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View Full Version : Alaska joining Oneworld


jamesholzhauer
02-13-2020, 06:46 AM
What are the Alaska pilotsí thoughts on this news?


Cruz5350
02-13-2020, 08:12 AM
What are the Alaska pilotsí thoughts on this news?

Scope scope scope, what else is there to say? Basically we will be the regional feeders to AA even more now.

SparrowBird
02-13-2020, 08:40 AM
One world? I think you mean third world.


tolowgear
02-13-2020, 09:53 AM
I don't really see it as good thing. To me it spells out that they have just secured a feed contract for AA. Our growth will be marginal and really only in seat capacity and RJs. We will become the west coast feed and that is secure enough for our management. Back to being the PNW regional and all comfy and secure from the big bad airline world. Just shows that without scope that legacy AS pilots seemed not to want all these years. You get screwed.

AAL24
02-13-2020, 09:58 AM
I imagine more of the narrow body flying will be shifted to Alaska. Or were you talking about the Bangalore and LHR flights? AA has almost no north/south flying to Seattle.

El Peso
02-13-2020, 10:07 AM
I imagine more of the narrow body flying will be shifted to Alaska. Or were you talking about the Bangalore and LHR flights? AA has almost no north/south flying to Seattle.

I donít see anyoneís domestic flying being shifted to one another, but rather growth for both. This creates connections for AA passengers in SEA, and connection for Alaska passengers in places like CLT PHL ORD and largely MIA. I see Alaska adding flights to MIA to connect into our large SA/Caribbean network.

AAL24
02-13-2020, 10:10 AM
Yeah I agree. Cautiously optimistic that itís a win win.

Five Ohh
02-13-2020, 10:51 AM
I donít see anyoneís domestic flying being shifted to one another, but rather growth for both. This creates connections for AA passengers in SEA, and connection for Alaska passengers in places like CLT PHL ORD and largely MIA. I see Alaska adding flights to MIA to connect into our large SA/Caribbean network.
Would that mean Alaska doing a split between MIA/FLL or pull out off FLL altogether and shift to MIA?

Packrat
02-13-2020, 10:52 AM
"But will I get credit for Alaska mileage on my AA account like I used to?" This is all that's important to most passengers.

SIUav8er
02-13-2020, 11:44 AM
Wasnt it just a few years ago Delta wanted Alaska to join the Skyteam alliance? Alaska did not want to join that, but now they want to be in One World?

Packrat
02-13-2020, 01:19 PM
Wasnt it just a few years ago Delta wanted Alaska to join the Skyteam alliance? Alaska did not want to join that, but now they want to be in One World?

That's an easy one. Delta has a hub in SEA now. American, only a few flights. The Anglers look at a OneWorld alliance as bringing passengers into the system. Dellta went for organic West Coast growth.

9mikemike
02-13-2020, 02:11 PM
Did MIA for years. Full flights. When we pulled out we were told MIA was ďjust to expensiveĒ to fly to. Landing Fees
Terminal Fees Jetway rent. I think they are just hoping to get the business travelers that have been lost to Delta to come back
We have been nearly here before with American...Seems more like an admission that Delta is having a significant impact in the PNW.
Not a growth move but a defensive move.

BangDingOw
02-13-2020, 02:17 PM
ouch, owned

flysnoopy76
02-13-2020, 02:39 PM
Maybe Alaska pilots will get to flow to AA since we are now their PNW regional. :p

airb320
02-13-2020, 03:28 PM
Maybe Alaska pilots will get to flow to AA since we are now their PNW regional. :p

One can only hope...

Air Guitar
02-13-2020, 04:25 PM
With the recent court approval of the tmobile/sprint merger, it also opens the door for a major airline to follow suite. Do you think AS joining One World could be the first step for a possible implication of a future merger or acquisition?

VanDriver208
02-13-2020, 05:47 PM
With the recent court approval of the tmobile/sprint merger, it also opens the door for a major airline to follow suite. Do you think AS joining One World could be the first step for a possible implication of a future merger or acquisition?

I was thinking this as well...maybe AA is testing the waters and wanting to compete with Delta in the PNW?

snackysmores
02-13-2020, 05:57 PM
Now AAG will be interchangeable. Simplicity.

Flyby1206
02-13-2020, 06:05 PM
Good analysis:

https://crankyflier.com/2020/02/13/the-force-awakens-american-renews-ties-with-alaska-as-they-make-a-joint-move-on-seattle/

9mikemike
02-13-2020, 06:40 PM
Hopefully American has strong code share and scope language. The kind that would require
the removal of the non-compliant E-175ís from Horizon Airís fleet.

Cruz5350
02-13-2020, 07:16 PM
Hopefully American has strong code share and scope language. The kind that would require
the removal of the non-compliant E-175ís from Horizon Airís fleet.

IIRC they had at one point 80 seat 900ís being operated by Mesa.

jamesholzhauer
02-13-2020, 07:19 PM
IIRC they had at one point 80 seat 900ís being operated by Mesa.
I think they still have some 79 seaters...

MinRest
02-13-2020, 07:44 PM
Hopefully American has strong code share and scope language. The kind that would require
the removal of the non-compliant E-175ís from Horizon Airís fleet.

I haven't seen it recently so maybe it has changed since the last contract or via MOU, but American's contract in clear language, has an Alaska Airlines carveout with zero restrictions.

Varsity
02-14-2020, 04:19 AM
Now AAG will be interchangeable. Simplicity.

The Awful Airline Group.

NewGuy01
02-14-2020, 04:31 AM
At least the line check airmen will stop telling me we are getting 787s when they are doing a line check.


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THE SHAFT
02-14-2020, 05:32 AM
Iím guessing we swap our 30 A320NEO order for some of Americanís MAX order and then sprinkle in some 319ceoís and owned A320ís in a sweetheart deal for American.

Increased MAX delivery scheduled and expedited airbus draw down to the furthest extent the training dept can handle. Hiring will downshift to 1st gear, to accommodate this efficiency campaign. The C level will tout this necessary to get margins on the top end of their desired number, then lie to us again and again saying ďgrowthĒ is right around the corner.

black cat
02-14-2020, 07:52 AM
IIRC they had at one point 80 seat 900ís being operated by Mesa.

AA scope limits RJs to 76 seats. I believe we may still have some 80 seaters flying around that were grandfathered in with US Air.

Mea25000
02-14-2020, 09:13 AM
At least the line check airmen will stop telling me we are getting 787s when they are doing a line check.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the opposite. I would have put 787 at AS by 2028 at about 20% before this announcement, now I would say itís a coin flip.

Mea25000
02-14-2020, 09:16 AM
Iím guessing we swap our 30 A320NEO order for some of Americanís MAX order and then sprinkle in some 319ceoís and owned A320ís in a sweetheart deal for American.

Increased MAX delivery scheduled and expedited airbus draw down to the furthest extent the training dept can handle. Hiring will downshift to 1st gear, to accommodate this efficiency campaign. The C level will tout this necessary to get margins on the top end of their desired number, then lie to us again and again saying ďgrowthĒ is right around the corner.

Much of this is very much the plan over the next few years. There is also the possibility of a significant increase in flying for us out of PHX... we shall see

We will train as much as the department can handle, it remains to be seen if that will significantly decrease growth. The economy will have the greatest affect on that.

rickair7777
02-14-2020, 09:31 AM
Iím guessing we swap our 30 A320NEO order for some of Americanís MAX order and then sprinkle in some 319ceoís and owned A320ís in a sweetheart deal for American.


That would be a sweetheart deal... 320 NEO positions (convertible to 321, XL) are gold. Max positions? Just go to the factory and pick out as many as you like.

Ala5ka
02-14-2020, 09:35 AM
This is really bad. This basically makes Alaska another regional for American and if I had to guess will likely halt any growth that B and B promised in the smoke and mirrors. likely that MEAs bronze plan just turned into the recycled aluminum plan.

THE SHAFT
02-14-2020, 09:49 AM
Much of this is very much the plan over the next few years. There is also the possibility of a significant increase in flying for us out of PHX... we shall see

We will train as much as the department can handle, it remains to be seen if that will significantly decrease growth. The economy will have the greatest affect on that.

Agreed, but I think any business based on commerce would contract or stay status quo during a downturn. So when you keep mentioning that I think thatís a pretty obvious statement. It would be nice if management thought outside of the cube a bit and had some cash to invest in a downturn (gates, slots, assets etc) foreseeing light at the end of the tunnel a bit.

I donít foresee Alaska colors EVER hoping from continent to continent itís just not marketable, so I do think that in the mean time this is a good move for AS pilots to continue to have a large market share of west coast flying. MAX 10ís will be flying between all the major cities with long enough runways feeding both AS and AA connections, and we will continue to fill a niche. Iím one of the few that actually thinks AS is doing an OK job with the product. Is it DAL, nope never will be, but is it competitive on the west coast? I think so. We ALL were hired by a narrow body operator, expecting anything more would be a foolís errand. Fortunately every airline is hiring right now so if anything itís a blessing that there are so many opportunities out there for pilots.

I didnít really think about PHX I think thatís a good opportunity as well. Although I donít always like what you say, I do appreciate you posting your insight.

Ala5ka
02-14-2020, 09:53 AM
What?!?!?!?! Alaska will never be anything but a narrowbody regionally limited operator. There is a zero percent chance Alaska could ever fill a 787 not to mention compete with real airlines on the same routes with a superior product with names that arenít of a stupid state that no one ever goes to. Wake upI think the opposite. I would have put 787 at AS by 2028 at about 20% before this announcement, now I would say itís a coin flip.

THE SHAFT
02-14-2020, 09:55 AM
That would be a sweetheart deal... 320 NEO positions (convertible to 321, XL) are gold. Max positions? Just go to the factory and pick out as many as you like.

Or maybe they just swap slots and AS just kicks those A321NEOs down the road further? I dunno just kind of brainstorming Iím just line swine what do I know!

KnockKnock
02-14-2020, 10:13 AM
What?!?!?!?! Alaska will never be anything but a narrowbody regionally limited operator. There is a zero percent chance Alaska could ever fill a 787 not to mention compete with real airlines on the same routes with a superior product with names that arenít of a stupid state that no one ever goes to. Wake up
You need to let go of your anger. You’ve moved on and are happy now right? Embrace that. Namaste �

Mea25000
02-14-2020, 01:59 PM
What?!?!?!?! Alaska will never be anything but a narrowbody regionally limited operator. There is a zero percent chance Alaska could ever fill a 787 not to mention compete with real airlines on the same routes with a superior product with names that arenít of a stupid state that no one ever goes to. Wake up

Right now from where I sit, I see 308 737 at AS by the end of 2025 and 787ís June 2028... 😱this is not a joke. Think about how many times I have been wrong, so laugh, laugh really hard.... Just check back. You ever wonder why NP is here? Just for a 737 order really? I wish I could stay and argue, but I am taking my wife to the Salish for dinner... happy Valentineís Day my friend!

av8or
02-14-2020, 03:11 PM
Right now from where I sit, I see 308 737 at AS by the end of 2025 and 787ís June 2028... 😱this is not a joke. Think about how many times I have been wrong, so laugh, laugh really hard.... Just check back. You ever wonder why NP is here? Just for a 737 order really? I wish I could stay and argue, but I am taking my wife to the Salish for dinner... happy Valentineís Day my friend!

Honestly, all I care about at the moment is making sure we donít fly American Airlines passengers on 737ís for less than an AA 737 pilot does.

airb320
02-14-2020, 03:18 PM
This is really bad. This basically makes Alaska another regional for American and if I had to guess will likely halt any growth that B and B promised in the smoke and mirrors. likely that MEAs bronze plan just turned into the recycled aluminum plan.

What growth? The 200 airplanes JL just mentioned in his e-mail...100 replacement, 100 growth? Think about it, those 100 airplanes will ONLY generate about 550 CAís (give or take a few) over 10years!
If you do the math it means that we already hired our most junior CA😉

MusicPilot
02-14-2020, 03:37 PM
Yeah, AS will get the 787 (itís really called the 737 SuperMax) and will put them on daily service from SEA to PDX.

echelon
02-14-2020, 04:09 PM
Yeah, AS will get the 787 (itís really called the 737 SuperMax) and will put them on daily service from SEA to PDX.

Right after they remove it from the ETOPS program.

Cruz5350
02-14-2020, 04:30 PM
In a world of massive Airbus NEO orders, the only logical conclusion for ASí under-utilization is cost.

They cant afford to maintain them. If theres no money to train pilots and certify planes, how tight of a money squeeze does the company have? Further, how badly is the team relying on the MAX solution?

Alaska doesnt need to place an order for RJs, they have plenty of them-the Airbii.

Focus on getting off probation before you start diving into how this place operates.

rballan
02-14-2020, 04:31 PM
Right now from where I sit, I see 308 737 at AS by the end of 2025 and 787ís June 2028... 😱this is not a joke. Think about how many times I have been wrong, so laugh, laugh really hard.... Just check back. You ever wonder why NP is here? Just for a 737 order really? I wish I could stay and argue, but I am taking my wife to the Salish for dinner... happy Valentineís Day my friend!
Brilliant. 300+ 1960s technology aircraft in 2025. Crushing it.

Cheers - Rob.

Cruz5350
02-14-2020, 04:32 PM
What growth? The 200 airplanes JL just mentioned in his e-mail...100 replacement, 100 growth? Think about it, those 100 airplanes will ONLY generate about 550 CAís (give or take a few) over 10years!
If you do the math it means that we already hired our most junior CA😉

The five year that now became the ten year plan lol.

WutFace
02-14-2020, 04:35 PM
Right now from where I sit, I see 308 737 at AS by the end of 2025 and 787ís June 2028... 😱this is not a joke. Think about how many times I have been wrong, so laugh, laugh really hard.... Just check back. You ever wonder why NP is here? Just for a 737 order really? I wish I could stay and argue, but I am taking my wife to the Salish for dinner... happy Valentineís Day my friend!

You've been repeatedly wrong. Your timeline has slid so long you could have stolen 2nd base by now.
Don't try to convince everyone you're the Moses of APC leading the poor lost AS pilots to the promised land. Give us a break.

OTZeagle1
02-14-2020, 04:48 PM
What growth? The 200 airplanes JL just mentioned in his e-mail...100 replacement, 100 growth? Think about it, those 100 airplanes will ONLY generate about 550 CAís (give or take a few) over 10years!
If you do the math it means that we already hired our most junior CA😉

Probably more like 1,200 Captains for 100 aircraft if you include the retirements over the next 10 years but I do understand your angst.

OTZeagle1
02-14-2020, 04:54 PM
You've been repeatedly wrong. Your timeline has slid so long you could have stolen 2nd base by now.
Don't try to convince everyone you're the Moses of APC leading the poor lost AS pilots to the promised land. Give us a break.


Throwing down on M... If anyone has the lowdown on APC, it is him. Honest to God Bible truth Moses, or in this case wutface

Outdoors
02-14-2020, 06:32 PM
But where will we find a hard stand area large enough for a 787?!

only full flight would be to that gig Harbor airport letís be realistic

why wouldnít they just start a alter ego and staff the widebody sans arctic eagle fleet commanders

i thought 797s in 2025 why ancient 787s.

anyways max schedule cancellations into August canít wait for even more training to bid, hey push that recall light will ya?!

snackysmores
02-14-2020, 06:33 PM
Yeah Iíll be a braindead lemming with a personality disorder for the next 35 years of my life. Spoken like a true regional pilot thats lucky to be playing the narrow body game because of a preferred hiring agreement.

OO doesn't have a preferential hiring agreement.

Cruz5350
02-14-2020, 07:54 PM
OO doesn't have a preferential hiring agreement.

He hasnít the slightest knowledge about me but I promise I know all about him and his past.

Cruz5350
02-14-2020, 07:55 PM
Yeah Iíll be a braindead lemming with a personality disorder for the next 35 years of my life. Spoken like a true regional pilot thats lucky to be playing the narrow body game because of a preferred hiring agreement.

Like I said focus on making it past probation and then we can discuss things at Alaska.

MinRest
02-14-2020, 08:26 PM
Yeah Iíll be a braindead lemming with a personality disorder for the next 35 years of my life. Spoken like a true regional pilot thats lucky to be playing the narrow body game because of a preferred hiring agreement.

Careful...

MinRest
02-15-2020, 04:31 AM
Uh Oh, I really done myself in this time!

Guess I can always go back to playing in the sand if I lose my job for disturbing the fragility :eek: Dont worry Im on my way out!

Iíll give you a bit of advice. Close your mouth. You are already being heavily watched, and many know who you are and the history you had with your previous employer. Is this the path you want to go down?

NewGuy01
02-15-2020, 05:24 AM
Ohhhhh! Story time!


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av8or
02-15-2020, 06:59 AM
Weíve got around 3000 pilots. This news comes out and thereís 56 posts on the issue so far.

AA has what, around 15k pilots? How many posts about it in the AA forum?.... 2

Fleet plan, 787ís, mergers, buyouts... yada, yada, yada....

FOCUS..... Pay, workrules, scope. Now that weíre gonna be feeding AA flights on narrow body aircraft that AA flies, I suggest our negotiating committeeís STARTING point... the absolute MINIMUM be at AA narrow body rates.... not just hourly.... the total package... and go from there. And let management know that if AA inks a deal better than their current one before we get done with ours, thatíll move the goal posts.

And when/if either group pickets, we show strong support for one another. Airline management ainít the only ones that can form alliances.

Moose
02-15-2020, 07:42 AM
He is correct at 550ish. You have to add in retirements.

Probably more like 1,200 Captains for 100 aircraft if you include the retirements over the next 10 years but I do understand your angst.

KnockKnock
02-15-2020, 07:58 AM
Weíve got around 3000 pilots. This news comes out and thereís 56 posts on the issue so far.

AA has what, around 15k pilots? How many posts about it in the AA forum?.... 2

Fleet plan, 787ís, mergers, buyouts... yada, yada, yada....

FOCUS..... Pay, workrules, scope. Now that weíre gonna be feeding AA flights on narrow body aircraft that AA flies, I suggest our negotiating committeeís STARTING point... the absolute MINIMUM be at AA narrow body rates.... not just hourly.... the total package... and go from there. And let management know that if AA inks a deal better than their current one before we get done with ours, thatíll move the goal posts.

And when/if either group pickets, we show strong support for one another. Airline management ainít the only ones that can form alliances.
Nailed it! I’m not sure how this will effect us but it does give us an extra inch on leverage handle. We need to do as you say and tie ourselves into AA’s gains on their narrow body fleet. Get ourselves a snap up clause like UAL had.

Outdoors
02-15-2020, 11:45 AM
Nailed it! Iím not sure how this will effect us but it does give us an extra inch on leverage handle. We need to do as you say and tie ourselves into AAís gains on their narrow body fleet. Get ourselves a snap up clause like UAL had.

Exactly this.

NewGuy01
02-15-2020, 11:45 AM
Weíve got around 3000 pilots. This news comes out and thereís 56 posts on the issue so far.



AA has what, around 15k pilots? How many posts about it in the AA forum?.... 2



Fleet plan, 787ís, mergers, buyouts... yada, yada, yada....



FOCUS..... Pay, workrules, scope. Now that weíre gonna be feeding AA flights on narrow body aircraft that AA flies, I suggest our negotiating committeeís STARTING point... the absolute MINIMUM be at AA narrow body rates.... not just hourly.... the total package... and go from there. And let management know that if AA inks a deal better than their current one before we get done with ours, thatíll move the goal posts.



And when/if either group pickets, we show strong support for one another. Airline management ainít the only ones that can form alliances.



Post of the year


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ShyGuy
02-15-2020, 12:13 PM
Weíve got around 3000 pilots. This news comes out and thereís 56 posts on the issue so far.

AA has what, around 15k pilots? How many posts about it in the AA forum?.... 2

Fleet plan, 787ís, mergers, buyouts... yada, yada, yada....

FOCUS..... Pay, workrules, scope. Now that weíre gonna be feeding AA flights on narrow body aircraft that AA flies, I suggest our negotiating committeeís STARTING point... the absolute MINIMUM be at AA narrow body rates.... not just hourly.... the total package... and go from there. And let management know that if AA inks a deal better than their current one before we get done with ours, thatíll move the goal posts.

And when/if either group pickets, we show strong support for one another. Airline management ainít the only ones that can form alliances.


AA work rules? No thank you

av8or
02-15-2020, 12:29 PM
AA work rules? No thank you

just to clarify.... I didnít mean THEIR workrules.... I meant the total $$$ package (they do make considerably more than us per days worked) PLUS proper workrules and scope

OTZeagle1
02-15-2020, 12:58 PM
just to clarify.... I didnít mean THEIR workrules.... I meant the total $$$ package (they do make considerably more than us per days worked) PLUS proper workrules and scope


uhm I hate to break it to you but AMR is making only $12 more an hour for a 12 year captain, with no profit sharing, more expensive medical, and .5 percent better 401k.... careful what you wish for, I am confident we are already making more.

I think your confused, people want to go to AMR for their W/B, not lackluster N/B rates.

I want AMRís retirements and widebodies, thatís it. They by far have the worst contract of any of the big 4.

Saabs
02-15-2020, 01:32 PM
uhm I hate to break it to you but AMR is making only $12 more an hour for a 12 year captain, with no profit sharing, more expensive medical, and .5 percent better 401k.... careful what you wish for, I am confident we are already making more.

I think your confused, people want to go to AMR for their W/B, not lackluster N/B rates.

I want AMRís retirements and widebodies, thatís it. They by far have the worst contract of any of the big 4.
we have profit sharing, but not as good as others. Managements initial contract opener had the same formula as deltas so better profit sharing is on the way.

many QOL work rules need to be addressed. Along with better LTD and a few other things. Iím sure some will be fixed and some will remain the same once we get a contract (been in negotiations for a year now).

FWIW on the APA forums most guys are negative (like all pilots) and assume that this will somehow reduce our narrowbody flights into Seattle. Hopefully itís a win win for both sides.

OTZeagle1
02-15-2020, 01:59 PM
AMR profit sharing for 2019 was 1.4%

I am sure you will get many improvements in the coming contract. I just donít want your current one, you must understand that.

I hope this works out for everyone too, not just management.

Saabs
02-15-2020, 02:33 PM
AMR profit sharing for 2019 was 1.4%

I am sure you will get many improvements in the coming contract. I just donít want your current one, you must understand that.

I hope this works out for everyone too, not just management.
trust me I understand more than you know, I miss the airways work rules.

I donít know much about Alaska at all, but it seems the common thing is people debate the scope clause a bunch it seems.

flysnoopy76
02-15-2020, 03:07 PM
trust me I understand more than you know, I miss the airways work rules.

I donít know much about Alaska at all, but it seems the common thing is people debate the scope clause a bunch it seems.

What scope clause?

KnockKnock
02-15-2020, 03:24 PM
we have profit sharing, but not as good as others. Managements initial contract opener had the same formula as deltas so better profit sharing is on the way.

many QOL work rules need to be addressed. Along with better LTD and a few other things. Iím sure some will be fixed and some will remain the same once we get a contract (been in negotiations for a year now).

FWIW on the APA forums most guys are negative (like all pilots) and assume that this will somehow reduce our narrowbody flights into Seattle. Hopefully itís a win win for both sides.
I wonder if this is why the D gates in SEA have been fluctuating back and forth between AS and AA? We had the whole thing for a long while. Then AA expanded gates leaving us D1-D4 out of 11. Now we’re back up to at least D8. Hope this is good for both groups.

mainlineAF
02-15-2020, 03:59 PM
AA work rules? No thank you



The AA work rule problems are reassignments. Other than that theyíre pretty much industry standard.

I work 6 days this month for 77 hours and 9 days next month for 79 because of some of work rules (IMAX).

ShyGuy
02-15-2020, 04:19 PM
The AA work rule problems are reassignments. Other than that theyíre pretty much industry standard.

I work 6 days this month for 77 hours and 9 days next month for 79 because of some of work rules (IMAX).

Can you explain? IMAX?

OTZeagle1
02-15-2020, 04:41 PM
I got a lot of friends at AMR... they all got 18-15 days a month off. The 18 are w/b FOís out of DFW and LAX.

I made 31k in profit sharing last year... let me guess, you made 60k with your 1.4% right?

shy let me explain imax... for him it means he drinks XX, so he never has to work, makes the most money, is the best looking... donít you just wish you were him

El Peso
02-15-2020, 08:40 PM
uhm I hate to break it to you but AMR is making only $12 more an hour for a 12 year captain, with no profit sharing, more expensive medical, and .5 percent better 401k.... careful what you wish for, I am confident we are already making more.

I think your confused, people want to go to AMR for their W/B, not lackluster N/B rates.

I want AMRís retirements and widebodies, thatís it. They by far have the worst contract of any of the big 4.

Honest question, what in Alaska contract do you think has you making more than a 737/320 AA pilot? Looking at the contract comparison, itís not even close. Your only nugget I see is 150% for reassignments. The pay rate disparity isnít just at 12 year CA, itís the whole scale except year 1&2 FO. Then it diverges quickly.

Maybe I have bad info so please correct. Alaska has a 5 hr average duty period? Thatís not good. We had that (5:10). It sucked. AA went to 5:15 ACD. You guys get 150% for premium? Same at AA. Trip rigs and sit rigs I think are about the same. So does it boil down to profit sharing? Honestly curious. We are in negotiations after all and any little contractual jewel you can share could be helpful.

THE SHAFT
02-15-2020, 10:50 PM
Honest question, what in Alaska contract do you think has you making more than a 737/320 AA pilot? Looking at the contract comparison, itís not even close. Your only nugget I see is 150% for reassignments. The pay rate disparity isnít just at 12 year CA, itís the whole scale except year 1&2 FO. Then it diverges quickly.

Maybe I have bad info so please correct. Alaska has a 5 hr average duty period? Thatís not good. We had that (5:10). It sucked. AA went to 5:15 ACD. You guys get 150% for premium? Same at AA. Trip rigs and sit rigs I think are about the same. So does it boil down to profit sharing? Honestly curious. We are in negotiations after all and any little contractual jewel you can share could be helpful.

I apologize for the old guard they have been obsessed with the ďpay rateĒ since they were hired, hand shake deals, pulling up the ladder and an overall dysfunctional understanding of work rules.

mainlineAF
02-16-2020, 03:14 AM
I got a lot of friends at AMR... they all got 18-15 days a month off. The 18 are w/b FOís out of DFW and LAX.



I made 31k in profit sharing last year... let me guess, you made 60k with your 1.4% right?



shy let me explain imax... for him it means he drinks XX, so he never has to work, makes the most money, is the best looking... donít you just wish you were him



Wtf are you talking about? Work rule wise our big problem is reassignments. It used to be reassignments and lack of average calendar day, but that got fixed.

Profit sharing and STD/LTD are the two other big holes in our contract. The company opener offered delta PS so hopefully we can get disability fixed.

To your last point about imax i have no clue what youíre babbling about. Maybe switch to decaf.

mainlineAF
02-16-2020, 03:18 AM
Duplicate

Filler

mainlineAF
02-16-2020, 03:25 AM
Can you explain? IMAX?



Itís a super confusing formula used to limit you to a rolling credit of 90. Each month it looks back of your last 8 months credit then uses 82 (i think itís 82) as the credit for the 9th month and adds them together then takes an average. Whatever that number comes out to be is your ďimaxĒ.

Basically you can credit a lot for 8 months then the 9th month youíre ďimaxedĒ and only have to fly what your limit is. You then get paid the minimum line construction value while only having to work up to your imax. So you could work zero days and still get full pay. If you drove your imax low enough you would only have to fly a portion of the following month as well.

I probably explained that really bad but itís a good deal if you can get it to work for you. Lots of guys donít mess with it.

Saabs
02-16-2020, 07:48 AM
I got a lot of friends at AMR... they all got 18-15 days a month off. The 18 are w/b FOís out of DFW and LAX.

I made 31k in profit sharing last year... let me guess, you made 60k with your 1.4% right?

shy let me explain imax... for him it means he drinks XX, so he never has to work, makes the most money, is the best looking... donít you just wish you were him
where did he say that?

troll :cool:

MinRest
02-16-2020, 08:18 AM
Honest question, what in Alaska contract do you think has you making more than a 737/320 AA pilot? Looking at the contract comparison, itís not even close. Your only nugget I see is 150% for reassignments. The pay rate disparity isnít just at 12 year CA, itís the whole scale except year 1&2 FO. Then it diverges quickly.

Maybe I have bad info so please correct. Alaska has a 5 hr average duty period? Thatís not good. We had that (5:10). It sucked. AA went to 5:15 ACD. You guys get 150% for premium? Same at AA. Trip rigs and sit rigs I think are about the same. So does it boil down to profit sharing? Honestly curious. We are in negotiations after all and any little contractual jewel you can share could be helpful.

OG Alaska pilots are the most secluded pilot group from the industry as a whole. They have internet, they must have friends at other airlines, yet they seem to think the POS CBA they are working under is not only industry standard, it is industry LEADING.

I think a large percentage of the pilot group is beyond ready for change though.

cactusmike
02-16-2020, 10:39 AM
So far with this announcement AA management has changed the SEA LAX schedule from all RJs to the current 1 A319 and 3RJs to 4 mainline jets and 1 RJ. So thatís a plus. As a soon to be SEA to LAX commuter Iím pretty happy. Throw in LAX crews flying the 777 flight to LHR and Iím set for the duration.

This will be good for both pilot groups. If the AA international flights do well then more flights will be added to compete with Delta. And thatís the name of the game.

Carlsbad
02-16-2020, 12:14 PM
I think it will be a good thing for both airlines and both pilot groups. There are some things in our contact that are better than Alaskaís and vice versa. Overall our narrow body compensation is pretty similar, so itís not like one group is undercutting the other. All the guys I know over there think they need big improvements in their contract, just like we need big improvements in ours.

rickair7777
02-16-2020, 01:14 PM
I think it will be a good thing for both airlines and both pilot groups. There are some things in our contact that are better than Alaskaís and vice versa. Overall our narrow body compensation is pretty similar, so itís not like one group is undercutting the other. All the guys I know over there think they need big improvements in their contract, just like we need big improvements in ours.

The respective contracts are mostly irrelevant (scope aside) in a codeshare, you won't be cherry-picking each other's contracts unless there's an actual merger.

Carlsbad
02-16-2020, 01:54 PM
The respective contracts are mostly irrelevant (scope aside) in a codeshare, you won't be cherry-picking each other's contracts unless there's an actual merger.

Yes, I know that. I was making reference to the posting back and forth about whoís contract is better and who sucks, etc etc.

OTZeagle1
02-16-2020, 05:18 PM
Honest question, what in Alaska contract do you think has you making more than a 737/320 AA pilot? Looking at the contract comparison, itís not even close. Your only nugget I see is 150% for reassignments. The pay rate disparity isnít just at 12 year CA, itís the whole scale except year 1&2 FO. Then it diverges quickly.

Maybe I have bad info so please correct. Alaska has a 5 hr average duty period? Thatís not good. We had that (5:10). It sucked. AA went to 5:15 ACD. You guys get 150% for premium? Same at AA. Trip rigs and sit rigs I think are about the same. So does it boil down to profit sharing? Honestly curious. We are in negotiations after all and any little contractual jewel you can share could be helpful.


2019 income including profit sharing... no 401k

AS12CA $418,000
AS12CA $473,000
AS12CA $390,000
AS12CA $361,000
AS12CA $323,000
AS12CA $329,000
AS12CA $368,000

AA12CA $321,000
AA12CA $327,000
AA12FO $274,000 787
AA12FO $281,000 787
AA12FO $268,000 777
AA12FO $270,000 777
AA12FO $275,000 777

All AA pilots are commuters, all AS pilots live in base. WB FOís averaged almost 4 more days off a month off.

Honestly, if I were at AMR I would focus on hourly rate. Your company is so upside down with debt, that even in the best years you will never see the same profit sharing even with DAL exact same profit sharing... your margins will always be significantly lower based on your companyís debt burden.

Carlsbad
02-16-2020, 05:39 PM
2019 income including profit sharing... no 401k

AS12CA $418,000
AS12CA $473,000
AS12CA $390,000
AS12CA $361,000
AS12CA $323,000
AS12CA $329,000
AS12CA $368,000

AA12CA $321,000
AA12CA $327,000
AA12FO $274,000 787
AA12FO $281,000 787
AA12FO $268,000 777
AA12FO $270,000 777
AA12FO $275,000 777

All AA pilots are commuters, all AS pilots live in base. WB FOís averaged almost 4 more days off a month off.

Posting false numbers really doesnít help anything in the real world. Youíre not a Delta pilot, get over it.

OTZeagle1
02-16-2020, 05:43 PM
Posting false numbers really doesnít help anything in the real world. Youíre not a Delta pilot, get over it.


Those are all real numbers, at least as honest as my friends are... I think they are all very honest. The two over 400 at AS have additional responsibility, everyone else is a regular line puke.

OTZeagle1
02-16-2020, 05:48 PM
For those that donít know, the average 12CA at AS in SEA made $313,000 last year with profit sharing. I have no idea what those numbers are at AMR. SEA was the highest number of all the AS bases.

WutFace
02-16-2020, 06:03 PM
2019 income including profit sharing... no 401k

AS12CA $418,000
AS12CA $473,000
AS12CA $390,000
AS12CA $361,000
AS12CA $323,000
AS12CA $329,000
AS12CA $368,000
.

Apparently Alaska pays in Canadian dollars. :D

Mea25000
02-16-2020, 06:10 PM
Apparently Alaska pays in Canadian dollars. :D


Hey Brown, looks like you are running with a bunch of hustlers 😉 😂. I buy the numbers, we had a couple of guys reach 500k last year.

OTZeagle1
02-16-2020, 06:44 PM
I am pretty sure my peeps at AMR were on the hustle too. We will call everyone guilty as charged. They were all once cactus boys!

echelon
02-16-2020, 07:09 PM
2019 income including profit sharing... no 401k

AS12CA $418,000
AS12CA $473,000
AS12CA $390,000
AS12CA $361,000
AS12CA $323,000
AS12CA $329,000
AS12CA $368,000

AA12CA $321,000
AA12CA $327,000
AA12FO $274,000 787
AA12FO $281,000 787
AA12FO $268,000 777
AA12FO $270,000 777
AA12FO $275,000 777

You expect us to believe YOU have this many friends? :pOnly kidding.


All AA pilots are commuters, all AS pilots live in base.


Bold statement considering ~700 of the 800 pilots from VX are commuters.

Saabs
02-16-2020, 07:32 PM
You expect us to believe YOU have this many friends? :pOnly kidding.



Bold statement considering ~700 of the 800 pilots from VX are commuters.
yeah Iím in CLT and most are not commuters that I fly with.

8 yr FO was 223k for me. I donít hustle, I donít play imax game. If a storm comes through Iíll grab some premium. Yes our contract sucks but itís not the bottom of the barrel. I donít believe those numbers at all. Iím sure there are plenty at both AA and Alaska that make way more than that.

OTZeagle1
02-16-2020, 07:56 PM
You expect us to believe YOU have this many friends? :pOnly kidding.



Bold statement considering ~700 of the 800 pilots from VX are commuters.

I canít imagine commuting with this company. I am pretty sure you and I work for two different companies.

NotTellin
02-16-2020, 08:07 PM
I canít imagine commuting with this company. I am pretty sure you and I work for two different companies.
I canít imagine working for this company. It certainly wasnít by choice and I live in SEA.

WutFace
02-16-2020, 08:07 PM
I canít imagine commuting with this company. I am pretty sure you and I work for two different companies.
That number of commuters is sure to increase as they shuffle bases around. Best to be future-minded.

9mikemike
02-16-2020, 09:36 PM
coming up on 21 years. have commuted 19 of those. most flying at Alaska just pays block. I credit between 75 and 80 hrs a month.
have never cracked 300k even with PBP.(we dont have profit sharing). almost no opportunity to earn above block at Alaska. Seattle Captains brag the most. they live around pilots at the big airlines. they hoar themselves to make those numbers. they fly FAR max.
really simple why most parts of our contract is 20 yrs behind the times.

Outdoors
02-16-2020, 11:32 PM
coming up on 21 years. have commuted 19 of those. most flying at Alaska just pays block. I credit between 75 and 80 hrs a month.
have never cracked 300k even with PBP.(we dont have profit sharing). almost no opportunity to earn above block at Alaska. Seattle Captains brag the most. they live around pilots at the big airlines. they hoar themselves to make those numbers. they fly FAR max.
really simple why most parts of our contract is 20 yrs behind the times.


This exactly. FAR max no clue how anyone can do that but plenty do on both sides.., crazy

ELAC321
02-17-2020, 06:21 AM
I got more soft time at my regional. If you don't include deadheads I RARELY make a cent over block. So just multiply our pay rates by how much you fly. That's how much you'll make! No secret. Alaska doesn't build trips below the garbage 5 hr average duty period or the 3.5/1.

OTZeagle1
02-17-2020, 08:43 AM
coming up on 21 years. have commuted 19 of those. most flying at Alaska just pays block. I credit between 75 and 80 hrs a month.
have never cracked 300k even with PBP.(we dont have profit sharing). almost no opportunity to earn above block at Alaska. Seattle Captains brag the most. they live around pilots at the big airlines. they hoar themselves to make those numbers. they fly FAR max.
really simple why most parts of our contract is 20 yrs behind the times.


We have all kinds of ways to make extra money. Some drop most of their trips and pick up premium. Some fly FAR max, work vacation, time out, and pick up as many sims as they want. Some fly many extra FCF segments. Some do many extra sims and extra check rides. It doesnít affect you or your contract. They are taking advantage of the contract they have. You canít because you commute and because you canít everyone else is a ďhoarĒ, perfect. I bet you are a joy to fly with.

MinRest
02-17-2020, 08:52 AM
We have all kinds of ways to make extra money. Some drop most of their trips and pick up premium. Some fly FAR max, work vacation, time out, and pick up as many sims as they want. Some fly many extra FCF segments. Some do many extra sims and extra check rides. It doesnít affect you or your contract. They are taking advantage of the contract they have. You canít because you commute and because you canít everyone else is a ďhoarĒ, perfect. I bet you are a joy to fly with.

You sell a reality that only 3% at Alaska can see. The world is bigger than Angel Lake my friend. The soft money game at Alaska is literally below every regional in the United States. There is never enough premium to pick up and itís next to impossible to drop trips. The P2P game is exhausting and ridiculous. The amount of hours people spend to accumulate an extra 3 hours at the end of the moment blows my freaking mind.

echelon
02-17-2020, 08:52 AM
Alaska doesn't build trips below the garbage 5 hr average duty period or the 3.5/1.

Not quite accurate... Did you see the SFO trip with JFK/SEA overnights that was an 18.7hr 4 day that had ~14hrs of block? And those lines in January/February that were that pairing 4 times for a total of 75hrs of credit and 14 days off? Lol you want softtime, there it is! It's to pad the transcon pairings of all things. :confused::confused:

Yes folks, here at Alaska Airlines we are working 18.7hr 4 day trips. That's how much this company values the time we give it.

Flyboy8784
02-17-2020, 10:09 AM
Not quite accurate... Did you see the SFO trip with JFK/SEA overnights that was an 18.7hr 4 day that had ~14hrs of block? And those lines in January/February that were that pairing 4 times for a total of 75hrs of credit and 14 days off? Lol you want softtime, there it is! It's to pad the transcon pairings of all things. :confused::confused:

Yes folks, here at Alaska Airlines we are working 18.7hr 4 day trips. That's how much this company values the time we give it.

unfortunately working 2 of those next month but the trade off is living in JFK and getting 2.5 days at home on overnights.

I've had a few Rsv Capt buddies on the 73/LAX get 48 hour JFK overnights with a DH back.....of course, the minute I bid 737 captain, that'll stop. I'm pretty sure I killed a priest in a past life lol.

av8or
02-17-2020, 11:19 AM
We have all kinds of ways to make extra money. Some drop most of their trips and pick up premium. Some fly FAR max, work vacation, time out, and pick up as many sims as they want. Some fly many extra FCF segments. Some do many extra sims and extra check rides. It doesnít affect you or your contract. They are taking advantage of the contract they have. You canít because you commute and because you canít everyone else is a ďhoarĒ, perfect. I bet you are a joy to fly with.

Actual picture of an OTZeagle1 approved scope clause. ďIf ya need me Iíll be in the Presidential SuiteĒ

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/026/380/lock.jpg

NewGuy01
02-17-2020, 02:01 PM
ďSome pick up as many sims as they wantĒ

Thereís so much entitlement in that one sentence. Sims are posted at around 4am on crew access. You have to call in to crew scheduling to see if they can put one of the sessions on your schedule. Itís a huge PITA.

I donít see how a normal person can wake up at 3:30am to 4:30am and try to snag a few sim sessions. Maybe if the process was streamlined so you didnít have to call in to pick up it would be a little more palatable.

Plus itís not like there is any kind of formal education process on how to pick up sims. Itís all just something you have to figure out on your own. Iím guessing none of this will change because it favors a select group of very senior pilots at AS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OTZeagle1
02-17-2020, 02:32 PM
Sorry, I didnít realize it was such a difficult process for you. Next union meeting I will mention starting a kindergarten class to teach all the new hires how to pick up training events and premium trips.

In all fairness it is easier with 30-40 days vacation and there seems to be a lot more of both in the Captain seat. Just a guess but I would bet illnesses and sick time play the biggest role.

ELAC321
02-17-2020, 07:13 PM
We have all kinds of ways to make extra money. Some drop most of their trips and pick up premium. Some fly FAR max, work vacation, time out, and pick up as many sims as they want. Some fly many extra FCF segments. Some do many extra sims and extra check rides. It doesnít affect you or your contract. They are taking advantage of the contract they have. You canít because you commute and because you canít everyone else is a ďhoarĒ, perfect. I bet you are a joy to fly with.

Guys from other airlines are laughing at your examples of making extra money. Legacy VX "rule book" (which was garbage compared to many others) was superior in soft time to the matured Alaska contract. Granted the pay raise made up for that loss regardless of what some say.

snaksala
02-17-2020, 07:29 PM
2019 income including profit sharing... no 401k

AS12CA $418,000
AS12CA $473,000
AS12CA $390,000
AS12CA $361,000
AS12CA $323,000
AS12CA $329,000
AS12CA $368,000

AA12CA $321,000
AA12CA $327,000
AA12FO $274,000 787
AA12FO $281,000 787
AA12FO $268,000 777
AA12FO $270,000 777
AA12FO $275,000 777


Pics or it didnít happen bro

ShyGuy
02-17-2020, 08:46 PM
Not quite accurate... Did you see the SFO trip with JFK/SEA overnights that was an 18.7hr 4 day that had ~14hrs of block? And those lines in January/February that were that pairing 4 times for a total of 75hrs of credit and 14 days off? Lol you want softtime, there it is! It's to pad the transcon pairings of all things. :confused::confused:

Yes folks, here at Alaska Airlines we are working 18.7hr 4 day trips. That's how much this company values the time we give it.

4 day trip as in 4 duty periods? That should pay 20 hrs regardless of block, right?

Koalatree
02-17-2020, 10:40 PM
4 day trip as in 4 duty periods? That should pay 20 hrs regardless of block, right?

With the 2 layovers (JFK/SEA), he's talking about the 4 day pairings with long layovers that only touch 3 duty periods where the rigs kick in. You surely remember those horrible "3 day" OGG trips from SFO that went so junior where you'd fly from SFO on day 1 at 6pm, have a 23:50 layover, and do the redeye back to land at 6am on day 3 for 11 hours credit. This is the same thing..it's why ADG plus MDG, among other things is so important in where we lag

OTZeagle1
02-17-2020, 11:21 PM
Pics or it didnít happen bro

I tried... didnít work. Tell me how. Itís hard for me to believe you guys donít realize that may are making this kind of money at Alaska. You all must lie an awful lot in your own lives not to believe others. But I will prove it to you so you will shut up

echelon
02-18-2020, 02:04 AM
4 day trip as in 4 duty periods? That should pay 20 hrs regardless of block, right?
It's not 4 duty periods, genius, and that's why I mentioned a credit value, which FYI can be read right off of the pdf of the line awards or from the preview in crewaccess. It may come as a surprise to you, but you aren't the only one smart enough to understand our work rules.

snaksala
02-18-2020, 02:08 AM
Hey Brown, looks like you are running with a bunch of hustlers 😉 😂. I buy the numbers, we had a couple of guys reach 500k last year.

CP and DO donít count 🙄

9mikemike
02-18-2020, 10:58 PM
We have all kinds of ways to make extra money. Some drop most of their trips and pick up premium. Some fly FAR max, work vacation, time out, and pick up as many sims as they want. Some fly many extra FCF segments. Some do many extra sims and extra check rides. It doesnít affect you or your contract. They are taking advantage of the contract they have. You canít because you commute and because you canít everyone else is a ďhoarĒ, perfect. I bet you are a joy to fly with.
Really canít say how I am to fly with. Don't have that weird Seattleite fascination about what the stranger I am sitting next to thinks. Crystal clear on all the contractual benefits enjoyed by a couple hundred Seattle pilots. The fix for the rest of us is to move. Empty the other 4 bases. Got it. With the mAx sliding into the fall there might not be as many extra sims to go around.

Flaps1check
02-19-2020, 05:55 AM
We have all kinds of ways to make extra money. Some drop most of their trips and pick up premium. Some fly FAR max, work vacation, time out, and pick up as many sims as they want. Some fly many extra FCF segments. Some do many extra sims and extra check rides. It doesnít affect you or your contract. They are taking advantage of the contract they have. You canít because you commute and because you canít everyone else is a ďhoarĒ, perfect. I bet you are a joy to fly with.

As many others have stated your examples of making extra money are limited to Seattle.

Drop most of your trips, not happening if it drops you below 75. Also with reserve coverage constantly moving below the required amount thatís not an option for a majority of the group. Also the large amount of MOUs that limit swapping to the second Tuesday of December between 04:00-04:02

Pick up premium trips, once again limited to Seattle and then a few scattered through other bases. Not at the level of Seattle.

Some fly FAR max. Okay I get it, possible for everyone unless you have a family you enjoy spending time with.

Work vacation, this is the most practical and easiest way to make extra money. But also at the loss of some extra time off.

Pick up sims, Seattle 7373 only to my knowledge. Iím not sure if this even offered in SFO.

FCF, sims, and checks rides are limited to the 3% that are check airmen.

You have stated ways to make extra money but they are limited to Seattle based pilots. Maybe the next contract should include ways for the entire pilot group to have the same opportunities to make extra money.

KnockKnock
02-19-2020, 08:30 AM
Really canít say how I am to fly with. Don't have that weird Seattleite fascination about what the stranger I am sitting next to thinks. Crystal clear on all the contractual benefits enjoyed by a couple hundred Seattle pilots. The fix for the rest of us is to move. Empty the other 4 bases. Got it. With the mAx sliding into the fall there might not be as many extra sims to go around.
Klsytakesit.....you slap on some new lipstick and change your name??

OTZeagle1
02-19-2020, 08:48 AM
Really canít say how I am to fly with. Don't have that weird Seattleite fascination about what the stranger I am sitting next to thinks. Crystal clear on all the contractual benefits enjoyed by a couple hundred Seattle pilots. The fix for the rest of us is to move. Empty the other 4 bases. Got it. With the mAx sliding into the fall there might not be as many extra sims to go around.

How do you empty all the bases with a bid for 20 CAís, and 40 FOís.... what does that even mean? You have a brilliant mind and a incredible attitude. I canít believe you came up with this plan all on your own, you must have had help.

OTZeagle1
02-19-2020, 08:52 AM
As many others have stated your examples of making extra money are limited to Seattle.

Drop most of your trips, not happening if it drops you below 75. Also with reserve coverage constantly moving below the required amount thatís not an option for a majority of the group. Also the large amount of MOUs that limit swapping to the second Tuesday of December between 04:00-04:02

Pick up premium trips, once again limited to Seattle and then a few scattered through other bases. Not at the level of Seattle.

Some fly FAR max. Okay I get it, possible for everyone unless you have a family you enjoy spending time with.

Work vacation, this is the most practical and easiest way to make extra money. But also at the loss of some extra time off.

Pick up sims, Seattle 7373 only to my knowledge. Iím not sure if this even offered in SFO.

FCF, sims, and checks rides are limited to the 3% that are check airmen.

You have stated ways to make extra money but they are limited to Seattle based pilots. Maybe the next contract should include ways for the entire pilot group to have the same opportunities to make extra money.

To drop use P to P... maybe things really are that different in other bases.

All Bizniz
02-19-2020, 09:20 AM
To drop use P to P... maybe things really are that different in other bases.
And other airlines too...

cmrflyer
02-19-2020, 09:31 AM
How do you empty all the bases with a bid for 20 CAís, and 40 FOís.... what does that even mean? You have a brilliant mind and a incredible attitude. I canít believe you came up with this plan all on your own, you must have had help.
heís referring to the fact that your sim idea only works in one base, so if the rest of the pilots want the option to scratch a few more pennies away from the company, everyone would have to be based in Seattle. Are you really that dim?

tolowgear
02-19-2020, 12:44 PM
2019 income including profit sharing... no 401k

AS12CA $418,000
AS12CA $473,000
AS12CA $390,000
AS12CA $361,000
AS12CA $323,000
AS12CA $329,000
AS12CA $368,000

This is horse crap. This not achievable by the majority if any pilots at AS. The sad part is at the majors this achievable by the majority of pilots on the list. Friends of mine at B6 can bring in $40k a month and still get plenty of time off a month and my friends at spirit have work rules that allow them to earn a lot more on the W2 than any of us will see at AS. I know an FO at DL who on 2nd year pay earned more then a 11 year Capt at AS 101 hrs of credit at AS. They had 160 hours of credit. So time to wake up AS pilots and realize that your CBA is crap and the line bidding system is so badly broken its a joke. The work rules along with line bidding don't work and the crappy fatigue ( non contractual / unwritten ) rules forced on us. Really make for a crappy schedule and QOL for the majority of us. And if one of you says single day vacation trading will just prove my point.

Mea25000
02-19-2020, 01:57 PM
2019 income including profit sharing... no 401k

AS12CA $418,000
AS12CA $473,000
AS12CA $390,000
AS12CA $361,000
AS12CA $323,000
AS12CA $329,000
AS12CA $368,000

This is horse crap. This not achievable by the majority if any pilots at AS. The sad part is at the majors this achievable by the majority of pilots on the list. Friends of mine at B6 can bring in $40k a month and still get plenty of time off a month and my friends at spirit have work rules that allow them to earn a lot more on the W2 than any of us will see at AS. I know an FO at DL who on 2nd year pay earned more then a 11 year Capt at AS 101 hrs of credit at AS. They had 160 hours of credit. So time to wake up AS pilots and realize that your CBA is crap and the line bidding system is so badly broken its a joke. The work rules along with line bidding don't work and the crappy fatigue ( non contractual / unwritten ) rules forced on us. Really make for a crappy schedule and QOL for the majority of us. And if one of you says single day vacation trading will just prove my point.

You are wrong. More then 290 CAís in SEA were above 350k last year

ImperialxRat
02-19-2020, 02:09 PM
You are wrong. More then 290 CAís in SEA were above 350k last year

I know you're replying to that single post, but I think the over-all theme here is that that is not achievable in the other bases. Drop down below 75 via P2P and pick up premium?... Hard to do when half the lines are 15 days off or below and built to 85 hours.. other pilots simply don't have the availability or ability to pick up your trips you advertise, or simply don't want to pick up your 4 day that starts at 0500 and ends at 2330, or one of your numerous all-nighters to EWR/JFK/BWI/FLL, etc. And then to pick up premium.. some months as an FO I've seen little or no premium posted, or if it is posted its in the first 4 days of the month.

It is what it is, however I don't think anyone except a senior SEA pilot would say we are anywhere even close to being able to make the kind of money pilots at other airlines make. And even worse is that they make more money and have more days off - that is the big gripe.

full of luv
02-19-2020, 02:37 PM
You are wrong. More then 290 CAís in SEA were above 350k last year

good thing there is no income tax in WA!

NewGuy01
02-19-2020, 02:38 PM
Itís pointless to try and have a dialogue with senior captains. Doubly so when it comes to topics around pay at AS. Good on you guys for trying but we are talking about weirdos youíd never want to share any kind of space with. That sign themselves up for reserve on days off or wake up a 4am to see if they can pick up extra sims.

Itís pointless to even try. The good news is thanks to the VX group the weirdos are now outnumbered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mea25000
02-19-2020, 03:10 PM
Itís pointless to try and have a dialogue with senior captains. Doubly so when it comes to topics around pay at AS. Good on you guys for trying but we are talking about weirdos youíd never want to share any kind of space with. That sign themselves up for reserve on days off or wake up a 4am to see if they can pick up extra sims.

Itís pointless to even try. The good news is thanks to the VX group the weirdos are now outnumbered.


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Look I get it, a lot needs fixing around here. I think it will but my point was OTZbrownís numbers are attained by many on our seniority list. I donít doubt for a second that every number is real. Yes, they are working hard but they are most certainly making that scratch.

NewGuy01
02-19-2020, 03:17 PM
Look I get it, a lot needs fixing around here. I think it will but my point was OTZbrownís numbers are attained by many on our seniority list. I donít doubt for a second that every number is real. Yes, they are working hard but they are most certainly making that scratch.



No one doubts it. Youíre completely missing the point. The point is itís not available to the majority of the pilot group. Thatís what everyone keeps saying, over and over.


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Outdoors
02-19-2020, 03:39 PM
Ha ha they will never get it gotta run my FCF beeper is blowing up

9mikemike
02-19-2020, 10:28 PM
How do you empty all the bases with a bid for 20 CAís, and 40 FOís.... what does that even mean? You have a brilliant mind and a incredible attitude. I canít believe you came up with this plan all on your own, you must have had help.
Practicing sounding as irrational and dense as you brother. Wonder if all the FOD being found in the MAX fuel tanks will cause dual-engine failure. That could produce extra sims and more FCF for yíall...

cesnacaptn
02-20-2020, 09:17 PM
Also the large amount of MOUs that limit swapping to the second Tuesday of December between 04:00-04:02.

MOUs donít limit trading.

All Bizniz
02-21-2020, 04:09 AM
MOUs donít limit trading.
I read it as a joke.

Flaps1check
02-21-2020, 07:35 AM
I read it as a joke.

I thought the time frame was evidence enough of the joke.

cesnacaptn
02-21-2020, 08:41 PM
I thought the time frame was evidence enough of the joke.

Since most of the pilots (or the blowhards anyway) blame the MOUs for their trades being denied and many of them want to get rid of them, I just assumed you were one of the many pilots who donít understand them. My apologies for being dense.