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View Full Version : Well crap...


Ovenmitts
02-15-2020, 01:07 PM
Iíve been a 91 guy my entire career of 17 years. 3 weeks ago my company unexpectedly, and without warning shut down our 62 year old department. Iím out on the street and struggling with what to do with my life now. I cannot really relocate due to wifeís work. I have narrowed it down to three options.
1. Stay put and hang up the wings. Just go be a welder or electrician or something.
2. Stay put and try something like Net, Flex, DPJ (I have an interview this Thur) where I can home base but be gone every other week.
3. Force wife to move and chase the $$$ to another 91 department.
Iím moderately timed at
5200 TT
4700 MultiTurbine
3600 PIC
DA-7x, DA-2EASy, B300, RA-390s typed
Current in the 7x and B300. Current Chinese and Brazilian visas.
NA, Carib, SA, Euro, Pac, Asia experience.

Okay guys. Make me feel positive about getting ****-canned from my perfect 180hrs/year job.

....and go!


TommyDevito
02-15-2020, 01:14 PM
Iíve been a 91 guy my entire career of 17 years. 3 weeks ago my company unexpectedly, and without warning shut down our 62 year old department. Iím out on the street and struggling with what to do with my life now. I cannot really relocate due to wifeís work. I have narrowed it down to three options.
1. Stay put and hang up the wings. Just go be a welder or electrician or something.
2. Stay put and try something like Net, Flex, DPJ (I have an interview this Thur) where I can home base but be gone every other week.
3. Force wife to move and chase the $$$ to another 91 department.
Iím moderately timed at
5200 TT
4700 MultiTurbine
3600 PIC
DA-7x, DA-2EASy, B300, RA-390s typed
Current in the 7x and B300. Current Chinese and Brazilian visas.
NA, Carib, SA, Euro, Pac, Asia experience.

Okay guys. Make me feel positive about getting ****-canned from my perfect 180hrs/year job.

....and go!

Where do you live?

Ovenmitts
02-15-2020, 01:16 PM
Where do you live?


Ah yes. That would help. In the middle of the cornfields of Central Illinois.


PotatoChip
02-15-2020, 01:28 PM
UPS has taken a liking to corporate pilots.
How far of a drive is SDF?
Apply and find out if itís an option.

Ovenmitts
02-15-2020, 01:30 PM
SDF is about a 4hr drive.

PotatoChip
02-15-2020, 01:32 PM
SDF is about a 4hr drive.

For UPS itíd be worth it to me...

Ovenmitts
02-15-2020, 01:34 PM
I applied there for the open FO positions. It was just last week however. Any idea how long it can take to get a call? I am guessing months?

PotatoChip
02-15-2020, 03:02 PM
I applied there for the open FO positions. It was just last week however. Any idea how long it can take to get a call? I am guessing months?

well, I have 2000 hours in the 747, and about 8000 total time, and Iíve been applying for four years.

rickair7777
02-16-2020, 07:31 AM
I applied there for the open FO positions. It was just last week however. Any idea how long it can take to get a call? I am guessing months?

Not practical to apply to a single top-tier major and expect and results, quick or otherwise, unless you're in a narrow range of fighter pilots with specific tickets punched. To have a decent shot at majors, you need to cast a wide net and then it could easily take several years to get hired even if you fit the mold they're looking for. It's also normal, for both mil and civ, to have multiple internal LORs on file with a top-tier major. That last is pretty much assumed, so I can't even guess at the ramifications of having no internal recs. Hopefully you know some folks in the airlines?

If you get on with one of the better airlines, you could try commuting for a while and plan on ultimately moving to base... that could in some situations allow very minimal flying. And the money would most likely be better than what you're used to, even if wife has to downgrade her employment.

There is a demand in the corporate world, although the unicorn jobs are never a gimme, as you well know. If you're going to move anyway, might as well try airlines if you can get on. now's a good time and you might might like it better than most corporate gigs. You can always go back to corporate at any time. If you're going to sit tight in the home town, fractionals are an option but airlines are better in most respects if you can avoid an ugly commute. Your exact location and nearby airline service would determine that.

Ovenmitts
02-16-2020, 07:40 AM
All good advice and no, UPS is not the only place I have applied.
This event has really soured me. We are talking about a Fortune 50 company that has had a department continually operating for 62 years. And not a small department. This has really been a wakeup call and my only wish was that it happened to me years ago instead of at this stage in my life.
I have decided that I am not going to chase crap jobs for crap pay. Iíll just sit tight and go be a machinist or a welder or something. One thing is certain, Iím not turning my wife and kidís lives upside down for a piece of noisy metal.

galaxy flyer
02-17-2020, 06:55 AM
There are tons of pilot jobs out there, corporate and airlines, but not if staying in Decatur, IL is a base requirement. 7X bubbas can get all the contract work they can take at $2000-$2500 per day

PotatoChip
02-17-2020, 01:20 PM
There are tons of pilot jobs out there, corporate and airlines, but not if staying in Decatur, IL is a base requirement. 7X bubbas can get all the contract work they can take at $2000-$2500 per day

Or Bloomington, IL?
(just a guess)

Sunrig
02-17-2020, 01:40 PM
Have you tried Spirit or Frontier? Both have ORD bases. That might manageable for you to drive to work...

galaxy flyer
02-17-2020, 03:03 PM
Or Bloomington, IL?
(just a guess)

ADM, a guess. They have, or had, a 7X

PotatoChip
02-17-2020, 03:14 PM
ADM, a guess. They have, or had, a 7X

Ah, you have the better guess.
State Farm doesnít have one of those...

Ovenmitts
02-17-2020, 03:27 PM
Iím not allowed to publicly disclose per our severance contract. Or at least my attorney advised against it as it was a fine line of what could be construed as ďderogatoryĒ. That said, how many 7xís leave Central Illinois and fly around the world to return to Central Illinois.

PotatoChip
02-17-2020, 03:51 PM
Iím not allowed to publicly disclose per our severance contract. Or at least my attorney advised against it as it was a fine line of what could be construed as ďderogatoryĒ. That said, how many 7xís leave Central Illinois and fly around the world to return to Central Illinois.

Lol, which leaves us free to guess! :p

galaxy flyer
02-17-2020, 05:52 PM
NBAA Member Database and long corporate career

PotatoChip
02-21-2020, 08:04 AM
https://www.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=0317fa2436f93d6c&from=jsj_hp_jobfeed&tk=1e1kb5q74hbpn800&dupclk=0

Speaking of central Illinois jobs...
might as well reach out to your network and get an app in ASAP.

DontLookDown
02-21-2020, 08:23 AM
https://www.indeed.com/m/viewjob?jk=0317fa2436f93d6c&from=jsj_hp_jobfeed&tk=1e1kb5q74hbpn800&dupclk=0

Speaking of central Illinois jobs...
might as well reach out to your network and get an app in ASAP.

wear khakis and a red shirt to the interview and youíre a shoe in

Ovenmitts
02-21-2020, 08:47 AM
Thanks. They sent it to me first thing this morning. I applied straight away

B727DRVR
02-22-2020, 03:47 AM
Iíve been a 91 guy my entire career of 17 years. 3 weeks ago my company unexpectedly, and without warning shut down our 62 year old department. Iím out on the street and struggling with what to do with my life now. I cannot really relocate due to wifeís work. I have narrowed it down to three options.
1. Stay put and hang up the wings. Just go be a welder or electrician or something.
2. Stay put and try something like Net, Flex, DPJ (I have an interview this Thur) where I can home base but be gone every other week.
3. Force wife to move and chase the $$$ to another 91 department.
Iím moderately timed at
5200 TT
4700 MultiTurbine
3600 PIC
DA-7x, DA-2EASy, B300, RA-390s typed
Current in the 7x and B300. Current Chinese and Brazilian visas.
NA, Carib, SA, Euro, Pac, Asia experience.

Okay guys. Make me feel positive about getting ****-canned from my perfect 180hrs/year job.

....and go!

Hi Ovenmitts,

I was dismayed to hear of your sudden loss of a job, so much so that I wish you had put this in the Corporate forum.. People considering Part 91 Corporate Aviation need to know how fragile their jobs really are. Coming up in the dark, depressing 90ís, I remember running into corporate flight crews at FBOís when I was working line service and later as a CFI.

I would meet a crew with a younger, dark-haired Captain and an older, silver-haired FO. The FOís story was always the same; They had this great Part 91 Corporate job and then got a new CEO, CFO, etc., all with the same result; They got a small severance package with little to no notice and a type rating out of it. One pilot got fired because the Chief Pilotís Wife did yoga with a lady whose husband was a pilot with a type in the airplane, so they fired him and hired the other guy. Because I heard this story so many times, I came up with the expression that Corporate flying is either really good or really bad, with little in between and developed an overall bad opinion of Corporate flying.

While there were always a few great Corporate flight departments run like airlines, there were so many 2 and 3 pilot operations that really couldnít afford the airplane nor the Flight Department. You know... : The South Florida Corporate Flight Department that has two pilots and a $100,000/yr budget for payroll and the Captain pays himself $80,000 and the FO $20,000. And the Captain gets steak and lobster on the Company Amex while the FO is allowed a burger. There are so many of these operators that got a Baron, but switched to a Citation after the competing dealership got a King Air. So the competition one ups it to a Lear, and these guys get a Falcon only to realize that they canít afford it so they shut the whole department down with no notice. Sadly, this happens all the time.

This is not to say that 121, 135, or 91K are bulletproof either, but you at least have strength in numbers. I feel your pain as I have also had 5 furlough resets in my career of 135, 121, then 91K and back to 135. So, no plan is foolproof but some are definitely more fragile.

Again, so sorry to hear that this has happened to you and I assume others. As a pilot involved in helping out recruiting for my company, I canít tell you how often I hear your story but it is at least twice a month. And I often tell pilots that while they will often make 1.5 times or greater pay than Part 135 or 91K (but not 121), their job is so fragile.. Not only that, most Corporate gigs have a much less flexible schedule and basing options than 121/135; Generally, and until recently, You have to live where the plane is and you have to fly when the boss wants you to.. With luck written on ice and the Sun coming up. Pilots getting laid off because of their plane being sold or flight department shut down is so common that is certainly a stereotype and almost a meme...

Bottom Line: In this market, there is no reason for you to give up flying. There are so many jobs out there in 121 and Part 135 where you can be home based. And if you are fortunate enough to be hired by UPS or similar, I promise you that the commute will be worth it. And the absolute last thing I would do is to force your Wife to move and give up her good job to chase another Part 91 flying job that could disappear in instant. I say this because no matter where I worked, I could never earn more than my Wife does, so since my furlough in 2008 her job has become the primary by several times over. All the choices you mentioned are good ones, with NJA being at the top of that list. I would also consider XOJET, with their new, just announced pay scale paying better than DPJ and flyExclusive, where I am, that both offer home based 8/6 positions.

Best of luck to you and your family and I am sure that you will find something very soon. It might not pay what you were making at your former Corporate flight department, but I am pretty sure that you will have better job stability and almost certainly a better schedule that allows you to live wherever you want.. Not just where the Corporate jet is parked. Good Luck!

Ovenmitts
02-22-2020, 07:07 AM
What a thoughtful and meaningful post. Thank you very much for the reassuring words. I interviewed at DPJ Thursday...no word yet. I applied at XOJet, but have no contacts there in HR or otherwise to get my resume walked up. I have several non-flying govt applications under referral as well. Itís just a matter of time, unfortunately that is not a luxury I have.

Hrkdrivr
02-22-2020, 10:57 AM
Recency is important to Delta (if they interest you at all) and Iíd assume to all the majors. If you have any intention of ending up at one you will want not to wait too long before taking a flying job, any flying job, to make sure thatís not an issue on top of all the other challenges. Good luck deciding what you want and getting it!

corngrower
02-26-2020, 11:28 AM
There are a couple of 7Xs at DPA. Exelon has several and Calamos


thatís a bit of a drive but maybe look into contract work flying for one of them

Ovenmitts
02-26-2020, 02:17 PM
Thanks all. I have something in the works willing to be flexible with home basing. Had an interview today and got a really positive vibe. If they offer I will probably snatch it up.

B727DRVR
02-26-2020, 08:37 PM
Thatís great news, Oven!

Let us know what you decide.... The suspense is killing me:D!!

Good luck...

Ovenmitts
03-22-2020, 10:57 AM
An update for you all. Well I had a job for about three weeks. Worked one day doing all the HR onboarding stuff. Went in a second day for Indoc. Made hotels, cars, airlines for school. Hung out with the fam for a couple week waiting to go to school. Two days before initial started, which would have been tomorrow, I got the call that the WuFlu had forced unforeseen cuts and the bottom three guys were getting let go. Poop. Canned before I even got started. I think at this point, Iím hanging it up altogether. Iím going to move on to another career. Iím mentally exhausted at this point and just donít have the will to do it anymore.

123494
03-22-2020, 11:17 AM
An update for you all. Well I had a job for about three weeks. Worked one day doing all the HR onboarding stuff. Went in a second day for Indoc. Made hotels, cars, airlines for school. Hung out with the fam for a couple week waiting to go to school. Two days before initial started, which would have been tomorrow, I got the call that the WuFlu had forced unforeseen cuts and the bottom three guys were getting let go. Poop. Canned before I even got started. I think at this point, Iím hanging it up altogether. Iím going to move on to another career. Iím mentally exhausted at this point and just donít have the will to do it anymore.

What will your new career be?

Ovenmitts
03-22-2020, 11:23 AM
Most likely a trade. I have experience as an electrician in the past. I built my own home doing all the electrical, HVAC and plumbing myself. Iím good with tools and very mechanically inclined. I have an engineering degree and itís not really rocket science...just more like regular science. Lol. Mon-Fri kicking around my little hometown fixing furnaces and a/c units sounds pretty good right now. Well see how it all shakes out.

Firefighterpilo
03-22-2020, 11:28 AM
Most likely a trade. I have experience as an electrician in the past. I built my own home doing all the electrical, HVAC and plumbing myself. Iím good with tools and very mechanically inclined. I have an engineering degree and itís not really rocket science...just more like regular science. Lol. Mon-Fri kicking around my little hometown fixing furnaces and a/c units sounds pretty good right now. Well see how it all shakes out.

Thatís awesome you sound optimistic. I am happy you have a solid back up plan based of your passions and attributes. You are not the first nor the last to change careers out of aviation. I changed at the end of the lost decade and have found amazing stability and pay. Just when I was looking at going back though this all happened. Quickly reminded me of the reasons I left. I will just continue to fly for fun and watch from the sidelines how things shake out.

Ovenmitts
03-22-2020, 12:01 PM
Iím also an aspiring LTA guy so I figure the stability will allow me more time to get my commercial balloon rating. Iíve enjoyed flying but after 20+ years of doing it professionally, I am not sure if I have any more of this nonsense left in me. Itís just too damn unstable.

123494
03-22-2020, 04:52 PM
Most likely a trade. I have experience as an electrician in the past. I built my own home doing all the electrical, HVAC and plumbing myself. Iím good with tools and very mechanically inclined. I have an engineering degree and itís not really rocket science...just more like regular science. Lol. Mon-Fri kicking around my little hometown fixing furnaces and a/c units sounds pretty good right now. Well see how it all shakes out.

best of luck to you. Iím at a regional and am getting burned out. Also looking to find a more fulfilling career that Iíll enjoy. The flying doesnít do much for me anymore.

Ovenmitts
03-22-2020, 05:49 PM
best of luck to you. Iím at a regional and am getting burned out. Also looking to find a more fulfilling career that Iíll enjoy. The flying doesnít do much for me anymore.


Funny you mention that. Even before everything happened to me this year, I was starting to get burned out as well. When I first started my flight training I remember seeing the big bizjets roll by and thinking to myself ďman, one day, thatís gonna be me.Ē Fast forward 23 years and I found myself getting off the big bizjet after flying around the world, rotating crews, being up for 30+ hours, eating crappy international catering watching an L3 Cub roll by thinking to myself ďman, one day thatís gonna be meĒ. Iím tired of the hair trigger instability. There are other equally noble professions.

geosync
03-22-2020, 09:10 PM
Most likely a trade. I have experience as an electrician in the past. I built my own home doing all the electrical, HVAC and plumbing myself. Iím good with tools and very mechanically inclined. I have an engineering degree and itís not really rocket science...just more like regular science. Lol. Mon-Fri kicking around my little hometown fixing furnaces and a/c units sounds pretty good right now. Well see how it all shakes out.
Goes to show that having solid back up skills can save your as$. When this virus has passed you can always go back to flying, or not.

NeoPilott
03-23-2020, 04:05 AM
Funny you mention that. Even before everything happened to me this year, I was starting to get burned out as well. When I first started my flight training I remember seeing the big bizjets roll by and thinking to myself ďman, one day, thatís gonna be me.Ē Fast forward 23 years and I found myself getting off the big bizjet after flying around the world, rotating crews, being up for 30+ hours, eating crappy international catering watching an L3 Cub roll by thinking to myself ďman, one day thatís gonna be meĒ. Iím tired of the hair trigger instability. There are other equally noble professions.

I switched from a stable engineering job to fly charter and got burned out in a year. Went back to the office job and instructing part rime. Fast forward a year and I was looking at possibly joining airlines, however, this virus only shows how unstable this career may be and how disposable pilots are. I am seriously thinking of just staying in my job and instructing on the side (I truly enjoyed instructing last 7 years). I am also thinking of more advanced instructing such as in Bonanzas, Cirrus, Tailwheel etc...Ö..maybe even getting into rotorcraft and eventually becoming a helicopter instructor.