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View Full Version : Moving up thru the ranks


Swearingin
02-20-2020, 07:33 PM
I've been told that as a new hire / regional flow pilot at AA, you could possibly be an F/O on the 777 or 787, 2 to 2.5 years after joining AA.
Is this true, or just wishful dreaming?


SparrowBird
02-20-2020, 07:34 PM
I've been told that as a new hire / regional flow pilot at AA, you could possibly be an F/O on the 777 or 787, 2 to 2.5 years after joining AA.
Is this true, or just wishful dreaming?
not really but who knows. right now it sits at about six years.

Armyguy
02-21-2020, 06:35 AM
not really but who knows. right now it sits at about six years.

Iím too lazy to look up the actual timeframe but itís definitely not six years closer to about four and dropping


HiFlyer992
02-21-2020, 07:05 AM
I've been told that as a new hire / regional flow pilot at AA, you could possibly be an F/O on the 777 or 787, 2 to 2.5 years after joining AA.
Is this true, or just wishful dreaming?

​​​For now it is wishful dreaming. Junior group 4 FO is a Fall 2014 hire. Junior group 3 FO is a little over a year.

FetaCheese
02-21-2020, 09:18 AM
I've been told that as a new hire / regional flow pilot at AA, you could possibly be an F/O on the 777 or 787, 2 to 2.5 years after joining AA.
Is this true, or just wishful dreaming?

Its roughly 4 to 5 years at current numbers. Same for left seat narrow body. But the closest alligator to your canoe is worrying about how long itíll take before you donít have to commute on short call anymore. After months of spending no more than 48 hours at home at a time..you wonít care about anything else.

daOldMan
02-21-2020, 09:23 AM
Its roughly 4 to 5 years at current numbers. Same for left seat narrow body. But the closest alligator to your canoe is worrying about how long itíll take before you donít have to commute on short call anymore. After months of spending no more than 48 hours at home at a time..you wonít care about anything else.

Narrow body Captain just went well below 4 years.

Hercnhawk
02-21-2020, 09:49 AM
Junior 777 FO is a December 2014 hire. Junior 787 is October 2015. Rather than guess I actually looked it up.

Surprise
02-21-2020, 09:56 AM
Junior 777 FO is a December 2014 hire. Junior 787 is October 2015. Rather than guess I actually looked it up.

Thatís not how the internet works.

Windcheck44
02-21-2020, 10:15 AM
thatís not how the internet works.


😂



< filler >

FetaCheese
02-21-2020, 10:51 AM
Junior 777 FO is a December 2014 hire. Junior 787 is October 2015. Rather than guess I actually looked it up.

Except those are the numbers for someone hired 6 years ago. Not for someone hired today.

Saabs
02-21-2020, 10:56 AM
Its roughly 4 to 5 years at current numbers. Same for left seat narrow body. But the closest alligator to your canoe is worrying about how long itíll take before you donít have to commute on short call anymore. After months of spending no more than 48 hours at home at a time..you wonít care about anything else.
short call goes more senior for widebody

FetaCheese
02-21-2020, 11:02 AM
short call goes more senior for widebody

I have no doubt it does. Most of those guys live in base, right? SC and living in base is the ticket. SC and a commuter is about as fun as wearing Oprah's panty hose as a ski mask.

Bahamasflyer
02-21-2020, 11:07 AM
How about DOH for most junior group 4 FO lineholder? That's far more important to me at least.

On that note, what kind of schedule could a very junior group 4 line holder expect? Days off and credit

Hercnhawk
02-21-2020, 11:29 AM
Except those are the numbers for someone hired 6 years ago. Not for someone hired today.
Of course. I wasn't attempting to contradict your forecast.

Hercnhawk
02-21-2020, 11:33 AM
short call goes more senior for widebody
It's very base dependent. For example, in LAX the PHX guys/gals own the WB FO flying so long call goes senior. In DFW they tend to be local so short call goes senior.

SloanKettering
02-21-2020, 05:20 PM
Interesting...Any way to look up the seniority number of the junior group 4 FO line holder by base? It would be much appreciated for the inquiring minds in internet land if one could look up the CLT group 4 FO lineholder and see how that compares to the most junior system wide. Where is Sliceback?

Surprise
02-21-2020, 07:23 PM
Interesting...Any way to look up the seniority number of the junior group 4 FO line holder by base? It would be much appreciated for the inquiring minds in internet land if one could look up the CLT group 4 FO lineholder and see how that compares to the most junior system wide. Where is Sliceback?

It is possible and Iím happy to do it later unless someone beats me to it.

Sliceback was scared off after being outed as a vacation-floating weak-unionist company sympathizer.

EMBFlyer
02-21-2020, 07:50 PM
I have no doubt it does. Most of those guys live in base, right? SC and living in base is the ticket. SC and a commuter is about as fun as wearing Oprah's panty hose as a ski mask.

I don't know. There's a certain widebody Captain in a southern base that likes to opine on The Line (C&R) all the time about being the most junior 777 CA on reserve as a commuter.

Name User
02-21-2020, 08:14 PM
Interesting...Any way to look up the seniority number of the junior group 4 FO line holder by base? It would be much appreciated for the inquiring minds in internet land if one could look up the CLT group 4 FO lineholder and see how that compares to the most junior system wide. Where is Sliceback?
Most people will retire before being able to hold the 330 in CLT in either seat....seriously.

AllYourBaseAreB
02-22-2020, 02:05 AM
All numbers today are moot. Time to hold anything will continue to drop like a rock as we hit nearly 1000 retirees a year here soon

Battlinbear
02-22-2020, 02:25 AM
A probi 190 fo was awarded 76 PHL on the June bid w a 9 mo lock starting then. This info provided is good stuff. Gonna be fun to watch this place go absolutely bonkers if the hiring and attrition continues. Now to see if we turn the ship, and actually become a airline people want to fly on.. or just keep printing money because the route network is almost as good as yoniteds.

Armyguy
02-22-2020, 03:00 AM
Since this is the internet and we rarely deal in facts, isnt WB FO around 12000? With all the hiring this year I see it reaching my seniority level next summer which would be less than 4 years on property. Then again, it could all change tomorrow.

Jersdawg
02-22-2020, 04:06 AM
Most people will retire before being able to hold the 330 in CLT in either seat....seriously.

CLT 330 FO went sub 10k on the latest bid, jr to PHL 330.

too early to detect the /s tag if thatís what you were going for

QuagmireGiggity
02-22-2020, 03:50 PM
short call goes more senior for widebody
Not really. Varies base to base but seems short call is the bottom in most. Long call most Junior in LAX 777.

QuagmireGiggity
02-22-2020, 03:54 PM
I've been told that as a new hire / regional flow pilot at AA, you could possibly be an F/O on the 777 or 787, 2 to 2.5 years after joining AA.
Is this true, or just wishful dreaming?
Probably ends up being true. As the 787 replaces the 76 it will keep going more and more junior.

TexNavy
02-23-2020, 10:23 AM
I've been told that as a new hire / regional flow pilot at AA, you could possibly be an F/O on the 777 or 787, 2 to 2.5 years after joining AA.
Is this true, or just wishful dreaming?

If the fleet plan for the next 5 years moves from 20 something 787s to the 80 something on order, I see that time frame being realistic.

AAL24
02-23-2020, 12:55 PM
If the fleet plan for the next 5 years moves from 20 something 787s to the 80 something on order, I see that time frame being realistic.

Dude your numbers are way off.

Buzzlightyear
02-23-2020, 01:10 PM
Weíve currently got 42 787ís and fleet will grow to 89.

Saabs
02-23-2020, 02:04 PM
Weíve currently got 42 787ís and fleet will grow to 89.
Iím sure most of those will be replacements for 767 and 777. I wouldnít expect pure growth.

Buzzlightyear
02-23-2020, 02:11 PM
Iím sure most of those will be replacements for 767 and 777. I wouldnít expect pure growth.
Correct, itís not pure growth as 78 is replacing 76 but the 787 fleet will roughly double.

Name User
02-27-2020, 02:34 PM
CLT 330 FO went sub 10k on the latest bid, jr to PHL 330.

too early to detect the /s tag if thatís what you were going for
wow. I confess, last time I looked it went to a 99 hire ha. So my bad.

black cat
02-27-2020, 03:05 PM
wow. I confess, last time I looked it went to a 99 hire ha. So my bad.

And the 320 dropped to a 15,xxx number. Things are finally moving in CLT.

Thedude
02-28-2020, 09:21 AM
And the 320 dropped to a 15,xxx number. Things are finally moving in CLT.

Mainly because CLT guys are leaving because of the stagnation and crappy trips.

DarinFred
02-28-2020, 02:15 PM
CLT trips get worse and worse every month.

wiz5422
02-28-2020, 02:42 PM
CLT trips get worse and worse every month.
Schedules are getting worse and worse everywhere.

HiFlyer992
02-28-2020, 07:09 PM
Schedules are getting worse and worse everywhere.

Agreed...reference DFW/320/I. There was a mass departure from that bid staus who went over to DFW domestic because even the top 10% still had garbage trip options.

Hueypilot
02-28-2020, 10:31 PM
Agreed...reference DFW/320/I. There was a mass departure from that bid staus who went over to DFW domestic because even the top 10% still had garbage trip options.

True. I would be around 15% in that bid status. But checking 3XP, the vast majority of the trips are either DOM overnights with an international leg in it (and why bid those in a tiny bid status when you can do the same in a much larger bid status with more to trade with), or overnights in BOG, UIO or GEO...and most are long red-eye flights home. A couple of years ago I was DFW/320/I, and junior pilots got hit with the BOG/UIO trips, but senior pilots were able to bid GCM, UVF, BGI, CUR and MBJ overnights, among others. Most of that has gone away to other bid statuses.

Arado 234
02-29-2020, 12:17 AM
I hate to ask, is the union doing anything about the "Sodomizer" ?

Brokeasspot
02-29-2020, 03:59 AM
What is so bad about BOG, UIO or GEO? I keep hearing stay away from these. As a commuter, red eyes to me would be better than coming in the day before or reserve.

Saabs
02-29-2020, 04:19 AM
What is so bad about BOG, UIO or GEO? I keep hearing stay away from these. As a commuter, red eyes to me would be better than coming in the day before or reserve.
just the redeye aspect if I had to guess. Domestic has commutable trips with no redeyes.

bigscrillywilli
02-29-2020, 05:53 AM
I hate to ask, is the union doing anything about the "Sodomizer" ?

they did, we got ďindustry-leadingĒ rigs that reduced the min day from 3 to 2 and now we have 5-day trips that could potentially take out 1/2 of a years sick bank in one shot!

RhinoBallAuto
02-29-2020, 05:55 AM
What is so bad about BOG, UIO or GEO? I keep hearing stay away from these. As a commuter, red eyes to me would be better than coming in the day before or reserve.

Except that they're trailing red-eyes... Leave SA around midnight local time, arrive DFW b/w 0545-0645. They're suck more than a first leg red-eye because you're recovering on your time, not the company's

bigscrillywilli
02-29-2020, 05:56 AM
Oh and that settlement didnít get us holiday pay and instantaneously expunged hundreds if not thousands of pilot-grievances.

Saabs
02-29-2020, 06:47 AM
they did, we got ďindustry-leadingĒ rigs that reduced the min day from 3 to 2 and now we have 5-day trips that could potentially take out 1/2 of a years sick bank in one shot!
thatís a million times better than three days worth 10-11 hrs. Heaven forbid we have the same rigs as delta or United

EMBFlyer
02-29-2020, 07:23 AM
I hate to ask, is the union doing anything about the "Sodomizer" ?

Nothing to do. There's no contractual language about it.

Arado 234
02-29-2020, 12:26 PM
What is so bad about BOG, UIO or GEO? I keep hearing stay away from these. As a commuter, red eyes to me would be better than coming in the day before or reserve.

BOG and UIO are high terrain airports. GEO is literally in the middle of nowhere. I have been at all three and have always arrived and departed there in the middle of the night. Layover itself is not too bad, people were generally friendly. GEO is a bit more third world than the other two if that's an issue for you.

Dobbs18
02-29-2020, 02:22 PM
thatís a million times better than three days worth 10-11 hrs. Heaven forbid we have the same rigs as delta or United
agree totally!!! I guess people donít remember the jr line holders that got 75hr lines with 10 or 11 days off before the rig...the sucked big time, nothing but 3 day redeye trips worth 10.5 to 11 hrs.

Hueypilot
02-29-2020, 04:22 PM
What is so bad about BOG, UIO or GEO? I keep hearing stay away from these. As a commuter, red eyes to me would be better than coming in the day before or reserve.

The hotels in BOG and UIO are great...the locations aren't bad either. But a 5-6 hour trailing red-eye is painful. And GEO...that's the location where they tell you not to go walking around outside alone. It's not bad if you only do one every so often, but with that bid status, you'll do multiple trips like that every month. Either that, or you'll be doing trips with domestic overnights and maybe 1-2 international legs. If a pilot wants domestic overnights, then why not just be in the domestic division, where there's 350+ pilots versus about 85? Trip trading was awful when I was international...hardly anything in open time, and if there was, it was a BOG/UIO red-eye.

I actually liked the international trips I flew...but that was back when DFW/320/I had some variety. I went to CUR often and I loved that overnight, along with GCM and BGI. I don't see many of those trips in the bid packages anymore.

Also...I am very glad the BOG/UIO trips aren't 11 hour trips anymore. When I first moved over to DFW/320/I, I was fairly junior and flew a LOT of BOG 11 hour 3-days and 17-hour 4-days. Now those same trips are worth at least 15-16 hours (or 21 hours for the 4-day trips).

Armyguy
03-01-2020, 12:20 PM
i dont mind geo at all. Walk around, eat some food. Ill take geo everytime.

SloanKettering
03-01-2020, 12:26 PM
Says the Armyguy :D Beats the heck out of sleeping on a cot with no running water and taking baby wipe baths! Oh and no one shooting at you...

Armyguy
03-04-2020, 03:51 AM
Says the Armyguy :D Beats the heck out of sleeping on a cot with no running water and taking baby wipe baths! Oh and no one shooting at you...
true

the hotel is nice, i just like getting paid to sit around