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UnprotectdPilot
01-06-2020, 03:02 AM
Welcome to 2020, Year of the Cost-Neutral Contract Negotiations.

No more CRJs.
More new 175s.
Possible used CPZ 175s.
No more protected pilots.

Here's to hoping for a higher flow rate and improved reserve rules! Cheers.


UncreativeUser
01-06-2020, 06:25 AM
Welcome to 2020, Year of the Cost-Neutral Contract Negotiations.



No more CRJs.

More new 175s.

Possible used CPZ 175s.

No more protected pilots.



Here's to hoping for a higher flow rate and improved reserve rules! Cheers.



Cheers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pitchattitude
01-06-2020, 06:49 AM
Welcome to 2020, Year of the Cost-Neutral Contract Negotiations.

No more CRJs.
More new 175s.
Possible used CPZ 175s.
No more protected pilots.

Here's to hoping for a higher flow rate and improved reserve rules! Cheers.
And the first quarter that didnít begin with a vacancy.


f16jetmech
01-06-2020, 04:10 PM
And the first quarter that didnít begin with a vacancy.

Why do you remind me of this unfortunate reality? I worked so hard for my times 😭😭

FlyGuy2112
01-07-2020, 08:51 AM
So someone I know interviewed for the east coast cheif pilot position. They were specifically looking for someone in Miami as theyíll be manning that office. According to them, during the interview process management said Miami will see a significant increase in flying in 2020 and they are prepping now for the growth. Hence the new Miami Cheif pilot position.

dera
01-07-2020, 08:56 AM
So someone I know interviewed for the east coast cheif pilot position. They were specifically looking for someone in Miami as theyíll be manning that office. According to them, during the interview process management said Miami will see a significant increase in flying in 2020 and they are prepping now for the growth. Hence the new Miami Cheif pilot position.

Was it the same guy they interviewed for the LAX chief pilot spot? :D

Varsity
01-07-2020, 08:57 AM
So someone I know interviewed for the east coast cheif pilot position. They were specifically looking for someone in Miami as theyíll be manning that office. According to them, during the interview process management said Miami will see a significant increase in flying in 2020 and they are prepping now for the growth. Hence the new Miami Cheif pilot position.

Not accurate. Miami is set at 50-65 lines for the foreseeable future. It will probably drop when the max comes back.

The 175 will see increased flying in New York, AAG is trying to get single class RJ's out of business markets.

Cyio
01-07-2020, 08:58 AM
Anyone able to share what seniority number a DCL would need to hold a decent commutable line?

FlyGuy2112
01-07-2020, 10:09 AM
Not accurate. Miami is set at 50-65 lines for the foreseeable future. It will probably drop when the max comes back.

The 175 will see increased flying in New York, AAG is trying to get single class RJ's out of business markets.

Source?......

pitchattitude
01-07-2020, 10:27 AM
Anyone able to share what seniority number a DCL would need to hold a decent commutable line?
I’m just short of three years and can’t hold a line DCL and will be loosing relative seniority at least the next four months so will be over three years to see a line.

Cyio
01-07-2020, 11:20 AM
Iím just short of three years and canít hold a line DCL and will be loosing relative seniority at least the next four months so will be over three years to see a line.

Good god seriously? Well there goes that idea for awhile lol.

dera
01-07-2020, 11:41 AM
Good god seriously? Well there goes that idea for awhile lol.

Most junior DCL lineholder for January is a 12/2016 hire. It's a somewhat commutable line.

THKooj
01-07-2020, 01:34 PM
Not accurate. Miami is set at 50-65 lines for the foreseeable future. It will probably drop when the max comes back.

The 175 will see increased flying in New York, AAG is trying to get single class RJ's out of business markets.

No. You aren't accurate. Previous poster correct. MIA set to grow.

6ix9ineYearFlow
01-14-2020, 06:36 AM
No. You aren't accurate. Previous poster correct. MIA set to grow.

You make a lot of assertions and have a lot of insider information for someone that allegedly flowed to AA. Time to go back to TalkAirline and rattle off the 2021 paranoia.

Cyio
01-14-2020, 08:45 AM
Damn I wish I worked for Delta. Average bonus payout equal to two months pay. Cant wait to see what we get lol.

buddies8
01-14-2020, 09:18 AM
You make a lot of assertions and have a lot of insider information for someone that allegedly flowed to AA. Time to go back to TalkAirline and rattle off the 2021 paranoia.
no, no please dont force him to do that.

Chato
01-16-2020, 01:12 PM
So whos got a sneak peak at the numbers for the next vacancy bid

THKooj
01-17-2020, 04:41 AM
You make a lot of assertions and have a lot of insider information for someone that allegedly flowed to AA. Time to go back to TalkAirline and rattle off the 2021 paranoia.

I wouldn't waste my time with a forum that is long vacant and dusty where someone just forgot to turn out the lights. There is one guy there in that empty house ranting about 2021 to nothing but echoes. He has no idea at all what is happening now much less in 2021. I've got news. 2020 AS WELL AS 2021 are going to be stunning for Envoy both in the amount of growth and the flow dropping to a very, very low number in years from new hire date to flow.

pitchattitude
01-17-2020, 09:32 AM
I wouldn't waste my time with a forum that is long vacant and dusty where someone just forgot to turn out the lights. There is one guy there in that empty house ranting about 2021 to nothing but echoes. He has no idea at all what is happening now much less in 2021. I've got news. 2020 AS WELL AS 2021 are going to be stunning for Envoy both in the amount of growth and the flow dropping to a very, very low number in years from new hire date to flow.
So please, all knowing one. EXPLAIN HOW the flow can drastically be cut for new hires when twice as many are being hired as flow. If you have all this inside knowledge just show the math.

THKooj
01-17-2020, 12:30 PM
So please, all knowing one. EXPLAIN HOW the flow can drastically be cut for new hires when twice as many are being hired as flow. If you have all this inside knowledge just show the math.

Simple. Retirements. Go take a look at the AA retirements over the next 3 years alone and get back to me. The flow will be enhanced greatly. For one, look at the loads of pipeline instructor talent Envoy has on the sideline matriculating in as fast as training can CURRENTLY process them. Those guys are being hired for American Airlines and as I've said before, Envoy has the corner market on the pipeline program. It has proven to be the best thing since sliced bread. I'm personally an advocate of Envoy hiring ONLY pipeline candidates. Why hire a military guy who just needs to get the 121 time on the resume and will leave soon after? Or, is it necessary to hire Jim Bob Moses who has been flying a Baron for Wildcatter Oil as an Envoy/AA pilot? The answer is no. He doesn't fit the mold at all. And with the pipeline numbers in the waiting room, there are your AA pilots.

tommy2times
01-17-2020, 12:40 PM
Simple. Retirements. Go take a look at the AA retirements over the next 3 years alone and get back to me. The flow will be enhanced greatly. For one, look at the loads of pipeline instructor talent Envoy has on the sideline matriculating in as fast as training can CURRENTLY process them. Those guys are being hired for American Airlines and as I've said before, Envoy has the corner market on the pipeline program. It has proven to be the best thing since sliced bread. I'm personally an advocate of Envoy hiring ONLY pipeline candidates. Why hire a military guy who just needs to get the 121 time on the resume and will leave soon after? Or, is it necessary to hire Jim Bob Moses who has been flying a Baron for Wildcatter Oil as an Envoy/AA pilot? The answer is no. He doesn't fit the mold at all. And with the pipeline numbers in the waiting room, there are your AA pilots.

THKooj,

Can you please have a meeting with your contacts to give us ďThe EnvoyĒ pilots an AA # now, so we donít jump ship for a moms and pops joint like an ACMI or ULCC.

Varsity
01-17-2020, 12:52 PM
No. You aren't accurate. Previous poster correct. MIA set to grow.

According to the new vacancy, you're wrong.

You're a sock/troll account anyways.

speedbrakearmed
01-17-2020, 01:01 PM
Anyways, to get this forum back on track, any potential New Hires can expect the 175.

102 175 FO slots
55 145 FO slots
Nothing for NY either, not that it'd be hard to transfer there if you want it.

pitchattitude
01-17-2020, 02:15 PM
Simple. Retirements. Go take a look at the AA retirements over the next 3 years alone and get back to me. The flow will be enhanced greatly. For one, look at the loads of pipeline instructor talent Envoy has on the sideline matriculating in as fast as training can CURRENTLY process them. Those guys are being hired for American Airlines and as I've said before, Envoy has the corner market on the pipeline program. It has proven to be the best thing since sliced bread. I'm personally an advocate of Envoy hiring ONLY pipeline candidates. Why hire a military guy who just needs to get the 121 time on the resume and will leave soon after? Or, is it necessary to hire Jim Bob Moses who has been flying a Baron for Wildcatter Oil as an Envoy/AA pilot? The answer is no. He doesn't fit the mold at all. And with the pipeline numbers in the waiting room, there are your AA pilots.
You are not wrong that AA needs more pilots. No one will debate that. But NONE of the majors have a problem hiring enough people.
Everyone knows the flow is not to staff AA.
That doesnít explain the math of how Envoy gets them there. Especially doesnít explain how you can decrease the amount of time when hiring twice as many as flowing.

But with the new vacancy, as well as the line count forecast, just proved you wrong about MIA, so I guess your info is, as everyone has said, nothing but BS propaganda.

You admitted you were a little bit of a KoolAid drinker. Maybe you need your memory refreshed. There were only a few that survived and they DIDNíT drink the KoolAid. They escaped. So you just keep chug a lugging.

Tyrion
01-17-2020, 02:17 PM
Anyways, to get this forum back on track, any potential New Hires can expect the 175.

102 175 FO slots
55 145 FO slots
Nothing for NY either, not that it'd be hard to transfer there if you want it.

Those slots are more for facilitating base transfers. They can quickly become meaningless when new hires show up to class. New hires should still expect ORD 175 and LGA 145 for the near future.

AV8R72
01-17-2020, 05:24 PM
Those slots are more for facilitating base transfers. They can quickly become meaningless when new hires show up to class. New hires should still expect ORD 175 and LGA 145 for the near future.

LGA has more than double the FOs as lines. LGA is as overstaffed as possible.

rkd19
01-17-2020, 06:19 PM
Simple. Retirements. Go take a look at the AA retirements over the next 3 years alone and get back to me. The flow will be enhanced greatly. For one, look at the loads of pipeline instructor talent Envoy has on the sideline matriculating in as fast as training can CURRENTLY process them. Those guys are being hired for American Airlines and as I've said before, Envoy has the corner market on the pipeline program. It has proven to be the best thing since sliced bread. I'm personally an advocate of Envoy hiring ONLY pipeline candidates. Why hire a military guy who just needs to get the 121 time on the resume and will leave soon after? Or, is it necessary to hire Jim Bob Moses who has been flying a Baron for Wildcatter Oil as an Envoy/AA pilot? The answer is no. He doesn't fit the mold at all. And with the pipeline numbers in the waiting room, there are your AA pilots.

Except the fact that AA released numbers for hiring and it accounts for 20/month flow from Envoy and massive off the street hiring. So who's lying, you or AA?

AV8R72
01-17-2020, 07:09 PM
Except the fact that AA released numbers for hiring and it accounts for 20/month flow from Envoy and massive off the street hiring. So who's lying, you or AA?

The question is will AA start hiring more from MQ. Thatís the only way a 5-6 year flow makes sense

MEGAFUPM
01-17-2020, 07:44 PM
The question is will AA start hiring more from MQ. Thatís the only way a 5-6 year flow makes sense

Envoy pilots getting hired off the street decreases flow, not increase. Since we will be flowing based on the lower of a percentage of pilots on the seniority list. If we got all the way down to 480 pilots at Envoy it would still be an 8 year flow, becauce it's the lesser of pilots on property or based on 25% of Americans hiring, not the greater of. After DOS guys leaving above you does nothing to help your flow date.

Tyrion
01-17-2020, 11:58 PM
LGA has more than double the FOs as lines. LGA is as overstaffed as possible.

Right, but with this bid, several LGA FO's will transfer to other bases leaving backfills to be filled by new hires. Every FO position has at least 1 reserve for every 2 lineholders. Over staffing is the Envoy way.

pitchattitude
01-18-2020, 04:54 AM
Right, but with this bid, several LGA FO's will transfer to other bases leaving backfills to be filled by new hires. Every FO position has at least 1 reserve for every 2 lineholders. Over staffing is the Envoy way.
Not just over staffing. Inefficiency is the Envoy way. Considering how cheap the company is, the way it inefficiently staffs tells just how cheaply we are compensated.

moon
01-18-2020, 05:42 AM
Envoy pilots getting hired off the street decreases flow, not increase. Since we will be flowing based on the lower of a percentage of pilots on the seniority list. If we got all the way down to 480 pilots at Envoy it would still be an 8 year flow, becauce it's the lesser of pilots on property or based on 25% of Americans hiring, not the greater of. After DOS guys leaving above you does nothing to help your flow date.


Pilots leaving on top of you will speed the flow if Management can keep up with the attrition with new hires. If they cant then pilots leaving either side of you will theoretically slow your flow date.

MEGAFUPM
01-18-2020, 06:33 AM
Pilots leaving on top of you will speed the flow if Management can keep up with the attrition with new hires. If they cant then pilots leaving either side of you will theoretically slow your flow date.

Correct. If they can keep new hire rates higher than attrtition your flow will stay the same/be quicker. However if they can't keep up with attrtition your flow will slow down. We'll just have to see what happens this year.

Cyio
01-18-2020, 06:43 AM
Correct. If they can keep new hire rates higher than attrtition your flow will stay the same/be quicker. However if they can't keep up with attrtition your flow will slow down. We'll just have to see what happens this year.
Do you by chance know the seniority numbers that are flowing? Would be a good gauge to determine time frames.

pitchattitude
01-18-2020, 06:46 AM
Envoy pilots getting hired off the street decreases flow, not increase. Since we will be flowing based on the lower of a percentage of pilots on the seniority list. If we got all the way down to 480 pilots at Envoy it would still be an 8 year flow, becauce it's the lesser of pilots on property or based on 25% of Americans hiring, not the greater of. After DOS guys leaving above you does nothing to help your flow date.
Everyoneís argument for decreased flow time donít take into account the facts of this flow formula. As body count goes down, so does flow. And to the best of my knowledge, the arbitrated adjustment of a few per month of the PPs and the increase to the 10/11 group, adjustments to flow donít affect current groups, any new agreements will affect new pilots. And there is still a lot of pilots that will have to flow at the lower rates.

MEGAFUPM
01-18-2020, 06:50 AM
Everyoneís argument for decreased flow time donít take into account the facts of this flow formula. As body count goes down, so does flow. And to the best of my knowledge, the arbitrated adjustment of a few per month of the PPs and the increase to the 10/11 group, adjustments to flow donít affect current groups, any new agreements will affect new pilots. And there is still a lot of pilots that will have to flow at the lower rates.

There could definitely be a new flow agreement that affects DOS pilots, we'll just have to see what happens, especially with the opener this year. But generally it's either been better pay/QOL or more flow, not both.

MEGAFUPM
01-18-2020, 06:58 AM
Do you by chance know the seniority numbers that are flowing? Would be a good gauge to determine time frames.

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but you can check the flow through selection page on the envoy website under flight.

Cyio
01-18-2020, 07:11 AM
Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but you can check the flow through selection page on the envoy website under flight.
I couldn't find what I was looking for. Interested in at what seniority level people are actually getting picked to go at. Is it 300, 400, 250 etc. I dont have the names/emplyee numbers in front of me to look and see.

MD-11Loader
01-18-2020, 07:22 AM
Do you by chance know the seniority numbers that are flowing? Would be a good gauge to determine time frames.

Those who had the next class date as well as everyone who has been selected for flow were highlighted in the document that the union posted last week on the ALPA website including their seniority numbers.

Cyio
01-18-2020, 08:00 AM
Those who had the next class date as well as everyone who has been selected for flow were highlighted in the document that the union posted last week on the ALPA website including their seniority numbers.
Thanks for that, sadly looking like 200's range is where we need to be to flow out. That is a long road to look down for a new hire coming in at 2000.

MEGAFUPM
01-18-2020, 08:31 AM
Thanks for that, sadly looking like 200's range is where we need to be to flow out. That is a long road to look down for a new hire coming in at 2000.

The only redeeming/hopeful factor is the fact over half our pilots have been on property for 2 years or less. I think 2020 will be very telling in how the next 3-5 years will play out.

BrntToast
01-18-2020, 09:18 AM
Try to be positive.Things are so much better for everyone on property now, and I know it will continue to improve. I’m flowing next week. Good luck to everyone. Keep improving our workplace. Honestly, I see why some people stay, making 6 figures, on brand new equipment, 16-18 days off, completely commutable schedule, OT 150-200%. I’ve had that for nearly the last 2 years. Now it’s your turn. I’m out of your way. Time to be bottom of 15,000, covering 3 bases in a crashpad.

pitchattitude
01-18-2020, 11:08 AM
Thanks for that, sadly looking like 200's range is where we need to be to flow out. That is a long road to look down for a new hire coming in at 2000.
You mean a new hire coming in at 2500 plus.

THKooj
01-18-2020, 11:46 AM
You are not wrong that AA needs more pilots. No one will debate that. But NONE of the majors have a problem hiring enough people.
Everyone knows the flow is not to staff AA.
That doesnít explain the math of how Envoy gets them there. Especially doesnít explain how you can decrease the amount of time when hiring twice as many as flowing.

But with the new vacancy, as well as the line count forecast, just proved you wrong about MIA, so I guess your info is, as everyone has said, nothing but BS propaganda.

You admitted you were a little bit of a KoolAid drinker. Maybe you need your memory refreshed. There were only a few that survived and they DIDNíT drink the KoolAid. They escaped. So you just keep chug a lugging.

Nope. Not wrong about anything. It's strategic. In other words, getting the bodies where they need to be first. MIA expansion will happen. Just not on your timetable.

dera
01-18-2020, 12:39 PM
You mean a new hire coming in at 2500 plus.

Just over 2400 at the moment. It will take a long time to hit 2500.

pitchattitude
01-18-2020, 01:03 PM
Just over 2400 at the moment. It will take a long time to hit 2500.
Actual body count is closer to 2400. But seniority numbers, depending on when you look at it and the source reaches 2600.

pitchattitude
01-18-2020, 01:06 PM
Nope. Not wrong about anything. It's strategic. In other words, getting the bodies where they need to be first. MIA expansion will happen. Just not on your timetable.
I donít have a timetable. How long do we have to wait for YOUR time table, BRAH? You have never explained how the flow is going to get to the level you claim. Put up or SHUT UP, troll.

dera
01-18-2020, 02:23 PM
Actual body count is closer to 2400. But seniority numbers, depending on when you look at it and the source reaches 2600.

DECS numbers don't matter. They always run behind. The actual body count is what matters for flow.

Aeromech
01-18-2020, 06:31 PM
Try to be positive.Things are so much better for everyone on property now, and I know it will continue to improve. Iím flowing next week. Good luck to everyone. Keep improving our workplace. Honestly, I see why some people stay, making 6 figures, on brand new equipment, 16-18 days off, completely commutable schedule, OT 150-200%. Iíve had that for nearly the last 2 years. Now itís your turn. Iím out of your way. Time to be bottom of 15,000, covering 3 bases in a crashpad.The one positive post in a sea of negativity!

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

CaseTractor
01-21-2020, 06:26 AM
After spending hours highlighting important info to study in the FM1, and to operate safely, I'm feeling super jaded that the company decided to take "extreme ownership" and push a new version with the only real change that M H uniforms are the only authorized uniform. That's real value added.

does the AA FM1 go down to that detail?

I feel this is posturing for something being preceded by all the HI6 messages. You're not wearing the wrong belt, you are operating the aircraft against the FM1 policy in your disciplinary letter.

its frustrating when 99% have good intentions, but it creates a divide for those who do have good will and intentions.

skyemiles2
01-21-2020, 05:20 PM
Thanks for that, sadly looking like 200's range is where we need to be to flow out. That is a long road to look down for a new hire coming in at 2000.

I've been messing around with the data while bored on reserve and for a newer hire that number is more like 90, due to projected retirements at the top of the list.

Cyio
01-21-2020, 06:08 PM
I've been messing around with the data while bored on reserve and for a newer hire that number is more like 90, due to projected retirements at the top of the list.
So you are saying the seniority number to flow for a new hire today is going to be 90? Guess I am not following.

dera
01-21-2020, 06:15 PM
So you are saying the seniority number to flow for a new hire today is going to be 90? Guess I am not following.

I think his logic forgets the fact that we have lifers on the list who haven't hit the flow line yet. So they will replace, with some unknown ratio, the people senior to 180-ish right now.

But seriously
01-22-2020, 02:27 AM
I've been messing around with the data while bored on reserve and for a newer hire that number is more like 90, due to projected retirements at the top of the list.

Not all pilots on the list retire at 65. Some stay on as training or management pilots.

Itís also going to be hard to predict now that the company can withhold pilots from flowing for disciplinary action. Itís new, so no one has any idea really how the company is going to treat that.

skyemiles2
01-22-2020, 03:48 AM
So you are saying the seniority number to flow for a new hire today is going to be 90? Guess I am not following.

There-ish . Based on a *straight* calculation of retirements from those not flowing, meaning it excludes the exceptions others are pointing out.

This is for a newer hire, so people who are higher up will have a higher number closer to 200. Newer pilots will have a lower number as that group ages out.

In order to keep the number at 200ish, a back of the scratch paper doodle says 4-6%ish or so would have to decline to flow, but I havenít had coffee yet and I donít have my laptop so Iím going off of memory.

If someone wants to help get me better data (it can be historical) I can make better models.

Cyio
01-22-2020, 07:23 AM
There-ish . Based on a *straight* calculation of retirements from those not flowing, meaning it excludes the exceptions others are pointing out.

This is for a newer hire, so people who are higher up will have a higher number closer to 200. Newer pilots will have a lower number as that group ages out.

In order to keep the number at 200ish, a back of the scratch paper doodle says 4-6%ish or so would have to decline to flow, but I havenít had coffee yet and I donít have my laptop so Iím going off of memory.

If someone wants to help get me better data (it can be historical) I can make better models.
So, lets say you are correct and it stays at 100. That would mean someone coming in today with would be looking at about 2300 people to go before they flow. If we average it out to 20 a month that is a 9.5 year flow, assuming averages and my morning math is correct. I also understand this doesn't account for attrition. Matches pretty close to the union flow plan to be honest.

LowvalueFO
01-22-2020, 08:49 AM
So, lets say you are correct and it stays at 100. That would mean someone coming in today with would be looking at about 2300 people to go before they flow. If we average it out to 20 a month that is a 9.5 year flow, assuming averages and my morning math is correct. I also understand this doesn't account for attrition. Matches pretty close to the union flow plan to be honest.

I agree with general math. I don't think peeps will stick around in the current hiring climate.

skyemiles2
01-22-2020, 09:20 AM
So, lets say you are correct and it stays at 100. That would mean someone coming in today with would be looking at about 2300 people to go before they flow. If we average it out to 20 a month that is a 9.5 year flow, assuming averages and my morning math is correct. I also understand this doesn't account for attrition. Matches pretty close to the union flow plan to be honest.

Thatís the straight math that the union uses, correct, which is basically worst case scenario assuming AA is hiring. (So not actually worst case scenario as some here know all too well.)

In the current environment, attrition is really the only significant factor here. My hunch is that the others kind of wash out into error, but I havenít really studied that closely.

As you move closer (3 years and below) the attrition ahead of you decreases significantly. Thatís what Iíve been tinkering with to get closer to actual projections based on tenure instead of the companyís optimism and the unionís. Itís not ready for prime time yet though since I need to figure out some way to make it sustainable.

Iím relying on the union email as well as seniority lists to tell me attrition, so actual data is spotty at best.

I think 2020 will be a telling year.

moon
01-22-2020, 09:22 AM
So, lets say you are correct and it stays at 100. That would mean someone coming in today with would be looking at about 2300 people to go before they flow. If we average it out to 20 a month that is a 9.5 year flow, assuming averages and my morning math is correct. I also understand this doesn't account for attrition. Matches pretty close to the union flow plan to be honest.

Its basically 10% of the pilot group per year after DOS. It will always hover around 9.5 to 10 years projected for a new hire doesn't matter how many are on property for a new hire projection.

uavking
01-30-2020, 12:39 PM
Today's gift from AAG (to #SkyBest):

"New flying contract with American for 20 new E175 aircraft

SkyWest awarded 20 aircraft under a ten-year contract, with the anticipated delivery of ten aircraft in late 2020 and ten aircraft during the first half of 2021
SkyWest anticipates financing the aircraft through debt
Financial terms of the contract were not disclosed"


https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/skywest-inc-announces-fourth-quarter-2019-profit-300996491.html

tommy2times
01-30-2020, 12:49 PM
Today's gift from AAG (to #SkyBest):

"New flying contract with American for 20 new E175 aircraft

SkyWest awarded 20 aircraft under a ten-year contract, with the anticipated delivery of ten aircraft in late 2020 and ten aircraft during the first half of 2021
SkyWest anticipates financing the aircraft through debt
Financial terms of the contract were not disclosed"


https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/skywest-inc-announces-fourth-quarter-2019-profit-300996491.html

A very sad day for the WO!

smtx123
01-30-2020, 12:52 PM
Today's gift from AAG (to #SkyBest):

"New flying contract with American for 20 new E175 aircraft

SkyWest awarded 20 aircraft under a ten-year contract, with the anticipated delivery of ten aircraft in late 2020 and ten aircraft during the first half of 2021
SkyWest anticipates financing the aircraft through debt
Financial terms of the contract were not disclosed"


https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/skywest-inc-announces-fourth-quarter-2019-profit-300996491.html

So that still leaves the 20 at CPZ...

Foggles
02-01-2020, 04:07 PM
So that still leaves the 20 at CPZ...

Iíve never seen a group of pilots more eager to send their fellow pilots to the street than Envoy. Every pilot is a pawn in corporateís game. Get your time and get out of the regionals. Donít step on each otherís necks along the way. Those days are behind every single one of you.

The flow changed who you are as an airline and itís disappointing to see.

CLE to IAH
02-01-2020, 05:31 PM
Iíve never seen a group of pilots more eager to send their fellow pilots to the street than Envoy. Every pilot is a pawn in corporateís game. Get your time and get out of the regionals. Donít step on each otherís necks along the way. Those days are behind every single one of you.

The flow changed who you are as an airline and itís disappointing to see.
:rolleyes:



filler.

3400
02-02-2020, 01:24 PM
Iíve never seen a group of pilots more eager to send their fellow pilots to the street than Envoy. Every pilot is a pawn in corporateís game. Get your time and get out of the regionals. Donít step on each otherís necks along the way. Those days are behind every single one of you.

The flow changed who you are as an airline and itís disappointing to see.

Show us on the doll where Envoy hurt you.

FlyGuy2112
02-02-2020, 03:32 PM
Iíve never seen a group of pilots more eager to send their fellow pilots to the street than Envoy. Every pilot is a pawn in corporateís game. Get your time and get out of the regionals. Donít step on each otherís necks along the way. Those days are behind every single one of you.

The flow changed who you are as an airline and itís disappointing to see.

weíre not sending you to the street. Just to the bottom of the envoy seniority list 😂

Foggles
02-03-2020, 05:20 AM
weíre not sending you to the street. Just to the bottom of the envoy seniority list 😂

You want that for your fellow ALPA pilots?

Cyio
02-03-2020, 05:51 AM
You want that for your fellow ALPA pilots?
Nope, but I also donít want someone that chose the wrong place to work to jump in on top of me after I have worked through the crappy times here, slowing down my flow. My lenders and family are indifferent to a Compass pilots woes.

In a perfect world we would all move together but at this regional level it seems to be pretty cut throat and every man/women for themselves. If you think for a minute that someone would give up a flow slot or delay their flow even for a few months just to help out a fellow ALPA compass pilot, you will be disappointed. This is all carefully orchestrated at the mainline level, so donít take anything I say personally.

Cujo665
02-03-2020, 06:06 AM
Show us on the doll where Envoy hurt you.

daCuj.... that you? Same words posted on another forum. How many screen names you got???
Maybe just stole it from ya...

Foggles
02-03-2020, 06:43 AM
Show us on the doll where Envoy hurt you.

They havenít, and wonít.

buddies8
02-03-2020, 11:11 AM
Show us on the doll where Envoy hurt you.
changed your user name again I see.
moderator, how many accounts is one allowed.

3400
02-03-2020, 06:52 PM
daCuj.... that you? Same words posted on another forum. How many screen names you got???
Maybe just stole it from ya...

Uhhh yeah he must have. My accountís probably been around longer than his.

deraa
02-03-2020, 07:52 PM
Anyone notice an uptick in invites to AA off the street? I read on other groups that AA is changing the recruitment process to make it more efficient. Seems like a bunch of SKW/CP folks are receiving interviews and offers. Hopefully our people are receiving the same considering our dedication to AA exclusively.

black cat
02-03-2020, 08:00 PM
Anyone notice an uptick in invites to AA off the street? I read on other groups that AA is changing the recruitment process to make it more efficient. Seems like a bunch of SKW/CP folks are receiving interviews and offers. Hopefully our people are receiving the same considering our dedication to AA exclusively.

We are hiring 1,400 pilots this year. About 70% of those hires will be street hires. A recruiter told me that they don't really care what airlines they hire from off the street. It's all strictly based off of resumťs and networking.

THKooj
02-04-2020, 04:51 AM
daCuj.... that you? Same words posted on another forum. How many screen names you got???
Maybe just stole it from ya...

Nope, not me. I'm very surprised you didn't twist your post into a sales pitch for Omni. It seems that you have been lowered to only selling yard sale items now while I'm selling the brand new Tesla here. Who do you think will have an easier time? Yep, you got it, me. I have no problem selling American Airlines while you continue to hang out on the corner with a trenchcoat trying to sell knockoff watches. Take that to your next training event.

ninerdriver
02-04-2020, 05:25 AM
Nope, not me. I'm very surprised you didn't twist your post into a sales pitch for Omni. It seems that you have been lowered to only selling yard sale items now while I'm selling the brand new Tesla here. Who do you think will have an easier time? Yep, you got it, me. I have no problem selling American Airlines while you continue to hang out on the corner with a trenchcoat trying to sell knockoff watches. Take that to your next training event.
https://i.imgflip.com/3o4tkd.jpg

Chato
02-04-2020, 06:34 AM
Nope, not me. I'm very surprised you didn't twist your post into a sales pitch for Omni. It seems that you have been lowered to only selling yard sale items now while I'm selling the brand new Tesla here. Who do you think will have an easier time? Yep, you got it, me. I have no problem selling American Airlines while you continue to hang out on the corner with a trenchcoat trying to sell knockoff watches. Take that to your next training event.


ROTFL this guy. :D bruhhh SNL is waiting for you

pitchattitude
02-04-2020, 07:19 AM
Nope, not me. I'm very surprised you didn't twist your post into a sales pitch for Omni. It seems that you have been lowered to only selling yard sale items now while I'm selling the brand new Tesla here. Who do you think will have an easier time? Yep, you got it, me. I have no problem selling American Airlines while you continue to hang out on the corner with a trenchcoat trying to sell knockoff watches. Take that to your next training event.
Brah.

Ironic you use the selling a car analogy.

You may be selling a Tesla, but itís typical car sales tactics. Smoke and mirrors, bait and switch. You THINK youíre buying a Tesla, but youíre getting a Yugo. And youíre going to be paying on that loan for 7-9 years.

JustAsking
02-04-2020, 02:13 PM
We are hiring 1,400 pilots this year. About 70% of those hires will be street hires. A recruiter told me that they don't really care what airlines they hire from off the street. It's all strictly based off of resumťs and networking.So how many of these "street hires" are AA WO guys applying outside the flow? And if that's the case, why doesn't everyone apply "Just in case"?

havick206
02-04-2020, 02:31 PM
So how many of these "street hires" are AA WO guys applying outside the flow? And if that's the case, why doesn't everyone apply "Just in case"?

people are lazy when you have the flow, itís human nature that the WOís counting on.

Pedro4President
02-04-2020, 02:46 PM
people are lazy when you have the flow, itís human nature that the WOís counting on.

For a while AA hired very few OTS. When they see the flood gates open then I bet people will start doing what they need to to get out of here.

THKooj
02-04-2020, 05:23 PM
For a while AA hired very few OTS. When they see the flood gates open then I bet people will start doing what they need to to get out of here.

What about you Chief? What are YOU doing to get "out of here?" Kind of hypocritical if you are banking on the flow just trying to talk those above you out of the career of a lifetime.

johnboat
02-04-2020, 06:40 PM
What about you Chief? What are YOU doing to get "out of here?" Kind of hypocritical if you are banking on the flow just trying to talk those above you out of the career of a lifetime.


I didnít see anywhere where he was trying to talk anyone out of Delta...

Gooch
02-04-2020, 09:20 PM
Teslaís blindly drive into barriers head on, have batteries that explode, and are made out of flimsy plastic. Poor choice of a analogy.

inevitableneb
02-05-2020, 07:53 AM
Teslaís blindly drive into barriers head on, have batteries that explode, and are made out of flimsy plastic. Poor choice of a analogy.
Says a guy who has never driven a tesla

Chato
02-05-2020, 09:01 AM
Says a guy who has never driven a tesla

try going on a roadtrip in a Tesla, that 200 mile range wont get u too far

6ix9ineYearFlow
02-06-2020, 06:34 AM
Hmm. Look more professional than AA pilots? AHAHAHAHAHA. Seeing as weíre pretending to be AA at an extremely discounted labor rate, Iím feeling like the only way Iíd be inspired to heed this call to action is if we had AA seniority numbers.

https://i.imgur.com/RNlBhar.jpg

buddies8
02-06-2020, 06:54 AM
Envoy pilots are challenged enough being the bottom of all regional feeding aa as per their schedules. They dont need more chalenges.

Varsity
02-06-2020, 06:58 AM
I am challenged by my embarrassingly small paycheck.

pitchattitude
02-06-2020, 08:24 AM
Iím challenged to look professional in a pair of parachute pants and a winged shirt. What did the people look like that these clothes were cut to fit?

Cujo665
02-06-2020, 09:12 AM
Nope, not me. I'm very surprised you didn't twist your post into a sales pitch for Omni. It seems that you have been lowered to only selling yard sale items now while I'm selling the brand new Tesla here.....


It doesn't need selling. Neither does Delta & United.... but you sure are on all the forums trying to sell the AA flow as rational for accepting very sub standard:
wages, work rules, working conditions and treatment by management....

They are still working under reserve rules from the old 16 year CBA. Six years after 117 came in, with no serious attempt to rewrite.... and why? Because the language is so swiss cheese, that management can do whatever they want, whenever they want. Even line holders are basically reserve and subject to reassignment now. Yeah, that's a great quality of life.... hence why they need guys like you trying to sell it for them non-stop. They paying you for it yet?

They could get so many more pilots just by a few simple no cost and low cost changes to how they treat people. Places like Republic do not even have Airport Standby Ready Reserve, meanwhile Envoy can't run without several Ready Reserves in each base. That one issue alone screams mismanagement and incompetence.

All of the problems at Envoy are directly attributable to those in the supervisory and upper management positions. They can oil the machine, but they don't know how it's built.

The pilots are there to work, build hours and experience and to move upward in their careers. There is no excuse for how this management group treats their pilots. It has gotten better, but only by being forced to, not through the wisdom of seeing what changes were needed in advance.

tommy2times
02-07-2020, 10:37 AM
It doesn't need selling. Neither does Delta & United.... but you sure are on all the forums trying to sell the AA flow as rational for accepting very sub standard:
wages, work rules, working conditions and treatment by management....

They are still working under reserve rules from the old 16 year CBA. Six years after 117 came in, with no serious attempt to rewrite.... and why? Because the language is so swiss cheese, that management can do whatever they want, whenever they want. Even line holders are basically reserve and subject to reassignment now. Yeah, that's a great quality of life.... hence why they need guys like you trying to sell it for them non-stop. They paying you for it yet?

They could get so many more pilots just by a few simple no cost and low cost changes to how they treat people. Places like Republic do not even have Airport Standby Ready Reserve, meanwhile Envoy can't run without several Ready Reserves in each base. That one issue alone screams mismanagement and incompetence.

All of the problems at Envoy are directly attributable to those in the supervisory and upper management positions. They can oil the machine, but they don't know how it's built.

The pilots are there to work, build hours and experience and to move upward in their careers. There is no excuse for how this management group treats their pilots. It has gotten better, but only by being forced to, not through the wisdom of seeing what changes were needed in advance.

Cujo665,

We need brave men like you in our Union! Semper Fi!

Cyio
02-07-2020, 12:53 PM
Cujo665,

We need brave men like you in our Union! Semper Fi!
He was in our union. Now with another company.

NoValueAviator
02-07-2020, 03:47 PM
Cujo665,

We need brave men like you in our Union! Semper Fi!

Accurate post, he was basically run out of the company by management for being too effective as a status rep/union volunteer.

MEGAFUPM
02-08-2020, 08:49 AM
Accurate post, he was basically run out of the company by management for being too effective as a status rep/union volunteer.

Wasn't there a little something about using sick time while on vacation?..

Cujo665
02-08-2020, 09:44 AM
Wasn't there a little something about using sick time while on vacation?..

No, there wasn't. There was a pattern of harassment of union officials by the company. There was taking a vacation and them not allowing a vacation slide, PO, PVD, PE or anything else to cover the few days that weren't covered by vacation time.

Rule #2 of the company says not to be away from work without providing notice. Notice was provided in person that I would not be there the days that were not covered. Therefore the rule was not violated. Rule #2 also says three or more missed assignments is grounds for termination. While the Chief Pilots office could not tell me what the punishment would be for a missed assignment, (not plural since he expected - as I did - that the block of days would be treated as one event) they were fully aware I wouldn't be there those days.

The company policy has steps of discipline. I was fully prepared for the appropriate discipline to keep my family commitment. Between work and the rush of union work, the bankruptcy and CBA negotiations that year, I missed almost every family event of the year. That vacation was also a family reunion. Missing it was not an option if staying married was important.

The company decided to record the single block of missed assignments as separate events each day, rather than as a single event for the block of days which is how they do sick time, missed blocks of 4 day trips and so on. In my case, they recorded them separately and used Rule #2 saying I had three or more consecutive MA's.
They then violated their progressive discipline policy again and said take a CDD or termination. With a family to feed on the meager Eagle wages, I took the CDD for one year. I'm sure being a commuter they expected me to have a MA within the year. Didn't happen.

I could list the many times they removed me from flying to "investigate" violations that they could have resolved with a phone call, or a stop by the CP office. Nope, they'd rather put the PW (paid withheld from service - in other words suspended from flight duty) on your record many times to help their fabricated cases later. They even left one in my file after I gave them documentation proving them wrong, including AA D2 records showing I arrived ready for duty well in advance of a report time.

Eagle/Envoy has fired 4 different union MEC members. One was fired 7 times. Two were fired two times (includes me) and one was fired once. During the heated contract negotiations of 2013-2015 there were two of the seven MEC members fired. Coincidentally these were the two MEC reps who most actively fought for the pilots and against company abuses.

It was still a good company. It still is today. The few executives and managers who take things personally are the biggest problem there. The coworkers were and are some of the best aviators and friends I have ever known. The camaraderie and friendships I made there have endured to this day. I still have many friends there, many in management (though they don't publicly admit it) and many who like myself have moved on to better jobs.

MEGAFUPM, I hope this answered your questions. If not feel free to PM me.

Chato
02-08-2020, 11:02 AM
They could get so many more pilots just by a few simple no cost and low cost changes to how they treat people. Places like Republic do not even have Airport Standby Ready Reserve, meanwhile Envoy can't run without several Ready Reserves in each base. That one issue alone screams mismanagement and incompetence.

All of the problems at Envoy are directly attributable to those in the supervisory and upper management positions. They can oil the machine, but they don't know how it's built.

The pilots are there to work, build hours and experience and to move upward in their careers. There is no excuse for how this management group treats their pilots. It has gotten better, but only by being forced to, not through the wisdom of seeing what changes were needed in advance.

Spoken


//

KCaviator
02-08-2020, 04:21 PM
Nothing gets Envoy panties wetter than the thought of taking CPís 175s.

Varsity
02-08-2020, 04:25 PM
Nothing gets Envoy panties wetter than the thought of taking CPís 175s.

They are Envoy's 175's. CPZ took them after Envoy voted no on a concessionary contract.

Cyio
02-08-2020, 04:28 PM
Nothing gets Envoy panties wetter than the thought of taking CPís 175s.
Hmmmm. It would seem you are confused. They have always been Eagle planes, Compass ended up with them because AA spanked us for not playing ball.

Chato
02-08-2020, 04:48 PM
Nothing gets Envoy panties wetter than the thought of taking CPís 175s.

Flamebait.

MqWhistleblower
02-09-2020, 03:11 AM
Nothing gets Envoy panties wetter than the thought of taking CPís 175s.

How Ďbout flow? I couldnít care less about the airplane. Fyi the 175 pay is the same(unless you are super senior)

KCaviator
02-09-2020, 06:45 AM
You guys are 🤡. They are NOT ďEnvoyísĒ planes. Get over yourselves. They are owned by AAG, and they can do whatever they want with them.

Cyio
02-09-2020, 06:48 AM
You guys are 🤡. They are NOT ďEnvoyísĒ planes. Get over yourselves. They are owned by AAG, and they can do whatever they want with them.
Dont act ignorant about the history. You know what we mean, those planes "were supposed to come to Envoy" and were only withheld from us because of a contract dispute. If you dont know the history, you shouldn't be chiming in.

KCaviator
02-09-2020, 06:50 AM
Dont act ignorant about the history. You know what we mean, those planes "were supposed to come to Envoy" and were only withheld from us because of a contract dispute. If you dont know the history, you shouldn't be chiming in.

Just like you ďwereĒ supposed to get all future 175 growth for AA too, right? Ha, howíd that turn out with the new SkyWest AA 175 flying?

buddies8
02-09-2020, 07:24 AM
Let's not forget the silent expansion by republic for american in Miami. Boston, LaGuardia, Newark, Charlotte and last dca. Yeap, all future growth will not beat w/o's.

pitchattitude
02-09-2020, 07:41 AM
Just like you ďwereĒ supposed to get all future 175 growth for AA too, right? Ha, howíd that turn out with the new SkyWest AA 175 flying?
SkyWest AA flying will not be in AAG owned planes. Ultimately you will probably see those planes more or less replace the Compass flying and the AAG owned planes Compass is flying will come to Envoy.

MD-11Loader
02-09-2020, 08:21 AM
Just like you ďwereĒ supposed to get all future 175 growth for AA too, right? Ha, howíd that turn out with the new SkyWest AA 175 flying?

The SkyWest order is not financed by AAG. All newly ordered 175ís by AAG are contractually required to come to MQ. But Iím glad that you think that you know our contract.

dera
02-09-2020, 08:36 AM
The SkyWest order is not financed by AAG. All newly ordered 175ís by AAG are contractually required to come to MQ. But Iím glad that you think that you know our contract.

Leave it to the Republic pilot to tell you how it all works :)

buddies8
02-09-2020, 10:04 AM
The SkyWest order is not financed by AAG. All newly ordered 175ís by AAG are contractually required to come to MQ. But Iím glad that you think that you know our contract.

oh really, then I guess SkyWest did not take a copy of the agreement with aa for these aircraft to the bank to get a better deal. never say never.

But seriously
02-09-2020, 10:20 AM
How Ďbout flow? I couldnít care less about the airplane. Fyi the 175 pay is the same(unless you are super senior)

Pay is based on seniority only. Same seniority gets paid the same regardless of airframe.

A few more 175ís WOULD, however, move the ratio a bit to allow a couple more CAís to get the higher rate.

But seriously
02-09-2020, 10:24 AM
Just like you ďwereĒ supposed to get all future 175 growth for AA too, right? Ha, howíd that turn out with the new SkyWest AA 175 flying?

Those two things are not at all the same. The 175ís were actually promised to EGL. It wasnít some rumor or general statement. That said, itís true that they all belong to AAG... but only because Tony screwed us and handed them away. The whole fleet used to belong to EGL.

Cujo665
02-09-2020, 12:19 PM
That said, it’s true that they all belong to AAG... but only because Tony screwed us and handed them away. The whole fleet used to belong to EGL.

You're going way way back there and a bunch may not even realize that all happened. Even the transfer rights. Look at your AC registrations.... under the original jobs protection pilots went with the planes. Pretty sure those registrations now say A.A. not Envoy.

buddies8
02-09-2020, 02:16 PM
You're going way way back there and a bunch may not even realize that all happened. Even the transfer rights. Look at your AC registrations.... under the original jobs protection pilots went with the planes. Pretty sure those registrations now say A.A. not Envoy.
yes tony, what a sleaze. Had direct transfer of all pilots to aa in one day with the aircraft but tony and alpa thought it better to get more flows spend more time at eagle/voy while aircraft were transferred immediately. What an alpa screw job to eagle pilots and the mec lied about everything.

Swakid8
02-10-2020, 05:01 AM
Nothing gets Envoy panties wetter than the thought of taking CPís 175s.

Oh please, miss us with that Republic is the best best thing slice bread madness. You are known for wishing the same in regards to republic operating E-175s for United vs ExpressJet.

captive apple
02-10-2020, 05:22 AM
oh really, then I guess SkyWest did not take a copy of the agreement with aa for these aircraft to the bank to get a better deal. never say never.

what are you saying?

NoValueAviator
02-10-2020, 05:49 AM
what are you saying?

my read on it was that he says skywest is the best

CaseTractor
02-10-2020, 01:37 PM
Wanted to share advice from a lesson learned.

Screenshot any email you received that could be remotely valuable in the future. They can be recalled, and any coordination promised; lost.

I get that emails can be recalled, but never saw it done in a questionable manner.

Watch your pay like a hawk, and the corrections to errors equally as much.

All from a friend of course!

havick206
02-10-2020, 05:37 PM
Wanted to share advice from a lesson learned.

Screenshot any email you received that could be remotely valuable in the future. They can be recalled, and any coordination promised; lost.

I get that emails can be recalled, but never saw it done in a questionable manner.

Watch your pay like a hawk, and the corrections to errors equally as much.

All from a friend of course!

Are you talking about HI6ís or regular AA emails?

If regular AA email you can set up a rule in outlook that automatically forwards everything to a personal email you set up purely to store everything as a backup.

CaseTractor
02-10-2020, 07:14 PM
Are you talking about HI6ís or regular AA emails?

If regular AA email you can set up a rule in outlook that automatically forwards everything to a personal email you set up purely to store everything as a backup.

AA Email. Yes forwarding to commercial email would be as good or better than screenshots.

dera
02-10-2020, 07:25 PM
AA Email. Yes forwarding to commercial email would be as good or better than screenshots.

Let me guess, something that happened 5 years ago?

CaseTractor
02-10-2020, 07:40 PM
Let me guess, something that happened 5 years ago?

lol, no, only a week, fortunately my memory is pretty accurate that recent of history! 5 weeks or years, not so much.

SoFloFlyer
02-10-2020, 09:13 PM
I am challenged by my embarrassingly small paycheck.
did you guys get a pay raise recently? Didnít that help any?

Bassman1985
02-11-2020, 05:12 AM
did you guys get a pay raise recently? Didnít that help any?

Oh yeah, now Iím only paid *slightly* less than a 190 FO of equivalent longevity at AA. Helps LOADS. Thereís no such thing as an overpaid regional pilot.

dera
02-11-2020, 08:21 PM
No, there wasn't. There was a pattern of harassment of union officials by the company. There was taking a vacation and them not allowing a vacation slide, PO, PVD, PE or anything else to cover the few days that weren't covered by vacation time.

Rule #2 of the company says not to be away from work without providing notice. Notice was provided in person that I would not be there the days that were not covered. Therefore the rule was not violated. Rule #2 also says three or more missed assignments is grounds for termination. While the Chief Pilots office could not tell me what the punishment would be for a missed assignment, (not plural since he expected - as I did - that the block of days would be treated as one event) they were fully aware I wouldn't be there those days.

The company policy has steps of discipline. I was fully prepared for the appropriate discipline to keep my family commitment. Between work and the rush of union work, the bankruptcy and CBA negotiations that year, I missed almost every family event of the year. That vacation was also a family reunion. Missing it was not an option if staying married was important.

The company decided to record the single block of missed assignments as separate events each day, rather than as a single event for the block of days which is how they do sick time, missed blocks of 4 day trips and so on. In my case, they recorded them separately and used Rule #2 saying I had three or more consecutive MA's.
They then violated their progressive discipline policy again and said take a CDD or termination. With a family to feed on the meager Eagle wages, I took the CDD for one year. I'm sure being a commuter they expected me to have a MA within the year. Didn't happen.

I could list the many times they removed me from flying to "investigate" violations that they could have resolved with a phone call, or a stop by the CP office. Nope, they'd rather put the PW (paid withheld from service - in other words suspended from flight duty) on your record many times to help their fabricated cases later. They even left one in my file after I gave them documentation proving them wrong, including AA D2 records showing I arrived ready for duty well in advance of a report time.

Eagle/Envoy has fired 4 different union MEC members. One was fired 7 times. Two were fired two times (includes me) and one was fired once. During the heated contract negotiations of 2013-2015 there were two of the seven MEC members fired. Coincidentally these were the two MEC reps who most actively fought for the pilots and against company abuses.

It was still a good company. It still is today. The few executives and managers who take things personally are the biggest problem there. The coworkers were and are some of the best aviators and friends I have ever known. The camaraderie and friendships I made there have endured to this day. I still have many friends there, many in management (though they don't publicly admit it) and many who like myself have moved on to better jobs.

MEGAFUPM, I hope this answered your questions. If not feel free to PM me.

This isn't entirely accurate, is it?
There has never been a policy when a block of MA's are considered a single event. Especially when they are just before your scheduled vacation block. And even more so after posting pictures from Disney during those missed days.

And you're also skipping the last part of the story.

NoValueAviator
02-12-2020, 05:58 AM
To me it's pretty clear that you shouldn't just accept missed assignments and it's also pretty clear that RI got targetted by management for being an obstacle to them through his union activities.

Unfortunately because of the way arbitration works, it is easy and relatively risk free in theory for an ENY manager to target or direct the targetting of a particular pilot and it will never come up in discovery, which is informal at best when it does happen. I've seen this myself with how the company responded to another pilot who likes to complain excessively (imo) about hotels.

Cujo665
02-12-2020, 06:01 AM
This isn't entirely accurate, is it?
There has never been a policy when a block of MA's are considered a single event. Especially when they are just before your scheduled vacation block. And even more so after posting pictures from Disney during those missed days.

And you're also skipping the last part of the story.

yes, itís accurate.

I have copies of the reports submitted by the CP office (which the company withheld and I got after the arbitration) They referred to the missed assignment, not missed assignments. We expected it to be treated the same as a block of sick days. One event for several days. Same as when you miss on a 4 day trip, recorded as one event of multiple days. When you tell the company put me out sick the next 3 days, itís one event. When we had snow or WX events they didnít record MAís every day, they recorded 1 MA for the block of days. Then later the CP would convert them to commuter policy.
The rule on MA is intended that if you had 4 trips in a month, if you MAíd three consecutive youíd have been out over three weeks. It was never meant for three consecutive days.

The purpose (family reunion) was never in dispute, they were told exactly what the time was for at the same time they were told the block of days I couldnít be there.

Never tried to hide I was at a family reunion at Disney, told them that at the same time I told them I wouldnít be there. That was never contested at all.
Read rule #2. It does not say not to be away without permission. It says not to be away without notice; notice had been given. Their words were thatís just a technicality.

like I said, was totally prepared for a step letter, double secret probation, make-up work... some type of punishment. Nobody expected them to record each day individually and attempt to discharge. That was a first as far as ALPA could find.

what was the last part you say Iím skipping? They did a CDD, I signed it. Or that they fired me twice more over the next year and a half in between lots of attempts to make life miserable. Should have fought the CDD. Worst legal advice ever. Picketing them publicly at LGA probably didnít help, but it what my pilots wanted to do.




In any event itís water under the bridge and I landed in a much better place. So it actually worked out. Envoy is still a good job, but the flow is losing value daily. They need to fix the work rules and the pay.

Cujo665
02-12-2020, 06:27 AM
To me it's pretty clear that you shouldn't just accept missed assignments and it's also pretty clear that RI got targetted by management for being an obstacle to them through his union activities.

Unfortunately because of the way arbitration works, it is easy and relatively risk free in theory for an ENY manager to target or direct the targetting of a particular pilot and it will never come up in discovery, which is informal at best when it does happen. I've seen this myself with how the company responded to another pilot who likes to complain excessively (imo) about hotels.

true

stuff like awards and company recognition were removed from my personnel file. I have copies and a letter from the CP who issued the awards and recognitions that he had placed them into the P-file. Yet they vanished by arbitration time when they claimed I was a bad employee.
We asked for all documentation related to the incident. They withheld the CP reports. I only got them after both CPís left Envoy and emailed me the reports they filed.

Cujo665
02-12-2020, 07:00 AM
This isn't entirely accurate, is it?
There has never been a policy when a block of MA's are considered a single event.......

Actually there has. The company in 2014 was busting pilots balls and when guys couldnít get to work the company gave them a MA for their trip. Guys took the 4 day vacation. When staffing was low, The company started to threaten to record each day individually to get them to come in on day two. The company actually did it a few times. Recorded 4 separate MAís from a 4 day trip. Eventually through the grievance process they were converted back to a single MA.
Nobody was fired, even though it was more than 3 consecutive MA, nobody given CDDís or anything more than the corresponding level of punishment based on the company discipline manual.
Well, until me....

oldrebel
02-12-2020, 07:09 AM
Whatís a CDD

Cyio
02-12-2020, 07:40 AM
To me it's pretty clear that you shouldn't just accept missed assignments and it's also pretty clear that RI got targetted by management for being an obstacle to them through his union activities.

Unfortunately because of the way arbitration works, it is easy and relatively risk free in theory for an ENY manager to target or direct the targetting of a particular pilot and it will never come up in discovery, which is informal at best when it does happen. I've seen this myself with how the company responded to another pilot who likes to complain excessively (imo) about hotels.
Agreed but be aware that arbitration favors the company due to the RLA. The companies knows this and uses it to their advantage.

Another reason to fight for increased flow. The sooner you are out the sooner you are away from predatory practices.

NoValueAviator
02-12-2020, 07:42 AM
Whatís a CDD

continuous duty overnight

Cujo665
02-12-2020, 07:58 AM
Whatís a CDD

career decision day

choice 1 - fired
choice 2 - sign, agreeing to be fired if you break any rules while the letter is in effect, 1 year is standard.

in their discipline manual it comes after C&C, step 1, step 2.... none of which I had.

Im sure they figured with NY closing and me commuting that theyíd get me on another MA. Never happened.

pitchattitude
02-12-2020, 08:16 AM
continuous duty overnight
That would be a CDO and contextually doesnít fit the conversation either.

Cujo665
02-12-2020, 08:18 AM
Youíre dealing with an unethical management team. A few are genuinely good guys.

The staffing problems would vanish if they just treated their employees better. Theyíre positioned to be the lead regional in the industry. Instead they harass, vilify and abuse their staff.

aviation is a small world and word gets out. Everybody knows Envoy has a toxic relationship with its pilots compared to other carriers.

Fix the reserve rules, fix the order of assignments, stop making lineholders reserve with endless reassignment. For Gods sake learn to schedule and get rid of airport ready reserve. Pay a minimum value for a day away from family. Lost weekends and 12 hour four day trips are just outright wrong and abusive. If they absolutely must have it, make it pay a good premium.

Stop abusing people just just because you can.
#StopAbuse


the flip side is that the average line guy probably has zero idea of the really stupid stuff pilots do and get in trouble for. I was amazed at some of the stuff I defended guys for. The sad part is, I never lost one... except my own......

NoValueAviator
02-12-2020, 10:55 AM
That would be a CDO and contextually doesn’t fit the conversation either.

i'll get must wear corrective lenses added to my medical i guess


The staffing problems would vanish if they just treated their employees better. They’re positioned to be the lead regional in the industry. Instead they harass, vilify and abuse their staff.

񹙋񹙋񹙋​
Amen dude. Can't believe the atmosphere of disrespect. I don't know if my experience is representative, but 99.9% of guys I've encountered on the line genuinely want to complete the mission and do what we can for the passengers & the operation. Meanwhile management poops on us and looks to erode what little the market has forced them to give.

pitchattitude
02-12-2020, 11:10 AM
Amen dude. Can't believe the atmosphere of disrespect. I don't know if my experience is representative, but 99.9% of guys I've encountered on the line genuinely want to complete the mission and do what we can for the passengers & the operation. Meanwhile management poops on us and looks to erode what little the market has forced them to give.
But just ask THCoolAid, Envoy has an unlimited supply of never before employed in the real world and HIGHLY qualified cadets lined up to fly the 175 for peanuts, well, now popcorn, and a falsehood of a 5.5-6 year flow.

dera
02-12-2020, 12:25 PM
yes, itís accurate.
what was the last part you say Iím skipping? They did a CDD, I signed it. Or that they fired me twice more over the next year and a half in between lots of attempts to make life miserable. Should have fought the CDD. Worst legal advice ever. Picketing them publicly at LGA probably didnít help, but it what my pilots wanted to do.
.

You missed the part why you were terminated. It wasn't the MA. But if that's all you want to say, we can leave it at that.

rld1k
02-12-2020, 02:17 PM
You missed the part why you were terminated. It wasn't the MA. But if that's all you want to say, we can leave it at that.

You're in the union and calling out a guy who was targeted by management for being an effective union rep. Your priorities seem out of whack

MqWhistleblower
02-12-2020, 02:20 PM
Youíre dealing with an unethical management team. A few are genuinely good guys.

The staffing problems would vanish if they just treated their employees better. Theyíre positioned to be the lead regional in the industry. Instead they harass, vilify and abuse their staff.

aviation is a small world and word gets out. Everybody knows Envoy has a toxic relationship with its pilots compared to other carriers.

Fix the reserve rules, fix the order of assignments, stop making lineholders reserve with endless reassignment. For Gods sake learn to schedule and get rid of airport ready reserve. Pay a minimum value for a day away from family. Lost weekends and 12 hour four day trips are just outright wrong and abusive. If they absolutely must have it, make it pay a good premium.

Stop abusing people just just because you can.
#StopAbuse


the flip side is that the average line guy probably has zero idea of the really stupid stuff pilots do and get in trouble for. I was amazed at some of the stuff I defended guys for. The sad part is, I never lost one... except my own......

Agreed! Management is extremely hostile

dera
02-12-2020, 02:33 PM
You're in the union and calling out a guy who was targeted by management for being an effective union rep. Your priorities seem out of whack

I'm not calling him out, I just said he missed out the important part from his post. And we're leaving it at that if he doesn't want to disclose the rest. This was all 3-5 years ago anyway, so it's not important any more.

havick206
02-12-2020, 02:38 PM
I'm not calling him out, I just said he missed out the important part from his post. And we're leaving it at that if he doesn't want to disclose the rest. This was all 3-5 years ago anyway, so it's not important any more.

Gotta agree with Dera on this. Yes he was targeted, not that I agree with that. But he wasnít as clean as he makes himself out to be either.

In my experience having done contract compliance, it never ends well when someone is constantly trying to sharpshoot with the contract, eventually youíre going to run out of accuracy.

Paid2fly
02-12-2020, 05:34 PM
You're in the union and calling out a guy who was targeted by management for being an effective union rep. Your priorities seem out of whack



Way out of whack!

Cujo665
02-12-2020, 07:28 PM
You missed the part why you were terminated. It wasn't the MA. But if that's all you want to say, we can leave it at that.

probably because I was not terminated for the MA vacation mess. The whole story takes about 300 typed pages.

They expected me to have a commuting MA during the CDD period. Never happened. Then before the CDD expired they did terminate for four cases of alleged sick time abuse 11 months after the CDD. I arrived with medical records, they said they donít need to see the medical records, youíre fired. I was back 1.5 months later. Administrative law judge said it was the most egregious termination heíd seen in 22 years. 1 was an ear infection. One was bronchitis. Another was pneumonia. The fourth one I didnít go see the doctor. They refused to even look at the medical records. How effed up is that?

6 months after that one they discharged again over a miscommunication. Tried to clarify and their response was we arenít here for an explanation, we are here to discharge you. It was a typo of the effective date of a resignation from union position. They said I lied. They also said I lied about involvement in Charlie Bucket. At the very most it was a miscommunication, but they wouldnít listen.
Never trust your job to an arbiter. Never stick your neck out at Envoy to fight for other pilots. You will get targeted, harassed and repeatedly fired.

That is the the extremely short version cut down to just the basics.

not sure what youíve been told, but Iíd be happy to let you read the paperwork. Decide for yourself.

EVERY employer that interviewed me and took the time and read the paperwork offered me the job I was there for. Every single one.

Cujo665
02-12-2020, 07:44 PM
I'm not calling him out, I just said he missed out the important part from his post. And we're leaving it at that if he doesn't want to disclose the rest. This was all 3-5 years ago anyway, so it's not important any more.

I didnít miss anything. I responded to somebody who asked about the vacation

not important? Youíre working with a management team with a well established track record of targeting and harassing union officials who donít let them steam roll the pilots.
They fired one Rep 7 times
they fired another twice
they fired me twice
they fired a fourth once

The message is clear.

dera
02-12-2020, 08:58 PM
probably because I was not terminated for the MA vacation mess. The whole story takes about 300 typed pages.

They expected me to have a commuting MA during the CDD period. Never happened. Then before the CDD expired they did terminate for four cases of alleged sick time abuse 11 months after the CDD. I arrived with medical records, they said they donít need to see the medical records, youíre fired. I was back 1.5 months later. Administrative law judge said it was the most egregious termination heíd seen in 22 years. 1 was an ear infection. One was bronchitis. Another was pneumonia. The fourth one I didnít go see the doctor. They refused to even look at the medical records. How effed up is that?

6 months after that one they discharged again over a miscommunication. Tried to clarify and their response was we arenít here for an explanation, we are here to discharge you. It was a typo of the effective date of a resignation from union position. They said I lied. They also said I lied about involvement in Charlie Bucket. At the very most it was a miscommunication, but they wouldnít listen.
Never trust your job to an arbiter. Never stick your neck out at Envoy to fight for other pilots. You will get targeted, harassed and repeatedly fired.

That is the the extremely short version cut down to just the basics.

not sure what youíve been told, but Iíd be happy to let you read the paperwork. Decide for yourself.

EVERY employer that interviewed me and took the time and read the paperwork offered me the job I was there for. Every single one.

Like I said, lots more to the story than what you were originally saying.

Let's just leave it at that, no point to wash old dirty laundry in public.
Things were very different back then.

boxthrower
02-12-2020, 10:36 PM
Like I said, lots more to the story than what you were originally saying.

Let's just leave it at that, no point to wash old dirty laundry in public.
Things were very different back then.


And you think theyíre different now at any of the WO? All 3 are crap holes. PSAís dirty laundry just isnít on APC.

Cyio
02-13-2020, 03:30 AM
Like I said, lots more to the story than what you were originally saying.

Let's just leave it at that, no point to wash old dirty laundry in public.
Things were very different back then.
Dera I have come to appreciate you on these forums, a far cry from the days of old, however I have to say I am on Cujo's side with this one. Even though there may be more to the story, this guy fought and fought hard for his fellow pilots. If there were some deliberate jabs at the contract/company while in this position, well they deserved it.

What management got away with, or rather tried to get away with back than was nothing short of horrible. If I have to take a side in this fight, it will be with the guy who had a proven track record of helping pilots out and fighting for them. I hope you do the same in your new role.

tommy2times
02-13-2020, 06:01 AM
Like I said before, we need real men in our Union, not boys that live in their parents basement/garage, that are battling acne.

MqWhistleblower
02-13-2020, 06:09 AM
Like I said before, we need real men in our Union, not boys that live in their parents basement/garage, that are battling acne.

Is Karim still an union rep? Asking for a friend

dera
02-13-2020, 06:15 AM
Is Karim still an union rep? Asking for a friend

No.

Fillerfiller.

AV8R72
02-13-2020, 07:25 AM
No.

Fillerfiller.

oh , Karim...the guy whose birthday just so happened to fall on the day the last vacancy closed....funny how that works

dera
02-13-2020, 08:10 AM
oh , Karim...the guy whose birthday just so happened to fall on the day the last vacancy closed....funny how that works

That was just a coincidence. Really.

uavking
02-13-2020, 08:18 AM
For all those down on the future of AAG, take some time to take a look at the announcements made today re new international flying from Seattle and Alaska joining Oneworld. It sounds like Vasu is willing to make some unexpected moves and go toe to toe with the competition. (The latest episode of the "Tell Me Why" podcast is a good interview with Vasu about these moves; available in Apple Podcasts, etc.)

If y'all still feel compelled to jump ship for the yellow bus or animal tails, go ahead, I guess.

Cyio
02-13-2020, 08:35 AM
That was just a coincidence. Really.
That is one hell of a coincidence.

Cyio
02-13-2020, 08:38 AM
For all those down on the future of AAG, take some time to take a look at the announcements made today re new international flying from Seattle and Alaska joining Oneworld. It sounds like Vasu is willing to make some unexpected moves and go toe to toe with the competition. (The latest episode of the "Tell Me Why" podcast is a good interview with Vasu about these moves; available in Apple Podcasts, etc.)

If y'all still feel compelled to jump ship for the yellow bus or animal tails, go ahead, I guess.
When you say "latest" what are you actually referring too? When I looked it up the most recent was in December of 2019 and had the "Points Guy" as the main feature. I am new to podcasts in general though so I fully admit I may be missing something.

But seriously
02-13-2020, 08:45 AM
For all those down on the future of AAG, take some time to take a look at the announcements made today re new international flying from Seattle and Alaska joining Oneworld. It sounds like Vasu is willing to make some unexpected moves and go toe to toe with the competition. (The latest episode of the "Tell Me Why" podcast is a good interview with Vasu about these moves; available in Apple Podcasts, etc.)

If y'all still feel compelled to jump ship for the yellow bus or animal tails, go ahead, I guess.


MF! Now we are never getting Alaska out of the G terminal in ORD :(

But seriously
02-13-2020, 08:49 AM
When you say "latest" what are you actually referring too? When I looked it up the most recent was in December of 2019 and had the "Points Guy" as the main feature. I am new to podcasts in general though so I fully admit I may be missing something.

The pod just dropped today. If you hit the subscribe button it will show up for you.

SparrowBird
02-13-2020, 08:51 AM
https://i.imgflip.com/3o4tkd.jpg
Who wears David Clark's at an airline?

Cujo665
02-13-2020, 09:22 AM
Like I said, lots more to the story than what you were originally saying.

Let's just leave it at that, no point to wash old dirty laundry in public.
Things were very different back then.

I wasnít asked the whole story, I was asked about the vacation. I answered that. It was you that brought the rest up.

I donít mind. They canít hurt me or my family anymore. It only exposes how totally unethical this management team is.
Pilots should know who theyíre working for.

if telling the story and history helps guys not get screwed by these managers, then thatís a good thing.

martyByrde
02-13-2020, 10:10 AM
oh , Karim...the guy whose birthday just so happened to fall on the day the last vacancy closed....funny how that works
And as expected, bid 175 DFW

Cujo665
02-13-2020, 10:19 AM
And as expected, bid 175 DFW

the meeting minutes should be out soon too if they already aren’t. It’s interesting after agenda item 25. Watered down some, but clearly there. Has some more growing up to do.

He’s young. He has a good heart though. Give him a little time and guidance and he will eventually make a good union volunteer. it takes a lot to put yourself potentially in managements cross hairs. He was willing to do that, most aren’t.
credit where credit is due.

CLE to IAH
02-13-2020, 10:19 AM
continuous duty overnight
username checks out :-)

MqWhistleblower
02-13-2020, 12:52 PM
On a more personal note Karim is the proper definition of scab. That kid fits right at PSA

rld1k
02-13-2020, 01:02 PM
the meeting minutes should be out soon too if they already arenít. Itís interesting after agenda item 25. Watered down some, but clearly there. Has some more growing up to do.

Heís young. He has a good heart though. Give him a little time and guidance and he will eventually make a good union volunteer. it takes a lot to put yourself potentially in managements cross hairs. He was willing to do that, most arenít.
credit where credit is due.

Nah, we can find union volunteers that aren't totally self serving

uavking
02-13-2020, 03:48 PM
On a more personal note Karim is the proper definition of scab. That kid fits right at PSA

The kid sounds like a real winner, but let us not cheapen the term. It has a very specific meaning in labor, and particularly in this industry. Did he cross a picket line or fly struck work? Then he is not a scab.

MqWhistleblower
02-13-2020, 04:27 PM
The kid sounds like a real winner, but let us not cheapen the term. It has a very specific meaning in labor, and particularly in this industry. Did he cross a picket line or fly struck work? Then he is not a scab.

Granted! My understanding is that he was trying to lobby his upgrade with the company. Pretty damn close to being a scab.

MEGAFUPM
02-13-2020, 04:47 PM
Granted! My understanding is that he was trying to lobby his upgrade with the company. Pretty damn close to being a scab.

Actually not close at all. He was trying to further his own career, can't fault him for that, everyone should try to get out of here as fast as they can. The way he did it however was not smart and shouldn't be back in a union position anytime soon. But definitely nowhere near a scab.

dera
02-13-2020, 05:00 PM
Actually not close at all. He was trying to further his own career, can't fault him for that, everyone should try to get out of here as fast as they can. The way he did it however was not smart and shouldn't be back in a union position anytime soon. But definitely nowhere near a scab.

"Not smart"?
Understatement of the year right there.
Not a scab. But he likely would be given the opportunity. To "further his own career".

dera
02-13-2020, 05:05 PM
That is one hell of a coincidence.

My sources tell me it really was that. No need to see conspiracies where none really exist.

dvtpilot
02-13-2020, 05:06 PM
Not a scab. But nowhere near trustworthy, thatís for sure.

Also, didnít know Dera was a union guy. Youíve moved up quick in your time here! At least you take the time to do the work and get educated, as far as I can tell.

havick206
02-13-2020, 05:35 PM
My sources tell me it really was that. No need to see conspiracies where none really exist.

Agree, the company isnít that smart.

Tyrion
02-14-2020, 07:21 AM
This isn't entirely accurate, is it?
There has never been a policy when a block of MA's are considered a single event. Especially when they are just before your scheduled vacation block. And even more so after posting pictures from Disney during those missed days.

And you're also skipping the last part of the story.

You sure have a lot to say about this for a FO barely off probation...

Gooch
02-14-2020, 09:28 AM
^Captain Co-Pilots know bro...or management🤔 #imapilot

ninerdriver
02-14-2020, 11:54 AM
Who wears David Clark's at an airline?
Ask this guy:
https://www.envoyair.com/2016/09/14/now-offering-industry-leading-pay-to-new-pilots/

buddies8
02-14-2020, 01:22 PM
Maybe envoy should include headsets with the luggage they give new cadets .

NoValueAviator
02-14-2020, 06:02 PM
If management found a way to help out KS it wouldn't be the first time.

Lots of people wear DCs here. They don't pay us enough to afford Bose and those of us on the jungle jet need something with a good NRR to deal with the constant whooshing sound. Sometimes I like to close my eyes and pretend I'm on a 757-200 going .86.

dera
02-14-2020, 06:05 PM
If management found a way to help out KS it wouldn't be the first time.



I'm sure it wouldn't, but it was not the case. No point to spin that, it's just not true.

ninerdriver
02-14-2020, 06:07 PM
Sometimes I like to close my eyes and pretend I'm on a 757-200 going .86.

https://i.imgflip.com/3p9wdy.jpg

NoValueAviator
02-14-2020, 06:09 PM
WHOOSH
das it mane

although judging by them epps that guy is already flying something quieter

FAIPMAFIA
02-14-2020, 06:52 PM
No, there wasn't. There was a pattern of harassment of union officials by the company. There was taking a vacation and them not allowing a vacation slide, PO, PVD, PE or anything else to cover the few days that weren't covered by vacation time.

Rule #2 of the company says not to be away from work without providing notice. Notice was provided in person that I would not be there the days that were not covered. Therefore the rule was not violated. Rule #2 also says three or more missed assignments is grounds for termination. While the Chief Pilots office could not tell me what the punishment would be for a missed assignment, (not plural since he expected - as I did - that the block of days would be treated as one event) they were fully aware I wouldn't be there those days.

The company policy has steps of discipline. I was fully prepared for the appropriate discipline to keep my family commitment. Between work and the rush of union work, the bankruptcy and CBA negotiations that year, I missed almost every family event of the year. That vacation was also a family reunion. Missing it was not an option if staying married was important.

The company decided to record the single block of missed assignments as separate events each day, rather than as a single event for the block of days which is how they do sick time, missed blocks of 4 day trips and so on. In my case, they recorded them separately and used Rule #2 saying I had three or more consecutive MA's.
They then violated their progressive discipline policy again and said take a CDD or termination. With a family to feed on the meager Eagle wages, I took the CDD for one year. I'm sure being a commuter they expected me to have a MA within the year. Didn't happen.

I could list the many times they removed me from flying to "investigate" violations that they could have resolved with a phone call, or a stop by the CP office. Nope, they'd rather put the PW (paid withheld from service - in other words suspended from flight duty) on your record many times to help their fabricated cases later. They even left one in my file after I gave them documentation proving them wrong, including AA D2 records showing I arrived ready for duty well in advance of a report time.

Eagle/Envoy has fired 4 different union MEC members. One was fired 7 times. Two were fired two times (includes me) and one was fired once. During the heated contract negotiations of 2013-2015 there were two of the seven MEC members fired. Coincidentally these were the two MEC reps who most actively fought for the pilots and against company abuses.

It was still a good company. It still is today. The few executives and managers who take things personally are the biggest problem there. The coworkers were and are some of the best aviators and friends I have ever known. The camaraderie and friendships I made there have endured to this day. I still have many friends there, many in management (though they don't publicly admit it) and many who like myself have moved on to better jobs.

MEGAFUPM, I hope this answered your questions. If not feel free to PM me.

by any chance was Chris Warren involves with this?

Cyio
02-15-2020, 04:52 AM
by any chance was Chris Warren involves with this?
I think this was before CW, but I wouldn't put it past him. He kind of made up the rules as he went along.

goldenbear1
02-15-2020, 06:26 AM
Hate to be that guy but does anyone know where to find the verification code to list for a jumpseat?

black cat
02-15-2020, 07:38 AM
I think this was before CW, but I wouldn't put it past him. He kind of made up the rules as he went along.

Whoever this CW cat is must've been quite a character. He's on APA's radar for not getting voted in.

Cyio
02-15-2020, 08:14 AM
Whoever this CW cat is must've been quite a character. He's on APA's radar for not getting voted in.
He was the ORD CP and yes, he was about as anti pilot as they come. He would at times go out of his way to wreck people and often played favorites. I hope he never makes it to the CPO at AA.

shinydiscoballs
02-15-2020, 08:25 AM
He was the ORD CP and yes, he was about as anti pilot as they come. He would at times go out of his way to wreck people and often played favorites. I hope he never makes it to the CPO at AA.

CW was a great chief pilot and a leader. Sometimes in today's society and or an organization you need leadership like that (create fear) to maintain direction and stability or else chaos.

Cyio
02-15-2020, 08:33 AM
CW was a great chief pilot and a leader. Sometimes in today's society and or an organization you need leadership like that (create fear) to maintain direction and stability or else chaos.
He wasn't a chief pilot nor a leader. You can look at the former DFW CPO and now their new CPO as examples of chief pilots and leaders.

CW got pleasure out of causing fear and anxiety amongst the pilot group.

pitchattitude
02-15-2020, 08:55 AM
CW was a great chief pilot and a leader. Sometimes in today's society and or an organization you need leadership like that (create fear) to maintain direction and stability or else chaos.
Yeah, sure. In the same way that Dictators are great leaders.

martyByrde
02-15-2020, 09:50 AM
CW was a great chief pilot and a leader. Sometimes in today's society and or an organization you need leadership like that (create fear) to maintain direction and stability or else chaos.
CW, is that you???

dera
02-15-2020, 09:52 AM
CW was a great chief pilot and a leader. Sometimes in today's society and or an organization you need leadership like that (create fear) to maintain direction and stability or else chaos.

He was 5 foot nothing of human trash.

MqWhistleblower
02-15-2020, 10:23 AM
CW was a great chief pilot and a leader. Sometimes in today's society and or an organization you need leadership like that (create fear) to maintain direction and stability or else chaos.

hey Chris. Howís mainline treating you?

slantgolf
02-15-2020, 04:52 PM
CW was a great chief pilot and a leader. Sometimes in today's society and or an organization you need leadership like that (create fear) to maintain direction and stability or else chaos.


yeah? like that tie when he made a huge issue of captain add fuel? such that some people were afraid to take extra fuel? all of the captains landing with 1200lbs those following weeks probably loved him.

FAIPMAFIA
02-15-2020, 05:34 PM
CW was a great chief pilot and a leader. Sometimes in today's society and or an organization you need leadership like that (create fear) to maintain direction and stability or else chaos.

For ******** sake hell no! Donít you ever used leadership and fear in the same paragraph. True leadership is humble and servant. Also CW was not well liked at Envoy for multiple reasons. Asked your union reps.

HobGoblin
02-15-2020, 06:19 PM
yeah? like that tie when he made a huge issue of captain add fuel? such that some people were afraid to take extra fuel? all of the captains landing with 1200lbs those following weeks probably loved him.

CW didnít do that? Wasnít it the CRJ fleet guy, who got subsequently got returned to the line for that?

FAIPMAFIA
02-15-2020, 06:32 PM
CW didnít do that? Wasnít it the CRJ fleet guy, who got subsequently got returned to the line for that?


Iím pretty sure it was CM who did that and not CW.

NoValueAviator
02-15-2020, 07:27 PM
Hate to be that guy but does anyone know where to find the verification code to list for a jumpseat?

ask someone from the JS committee

dera
02-16-2020, 12:19 AM
yeah? like that tie when he made a huge issue of captain add fuel? such that some people were afraid to take extra fuel? all of the captains landing with 1200lbs those following weeks probably loved him.

That wasn't CW.
CW called captains asking why they deiced when others didn't. And then gave them C&C because of "unnecessary" deicing.
Micromanaging crap like that.

MqWhistleblower
02-16-2020, 12:45 AM
Iím pretty sure it was CM who did that and not CW.

Thatís correct. CM is a good guy but not the sharpest tool in the shed.

FAIPMAFIA
02-16-2020, 04:22 AM
Thatís correct. CM is a good guy but not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Well he was a marine so...... Lol

tommy2times
02-16-2020, 05:39 AM
Well he was a marine so...... Lol

Easy now Air Force puke.

FAIPMAFIA
02-16-2020, 06:36 AM
Easy now Air Force puke.

Haha!! Excuse me I have to see what room service has delivered me. You enjoy your vegetarian MRE.

Cujo665
02-16-2020, 08:56 AM
Hate to be that guy but does anyone know where to find the verification code to list for a jumpseat?

download the ALPA app for iPhone/droid. Itís there among many useful things.

LT Shiney Sides
02-18-2020, 08:20 AM
How soon can the family travel benefits be used after starting class?

speedbrakearmed
02-18-2020, 09:36 AM
How soon can the family travel benefits be used after starting class?
Pretty sure it's immediate, may take a day or two for your information to be added to the system but the only restriction I believe you have is that you cannot do ZED fares for like the first 6 months. But anything operated under AAG you and your family should be able to go on immediately.

slantgolf
02-18-2020, 05:50 PM
CW didnít do that? Wasnít it the CRJ fleet guy, who got subsequently got returned to the line for that?

my bad, wrong guy, sorry

Varsity
02-21-2020, 08:28 AM
DFW tools kicking all non-dfw envoy pilots out of the facebook group.

:rolleyes:

CLE to IAH
02-21-2020, 11:49 AM
DFW tools kicking all non-dfw envoy pilots out of the facebook group.

:rolleyes:
I kicked myself out.

MEGAFUPM
02-21-2020, 11:49 AM
DFW tools kicking all non-dfw envoy pilots out of the facebook group.

:rolleyes:

Same with the New York page not letting non New York pilots on. Not really sure why. There's a lot of good information on all the pages that's not always cross posted. Seems really dumb to do.

HalyardJammer
02-21-2020, 11:56 AM
Same with the New York page not letting non New York pilots on. Not really sure why. There's a lot of good information on all the pages that's not always cross posted. Seems really dumb to do.
Such as lost items.

dera
02-21-2020, 05:56 PM
DFW tools kicking all non-dfw envoy pilots out of the facebook group.

:rolleyes:

Ahem. It started from the ORD page.

ParkingatMIA
02-21-2020, 08:54 PM
Ahem. It started from the ORD page.

makes sense, those ORD pilots are a strange bunch

MEGAFUPM
02-22-2020, 01:09 PM
makes sense, those ORD pilots are a strange bunch

Yeah voting to let the pilot group have a say in 10-30% pay raises and a flow increase is pretty strange indeed.

Cujo665
02-23-2020, 03:49 PM
Same with the New York page not letting non New York pilots on. Not really sure why. There's a lot of good information on all the pages that's not always cross posted. Seems really dumb to do.

keeping in ďin baseĒ allows the reps to get a sense of the body of their pilots without calling each one individually on the phone like I did.

It originally was called EGL ALPA LEC121 Pilots, but national had hissy fits... so they all morphed into just the base. NY Eagle Pilots is what stuck. At the time we had 535 pilots in base and over 3/4 were on our page.

Cujo665
02-23-2020, 03:54 PM
Yeah voting to let the pilot group have a say in 10-30% pay raises and a flow increase is pretty strange indeed.

you need a rep with balls to submit a change to the by-laws to require pilot votes be much more clearly defined... and other reps that wonít be swayed by the lawyers. The ALPA lawyers are great at telling pilots, see... it says right here any significant change to wages or working conditions requires a pilot vote.... then at MEC meetings telling the reps that they (the MEC) get to define ďsignificant.Ē

it allows the MEC chairman the ability to make quick grabs when the company puts something on the table that if a vote were required could result in the company changing their mind before itís done...
kinda like the last AIP the company yanked back.

Good points and bad points. Mostly bad in my opinion from years of observation. Teamsters requires pilot votes on ALL changes to the CBA, not just wages and work rules. An MOU/LOA is only for clarifying existing ratified language, not making changes. Itís a better way in my opinion.

Dman2141
02-28-2020, 05:01 PM
Is psa looking at a dfw base? Saw some psa people looking around at crew rooms.

But seriously
02-28-2020, 11:33 PM
Is psa looking at a dfw base? Saw some psa people looking around at crew rooms.

Theyíll probably agree to a pay cut in exchange for stealing our crew .room (http://i.viglink.com/?key=481c1e0bb7406ee862f1f8858ec6342e&insertId=271092bbd1c266f9&type=L&exp=-1%3Ana%3A0&libId=k77ckrts0100a0tt000MApytvgs3o&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fnew reply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26p%3D2986207&v=1&iid=271092bbd1c266f9&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.booking.com%2F&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fenv oy-airlines%2F126470-envoy-2020-a-22.html&title=Reply%20to%20Topic%20-%20Airline%20Pilot%20Central%20Forums&txt=%3Cspan%3Eroom%3C%2Fspan%3E)

pitchattitude
02-29-2020, 05:11 AM
Is psa looking at a dfw base? Saw some psa people looking around at crew rooms.
All the ďPSA having a DFW crew baseĒ seem to be coming from you. Itís probably going to happen when all the WOs get integrated to the mainline seniority list. In the meantime you will have to accept that you can see DFW on some occasional through flying.

shinydiscoballs
02-29-2020, 05:58 AM
All the ďPSA having a DFW crew baseĒ seem to be coming from you. Itís probably going to happen when all the WOs get integrated to the mainline seniority list. In the meantime you will have to accept that you can see DFW on some occasional through flying.

Yes one list and 2nd year FO pay for all WO captains with 16% direct contributions coming your way soon.

MqWhistleblower
02-29-2020, 10:09 AM
Theyíll probably agree to a pay cut in exchange for stealing our crew .room (http://i.viglink.com/?key=481c1e0bb7406ee862f1f8858ec6342e&insertId=271092bbd1c266f9&type=L&exp=-1%3Ana%3A0&libId=k77ckrts0100a0tt000MApytvgs3o&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fnew reply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26p%3D2986207&v=1&iid=271092bbd1c266f9&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.booking.com%2F&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fenv oy-airlines%2F126470-envoy-2020-a-22.html&title=Reply%20to%20Topic%20-%20Airline%20Pilot%20Central%20Forums&txt=%3Cspan%3Eroom%3C%2Fspan%3E)

I wouldnít be surprised...

Slow2Final
02-29-2020, 05:11 PM
Yes one list and 2nd year FO pay for all WO captains with 16% direct contributions coming your way soon.

Any day now 😂

Cyio
03-01-2020, 04:50 AM
Any day now 😂
Donít hold your breath. In addition, you wouldnít like the terms a deal like that came with.

Slow2Final
03-01-2020, 06:51 AM
Donít hold your breath. In addition, you wouldnít like the terms a deal like that came with.

Don't worry, simple sarcasm. This rumor has been spreading quicker than the corona virus.

ParkingatMIA
03-10-2020, 08:13 AM
https://www.aviaposter.com/product-page/envoy-air-embraer-145-n684jw

The designer that makes some pretty cool airplane posters finally made the 145 in Envoy livery if anyone is looking for a cool poster for their office. Iíve ordered the 175 poster from him before and it came out pretty good.

HalyardJammer
03-10-2020, 10:57 AM
https://www.aviaposter.com/product-page/envoy-air-embraer-145-n684jw

The designer that makes some pretty cool airplane posters finally made the 145 in Envoy livery if anyone is looking for a cool poster for their office. Iíve ordered the 175 poster from him before and it came out pretty good.
Shoot, are we going to start advertising here now? Because I've been making vinyl stickers of our airplanes put them on etsy but I didn't want to spam the board and get banned.

Tyrion
03-10-2020, 11:59 AM
https://www.aviaposter.com/product-page/envoy-air-embraer-145-n684jw

The designer that makes some pretty cool airplane posters finally made the 145 in Envoy livery if anyone is looking for a cool poster for their office. Iíve ordered the 175 poster from him before and it came out pretty good.

Don't waste your money. Pedro will give us all one for a Christmas present.

CaseTractor
03-11-2020, 02:16 PM
Should they be out by now? And when they come, do you think the lines will be less in number or affected? Or is it too soon, perhaps in may.

BigZ
03-11-2020, 02:33 PM
Should they be out by now? And when they come, do you think the lines will be less in number or affected? Or is it too soon, perhaps in may.
whenever they come they will be affected.

HalyardJammer
03-11-2020, 02:50 PM
whenever they come they will be affected.
I saw a few days ago that the lines will come out closer to the bidding window because planners are still figuring out what they want to do. But that was at American.

uavking
03-11-2020, 03:45 PM
Should they be out by now? And when they come, do you think the lines will be less in number or affected? Or is it too soon, perhaps in may.

Check your email (whichever one you have filed with ALPA) for an MEC update and check your company email for a Flt Ops update.

Cyio
03-11-2020, 04:06 PM
Check your email (whichever one you have filed with ALPA) for an MEC update and check your company email for a Flt Ops update.
We are screwed. Pretty much sums it up.

AOLfreetrial
03-11-2020, 04:09 PM
No flowback

NoValueAviator
03-11-2020, 06:22 PM
Watch the company stick us all on reserve rather than paying us 72 hrs to block 60 or whatever.

highfarfast
03-11-2020, 06:28 PM
Watch the company stick us all on reserve rather than paying us 72 hrs to block 60 or whatever.

Reserve pays 75 hours.

NoValueAviator
03-11-2020, 06:36 PM
So? In my time here theyíve let their reserve coverage in a single seat exceed 130 pilots without even publishing zero time lines.

But seriously
03-11-2020, 06:41 PM
So? In my time here theyíve let their reserve coverage in a single seat exceed 130 pilots without even publishing zero time lines.


and denied drops due to staffing...

FullThrust
03-11-2020, 09:28 PM
So? In my time here theyíve let their reserve coverage in a single seat exceed 130 pilots without even publishing zero time lines.

That was also when AAG was making money hand over fist...

Ready2board
03-12-2020, 12:41 PM
Lately I see more envoy pilots taking pics of themselves flying airplanes and posting on social media than ever before. Have we lost the sense of professionalism?

rld1k
03-12-2020, 01:27 PM
Lately I see more envoy pilots taking pics of themselves flying airplanes and posting on social media than ever before. Have we lost the sense of professionalism?

This is definitely what we need to be worried about right now

Ready2board
03-12-2020, 01:30 PM
This is definitely what we need to be worried about right now

Following FARs and flying our pax around safely...yea I agree.

pitchattitude
03-12-2020, 01:30 PM
This is definitely what we need to be worried about right now
Should ALWAYS be concerned about professionalism. You want to be an incident during an already bad situation?

Ready2board
03-12-2020, 01:50 PM
The latest one going around the guy has earbuds under his headsets in flight. Embarrassing.

buddies8
03-12-2020, 02:03 PM
Thank management and their idiot parents

FullThrust
03-12-2020, 02:53 PM
Letís not forget the check airman in Miami who is always parading around with his earbuds in 24/7. If heís the guy doing your new hire IOE, that is going to be your first impression and you assume that behavior is normal.

MEGAFUPM
03-12-2020, 03:40 PM
Yes we look very professional in our tent sized shirts and pants. Donít wanna ruin that.

AeroEnvoy
03-12-2020, 04:52 PM
Yea................
could we not put our fellow coworkers on blast. If you donít like it keep it to yourself.

Paid2fly
03-12-2020, 05:02 PM
Yea................





Wow, so very sad...

ninerdriver
03-12-2020, 05:05 PM
Should ALWAYS be concerned about professionalism. You want to be an incident during an already bad situation?
This. Or even forget that... who wants public evidence when the company drags you in to fire you instead of furlough you?

MqWhistleblower
03-12-2020, 05:12 PM
Professionalism at its finest

FAIPMAFIA
03-12-2020, 06:32 PM
Just wondering how long do you guys think this will affect the flow?

I have people asking me if they should come back from mil leave?

havick206
03-12-2020, 06:39 PM
Just wondering how long do you guys think this will affect the flow?

I have people asking me if they should come back from mil leave?

How long is a piece of string? Could be 3 month speed bump or 18 month apocalypse.

Everyoneís best guess going around the rumor mill, is 6 months. But who really knows.