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View Full Version : Come to Envoy?


fmrxjttobe
10-19-2019, 07:34 AM
Currently FO at xjt thinking about applying to Envoy. Have about 15 years before retirement. Howís life at Envoy?Is the flow legit? Thanks.


HalyardJammer
10-19-2019, 07:51 AM
Currently FO at xjt thinking about applying to Envoy. Have about 15 years before retirement. Howís life at Envoy?Is the flow legit? Thanks.

Your time to flow will be 7+ years, likely 9.

pitchattitude
10-19-2019, 08:08 AM
Currently FO at xjt thinking about applying to Envoy. Have about 15 years before retirement. Howís life at Envoy?Is the flow legit? Thanks.
Are you OK with a commute to NY and then ORD for a while? You will be immediately upgraded to captain on the 145. The next two plus years or so will be on reserve. Probably what it will take to hold a on the 145 in DFW.

Do not come here for the flow. If you are coming to make captain, that is fine, but again expect the next 18 months or so commuting to reserve if youíre local to DFW. Maybe hold a line in ORD sooner.

Have you considered Spirt?


Cyio
10-19-2019, 08:37 AM
You would be far better off at an ULCC. If you need to come here for recently passed fed rides or something that is one thing, but I would jump out ASAP. Coming in as you are will look like forced upgrades, crappy commutes and perpetual reserve.

If you live in New York or Chicago it will be far more bearable. Lastly, flow for you would look like 5+ years at the low end, close to 9 at the high end.

CLE to IAH
10-19-2019, 08:48 AM
Currently FO at xjt thinking about applying to Envoy. Have about 15 years before retirement. Howís life at Envoy?Is the flow legit? Thanks.

Iím too new to give an opinion but I did come from XJT for the upgrade and because I live near Dallas. I spent 2.5 years in reserve at xjt.


Iím on the 175 now but I am upgrading to the 145 in December.

highfarfast
10-19-2019, 02:35 PM
Iím too new to give an opinion but I did come from XJT for the upgrade and because I live near Dallas. I spent 2.5 years in reserve at xjt.


Iím on the 175 now but I am upgrading to the 145 in December.

I donít have a problem with it but I have to ask because I donít understand why someone does this.

Why do you choose the 175 as a new hire when you know you will be forced to upgrade to the 145? Seems like youíre just making life hard for yourself. No?

Oregon Trail
10-19-2019, 03:15 PM
I don’t have a problem with it but I have to ask because I don’t understand why someone does this.

Why do you choose the 175 as a new hire when you know you will be forced to upgrade to the 145? Seems like you’re just making life hard for yourself. No?

Free type > line on resume > more marketable > make money

Also to the OP
Low seniority captain life is not fun. 2-2.5 years reserve at most junior base... longer for DFW.
Pretty much any QOL goes out the window due to staffing, getting JM, or just additional flying.
Unpredictable proffers for standby and RAP.
Fly with 50hr FOs that know nothing (some are great) and 900 hr FOs that think they are the captain and almost no in-between.

CLE to IAH
10-19-2019, 03:31 PM
I donít have a problem with it but I have to ask because I donít understand why someone does this.

Why do you choose the 175 as a new hire when you know you will be forced to upgrade to the 145? Seems like youíre just making life hard for yourself. No?

Havenít you asked me this before? My answer is the same.

In new hire class I was offered a seat on an aircraft based in Dallas (home) or an aircraft based in NYC.

I chose the one in Dallas.

Had they offered 145 Dallas or 175 ORD, Iíd have still chosen DALLAS.


Even if itís only a temporary convenience, itís a convenience nonetheless. If itís ďharderĒ because I have to go to training on a new aircraft (that Iíve already flown for 3 years) the simple answer is no. I donít think it is. Training events are a big part of this career.

Chato
10-19-2019, 03:54 PM
Havenít you asked me this before? My answer is the same.

In new hire class I was offered a seat on an aircraft based in Dallas (home) or an aircraft based in NYC.

I chose the one in Dallas.

Had they offered 145 Dallas or 175 ORD, Iíd have still chosen DALLAS.


Even if itís only a temporary convenience, itís a convenience nonetheless. If itís ďharderĒ because I have to go to training on a new aircraft (that Iíve already flown for 3 years) the simple answer is no. I donít think it is. Training events are a big part of this career.

Itís pretty smart in a way. Anything that will take time away from commuting to reserve in NY counts

CLE to IAH
10-19-2019, 04:09 PM
Itís pretty smart in a way. Anything that will take time away from commuting to reserve in NY counts

At xjt (which had great people) I was always going to commute. Line or reserve. I commuted to reserve as the dead last FO in CLE for a year, then two years of reserve in IAH before I could get a relief line. it is what it is. I took these jobs, knowing what reserve was all about. I donít mind earning my seniority for QOL.

It wasnít any different at XJT. ďHey Iím number 7 in the bucket and canít even qualify for any flight longer than 38 minutes before timing out. Can I catch this last flight home so I donít have to stay another night?Ē


Denied.


Due to coverage. 😂

highfarfast
10-19-2019, 09:09 PM
Havenít you asked me this before? My answer is the same.

In new hire class I was offered a seat on an aircraft based in Dallas (home) or an aircraft based in NYC.

I chose the one in Dallas.

Had they offered 145 Dallas or 175 ORD, Iíd have still chosen DALLAS.


Even if itís only a temporary convenience, itís a convenience nonetheless. If itís ďharderĒ because I have to go to training on a new aircraft (that Iíve already flown for 3 years) the simple answer is no. I donít think it is. Training events are a big part of this career.

I don't think I asked you before... and I'me sorry for asking. Enjoy your time at the schoolhouse. ;-)

SilentLurker
10-20-2019, 05:52 AM
Also to the OP
Low seniority captain life is not fun. 2-2.5 years reserve at most junior base... longer for DFW.
Pretty much any QOL goes out the window due to staffing, getting JM, or just additional flying.
Unpredictable proffers for standby and RAP.
Fly with 50hr FOs that know nothing (some are great) and 900 hr FOs that think they are the captain and almost no in-between.



This!!!!!!

CLE to IAH
10-20-2019, 05:59 AM
I don't think I asked you before... and I'me sorry for asking. Enjoy your time at the schoolhouse. ;-)

My mistake! I take it back :-)

CLE to IAH
10-20-2019, 06:00 AM
Free type > line on resume > more marketable > make money

Also to the OP
Low seniority captain life is not fun. 2-2.5 years reserve at most junior base... longer for DFW.
Pretty much any QOL goes out the window due to staffing, getting JM, or just additional flying.
Unpredictable proffers for standby and RAP.
Fly with 50hr FOs that know nothing (some are great) and 900 hr FOs that think they are the captain and almost no in-between.

So, an actual serious question on here for once..... how do you keep a healthy CRM and a manageable team environment while also reminding the 3 1/2 stripe FO who the captain is?

Maybe worth its own thread..

NoValueAviator
10-20-2019, 06:26 AM
This doesnít apply in all situations but Iíd say donít be so uptight. Iíve had captains freak out on me because I tried to start the APU ďwithout their permissionĒ after landing, and as soon as they stopped bellyaching they cranked it anyway. :rolleyes:

Most of us are just trying to help, and weíre here to make you look good and deliver a professional product to the passengers and ATC. We arenít here to service your ego and make you think everything that goes well was your idea.

If you do things differently from 90% of the other captains here, just brief us on it and weíll run the flight your way. Iíve let a guy bounce me off the ceiling with speed mode every day for a week before because I recommend a different vertical mode once and he said he liked speed mode.

CLE to IAH
10-20-2019, 06:57 AM
This doesnít apply in all situations but Iíd say donít be so uptight. Iíve had captains freak out on me because I tried to start the APU ďwithout their permissionĒ after landing, and as soon as they stopped bellyaching they cranked it anyway. :rolleyes:

Most of us are just trying to help, and weíre here to make you look good and deliver a professional product to the passengers and ATC. We arenít here to service your ego and make you think everything that goes well was your idea.

If you do things differently from 90% of the other captains here, just brief us on it and weíll run the flight your way. Iíve let a guy bounce me off the ceiling with speed mode every day for a week before because I recommend a different vertical mode once and he said he liked speed mode.
All Iíve ever been is an FO so I know what youíre talking about for sure. Bottom line, I just wanna be a good/safe captain and enjoy the trip.

I think the biggest thing Iím looking forward to is NOT having to endure ďthat captainĒ anymore lol

Chato
10-20-2019, 07:02 AM
So, an actual serious question on here for once..... how do you keep a healthy CRM and a manageable team environment while also reminding the 3 1/2 stripe FO who the captain is?

Maybe worth its own thread..

Put the guy back in his place, tell him heís just the FO.. the Flap Operator..

CLE to IAH
10-20-2019, 07:05 AM
Put the guy back in his place, tell him heís just the FO.. the Flap Operator..

Nah.


Filler

dera
10-20-2019, 08:59 AM
Put the guy back in his place, tell him heís just the FO.. the Flap Operator..

"Only things that should be coming out of your mouth are gear up, flaps up, and yes sir I'll take the fat one".

Captain Kirk
10-20-2019, 11:59 AM
"Only things that should be coming out of your mouth are gear up, flaps up, and yes sir I'll take the fat one".

I thought it was...clear right, youíre right, Iíll take the fat one:D :D

Pedro4President
10-20-2019, 05:49 PM
So, an actual serious question on here for once..... how do you keep a healthy CRM and a manageable team environment while also reminding the 3 1/2 stripe FO who the captain is?

Maybe worth its own thread..

Donít be a dick. Just tell him how you want everything run ahead of time. Donít expect him to read your mind and donít get ****y when he does something you donít like. Ex. FOs 90% of the time shut the APU after second engine start. I tell my FOs leave the APU on and the packs supplying the bleeds to help keep everyone cool. Also donít flip out he shuts it down because of habit. This helps start the tone of Iím running the show and this is how I like things done. Just donít be an ass about it. Also, you have FOs that have tons of aviator experience and I would suggest you lean on that experience rather than trying to show whoís boss. Communicate. Itís their ass thatís on the line too.

Like you said you should start a new thread. I think itís worth it.

LowvalueFO
10-20-2019, 06:09 PM
A bit of misinformation in here concerning direct or near entry captains.

In ORD, CA's on the 145 can hold a line after about 1 year and 10 months and DFW reserve after about 1 year, looking at the current list. ORD seems to be the junior base at the moment but we all know that can change with the next bid.

175 can be held as reserve line after about 14-16 months in ORD.
DFW, you are looking at more than 2 years to get a 175 reserve line.

Of course this all can change as well the more 175's we get.

CLE to IAH
10-20-2019, 07:37 PM
Donít be a dick. Just tell him how you want everything run ahead of time. Donít expect him to read your mind and donít get ****y when he does something you donít like. Ex. FOs 90% of the time shut the APU after second engine start. I tell my FOs leave the APU on and the packs supplying the bleeds to help keep everyone cool. Also donít flip out he shuts it down because of habit. This helps start the tone of Iím running the show and this is how I like things done. Just donít be an ass about it. Also, you have FOs that have tons of aviator experience and I would suggest you lean on that experience rather than trying to show whoís boss. Communicate. Itís their ass thatís on the line too.

Like you said you should start a new thread. I think itís worth it.

Great points. I appreciate it. Yeah I donít want to be ďthat captainĒ and Iím sure I wonít. Iím not a ďshow them who is bossĒ kind of guy, which is why I asked the question. It will be a learning curve though, letting my ďnewnessĒ to the seat smooth out.

Some of the best captains I had at XJT were easy going enough and confident in their captain ability to allow me to fly the plane without all the prompting and overbearing ďyou should keep your water bottle here, itís the best place on the flight deck to hold itĒ 🙄

CLE to IAH
10-20-2019, 07:47 PM
A bit of misinformation in here concerning direct or near entry captains.

In ORD, CA's on the 145 can hold a line after about 1 year and 10 months and DFW reserve after about 1 year, looking at the current list. ORD seems to be the junior base at the moment but we all know that can change with the next bid.

175 can be held as reserve line after about 14-16 months in ORD.
DFW, you are looking at more than 2 years to get a 175 reserve line.

Of course this all can change as well the more 175's we get.

If I am displaced to 145 LGA and then bid dfw and get it, did I seat lock myself?

dera
10-20-2019, 07:59 PM
If I am displaced to 145 LGA and then bid dfw and get it, did I seat lock myself?

15.J.1 says you only get a training freeze for a vacancy that requires training. So base transfers won't count.

MD-11Loader
10-20-2019, 10:09 PM
Donít be a dick. Just tell him how you want everything run ahead of time. Donít expect him to read your mind and donít get ****y when he does something you donít like. Ex. FOs 90% of the time shut the APU after second engine start. I tell my FOs leave the APU on and the packs supplying the bleeds to help keep everyone cool. Also donít flip out he shuts it down because of habit. This helps start the tone of Iím running the show and this is how I like things done. Just donít be an ass about it. Also, you have FOs that have tons of aviator experience and I would suggest you lean on that experience rather than trying to show whoís boss. Communicate. Itís their ass thatís on the line too.

Like you said you should start a new thread. I think itís worth it.

I had some pretty cool captains. They'd take you out and bust the hell out of you and then... go get you drunk, stuff like that - Randall ďPinkĒ Floyd

I always subscribed to the cooperate to graduate mantra as a first officer, but I certainly appreciated captains who said ďif I donít call for it and you think itís time to run a checklist, then do it.Ē Those captains were the kind that allowed you to develop technique and start honing judgement in a new way.

dera
10-20-2019, 10:19 PM
I had some pretty cool captains. They'd take you out and bust the hell out of you and then... go get you drunk, stuff like that - Randall ďPinkĒ Floyd

I always subscribed to the cooperate to graduate mantra as a first officer, but I certainly appreciated captains who said ďif I donít call for it and you think itís time to run a checklist, then do it.Ē Those captains were the kind that allowed you to develop technique and start honing judgement in a new way.

Nothing better than flying with a captain who obviously forgets something, let's say the descent checklist. You pull the checklist out, or suggest maybe we should do it, and then he says "I didn't ask for it".
And then 5 seconds later they call for descent checklist.

MD-11Loader
10-21-2019, 05:33 AM
Nothing better than flying with a captain who obviously forgets something, let's say the descent checklist. You pull the checklist out, or suggest maybe we should do it, and then he says "I didn't ask for it".
And then 5 seconds later they call for descent checklist.

Thatís a pride issue. Weíre on the same team. Itís us against the world, and I donít want to do paperwork, so if I forget, you should do some of that CRM stuff and prod me. I donít have time for the whole lording over the cockpit that other captains love so much.

Pedro4President
10-21-2019, 10:04 AM
Great points. I appreciate it. Yeah I donít want to be ďthat captainĒ and Iím sure I wonít. Iím not a ďshow them who is bossĒ kind of guy, which is why I asked the question. It will be a learning curve though, letting my ďnewnessĒ to the seat smooth out.

Some of the best captains I had at XJT were easy going enough and confident in their captain ability to allow me to fly the plane without all the prompting and overbearing ďyou should keep your water bottle here, itís the best place on the flight deck to hold itĒ 🙄

I get that and honestly I think it will just take some time. You got this. People that ask these types of questions arenít the problem CAs.

Honestly itís not the 3.5 stripes FOs you have to worry about itís the 2.5 stripes.

Oregon Trail
10-21-2019, 12:44 PM
So, an actual serious question on here for once..... how do you keep a healthy CRM and a manageable team environment while also reminding the 3 1/2 stripe FO who the captain is?

Maybe worth its own thread..

i have had 2 "senior" fo's that were dicks. the first when I was new sub 100 hrs in type and company and the 2nd was more recent.

The first i had to have a team chat with and let him know i valued his experience but i was responsible and he should speak up if anything is unsafe or not sop.

the second, i was PM and he called for flaps up in a bank right at acceleration in light to moderate at about 150kts, I delayed until he rolled out and put them up. He claimed i didn't understand maneuvering speed while at about 1000ft and tried to explain it... and i told him to shut up and fly.

HalyardJammer
10-21-2019, 12:53 PM
while at about 1000ft and tried to explain it... and i told him to shut up and fly.

Time and place to have an argument. Err on the side of caution.

Toolbox9909
10-21-2019, 01:05 PM
Ive had that too.

Its more of an issue when you have FOs with a bit of time (hence 3.5 bars) and now he thinks he can run the show and think they know the airplane, regs, etc., but don't. They dont want to listen to the CAs feedback and argue with you on every point. And because of lack of knowledge, they're usually wrong.

This is when you have to go the stick route, and put then in thier place because they are being dangerous and not practicing CRM.

Now - of course we have captains that also have these issues, but were talking about FOs who think they re captains already. And thats problematic.



i have had 2 "senior" fo's that were dicks. the first when I was new sub 100 hrs in type and company and the 2nd was more recent.

The first i had to have a team chat with and let him know i valued his experience but i was responsible and he should speak up if anything is unsafe or not sop.

the second, i was PM and he called for flaps up in a bank right at acceleration in light to moderate at about 150kts, I delayed until he rolled out and put them up. He claimed i didn't understand maneuvering speed while at about 1000ft and tried to explain it... and i told him to shut up and fly.

NoValueAviator
10-21-2019, 07:38 PM
Itís a shame upgrade is purely based on hours/seniority and not merit. If it was merit based I think this problem would disappear.

There is absolutely nothing more awkward than having a weak or inept CA try to ďput you in your placeĒ while you babysit him.

rld1k
10-22-2019, 07:52 AM
I hate it when my inept copilot does a snappy flare

HalyardJammer
10-22-2019, 09:35 AM
I hate it when my inept copilot does a snappy flare

I noticed you only have 17 pieces of flair...

Captain Kirk
10-22-2019, 05:31 PM
I noticed you only have 17 pieces of flair...

Thatís good because you know 15 is the minimum

450knotOffice
10-24-2019, 10:30 PM
It’s a shame upgrade is purely based on hours/seniority and not merit. If it was merit based I think this problem would disappear.

There is absolutely nothing more awkward than having a weak or inept CA try to “put you in your place” while you babysit him.

Says every overbearing, know it all FO. :rolleyes:

(not saying YOU are that guy, but the VERY FEW FO’s I had issues with when I was with Eagle were universally weak, yet overbearing A-type personalities. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority were not, and were awesome pilots and people, but there were a few memorable douchebag FO’s who tried mightily to overpower me, to no avail. Remember too that you were once that brand new FO who needed babysitting by your captains for your first few hundred hours in type - or at the airline. New captains on type definitely need and want help and assistance from their experienced FO’s for their first few hundred hours in type, but don’t need or want the FO’s to take over the operation and be the quasi captains. The company nor the FAA condones that.)

And you are naive if you think “merit” at any company isn’t based on a good old boys club system. That system upgrades some of the most unqualified, inept pilots flying for any given company - usually a corporate or charter type of operation.

OldBiff
10-25-2019, 07:00 PM
Youíre coming from X-Jet so hopefully you understand:

1. How much the pay is for the job.
2. Where the bases are and where you live.
3. How seniority based bidding works.

Weíve go too many folks on here that whine about their commute, making ends meet, and being on reserve. All of which should be known before you sign on the line.

Honestly if itís a dead end there take the check, the upgrade, and come on over. Especially if you can move to your base. The flow is real as long as the economy holds and AA is having training classes. The best part about it Is that youíre always making time toward your flow date. Lose your medical still marching toward it. Want to work in training, HQ, recruiting, or whatever after sitting reserve/flying the line for 2 years? Youíre still closing I on that flow date. Itís the best insurance policy you can have while you try to get hired at a legacy, if thatís in fact the goal.

captjns
10-25-2019, 07:10 PM
There is absolutely nothing more awkward than having a weak or inept CA try to ďput you in your placeĒ while you babysit him.

Yeah there is... flying with a 20,000 hour FO who only has 1,750 total time in their logbook... of which 250 hours is multi crew operations.

speedbrakearmed
10-25-2019, 07:30 PM
Youíre coming from X-Jet so hopefully you understand:

1. How much the pay is for the job.
2. Where the bases are and where you live.
3. How seniority based bidding works.

Weíve go too many folks on here that whine about their commute, making ends meet, and being on reserve. All of which should be known before you sign on the line.

Honestly if itís a dead end there take the check, the upgrade, and come on over. Especially if you can move to your base. The flow is real as long as the economy holds and AA is having training classes. The best part about it Is that youíre always making time toward your flow date. Lose your medical still marching toward it. Want to work in training, HQ, recruiting, or whatever after sitting reserve/flying the line for 2 years? Youíre still closing I on that flow date. Itís the best insurance policy you can have while you try to get hired at a legacy, if thatís in fact the goal.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

dk104444
10-25-2019, 08:19 PM
What are you guys doing? The pay raise is no longer a discussion it is done. Now is the time to get new hires in so the flow is not going to slow down. Time to get new hires into Envoy!

NoValueAviator
10-25-2019, 08:50 PM
Says every overbearing, know it all FO. :rolleyes:

(not saying YOU are that guy, but the VERY FEW FOís I had issues with when I was with Eagle were universally weak, yet overbearing A-type personalities. Thankfully, the overwhelming majority were not, and were awesome pilots and people, but there were a few memorable douchebag FOís who tried mightily to overpower me, to no avail. Remember too that you were once that brand new FO who needed babysitting by your captains for your first few hundred hours in type - or at the airline. New captains on type definitely need and want help and assistance from their experienced FOís for their first few hundred hours in type, but donít need or want the FOís to take over the operation and be the quasi captains. The company nor the FAA condones that.)

And you are naive if you think ďmeritĒ at any company isnít based on a good old boys club system. That system upgrades some of the most unqualified, inept pilots flying for any given company - usually a corporate or charter type of operation.

Any time someoneís perception of their own abilities significantly exceeds their actual abilities youíre in a fix. Anyone would agree with that. However, when you start talking about putting people in their place, that is to me indicative of a mentality that precludes any possibility of effective CRM. The evidence of this is everywhere if you start watching Air Disasters type shows.

If youíre reading this and you like putting people in their place and making sure they stay in their lane etc etc., try this alternative on for size: ďI know youíre trying to help, but Iím ultimately responsible for that.Ē

Pedro4President
10-26-2019, 05:26 AM
What are you guys doing? The pay raise is no longer a discussion it is done. Now is the time to get new hires in so the flow is not going to slow down. Time to get new hires into Envoy!

Spoken like a true used car salesman.

Our ďgoalĒ isnít to get pilots here. It should be to help new hires make the best choice for themselves.

Nothing sours a new hire faster than learning recruiters/ management werenít completely honest.

Cyio
10-26-2019, 06:18 AM
What are you guys doing? The pay raise is no longer a discussion it is done. Now is the time to get new hires in so the flow is not going to slow down. Time to get new hires into Envoy!

Envoy has the biggest control over that, not us. They could overnight improve some of our more draconian work rules and would establish a happy, recruit friendly work group, not to mention a handful of qol improvements long sought after.

The choice is solely in their hands.

Skigsfly
10-26-2019, 08:06 AM
How many hours can a new hire expect to fly first year? Hoping for ORD base.

Cyio
10-26-2019, 08:41 AM
How many hours can a new hire expect to fly first year? Hoping for ORD base.

200-300, if you hustle.

Should easily get 750 or so durning second year if you get anything but LGA.

Skigsfly
10-26-2019, 09:32 AM
Ouch only 200-300 first year.. So expect lots of sitting on reserve for the first year? Which airframe would you ideally fly more first and second year?

pitchattitude
10-26-2019, 10:02 AM
Ouch only 200-300 first year.. So expect lots of sitting on reserve for the first year? Which airframe would you ideally fly more first and second year?

It has been variable. There has been a lot of shifting around and people hired a few classes apart to the same airframe and base have seen vastly different experiences.

Expect the absolute worst case scenario. Be able to accept the plane and base you donít want and plan to move or have a crappy commute. Expect to be on reserve for six months. Repeat when you make captain.

If you expect the worst and it is better than you expected then you arenít disappointed.

smtx123
10-26-2019, 11:04 AM
Ouch only 200-300 first year.. So expect lots of sitting on reserve for the first year? Which airframe would you ideally fly more first and second year?

Yeah man what he said above. Reserve is literally luck of the draw. There were January hires this year that got the golden ticket DFW E75 FO, and did 1 month of reserve. I also had a buddy who did over a year of rsv in LGA. Youíll never know until you go through it and hit the line. Then youíll have a better idea

pitchattitude
10-26-2019, 11:32 AM
It has been variable. There has been a lot of shifting around and people hired a few classes apart to the same airframe and base have seen vastly different experiences.

Expect the absolute worst case scenario. Be able to accept the plane and base you donít want and plan to move or have a crappy commute. Expect to be on reserve for six months. Repeat when you make captain.

If you expect the worst and it is better than you expected then you arenít disappointed.
On the upside, there is no longer any chance of going to the CRJ.

rld1k
10-26-2019, 11:46 AM
I know people getting 700+ first year. 200-300 is sand bagging

Crimson37Roger
10-26-2019, 04:04 PM
Itís random as hell, but I got 300 hours in my first 5 months here. If you get the 145, your pretty much screwed.

pitchattitude
10-26-2019, 05:44 PM
Itís random as hell, but I got 300 hours in my first 5 months here. If you get the 145, your pretty much screwed.
You do mean first five months on the line?

f16jetmech
10-26-2019, 06:05 PM
I had 150 hours 12 month on property. November 17 hire

NoValueAviator
10-26-2019, 07:00 PM
Donít get the disinfo campaign. 300 first year is sandbagging? I had 140 hours at the end of year one. Proffered for everything, always on the turnback list, and bid the reserve shifts most likely to get called. Itís slow here on the 145, especially when they overstaff it as they like to do.

Naviator
10-26-2019, 07:26 PM
I had 150 hours 12 month on property. November 17 hire

I had 550 hours 12 months on property. November 17 hire.

Lots of variables involved here.

f16jetmech
10-27-2019, 03:10 AM
I had 550 hours 12 months on property. November 17 hire.

Lots of variables involved here.

175 I presume? Or 145 lga. I regret going ORD for sure... Just thought it'd be an easier commute out of dfw. You don't know what you don't know. Is what it is. I have better seniority when I upgrade now!

Cyio
10-27-2019, 07:37 AM
I know people getting 700+ first year. 200-300 is sand bagging

This isnít the norm by any stretch. If you want to believe it is, I have some beach front property to sell you.

Say you start school in January, figure three months to finish everything. Letís say, under an extremely unlucky scenario, you immediately get a line with your first month being full. Most donít finish IOE perfectly in time to both bid and fly their first month as a line holder. Anyway, even if this happened, you would have 9 months times 74 hours still puts you under 700 for the remaining year.

The more likely scenario is that you will finish school and hit the reserve list for six months. You may get flying you may not, all depends on seniority and time of year.

There are outliers here but really letís not talk the extreme end of things. If you plan on 300 hours your first year and 750-900 your second you wonít be disappointed.

havick206
10-27-2019, 01:28 PM
This isnít the norm by any stretch. If you want to believe it is, I have some beach front property to sell you.

Say you start school in January, figure three months to finish everything. Letís say, under an extremely unlucky scenario, you immediately get a line with your first month being full. Most donít finish IOE perfectly in time to both bid and fly their first month as a line holder. Anyway, even if this happened, you would have 9 months times 74 hours still puts you under 700 for the remaining year.

The more likely scenario is that you will finish school and hit the reserve list for six months. You may get flying you may not, all depends on seniority and time of year.

There are outliers here but really letís not talk the extreme end of things. If you plan on 300 hours your first year and 750-900 your second you wonít be disappointed.

It really is just too hard to predict. When I started late 2016 I flew 1000 hours in 12 months after IOE. Fast forward to new hires 3-5 months later and they were on reserve for 12+ months.

Itís all about timing and itís difficult to predict as AA keeps changing the flight file.

Naviator
10-27-2019, 05:29 PM
175 I presume? Or 145 lga. I regret going ORD for sure... Just thought it'd be an easier commute out of dfw. You don't know what you don't know. Is what it is. I have better seniority when I upgrade now!

Yes 175 ORD till I could hold a line in DFW.

2 years to the day indoc to QU.