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View Full Version : Junior Captain


avi8tor220
01-14-2020, 02:14 PM
With the rumored AE coming out this week, any guesses to how junior the captains will go on this round?


Big E 757
01-14-2020, 02:17 PM
With the rumored AE coming out this week, any guesses to how junior the captains will go on this round?

where did you hear that an AE was coming out this week?

I’m just curious. Last I heard it was going to be late Feb. someone even predicted the date...Feb 30th. :-)

forgot to bid
01-14-2020, 02:21 PM
Rumors in training are mid january so likely this week or next.


Jaww
01-14-2020, 02:21 PM
where did you hear that an AE was coming out this week?

I’m just curious. Last I heard it was going to be late Feb. someone even predicted the date...Feb 30th. :-)

Crew resources video on Skynet said on or about the 17th.

DWC CAP10 USAF
01-14-2020, 02:27 PM
With the rumored AE coming out this week, any guesses to how junior the captains will go on this round?

The last AE saw three people who were just under five years get a plane that wasn’t the 717/220 (320) at a base other than junior NYC (LAX) AO I guess a few more of those will happen.

717/220 around the 3.69 year mark is my guess.

Big E 757
01-14-2020, 02:30 PM
Crew resources video on Skynet said on or about the 17th.


Thanks, that keeps with their MO of posting the bid on Friday, right before shutting the lights off for the weekend. :)

Chakerik
01-14-2020, 02:35 PM
Anyone that saw the video on skyhub see what kind of ae it would be? Lots of 330 and 350 and cap slots?

Jaww
01-14-2020, 02:44 PM
Anyone that saw the video on skyhub see what kind of ae it would be? Lots of 330 and 350 and cap slots?

No hints were given. Just that it’s going to be one big one instead of two separate ones before summer.

Fredturbo
01-14-2020, 03:15 PM
With the rumored AE coming out this week, any guesses to how junior the captains will go on this round?
Definitely out of seniority.

Chakerik
01-14-2020, 03:45 PM
Definitely out of seniority.
not this again :rolleyes:

DELTAFO
01-14-2020, 03:52 PM
with the rumored ae coming out this week, any guesses to how junior the captains will go on this round?
12,000
.....

hvydvr
01-14-2020, 03:57 PM
First really big AE since the Optimizer came into use prior to last summer. I’m guessing junior captains, particularly those in the cesspool that is currently NYC NB, take a hard look at how their lives might be improved by a 330 or 765 B position.

Der Meister
01-14-2020, 04:07 PM
First really big AE since the Optimizer came into use prior to last summer. I’m guessing junior captains, particularly those in the cesspool that is currently NYC NB, take a hard look at how their lives might be improved by a 330 or 765 B position.

I agree WB FO will go more SR than NB CA will on the most optimized fleets.

m3113n1a1
01-14-2020, 04:54 PM
I agree WB FO will go more SR than NB CA will on the most optimized fleets.
Agreed. 90% of WB FOs can already hold captain on a NB.

Der Meister
01-14-2020, 05:12 PM
Agreed. 90% of WB FOs can already hold captain on a NB.

not to beat a dead horse but at UAL, WB FO is more JR to any CA position. That's just simply down to work rules and the fact that our peers have many more high paying aircraft. So why do WB pay rates at Dal really matter?

Gunfighter
01-14-2020, 05:30 PM
Definitely out of seniority.
Thanks for that. It brightened my day.

First really big AE since the Optimizer came into use prior to last summer. I’m guessing junior captains, particularly those in the cesspool that is currently NYC NB, take a hard look at how their lives might be improved by a 330 or 765 B position.

Nothing to see here, move along. The real story is about how it's raining Green in the NB categories.

not to beat a dead horse but at UAL, WB FO is more JR to any CA position. That's just simply down to work rules and the fact that our peers have many more high paying aircraft. So why do WB pay rates at Dal really matter?
UAL uses their WB fleet on lots of domestic transcon routes, similar to our use of the 7ER. The bottom (domestic) portion of the 7ER fleet is a new hire airplane at Delta. What is United's seniority on the International WB flying?

Gone Flying
01-14-2020, 05:35 PM
No hints were given. Just that it’s going to be one big one instead of two separate ones before summer.
I wonder if this is to keep all the new hires over the next few months in NY through the summer

fishforfun
01-14-2020, 05:37 PM
Thanks for that. It brightened my day.



Nothing to see here, move along. The real story is about how it's raining Green in the NB categories.


UAL uses their WB fleet on lots of domestic transcon routes, similar to our use of the 7ER. The bottom (domestic) portion of the 7ER fleet is a new hire airplane at Delta. What is United's seniority on the International WB flying?

Does United’s 777 or 787 pay less for domestic flying?

DWC CAP10 USAF
01-14-2020, 05:54 PM
What is United's seniority on the International WB flying?

According to their messge board, they have FO's less than 1 year on property going to the 777.

SideSticker
01-14-2020, 05:58 PM
I’m guessing junior captains, particularly those in the cesspool that is currently NYC NB, take a hard look at how their lives might be improved by a 330 or 765 B position.

LOS layovers, here i come!

Der Meister
01-14-2020, 06:20 PM
UAL uses their WB fleet on lots of domestic transcon routes, similar to our use of the 7ER. The bottom (domestic) portion of the 7ER fleet is a new hire airplane at Delta. What is United's seniority on the International WB flying?

They still pay 777/787 rates to fly those transcons. Which last I checked was (352CA/240FO) United vs (296CA/202FO) Delta that's comparing what JR CA's/FOs can hold at DAL so no 76-4.... So basically a loss of 58k-38k a year, which as long as we keep getting PS we can make up. But we loose so much simply because we have less higher paying aircraft than our peers.

Chakerik
01-14-2020, 07:47 PM
They still pay 777/787 rates to fly those transcons. Which last I checked was (352CA/240FO) United vs (296CA/202FO) Delta that's comparing what JR CA's/FOs can hold at DAL so no 76-4.... So basically a loss of 58k-38k a year, which as long as we keep getting PS we can make up. But we loose so much simply because we have less higher paying aircraft than our peers.

They also have global reserve which is a huge qol hit....

Der Meister
01-15-2020, 02:14 AM
They also have global reserve which is a huge qol hit....

So do we, it's called a reroute...

Big E 757
01-15-2020, 04:00 AM
They also have global reserve which is a huge qol hit....


What is global reserve? They can use an EWR reserve to cover a DEN trip?

Tailhookah
01-15-2020, 04:41 AM
not to beat a dead horse but at UAL, WB FO is more JR to any CA position. That's just simply down to work rules and the fact that our peers have many more high paying aircraft. So why do WB pay rates at Dal really matter?

False. I have buddies that are very senior WB FO’s that can easily hold NB CA at UAL.

Chakerik
01-15-2020, 04:56 AM
What is global reserve? They can use an EWR reserve to cover a DEN trip?

Ask your ual buddies about it. From what I understand it's why a lot of people have been avoiding rsv on wb fleets (and why it goes so jr.). Have 3 days of availability but theres a 6 day trip? They can give it to you (vs being forced to do a greenslip here or breaking up the trip).

Basically you get a few days off a month that are hard days that they cant touch. 6 of em. But they can move the rest. No thanks to that .

That's my rudimentary understanding.

crewdawg
01-15-2020, 05:31 AM
What is United's seniority on the International WB flying?

777 going down to 1st year guys at UAL. Great for them!


So do we, it's called a reroute...

In 3 years on a WB, I've been rerouted twice. Once on a GS that got me home earlier than scheduled. Another time when DTW shut down due to being covered in a sheet of ice. We were notified before even getting ready and turn my layover from 24 hours in AMS to 48 hours. From chatting with my UAL buddies, global reserve is much worse. We want their WBs, but not their WB reserve rules.

TED74
01-15-2020, 05:36 AM
We want their WBs, but not their WB reserve rules.

One of those is an arguably simple fix in section 6. If UAL corrects to higher QOL reserve similar to ours, that'd be a pretty desirable fleet to fly.

GucciBoy
01-15-2020, 06:28 AM
They still pay 777/787 rates to fly those transcons. Which last I checked was (352CA/240FO) United vs (296CA/202FO) Delta that's comparing what JR CA's/FOs can hold at DAL so no 76-4.... So basically a loss of 58k-38k a year, which as long as we keep getting PS we can make up. But we loose so much simply because we have less higher paying aircraft than our peers.



I’m not sure what you’re trying to say with these salary numbers, but comparing outliers to outliers, their 777 year-2 rate is $174, DL’s 767-400 rate is $165. Hardly a large disparity.

Comparing other outliers, how many 2-year captains does UA have? Delta also had a 4-month captain, but I’m not sure they got to keep their seat. All of the 2-year captains were able to hold on to a left seat as far as I know.

saturn
01-15-2020, 06:38 AM
They still pay 777/787 rates to fly those transcons. Which last I checked was (352CA/240FO) United vs (296CA/202FO) Delta that's comparing what JR CA's/FOs can hold at DAL so no 76-4.... So basically a loss of 58k-38k a year, which as long as we keep getting PS we can make up. But we loose so much simply because we have less higher paying aircraft than our peers.

They have PS too you know. Yes, we have higher profit percent. But it's not like we grossed 14% more in PS than they did in 2019. I think theirs was close to 10%. And if they get paid 58k more in your example, then a few lower % could match match our PS sum total still.

Milksheikh
01-15-2020, 07:16 AM
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say with these salary numbers, but comparing outliers to outliers, their 777 year-2 rate is $174, DL’s 767-400 rate is $165. Hardly a large disparity.

Comparing other outliers, how many 2-year captains does UA have? Delta also had a 4-month captain, but I’m not sure they got to keep their seat. All of the 2-year captains were able to hold on to a left seat as far as I know.

maybe he was meaning something like this? This is from another thread..

“I was hired by delta and United in the same month several years ago. When I take my 777 pay rate and multiply it by 1.08%, it beats the 767 I could hold there multiplied at 1.16%, by $30/hour.”

Scoop
01-15-2020, 07:25 AM
not to beat a dead horse but at UAL, WB FO is more JR to any CA position. That's just simply down to work rules and the fact that our peers have many more high paying aircraft. So why do WB pay rates at Dal really matter?


Not even close. One of my best friends is about 30% on the FO list, 767/757 at EWR and he can hold Captain in many of UALs bases.


Just as we do, they have many “lifer” FOs who retire in right seat for QOL.


Scoop

crewdawg
01-15-2020, 07:29 AM
“I was hired by delta and United in the same month several years ago. When I take my 777 pay rate and multiply it by 1.08%, it beats the 767 I could hold there multiplied at 1.16%, by $30/hour.”

I'm fairly certain that poster could hold 330/764 at DAL, so he's actually be a few bucks behind.

Milksheikh
01-15-2020, 07:51 AM
I'm fairly certain that poster could hold 330/764 at DAL, so he's actually be a few bucks behind.

Ah could be. About how long is it to hold 330 at delta?

fishforfun
01-15-2020, 08:11 AM
Ah could be. About how long is it to hold 330 at delta?

4+ years. Current junior is 1/16 hire.

crewdawg
01-15-2020, 08:22 AM
Ah could be. About how long is it to hold 330 at delta?

When he was hired it was 2 years. It's currently about 2 years on the 764.

Der Meister
01-15-2020, 08:26 AM
Not even close. One of my best friends is about 30% on the FO list, 767/757 at EWR and he can hold Captain in many of UALs bases.

Just as we do, they have many “lifer” FOs who retire in right seat for QOL.
Scoop

I realize that a few of you didnt understand me saying that to the most JR WB FO at UAL cant hold CA. That's why I said "WB FO is more JR to any CA position". Reading comprehension is key...

gliderguider
01-15-2020, 08:36 AM
It’s become a cascading cliche on here that when anyone asks about junior captains, invariably the conversation pivots to WB B, and the mere mention of WB’s invokes comparisons to United. How about everyone stop caring so much what other people bid, and do the type of flying that appeals to you.

Herkflyr
01-15-2020, 09:32 AM
Reading comprehension is key...

As is clear, easily understood writing.

weekendflyer
01-15-2020, 09:31 PM
May 2017 MOAB, junior 73N CA NYC was high 11k’s, NYC 320 low 12k’s, NYC 717 12.5 so guessing around the same numbers on this bid.

Han Solo
01-16-2020, 12:55 AM
They also have global reserve which is a huge qol hit....
don’t fool yourself, we do too. “For res only from NYC xxxx”

crewdawg
01-16-2020, 03:41 AM
don’t fool yourself, we do too. “For res only from NYC xxxx”

I think you misunderstand what they mean, it's not moving trips from one base to another. From my understanding global reserve is when you only have 3 days left on reserve, but scheduling needs to fill a 6 day trip. The company can move reserve days from later in the month and viola you now have 6 days available, have fun on your 6 day. In 3 years on 330, I have never been worked more than one day into my off days. That one day was only because DTW shut down for half the day.

Han Solo
01-16-2020, 03:52 AM
I think you misunderstand what they mean, it's not moving trips from one base to another. From my understanding global reserve is when you only have 3 days left on reserve, but scheduling needs to fill a 6 day trip. The company can move reserve days from later in the month and viola you now have 6 days available, have fun on your 6 day. In 3 years on 330, I have never been worked more than one day into my off days. That one day was only because DTW shut down for half the day.

ahh, thanks for the clarification

tennisguru
01-16-2020, 03:53 AM
I think you misunderstand what they mean, it's not moving trips from one base to another. From my understanding global reserve is when you only have 3 days left on reserve, but scheduling needs to fill a 6 day trip. The company can move reserve days from later in the month and viola you now have 6 days available, have fun on your 6 day. In 3 years on 330, I have never been worked more than one day into my off days. That one day was only because DTW shut down for half the day.

Yeah I think “global” reserve is a poor term. It’s more like “rolling” reserve...

Chakerik
01-16-2020, 04:25 AM
Yeah I think “global” reserve is a poor term. It’s more like “rolling” reserve...

I dont make up their terminology

CX500T
01-16-2020, 04:52 AM
13,250 Junior Captain

Calling it now.

Then all the 9500-13249 are gonna ***** it's out of seniority, even though they could have held it if they bid it.

Most likely NYC 717A.
NYC 220A wildcard, depending on how people like the bid pack.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

tennisguru
01-16-2020, 05:57 AM
I dont make up their terminology


I know, that wasn't a dig at you.

swamp
01-16-2020, 06:06 AM
Definitely out of seniority.
Then file a grievance with the union if someone jr to you gets a Capt spot you bid for...

bugman61
01-16-2020, 06:15 AM
Then file a grievance with the union if someone jr to you gets a Capt spot you bid for...



He was making a joke.

swamp
01-16-2020, 06:52 AM
He was making a joke.
Well aware, but it’s over played, and heard it too many times when I was a capt “out of seniority” 🙄, but thanks for speaking on his behalf.

SayMach
01-16-2020, 07:11 AM
I think a MOAB will result in a Captain at 12,700. If it’s a smaller bid, I think it will be around 11,000. The NB schedules in NYC are pretty terrible lately.

Chakerik
01-16-2020, 07:50 AM
I know, that wasn't a dig at you.

Ah, no worries.

Denny Crane
01-16-2020, 08:23 AM
I gotta say, after listening to BS talk about their new tool for looking at AE bidding and future AE’s.............their more AE’s more often strategy is gonna go by the wayside.....and we are back to fewer/larger AE’s. Gee, that lasted a long time....not.

Denny

Chakerik
01-16-2020, 08:31 AM
I gotta say, after listening to BS talk about their new tool for looking at AE bidding and future AE’s.............their more AE’s more often strategy is gonna go by the wayside.....and we are back to fewer/larger AE’s. Gee, that lasted a long time....not.

Denny

Until 6 months from now when they say back to smaller more frequent aes 😂

MoonShot
01-16-2020, 08:37 AM
I gotta say, after listening to BS talk about their new tool for looking at AE bidding and future AE’s.............their more AE’s more often strategy is gonna go by the wayside.....and we are back to fewer/larger AE’s. Gee, that lasted a long time....not.

Denny

Sort of an AE optimizer.

Denny Crane
01-16-2020, 09:03 AM
Sort of an AE optimizer.

‘And we know how well optimizers work. :eek:

Denny

ERflyer
01-16-2020, 09:59 AM
Nothing to see here, move along. The real story is about how it's raining Green in the NB categories.



It‘a a study of contrasts. They’re either complaining they’re fatigued all the time or gloating about how they’re getting 160 hours of pay a month.

MasterOfPuppets
01-16-2020, 01:57 PM
It’s called Global reserve because you can only have your days rolled for a global trip (outside CONUS/MEX/CAN/Hawaii).

they cannot roll your days for a transcon. The worst I ever had I 1 day left rolled into a 6 day trip. The worst part is you don’t get to pick the days you get back, they are taken from your next reserve block.

Uniteds Reserve sucks something fierce.......I know Iv been on it nearly my entire career. IF the UAL MEC puts capital into that section we’ll have a pretty good contract.

as far as NB CA vs WB FO.....I can be bottom line holder on the 777 in SFO/EWR and on the CA side I can be bottom line holder on the 320 in SFO/EWR. Reserve sucks bad that’s why the WB goes junior on the reserve side and senior on the lineholder side.