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ViperCrosswind
10-14-2019, 06:52 AM
Envoy Fellas,

ORD/LGA can get cold - tips for staying warm AND out of the CPO?

The new MH overcoat stinks. Baggy, uncomfortable, heavy, sucks to tote around. If we hate it what are our options?

Anyone tryout the new A Cut Above sweaters?


CLE to IAH
10-14-2019, 07:23 AM
Iíve always been able to get by with the leather jacket and a sweater under it if needed.

A scarf and some gloves doesnít hurt.

:-)

TikkleMe
10-14-2019, 09:19 AM
Envoy Fellas,

ORD/LGA can get cold - tips for staying warm AND out of the CPO?

The new MH overcoat stinks. Baggy, uncomfortable, heavy, sucks to tote around. If we hate it what are our options?

Anyone tryout the new A Cut Above sweaters?


Does nooone believe in tailors anymore?
They have guys and girls out here that will turn a Van Hussen Aviator xxxl parachute into a Cut Above quality blouse for $5-10 bucks.


jake cutter
10-14-2019, 11:16 AM
The Cali sweater from A Cut Above is the way to go.

Houpilot2001
10-14-2019, 12:09 PM
Life changing trick.

100% wool base layers (medium weight) and socks. Big investment but life savers. They keep you warm and you wont get too hot in the cockpit. They regulate body temps extremly well. I use smart wool base layers and good high quality socks. Also, wool can be worn for extended periods (4 days) without having to be washed.

FlyPurdue
10-14-2019, 01:34 PM
I just saw on the 'A Cut Above' website this sweater/jacket.

https://acutaboveuniforms.com/collections/blazers-jackets/products/krete-sweater-jacket

It looks similar to the Twin Hill sweater we used to have. Just hope the zipper lasts longer, as this is not a cheap garment. I might buy one and report back.

CrowneVic
10-14-2019, 01:47 PM
I just saw on the 'A Cut Above' website this sweater/jacket.

https://acutaboveuniforms.com/collections/blazers-jackets/products/krete-sweater-jacket

It looks similar to the Twin Hill sweater we used to have. Just hope the zipper lasts longer, as this is not a cheap garment. I might buy one and report back.

Looks nice, but did you see the estimated shipping date? December, 10th.

ViperCrosswind
10-14-2019, 03:00 PM
Yeah thatís a ways away.

There once was a filthy rumor that if you wore a sweater you didnít have to wear the blazer. I actually looked in FM1 and didnít see that. Anyone have any truth data on that?

Granted it says I should be wearing the twin hill uniform (sigh).

slantgolf
10-14-2019, 04:10 PM
Perrone leather jacket for the win. Warm and comfy. Pop the collar for chicago walk arounds.

Tomhawker
10-14-2019, 05:47 PM
Yeah thatís a ways away.

There once was a filthy rumor that if you wore a sweater you didnít have to wear the blazer. I actually looked in FM1 and didnít see that. Anyone have any truth data on that?

Granted it says I should be wearing the twin hill uniform (sigh).

Iíve heard that as well and have seen people only wearing the sweater. But I havenít seen in writing where itís allowed.

Captian Open
10-14-2019, 05:56 PM
Yeah thatís a ways away.

There once was a filthy rumor that if you wore a sweater you didnít have to wear the blazer. I actually looked in FM1 and didnít see that. Anyone have any truth data on that?

Granted it says I should be wearing the twin hill uniform (sigh).

Be real. No one gets written up for their uniform. I had an FO last week that didnít even wear a belt. When our planes look like theyíve been thru a hail storm how can they expect us to live up to a Grade A standard. Wear what you want.

uavking
10-14-2019, 07:07 PM
Yeah thatís a ways away.

There once was a filthy rumor that if you wore a sweater you didnít have to wear the blazer. I actually looked in FM1 and didnít see that. Anyone have any truth data on that?

Granted it says I should be wearing the twin hill uniform (sigh).

That was something you could do with the optional purchase Twin Hill zip sweater. It was designed to be worn that way (per the Twin Hill collection look book) and was allowed as such at mainline. Down here it existed in a gray area. Since we still don't have a clear uniform standard, you'll see it on those who bought it when it was available.

If folks look at the M&H website, you will find demo uniform pictures that suggest that their pullover and cardigan options are intended to be worn under the blazer as a layering piece. This effectively takes us back to the pre-Twin Hill sweater option as you see in the FM-1. For those coming from the Army, you will find that the GI cardigan is a near match for the M&H, albeit in a higher quality English wool.

If folks want to walk around the concourse in a commando sweater, I hear that SkyBest is hiring with longevity.

ViperCrosswind
10-14-2019, 07:41 PM
[QUOTE=uavking;2904998]That was something you could do with the optional purchase Twin Hill zip sweater. It was designed to be worn that way (per the Twin Hill collection look book) and was allowed as such at mainline. Down here it existed in a gray area. Since we still don't have a clear uniform standard, you'll see it on those who bought it when it was available.

Interesting! The company language on uniforms is ... lacking. Especially with the forced switch to a new supplier that provides so little options.

Did mainline/APA have any real say in this uniform? What is their policy in sweaters and non MH overcoats/trench,pea coats?

As long as we look professional does anyone really care?

uavking
10-14-2019, 07:55 PM
Did mainline/APA have any real say in this uniform? What is their policy in sweaters and non MH overcoats/trench,pea coats?

As long as we look professional does anyone really care?

There are pages dedicated to the Twin Hill/M&H uniform debacle. It can be assumed, however, that AAG intent is to present a consistent brand and the uniform is part of that.

That said, is this the Army and is your chief pilot going to appear out of nowhere like a First Sergeant and hem you up? Probably not.

AV8R72
10-14-2019, 08:01 PM
Is the soft shell jacket sold at Crew Outfitters acceptable? Iíve seen a couple folks with it. It looks similar to the one from A Cut Above on page 1

NoValueAviator
10-15-2019, 04:59 AM
M&H is an emergency uniform hammered through to disarm professional plaintiffs who got hired as mainline flight attendants. Of course itís trash.

now they get Landís End and weíre stuck with it.

Cyio
10-15-2019, 05:07 AM
I still have my old twin hill pants with a cut above shirts and still on occasion use the zip up sweater. I have never been approached about my uniform and if the day comes that i am, I will switch. I mean come on, take one look at the 140's coming out of the desert and tell me that they don't look like something straight out of a scrap heap. I would think passengers would feel much more uneasy about that then me using a zip up sweater.

Until then, I see no reason to wear those uncomfortable coats. In response to the mainline, I have seen, albeit rarely, an AA captain using the sweater.

okayestpilot
10-15-2019, 05:43 AM
Be real. No one gets written up for their uniform. I had an FO last week that didnít even wear a belt. When our planes look like theyíve been thru a hail storm how can they expect us to live up to a Grade A standard. Wear what you want.

This ^^^^^^ Wear what you want. Look professional and keep it clean. Who cares if its an approved piece or not. Comfort above all else. Y'all overthink it.

jake cutter
10-15-2019, 06:44 AM
And donít be the guy who wears the blazer over the sweater.

uavking
10-15-2019, 11:41 AM
And donít be the guy who wears the blazer over the sweater.

Layering is key to staying warm, and that is precisely why thin sweaters work so well under suiting. With a sweater, blazer, gloves, and a watch cap you are prepared for most anything short of hard rain or Fargo cold during a winter walk around if you donít want to carry the town coat. Now the jumper/pullover vs cardigan debate is eternal, and a matter of personal choice, but there is a reason why sweaters make an appearance in business suiting during the winter. Heck, ask a vet what he thought of his GI sweater or field jacket liner under a BDU top during the winter and odds are heíll say that it was the best thing going.

Donít be the guy who wears a uniform item as it was intended, eh? Brilliant. See: https://mandhuniforms.com/store/assets/catalog/parts/UniLSFBK.4.jpg

https://mandhuniforms.com/store/assets/catalog/parts/UniCFBK.4.jpg

pitchattitude
10-15-2019, 11:58 AM
The Twin Hill sweater has kind of funky collar. It is designed to be a collar, but doesnít lay down very well. I might have worn it one sequence under the blazer, but whether the collar is down or not, it just doesnít work well. I never had any problems with the zipper on mine.

CLE to IAH
10-15-2019, 12:54 PM
Layering is key to staying warm, and that is precisely why thin sweaters work so well under suiting. With a sweater, blazer, gloves, and a watch cap you are prepared for most anything short of hard rain or Fargo cold during a winter walk around if you donít want to carry the town coat. Now the jumper/pullover vs cardigan debate is eternal, and a matter of personal choice, but there is a reason why sweaters make an appearance in business suiting during the winter. Heck, ask a vet what he thought of his GI sweater or field jacket liner under a BDU top during the winter and odds are heíll say that it was the best thing going.

Donít be the guy who wears a uniform item as it was intended, eh? Brilliant. See: https://mandhuniforms.com/store/assets/catalog/parts/UniLSFBK.4.jpg

https://mandhuniforms.com/store/assets/catalog/parts/UniCFBK.4.jpg

The uniform debate will be eternal and thatís not changing. Everyone has their opinions some of them are rooted in policy, preference, others in common sense or practicality and yet some still are rooted in the desire to be cool or different. Some even go the extra mile to make sure they can NEVER be identified as a pilot.

It was the same at express. Wear what you want to wear, look professional, donít worry about what anyone else thinks. guess what? In the winter.... I sometime BRING/WEAR the hat!! OMG THE HUMANITY. WHAT A TOOOOOLLLLLLL BAGGGGGG


:-)

ENH017
10-15-2019, 04:00 PM
I'm personally a fan of the plain black North Face jacket. Looks like it could be part of the uniform, still warm

uavking
10-15-2019, 04:52 PM
I'm personally a fan of the plain black North Face jacket. Looks like it could be part of the uniform, still warm

In an ideal world we would have a soft shell as a uniform option (see Alaska with their Transition Jacket or Southwest with their Karbon Aviator jacket). It would be lightweight/packable, water/wind resistant, and usable with civvies. However, that makes way too much sense, and thatís exactly why youíll never see it here.

ParkingatMIA
10-16-2019, 05:56 AM
If anyone still has the twin hill sweater in Large that you arenít using send me a message. Iíll buy it off you.

Tomhawker
10-16-2019, 05:57 AM
Deleted.

Filler

ViperCrosswind
10-16-2019, 09:23 AM
In an ideal world we would have a soft shell as a uniform option (see Alaska with their Transition Jacket or Southwest with their Karbon Aviator jacket). It would be lightweight/packable, water/wind resistant, and usable with civvies. However, that makes way too much sense, and thatís exactly why youíll never see it here.

Dude I love this idea. I doubt the PAX care if I have a blazer on, but it makes crew life MUCH easier.

pitchattitude
10-16-2019, 09:45 AM
Dude I love this idea. I doubt the PAX care if I have a blazer on, but it makes crew life MUCH easier.
Have to agree. The blazer and overcoat arenít real practical when you move around the country and may not even be able to plan where youíre going. A wind breaker would be great. Iíve thought about trying to find a black Army wind breaker with epaulets. Donít know if that is still part of the Army uniform and if theyíre available or not.

Lee 64
10-16-2019, 10:03 AM
I just saw on the 'A Cut Above' website this sweater/jacket.

https://acutaboveuniforms.com/collections/blazers-jackets/products/krete-sweater-jacket

It looks similar to the Twin Hill sweater we used to have. Just hope the zipper lasts longer, as this is not a cheap garment. I might buy one and report back.

Any thoughts on if the one from Crew Outfitters similar to this would be okay to wear?

Cyio
10-16-2019, 10:09 AM
Any thoughts on if the one from Crew Outfitters similar to this would be okay to wear?
You will look like a SkyWest pilot wearing the one from Crew Outfitters.

Does anyone care? Not really.

uavking
10-16-2019, 10:14 AM
Iíve thought about trying to find a black Army wind breaker with epaulets. Donít know if that is still part of the Army uniform and if theyíre available or not.

The officer windbreaker is still a thing with Class Bís and clothing sales sells them for about $100.

https://www.shopmyexchange.com/officer-bi-swing-jacket/1566882

skyemiles2
10-16-2019, 11:56 AM
In an ideal world we would have a soft shell as a uniform option (see Alaska with their Transition Jacket or Southwest with their Karbon Aviator jacket). It would be lightweight/packable, water/wind resistant, and usable with civvies. However, that makes way too much sense, and thatís exactly why youíll never see it here.

I would love to see a Karbon jacket approved. What we have is bulky and not practical at all.

pitchattitude
10-16-2019, 03:38 PM
In an ideal world we would have a soft shell as a uniform option (see Alaska with their Transition Jacket or Southwest with their Karbon Aviator jacket). It would be lightweight/packable, water/wind resistant, and usable with civvies. However, that makes way too much sense, and thatís exactly why youíll never see it here.
Would be great.

Like you said. Great idea. It will never happen at Envoy.

tsimmns927
10-17-2019, 03:18 PM
Not even a pilot just a lurker on here, but would a solid black fleece work? If so you can find them dirt cheap at Colemanís Military Surplus in solid black made from Polartec like we use in the military minus the name tape parts. I wear one for my current job and itís nice and cozy.

HalyardJammer
10-17-2019, 07:49 PM
Not even a pilot just a lurker on here, but would a solid black fleece work? If so you can find them dirt cheap at Colemanís Military Surplus in solid black made from Polartec like we use in the military minus the name tape parts. I wear one for my current job and itís nice and cozy.

This thread is more about "Will I get in trouble if I go out of uniform?" Our manual says we're only allowed to wear twin hill uniform pieces, however the general is, "look professional and you'll likely be left alone." Just a question of do you want to take the risk?

That said, I despise our new overcoat. I like the gestapo jacket. I also liked the zip up jacket twin hill had, the zipper on mine doesn't work anymore.

Cyio
10-18-2019, 05:19 AM
This thread is more about "Will I get in trouble if I go out of uniform?" Our manual says we're only allowed to wear twin hill uniform pieces, however the general is, "look professional and you'll likely be left alone." Just a question of do you want to take the risk?

That said, I despise our new overcoat. I like the gestapo jacket. I also liked the zip up jacket twin hill had, the zipper on mine doesn't work anymore.
Take it to a tailor and have a new quality zipper installed. Might cost $25 and whalla new coat you like.

HalyardJammer
10-18-2019, 08:19 AM
Take it to a tailor and have a new quality zipper installed. Might cost $25 and whalla new coat you like.

Yeah I was thinking about that as I wrote my post.

black cat
10-18-2019, 01:50 PM
[QUOTE=uavking;2904998]That was something you could do with the optional purchase Twin Hill zip sweater. It was designed to be worn that way (per the Twin Hill collection look book) and was allowed as such at mainline. Down here it existed in a gray area. Since we still don't have a clear uniform standard, you'll see it on those who bought it when it was available.

Interesting! The company language on uniforms is ... lacking. Especially with the forced switch to a new supplier that provides so little options.

Did mainline/APA have any real say in this uniform? What is their policy in sweaters and non MH overcoats/trench,pea coats?

As long as we look professional does anyone really care?

And don’t be the guy who wears the blazer over the sweater.

The AA FOM specifically says the sweater can be worn only under the blazer. Only company approved overcoats are approved.

BigZ
10-18-2019, 09:02 PM
The AA FOM specifically says the sweater can be worn only under the blazer. Only company approved overcoats are approved.
It also says the sweater has to be navy in color, which makes it a leftover language from pre-TH uniform

Naviator
10-19-2019, 05:22 AM
Take it to a tailor and have a new quality zipper installed. Might cost $25 and whalla new coat you like.

Voila!

...

CLE to IAH
10-19-2019, 07:33 AM
It also says the sweater has to be navy in color, which makes it a leftover language from pre-TH uniform

Good thing I just bought a black one. Navy?!

BigZ
10-19-2019, 08:12 AM
Good thing I just bought a black one. Navy?!
That was in response to the FM1 reference. That part hasn't been updated in a while

Cyio
10-19-2019, 08:39 AM
Voila!

...

Snob...haha

ViperCrosswind
10-25-2019, 06:08 AM
Good thing I just bought a black one. Navy?!

Let us know how that looks man. Weíre all in this weird spot where MH doesnít make quality (or quantity) options.

CLE to IAH
10-25-2019, 07:49 AM
Let us know how that looks man. Weíre all in this weird spot where MH doesnít make quality (or quantity) options.

Well the ďapprovedĒ Perrone jacket through my envoy says available in Black goat skin or black calf skin. Navy wasnít an option there either.

skyemiles2
10-26-2019, 10:26 AM
Let us know how that looks man. Weíre all in this weird spot where MH doesnít make quality (or quantity) options.

Yup, still waiting on my ďsummerĒ pants.

ViperCrosswind
10-27-2019, 08:28 AM
Yup, still waiting on my ďsummerĒ pants.

Meanwhile the FA are getting new uniforms.

Odds on we switch over before you get your new pants???

Good news is Lands End makes good quality

NoValueAviator
10-27-2019, 08:29 AM
If we get lands end too Iíll be hype

skyemiles2
10-28-2019, 05:17 AM
Meanwhile the FA are getting new uniforms.

Odds on we switch over before you get your new pants???

Good news is Lands End makes good quality

I would gladly eat the cost if that meant we got better uniforms.

Or more likely, just cancel the perpetual backorder.

Lee 64
10-28-2019, 01:45 PM
I would gladly eat the cost if that meant we got better uniforms.

Or more likely, just cancel the perpetual backorder.

Itís bad when FAís and gate agents uniforms are both nicer than ours

pitchattitude
10-31-2019, 04:27 PM
Anyone have an ďEnvoyĒ leather jacket from Mexico? I recall being in AGU and the FAs talking about the leather store not far from the hotel. Didnít go then, but wondering if itís worth trying to get a trade to get down there.

Not sure if they make to order or off the rack. I know they said you could get ďuniformĒ jacket cheap, but would like some more first hand info.

Thanks.

flyer206
11-07-2019, 08:39 AM
So I got the Cali delivered last week and tried it on. My first impression was it’s pretty flimsy and not worth $43. I can see daylight through the fabric when I hold it up. It also looks like it’ll stretch out easily after a few washes. The V neck isn’t really deep and rides up my neck and covers my tie after 2 minutes of wearing it. I sent it back and exchanged it for the Maryland. I just received it and am much happier. It is only slightly thicker than the Cali and not super heavy like I thought. The V neck is deeper too.

The pen holder on the left arm is neat. I wish it had elbow pads and you have to fold the sleeves up to make cuffs. I chose Navy and it's really dark so I don’t think it matters what color you chose. I’m glad I ordered the next size up because it’s fits me nicely over my shirt & tie. My blazer is 42R and I got an XL.

CLE to IAH
11-07-2019, 12:19 PM
FREE SWEATER


I have this one in a L and an XL. the XL is brand new. I wear the large and I love it.

The XL is free to a good home.

http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/6749

DWC in SLC
11-07-2019, 01:24 PM
FREE SWEATER


I have this one in a L and an XL. the XL is brand new. I wear the large and I love it.

The XL is free to a good home.

http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/6749

PM sent

Filler

ParkingatMIA
11-10-2019, 03:33 PM
https://acutaboveuniforms.com/collections/sweaters/products/krete-sweater-jacket

Has anyone ordered the Krete sweater from Cut above? Iíve been looking for one since I canít get the twinhill sweater. Also does anyone know if the black or navy would be closer to our uniform color?

Slow2Final
11-10-2019, 05:15 PM
https://acutaboveuniforms.com/collections/sweaters/products/krete-sweater-jacket

Has anyone ordered the Krete sweater from Cut above? Iíve been looking for one since I canít get the twinhill sweater. Also does anyone know if the black or navy would be closer to our uniform color?

I'm not Envoy, so I can't speak to the color matching. It's solid black (the black one) for whatever that's worth. Construction is great. Thicker than their knit sweaters, definitely keeps you warm. Worth the money.

Naviator
11-10-2019, 05:58 PM
I was just in DFW Crew Outfitters and they now have a zip up sweater. Anyone have any experience with that one?

AV8R72
11-10-2019, 08:13 PM
I was just in DFW Crew Outfitters and they now have a zip up sweater. Anyone have any experience with that one?

It doesnít look near as good as the cut above one IMO.

Iím ready to hear some reviews on the fit of the Cut Above Krete

uavking
11-10-2019, 11:27 PM
Also does anyone know if the black or navy would be closer to our uniform color?

Black is the color of both the (old) Twin Hill and (current) M&H optional purchase sweaters.