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View Full Version : EDV vs. XJET vs. Envoy


Bigherc916
11-25-2019, 09:51 AM
Iím currently about 2 months from ATP mins with CJOís from EDV/ExpressJet/Envoy. Iíd like to be competitive for a slot at a Legacy asap so that Iím not at the backend of the current hiring wave (hence my hesitation of choosing Envoy). I love EDVís culture and work rules, but have concerns over the time itíll take to reach 1000 TPIC and the COL associated with living in NYC. Envoy seems to have slightly quicker upgrades and the potential to flow, but Iím concerned with flowing in about 10 years and being a FO at AA for a long, long time. ExpressJet seems like itís the quickest path to reach 1000 TPIC with the added benefit of knowing if Iíll have a seat at United (unlike the 5 year job interview that EDV offers) within my first year of working there. My concerns with ExpressJet are the poor work rules and pay. Any feedback is greatly appreciated!


whoareyou311
11-25-2019, 09:53 AM
Iím currently about 2 months from ATP mins with CJOís from EDV/ExpressJet/Envoy. Iíd like to be competitive for a slot at a Legacy asap so that Iím not at the backend of the current hiring wave (hence my hesitation of choosing Envoy). I love EDVís culture and work rules, but have concerns over the time itíll take to reach 1000 TPIC and the COL associated with living in NYC. Envoy seems to have slightly quicker upgrades and the potential to flow, but Iím concerned with flowing in about 10 years and being a FO at AA for a long, long time. ExpressJet seems like itís the quickest path to reach 1000 TPIC with the added benefit of knowing if Iíll have a seat at United (unlike the 5 year job interview that EDV offers) within my first year of working there. My concerns with ExpressJet are the poor work rules and pay. Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

Envoy and don't look back. That seems to be the best choice of those three.

localizer
11-25-2019, 09:54 AM
Iím currently about 2 months from ATP mins with CJOís from EDV/ExpressJet/Envoy. Iíd like to be competitive for a slot at a Legacy asap so that Iím not at the backend of the current hiring wave (hence my hesitation of choosing Envoy). I love EDVís culture and work rules, but have concerns over the time itíll take to reach 1000 TPIC and the COL associated with living in NYC. Envoy seems to have slightly quicker upgrades and the potential to flow, but Iím concerned with flowing in about 10 years and being a FO at AA for a long, long time. ExpressJet seems like itís the quickest path to reach 1000 TPIC with the added benefit of knowing if Iíll have a seat at United (unlike the 5 year job interview that EDV offers) within my first year of working there. My concerns with ExpressJet are the poor work rules and pay. Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

Have you considered Skywest and Republic? They are also options.


JuniorFO
11-25-2019, 09:58 AM
Envoy and don't look back. That seems to be the best choice of those three.

Envoy's contract is bottom of the barrel.

Bigherc916
11-25-2019, 10:01 AM
That’s a concern that I have as well. I feel like my work ethic is my strongest form of leverage in this industry, so waiting around for a flow that may or may not happen is leading me towards airlines such as ExpressJet..

Green Needles
11-25-2019, 10:08 AM
Thatís a concern that I have as well. I feel like my work ethic is my strongest form of leverage in this industry, so waiting around for a flow that may or may not happen is leading me towards airlines such as ExpressJet..

Oh, how idealistic you are young Padawan. Work ethic means jack schitt in a seniority system. If I were you, I'd go to PSA or Envoy. Have the AA job in your back pocket and go for Delta, United, or wherever else you want while you're there. I'd suggest you take another look at our culture and work rules before you "love them" and come here. 9E was the "gold standard", but Daddy D reminds us every day that we are second class citizens. If you live in NYC and really want to sit around on reserve not flying with a coin flip of a hazing process, EDV is the place to be. If you want to actually do things like move on, don't come here.

dera
11-25-2019, 10:21 AM
Envoy's contract is bottom of the barrel.

No it isn't, it's just above average at the regional level.

Meow1215
11-25-2019, 10:30 AM
Envoy, Endeavor, then ExpressJet and in that order. Honestly I wouldnít limit myself to these three. Republic, Skywest, and Air Whiskey will use you much more than XJT/9E and their training programs donít take near as long.

Shadre Reevis
11-25-2019, 10:32 AM
If you live east of the Rockies I'd choose Envoy or PSA. Where we have competitive pay rates and commutability, we severely lack in schedule flexibility, rigs, and upgrade time. If PIC is what you want, Envoy will upgrade you as soon as you have the time, whether you are ready or not. The DGI will take at least 5 years for new FOs and has been steadily running a 50% success rate. Current flow at ENY is 8.5 years and dropping AFAIK. I know where I'd go if I was just starting.

Flogger
11-25-2019, 11:46 AM
Oh, how idealistic you are young Padawan. Work ethic means jack schitt in a seniority system. If I were you, I'd go to PSA or Envoy. Have the AA job in your back pocket and go for Delta, United, or wherever else you want while you're there. I'd suggest you take another look at our culture and work rules before you "love them" and come here. 9E was the "gold standard", but Daddy D reminds us every day that we are second class citizens. If you live in NYC and really want to sit around on reserve not flying with a coin flip of a hazing process, EDV is the place to be. If you want to actually do things like move on, don't come here.

This is very good advice. To repeat: Go Envoy or PSA. Put up with the crap place to work and apply to all the Majors. Odds are good you will get hired somewhere before you flow, but at least you have the flow if some PRIA event or personal issue locks you into the regional.

9E is a great place to work, but the career progression to DL is a joke, just like the United program according to my friends at XJT.

If 9E comes up with a real flow, it would be a slamdunk decision to go to 9E.

mketch11
11-25-2019, 12:57 PM
No it isn't, it's just above average at the regional level.

You are literally the only poster on this forum that I can read their post and know itís you before I read the username.

TOGAwarrior
11-25-2019, 05:46 PM
Oh, how idealistic you are young Padawan. Work ethic means jack schitt in a seniority system. If I were you, I'd go to PSA or Envoy. Have the AA job in your back pocket and go for Delta, United, or wherever else you want while you're there. I'd suggest you take another look at our culture and work rules before you "love them" and come here. 9E was the "gold standard", but Daddy D reminds us every day that we are second class citizens. If you live in NYC and really want to sit around on reserve not flying with a coin flip of a hazing process, EDV is the place to be. If you want to actually do things like move on, don't come here.

Another thing to consider, the AA WO will always have flow off the top of the list. That will create movement your whole time there. Unlike here, where you will move up to a certain spot then it will come to a crawl. (like me) Also, since the top of the seniority list leaves that opens up opportunities for check airman, instructor, or management positions. Endeavor is a great place to work and I enjoy working here but the only reason I would recommend anyone to come here is if your a Propel graduate. The DGI is an epic failure.

dera
11-25-2019, 06:54 PM
You are literally the only poster on this forum that I can read their post and know itís you before I read the username.

When other regionals have contracts that allow them to deadhead their crews to other bases to sit standby, or where a displacement turns lineholders into reserves, I'd say Envoy contract isn't the bottom of the barrel.
There's lots that could be improved, but it is not the worst.

Baradium
11-25-2019, 07:30 PM
When other regionals have contracts that allow them to deadhead their crews to other bases to sit standby, or where a displacement turns lineholders into reserves, I'd say Envoy contract isn't the bottom of the barrel.
There's lots that could be improved, but it is not the worst.

There are regionals with contracts that don't allow displacements to turn lineholders into reserves?

Dorp
11-25-2019, 07:38 PM
Iím currently about 2 months from ATP mins with CJOís from EDV/ExpressJet/Envoy. Iíd like to be competitive for a slot at a Legacy asap so that Iím not at the backend of the current hiring wave (hence my hesitation of choosing Envoy). I love EDVís culture and work rules, but have concerns over the time itíll take to reach 1000 TPIC and the COL associated with living in NYC. Envoy seems to have slightly quicker upgrades and the potential to flow, but Iím concerned with flowing in about 10 years and being a FO at AA for a long, long time. ExpressJet seems like itís the quickest path to reach 1000 TPIC with the added benefit of knowing if Iíll have a seat at United (unlike the 5 year job interview that EDV offers) within my first year of working there. My concerns with ExpressJet are the poor work rules and pay. Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

If you donít wanna get your wig split, just match your needs with the regional that can offer them. Each one has their pros and cons. You wonít have to worry about ending up in the shu if you choose one over the others. Just keep bustin them weeks, little by little.

dera
11-25-2019, 07:40 PM
There are regionals with contracts that don't allow displacements to turn lineholders into reserves?

Just so we are on the same page with terminology, by displacements I meant displaced or lost flying for training, IOE, cancellations etc.

There are regionals where if you get displaced for IOE, those days turn into RAP. So lineholders can end up sitting airport standby because their 4-day was taken for IOE.

Baradium
11-25-2019, 08:12 PM
Just so we are on the same page with terminology, by displacements I meant displaced or lost flying for training, IOE, cancellations etc.

There are regionals where if you get displaced for IOE, those days turn into RAP. So lineholders can end up sitting airport standby because their 4-day was taken for IOE.

Yeah, we were on completely different pages. I've never heard of that referred to as "displaced" just "bought for OE" or "removed for OE" or just "bought off." Even when what was then Pinnacle required you to sit reserve they still told you that you were "bought off" it just didn't feel like it. It was a major point to get that into a contract so it really did mean "bought off" at 9E.

Shadre Reevis
11-26-2019, 03:11 AM
Yeah, we were on completely different pages. I've never heard of that referred to as "displaced" just "bought for OE" or "removed for OE" or just "bought off." Even when what was then Pinnacle required you to sit reserve they still told you that you were "bought off" it just didn't feel like it. It was a major point to get that into a contract so it really did mean "bought off" at 9E.Trip Displacement is the more specific term for what he's referring to. That portion of our contract is quite good compared to other regionals.

UnitedExpress
11-28-2019, 08:11 AM
XJT is great for getting thru training quickly and getting off of reserve very fast. Plus the added benefit of a United interview within the first year. E175s are very comfortable to fly. Iím enjoying it so far. All are good choices but I like where I am.

Gone Flying
11-28-2019, 11:00 AM
Just so we are on the same page with terminology, by displacements I meant displaced or lost flying for training, IOE, cancellations etc.

There are regionals where if you get displaced for IOE, those days turn into RAP. So lineholders can end up sitting airport standby because their 4-day was taken for IOE.

which regionals allow this? at OO we can be put on a trip but it must be in the footprint of our original trip and it is pay protected, you get the better of the 2 on a day by day basis. also we get whatever hotels we need associated with the displacement.

theUpsideDown
11-28-2019, 11:43 AM
which regionals allow this? at OO we can be put on a trip but it must be in the footprint of our original trip and it is pay protected, you get the better of the 2 on a day by day basis. also we get whatever hotels we need associated with the displacement.

Yuck. Get 250% or get bent.

Gone Flying
11-28-2019, 11:52 AM
Yuck. Get 250% or get bent.

we certainly get our money's worth out of SAPA on this one 😏😏

no doubt it is subpar and needs fixing, but every time i see the topic brought up company sympathizers (usually lifer CAs) shut down the conversation saying "JuSt BiD aVoId ChEcKaIrMeN". no one here is willing to fix it and the company is not willing to give it up as it is a productivity give and we have been streched very thin over the past few years.

dera
11-28-2019, 12:40 PM
which regionals allow this? at OO we can be put on a trip but it must be in the footprint of our original trip and it is pay protected, you get the better of the 2 on a day by day basis. also we get whatever hotels we need associated with the displacement.

CommutAir does this. It's called "conditional reserve" IIRC.

Gone Flying
11-28-2019, 03:05 PM
CommutAir does this. It's called "conditional reserve" IIRC.

well that sux. what is envoy's policy? can you be assigned work over a displacement or are you gaurenteed off with pay?

dera
11-28-2019, 05:05 PM
well that sux. what is envoy's policy? can you be assigned work over a displacement or are you gaurenteed off with pay?

Can be reassigned up until noon the day prior within the same footprint, and you are pay protected.

DoSomePilotStuf
11-28-2019, 06:27 PM
I can only speak to my specific situation. I was successful with my Aviate interview last month. I have a CJO to move over to United in as little as 2 years. Without working at ExpressJet none of that would be possible. There are no amount of work rules or pay that could cause me to leave my present position for AA flow or DGI and itís not even close. The current opportunity at ExpressJet is extremely rare and coming onto this forum wonít convey that possibility. There arenít enough on here who have had that opportunity. The vast majority have been at XJT for 10+ years and donít have a solid plan of getting out.

itsmytime
11-28-2019, 09:33 PM
I can only speak to my specific situation. I was successful with my Aviate interview last month. I have a CJO to move over to United in as little as 2 years. Without working at ExpressJet none of that would be possible. There are no amount of work rules or pay that could cause me to leave my present position for AA flow or DGI and itís not even close. The current opportunity at ExpressJet is extremely rare and coming onto this forum wonít convey that possibility. There arenít enough on here who have had that opportunity. The vast majority have been at XJT for 10+ years and donít have a solid plan of getting out.

Well duh. Moving over to a wholly owned to wait 5+ years for a flow would be epically stupid when you have a CJO to United in 2 years.

Duck Sausage
11-28-2019, 09:44 PM
Hi my name is what my name is

DoSomePilotStuf
11-29-2019, 07:13 AM
Well duh. Moving over to a wholly owned to wait 5+ years for a flow would be epically stupid when you have a CJO to United in 2 years.

My point was the OP seems pretty confident in his ability to do well in the interview. What reason does he have to believe he wonít have the same result?