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View Full Version : Part 121 washout.


Captelmo
11-18-2019, 09:49 AM
I just failed training with one of the regionals and busted my checkride. They asked me to resign which I did instead of getting fired. Now Iím wondering is my airline career over or do I still have hope ?


SonicFlyer
11-18-2019, 09:53 AM
Apply at Mesa.

drywhitetoast
11-18-2019, 09:56 AM
Apply at Mesa.

Lol...I'm not sure if that is intended to be a joke or if you were being serious. Retreads is the industry term I've heard thrown around.


Captelmo
11-18-2019, 10:09 AM
Apply at Mesa.

I got off the phone with them and they said theyíll call back today to let me know if theyíre interested. Should I be worried?

Excargodog
11-18-2019, 11:09 AM
I got off the phone with them and they said theyíll call back today to let me know if theyíre interested. Should I be worried?

Only if they say yes. Then youíll be working for Mesa. :eek:

I kid, I kid...

Hope they take you and you redeem yourself and have a long and successful career.

;)

rickair7777
11-18-2019, 12:58 PM
I got off the phone with them and they said they’ll call back today to let me know if they’re interested. Should I be worried?

Don't be in a big rush to cold-call other regionals just. You need to figure out what went wrong, how you can fix that, and equally importantly, how you can articulate to a potential employer that it was learning experience and not a sign of fundamental unsuitability.

I would probably try to some other regionals once you've figured out your way ahead with mesa and go-jet as last resorts.

Worst case maybe you'll need to go get some 135 time and apply to regionals again in your two (with some turbine training sucess under your belt).

WacoQCF
11-18-2019, 01:37 PM
Don't be in a big rush to cold-call other regionals just. You need to figure out what went wrong, how you can fix that, and equally importantly, how you can articulate to a potential employer that it was learning experience and not a sign of fundamental unsuitability.

I would probably try to some other regionals once you've figured out your way ahead with mesa and go-jet as last resorts.

Worst case maybe you'll need to go get some 135 time and apply to regionals again in your two (with some turbine training sucess under your belt).

Atlas....Atlas/Southern is a last resort. You could probably start training tomorrow there.

Captelmo
11-18-2019, 02:19 PM
Atlas....Atlas/Southern is a last resort. You could probably start training tomorrow there.

I have 0 jet time

TiredSoul
11-18-2019, 04:02 PM
How old are you and what are your times?
Are you early 20ís and just woke up with your head up your @ss come checkride day or are you late 50ís and you just canít learn new sh!t anymore?
Iíve known both.

Captelmo
11-18-2019, 04:19 PM
How old are you and what are your times?
Are you early 20ís and just woke up with your head up your @ss come checkride day or are you late 50ís and you just canít learn new sh!t anymore?
Iíve known both.

Iím early 20ís. 1500 hours, also failed my checkride because of a visual approach, never practiced visuals in the sim before. First time doing a visual in a jet was on my checkride

pangolin
11-18-2019, 04:25 PM
And exactly how did you screw it up?

Captelmo
11-18-2019, 04:29 PM
And exactly how did you screw it up?

Just couldnít do it. Ended up high twice went around then landed on my 3rd try

pangolin
11-18-2019, 04:34 PM
Go arounds are good decision making. There's more here..... So when you interview be TOTALLY honest, own it and move on. No second try on the check ride? Other lesson failures? Something not adding up. I'm not trying to be negatively critical - I want to help you succeed. If I were interviewing you I would be suspicious.

Captelmo
11-18-2019, 04:50 PM
Go arounds are good decision making. There's more here..... So when you interview be TOTALLY honest, own it and move on. No second try on the check ride? Other lesson failures? Something not adding up. I'm not trying to be negatively critical - I want to help you succeed. If I were interviewing you I would be suspicious.

Well I didnít check for fuel on the go arounds and landed under reserve +alt mins. Also Iíve used up all my extra sims.

rickair7777
11-18-2019, 05:06 PM
Iím early 20ís. 1500 hours, also failed my checkride because of a visual approach, never practiced visuals in the sim before. First time doing a visual in a jet was on my checkride

Don't sweat it too much, GA to 121 jet can be a hard jump to make for many folks, if you recover cleanly this will have minimal impact on your long-term career prospects.

Captelmo
11-18-2019, 05:13 PM
Don't sweat it too much, GA to 121 jet can be a hard jump to make for many folks, if you recover cleanly this will have minimal impact on your long-term career prospects.

Hope I can get another regional to give me a chance

TiredSoul
11-18-2019, 06:22 PM
Was this a visual approach with PAPI/VASI inoperative?
3:1 rule.
Extend runway threshold in the box and mentally calculate your altitudes.
3:1 so 3 NM = 900í 5NM = 1500í etc
Itís a classic end of checkride low hanging fruit really.
Sounds like you dug yourself a hole.
Honestly this is lack of experience and you start overthinking everything.

rickair7777
11-18-2019, 06:51 PM
Was this a visual approach with PAPI/VASI inoperative?
3:1 rule.
Extend runway threshold in the box and mentally calculate your altitudes.
3:1 so 3 NM = 900í 5NM = 1500í etc
Itís a classic end of checkride low hanging fruit really.
Sounds like you dug yourself a hole.
Honestly this is lack of experience and you start overthinking everything.

Visuals in the sim? Almost nobody does that and for good reason. It's hard enough for a noob in a real jet where you can look out the side window. Unless it's straight in for a no-flapper.

JamesNoBrakes
11-18-2019, 07:37 PM
I’m early 20’s. 1500 hours, also failed my checkride because of a visual approach, never practiced visuals in the sim before. First time doing a visual in a jet was on my checkride

Well here is a life lesson, if you are asked to do something on your checkride that you haven't trained on, you need to stop right there. Do not pass go. Bring it up professionally. Ask to speak to a manager right away and explain the situation. If they don't incomplete and "reset" you after accomplishing the required training, you need to take it as high as necessary to get it fixed. Younger guys often aren't as resourceful and aggressive with this (and I don't mean being condescending and argumentative), so unfortunately the get the short end of the stick sometimes when the department knows they couldn't get away with the same thing with someone a bit older. You should have training records as well, so you should be able to show them where you have NOT trained on a visual approach. You should be watching them fill out the forms/entries at the end of each event and if it doesn't match, then they are falsifying records and intentional falsification is a big deal.

The life lesson is that you have to look out for you. You need to be intimately familiar with the checkride and what is on it as far as tasks. You should have known ahead of time. Checkrides are not supposed to by mystery guessing games. At the time of the check they should have been able to show/tell you what is on the check as far as tasks. You should have known before you started the check whether you practiced all of the tasks and if you find something that you had not been trained on, you don't take the check, no matter how much you want to get it done. Errors and screwups happen, both in training departments and as the fault of the applicant, but not providing training on a checkride task isn't a small thing. Who would a reputable airline want to hire?, the one that "got away with it" and "made it work" or the one that didn't take the check because they didn't get training on the tasks in the check? That's like turning down a flight when the weather doesn't meet mins. I realize that not all regionals are "reputable" in this way, but eventually you might make it up to a big airline and they most definitely care about doing things the right way.

PerfInit
11-18-2019, 08:13 PM
Was the initial training/checking done under AQP (Part 121 Subpart Y) or traditional Part 121 Subpart N&O training program? I am not aware of any requirement for an air carrier to check visual approaches on an initial equipment 121.441 Sim PC or AQP maneuvers validation.

Was it perhaps a ďno flapĒ visual approach without reference to the VGSI? ďNo FlapĒ approach & landing should be trained and checked if the aircraftís FSB Report requires it.

Usually visual approaches are done with a check airman during IOE.

JamesNoBrakes
11-18-2019, 09:17 PM
Was the initial training/checking done under AQP (Part 121 Subpart Y) or traditional Part 121 Subpart N&O training program? I am not aware of any requirement for an air carrier to check visual approaches on an initial equipment 121.441 Sim PC or AQP maneuvers validation.

Was it perhaps a “no flap” visual approach without reference to the VGSI? “No Flap” approach & landing should be trained and checked if the aircraft’s FSB Report requires it.

Usually visual approaches are done with a check airman during IOE.

It's always been up to the airline whether they want to go "above and beyond" within their training program. It states in the FAA guidance for inspectors that the airlines can have higher standards than are listed there and in the regulation, those are just the "minimums", except you absolutely have to provide training on whatever you are checking obviously and it has to be a safe practice/mitigated. So if they wanted to train and check visual approaches...they could.

(d) If the certificate holder's approved training program includes a course of training utilizing an airplane simulator under ß121.409 (c) and (d) of this part, each pilot must successfully complete—

(1) With respect to ß121.409(c) of this part—

(i) Training and practice in the simulator in at least all of the maneuvers and procedures set forth in appendix E to this part for initial flight training that are capable of being performed in an airplane simulator without a visual system; and

(ii) A flight check in the simulator or the airplane to the level of proficiency of a pilot in command or second in command, as applicable, in at least the maneuvers and procedures set forth in appendix F to this part that are capable of being performed in an airplane simulator without a visual system.

(2) With respect to ß121.409(d) of this part, training and practice in at least the maneuvers and procedures set forth in the certificate holder's approved low-altitude windshear flight training program that are capable of being performed in an airplane simulator in which the maneuvers and procedures are specifically authorized.

Captelmo
11-18-2019, 09:20 PM
Well here is a life lesson, if you are asked to do something on your checkride that you haven't trained on, you need to stop right there. Do not pass go. Bring it up professionally. Ask to speak to a manager right away and explain the situation. If they don't incomplete and "reset" you after accomplishing the required training, you need to take it as high as necessary to get it fixed. Younger guys often aren't as resourceful and aggressive with this (and I don't mean being condescending and argumentative), so unfortunately the get the short end of the stick sometimes when the department knows they couldn't get away with the same thing with someone a bit older. You should have training records as well, so you should be able to show them where you have NOT trained on a visual approach. You should be watching them fill out the forms/entries at the end of each event and if it doesn't match, then they are falsifying records and intentional falsification is a big deal.

The life lesson is that you have to look out for you. You need to be intimately familiar with the checkride and what is on it as far as tasks. You should have known ahead of time. Checkrides are not supposed to by mystery guessing games. At the time of the check they should have been able to show/tell you what is on the check as far as tasks. You should have known before you started the check whether you practiced all of the tasks and if you find something that you had not been trained on, you don't take the check, no matter how much you want to get it done. Errors and screwups happen, both in training departments and as the fault of the applicant, but not providing training on a checkride task isn't a small thing. Who would a reputable airline want to hire?, the one that "got away with it" and "made it work" or the one that didn't take the check because they didn't get training on the tasks in the check? That's like turning down a flight when the weather doesn't meet mins. I realize that not all regionals are "reputable" in this way, but eventually you might make it up to a big airline and they most definitely care about doing things the right way.



I made a huge mistake which might of potentially ruined my career. I should of stopped the checkride at that moment, I keep blaming myself for doing the checkride in the first place but at the same time I canít go back in time. Now I have to look for other regionals that can give me a chance. Mesa turned me down so thereís that.....

Riverside
11-19-2019, 04:48 AM
Mesa turned me down so thereís that.....

If Mesa turned you down, then you have a huge problem.

pangolin
11-19-2019, 06:58 AM
If Mesa turned you down, then you have a huge problem.

Maybe not. Mesa is super fat on ejet Fo and unless you want the crj they can presently afford to be more selective. The original regional said reapply in 6 months. There were other training failures beside the ride. The poster said additional sims were used up. Normally an initial ride failure this far in would be retrain/retest just that task.

FLT000
11-19-2019, 07:55 AM
A visual? Unfortunately that sounds so basic it may be hard to explain.
Now a single engine, dual gen fail, no flap visual....easier to explain.


I foresee this becoming more and more common with inexperienced pilots getting ahead of themselves.
Go find a right seat 91/135 job and learn all you can.

Mjm8710
11-19-2019, 01:07 PM
Keep applying all places, all they can say is no. I know one guy who failed out of more than one regional and is a captain now somewhere. Is your career over, no way-thatís a bad attitude to have. Youíre young, you messed up, learn from it and move on. You invested a lot to walk away just yet. Just donít let it happen again, if you donít feel ready or adequately trained in an area you need to speak up ahead of time.

Biggest advice is to be honest about the whole situation and donít make excuses in future interviews. Not every candidate youíre competing with has a perfect record. Some guys may have checkride failures, some may have been fired, some may not even take the interview serious. There is hope especially when it comes to scoring a job at a regional. Once you get on somewhere work hard (no more checkride busts, volunteer, get into training department) so you can over shadow that blemish on your record for the majors.

Lastly, I donít agree with some saying itís going to be hard explaining why you messed up a visual approach. Actually thatís one of the more difficult things to learn in a jet for noobs for some reason. I see tons of brand new FOs and have even flown with some captains that have struggled with them and have heard it consistently from check airmen that give training. I know I struggled a little at them when I started. I know Iím not going to be the only one saying this either. Live and learn. Good luck.

Captelmo
11-19-2019, 01:43 PM
Keep applying all places, all they can say is no. I know one guy who failed out of more than one regional and is a captain now somewhere. Is your career over, no way-thatís a bad attitude to have. Youíre young, you messed up, learn from it and move on. You invested a lot to walk away just yet. Just donít let it happen again, if you donít feel ready or adequately trained in an area you need to speak up ahead of time.

Biggest advice is to be honest about the whole situation and donít make excuses in future interviews. Not every candidate youíre competing with has a perfect record. Some guys may have checkride failures, some may have been fired, some may not even take the interview serious. There is hope especially when it comes to scoring a job at a regional. Once you get on somewhere work hard (no more checkride busts, volunteer, get into training department) so you can over shadow that blemish on your record for the majors.

Lastly, I donít agree with some saying itís going to be hard explaining why you messed up a visual approach. Actually thatís one of the more difficult things to learn in a jet for noobs for some reason. I see tons of brand new FOs and have even flown with some captains that have struggled with them and have heard it consistently from check airmen that give training. I know I struggled a little at them when I started. I know Iím not going to be the only one saying this either. Live and learn. Good luck.

Thank you so much !! Iíve applied to every other regional there is. Hope I can reply from someone soon

USMCFLYR
11-19-2019, 02:21 PM
I have trouble believing that something NOT TRAINED would be introduced on a checkride in a structured training program.
Now Iíve never been through a -121 program which I believe to be even more highly structured that the military/P135 training programs that I have been through. Is this a common occurrence?

galaxy flyer
11-19-2019, 02:31 PM
I suspect it might be covered in a cursory manner. Iíve seen it often combined with the partial/no flap landing. Usually one failing item isnít an ďdown the roadĒ event, but others here know more.

TiredSoul
11-19-2019, 02:34 PM
Was this a Visual Approach or an approach in Visual conditions

Iím struggling with this one a little as weíre getting crumbs of information in every new post.

In real life when cleared for a ďvisual approachĒ itís prudent to still use available lateral and vertical guidance.
So:
How exactly was this set up and what was the assignment.
Iím thinking thereís more going on here.

Peabody17
11-19-2019, 02:43 PM
I donít believe youíre allowed to use a backup (e.g. ILS) for the visual approach on a rating ride.

Captelmo
11-19-2019, 03:34 PM
I have trouble believing that something NOT TRAINED would be introduced on a checkride in a structured training program.
Now Iíve never been through a -121 program which I believe to be even more highly structured that the military/P135 training programs that I have been through. Is this a common occurrence?


It was in the syllabus but my instructor said it was a ďshow and tellĒ and said my sim partner and I should use that time to practice more important stuff like v1 cuts, SE landings, etc... little did I know....

Captelmo
11-19-2019, 03:35 PM
I donít believe youíre allowed to use a backup (e.g. ILS) for the visual approach on a rating ride.

In my case we were allowed but ils was out of service so I could only use lateral guidance which would be the localizer.

Captelmo
11-19-2019, 03:39 PM
I suspect it might be covered in a cursory manner. Iíve seen it often combined with the partial/no flap landing. Usually one failing item isnít an ďdown the roadĒ event, but others here know more.


Obviously my checkride didnít go perfect. Small mistakes were made, which werenít a major issue. Im positive if I had an Instrument approach it would of been a pass. That visual was the main reason I failed, that being said it wasnít the ONLY screw up. The examiner said every other mistake I did was a debrief item. Just that visual was the icing on the cake

TiredSoul
11-19-2019, 04:02 PM
In my case we were allowed but ils was out of service so I could only use lateral guidance which would be the localizer.

So you had a localizer.
Did you have a PAPI/VASI?
Since it was a ďshow and tellĒ the instructor must have given you some guidance as to how to do it.
Which means youíve been trained.

Captelmo
11-19-2019, 05:38 PM
So you had a localizer.
Did you have a PAPI/VASI?
Since it was a ďshow and tellĒ the instructor must have given you some guidance as to how to do it.
Which means youíve been trained.

Nope. As I mentioned before Iíve never done a visual approach in the simulator before my checkride

galaxy flyer
11-19-2019, 06:28 PM
I find it difficult to understand how a 121 (or any professional TO) allows untrained events to be checked.

GF

Captelmo
11-19-2019, 08:23 PM
I find it difficult to understand how a 121 (or any professional TO) allows untrained events to be checked.

GF


I told my instructors I wanted to practice visuals they told me I donít have to waste sim time on it and instead I can work on something else since (to their knowledge) itís not coming on the checkride. I honestly canít blame them, they were trying to help me save sim time since they thought I wouldnít get visuals on the checkride

TiredSoul
11-19-2019, 10:15 PM
Nope. As I mentioned before Iíve never done a visual approach in the simulator before my checkride

Hang on...were you briefed on how to do one?
As stated earlier you canít be tested on whatís not trained so Iím thinking weíve got a mountain of misunderstanding here.
What did your sim partner think of it?
If it was considered a ďbriefing onlyĒ item then technically youíve been trained.
But I donít know how the training syllabus was set up.
Iím thinking thereís something youíre overlooking.
Again, what do you consider a visual approach and how was it set up?
Straight in 10 mile final starting at 3000í?

DanMarino
11-20-2019, 11:20 AM
Maybe the examiner noticed a pattern of mistakes and thought, well letís do a visual and see how he performs. Then with the way the visual went he decided not to pass.

Captelmo
11-20-2019, 04:23 PM
Hang on...were you briefed on how to do one?
As stated earlier you canít be tested on whatís not trained so Iím thinking weíve got a mountain of misunderstanding here.
What did your sim partner think of it?
If it was considered a ďbriefing onlyĒ item then technically youíve been trained.
But I donít know how the training syllabus was set up.
Iím thinking thereís something youíre overlooking.
Again, what do you consider a visual approach and how was it set up?
Straight in 10 mile final starting at 3000í?


My sim partner had previous jet time so he didnít mind that.

Also it was a charted visual

TiredSoul
11-20-2019, 04:45 PM
My sim partner had previous jet time so he didnít mind that.

Also it was a charted visual

Donít blame it on the Jet time or lack thereof.
Weíre sitting here taking time out of our day to answer you and help you and we have to piecemeal this together.
Now youíre giving us another piece of info that would have been useful.
This is getting annoying.
If itís anything like this one:

http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/oswg/kjfk%20rnav%20visual%20rwy%2013l.pdf

You either build it in the box or you fly it as you would fly a VOR approach with step downs.
Go-around once - ok
Go-around twice - problem as you now need to start looking at fuel and either requesting another runway or divert to alternate.
Lots of tunnel vision going on in the sim, I suffer from it myself greatly.
Never, EVER forget that in the sim youíre being evaluated on what you would do in REAL life.

galaxy flyer
11-20-2019, 06:04 PM
Iím early 20ís. 1500 hours, also failed my checkride because of a visual approach, never practiced visuals in the sim before. First time doing a visual in a jet was on my checkride

Hate to say, but weíll be seeing more of this as 1500 pilots without any significant jet experience jump into a jet. Many can do it, others canít WITHOUT getting some training/experience like flying a turboprop at cargo operation.

Itís a real failing in the US system where somehow magically 1500 hours makes you an airline pilot. Iím not a huge fan of the Euro MPL idea, but before jumping in a jet, there must be structured training AND line experience.

Instead of immediately jumping at Mesa, find cargo op like AMF or decent jet charter operation, build some jet experience.

GF

dera
11-20-2019, 06:14 PM
My sim partner had previous jet time so he didnít mind that.

Also it was a charted visual

Let me guess. Mt Vernon visual to DCA?

TiredSoul
11-20-2019, 06:28 PM
Let me guess. Mt Vernon visual to DCA?

Itís got recommended altitude on the chart at DME distances.
Step downs a la VOR/DME approach.

DanMarino
11-20-2019, 08:03 PM
Donít either requesting another runway or divert to alternate.


How would this help when the issue is not executing a visual approach to touchdown?

pangolin
11-21-2019, 04:49 AM
I donít believe youíre allowed to use a backup (e.g. ILS) for the visual approach on a rating ride.

Wrong. All depends on the APD.

rickair7777
11-21-2019, 06:38 AM
How would this help when the issue is not executing a visual approach to touchdown?

If it was AQP LOE, then you should divert, since it's treated like an actual flight. The examiner can then fast-forward and simulate refueling to move things along. But under AQP you have to obey all the regs. Might still run out of time to complete everything, you can fail for that but better to risk going into overtime than sudden-death.

For a PC, which is task-oriented, you could just keep trying since the fuel load is usually frozen anyway.

TiredSoul
11-21-2019, 08:38 AM
How would this help when the issue is not executing a visual approach to touchdown?

Visual approach to another runway?
Recognizing your limitations and not beating a dead horse till you run out of gas?
If I canít land on this runway for whatever the reason Iíll request another runway or go to an alternate.
Doesnít matter if Chuck Yeager 3 miles in trail does make it in.
Point is that you need to maintain your situational awareness.
Again, act and respond as you would in real life.

Red Forman
11-21-2019, 09:25 AM
Go find a right seat 91/135 job and learn all you can.

No thank you.

Red Forman
11-21-2019, 09:34 AM
I know one guy who failed out of more than one regional and is a captain now somewhere.

Good grief!

METO Guido
11-22-2019, 09:03 AM
How would this help when the issue is not executing a visual approach to touchdown?
It wouldn't.

I'm going to make some theoretical assumptions for the sake of discussion and my own curiosity. I'm an initial, rating ride candidate who passed the AQP maneuvers validation yesterday. Today my sim training will be complete with a satisfactory line evaluation in real time. I'm pilot flying for this event. I have zero previous experience in jet, line operations. This is also my first exposure to e-flight bags on iPad. The flight plan is to an unfamiliar field and after dealing with a generator failure en route, we're advised to expect a charted visual to a lengthy runway. Field weather is above that required. After two attempts, I'm still unable to perform a stable approach to landing within the touchdown zone. So I state intentions to divert for a now min fuel alternate. Under what circumstances/guidance could that be considered a ride pass?

To the OP. Your notice of disapproval should indicate area(s) to be reexamined. Obtain a copy of all your training records. In this business, documentation rules. Go over everything available, good & bad, with someone who has relevant experience. Compose a narrative. Be real but provide credit for how you'd successfully proven yourself just to get that far and where you believe it unraveled. Pick up the pieces from there, from the perspective of the 'man in the chair.' The lady or guy who can green light a shot at your next paycheck. Would I hire me? Many have tripped along the road. For most of us, that wasn't anywhere close to an end.

GrabPopcorn
11-26-2019, 05:53 AM
I find it difficult to understand how a 121 (or any professional TO) allows untrained events to be checked.

GF

My thought exactly. Especially visual approaches. They're the most unstable and improperly done approaches that we do. I'll admit that I also didn't receive to be what I believed was sufficient training on visual approaches yet we were actually trained. They seem like a no-brainer at first, but as someone else pointed out, throw in simulator visuals and it could become a mess.

What airline is this anyway? We've ruled out Mesa.

TiredSoul
11-26-2019, 09:00 AM
A Charted Visual Approach is flown no differently then a VOR/VOR-DME approach with step down fixes.
Youíre maybe flying a heading instead of a radial. No difference really.
In any case you should be able to do one without any special training.

Now Iím thinking thereís more here.
An airline is financially vested in you for your training. Failing a type ride is cause for additional training and a re-check and not being given the choice to resign or get fired.
Youíve already mentioned you had used up all simulator events.
It may have been prudent to withdraw prior to the type ride.
Was that suggested at any point?
Im thinking this visual was just the last straw to drop the hammer.
Easy fail for the Examiner.
Am I wrong?

* Again, weíre not here to bash on you.
However....you need to be honest with yourself. This is not a fail because you werenít trained or because you havenít flown a jet before.

galaxy flyer
11-26-2019, 12:00 PM
Probably anyoneís FIRST landing is out of a visual approach in a C-172 or Cherokee. Pretty basic, but a jet does add a few wrinkles, when to slow, configuring, getting the 3-degree picture. By the time, youíre at an airline, the visual part should be a given, the jet part trained.

GF

METO Guido
11-27-2019, 06:34 AM
Some valuable info in this thread. Every non-Autoland/HUD approach transitions to visual at some point. Which can get sporty for old salts and noobs alike. Back when operators trained circle procedures, students got additional, fly without help practice, squeezed in the syllabus somewhere. Of course, that's another chance to demo go-around proficiency on rides. There are several, reliable techniques & cross check hacks for maintaining path and alignment in virtual reality without use of a flight director. The good news is, they work out pretty well in the world of no redo's too. I don't envy examiners and check airmen their ink pen nowadays.

captande
11-27-2019, 09:27 AM
Working through this, has me thinking. If this was an airline with AQP then your instructors shouldíve known a visual approach was possible. Since the checks are scripted and approved by the FAA and the company.

Failing a checkride and washing out isnít a game ender. Although how you present yourself, your attitude, and narrative from here forward can be.

TiredSoul
11-27-2019, 09:50 AM
Iím just thinking did you combine an ATP ride with the type rating ?
And the visual approach was part of the ATP portion?

Av8tor0773
11-27-2019, 10:22 AM
I just failed training with one of the regionals and busted my checkride. They asked me to resign which I did instead of getting fired. Now Iím wondering is my airline career over or do I still have hope ?

Iím curious... what regional?

Avgeek7248
11-27-2019, 11:52 AM
I know a lot of people here say Mesa is a crap hole and itís got its problems donít get me wrong but itís shining light is definitely its training department. They r rally. Work with you to get you through it. Great people here just like most airlines. If youíre like me and restricted from upgrading for two years and till you hit 23 then Iíd recommend trying to go to a higher paying regional just so your paycheck is a little better then mine each month. Just some advice youíll be fine just keep your head up learn from your experience and keep a positive attitude.

tailwheel48
11-27-2019, 12:53 PM
I'd agree with some previous posters that your best course of action is to get some experience at a Part 135 carrier; Empire, Cape Air, RAVN, Ameriflight, and give the regionals another shot in a year or so. Visual approaches are what you'll be doing more than anything else in real life. You stated that you're early 20's - you have plenty of time to right the ship!