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View Full Version : Out West New Training Facility??


gzsg
01-18-2020, 08:08 AM
Hearing rumors we might purchase a simulator training facility out west.

Anyone else hear this?


Bluto
01-18-2020, 08:10 AM
The universe bends to my will, so it'll be SLC. Place your bets!

Bluto
01-18-2020, 08:11 AM
But place them quietly. Ironically, betting is illegal here.


The new guy
01-18-2020, 08:13 AM
Ya in Seattle part of 737 max deal!

Klondike Bear
01-18-2020, 08:19 AM
We had a real nice one in MSP but got rid of it. Why would we spend billions on something we had 7 years ago. Oh yeah itís Delta.

rambodog
01-18-2020, 08:56 AM
Please tell us more about Natco. Seems that place was full of unicorns. Have yet to hear a NW guy say a bad word about it.

crewdawg
01-18-2020, 09:08 AM
Please tell us more about Natco. Seems that place was full of unicorns. Have yet to hear a NW guy say a bad word about it.

Lol right! Is there money in cargo? You guys had 747s? Huh, I've never heard it mentioned. :D

CoefficientX
01-18-2020, 09:35 AM
Please tell us more about Natco. Seems that place was full of unicorns. Have yet to hear a NW guy say a bad word about it.

Iíve never heard of a single mugging, stabbing or armed robbery near the old NATCO facility. You did have to be on the lookout for deer, wild turkey and geese however.

RJ4LIFE
01-18-2020, 09:55 AM
They would probably see an uptick in pilots bidding on to new equipment if that is really the case. For so many (myself included) the biggest deterrent to changing planes is a month on VA Ave. A month in SLC or somewhere similar would be a whole different story.

gzsg
01-18-2020, 10:15 AM
Iím sure itís just a ridiculous rumor.

Sailing has always be spot on. The amount of training required by massive retirements has been done in the past and itís a walk in the park.

Is this rumor nonsense Sailing?

Klondike Bear
01-18-2020, 10:17 AM
Please tell us more about Natco. Seems that place was full of unicorns. Have yet to hear a NW guy say a bad word about it.

I wasnít a NW guy but I did go up there for DC-9 school after the merger. It was a nice facility much newer than OC-1 or 2. It was set up like a hub and spoke which was very nice. If we are building a new facility it would have saved a lot of money to have just kept the one we already had.

This makes me think of the 777 rest facility fiasco.

Fourpaw
01-18-2020, 10:17 AM
Iíve heard thereís some internet out West...out the Californie Way.

RockyBoy
01-18-2020, 10:18 AM
The universe bends to my will, so it'll be SLC. Place your bets!

LAX more likely. There is just a small Flight Safety building in SLC. Unless they build something new, I would bet LAX. Flight safety has a big place in LGB? Iím sure we would buy an existing facility vs building something new.

GoneSailing
01-18-2020, 11:39 AM
LAX more likely. There is just a small Flight Safety building in SLC. Unless they build something new, I would bet LAX. Flight safety has a big place in LGB? Iím sure we would buy an existing facility vs building something new.
I'd agree. LAX or SEA...

dbrownie
01-18-2020, 11:46 AM
Iíve never heard of a single mugging, stabbing or armed robbery near the old NATCO facility. You did have to be on the lookout for deer, wild turkey and geese however.

Not all NATCO hotel memories were great.
I remember when 3 crew members were robbed and assaulted in the hotel parking lot late after returning from a sim session.
(one of the hotels near the Mall they put us up at) I spoke with one of the pilots he said it was at gunpoint, made them get on the ground and one of the robbers kicked a woman pilot so hard in the head he was surprised it didnít kill her...
She was having trouble getting off her rings.
The company kept it quiet (as they all do) and moved us to another hotel.

Eventually we moved to down town St Paul.

crewdawg
01-18-2020, 11:52 AM
Va Ave seriously has zero impact on my AE bidding decision making....that'd be pretty short-sighted. That said, I could get behind a SLC training center.

Funk
01-18-2020, 12:04 PM
Maui. Maui is a new training center I would wholeheartedly support.

sailingfun
01-18-2020, 12:18 PM
Iím sure itís just a ridiculous rumor.

Sailing has always be spot on. The amount of training required by massive retirements has been done in the past and itís a walk in the park.

Is this rumor nonsense Sailing?

Is this the rumor you have been spreading about the collapse of the training department since 2012? Or is this the statements you were making that the new tough MEC was going to deliver a great contract ontime because we have so much leverage? If itís just about sims out west I have no idea. With the volume of training I suspect there will be additional offsite training in addition to Miami. Where will probably come down to the best deal. We once sent a lot of pilots to Zurich for training. I might change aircraft for that deal!

forgot to bid
01-18-2020, 12:20 PM
Hearing rumors we might purchase a simulator training facility out west.

Anyone else hear this?

Haven't heard a thing about it.

Why would we do it btw? We are about to clear out MD88 simulators and 757 simulators after that.

tennisguru
01-18-2020, 01:44 PM
Haven't heard a thing about it.

Why would we do it btw? We are about to clear out MD88 simulators and 757 simulators after that.

And maybe 717's too? Rumor is there is an expensive nav issue that might cut move up their retirements.

CoefficientX
01-18-2020, 01:55 PM
Not all NATCO hotel memories were great.
I remember when 3 crew members were robbed and assaulted in the hotel parking lot late after returning from a sim session.
(one of the hotels near the Mall they put us up at) I spoke with one of the pilots he said it was at gunpoint, made them get on the ground and one of the robbers kicked a woman pilot so hard in the head he was surprised it didnít kill her...
She was having trouble getting off her rings.
The company kept it quiet (as they all do) and moved us to another hotel.

Eventually we moved to down town St Paul.

Yep, thatís why I said ďnearĒ NATCO. That hotel is 8 miles away.

sailingfun
01-18-2020, 02:32 PM
And maybe 717's too? Rumor is there is an expensive nav issue that might cut move up their retirements.

The leases were just extended through 2029 if I recall.

gzsg
01-18-2020, 02:36 PM
Is this the rumor you have been spreading about the collapse of the training department since 2012? Or is this the statements you were making that the new tough MEC was going to deliver a great contract ontime because we have so much leverage? If itís just about sims out west I have no idea. With the volume of training I suspect there will be additional offsite training in addition to Miami. Where will probably come down to the best deal. We once sent a lot of pilots to Zurich for training. I might change aircraft for that deal!

Just a question. You seem to be in the know.

i have 100% confidence in our negotiators and our leadership.

C2019 will be outstanding across the board. I have never been more confident in my 35 years.

sailingfun
01-18-2020, 02:38 PM
Just a question. You seem to be in the know.

i have 100% confidence in our negotiators and our leadership.

C2019 will be outstanding across the board. I have never been more confident in my 35 years.

Your post last fall predicting a quick contract.

Not sure if we can post it here but Captain Gummís November 6th weekly update shows we are making progress, meeting off sight for accelerated talks and have an aggressive schedule going forward.

I may be the only one who thinks so but in my opinion Captain Gumm and our management want this behind them and know itís in their best interest to make it happen.

On their best day United and American are a ****** show. It isnít even a race. They are stuck in the chocks.

American would be better off if Parker left and their was no CEO. Lassie could do a better job. Although they are both good at digging holes.

With American, United and Delta hiring 1300 plus a year their will be no shows at all three for new hires.

The regionals will collapse in late 2020 or early 2021.

I think we are in the perfect spot. We need a contract that puts bankruptcy touches behind us and we can win together win management day after day.

We couldnít have a better negotiating committee backed by the strongest of leaders.

tunes
01-18-2020, 04:01 PM
Haven't heard a thing about it.

Why would we do it btw? We are about to clear out MD88 simulators and 757 simulators after that.
the latter will be around another 8-10 years

zippinbye
01-18-2020, 06:04 PM
ANA owns a simulator operation about 3 miles east of KLAS. Weíve used 88 sim time there over the years. 2 737 sims (1 NG), 2 80 series Douglas, one decrepit 757 and a 707/ KC-135. At least 2 empty bays last time I was there. Pretty sure itís a leased building, but itís definitely purpose-built with all the right power, HVAC and a huge garage door at each bay, for easy truck-in, truck-out.. Lots of class room/ briefing space too.New enough and far enough from the hood to be on par with NATCO, but definitely smaller. Plenty of nearby non-casino hotels and food/shopping/entertainment. Iíve heard Tokyo HQ isnít pleased with the training centerís financial performance. On the radar, maybe?

bigdaddie
01-18-2020, 06:19 PM
Is this the rumor you have been spreading about the collapse of the training department since 2012? Or is this the statements you were making that the new tough MEC was going to deliver a great contract ontime because we have so much leverage? If itís just about sims out west I have no idea. With the volume of training I suspect there will be additional offsite training in addition to Miami. Where will probably come down to the best deal. We once sent a lot of pilots to Zurich for training. I might change aircraft for that deal!
What are you *****ing about Sailing? We're getting $28M in improvements! Oh crap, I thought there was another zero there. Still WAY thin with another zero IMHO.

Baradium
01-18-2020, 07:34 PM
We had a real nice one in MSP but got rid of it. Why would we spend billions on something we had 7 years ago. Oh yeah itís Delta.

Because keeping unneeded buildings idle for almost a decade is always the best business decision. I agree it'd be nice to have it now, but that doesn't mean that nearly a decade of it not being necessary can be so easily overlooked.

Der Meister
01-18-2020, 08:30 PM
Not sure if we can post it here but Captain Gummís November 6th weekly update shows we are making progress, meeting off sight for accelerated talks and have an aggressive schedule going forward

Anyone that calls themselves Captain with out actually being able to hold Captain, should not be trusted. He can't even get his title correct with out over inflating it, why should be believe anything he says. So far he has brought nothing but high ALV's and a horrible summer operation.

Tailhookah
01-18-2020, 09:01 PM
Please tell us more about Natco. Seems that place was full of unicorns. Have yet to hear a NW guy say a bad word about it.

Thatís because it was a very nice facility. No unicorns but the Swedish Bikini team gave out free coffee and cream filled donuts every morning, right before the massages.

sailingfun
01-19-2020, 03:20 AM
What are you *****ing about Sailing? We're getting $28M in improvements! Oh crap, I thought there was another zero there. Still WAY thin with another zero IMHO.

You need to read and understand what is happening better. The 28 million is in closed sections with little monetary value so the number is useless. Ask your reps what sections are closed. The company has provided no response to our openers to the sections where the money is. Itís kind of like your wife wanting to remodel the house and getting bids. You ask her the price so far and she says only 3500. You think thatís great until you find the only bid back is the half bath downstairs.
Ask your reps for the current table positions to be published.

sailingfun
01-19-2020, 03:25 AM
Anyone that calls themselves Captain with out actually being able to hold Captain, should not be trusted. He can't even get his title correct with out over inflating it, why should be believe anything he says. So far he has brought nothing but high ALV's and a horrible summer operation.

The post was a GZSG post copied about how the MEC was quickly going to finish the contract. I agree with you on Gumm but irrelevant to the discussion.

forgot to bid
01-19-2020, 03:58 AM
the latter will be around another 8-10 years

That's what I mean, 88s first then 757s. It will take that long.

RonRicco
01-19-2020, 04:36 AM
The post was a GZSG post copied about how the MEC was quickly going to finish the contract. I agree with you on Gumm but irrelevant to the discussion.

If he has not deleted them, someone could go search GZSGís prior posts to see all the predictions and flip flopping.

By the way, do you remember what his prior screen name was?

Big E 757
01-19-2020, 04:42 AM
You need to read and understand what is happening better. The 28 million is in closed sections with little monetary value so the number is useless. Ask your reps what sections are closed. The company has provided no response to our openers to the sections where the money is. Itís kind of like your wife wanting to remodel the house and getting bids. You ask her the price so far and she says only 3500. You think thatís great until you find the only bid back is the half bath downstairs.
Ask your reps for the current table positions to be published.


Hahaha. I have to give credit where credit is due...that was a perfect comparison. And most of us can relate. Well done!

gzsg
01-19-2020, 07:20 AM
You need to read and understand what is happening better. The 28 million is in closed sections with little monetary value so the number is useless. Ask your reps what sections are closed. The company has provided no response to our openers to the sections where the money is. Itís kind of like your wife wanting to remodel the house and getting bids. You ask her the price so far and she says only 3500. You think thatís great until you find the only bid back is the half bath downstairs.
Ask your reps for the current table positions to be published.

Why havenít they responded to our sections that involve money? Captain Gumm stayed he wanted to be done by the amendable date.

gzsg
01-19-2020, 07:21 AM
If he has not deleted them, someone could go search GZSGís prior posts to see all the predictions and flip flopping.

By the way, do you remember what his prior screen name was?

It is the only one I have ever used. And as you know I donít hide behind a screen name.

Jerry Fielding

notEnuf
01-19-2020, 07:33 AM
You need to read and understand what is happening better. The 28 million is in closed sections with little monetary value so the number is useless. Ask your reps what sections are closed. The company has provided no response to our openers to the sections where the money is. Itís kind of like your wife wanting to remodel the house and getting bids. You ask her the price so far and she says only 3500. You think thatís great until you find the only bid back is the half bath downstairs.
Ask your reps for the current table positions to be published.

All true but the company went immediately to the only third party (mommy) before even responding to our proposals. They didnít even ďtalkĒ but professed to be working diligently for the last 9 months. Lesson learned, we need to open with pay and work rules and any other big ticket items to keep the company from stagnation until news and the economy favors their paltry positions. Now the doom and gloom prognosticators will start getting more active and if we have a single event or slow GDP quarter (or a contested election full of uncertainty 🙄 yup theyíll find something) they will come to a crescendo. This is all expectation building and since or MEC isnít tamping down expectations for them, the company will have to do their own drag out until their give amounts seem palatable. This will be a long slog but if they see any brand tarnish they will have a decision to make. This summer will be the catalyst for them digging in or making a deal that has what the pilots seek.

My money is on this summer going poorly because of their own crisis created by a gummed up staffing model that will rely even more on the premium pay carrot that many have a real distaste for now. Iím getting NO summer vacation again and will have to make my own. I think several people with children are in the same place. I also think the empty nesters and the singles are not nearly enough to pull this off. Rest assured the pilot group as a whole and the union will be the scapegoats. It always gets ugly before a good contract. Turbulence has increased along your route.

SideSticker
01-19-2020, 07:42 AM
Because keeping unneeded buildings idle for almost a decade is always the best business decision. I agree it'd be nice to have it now, but that doesn't mean that nearly a decade of it not being necessary can be so easily overlooked.
​​​​​​
Hard to argue that it was a prudent buisness decision when Delta completed a major renovation only 11 months before the decision to close. More like a political decision to prevent a North/south bipolar training organization to develop.

Besides, 5 year training lock will obviate need for a new facility.

notEnuf
01-19-2020, 08:13 AM
​​​​​​
Hard to argue that it was a prudent buisness decision when Delta completed a major renovation only 11 months before the decision to close. More like a political decision to prevent a North/south bipolar training organization to develop.

Besides, 5 year training lock will obviate need for a new facility.

The Vikings desperately needed a new consolidated team campus and practice facility. They had facilities spread all over the twin cities.

crewdawg
01-19-2020, 09:28 AM
I also think the empty nesters and the singles are not nearly enough to pull this off.

Whoa whoa whoa, what makes you think single people don't want summer vacations too? :D

Baradium
01-19-2020, 10:26 AM
​​​​​​
Hard to argue that it was a prudent buisness decision when Delta completed a major renovation only 11 months before the decision to close. More like a political decision to prevent a North/south bipolar training organization to develop.

Besides, 5 year training lock will obviate need for a new facility.

You say it is hard to argue it was a prudent business decision and then promptly give another example of why it may have been a prudent business decision. The renovation money may be irrelevant depending on what they were paid for the space, but if they decided that training needed to be centralized at least for a period of time to ensure consistency then that could easily push it over the edge.

Av8rPHX
01-20-2020, 02:20 PM
Thereís now a Costco not far from where Natco was. Things are on the up and up in Eagan


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

crewdawg
01-20-2020, 11:52 PM
There’s now a Costco not far from where Natco was. Things are on the up and up in Eagan.

The cult continues its expansion! It makes me laugh every time I see people asking about an areas to live and one of their first few questions is if there is a Cotsco nearby. :D

SimWorld
01-21-2020, 05:18 AM
Maybe we are buying the CAE facility in Eagan that houses all the Endeavor CRJ sims and we are going to take the flying in house? I would be glad to go back to my instructor roots when it is so close to home.

CX500T
01-21-2020, 07:57 AM
The cult continues its expansion! It makes me laugh every time I see people asking about an areas to live and one of their first few questions is if there is a Cotsco nearby. :DI prefer BJs if only because the one here has Diesel.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

Broncos
01-21-2020, 03:10 PM
I prefer BJs if only because the one here has Diesel.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

Well that just got awkward.

Av8rPHX
01-21-2020, 03:47 PM
Well that just got awkward.



Dying.




Filler.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

m3113n1a1
01-21-2020, 04:26 PM
I prefer BJs if only because the one here has Diesel.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

Nothing like a diesel truck stop BJ.

Broncos
01-21-2020, 06:24 PM
Nothing like a diesel truck stop BJ.

I thought he was talking about Vin Diesel

DWC CAP10 USAF
01-21-2020, 06:30 PM
I thought he was talking about Vin Diesel

https://media3.giphy.com/media/DsdVe5jhHWNC8/source.gif

crewdawg
01-22-2020, 05:00 AM
I prefer BJs if only because the one here has Diesel.

Hilariously awesome jokes aside, I had never heard of that store until now. Heck, I'm not even married yet (rimshot)...ok jokes are over now! :D

DARR31
01-22-2020, 07:46 AM
My guess would be SEA. Boeing moved some of their sims to MIA a few years ago and still have a few sims left and maybe some bay space. It is in Renton right by the airport. https://www.boeing.com/commercial/services/training-and-resourcing/campus-information.page#/seattle

My second guess would be bring back the 737 sim in SLC like they had years ago.

Cogf16
01-23-2020, 12:42 PM
Anyone that calls themselves Captain with out actually being able to hold Captain, should not be trusted. He can't even get his title correct with out over inflating it, why should be believe anything he says. So far he has brought nothing but high ALV's and a horrible summer operation.
Plus there's his last name.......Gumm🤯

trip
01-23-2020, 12:59 PM
The SLC FS facility is undergoing complete renovation right now, donít think thereís any empty bays though, full of CRJ/ERJ.

WickedSmaht
01-25-2020, 02:09 PM
Iíve heard thereís some internet out West...out the Californie Way.

Outstanding reference...I just got a mental image of Randy in the trailer...

SideSticker
01-27-2020, 04:25 AM
BREAKING: 1 shot at Delta employee parking lot near Atlanta airport
Maybe we should move the whole operation somewhere safer, like East LA.

Bucking Bar
01-27-2020, 05:13 AM
On their best day United and American are a ****** show. It isnít even a race. They are stuck in the chocks.

American would be better off if Parker left and their was no CEO. Lassie could do a better job. Although they are both good at digging holes.

With American, United and Delta hiring 1300 plus a year their will be no shows at all three for new hires.

The regionals will collapse in late 2020 or early 2021.

I think we are in the perfect spot. We need a contract that puts bankruptcy touches behind us and we can win together win management day after day.

We couldnít have a better negotiating committee backed by the strongest of leaders.

We should be concerned that Parker/US Air dba American digs a hole so big that we fall in. American's decision to cut ticket prices as fuel costs declined in 2015 had a huge effect on Delta's revenues (down 35% if I recall correctly). The third-order effect was Richard Anderson, Ed and Glenn reaching the decision there was "no more money,... we already spent too much,... we are taking it back if you don't ratify." In a recessionary environment (caused by American) Ed started talking about his fear of bankruptcy, again. Delta management killed "constructive engagement." In doing so they also killed the reliable business partner they had in labor.

We continue to deal with this today. By being REDICULOUS in the AeroMexico JV opener management justified the unbusinesslike behavior of the Delta MEC with their withdrawal of virtual basing and leaves. With scope violations management ceded the moral high ground, again justifying action which does not help get business done with our pilots.

So now we are on a very traditional, well-worn path. Management is positioning on the 1 yard line so that every move is appreciated by the mediator. The Delta pilots in the bleachers see the field position and get upset, but they have season's tickets, they're not getting out of their seats. Union politicians will leverage the scene, blaming management and the umpires. It will be a long, low scoring game, with overtime deciding the victor by a point.

I don't think people like me get out of our seats. But we could. The career stagnation here is still HORRENDOUS. I'd be a 777A, or a nice line holding 757A if I had taken Harry Nolan's advice and accepted my spot in the pool at another carrier the second the rumors of a NWA merger began flying. Here, I'd say the odds are 50/50 on a displacement when the senior M88 guys are forced to move in Atlanta.

Don't get me wrong. I love Delta. I truly enjoy work and serving our passengers. But the market for my skills is better than the way my Reps are being treated at the table and I know it.

forgot to bid
01-27-2020, 05:20 AM
BREAKING: 1 shot at Delta employee parking lot near Atlanta airport
Maybe we should move the whole operation somewhere safer, like East LA.

East st louis might be safer and halfway in between.

Or let's just move it to vegas. every base flies to vegas.

Bucking Bar
01-27-2020, 05:27 AM
Maybe we are buying the CAE facility in Eagan that houses all the Endeavor CRJ sims and we are going to take the flying in house? I would be glad to go back to my instructor roots when it is so close to home.

Wrong airplane, wrong sims, but you are on to something.

The company many have moved on from the E190. But, yes, there was some interest in consolidating around that type some years ago.

Spirit's folks have some amazing pictures and back of the napkin numbers on the GTF on the 321. In my experience, Pratt has always built junk motors (just threw out all my JT8D stuff and it took a couple of weeks for the trash folks to haul it all away). Everyone wants that GTF to work, but the photos I've seen indicate that engine is worse than the old TPE331. I'm not sure how Pratt is even remaining in business with the money they are shoveling back to customers for warranty, AOG spares, etc .... Delta's smart. I have no idea, but I'd think Delta is fully aware of the fact these engines are not fixed.

Bunch of 737's? Who knows? Nobody wants AirBus to have a monopoly. The AirBus is certainly the customer pleaser, but not if it is getting an engine change at an outstation every couple of months.

grasshopper
01-27-2020, 06:29 AM
Since training is expensive and not quite as shiny, I think the higher ups have resisted investment unless backed against the wall in some fashion. I really think they thought we would have a demand reduction by now and could absorb it...just hasnít happened. There are other ways to reduce the footprint and I think we are about to start seeing them:) MD88 sims were rehosted mainly because no one knew how to do the punch cards to fix it anymore...and the extended envelope training demanded it going forward...not to mention horrible reliability.

TransWorld
01-27-2020, 05:50 PM
East st louis might be safer and halfway in between.

I was taught, decades ago when I lived in St. Louis, never to stop at a stop light in East St. Louis. If you do, all four hubcaps will be stolen before the light turned green. Those guys should have been hired for NASCAR pit crews.