do but Iím just so sick of coming in here when every other thread has way more professional topics and genuine questions and on here itís the same old ******* from 2014.

Iím not disrespectful of the history, but it doesnít need to constantly be brought up like yíall are living in the past.


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You absolutely are disrespectful of history because itís obvious you havenít studied AMR/AAG and their history of how they treat their pilots. You sound EXACTLY like every apologist that gave in to the company on promises that things would improve.
They thrive on folks like you who honestly think they will give you anything they absolutely do not have to.
If you do not learn from the past, you are destined to repeat it.
This management team has not changed, itís the same lower, mid and upper management as itís always been. The figure heads at the top can talk all they want, and say anything to make you happy and want to trust them. Then, every single manager under them will be stabbing you in the back to make themselves look good for promotions.
Youíve got a lot to learn grasshopper.

Oregon Trail
10-11-2019, 07:56 AM
You haven't been at Envoy very long and it's glaringly obvious. Envoy management are all extremely vindictive and Envoy sucks. All regionals are awful but Envoy is bottom tier with the horrible and toxic environment there.

Au contraire, new people know that too... especially DEC.

Cyio
10-11-2019, 10:10 AM
Yeah whatever, if the same keyboard warriors like Cyio, high far fast, ERAUAV8TOR and the few others yíall represent like less than 1% of the entire group. Yes I am supporting one group over the other, thatís been the trend it seems because of how jaded the PP is so in case I didnít make myself clear, I believe the PP group is hurting the entire group. Maybe thatís what the company wants us to do but Iím just so sick of coming in here when every other thread has way more professional topics and genuine questions and on here itís the same old ******* from 2014.

Iím not disrespectful of the history, but it doesnít need to constantly be brought up like yíall are living in the past.


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And you represent what percentage exactly? Care to share how you came to that? Why am I a ďkeyboard warriorĒ, because I call it what it is?

You seem to have taken this personally, your first mistake. I want success for you just as much as the rest of our pilots. Your second mistake is thinking this company will ever do anything they donít have too.

Lastly and for the second time, I am not a PP, so can we moved past that lol.

Cujo665
10-11-2019, 11:27 AM
And you represent what percentage exactly? Care to share how you came to that? Why am I a “keyboard warrior”, because I call it what it is?

You seem to have taken this personally, your first mistake. I want success for you just as much as the rest of our pilots. Your second mistake is thinking this company will ever do anything they don’t have too.

Lastly and for the second time, I am not a PP, so can we moved past that lol.

He claims to know the history, then claims it's 1% that aren't happy, when it was 76% that voted no to the concessions.... same claim the company made, that the few internet voices weren't reprentative of the whole group.... boom, 76% NO....

This UncreativeUser needs to shut up, listen & learn. There is a reason PP, L10-11's, 824's and everybody before him are "jaded" as he calls it.... he needs to smarten up fast.

ERAUAV8TR
10-11-2019, 12:12 PM
Company loves how junior this company is getting. How uneducated and informed we have gotten. Less than a year the pilot base will be very uneducated in terms of management actions.

CrowneVic
10-11-2019, 12:26 PM
Company loves how junior this company is getting. How uneducated and informed we have gotten. Less than a year the pilot base will be very uneducated in terms of management actions.

Does it matter anyway, when you have a union in place that completely disregards the pilot group, and agrees to things that should be voted on, especially when they know the pilot group would vote no?

havick206
10-11-2019, 01:38 PM
Does it matter anyway, when you have a union in place that completely disregards the pilot group, and agrees to things that should be voted on, especially when they know the pilot group would vote no?

I used to do contract compliance as a volunteer, and I can think agree with this more. The last LOA should have gone to a pilot vote with such substantial changes at play.

UncreativeUser
10-11-2019, 08:35 PM
You absolutely are disrespectful of history because itís obvious you havenít studied AMR/AAG and their history of how they treat their pilots. You sound EXACTLY like every apologist that gave in to the company on promises that things would improve.

They thrive on folks like you who honestly think they will give you anything they absolutely do not have to.

If you do not learn from the past, you are destined to repeat it.

This management team has not changed, itís the same lower, mid and upper management as itís always been. The figure heads at the top can talk all they want, and say anything to make you happy and want to trust them. Then, every single manager under them will be stabbing you in the back to make themselves look good for promotions.

Youíve got a lot to learn grasshopper.



Then what is the solution?


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Cujo665
10-12-2019, 03:37 AM
Then what is the solution?


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Listen to those whoíve already been abused by the company in the past. Theyíre trying to save you from the same abuse.