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View Full Version : Voluntary Leaves?


EskimoJoe
03-13-2020, 10:39 AM
Any word/rumors on how this would work? Duration? Benefits? Seniority accrual...etc


Thrill
03-13-2020, 01:31 PM
Have you tried Section 23?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ShyGuy
03-25-2020, 11:08 AM
Except the union communication was that sec 23 was not being looked at and that other leaves (paid an unpaid) were being considered and that info would be out late last week. Crickets since then, which can't be a good sign......


KnockKnock
03-25-2020, 11:13 AM
Except the union communication was that sec 23 was not being looked at and that other leaves (paid an unpaid) were being considered and that info would be out late last week. Crickets since then, which can't be a good sign......
Honestly I’d rather hear crickets right now than them rush out a bunch of hyperbole and change it every couple of days as this crisis deepens. Look what happened over at Delta. I’m guessing we’re in for some sobering news tomorrow.

EskimoJoe
03-25-2020, 11:56 AM
Iím thinking the delay in details isnít a good thing either. Iíd like a leave ASAP but without knowing any details, impossible to plan anything. May know more tomorrow but things change fast.

pacnw77
03-25-2020, 08:06 PM
Just now....

Alaska Airlines today announced plans to reduce its flight schedule for April and May by approximately 70%
​​​​​​https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/2020-03-25-Alaska-Airlines-announces-schedule-reductions-and-other-changes-to-conserve-cash

Notable:

Flight schedules for June and beyond will be based on demand, but it is our expectation that reductions will be substantial for at least the next several months.
Alaska Ė like other airlines Ė is seeing demand reductions of more than 80%.
​​​​​​We are announcing today the suspension of our cash dividend and we have previously announced the suspension of our share repurchase program.
We have drawn down $400 million on our line of credit and closed an additional secured loan for $425 million today.
We are announcing officer pay reductions through Sept. 30 as follows:

100% pay reduction for both the CEO and President of Alaska Airlines;
50% for the President of Horizon Air;
30% for EVPs and SVPs; and
20% for VPs and MDs.

We are actively soliciting employees who are interested in voluntary leaves of absence, under which Alaska would continue to pay both health and travel benefits.
We have suspended annual pay increases, plan to reduce hours for management employees, and will release contractors and temporary workers.

EskimoJoe
03-26-2020, 09:42 PM
American is on their 2nd round of bidding for leaves. 620 opted for early retirements. What the hell is taking Alaska so long to organize early out/ LOA bids? Letís go.

THE SHAFT
03-26-2020, 10:02 PM
Line bidding

Busdriver320
03-27-2020, 07:25 AM
American is on their 2nd round of bidding for leaves. 620 opted for early retirements. What the hell is taking Alaska so long to organize early out/ LOA bids? Letís go.

I believe you are confusing voluntary LOAs with "incentive" or no-fly lines.

VLOAs can be taken now, virtually no questions asked. 30-60-90-120 days. No pay. Company continues to pay health benefits (although yesterday's webcast seemed to erroneously outline that the company would pay the EMPLOYEE'S share...I thought they only paid theirs and the employee had to continue to pay their existing co-pays...this needs to be clarified)

Incentive lines (no-fly) will be coming and will be seniority based. They have two choices absent a MOU: pay everyone the CBA min of 75 and build lines for every bidder with way less block hours; or furlough, which they have stated over and over they don't (and can't if they take stimulus $). Saw a Rep last week and he confirmed they were working on details.
My guess is they'll be part of the monthly bid. Say there are 150 Incentive lines for SEA CA, lines 1-150 will be in the bid pack as worth X hours and show no trips. The rest will be normal lines, with perhaps less flying than 75 but still worth 75. Anyone senior who wants to make more $ can bid lines 1-150. The usual suspects will do so.

And yes, PBS would have allowed them to re-bid April. Will be interesting to see how much trips are cobbled up. Folks are going to show up for multi-day trips and fly 2-3 legs. Lots of time in hotel rooms!

flysnoopy76
03-27-2020, 07:34 AM
Iíve heard management has no appetite for paying for early retirements like American.

OTZeagle1
03-27-2020, 12:00 PM
American is on their 2nd round of bidding for leaves. 620 opted for early retirements. What the hell is taking Alaska so long to organize early out/ LOA bids? Letís go.

Sounds like 20-70 pilots are interested in any of these programs, they will come out but itís like throwing a glass of water on a house fire. Sounds like Zero early out incentives.

EskimoJoe
03-28-2020, 01:27 AM
As per normal. Alaska comes up with the worst leave programs and our MEC buys off on this garbage. No early outs offered. Month to month 50 hr no-fly incentive lines if you can hold them. How many? Which bases? Who knows? Not eligible to bid incentive line if you have any pre-credit accruals for the bid month beyond a single day of vacation. i.e. if you have recurrent, you CANNOT bid an incentive line. Why? WTFK? You can take an unpaid voluntary though and get just the training pay. Great. Canít plan beyond the next bid. Flying the line and selling severely discounted tickets is doing the exact opposite what the CDC says to do.

I wanted enough pay to cover the bills for a few months, save the company some money AND do my civic duty not to aid the spreading of the virus. Our MEC negotiated a program that makes all of this impossible.

Busdriver320
03-28-2020, 03:45 AM
As per normal. Alaska comes up with the worst leave programs and our MEC buys off on this garbage. No early outs offered. Month to month 50 hr no-fly incentive lines if you can hold them. How many? Which bases? Who knows? Not eligible to bid incentive line if you have any pre-credit accruals for the bid month beyond a single day of vacation. i.e. if you have recurrent, you CANNOT bid an incentive line. Why? WTFK? You can take an unpaid voluntary though and get just the training pay. Great. Canít plan beyond the next bid. Flying the line and selling severely discounted tickets is doing the exact opposite what the CDC says to do.

I wanted enough pay to cover the bills for a few months, save the company some money AND do my civic duty not to aid the spreading of the virus. Our MEC negotiated a program that makes all of this impossible.

You can bid incentive if you have 8 or less days of vacation, not just one. Read it carefully. Vacation days paid over and above the 50. Total BS that you canít bid it if you have training, MEC didnít fight hard enough for that, or didnít want to. It had to be discussed. Would be curious as to companyís reasoning on not allowing it.

rickair7777
03-28-2020, 07:15 AM
Iíve heard management has no appetite for paying for early retirements like American.

I'd only be interested in something like that if I could grab a lump sum. If the early retirement consists of collecting reduced monthly pay to age 65, well that only works until the BK filing.

And managers will not be interested in handing out a lot of lump sums right now, that's what actually pushed DAL over the Ch.11 edge in 2007.

Bugaboo
03-28-2020, 07:25 AM
I believe you are confusing voluntary LOAs with "incentive" or no-fly lines.

VLOAs can be taken now, virtually no questions asked. 30-60-90-120 days. No pay. Company continues to pay health benefits (although yesterday's webcast seemed to erroneously outline that the company would pay the EMPLOYEE'S share...I thought they only paid theirs and the employee had to continue to pay their existing co-pays...this needs to be clarified)

Incentive lines (no-fly) will be coming and will be seniority based. They have two choices absent a MOU: pay everyone the CBA min of 75 and build lines for every bidder with way less block hours; or furlough, which they have stated over and over they don't (and can't if they take stimulus $). Saw a Rep last week and he confirmed they were working on details.
My guess is they'll be part of the monthly bid. Say there are 150 Incentive lines for SEA CA, lines 1-150 will be in the bid pack as worth X hours and show no trips. The rest will be normal lines, with perhaps less flying than 75 but still worth 75. Anyone senior who wants to make more $ can bid lines 1-150. The usual suspects will do so.

And yes, PBS would have allowed them to re-bid April. Will be interesting to see how much trips are cobbled up. Folks are going to show up for multi-day trips and fly 2-3 legs. Lots of time in hotel rooms!

Thankfully there are no added hours allowed if you are awarded an in incentive line.

KnockKnock
03-28-2020, 07:29 AM
As per normal. Alaska comes up with the worst leave programs and our MEC buys off on this garbage. No early outs offered. Month to month 50 hr no-fly incentive lines if you can hold them. How many? Which bases? Who knows? Not eligible to bid incentive line if you have any pre-credit accruals for the bid month beyond a single day of vacation. i.e. if you have recurrent, you CANNOT bid an incentive line. Why? WTFK? You can take an unpaid voluntary though and get just the training pay. Great. Canít plan beyond the next bid. Flying the line and selling severely discounted tickets is doing the exact opposite what the CDC says to do.

I wanted enough pay to cover the bills for a few months, save the company some money AND do my civic duty not to aid the spreading of the virus. Our MEC negotiated a program that makes all of this impossible.
They probably figure a lot of guys are spooked enough to jump early without incentives. Hell, if I was anywhere near retirement I bail on my own and leave this circus in the rear view. Maybe this is a good omen that come fall they don’t see it being as dire as we all think it will be and don’t need to lop off the top. Grasping at straws I guess.

Busdriver320
03-28-2020, 07:32 AM
Thankfully there are no added hours allowed if you are awarded an in incentive line.

Yeah, I goofed in my original post. Meant to say anyone who wanted to make more $ could bid lines 150+ (NOT the no fly lines). And yes, thankfully prohibited from feeding at the trough!

clearandcold
03-28-2020, 05:36 PM
I'd only be interested in something like that if I could grab a lump sum. If the early retirement consists of collecting reduced monthly pay to age 65, well that only works until the BK filing.

And managers will not be interested in handing out a lot of lump sums right now, that's what actually pushed DAL over the Ch.11 edge in 2007.

I wonder if the lump sum was paid out between April 1 and September 30 if it would we reimbursable you the company via the payroll grants? Letís guys punch out if they want and allows the company to facilitate it without compromising their cash on hand.

full of luv
03-28-2020, 06:30 PM
I'd only be interested in something like that if I could grab a lump sum. If the early retirement consists of collecting reduced monthly pay to age 65, well that only works until the BK filing.

And managers will not be interested in handing out a lot of lump sums right now, that's what actually pushed DAL over the Ch.11 edge in 2007.

well kind of apples and oranges comparison. There was a provision in Deltas pilot pension program that allowed anyone at anytime over 50 and with 20 yrs to retire early. Then there was another provision that allowed you to request 1/2 your pension up front as a one time payment instead of a lifetime annuity.

when the shat started hitting the fan many pilots exercised those pension plan provisions before the writing on the wall took shape.... namely UAL had already moved to cancel there pilot pensions via BK court and many knew that of/when delta followed suit that pbgc would eliminate those provisions as well as limit pension value so pilots that were old enough and senior enough got told by their CPAs that you need to retire now and take the lump sum.

that money just drained out of the pension funds not the company cash coffers but that combined with lousy stocks at the time would have forced massive cash inputs by delta in the near future if not taking a trip to see a Bk judge and hand the pension schemes to pbgc.

rickair7777
03-28-2020, 06:36 PM
well kind of apples and oranges comparison. There was a provision in Deltas pilot pension program that allowed anyone at anytime over 50 and with 20 yrs to retire early. Then there was another provision that allowed you to request 1/2 your pension up front as a one time payment instead of a lifetime annuity.

when the shat started hitting the fan many pilots exercised those pension plan provisions before the writing on the wall took shape.... namely UAL had already moved to cancel there pilot pensions via BK court and many knew that of/when delta followed suit that pbgc would eliminate those provisions as well as limit pension value so pilots that were old enough and senior enough got told by their CPAs that you need to retire now and take the lump sum.

that money just drained out of the pension funds not the company cash coffers but that combined with lousy stocks at the time would have forced massive cash inputs by delta in the near future if not taking a trip to see a Bk judge and hand the pension schemes to pbgc.

All correct, I was not saying DAL was giving lump sums voluntarily (they weren't), just that a lot of folks were exercising their option (for good reason) and that was accelerating DAL's cash problem.

9mikemike
03-28-2020, 10:27 PM
Lump sum is really only a pension related item.....Simething most dont have

snackysmores
03-29-2020, 08:25 AM
A whopping 100 VeLOAs have been offered...seems like a drop in the bucket

flysnoopy76
03-29-2020, 08:47 AM
A whopping 100 VeLOAs have been offered...seems like a drop in the bucket

Expect anything less, (no pun intended) it is Alaska Airlines after all.

rickair7777
03-29-2020, 08:51 AM
A whopping 100 VeLOAs have been offered...seems like a drop in the bucket

Seems remarkably low... they'd rather have everyone on no-fly lines or reserve? They must know something we don't about the virus and economic recovery.

tzskipper
03-29-2020, 08:55 AM
Seems remarkably low... they'd rather have everyone on no-fly lines or reserve? They must know something we don't about the virus and economic recovery.
My understanding is that these are last minute for April.

No numbers for May yet.

Be safe.

S

squall line
03-29-2020, 09:15 AM
Exactly. This is for April.

ImperialxRat
03-29-2020, 09:20 AM
Why are they so worried about May vacation? Seems like an unusual amount of reminders that we can trade away May vacation.. if we are scaling back 58% of mainline flying youíd think they would just not care if weíre on vacation or not.

maybe Iím not understanding something about the scheduling side of this.

KnockKnock
03-29-2020, 10:07 AM
Why are they so worried about May vacation? Seems like an unusual amount of reminders that we can trade away May vacation.. if we are scaling back 58% of mainline flying youíd think they would just not care if weíre on vacation or not.

maybe Iím not understanding something about the scheduling side of this.
I think it has to do with the restrictions placed on one’s ability to bid an IL if they have more than 8 days vacay in the month. By extending the time you can trade away vacation days, it allows people to get under the 8 day restrictions and bid the IL’s. Maybe they see a lot of pilots that have more than 8 and need those pilots to bid the IL’s. I’m sure they’d much rather pay 50 hrs than 79. I’m guessing this is foretelling to the number of IL’s that will be available.

OTZeagle1
03-29-2020, 12:28 PM
Seems remarkably low... they'd rather have everyone on no-fly lines or reserve? They must know something we don't about the virus and economic recovery.

The company is pretty smart, they expect less then 40 pilots system wide to take them in April.

i bet itís closer to 20!

av8or
03-29-2020, 01:05 PM
The company is pretty smart, they expect less then 40 pilots system wide to take them in April.

i bet itís closer to 20!

did you mean May?

OTZeagle1
03-29-2020, 07:29 PM
did you mean May?


No April.... nothing like lots of notice

av8or
03-29-2020, 11:23 PM
No April.... nothing like lots of notice

i didnít think Incentive Lines were available for bid yet.... for May schedules

OTZeagle1
03-30-2020, 02:56 PM
i didnít think Incentive Lines were available for bid yet.... for May schedules

No April, not line 50ís but unpaid leaves.

ShyGuy
04-06-2020, 02:00 PM
Has there been any full pension guys retiring/leaving now?

Donkey22
04-06-2020, 11:57 PM
Has there been any full pension guys retiring/leaving now?


I heard a dozen or so. That was a week ago.