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View Full Version : Upgrade Time NYC


HercTank
01-08-2020, 12:46 PM
Just a new guy on the outside looking in. Not that Iím in a hurry or would even want to at min time but Iím just curious, whatís the upgrade to Cpt time in NY on the 73 or 320? Or are there too many variables to tell? Obviously asking as a new hire that hasnít even been to Indoc yet.
Thanks


SparkySmith
01-08-2020, 12:50 PM
Junior A320 CA in NYC is April 2015 hire.

Junior 737 CA in NYC is an Oct 2015 hire.


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Trip7
01-08-2020, 12:58 PM
Current junior pilot awarded(haven't trained yet):

NYC320A: Jun 2015
NYC73NA: Feb 2016

As far as what it would be for a current new hire IMO too many variables. Network still has a ton of decisions to make in the future that could impact flying on those fleets drastically (MIA focus city, BOS 320 Base, etc etc. My best guess is the plug on both those fleets hover between 3-5 years for the foreseeable future

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HercTank
01-08-2020, 12:58 PM
Junior A320 CA in NYC is April 2015 hire.

Junior 737 CA in NYC is an Oct 2015 hire.


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Thank you, think thatíll speed up with the hiring boom that has started?

freezingflyboy
01-08-2020, 12:59 PM
Junior reserve captain in a base like NYC is not a gig I would wish on my worst enemy. Did it once. Got the t-shirt (it's ugly). Never again.

X1000 if commuting.

Trip7
01-08-2020, 01:07 PM
Junior reserve captain in a base like NYC is not a gig I would wish on my worst enemy. Did it once. Got the t-shirt (it's ugly). Never again.

X1000 if commuting.I agree.

717 was a complete goatrope up there covering the 3 airports. It's fun at first as a New Captain but it starts to get tiring after 6 months. 320 doesn't seem so bad between the better trips and 321 rate reserve pay. 73 seems to be a vacation with 1-2 legs a day Country club flying they have down to the Carribbean and West Coast.

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bugman61
01-08-2020, 01:09 PM
Just a new guy on the outside looking in. Not that Iím in a hurry or would even want to at min time but Iím just curious, whatís the upgrade to Cpt time in NY on the 73 or 320? Or are there too many variables to tell? Obviously asking as a new hire that hasnít even been to Indoc yet.

Thanks



Junior pilots that have been awarded but not trained yet (should be there by summer):

73 Feb 16
320 June 15

You didnít ask but:

220 Mar 16
717 May 16

All of these spots are about 3000-3500 from the bottom of the list which is probably a better indicator of progression with retirements taken into account.

I think the 73 award is a bit of a fluke and would expect it to get back to where the 320 is, and would expect the 220/717 to go more junior in the future depending on what network does with those aircraft.

In general people donít want to be in NYC, especially if they would be on reserve. So if you are up for it there should be good opportunities.

Cosa Nostra
01-08-2020, 03:54 PM
Thank you, think thatíll speed up with the hiring boom that has started?

What's the rush brah???
You'll find FOs making more money than you in both those categories, settle down.

HercTank
01-08-2020, 04:01 PM
What's the rush brah???
You'll find FOs making more money than you in both those categories, settle down.

I was just asking, no hurry. I simply donít have a working knowledge how this industry works since Iím strictly military background. But thanks to everyone before this post that gave valuable insight .... brah

freezingflyboy
01-08-2020, 04:17 PM
Junior pilots that have been awarded but not trained yet (should be there by summer):

73 Feb 16
320 June 15

You didnít ask but:

220 Mar 16
717 May 16

All of these spots are about 3000-3500 from the bottom of the list which is probably a better indicator of progression with retirements taken into account.

I think the 73 award is a bit of a fluke and would expect it to get back to where the 320 is, and would expect the 220/717 to go more junior in the future depending on what network does with those aircraft.

In general people donít want to be in NYC, especially if they would be on reserve. So if you are up for it there should be good opportunities.

For the noobs, it's worth mentioning that all of these "artificially junior" captains are going to be feeling their juniority for a long time as more senior pilots bid into those categories once they can hold a line or schedule they like.

duder
01-08-2020, 04:21 PM
For the noobs, it's worth mentioning that all of these "artificially junior" captains are going to be feeling their juniority for a long time as more senior pilots bid into those categories once they can hold a line or schedule they like.

Yeah even with all the retirements coming up junior Captains will be junior for at least another decade as more senior guys make the move to the left seat. Better getting senior in the right seat and use that seniority to make more money.

bugman61
01-08-2020, 04:57 PM
Yeah even with all the retirements coming up junior Captains will be junior for at least another decade as more senior guys make the move to the left seat. Better getting senior in the right seat and use that seniority to make more money.



3500 pilots retire in the next 5 years and over 6000 in the next decade. The amount of movement that everyone will see is going to be impressive. The junior captains will be just fine.

Trip7
01-08-2020, 05:38 PM
3500 pilots retire in the next 5 years and over 6000 in the next decade. The amount of movement that everyone will see is going to be impressive. The junior captains will be just fine.Agree 100%

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Cosa Nostra
01-08-2020, 05:54 PM
I was just asking, no hurry. I simply donít have a working knowledge how this industry works since Iím strictly military background. But thanks to everyone before this post that gave valuable insight .... brah

Youíll find that most my posts are sarcastic.
A lot of guys here are by passing upgrade , not fun being junior unless you live in base. Good luck.

gloopy
01-09-2020, 08:22 AM
...all of these "artificially junior" captains...

I believe the term you're looking for is "out of seniority". :)

marcal
01-09-2020, 10:33 AM
Junior reserve captain in a base like NYC is not a gig I would wish on my worst enemy. Did it once. Got the t-shirt (it's ugly). Never again.

X1000 if commuting.

If you live in base(particularly NYC) it is great in terms of the opportunities afforded at such an early stage of your career. I'm doing flying that would take me 25-30 years seniority in DTW, MSP, and ATL. I've been here since 2014.

freezingflyboy
01-09-2020, 12:10 PM
If you live in base(particularly NYC) it is great in terms of the opportunities afforded at such an early stage of your career. I'm doing flying that would take me 25-30 years seniority in DTW, MSP, and ATL. I've been here since 2014.

What kind of flying might that be? Are you saying you get the good trips senior pilots call in sick for? Are you doing it on your terms or getting jerked around at the end of a 12 hour phone leash? Inquiring minds wanna know.

marcal
01-10-2020, 05:22 AM
What kind of flying might that be? Are you saying you get the good trips senior pilots call in sick for? Are you doing it on your terms or getting jerked around at the end of a 12 hour phone leash? Inquiring minds wanna know.

Iím on reserve and play the game hard(dropping days/swapping days/using PB days, etc). By doing this it allows me to avoid longer trips that the vast majority of NYC commuters want and leaves me mostly 1-2 days that I do want. This year I was scheduled to fly Tgiving and Xmas and through creative yellow slipping and GS with PB days I was home for both. I am consistently getting the days off I want, flying trip lengths I want, and in my house every single day of the month for the most part(spent 39 nights away in 2019). In any other base outside of NYC, this would be absolutely impossible at my seniority. It all has to do with the fact that no one wants to live here. Full disclosure as mentioned above, I do have to work hard at it and play with Icrew more than most. It helps tremendously that what I want and what most commuters want is vastly different.

freezingflyboy
01-10-2020, 05:55 AM
Iím on reserve and play the game hard(dropping days/swapping days/using PB days, etc). By doing this it allows me to avoid longer trips that the vast majority of NYC commuters want and leaves me mostly 1-2 days that I do want. This year I was scheduled to fly Tgiving and Xmas and through creative yellow slipping and GS with PB days I was home for both. I am consistently getting the days off I want, flying trip lengths I want, and in my house every single day of the month for the most part(spent 39 nights away in 2019). In any other base outside of NYC, this would be absolutely impossible at my seniority. It all has to do with the fact that no one wants to live here. Full disclosure as mentioned above, I do have to work hard at it and play with Icrew more than most. It helps tremendously that what I want and what most commuters want is vastly different.

Aye, gotcha. Yeah, I'm a commuter and that sounds like a nightmare for me. I'd much rather fly easy 4, 5 or 6 day trips 2-3 times a month. A perfect example of one pilot's trash being another pilot's treasure. Cheers! :D

V1 McFlyerson
01-10-2020, 05:56 AM
Iím on reserve and play the game hard(dropping days/swapping days/using PB days, etc). By doing this it allows me to avoid longer trips that the vast majority of NYC commuters want and leaves me mostly 1-2 days that I do want. This year I was scheduled to fly Tgiving and Xmas and through creative yellow slipping and GS with PB days I was home for both. I am consistently getting the days off I want, flying trip lengths I want, and in my house every single day of the month for the most part(spent 39 nights away in 2019). In any other base outside of NYC, this would be absolutely impossible at my seniority. It all has to do with the fact that no one wants to live here. Full disclosure as mentioned above, I do have to work hard at it and play with Icrew more than most. It helps tremendously that what I want and what most commuters want is vastly different.


Kudos! Sounds good to me.

StartngOvr
01-10-2020, 08:10 AM
Aye, gotcha. Yeah, I'm a commuter and that sounds like a nightmare for me. I'd much rather fly easy 4, 5 or 6 day trips 2-3 times a month. A perfect example of one pilot's trash being another pilot's treasure. Cheers! :D


I canít even comprehend the words ďeasyĒ and ď6 day tripĒ being in the same sentence. Scheduling your life around huge blocks away from home like that is difficult IMO. Probably this doesnít apply if youíre single and/or no kids. This is one reason why I choose to live a 60-90 drive from NYC. As always, ones manís trash......

My experience and preferences in NYC are much more in line with what marcal describes. I have however (mostly by choice) spent more nights on the road than indicated. With seniority in mid to low 90% over last two years, I also was home thanksgiving and Christmas. It does require some flexibility to work the rolling thunder and PB days and as was stated, work iCrew fairly regularly.

Downsides:

Vacation. And this is even worse this year. There are so few desirable weeks available to bid, a summer vacation week or weeks is unlikely. (Requiring a more even distribution of weeks through the year was one of my pet peeves in the PWA survey.)

Seniority. Seniority is stagnant. As bids go out, more senior pilots consistently bid in above, preventing upward movement. It wasnít unexpected, but it is getting a bit longer than I expected. The M88 displacements affected the progression a bit, I think.


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freezingflyboy
01-10-2020, 08:54 AM
I canít even comprehend the words ďeasyĒ and ď6 day tripĒ being in the same sentence. Scheduling your life around huge blocks away from home like that is difficult IMO. Probably this doesnít apply if youíre single and/or no kids. This is one reason why I choose to live a 60-90 drive from NYC. As always, ones man's trash...

Oh I dunno...I wouldn't exactly call a 6 day, 4 leg trip to and from Europe strenuous. Longer than I care for, sure. But by no means "hard".

And where you see long stretches away, I see long stretches at home. Been a big fan of the 5-6 on/9-10 off lifestyle.