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hdgbug
03-14-2020, 11:21 AM
Figured now that they have put out notice, at least to us at Gama, that they are wanting to begin to bring all three WUP operators (Gama, TMC, Delta Private Jets) together with the same QOL/compensation/work rules/etc that it was time for a combined thread. Discuss away.


hdgbug
03-14-2020, 11:22 AM
What has DPJ and TMC pilots received about how we are dealing with COVID-19? I heard KD talk on the all WUP phone call and read his email yesterday. We at Gama haven't received anything else. No guidelines, no changes to cleaning procedures, nothing. So far seems like a lot of talk, and no real action.

I'm definitely not looking to debate the validity of whether COVID is a cause for concern medically or not. Clearly the industry and the public have made it cause for concern. I've received dozens of emails from all sorts of companies talking about their response. The FAA has put out guidance encouraging crews to eat in on the road and avoid going out if possible. Their guidance also states to not use public transit. I would consider Uber/Lyfts/shuttles as public transit. Textron has put out guidance on approved cleaning products that will kill the virus. I'm finding it progressively harder to believe they are taking this seriously for the crews without making any changes.

100LL
03-14-2020, 05:57 PM
Iíve heard private flying demand has gone up for obvious reasons at many 135 operations however I have to laugh at those idiot passengers. Wealth canít keep you safe. Crews can clean the aircraft and it could be the cleanest plane in the sky but those passengers forget a few very important pieces of the puzzle. FBO/line guys who may help load/unload bags could be infected. Their transportation drivers/limos could be infected and my favorite the pilots. Itís funny many passengers donít realize most of pilots who crew the planes they travel on travel to work on the airlines often connecting in major cities/virus hot beds. Yet they push on not knowing any of this thinking they are elite and safe bahaha.


Das Auto
03-15-2020, 12:25 PM
Iíve heard private flying demand has gone up for obvious reasons at many 135 operations however I have to laugh at those idiot passengers. Wealth canít keep you safe. Crews can clean the aircraft and it could be the cleanest plane in the sky but those passengers forget a few very important pieces of the puzzle. FBO/line guys who may help load/unload bags could be infected. Their transportation drivers/limos could be infected and my favorite the pilots. Itís funny many passengers donít realize most of pilots who crew the planes they travel on travel to work on the airlines often connecting in major cities/virus hot beds. Yet they push on not knowing any of this thinking they are elite and safe bahaha.

Maybe so, but if you can afford it you'd sooner take your chances with a couple of pilots who have paid sick leave if they feel ill over a tube full of 200 other people coughing and sneezing all over you. Plus you don't have to stand in line in close proximity to other passengers while going though security.
Nothing's guaranteed but most of the clientele we fly got to where they are by making smart decisions and managing risk. Flying private vs the airlines in these kind of situations is a good example.

hdgbug
03-15-2020, 02:59 PM
Iíve heard private flying demand has gone up for obvious reasons at many 135 operations however I have to laugh at those idiot passengers. Wealth canít keep you safe. Crews can clean the aircraft and it could be the cleanest plane in the sky but those passengers forget a few very important pieces of the puzzle. FBO/line guys who may help load/unload bags could be infected. Their transportation drivers/limos could be infected and my favorite the pilots. Itís funny many passengers donít realize most of pilots who crew the planes they travel on travel to work on the airlines often connecting in major cities/virus hot beds. Yet they push on not knowing any of this thinking they are elite and safe bahaha.

Thank you for your insightful contribution to the thread on what WUP operators are doing. It doesnít really concern me if those in the back get the whole picture. I care that they are there and keeping me from losing my job.

I do care about mitigating the risk for the crews. By continuing to go to work we are exposing ourselves to more risk of picking something up and getting sick or taking it back to our families. There is only so much we can do to mitigate our risk on the road. I know I'm taking additional steps out of an abundance of caution. At some point the company needs to step up and make some actual changes to things outside the control of the crew to assist in mitigating those risks (transportation, cleaning, etc.). They preach that we are on the front lines. The problem is if your front line staff gets sick, or has to quarantine because their family gets sick, you don't have a business anymore.

Gundriver64
03-15-2020, 03:01 PM
Maybe WU needs to start working on a COA to temporarily base aircraft at the primary airports where crews who live in the local area can staff the aircraft directly. Obviously, XYZ client is going to have to suck it up if they want their private flight.

Rest-assured quasi-SHTF is right around the corner. I hope that it lasts only a few weeks. Couple of months, tops.

Three Green
03-15-2020, 07:21 PM
Iíve heard private flying demand has gone up for obvious reasons at many 135 operations however I have to laugh at those idiot passengers. Wealth canít keep you safe. Crews can clean the aircraft and it could be the cleanest plane in the sky but those passengers forget a few very important pieces of the puzzle. FBO/line guys who may help load/unload bags could be infected. Their transportation drivers/limos could be infected and my favorite the pilots. Itís funny many passengers donít realize most of pilots who crew the planes they travel on travel to work on the airlines often connecting in major cities/virus hot beds. Yet they push on not knowing any of this thinking they are elite and safe bahaha.

you sound nice.

Cyborgmudhen
03-16-2020, 10:56 AM
you sound nice.
......s/he speaks the truth.

Spoiler alert, this is NOT a dating website.

StainRJDriver
03-16-2020, 04:52 PM
Maybe WU needs to start working on a COA to temporarily base aircraft at the primary airports where crews who live in the local area can staff the aircraft directly. Obviously, XYZ client is going to have to suck it up if they want their private flight.

Rest-assured quasi-SHTF is right around the corner. I hope that it lasts only a few weeks. Couple of months, tops.

I have friends at NetJets who have been receiving regular communications from management. Latest one states they are avoiding airline travel for on/off tour. Meanwhile, crickets over here aside from that one KD email...

B727DRVR
03-16-2020, 07:34 PM
Figured now that they have put out notice, at least to us at Gama, that they are wanting to begin to bring all three WUP operators (Gama, TMC, Delta Private Jets) together with the same QOL/compensation/work rules/etc that it was time for a combined thread. Discuss away.

Hey All,

This is some good info on the Corona Virus. I hope that they keep you all informed and safe. I think that this Important enough to have its own separate thread..

So, back to what hdgbug was saying about the amalgamation of the pay, benefits, and QOL of Wheels Up operators, when is that supposed to happen and would you all have single carrier status? You all would be the 800 lb. gorilla in Part 135!

Thatís exciting news..

MikeBates
03-16-2020, 07:52 PM
Hey All,

This is some good info on the Corona Virus. I hope that they keep you all informed and safe. I think that this Important enough to have its own separate thread..

So, back to what hdgbug was saying about the amalgamation of the pay, benefits, and QOL of Wheels Up operators, when is that supposed to happen and would you all have single carrier status? You all would be the 800 lb. gorilla in Part 135!

Thatís exciting news..

maybe Iím old fashioned or pacifist or something... but I will be quite content to simply have a job. Pay can stay where it is while the world burns down around us for all I care. Many people are about to start losing their jobs.

MikeBates
03-16-2020, 07:56 PM
Iíve heard private flying demand has gone up for obvious reasons at many 135 operations however I have to laugh at those idiot passengers. Wealth canít keep you safe. Crews can clean the aircraft and it could be the cleanest plane in the sky but those passengers forget a few very important pieces of the puzzle. FBO/line guys who may help load/unload bags could be infected. Their transportation drivers/limos could be infected and my favorite the pilots. Itís funny many passengers donít realize most of pilots who crew the planes they travel on travel to work on the airlines often connecting in major cities/virus hot beds. Yet they push on not knowing any of this thinking they are elite and safe bahaha.

This is some petty and petulant stuff right here. The ďeliteĒ as you call them are my customers and the lifeblood of our income. Spend less time meowing on guard and youíll realize that.

jbeauv
03-16-2020, 09:06 PM
Maybe WU needs to start working on a COA to temporarily base aircraft at the primary airports where crews who live in the local area can staff the aircraft directly. Obviously, XYZ client is going to have to suck it up if they want their private flight.

Rest-assured quasi-SHTF is right around the corner. I hope that it lasts only a few weeks. Couple of months, tops.

Yeah if you think WUP gives A Sh,t about the pilots getting sick you need to re-evaluate. I am wiping down my A/C with the Clorox wipes. Yesterday flight aware showed 30+ WUP aircraft in the air. They are making some serious money. Yesterday we blocked 7 hours with 4 legs and after being on the west coast for two days(east coast based) blocked over 8 hours today, starting in LAX with four legs and ending in Baltimore at midnight, oh and all the restaurants are closed (state mandated) Minimum rest tonight with 3 legs tomorrow, Duty on 10 am ending in TPA, planned arrival time in TPA 2330L. Do you think they care that I have crossed 4 time zones back and forth in 72 hours? Not as long as they can say they are legal.

MikeBates
03-16-2020, 09:52 PM
Yeah if you think WUP gives A Sh,t about the pilots getting sick you need to re-evaluate. I am wiping down my A/C with the Clorox wipes. Yesterday flight aware showed 30+ WUP aircraft in the air. They are making some serious money. Yesterday we blocked 7 hours with 4 legs and after being on the west coast for two days(east coast based) blocked over 8 hours today, starting in LAX with four legs and ending in Baltimore at midnight, oh and all the restaurants are closed (state mandated) Minimum rest tonight with 3 legs tomorrow, Duty on 10 am ending in TPA, planned arrival time in TPA 2330L. Do you think they care that I have crossed 4 time zones back and forth in 72 hours? Not as long as they can say they are legal.

bro, easy there. They can identify you with this information. Maybe delete this post?

StainRJDriver
03-17-2020, 02:23 PM
Sooooo Iím reading the latest email. If I get stuck on lock down/quarantine due to a government directive, i.e. NOT my choice, I may be required to make up time away from work due to that.....? :confused:

hdgbug
03-17-2020, 03:00 PM
Sooooo Iím reading the latest email. If I get stuck on lock down/quarantine due to a government directive, i.e. NOT my choice, I may be required to make up time away from work due to that.....? :confused:

The way I read it is that if you're home and your state goes on complete quarantine, you're still paid but may have to make up the time later. If you're on the road and you get quarantined, it doesn't count against you at all. What they didn't really address is what happens if your home goes on quarantine while you're on the road, or what happens to your schedule if you're quarantined on the road. Hopefully no one has to find out.

I'm glad they are giving us something extra for food on the road, and making sure we have cleaning supplies. I'd still like them to address public transit. I'm glad they finally put out something with some reasonable policies...just wish it'd been at least week sooner.

Still radio silence on what would happen if there is a total air travel ban.

Das Auto
03-17-2020, 09:31 PM
Still radio silence on what would happen if there is a total air travel ban.

I guess weíll just have to cross that bridge if / when we come to it. Rental (http://i.viglink.com/?key=481c1e0bb7406ee862f1f8858ec6342e&insertId=8db553e801f0a638&type=L&exp=-1%3Ana%3A0&libId=k7wvt2do0100a0tt000MAbtejwc58&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fnew reply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26p%3D3001836&v=1&iid=8db553e801f0a638&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outdoorsy.com%2F&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fpar t-135%2F128120-wheels-up-operators-gama-dpj-tmc-2.html&title=Reply%20to%20Topic%20-%20Airline%20Pilot%20Central%20Forums&txt=%3Cspan%3ERental%3C%2Fspan%3E) cars and / or driving personal vehicles to the aircraft and claiming mileage is one option. Pairing same base crew members and repo the aircraft to their base on day 8 is another. Private aviation, air ambulance and cargo might be the only ones who are able to keep their heads above water during this mess.

BuddhaPilot73
03-18-2020, 08:46 AM
I donít see the emails on the WU side unless itís directly related to the merger. DPJís DO has been doing a great job updating on company response, changes to operations and procedures, and how to keep the crews fed. Weíve been getting at least an email per day with answers to specific questions from the crews.

hdgbug
03-18-2020, 12:37 PM
I donít see the emails on the WU side unless itís directly related to the merger. DPJís DO has been doing a great job updating on company response, changes to operations and procedures, and how to keep the crews fed. Weíve been getting at least an email per day with answers to specific questions from the crews.

I'm glad DPJ has been on top of this. So far the email yesterday is the first communication from Gama. Hopefully, these things will be improved and more standardized between groups.

Did DPJ get the email from PD at TMC that says they are putting together a panel to help advise on the improvements they are working towards?

MikeBates
03-20-2020, 08:48 AM
Wow. I have never felt more grateful to be a part of a company than I do right now. I missed the first and probably best part of the conference call, but what I did hear was so comforting and, frankly, inspiring. While the world burns, wheels up is surging ahead. We are bringing in new members, renewing old ones, and doing more business than before. Our balance sheet could sustain us for several months if that changes. We have an outstanding leadership team around Kenny. You may think I am drinking the koolaid or something. I have worked for shady operators before- wheels up ainít one of them. Wheels up is a whole different breed of animal over here.

Ive always theorized that WUP is recession proof. Now here is the proof. If anyone has dirt to throw on our brand, theyíll have to go through me from now on. If youíre a pilot for WUP like me, letís bunker down, dig in, pack a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, dust off our old best western membership cards, and tough it out where necessary to keep our company thriving. Weíve got this. Iíve got your back. Letís kick some covid-19 a**.

MiracleMets
03-20-2020, 09:56 AM
Wow. I have never felt more grateful to be a part of a company than I do right now. I missed the first and probably best part of the conference call, but what I did hear was so comforting and, frankly, inspiring. While the world burns, wheels up is surging ahead. We are bringing in new members, renewing old ones, and doing more business than before. Our balance sheet could sustain us for several months if that changes. We have an outstanding leadership team around Kenny. You may think I am drinking the koolaid or something. I have worked for shady operators before- wheels up ainít one of them. Wheels up is a whole different breed of animal over here.

Ive always theorized that WUP is recession proof. Now here is the proof. If anyone has dirt to throw on our brand, theyíll have to go through me from now on. If youíre a pilot for WUP like me, letís bunker down, dig in, pack a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, dust off our old best western membership cards, and tough it out where necessary to keep our company thriving. Weíve got this. Iíve got your back. Letís kick some covid-19 a**.

Certainly some much needed good news amongst so much bad news. I am also impressed with their desire to drive forward while others are cancelling classes and hiring. Of course, this is a different kind of flying than the airlines who are suffering. The training department is looking at all available options to keep classes rolling, even remotely, if able.

hdgbug
03-20-2020, 10:17 AM
Wow. I have never felt more grateful to be a part of a company than I do right now. I missed the first and probably best part of the conference call, but what I did hear was so comforting and, frankly, inspiring. While the world burns, wheels up is surging ahead. We are bringing in new members, renewing old ones, and doing more business than before. Our balance sheet could sustain us for several months if that changes. We have an outstanding leadership team around Kenny. You may think I am drinking the koolaid or something. I have worked for shady operators before- wheels up ainít one of them. Wheels up is a whole different breed of animal over here.

Ive always theorized that WUP is recession proof. Now here is the proof. If anyone has dirt to throw on our brand, theyíll have to go through me from now on. If youíre a pilot for WUP like me, letís bunker down, dig in, pack a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, dust off our old best western membership cards, and tough it out where necessary to keep our company thriving. Weíve got this. Iíve got your back. Letís kick some covid-19 a**.

I've always known that WUP would do well during a recession. They have a great corner of the market carved out. I strongly believe that as long as the NAS is not shut down, and hotels and eateries remain open enough to support us on the road, WUP will come through this well. I'm glad to see continued and improved communication from Gama. I would still like to see them address airlining and public transit use. My biggest concern for picking something up on the road is either in an Uber or on the airline. Our competitors are making moves, some drastic, to keep their crews healthy by using more rentals and changing how people are getting to their airplanes.

I'm all in on keeping this operation going and doing my part. I'd just like them to be all in on taking the every step possible to keep the crews safe so we can continue to do our part.

Das Auto
03-20-2020, 11:21 AM
I've always known that WUP would do well during a recession. They have a great corner of the market carved out. I strongly believe that as long as the NAS is not shut down, and hotels and eateries remain open enough to support us on the road, WUP will come through this well. I'm glad to see continued and improved communication from Gama. I would still like to see them address airlining and public transit use. My biggest concern for picking something up on the road is either in an Uber or on the airline. Our competitors are making moves, some drastic, to keep their crews healthy by using more rentals and changing how people are getting to their airplanes.

I'm all in on keeping this operation going and doing my part. I'd just like them to be all in on taking the every step possible to keep the crews safe so we can continue to do our part.

To be fair alot of this comes down to personal responsibility. I just filled up my truck with gas. Entered my zip on the keyboard and pulled out the same pump handle that literally hundreds of other people have touched that day. Many coughing into their hand immediately prior.
I decided to go inside and wash my hands before getting back in my ride. While I was in there some dude walked out of the stall, skipped the sink and walked out to his vehicle, probably to go and pump his own gas. Unreal. We all need to be smart and change our own personal behavior. If some guy is coughing up a lung in his uber I'll ask from him to pull over and I'll order another ride. We all need to play our part.

jbeauv
03-20-2020, 12:25 PM
It may have nice to have more that a 6 minute warning that the call was happening.

Three Green
03-20-2020, 01:09 PM
To be fair alot of this comes down to personal responsibility. I just filled up my truck with gas. Entered my zip on the keyboard and pulled out the same pump handle that literally hundreds of other people have touched that day. Many coughing into their hand immediately prior.
I decided to go inside and wash my hands before getting back in my ride. While I was in there some dude walked out of the stall, skipped the sink and walked out to his vehicle, probably to go and pump his own gas. Unreal. We all need to be smart and change our own personal behavior. If some guy is coughing up a lung in his uber I'll ask from him to pull over and I'll order another ride. We all need to play our part.


move to jersey

jbeauv
03-20-2020, 02:11 PM
move to jersey



I am thinking the company should provide me with hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin so I can self medicate if I start feeling icky.

Das Auto
03-20-2020, 03:37 PM
move to jersey
Ha ha.

So that's why their covid rates are lower than New York!

Busdriver91
03-20-2020, 04:01 PM
I've always known that WUP would do well during a recession. They have a great corner of the market carved out. I strongly believe that as long as the NAS is not shut down, and hotels and eateries remain open enough to support us on the road, WUP will come through this well. I'm glad to see continued and improved communication from Gama. I would still like to see them address airlining and public transit use. My biggest concern for picking something up on the road is either in an Uber or on the airline. Our competitors are making moves, some drastic, to keep their crews healthy by using more rentals and changing how people are getting to their airplanes.

I'm all in on keeping this operation going and doing my part. I'd just like them to be all in on taking the every step possible to keep the crews safe so we can continue to do our part.

I urge you and everyone else to please address your concerns in a well written email to your pilot supervisor. If they donít hear our concerns, they will be oblivious. I am extremely frustrated with their lack of communication with cleaning the planes and continuing airline travel as Iím sure many others are as well. Itís kind of like writing your congressman but more likely to have some action.

StainRJDriver
03-20-2020, 04:16 PM
I urge you and everyone else to please address your concerns in a well written email to your pilot supervisor. If they donít hear our concerns, they will be oblivious. I am extremely frustrated with their lack of communication with cleaning the planes and continuing airline travel as Iím sure many others are as well. Itís kind of like writing your congressman but more likely to have some action.

I second this. For one, it is getting increasingly more difficult to get food while on the road. Also, Iím on the east coast and have run into a few west coast based pilots who are very concerned about the ability to get home if they end up out here on day 8. I understand this is a business and the priority is moving pax, but how about some real, specific and reassuring info on this topic to the pilots instead of the generic canned answer of, ďitís being looked at.Ē Being ďlooked atĒ wont guarantee me getting home to my family in a time where my stressed out wife who is at home with kids at home because their school is closed could use some help.

hdgbug
03-20-2020, 04:21 PM
I second this. For one, it is getting increasingly more difficult to get food while on the road. Also, Iím on the east coast and have run into a few west coast based pilots who are very concerned about the ability to get home if they end up out here on day 8. I understand this is a business and the priority is moving pax, but how about some real, specific and reassuring info on this topic to the pilots instead of the generic canned answer of, ďitís being looked at.Ē Being ďlooked atĒ wont guarantee me getting home to my family in a time where my stressed out wife who is at home with kids at home because their school is closed could use some help.

I'll third this one for good measure. My supervisor is well aware of my concerns.

I'm not on the road right now, can anyone confirm that it is in fact Puracyn that they are stocking for a cleaner? When I look it up it seems to be a wound care product, and I don't see it on the lists of products shown to kill the virus.

zephyerhills
03-21-2020, 07:52 AM
Glad to see you guys are doing so well.

Got to provide a vector for all of your rich virus carriers while the country is increasingly going into lockdown to stop the spread.

My grandma says thanks.

AirOverTheLog
03-21-2020, 08:49 AM
Glad to see you guys are doing so well.

Got to provide a vector for all of your rich virus carriers while the country is increasingly going into lockdown to stop the spread.

My grandma says thanks.

Itís okay, they are all heading to the islands. Iím sure theyíll all be safe there. Until they get Island fever :D

StandardBrief
03-21-2020, 08:53 AM
Glad to see you guys are doing so well.

Got to provide a vector for all of your rich virus carriers while the country is increasingly going into lockdown to stop the spread.

My grandma says thanks.

Based off your post history I donít really feel bad. Tell grandma to stay home and feel free to do it yourself. The bills still have to be paid. Iím sure all the furloughed people and all the minimum wage employees who were laid off donít give a ratís ass about stopping the spread. Welcome to reality. Despite your opinion, Wheels Up will have more applicants than it can process.

MikeBates
03-21-2020, 03:08 PM
Glad to see you guys are doing so well.

Got to provide a vector for all of your rich virus carriers while the country is increasingly going into lockdown to stop the spread.

My grandma says thanks.

Iím sorry you feel this way. Because everyone I flew this week were heading to be with their families. Kids coming home from college. And people heading to the mountains for isolation. And all the while in compliance with CDC guidelines not to congregate in groups of 10 or more. We are sanitizing the planes and hiding out in our hotel rooms at night. Among other protocols. Nobody is heading to the slopes. Nobody is heading to the beach. Everybody has got somewhere to be and someone to take care of. Stop demonizing my passengers. Go back to meowing on guard.

StainRJDriver
03-22-2020, 06:52 AM
FlexJet just announced they are no longer using airlines to move their pilots on/off tour, and instead will be using their own fleet to guarantee pilots will be able to get home in these very weird times we live in. Would like to see a similar announcement from WUP.

jbeauv
03-22-2020, 07:31 AM
FlexJet just announced they are no longer using airlines to move their pilots on/off tour, and instead will be using their own fleet to guarantee pilots will be able to get home in these very weird times we live in. Would like to see a similar announcement from WUP.
Lord please donít hold your breath on this one.

jbeauv
03-22-2020, 07:41 AM
Iím sorry you feel this way. Because everyone I flew this week were heading to be with their families. Kids coming home from college. And people heading to the mountains for isolation. And all the while in compliance with CDC guidelines not to congregate in groups of 10 or more. We are sanitizing the planes and hiding out in our hotel rooms at night. Among other protocols. Nobody is heading to the slopes. Nobody is heading to the beach. Everybody has got somewhere to be and someone to take care of. Stop demonizing my passengers. Go back to meowing on guard.

well.........I am not sure I could say the same. But I did have a few panicked passengers trying to get to an imploding business. So I agree that we needed to get them there. We pilots are still traveling through very busy airports to get to and from work(essential). I could do something like drive to a tier 1 base instead of my tier 2 base if they could hub aircraft there. The difference is a 2 hour drive vs a 4 minute drive and signature will let me park for free.

MikeBates
03-22-2020, 08:45 AM
I could do something like drive to a tier 1 base instead of my tier 2 base if they could hub aircraft there. The difference is a 2 hour drive vs a 4 minute drive and signature will let me park for free.

yes. Iím all for this. We need to follow FJís lead and go to a hub system where we drive to the nearest base. Extend tours if necessary.

StainRJDriver
03-22-2020, 12:11 PM
yes. Iím all for this. We need to follow FJís lead and go to a hub system where we drive to the nearest base. Extend tours if necessary.

While you may be able to extend, not all of us have that ability. Home lives donít pause during a pandemic either. So, as long as these are voluntary extensions thatís fine. But, letís not speak for everybody. We all have different situations at home.

LLWS09R
03-22-2020, 01:20 PM
While you may be able to extend, not all of us have that ability. Home lives donít pause during a pandemic either. So, as long as these are voluntary extensions thatís fine. But, letís not speak for everybody. We all have different situations at home.
Thank you! I agree 101%

jbeauv
03-22-2020, 02:25 PM
Thank you! I agree 101%

Yes I am no longer in the military where I had to leave my family alone at home to deal with things like natural disasters and such. Nothing in civilian sector is more important than the well being of my family. God knows they have done without me enough during trying times like this, they deserve better. If we are truly family at WUP, then the BOD should have no problem with us tending to our own flock, asking us work more would be selfish on their part. It is something they would have to figure out.

jbeauv
03-24-2020, 06:50 AM
It may have nice to have more that a 6 minute warning that the call was happening.

I think we are about due for an all hands conference call today

jbeauv
03-24-2020, 11:52 AM
FlexJet just announced they are no longer using airlines to move their pilots on/off tour, and instead will be using their own fleet to guarantee pilots will be able to get home in these very weird times we live in. Would like to see a similar announcement from WUP.

This is a smart move on FlexJets part. We are behind the power curve on this. I donít know about any of you but I had to travel thru some these places last tour. News article attached:March 21, the TSA confirmed additional cases (https://www.tsa.gov/news/statements) among officers at Washington Dulles International Airport (IAD), LaGuardia Airport (LGA) and Cyril E. King International Airport in the U.S. Virgin Islands (http://i.viglink.com/?key=481c1e0bb7406ee862f1f8858ec6342e&insertId=101cf1d1b8392774&type=L&exp=-1%3Ana%3A0&libId=k86bclf30100a0tt000TAdkoog6yx&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fnew reply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26p%3D3007318&v=1&iid=101cf1d1b8392774&opt=true&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tripadvisor.com%2FSmartDeals% 3Fgeo%3D147400&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fpar t-135%2F128120-wheels-up-operators-gama-dpj-tmc-4.html&title=Airline%20Pilot%20Central%20Forums%20-%20Reply%20to%20Topic&txt=%3Cspan%3EVirgin%20%3C%2Fspan%3E%3Cspan%3EIsla nds%3C%2Fspan%3E) (STT). On March 22, the TSA identified more cases (https://www.tsa.gov/news/statements) at Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR), Orlando International Airport (MCO) and John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK).

As of Monday, the TSA had listed 23 confirmed cases (https://www.tsa.gov/coronavirus) recorded since late February:


5 at John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK) in New York
4 at Norman Y. Mineta San Jose International Airport (SJC) in California
4 at the Orlando International Airport (MCO) in Florida
2 at Ft. Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport (FLL) in Florida
2 at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL) in Georgia
2 at Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR) in New Jersey
1 at the Cleveland Hopkins International Airport (CLE) in Ohio
1 at Cyril E. King International Airport (STT) in St. Thomas
1 at LaGuardia Airport (LGA) in New York
1 at Washington Dulles International Airport (IAD) in Virginia

All but one of the officers (a baggage handler at EWR) are employed as screening officers, according to the TSA. As of March 23, all but five had been present for work within the past 14 days.

Jkmsr
03-24-2020, 12:00 PM
This is a smart move on FlexJets part. We are behind the power curve on this. I donít know about any of you but I had to travel thru some these places last tour. News article attached:March 21, the TSA confirmed additional cases (https://www.tsa.gov/news/statements) among officers at Washington Dulles International Airport (IAD), LaGuardia Airport (LGA) and Cyril E. King International Airport in the U.S. Virgin Islands (http://i.viglink.com/?key=481c1e0bb7406ee862f1f8858ec6342e&insertId=101cf1d1b8392774&type=L&exp=-1%3Ana%3A0&libId=k86bclf30100a0tt000TAdkoog6yx&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fnew reply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26p%3D3007318&v=1&iid=101cf1d1b8392774&opt=true&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tripadvisor.com%2FSmartDeals% 3Fgeo%3D147400&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fpar t-135%2F128120-wheels-up-operators-gama-dpj-tmc-4.html&title=Airline%20Pilot%20Central%20Forums%20-%20Reply%20to%20Topic&txt=%3Cspan%3EVirgin%20%3C%2Fspan%3E%3Cspan%3EIsla nds%3C%2Fspan%3E) (STT). On March 22, the TSA identified more cases (https://www.tsa.gov/news/statements) at Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR), Orlando International Airport (MCO) and John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK).

As of Monday, the TSA had listed 23 confirmed cases (https://www.tsa.gov/coronavirus) recorded since late February:

5 at John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK) in New York
4 at Norman Y. Mineta San Jose International Airport (SJC) in California
4 at the Orlando International Airport (MCO) in Florida
2 at Ft. Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport (FLL) in Florida
2 at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (ATL) in Georgia
2 at Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR) in New Jersey
1 at the Cleveland Hopkins International Airport (CLE) in Ohio
1 at Cyril E. King International Airport (STT) in St. Thomas
1 at LaGuardia Airport (LGA) in New York
1 at Washington Dulles International Airport (IAD) in Virginia

All but one of the officers (a baggage handler at EWR) are employed as screening officers, according to the TSA. As of March 23, all but five had been present for work within the past 14 days.

yeah out of 7 bases. Some of their pilots are going to have to drive 10 hours in there off time just to get to work. They also go forced into longer schedules.

jbeauv
03-24-2020, 01:50 PM
yeah out of 7 bases. Some of their pilots are going to have to drive 10 hours in there off time just to get to work. They also go forced into longer schedules.

I asked someone who works there, If you choose a 15 day rotation 1/3 is overtime. If you drive they reimburse for mileage or they will rent you a car. The drive time is counted as on duty time.

hdgbug
03-25-2020, 08:28 AM
Does DPJ or TMC have furlough language in their policies? Gama only has lay-off language that requires reapplying to your position if it opens up again.

LLWS09R
03-25-2020, 03:26 PM
Does DPJ or TMC have furlough language in their policies? Gama only has lay-off language that requires reapplying to your position if it opens up again.

So short of the terminology they use when releasing a pilot. They have no obligation to call you back or can allow other applicants infront of you? Unless I understand this wrong it would be a very convenient way to save money on taking a 6 year Captain and starting him at day one SIC pay. I can see the bean counters eyes light up with joy!

Das Auto
03-25-2020, 04:04 PM
There's not much point in worrying about hypothetical scenarios right now, but I think it would be a huge mistake long term if there was a furlough that didn't respect seniority. Even Avantair did the right thing in that regard before they closed their doors for good and they didn't have a union.
This thing will pass, air travel will pick up and the pilot shortage will once again become a problem for apart 135 operators. When that happens the companies that survive this mess will be judged on how they treated their pilots, and it will certainly impact their ability to attract and retain quality talent.

B727DRVR
03-25-2020, 04:25 PM
Even Avantair did the right thing in that regard before they closed their doors for good and they didn't have a union.

You a VNR survivor, Bro...? And there was a Union at the end just before the doors closed on 06/26/13...., The UTU. Voted in too late to make any difference.

Das Auto
03-25-2020, 05:06 PM
You a VNR survivor, Bro...? And there was a Union at the end just before the doors closed on 06/26/13...., The UTU. Voted in too late to make any difference.

Yes. I went there in 2012 after my airline folded. I went from captain making six figures to right seat of the Piaggio making $35K to jack schiznit in the space of 6 months. Good times!

Great group of guys. Fortunately many found refuge with the birth of Wheels Up, myself included.

goingplaces
03-25-2020, 05:13 PM
You a VNR survivor, Bro...? And there was a Union at the end just before the doors closed on 06/26/13...., The UTU. Voted in too late to make any difference.

You are saying a lot of things I'm a DPJ 2013 start YOU?
we can talk

goingplaces
03-25-2020, 05:20 PM
Does DPJ or TMC have furlough language in their policies? Gama only has lay-off language that requires reapplying to your position if it opens up again.
ask B727DRVR he seems to know every ting aviation

B727DRVR
03-25-2020, 08:45 PM
ask B727DRVR he seems to know every ting aviation

Dats right, Mon... Every-ting!:D

B727DRVR
03-25-2020, 08:52 PM
You are saying a lot of things I'm a DPJ 2013 start YOU?
we can talk

No sir,

Not a DPJ guy, but know a few guys over there. I was asking Das Auto about being a fellow VNR survivor..:( Congratulations on the WheelsUp merger, by the way.

MikeBates
03-29-2020, 01:56 PM
Which one of you man-babies complained to the supervisors about the base consolidation? Good grief. The aviation world is a mess and you complain about a 4-5 hour drive to your new temporary base?!

Pre corona, I spent about 4+ hours in travel to my assigned plane anyway! And I live at a tier 1 base. (GAMA)

Das Auto
03-29-2020, 02:37 PM
Which one of you man-babies complained to the supervisors about the base consolidation? Good grief. The aviation world is a mess and you complain about a 4-5 hour drive to your new temporary base?!

Pre corona, I spent about 4+ hours in travel to my assigned plane anyway! And I live at a tier 1 base. (GAMA)

I'm both astounded and embarrassed that some people would have the audacity to complain that their lives have been temporarily inconvenienced by all of this. I can only assume that its the "hobby" pilots. The 65 plus guys that don't need a job, but don't like golf and get on the wife's nerves at home.
I already offered up my spare room should hotel accommodation become an issue where I live, and I'm more than happy to be flexible with the schedule.
Time to hunker down and embrace the suck until this blows over. Lets just hope that we have a demand for flying that will continue to produce revenue in the meantime.
There are hundreds, possible thousands of guys who would gladly switch places with us right now.

Eddard
03-30-2020, 07:21 AM
Which one of you man-babies complained to the supervisors about the base consolidation? Good grief. The aviation world is a mess and you complain about a 4-5 hour drive to your new temporary base?!

Pre corona, I spent about 4+ hours in travel to my assigned plane anyway! And I live at a tier 1 base. (GAMA)

Base consolidation is so pilots will walk on more often? Then so be it.
Iíll bet youíll see that most will be airlining to a plane anyway. Tier 1 or tier 2 base, if you have to airline anyway why does it matter where from? Also IMO airliners and terminals are the cleanest its ever been and social distancing is easy when your flight and the terminals are empty.

LLWS09R
03-30-2020, 07:43 AM
I'm both astounded and embarrassed that some people would have the audacity to complain that their lives have been temporarily inconvenienced by all of this. I can only assume that its the "hobby" pilots. The 65 plus guys that don't need a job, but don't like golf and get on the wife's nerves at home.
I already offered up my spare room should hotel accommodation become an issue where I live, and I'm more than happy to be flexible with the schedule.
Time to hunker down and embrace the suck until this blows over. Lets just hope that we have a demand for flying that will continue to produce revenue in the meantime.
There are hundreds, possible thousands of guys who would gladly switch places with us right now.

Lets all calm down. Fear and the unknown are hitting people in different ways. I agree in principle that we should all be thankful WUP keeping the pay roll flowing even if it cause slightly more effort on are part. However this virus can be anywhere especially in the hotels and takeout food we order every night. So why if government has labeled transportation industry work as ďhigh riskĒ of exposure. Why not argue to keep your base. While the logic of what the company implemented makes perfect sense for on/off travel due to the current situation. One can easily argue they do little to protect us during off duty time. So whatís the real difference on how we get to work. Catch Corona on United Airlines from a tier 2 city or catch it from the Uber eats driver in KBED

Das Auto
03-30-2020, 08:33 AM
Lets all calm down. Fear and the unknown are hitting people in different ways. I agree in principle that we should all be thankful WUP keeping the pay roll flowing even if it cause slightly more effort on are part. However this virus can be anywhere especially in the hotels and takeout food we order every night. So why if government has labeled transportation industry work as ďhigh riskĒ of exposure. Why not argue to keep your base. While the logic of what the company implemented makes perfect sense for on/off travel due to the current situation. One can easily argue they do little to protect us during off duty time. So whatís the real difference on how we get to work. Catch Corona on United Airlines from a tier 2 city or catch it from the Uber eats driver in KBED

It's not about fear and the stress it causes it's about a small group of people who whine and complain because they have to order takeout for dinner etc.
I'll be the first person to argue that if we're working hard and the company is doing well we deserve a slice of the pie, but it's a two way street.
The other side of the coin is what we're dealing with right now. The guys on the top floor are under enormous pressure to keep the wheels moving and a little flexibility from the guys on the line shouldn't be too much to ask.
The "man-babies" as Mike calls them need to give it a rest. Its not helping the cause.
It's like complaining to the fire department when they ask you to leave your burning home while they attempt to put out the flames.

LLWS09R
03-30-2020, 08:48 AM
It's not about fear and the stress it causes it's about a small group of people who whine and complain because they have to order takeout for dinner etc.
I'll be the first person to argue that if we're working hard and the company is doing well we deserve a slice of the pie, but it's a two way street.
The other side of the coin is what we're dealing with right now. The guys on the top floor are under enormous pressure to keep the wheels moving and a little flexibility from the guys on the line shouldn't be too much to ask under the circumstances.
The "man-babies" as Mike calls them need to give it a rest. Its not helping the cause.
I get it..... And I get what the company doing. However some of the concepts of what I ďassumeĒ the email addresses was perhaps more factorial based than emotionally based. I can contract Corona on United Ailrines as fast and easy as I can get it from a Subway sandwich worker. So why cause undo stress on myself and family. If thereís no evidence to prove I will not contract the virus anywhere on the road. At this point letís all play the game. However we all know thatís far from the truth of whatís going on currently.
As a side note I live in a base thatís currently a staging base so my view is inline with MIKE and Das Auto view. However if I was force to drive huge volumes of hours Iíd make the same argument the others probably are making. Or realistically I would throw in the towel and let the young generation spread there wings. I have a military retirement and run a small business. However as it currently stands my schedule is the exact same before the virus hit. So it business as usual for me.

Das Auto
03-30-2020, 09:01 AM
Getting to the aircraft on day 1 and getting home on day 8 might become more of a challenge with the massive reduction in airline flights. They could have pilots stranded in airports all over the place. That isn't reliable enough to ensure that our members flights are crewed, and people are getting home on day 8.
I understand their reasoning is to reduce possible exposure on the airlines. I suspect it's both.
Maybe the plan is to fly a King Air to and from the temp bases as an employee shuttle like Flex is doing with their Phenoms?

jbeauv
03-30-2020, 11:20 AM
Base consolidation is so pilots will walk on more often? Then so be it.
Iíll bet youíll see that most will be airlining to a plane anyway. Tier 1 or tier 2 base, if you have to airline anyway why does it matter where from? Also IMO airliners and terminals are the cleanest its ever been and social distancing is easy when your flight and the terminals are empty.

My last off tour travel went thru MCO and ATL, MCO was far from empty and social distancing only happened in the airplane itself. MCO was a fudgefest . The food court was open and people were sitting right on top of each other. Less than 72 hours later TSA announced 5 agents in MCO tested positive for the virus. We are moving in the right direction with walking on to an airplane and I have no problem driving further. I have problem with potentially being exposed because it was the cheapest and easiest thing to do.

Eddard
03-30-2020, 12:46 PM
My last off tour travel went thru MCO and ATL, MCO was far from empty and social distancing only happened in the airplane itself. MCO was a fudgefest . The food court was open and people were sitting right on top of each other. Less than 72 hours later TSA announced 5 agents in MCO tested positive for the virus. We are moving in the right direction with walking on to an airplane and I have no problem driving further. I have problem with potentially being exposed because it was the cheapest and easiest thing to do.

Exactly! Driving to Walk on to a plane is one thing.
Driving 4 to 5 plus to then airline is another.

LLWS09R
03-30-2020, 12:53 PM
Exactly! Driving to Walk on to a plane is one thing.
Driving 4 to 5 plus to then airline is another.
Excellent point. And that maybe thatís why people are complaining to the company.

Das Auto
03-30-2020, 01:21 PM
Exactly! Driving to Walk on to a plane is one thing.
Driving 4 to 5 plus to then airline is another.

Has that actually happened to anyone? If not whatís the point in getting all worked up about it?

Eddard
03-30-2020, 02:54 PM
Has that actually happened to anyone? If not whatís the point in getting all worked up about it?

Since itís a procedure that just started and people start coming on tour and off tour Tuesday. We shall see wonít we. And I can tell you that I go home tomorrow. There isnít any Walking off for me tomorrow. Iíll be airlining.

LLWS09R
03-31-2020, 09:20 AM
Has that actually happened to anyone? If not whatís the point in getting all worked up about it?
Well if you believe the WUP pilot Facebook yes people are still taking commercial flights. I canít confirm if itís on or off duty travel. However your explanation of flights canceling creating a head ache getting people to work make complete sense now. I knew there was some pull down but even Iím shocked by that picture.

StainRJDriver
03-31-2020, 01:22 PM
Didnít the email say Wednesday starts were going away? Iím still on tour tomorrow with a rental (http://i.viglink.com/?key=481c1e0bb7406ee862f1f8858ec6342e&insertId=c732301a37770bfc&type=L&exp=-1%3Ana%3A0&libId=k8genzs80100a0tt000MAdkukeubo&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fnew reply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26t%3D128120&v=1&iid=c732301a37770bfc&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outdoorsy.com%2F&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fpar t-135%2F128120-wheels-up-operators-gama-dpj-tmc-7.html&title=Reply%20to%20Topic%20-%20Airline%20Pilot%20Central%20Forums&txt=%3Cspan%3Erental%3C%2Fspan%3E) car out of my original base (which isnít part of the new base list) and my FO is arriving via airline travel. Just an FYI

Das Auto
03-31-2020, 07:33 PM
Didnít the email say Wednesday starts were going away? Iím still on tour tomorrow with a rental (http://i.viglink.com/?key=481c1e0bb7406ee862f1f8858ec6342e&insertId=c732301a37770bfc&type=L&exp=-1%3Ana%3A0&libId=k8genzs80100a0tt000MAdkukeubo&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fnew reply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26t%3D128120&v=1&iid=c732301a37770bfc&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outdoorsy.com%2F&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fpar t-135%2F128120-wheels-up-operators-gama-dpj-tmc-7.html&title=Reply%20to%20Topic%20-%20Airline%20Pilot%20Central%20Forums&txt=%3Cspan%3Erental%3C%2Fspan%3E) car out of my original base (which isnít part of the new base list) and my FO is arriving via airline travel. Just an FYI

I believe the wording in the letter was to minimize, not eliminate airline travel. I'm still amazed that people are griping. Rental car, uber, airline, personal vehicle or whatever, I don't care. I'd ride to work on the back of a camel right now if I had to.
We all need to remain flexible and suck it up until we're out of the woods. I promise no-one else is hiring at the moment (with the exception of the local supermarket.)

Stain driver, I believe the new start dates are effective beginning your next tour. I drove home to my original base in a rental car today. Next tour will be out of my new temp base.

StainRJDriver
04-01-2020, 07:22 AM
I believe the wording in the letter was to minimize, not eliminate airline travel. I'm still amazed that people are griping. Rental car, uber, airline, personal vehicle or whatever, I don't care. I'd ride to work on the back of a camel right now if I had to.
We all need to remain flexible and suck it up until we're out of the woods. I promise no-one else is hiring at the moment (with the exception of the local supermarket.)

Stain driver, I believe the new start dates are effective beginning your next tour. I drove home to my original base in a rental car today. Next tour will be out of my new temp base.


Gotcha. Sounds like they just messed up/didnít clarify the effective date. Doesnít make a difference to me, I just wanna make sure I get back to where my car is on day 8 lol

Das Auto
04-01-2020, 07:42 AM
Gotcha. Sounds like they just messed up/didnít clarify the effective date. Doesnít make a difference to me, I just wanna make sure I get back to where my car is on day 8 lol

Yeah I had the same concern so I made a call to clarify. I agree they could have worded it better.

hdgbug
04-01-2020, 09:16 AM
Yeah I had the same concern so I made a call to clarify. I agree they could have worded it better.

I've been critical of them for not making any changes to reduce our airline exposure, and I want to make sure to acknowledge that they've finally addressed it. That being said, they certainly could have been more clear about when these changes are taking effect. I know of several people who are concerned that they are going find out that they are now starting on Tuesday the day before. However, we certainly need to bend with the wind these days! I've heard mumblings that WUP isn't looking at involuntary furloughs for at least a couple months (cross your fingers!). Reach out to scheduling or your supervisor with questions, and don't wait until the last minute.

jbeauv
04-01-2020, 12:19 PM
I've been critical of them for not making any changes to reduce our airline exposure, and I want to make sure to acknowledge that they've finally addressed it. That being said, they certainly could have been more clear about when these changes are taking effect. I know of several people who are concerned that they are going find out that they are now starting on Tuesday the day before. However, we certainly need to bend with the wind these days! I've heard mumblings that WUP isn't looking at involuntary furloughs for at least a couple months (cross your fingers!). Reach out to scheduling or your supervisor with questions, and don't wait until the last minute.

Well they just signed up to donate 10million meals to people affected by COVID19, if they are going to start furloughs they may want to set aside a few meals for the crews. :)

Busdriver91
04-01-2020, 07:01 PM
Was there an actual memo about taking all the stock off the plane? The only reason why I knew is because I listened to the last conference call. Also the cleaner which they mentioned in a memo called Puracyn is actually a wound and skin cleanser. Has there been any explanation why this was chosen?

Iím glad they started to address the airline problem as both my flying partner and I had a rental (http://i.viglink.com/?key=481c1e0bb7406ee862f1f8858ec6342e&insertId=224fcab1b8b96271&type=L&exp=-1%3Ana%3A0&libId=k8i5wxbr0100a0tt000TAezc3vx1s&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fnew reply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26noquote%3D1%26p%3D3019 590&v=1&iid=224fcab1b8b96271&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outdoorsy.com%2F&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fpar t-135%2F128120-wheels-up-operators-gama-dpj-tmc-8.html&title=Airline%20Pilot%20Central%20Forums%20-%20Reply%20to%20Topic&txt=%3Cspan%3Erental%3C%2Fspan%3E) to drive to the plane this tour. On the other hand the lack of communication and transparency from everyone above me is embarrassing.

StainRJDriver
04-02-2020, 05:04 AM
Was there an actual memo about taking all the stock off the plane? The only reason why I knew is because I listened to the last conference call. Also the cleaner which they mentioned in a memo called Puracyn is actually a wound and skin cleanser. Has there been any explanation why this was chosen?

Iím glad they started to address the airline problem as both my flying partner and I had a rental (http://i.viglink.com/?key=481c1e0bb7406ee862f1f8858ec6342e&insertId=224fcab1b8b96271&type=L&exp=-1%3Ana%3A0&libId=k8i5wxbr0100a0tt000TAezc3vx1s&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fnew reply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26noquote%3D1%26p%3D3019 590&v=1&iid=224fcab1b8b96271&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outdoorsy.com%2F&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fpar t-135%2F128120-wheels-up-operators-gama-dpj-tmc-8.html&title=Airline%20Pilot%20Central%20Forums%20-%20Reply%20to%20Topic&txt=%3Cspan%3Erental%3C%2Fspan%3E) to drive to the plane this tour. On the other hand the lack of communication and transparency from everyone above me is embarrassing.

I kept hearing about the stock removal thing, but didnít see anything official. I didnít make the last conference call. So, I called ops and they verified stock to be removed from airplane so thatís what we did. Also, he said be sure to account for that on weight & balance.

As far as the Puracyn thing goes, I asked my sister who is an RN and she said if itís good enough to clean open wounds then it should be effective in killing any viruses on surfaces. Iím guessing it was just one of the more readily available products.

BuddhaPilot73
04-02-2020, 11:03 AM
I kept hearing about the stock removal thing, but didnít see anything official. I didnít make the last conference call. So, I called ops and they verified stock to be removed from airplane so thatís what we did. Also, he said be sure to account for that on weight & balance.

As far as the Puracyn thing goes, I asked my sister who is an RN and she said if itís good enough to clean open wounds then it should be effective in killing any viruses on surfaces. Iím guessing it was just one of the more readily available products.

DPJ CP emailed the pilot group on Mar 25th directing removal of stock. Why are things like this not going through some email chain that covers all three operators? I would think changes to procedures and protective measures should be a standardized effort for all.

LLWS09R
04-02-2020, 12:13 PM
DPJ CP emailed the pilot group on Mar 25th directing removal of stock. Why are things like this not going through some email chain that covers all three operators? I would think changes to procedures and protective measures should be a standardized effort for all.
My only guess would be no one knew the magnitude of this problem. WUP was probably betting on the fact it would be buisness as usual for a while why they got their ducks in a row. Iím guessing with just about every airline around the world policy is being dictated by the old expression. ďThrow mud at the wall and see what sticksĒ

MikeBates
04-02-2020, 06:26 PM
I would think changes to procedures and protective measures should be a standardized effort for all.

they will be. We are a very young company when you consider that gama/tmc/dpj have only been under the same roof for a matter of weeks. Itíll come.

BuddhaPilot73
04-02-2020, 07:13 PM
they will be. We are a very young company when you consider that gama/tmc/dpj have only been under the same roof for a matter of weeks. Itíll come.

They had zero issue getting KDís messages of how great the merger is and all the new benefits our members and owners will receive while we lose some of the things that were keeping pilots at the company. When that goes out directly to the all three pilot and FA group email lists, thatís a little tone deaf. Youíd think this would be a more important effort than that. Just my two cents.

jbeauv
04-03-2020, 03:39 AM
They had zero issue getting KDís messages of how great the merger is and all the new benefits our members and owners will receive while we lose some of the things that were keeping pilots at the company. When that goes out directly to the all three pilot and FA group email lists, thatís a little tone deaf. Youíd think this would be a more important effort than that. Just my two cents.

A reliable source has indicated that we have WUP pilots with symptoms of COVID 19, however there is no way to confirm if they tested positive. The company said they would ďdo their best to notify anyone who was in contactĒ. There is HIPAA involved, so you will not know unless if you have been in contact with that person. Given the time it takes to exhibit the symptoms, we can become carriers or spread the virus ourselves(2x2x2x2 etc.) If you have any doubt do everyone a favor and stay home. Read the employees rights that HR sent out, you will be covered up to 80 hours of sick leave for reasons 2,3,4. Unfortunately reason 1 does not apply because you have been deemed essential. Please be safe out there!

Gustafson
04-03-2020, 06:41 AM
A reliable source has indicated that we have WUP pilots with symptoms of COVID 19, however there is no way to confirm if they tested positive. The company said they would ďdo their best to notify anyone who was in contactĒ. There is HIPAA involved, so you will not know unless if you have been in contact with that person. Given the time it takes to exhibit the symptoms, we can become carriers or spread the virus ourselves(2x2x2x2 etc.) If you have any doubt do everyone a favor and stay home. Read the employees rights that HR sent out, you will be covered up to 80 hours of sick leave for reasons 2,3,4. Unfortunately reason 1 does not apply because you have been deemed essential. Please be safe out there!

2 have tested positive and were not in contact with other pilots.

Busdriver91
04-06-2020, 06:47 AM
Wheels UP just announced a ďshared sacrificeĒ to avoid layoffs. Pilots have the option of leave without pay but sill keep health insurance. The rest of us will be placed in 8/13 or 8/20 schedule and pay adjusted accordingly.

biigD
04-06-2020, 06:53 AM
Wheels UP just announced a ďshared sacrificeĒ to avoid layoffs. Pilots have the option of leave without pay but sill keep health insurance. The rest of us will be placed in 8/13 or 8/20 schedule and pay adjusted accordingly.

Ugh - hang in there guys. Is the 8/13 or 8/20 schedule a big pay hit?

LLWS09R
04-06-2020, 06:58 AM
Wheels UP just announced a ďshared sacrificeĒ to avoid layoffs. Pilots have the option of leave without pay but sill keep health insurance. The rest of us will be placed in 8/13 or 8/20 schedule and pay adjusted accordingly.
Well I think Iím taking the volunteer lay-off with health insurance. Hopefully everyone does whatís best for them and their family. See yíall in 3-6 mos!! Stay safe!

Busdriver91
04-06-2020, 07:03 AM
Ugh - hang in there guys. Is the 8/13 or 8/20 schedule a big pay hit?

the details arenít out yet. I calculated 8/13 as a 1/3 reduction in pay and the 8/20 as a 1/2 reduction.

jbeauv
04-06-2020, 07:15 AM
the details arenít out yet. I calculated 8/13 as a 1/3 reduction in pay and the 8/20 as a 1/2 reduction.
maybe it will be better than that, letís hope it is not worse. I understood the 120 day was non essential personnel only.

Das Auto
04-06-2020, 07:23 AM
Depending on what state you live in and how much they pay in unemployment, the 120 day leave with the extra $600 a week from the federal government could be an attractive option.

LLWS09R
04-06-2020, 07:40 AM
maybe it will be better than that, letís hope it is not worse. I understood the 120 day was non essential personnel only.
Maybe Iím wrong but it seems they are referring to pilots. If Iím wrong Iím wrong. But with the schedule situation it makes sense itís the pilots.

jbeauv
04-06-2020, 07:44 AM
Maybe Iím wrong but it seems they are referring to pilots. If Iím wrong Iím wrong. But with the schedule situation it makes sense itís the pilots.
I guess we will see when the pilots get the letter at 11:30................time now 11:45

HouseMouse
04-06-2020, 07:59 AM
Can someone tell me why people would accept the leave without pay but keep health insurance over the reduced 8/13 and 8/20 schedule?

LLWS09R
04-06-2020, 08:04 AM
Can someone tell me why people would accept the leave without pay but keep health insurance over the reduced 8/13 and 8/20 schedule?
It will be personal decision by each pilot. Iím sure most of us with Military and other companies retirement will jump on the leave with out pay and take the health care. Thatís why half of us are here ďFor the golden health BenefitsĒ. But some may need the pay. However I donít know each individual pilots financial situation.

Das Auto
04-06-2020, 08:12 AM
Can someone tell me why people would accept the leave without pay but keep health insurance over the reduced 8/13 and 8/20 schedule?

Lots of reasons. For one the federal government will give you $600 a week on top of your state unemployment to stay home.
A lot of guys here donít necessarily need to work because of military pensions Etc. and are just working here to supplement their retirement.
Some people have their own business and could use the time off to work at that.
The most obvious to me though would be the opportunity to hunker down at home and avoid contact with the outside world while this whole thing blows over. Particularly the older pilots who are most vulnerable to the virus.
Kids out of school need home schooling. Some parents might want to take that on etc.
Iím sure there are many other reasons and everyone has to evaluate the pros and cons based on their own personal situation.

jbeauv
04-06-2020, 08:15 AM
Maybe Iím wrong but it seems they are referring to pilots. If Iím wrong Iím wrong. But with the schedule situation it makes sense itís the pilots.
Kennyís letter states non-pilot 120 day. Pilots have the 8/20 volunteer or mandatory 8/13. At least that is what was stated in the call. Letter to follow at 11:30.

250kt Final
04-06-2020, 08:50 AM
Can someone tell me why people would accept the leave without pay but keep health insurance over the reduced 8/13 and 8/20 schedule?

I donít work for WU but I do similar flying..the unpaid leave may be beneficial to retired airline folks if they have a lot saved up while maintaining health insurance. Unfortunately a lot of us have not retired or donít have significant savings to last us for months so we must work.

MikeBates
04-06-2020, 10:26 AM
Iím still waiting for that pilot email. I got the company-wide email but not the second pilot one. Anyone else?

LLWS09R
04-06-2020, 10:29 AM
I donít work for WU but I do similar flying..the unpaid leave may be beneficial to retired airline folks if they have a lot saved up while maintaining health insurance. Unfortunately a lot of us have not retired or donít have significant savings to last us for months so we must work.
Well the unfortunate truth is every pilot has different needs and there can not be an exception for every pilots needs. Those younger pilots with a family to feed my heart goes out to them. All I can say to them is life will get back to normal. And when it does remember this and think wisely and save.

jbeauv
04-06-2020, 10:46 AM
Iím still waiting for that pilot email. I got the company-wide email but not the second pilot one. Anyone else?
it is coming at 11:30..................

MikeBates
04-06-2020, 12:19 PM
it is coming at 11:30..................

what, PM? Tonight?

jbeauv
04-06-2020, 12:48 PM
what, PM? Tonight?
Right he didnít say what day , just later around 11:30

jbeauv
04-06-2020, 03:47 PM
what, PM? Tonight?

From the DO at WUP, I understand some of the KA pilots didnít get this.

ďI just had a discussion with Greg. I have been told there is still another crew email with more specificity coming out from the company, for the pilots. I expect it later this evening. I will keep all up to date.ď

GeliDonut
04-06-2020, 05:55 PM
From the DO at WUP, I understand some of the KA pilots didnít get this.

ďI just had a discussion with Greg. I have been told there is still another crew email with more specificity coming out from the company, for the pilots. I expect it later this evening. I will keep all up to date.ď

The long anticipated pilot specific email came. Chock full of no new helpful information.

hdgbug
04-06-2020, 06:00 PM
KDís handout was very clear that they were going to try to take advantage of the stimulus money, and the letter specified that the money was to avoid involuntary furloughs and (in bold) pay rate reductions. While they havenít released the pay implications on the reduced schedule options, one can assume they will pay a reduced amount. Since us at Gama (not sure about TMC or DPJ) are paid a salary (not day rates or hourly), how can they reduce our salary and still say they are not reducing our pay rates?

Das Auto
04-06-2020, 06:41 PM
Because if you work 30% fewer days than your typical 8&6 youíll be paid 30% less than your full salary, and if you work 50% less youíll be paid 50% less according.

No reduction in pay rates, just a reduction in days worked, therefore days paid.

Disclaimer. Iím not a lawyer, just my take on it.

LLWS09R
04-06-2020, 06:54 PM
KDís handout was very clear that they were going to try to take advantage of the stimulus money, and the letter specified that the money was to avoid involuntary furloughs and (in bold) pay rate reductions. While they havenít released the pay implications on the reduced schedule options, one can assume they will pay a reduced amount. Since us at Gama (not sure about TMC or DPJ) are paid a salary (not day rates or hourly), how can they reduce our salary and still say they are not reducing our pay rates?

While Iím taking the complete leave of absent. It made me think what is are daily rate?

hdgbug
04-06-2020, 07:40 PM
Because if you work 30% fewer days than your typical 8&6 youíll be paid 30% less than your full salary, and if you work 50% less youíll be paid 50% less according.

No reduction in pay rates, just a reduction in days worked, therefore days paid.

Disclaimer. Iím not a lawyer, just my take on it.

While Iím taking the complete leave of absent. It made me think what is are daily rate?

I understand the logic in reducing pay the same amount as reducing days worked.

But we are not paid by a day rate. The FOH, which is what currently lays out our pay, and the offer letter when I was hired defines pay as a yearly salary. Again, I understand how they are assumed to be reducing it. However to me, the no reduction in pay rate part of the stimulus requirements seems to be directly addressing situations like this.

jbeauv
04-08-2020, 11:26 AM
Didnít the email say Wednesday starts were going away? Iím still on tour tomorrow with a rental (http://i.viglink.com/?key=481c1e0bb7406ee862f1f8858ec6342e&insertId=c732301a37770bfc&type=L&exp=-1%3Ana%3A0&libId=k8genzs80100a0tt000MAdkukeubo&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fnew reply.php%3Fdo%3Dnewreply%26t%3D128120&v=1&iid=c732301a37770bfc&opt=true&out=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outdoorsy.com%2F&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.airlinepilotforums.com%2Fpar t-135%2F128120-wheels-up-operators-gama-dpj-tmc-7.html&title=Reply%20to%20Topic%20-%20Airline%20Pilot%20Central%20Forums&txt=%3Cspan%3Erental%3C%2Fspan%3E) car out of my original base (which isnít part of the new base list) and my FO is arriving via airline travel. Just an FYI

I start tomorrow, I am not walking on at my temporary base. I received airline travel out of my regular base. So it seems base consolidation and walking on the plane to avoid exposure is not a sure thing at this point. Anyone out there wearing PPE( face masks) ?

StainRJDriver
04-08-2020, 01:35 PM
I start tomorrow, I am not walking on at my temporary base. I received airline travel out of my regular base. So it seems base consolidation and walking on the plane to avoid exposure is not a sure thing at this point. Anyone out there wearing PPE( face masks) ?

Iíve seen some pilots for other companies wearing them. We wore gloves when loading bags this week.

Also, on a side note: is there anything that actually says picking one of these reduced schedule programs is mandatory? Someone brought it to my attention that in every communication weíve received, you can almost read it as being optional to ďhelp out.Ē I was under the impression itís mandatory but he seemed to think otherwise...

GeliDonut
04-08-2020, 01:46 PM
Also, on a side note: is there anything that actually says picking one of these reduced schedule programs is mandatory? Someone brought it to my attention that in every communication weíve received, you can almost read it as being optional to ďhelp out.Ē I was under the impression itís mandatory but he seemed to think otherwise...

Wasnít explained well at all, but according to pilot sups the way to understand it is...company is going to 8/13. Period. You have the CHOICE of doing LOA or 8/20 instead. Wasnít presented that way, but thatís the gist.

StainRJDriver
04-08-2020, 02:09 PM
Wasnít explained well at all, but according to pilot sups the way to understand it is...company is going to 8/13. Period. You have the CHOICE of doing LOA or 8/20 instead. Wasnít presented that way, but thatís the gist.

Thanks for clarifying that. I agree with you. I sympathize with them and understand theyíve been scrambling, but to receive the little info weíve gotten with a decision date of Friday was a little sh***y...

hdgbug
04-08-2020, 06:05 PM
Thanks for clarifying that. I agree with you. I sympathize with them and understand theyíve been scrambling, but to receive the little info weíve gotten with a decision date of Friday was a little sh***y...

We are up to 3 or 4 emails on the topic and they still haven't explicitly stated in writing the effect this will have on our salary. I'm hoping this is a result of an oversight, not an attempt to cut salaries and still apply for the bailout which prohibits cutting pay rates. I have pressed for it to be laid out clearly how this effects our pay, and I would encourage everyone to ask the question.

Maybe it's my history with sketchy companies, but this omission over multiple emails from different people makes me nervous. I sure hope they wouldn't be trying to reduce salaries beyond the reduction in scheduled days, but again we are paid a yearly salary, nothing tied to days or hours worked.

Busdriver91
04-08-2020, 06:34 PM
We are up to 3 or 4 emails on the topic and they still haven't explicitly stated in writing the effect this will have on our salary. I'm hoping this is a result of an oversight, not an attempt to cut salaries and still apply for the bailout which prohibits cutting pay rates. I have pressed for it to be laid out clearly how this effects our pay, and I would encourage everyone to ask the question.

Maybe it's my history with sketchy companies, but this omission over multiple emails from different people makes me nervous. I sure hope they wouldn't be trying to reduce salaries beyond the reduction in scheduled days, but again we are paid a yearly salary, nothing tied to days or hours worked.

It was specifically stated in the email from Charlie Wogast. 8/13 is a 33% cut and the 8/20 is a 50 % cut in salary. The pay drop is proportional to the amount worked.

hdgbug
04-08-2020, 07:27 PM
It was specifically stated in the email from Charlie Wogast. 8/13 is a 33% cut and the 8/20 is a 50 % cut in salary. The pay drop is proportional to the amount worked.

I'm not trying to be difficult, however the letter from Wolgast did no such thing. The letter does not address compensation in any direct way. I understand the inference that could be drawn when it says "8/20 schedule (50% reduction)" and "8/13 schedule (33% reduction)". But nowhere does it state that these statements are related to compensation, it could only be addressing a 50% or 33% reduction in schedule.

Also, if we are talking about that letter, it stated that we were to receive more information on those programs later that day. I was expecting to see a better breakdown of the options when we received that additional information. That additional information never came.

While yes, I can come to the same conclusion that pay will be reduced the same amount as schedule, why is it seemingly impossible to have that in writing? Having it in writing doesn't hurt the company unless they are trying to hide or get around something. Not having it in writing gives them the potential of a blank check for what they can do to our compensation in the name of shared sacrifice. I've unfortunately experienced what can happen when the employees aren't protected by clear policies. I'm trying to chalk this omission up to the craziness that I am sure has been happening across the company the past couple days, and obviously there have been breakdowns in getting the information out to the pilots. But this is my livelihood that they are affecting, and I do feel entitled to a clear understanding of the way in which they are altering my compensation.

I am definitely grateful to still be employed and thankful to be in a position where a bit of shared sacrifice isn't going to be severely damaging to me. That doesn't change the fact that the communication needs to be better.

StainRJDriver
04-09-2020, 07:15 AM
We are up to 3 or 4 emails on the topic and they still haven't explicitly stated in writing the effect this will have on our salary. I'm hoping this is a result of an oversight, not an attempt to cut salaries and still apply for the bailout which prohibits cutting pay rates. I have pressed for it to be laid out clearly how this effects our pay, and I would encourage everyone to ask the question.

Maybe it's my history with sketchy companies, but this omission over multiple emails from different people makes me nervous. I sure hope they wouldn't be trying to reduce salaries beyond the reduction in scheduled days, but again we are paid a yearly salary, nothing tied to days or hours worked.

Iíll have to look through and see which publication is the one that said it, but I know there was one that did clearly say that the salary reductions were the same as the percent in schedule reduction. In other words, the 8/13 will be a 33% PAY reduction and the 8/20 a 50% PAY reduction.

One thing to consider is that many states are allowing partial unemployment due to reduced hours because of the pandemic. I know my state is one of them. Just another thing to consider.

hdgbug
04-09-2020, 08:54 AM
Iíll have to look through and see which publication is the one that said it, but I know there was one that did clearly say that the salary reductions were the same as the percent in schedule reduction. In other words, the 8/13 will be a 33% PAY reduction and the 8/20 a 50% PAY reduction.

One thing to consider is that many states are allowing partial unemployment due to reduced hours because of the pandemic. I know my state is one of them. Just another thing to consider.

I'm fairly confident that I have scrubbed the documents they have sent out and have not found anything written about compensation, but I could have missed something. Please let us know if you can locate it. GF did verbalize this concept in the call that was just on, but verbal still doesn't give us the protections that something in writing does.

I'm not pleased that they have frozen scheduled pay increases in the published payscale. I could understand offering backpay when this is "over", but apparently that is completely off the table as well.

Busdriver91
04-09-2020, 10:42 AM
I know you are extremely worried about losing pay and not having it in writing. I, on the other hand am extremely happy I still have a job and work for a company where the people at the top are sacrificing pay as well. We are at least working less for less pay. I seriously doubt KD is cutting his hours even though he halved his pay.

hdgbug
04-09-2020, 12:02 PM
I know you are extremely worried about losing pay and not having it in writing. I, on the other hand am extremely happy I still have a job and work for a company where the people at the top are sacrificing pay as well. We are at least working less for less pay. I seriously doubt KD is cutting his hours even though he halved his pay.

Being grateful to still have a job is not mutually exclusive to criticising the way things are being handled. Maybe I have just had the unfortunate experience of working for companies that appear to be on the up and up that then turn around and screw over people with loopholes such as this. Those experiences have made me extremely cautious when it comes to word of mouth promises or vague policies. I understand the situation, and understand the changes to schedules and pay. That is why I, too, am thankful to still be working. What I don't understand is why they can put out a polished 26 page communications package (which was clearly not thrown together), in addition to multiple other emails, but can't spell out the effect on our salary. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable request that has fallen on deaf ears.

jbeauv
04-09-2020, 02:00 PM
Being grateful to still have a job is not mutually exclusive to criticising the way things are being handled. Maybe I have just had the unfortunate experience of working for companies that appear to be on the up and up that then turn around and screw over people with loopholes such as this. Those experiences have made me extremely cautious when it comes to word of mouth promises or vague policies. I understand the situation, and understand the changes to schedules and pay. That is why I, too, am thankful to still be working. What I don't understand is why they can put out a polished 26 page communications package (which was clearly not thrown together), in addition to multiple other emails, but can't spell out the effect on our salary. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable request that has fallen on deaf ears.

Was everyoneís questions answered in the conference call?

LLWS09R
04-09-2020, 02:27 PM
Was everyoneís questions answered in the conference call?
I was unable to be on it. Any highlights or cliff notes?

MikeBates
04-09-2020, 03:18 PM
but can't spell out the effect on our salary. That doesn't seem like an unreasonable request that has fallen on deaf ears.

they said that there is a salary freeze. As in wonít go up or down. Right? Just stays the same but working fewer days.

jbeauv
04-09-2020, 04:18 PM
they said that there is a salary freeze. As in wonít go up or down. Right? Just stays the same but working fewer days.

If you have selected the 8/13 subtract .33% from your salary. The salary you are paid is based on a 80 hour pay period, 26 times a year = 2080 hours, take your current salary divide it by 2080 that is your hourly rate (90k = 43.26), now 2080x.33= 686, 2080-686= 1394(1394x43.26= 60,304.00)

Gustafson
04-09-2020, 05:31 PM
Meals Up and Wheels Down?!? Anyone else seeing this?

Allegheny
04-10-2020, 03:57 AM
Dear Wheels up Team,

I am a former GAMA / Wheels Up pilot and got a better offer so I left. (P.S., I paid the balance of my prorated contract off.) My question to those who are currently employed there is how is the company cash and debt level holding? When I left this last summer, there was a great deal of talk about a cash infusion from going public. Almost immediately after I left there was the TMC merger. Then there was the DPJ alingment or codeshare, and the GAMA merger / purchase. I use the words codeshare merger buy-out to describe the consolidation. As Wheels Up is a private company, the normal required public reports are not available. There has to be some debt somewhere in all those activities? Any idea what shape the company is in on a cash burn and debt basis?

Das Auto
04-10-2020, 07:45 AM
Meals Up and Wheels Down?!? Anyone else seeing this?

Its actually a smart move if you look at it from a strategic marketing standpoint. $1 million isn't a huge amount for a company of this size and likely wouldn't buy anywhere near the same kind of publicity and airtime that this will generate.

Das Auto
04-10-2020, 07:59 AM
Dear Wheels up Team,

I am a former GAMA / Wheels Up pilot and got a better offer so I left. (P.S., I paid the balance of my prorated contract off.) My question to those who are currently employed there is how is the company cash and debt level holding? When I left this last summer, there was a great deal of talk about a cash infusion from going public. Almost immediately after I left there was the TMC merger. Then there was the DPJ alingment or codeshare, and the GAMA merger / purchase. I use the words codeshare merger buy-out to describe the consolidation. As Wheels Up is a private company, the normal required public reports are not available. There has to be some debt somewhere in all those activities? Any idea what shape the company is in on a cash burn and debt basis?

I'm guessing that there are only a handful of insiders who really know, but if you look at the big players invested in this operation there are certainly some deep pockets included in the mix. Delta airlines, Franklin Templeton, T. Rowe Price and Fidelity to name a few. Although demand has slowed dramatically there is still a revenue stream from the flights we are operating right now. Those flights along with the cost cutting / schedule reductions etc. should allow the company to tread water until things begin to normalize.
Add the safety net from the CARES act and it looks like the company is in a good position to weather the storm.

MikeBates
04-10-2020, 09:46 AM
If you have selected the 8/13 subtract .33% from your salary. The salary you are paid is based on a 80 hour pay period, 26 times a year = 2080 hours, take your current salary divide it by 2080 that is your hourly rate (90k = 43.26), now 2080x.33= 686, 2080-686= 1394(1394x43.26= 60,304.00)

that seems pretty straightforward. So why all the confusion from the pilot group about salary? Am I missing something? Seems pretty simple to me.

hdgbug
04-10-2020, 01:34 PM
If you have selected the 8/13 subtract .33% from your salary. The salary you are paid is based on a 80 hour pay period, 26 times a year = 2080 hours, take your current salary divide it by 2080 that is your hourly rate (90k = 43.26), now 2080x.33= 686, 2080-686= 1394(1394x43.26= 60,304.00)

that seems pretty straightforward. So why all the confusion from the pilot group about salary? Am I missing something? Seems pretty simple to me.

I'm clearly in the minority on here, so I'll leave my thoughts the topic at this.

I, personally, have no confusion that they have indicated (vaguely in writing and verbally) that they intend to reduce our salary rate by 33% or 50% respective of which reduced schedule we are placed on. While the numbers work out for their intended plan if you divide it by some hourly amount, we are simply not paid on an hourly basis. We are paid a salary, and this is an important distinction. You can confirm this in your ADP account profile where it lists your regular pay rate, a bi-weekly salary. Again, I understand the concept of reducing the salary in return for doing less work, and I understand why the current economics require it.

My confusion is why they are not publishing this in writing so the pilot group has something definite to reference and to hold the company to. Unless they have intentions to attempt to use this loophole they have created for something that would hurt the pilot group, they have no reason not to publish the new rates. I sincerely hope (and honestly do think) they will honor their word and only reduce salaries in the way they have indicated. However, even though having it in writing isn't binding, it only solidifies the protections for the pilot group.

My final thought on the topic is how this reduction relates to the CARES act payroll assistance funds which they are seeking. I'll preface this with I am definitely not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. According to WUPs own handout, the payroll protection portion of the CARES act requires that the company abstain from involuntary furloughs and base pay rate reductions through Sep 30, 2020. As I mentioned above, we are paid on a Salary Basis, which is defined in the labor portion of the CFRs. As I read it, according to those regulations, a key part of being on a salary basis is that the predetermined salary is not adjusted based on the quantity of work performed. According to Department of Labor fact sheets, there are times where a salary can be reduced, and prospectively reducing salary in response to an economic slowdown is permitted. Even still this reduced salary is not dependent on the quantity of work being performed (this is happening to many of my friends in the tech world, same work for less pay).

I do not contend that the company is prohibited from reducing our salaries in general (outside of the CARES act). In fact, at least they are reducing our work AND our salary rather than requiring the same work for less money. What I cannot reconcile is them reducing our pay rate (our salary rate, as confirmed by ADP and CFRs), and taking the CARES act money that prohibits reducing pay rates. This question was brought up by GF in the call yesterday, and he quickly pivoted to something unrelated without providing any details. If they are going to be taking bailout funds that are exclusively for the use of paying salaries (without involuntary furloughs/reductions), it would be wrong for that money not to be used to pay our full salary. Like I said, I'm definitely not an expert on the topic, but it doesn't seem to line up to me. I really hope they will actually address the details on how this works, because right now the optics of taking the money and reducing pay is less than stellar. I know I am not the only one that seeks to understand this apparent discrepancy.

Again for the record, I am thankful for continued employment at whatever rate it ends up being. I certainly have a lot less to complain about than many out there. However, this situation should not let the company off the hook from doing the right thing. Even though I strongly believe the company needs to address some of these concerns, I remind myself to be grateful every day.

jbeauv
04-10-2020, 01:38 PM
that seems pretty straightforward. So why all the confusion from the pilot group about salary? Am I missing something? Seems pretty simple to me.

Keep in mind that I am in no position to affect change at this company. The numbers are just my interpretation with information I have been provided. everyone elseís will very according to your salaries. Regardless of what shows up on your check you will work more hours than what you are paid for. A 12 hour duty day is pretty much standard operating procedure, so on a 8 day tour you work more like 96 hours not the 80 you are paid for. If you want to put that further into perspective, a salaried year is normally based on a 40 work week that totals out to be 2080 hrs, for us before the cuts, the numbers look like this: 8 day tour @12 hrs a day (8*12=96) 26 pay periods (96*26= 2496) You can subtract 80 hrs for vacation to reduce it to 2416, so on average that is what you work to earn your current salary. They are going to reduce that by .33% To make it 8/13 or get paid for 1374 hrs but will be on duty 1592 hrs.

USMCFLYR
04-10-2020, 02:06 PM
hdgbug-

Your pay system sounds exactly like my federal pay system.

i am also a salaried employee. That salary is based on a 40 hr work work week, 80 hr pay check twice a month which all works out to an HOURLY rate based on the 2080 paid hrs per year like another poster said. My overtime pay and training pay and night differential and all other special pay rates are based on a percentage of my hourly pay. You can look up GS pay scales and then listed as either yearly salary or hourly rate.

Just throwing all of this out there because in your post you said ď While the numbers work out for their intended plan if you divide it by some hourly amount, we are simply not paid on an hourly basis. We are paid a salary, and this is an important distinction. You can confirm this in your ADP account profile where it lists your regular pay rate, a bi-weekly salaryĒ and it just seemed to me that you didnít think a person could be salaried, yet have that salary based on an hourly rate.

As far as pay protection with the CARES Act goes, not sure about that.
i talked to one of my friends at a United last night and he is sitting at home for the next two months at 2/3rds pay and he believes United has either taken the funds or plans to take the funds so it doesnít seem like they will be getting FULL PAY either during this time till Oct 1st. They (and you) arenít furloughed, but pay reduced for less hours worked.

Good luck in the situation in any case. Hang tough.

jbeauv - Your point on a 12 hr work day is correct. In my case I have a 14 hr duty day possible per P135 refs but my pay duty day is 8.5 hrs. If I work past my pay duty day, I started collecting OT. On the other hand, if my plane breaks at lunch, well Iím still on duty for the rest of the day. How does that work for you? Are you released from duty in the middle of the day and maybe only worked 4 hrs that particular day?

jbeauv
04-10-2020, 03:00 PM
hdgbug-

Your pay system sounds exactly like my federal pay system.

i am also a salaried employee. That salary is based on a 40 hr work work week, 80 hr pay check twice a month which all works out to an HOURLY rate based on the 2080 paid hrs per year like another poster said. My overtime pay and training pay and night differential and all other special pay rates are based on a percentage of my hourly pay. You can look up GS pay scales and then listed as either yearly salary or hourly rate.

Just throwing all of this out there because in your post you said ď While the numbers work out for their intended plan if you divide it by some hourly amount, we are simply not paid on an hourly basis. We are paid a salary, and this is an important distinction. You can confirm this in your ADP account profile where it lists your regular pay rate, a bi-weekly salaryĒ and it just seemed to me that you didnít think a person could be salaried, yet have that salary based on an hourly rate.

As far as pay protection with the CARES Act goes, not sure about that.
i talked to one of my friends at a United last night and he is sitting at home for the next two months at 2/3rds pay and he believes United has either taken the funds or plans to take the funds so it doesnít seem like they will be getting FULL PAY either during this time till Oct 1st. They (and you) arenít furloughed, but pay reduced for less hours worked.

Good luck in the situation in any case. Hang tough.

jbeauv - Your point on a 12 hr work day is correct. In my case I have a 14 hr duty day possible per P135 refs but my pay duty day is 8.5 hrs. If I work past my pay duty day, I started collecting OT. On the other hand, if my plane breaks at lunch, well Iím still on duty for the rest of the day. How does that work for you? Are you released from duty in the middle of the day and maybe only worked 4 hrs that particular day?

It is rare that we are released, but it has happened on occasion. Example lets say I am sent to the hotel at 17L and we receive 0000z duty off, so we are still on duty until 20:00L, by company policy you canít even have a beer with dinner unless you wait to eat until duty off time. There are good days here, the ones that donít like it are usually gone by the first summer, it can be brutal in the summer the duty days can be more like 13.5/14 with min rest, do that for 8 straight days and it can be a butt kicker. We do not make overtime unless there is a call for volunteer overtime, it is paid at a daily rate sometimes as high as 1500.00 a day and they usually want at least 2 days from you. I through the hourly rate in there just others could compare what they make, say vs a regional Captain or FO. We have lost some good people here to NJ and FJ because of how the pay is spelled out at those companies. I would like to see improvements to the QOL here, especially since the pilots are the ďwheelsĒ in WUP but it seems we are the ones being asked to give the most.

aharrin1
04-11-2020, 01:38 PM
this is all interesting conversation especially considering Iím at the TMC side of things. It would be a pretty cruddy move to send me out on the road 33% less and I get paid 33% less while GAMA guys are sitting at home getting paid the same. Maybe I should give up the jet and go fly the King Air ;-) in any case, in the conference call, the point that was made very clear was that this was an across the board joint sacrifice to protect peopleís jobs from furlough. Hopefully in 120 days this will all be behind us.

NagsHead
04-11-2020, 04:12 PM
this is all interesting conversation especially considering Iím at the TMC side of things. It would be a pretty cruddy move to send me out on the road 33% less and I get paid 33% less while GAMA guys are sitting at home getting paid the same. Maybe I should give up the jet and go fly the King Air ;-) in any case, in the conference call, the point that was made very clear was that this was an across the board joint sacrifice to protect peopleís jobs from furlough. Hopefully in 120 days this will all be behind us.

What are the latest and greatest updates regards, are all pilots flying at TMC or cut back and some no flying similar to WU? Any word on time frame for resuming interviews etc? It's been quiet on tmc blog.....

thanks

jetpirate
04-14-2020, 06:49 AM
So wheels up pilots take a pay cut while the company "launch meals up covid-19 response."

Hmm, Im all for helping those in need. Seems to me you have to feed your family first though.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2020-04-07/wheels-launches-meals-covid-19-response

Busdriver91
04-14-2020, 07:45 AM
So wheels up pilots take a pay cut while the company "launch meals up covid-19 response."

Hmm, Im all for helping those in need. Seems to me you have to feed your family first though.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2020-04-07/wheels-launches-meals-covid-19-response

gets your facts straight. The money from meals up is coming from our member ambassadors. Jeff Bazos also made a large donation.

jetpirate
04-14-2020, 10:38 AM
Got it, That makes more sense. Good on ya for helping out those in need.

BuddhaPilot73
04-15-2020, 09:46 AM
I didnít get to dial into the telecon yesterday since Iím in recurrent. Any updates or interesting news?

jbeauv
04-16-2020, 06:16 AM
I didnít get to dial into the telecon yesterday since Iím in recurrent. Any updates or interesting news?

not much, kind of sounded like they wanted more pilots to take the 120 or 8/20.

flyingagain
04-16-2020, 08:04 AM
not much, kind of sounded like they wanted more pilots to take the 120 or 8/20.

I know one guy who applied for the 8/20 but was given the 8/13.

EMAW
04-16-2020, 08:32 AM
I know one guy who applied for the 8/20 but was given the 8/13.

They got more requests for the LOA and the 8/20 than they planned for. Adjusted for schedule coverage.

BuddhaPilot73
04-16-2020, 01:48 PM
They got more requests for the LOA and the 8/20 than they planned for. Adjusted for schedule coverage.

Thats what Iím hearing as well. Thereís probably a lot of relief that there were pilots willing and/or able to take 120 days unpaid. For theirs and everyone elseís sake, I hope it doesnít end up being that long.

Das Auto
04-16-2020, 03:21 PM
Kudos to the guys that took the leave. It's good to see those who don't need to work taking a step back so those that do, can.

I'll be buying those guys a beer when this all blows over. Even if the barstools are spaced 6 ft apart!

MikeBates
04-16-2020, 06:23 PM
Kudos to the guys that took the leave. It's good to see those who don't need to work taking a step back so those that do, can.

I'll be buying those guys a beer when this all blows over. Even if the barstools are spaced 6 ft apart!

what a guy! (Or gal)

Busdriver91
04-16-2020, 07:13 PM
Kudos to the guys that took the leave. It's good to see those who don't need to work taking a step back so those that do, can.

I'll be buying those guys a beer when this all blows over. Even if the barstools are spaced 6 ft apart!

100% agreed!

LLWS09R
04-16-2020, 07:16 PM
Kudos to the guys that took the leave. It's good to see those who don't need to work taking a step back so those that do, can.

I'll be buying those guys a beer when this all blows over. Even if the barstools are spaced 6 ft apart!
No worries! Keep some of us up to date on company info as my and it appears most others who took the leave are locked out out company email.

Gustafson
04-18-2020, 06:48 PM
Has anyone attempted to claim underemployment on the 8/13 due to the reduction of hours?

siuaviation
04-18-2020, 07:16 PM
Has anyone attempted to claim underemployment on the 8/13 due to the reduction of hours?

Yes, I filed my unemployment claim for underemployment this past week. Iím on the 8/13. I should be hearing back this week regarding approval/denial. I have friends who were approved for underemployment, non-pilots, so Iím hoping Iíll get approved. I live in Illinois.

Das Auto
04-19-2020, 07:17 PM
what a guy! (Or gal)

Just checked and Iím definitely a guy!

On the subject of reduced schedules, I just read that MBA players are about to get their pay reduced by 25%. Those poor guys. I hope they donít go hungry. Must be terrible for them.

MikeBates
04-20-2020, 03:33 PM
Just checked and Iím definitely a guy!

On the subject of reduced schedules, I just read that MBA players are about to get their pay reduced by 25%. Those poor guys. I hope they donít go hungry. Must be terrible for them.


you mean NBA?

Das Auto
04-20-2020, 07:44 PM
you mean NBA?

Ha ha. Yes. We're all taking a 33% or 50% salary reduction for a 33% or 50% schedule reduction and these guys get a 25% salary reduction for a 100% schedule reduction.

I chose the wrong profession.

pixelflying
04-20-2020, 08:40 PM
Ha ha. Yes. We're all taking a 33% or 50% salary reduction for a 33% or 50% schedule reduction and these guys get a 25% salary reduction for a 100% schedule reduction.

I chose the wrong profession.

This one is easier on the knees.

jonnyjetprop
04-21-2020, 04:39 AM
Just checked and Iím definitely a guy!

On the subject of reduced schedules, I just read that MBA players are about to get their pay reduced by 25%. Those poor guys. I hope they donít go hungry. Must be terrible for them.

This is the same exact reason why few care when airline pilots get their contracts gutted and pay reduced. Those poor guys. I hope they donít go hungry. Must be terrible for them.

Das Auto
04-21-2020, 05:09 AM
This is the same exact reason why few care when airline pilots get their contracts gutted and pay reduced. Those poor guys. I hope they donít go hungry. Must be terrible for them.

Apples to oranges. Last time I checked the airlines don't get huge sums of money from discretionary spending revenue streams such as direct tv etc.
The way the story was presented irritated me . People were worrying about how they're going to meet their financial obligations but don't worry, the sports team took a 25% pay cut. That should make everyone feel better.
Who was the guy that touched all the microphones at the news conference then tested positive for Covid? That guy is real genius.

StainRJDriver
04-21-2020, 08:13 AM
This is the same exact reason why few care when airline pilots get their contracts gutted and pay reduced. Those poor guys. I hope they donít go hungry. Must be terrible for them.

You sound like a bitter, jealous and uneducated guy who either missed his opportunity in the airlines or just flat out couldnít cut it...

ratcht9
04-21-2020, 08:48 AM
You sound like a bitter, jealous and uneducated guy who either missed his opportunity in the airlines or just flat out couldnít cut it...
That looks like a bit of a mis-read. He may very well have been with the airlines, or is with the airlines, or continues to have the potential to go to the airlines. His point being, people look at airline pilots, and having no idea how tough it really is to get to that career stage, seem to think airline pilots are making money hand-over-fist and have infinite resources to remain worry-free whenever work shuts down.

USMCFLYR
04-21-2020, 02:46 PM
You sound like a bitter, jealous and uneducated guy who either missed his opportunity in the airlines or just flat out couldnít cut it...

And you missed the fact that he was referring to the general population I believe - and I can see where he is coming from in his post.

Signed - a guy who has never even applied to the airlines because I guess I just couldn't cut it (but I least I have reading comprehension)!

Das Auto - you and I are often on the same page and I understand what you are trying to say; but with so many losing so much right now - it is hard for some to hear that the United pilot just went to 2/3rds pay for two months sitting at home (especially when that 2/3rds pay is still so many times more than they are making in a good year much less with their business closed down)

NOT for the NBA guys >G<, but a little sympathy all around and a little more understanding from all would help in these times.

Das Auto
04-21-2020, 09:00 PM
And you missed the fact that he was referring to the general population I believe - and I can see where he is coming from in his post.

Signed - a guy who has never even applied to the airlines because I guess I just couldn't cut it (but I least I have reading comprehension)!

Das Auto - you and I are often on the same page and I understand what you are trying to say; but with so many losing so much right now - it is hard for some to hear that the United pilot just went to 2/3rds pay for two months sitting at home (especially when that 2/3rds pay is still so many times more than they are making in a good year much less with their business closed down)

NOT for the NBA guys >G<, but a little sympathy all around and a little more understanding from all would help in these times.

I really feel for the 10 year expressjet F.O who never broke six figures but finally got hired by a major airline, then this happens. The huge cost and debt incurred from learning to fly and college education (for the majority that have a degree) certainly warrant the kind of frustration that Johnny jet prop and others feel the need to vent.
Someone once told me that a career in aviation is similar to a career in acting. Sure, some go all the way and make huge sums of money (Brad Pitt meets FedEx captain) but the majority don't go that far.

Regardless, I don't have much sympathy for someone who used to make $60,000,000 a year but now only makes $45,000,000 a year because they can no longer move a ball from one end of a field or court to the other in the name of entertainment.

In no way was that a comparison to the airlines on my part and I'm still baffled as to how some came to that conclusion.

USMCFLYR
04-22-2020, 02:25 AM
I really feel for the 10 year expressjet F.O who never broke six figures but finally got hired by a major airline, then this happens. The huge cost and debt incurred from learning to fly and college education (for the majority that have a degree) certainly warrant the kind of frustration that Johnny jet prop and others feel the need to vent.
Someone once told me that a career in aviation is similar to a career in acting. Sure, some go all the way and make huge sums of money (Brad Pitt meets FedEx captain) but the majority don't go that far.

Regardless, I don't have much sympathy for someone who used to make $60,000,000 a year but now only makes $45,000,000 a year because they can no longer move a ball from one end of a field or court to the other in the name of entertainment.

In no way was that a comparison to the airlines on my part and I'm still baffled as to how some came to that conclusion.
Because my friend working at Firestone 6 days a week in the non-environmentally controlled garage on commission doesnít really care if the numbers are $30 million or $300,000.

Das Auto
04-22-2020, 06:12 AM
Because my friend working at Firestone 6 days a week in the non-environmentally controlled garage on commission doesnít really care if the numbers are $30 million or $300,000.

Well itís all relative I guess. The guy living in a hut in India watching his kids starve doesnít really care that your friend at Firestone is low on commission because people are staying at home.

MikeBates
04-22-2020, 07:03 AM
Well itís all relative I guess. The guy living in a hut in India watching his kids starve doesnít really care that your friend at Firestone is low on commission because people are staying at home.

bingo. All wealth is relative. The socialist who shames the G600 owner for spending money on a jet instead of giving it to the poor ought to remember that when they buy their next iPhone/TV/PC/Labradoodle/Car/Tall Latte. Because the socialist is to the guy in the hut just as the G600 owner is to the socialist.

jonnyjetprop
04-22-2020, 07:46 AM
Clearly I miscommunicated my message. Yes, I'm an airline pilot and basically what this poster and USMCFLYR said.


That looks like a bit of a mis-read. He may very well have been with the airlines, or is with the airlines, or continues to have the potential to go to the airlines. His point being, people look at airline pilots, and having no idea how tough it really is to get to that career stage, seem to think airline pilots are making money hand-over-fist and have infinite resources to remain worry-free whenever work shuts down.

USMCFLYR
04-22-2020, 11:11 AM
Well itís all relative I guess. The guy living in a hut in India watching his kids starve doesnít really care that your friend at Firestone is low on commission because people are staying at home.

Yep...exactly correct.

johnnyjetprop - guess it could go each way. Either you miscommunicated your message (says one), or your communication was misunderstood (says two)

JRSK
04-23-2020, 03:14 AM
Just checking FlightAware and there are NO GAJís in the air at 7am.... Hoping the reopen here in Georgia goes well and business starts to perk again.


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Das Auto
04-23-2020, 11:32 AM
Just checking FlightAware and there are NO GAJís in the air at 7am.... Hoping the reopen here in Georgia goes well and business starts to perk again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

9 in the air right now as of 12.30pm West coast. A trickle compared to this time a month ago but still revenue nonetheless. I flew out to the East coast on a A321 last tour. Myself and 5 others in 1st class with a grand total of around 20 in the back. The ticket was $200. They must he hemorrhaging money at that rate. I read Delta is burning through $100 million day.

MikeBates
04-23-2020, 09:58 PM
Any new communications from the top for those of us in the LOA cone of silence?

jbeauv
04-24-2020, 06:03 AM
Any new communications from the top for those of us in the LOA cone of silence?

I was surprised this week, no all call conference.

hdgbug
04-26-2020, 05:04 PM
TMC/DPJ pilots - how is seniority a factor at your operators and is there a published seniority list?

UndrPar
04-27-2020, 06:25 AM
I saw DPJ is currently advertising for pilots. Does anyone know if they are hiring pilots for an applicant pool for down the road needs, or if they are actively bringing pilots in and training them?

Beech Dude
04-29-2020, 12:11 PM
I saw DPJ is currently advertising for pilots. Does anyone know if they are hiring pilots for an applicant pool for down the road needs, or if they are actively bringing pilots in and training them?

Direct from head of HR that they are hiring into a pool and are taking apps. No May or June classes. Good luck

UndrPar
04-29-2020, 03:12 PM
Direct from head of HR that they are hiring into a pool and are taking apps. No May or June classes. Good luck

Thanks Beech! I appreciate it!

SrfNFly227
04-29-2020, 05:40 PM
Direct from head of HR that they are hiring into a pool and are taking apps. No May or June classes. Good luck

Where did you hear no May or June classes? I am in the pool (interviewed in mid March) and we get a weekly call giving us updates. I was told yesterday that they are still hoping for June.

Starbucks
04-29-2020, 06:27 PM
Where did you hear no May or June classes? I am in the pool (interviewed in mid March) and we get a weekly call giving us updates. I was told yesterday that they are still hoping for June.
I'm not sure I would trust that. Several pilots on leave until August and the remainder are on reduced schedules until then. I can't believe they would run any class while asking a portion of their pilot group to take unpaid leave at the same time. Hopefully this all clears up sooner rather than later.

SrfNFly227
04-30-2020, 03:19 AM
I'm not sure I would trust that. Several pilots on leave until August and the remainder are on reduced schedules until then. I can't believe they would run any class while asking a portion of their pilot group to take unpaid leave at the same time. Hopefully this all clears up sooner rather than later.

June seems a little optimistic to me as well. That said, how long is the training footprint from day of hire to signed off on the line? I would think a mid June start would line up well if they really are planning to be back at full capacity in August. New hires would hit the line right about the time (or slightly after) the established crews are back to the normal schedule.

Starbucks
04-30-2020, 06:18 AM
June seems a little optimistic to me as well. That said, how long is the training footprint from day of hire to signed off on the line? I would think a mid June start would line up well if they really are planning to be back at full capacity in August. New hires would hit the line right about the time (or slightly after) the established crews are back to the normal schedule.
I don't know. It's my feeling that they're doing pretty well by the pilot group as in how they are handling the fallout from this thus far. I just can't see them bringing in new hires on the payroll while we still have many on a LOA and reduced schedule / pay. Again this is just my opinion and hopefully everything spools up for WUP quickly.

Beech Dude
04-30-2020, 05:51 PM
Where did you hear no May or June classes? I am in the pool (interviewed in mid March) and we get a weekly call giving us updates. I was told yesterday that they are still hoping for June.

D.H., head of HR hiring said it during her presentation at the FAPA virtual job fair on the 29th.

Gundriver64
05-01-2020, 07:04 AM
9 in the air right now as of 12.30pm West coast. A trickle compared to this time a month ago but still revenue nonetheless. I flew out to the East coast on a A321 last tour. Myself and 5 others in 1st class with a grand total of around 20 in the back. The ticket was $200. They must he hemorrhaging money at that rate. I read Delta is burning through $100 million day.

This time, one year ago: what would be the average number of flights in the air (swag guestimate)?

JRSK
05-01-2020, 04:02 PM
From the TSA site:

Total Traveler Throughput yesterday was: 154,695, one year ago same day was: 2,499,461
Not flight numbers, but a decent measure of how busy the industry is and was...


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stang
05-02-2020, 05:53 AM
Where did you hear no May or June classes? I am in the pool (interviewed in mid March) and we get a weekly call giving us updates. I was told yesterday that they are still hoping for June.

Which hiring pool? I am in the DPJ pool and don't get a weekly call. Was told June or July is the new target time frame. Granted, I fully understand it is totally unknown until demand necessitates. I will be pleasantly surprised if I am in a class by end of July, or at all.

SrfNFly227
05-03-2020, 11:38 AM
Which hiring pool? I am in the DPJ pool and don't get a weekly call. Was told June or July is the new target time frame. Granted, I fully understand it is totally unknown until demand necessitates. I will be pleasantly surprised if I am in a class by end of July, or at all.

Wheels Up pool.

EMAW
05-03-2020, 04:38 PM
Wheels Up pool.

So GAMA? Cause Wheels Up doesn’t hire pilots yet as far as I know? But maybe I’m behind.

I guess I should elaborate. Right now the certificates are still separate, Gama, TMC, and DPJ. So which one did you apply to?

SrfNFly227
05-03-2020, 05:24 PM
So GAMA? Cause Wheels Up doesnít hire pilots yet as far as I know? But maybe Iím behind.

I guess I should elaborate. Right now the certificates are still separate, Gama, TMC, and DPJ. So which one did you apply to?

Semantics much? I am in the pool to fly the white and blue King Airs with Up written in big letters on the tail.

But yes, I guess I should have said Gama.

EMAW
05-03-2020, 06:06 PM
Semantics much? I am in the pool to fly the white and blue King Airs with Up written in big letters on the tail.

But yes, I guess I should have said Gama.

Yes because semantics matter. Up until a few months ago Wheels Up didnít even come close to employing pilots, it was made very clear that we did not work for Wheels Up.
BTW welcome to GAMA. Make sure you know your stuff when you hit OE.

bgiles99
05-04-2020, 06:13 AM
Wheels Up pool.


Pm sent


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Das Auto
05-04-2020, 10:27 AM
Last week was relatively busy all things considered. Very encouraging.

Positiveg
05-08-2020, 04:01 PM
If given the opportunity to fly for either DPJ or Gama, assuming class dates are relatively close to each other, which one would you guys recommend? Would the recent purchase of DPJ factor into your decision?

EMAW
05-08-2020, 05:08 PM
If given the opportunity to fly for either DPJ or Gama, assuming class dates are relatively close to each other, which one would you guys recommend? Would the recent purchase of DPJ factor into your decision?

Entirely subjective. Making a career of it or trying to build time quickly? Experience?

Positiveg
05-08-2020, 05:42 PM
Entirely subjective. Making a career of it or trying to build time quickly? Experience?

Still relatively inexperienced (pretty much at the minimum required to be hired) but looking mostly for QOL and stability in these uncertain times. Eventually might want to go to a major, but plan on being at either company for 3-5 years. What would you say one offers over the other?

EMAW
05-08-2020, 06:36 PM
Still relatively inexperienced (pretty much at the minimum required to be hired) but looking mostly for QOL and stability in these uncertain times. Eventually might want to go to a major, but plan on being at either company for 3-5 years. What would you say one offers over the other?

Youíre in the wrong profession for stability. 😂 But really, either one would be good. If you want a lot of great hrs of experience, the Gama KingAirs are the bread and butter of the fleet. Tons of short, remote strips all over the country.

SrfNFly227
05-12-2020, 02:22 AM
Weekly update call came yesterday. Gama has put off all new hire classes for Wheels Up until September. They want to get the LOA pilots and reduced pilots back on line before bringing in anybody new.

MikeBates
05-12-2020, 09:09 AM
Weekly update call came yesterday.

any other info?

Gundriver64
05-12-2020, 09:40 AM
Weekly update call came yesterday. Gama has put off all new hire classes for Wheels Up until September. They want to get the LOA pilots and reduced pilots back on line before bringing in anybody new.

Makes economic sense.

stang
05-14-2020, 07:05 PM
Weekly update call came yesterday. Gama has put off all new hire classes for Wheels Up until September. They want to get the LOA pilots and reduced pilots back on line before bringing in anybody new.


How about on the DPJ side? I fully anticipate it will be sept or later there. June / July seemed optimistic which is what I was given being hired into the pool

VandalF16
05-14-2020, 08:40 PM
How about on the DPJ side? I fully anticipate it will be sept or later there. June / July seemed optimistic which is what I was given being hired into the pool

I think Sept or later is likely. Even if demand comes back to their business at 100% of pre-COVID levels, there wonít be any attrition. They said that they normally lose 5 pilots/month to the majors, and hire to fill those holes. If no majors are hiring, I doubt they will need to hire anytime soon unless their business starts booming and they decide to expand beyond pre-COVID levels. Itís a relatively young pilot group, so you canít count on a meaningful number of retirements.

jbeauv
05-15-2020, 04:38 AM
This email came out today, if anybody is interested, I know there might be some folks on the 120 LWOP.

Looking for volunteers to work with Gamaís Integration Chairman, and similar representatives from TMC and DPJ. There will be a PIC and a SIC line pilot from each Gama fleet, plus alternate (pic/sic) working with line pilots and Chairmen from the other 2 companies. The committee will be facilitated by a legal team; Wheels Up is their client. The group of pilots on the committee will be integral in helping Wheels Up management come to a uniform system for pay, benefits and other terms of employment.

B727DRVR
05-15-2020, 05:33 AM
This email came out today, if anybody is interested, I know there might be some folks on the 120 LWOP.

Looking for volunteers to work with Gamaís Integration Chairman, and similar representatives from TMC and DPJ. There will be a PIC and a SIC line pilot from each Gama fleet, plus alternate (pic/sic) working with line pilots and Chairmen from the other 2 companies. The committee will be facilitated by a legal team; Wheels Up is their client. The group of pilots on the committee will be integral in helping Wheels Up management come to a uniform system for pay, benefits and other terms of employment.

That's great news! Everyone will be on a level playing field, so no envies to mess up the camaraderie! The next question would be whether you all can move around in the WUP system, i.e., a DPJ or TMC pilot that lives where the King Air frequents, but the jets don't.... could one of those pilots move to the King Air? Or vice verso?

Diesel8
05-15-2020, 05:57 AM
What email? Nothing on the DPJ side.

EMAW
05-15-2020, 06:20 AM
What email? Nothing on the DPJ side.

I didnít get one from GAMA either, but my pilot supervisor forwarded us the one he got.

MikeBates
05-15-2020, 07:05 AM
Whoever is on that committee, kill and replace our crap health insurance, please.

all my familyís medical events have been billed back to us because our providers donít know how to work with AMwins/IHP2/whatever their name is. I have to submit each claim myself and act as go between for my provider and AMwins.

Das Auto
05-15-2020, 11:40 AM
The health insurance is actually very good. The problem is persuading the girl behind the desk that her office does in fact accept it. It usually takes a call from the health insurance company before they understand what theyíre dealing with. It is frustrating for sure but the plan itself is very generous compared to others Iíve seen.

Iím hoping that weíre able to negotiate more vacation time and a better 401k match per years served on the Gama side. Iíve always said this is a great job but severely lacking when it comes to longevity incentives. This could make it a career destination. The way things are going in the industry most of us may be here a while regardless.

jbeauv
05-15-2020, 01:35 PM
The health insurance is actually very good. The problem is persuading the girl behind the desk that her office does in fact accept it. It usually takes a call from the health insurance company before they understand what theyíre dealing with. It is frustrating for sure but the plan itself is very generous compared to others Iíve seen.

Iím hoping that weíre able to negotiate more vacation time and a better 401k match per years served on the Gama side. Iíve always said this is a great job but severely lacking when it comes to longevity incentives. This could make it a career destination. The way things are going in the industry most of us may be here a while regardless.

I have had a 50/50 experience with the health insurance, the process requires quite a bit of leg work on our side. Multiple phone calls to AMWINs to resolve billing issues, pay close attention to your EOBís. Just because you fill out the DR nomination form does not put them in ďnetworkĒ, there is patient responsibility block that gets applied to your deductible, 250.00 out of pocket without the co-pay, they could do better.

jbeauv
05-15-2020, 01:41 PM
Did everyone receive the email about honoring veterans on Memorial Day?

Das Auto
05-22-2020, 05:41 PM
Yes, I filed my unemployment claim for underemployment this past week. Iím on the 8/13. I should be hearing back this week regarding approval/denial. I have friends who were approved for underemployment, non-pilots, so Iím hoping Iíll get approved. I live in Illinois.

Has anyone else had any luck with this?

siuaviation
05-22-2020, 07:09 PM
Has anyone else had any luck with this?

My claim was approved, BTW, and Iíve been getting the maximum state weekly benefits along with the additional $600/week from the federal government. Iím on the 8/13 schedule and live in Illinois.

250kt Final
05-22-2020, 07:20 PM
My claim was approved, BTW, and Iíve been getting the maximum state weekly benefits along with the additional $600/week from the federal government. Iím on the 8/13 schedule and live in Illinois.

Granted every state is different are you making more money, less or about the same with your slashed salary plus underemployment benefits compared to your normal 8/6 WU salary.

Diesel8
05-22-2020, 07:47 PM
My claim was approved, BTW, and Iíve been getting the maximum state weekly benefits along with the additional $600/week from the federal government. Iím on the 8/13 schedule and live in Illinois.
Who are you with? DPJ told us that we had to file with Kentucky for unemployment. Nothing has been said about underemployment. The 8/13 pay is dismal.

siuaviation
05-22-2020, 08:49 PM
Granted every state is different are you making more money, less or about the same with your slashed salary plus underemployment benefits compared to your normal 8/6 WU salary.

Iím a First Officer so Iím actually making more with unemployment/underemployment than my 8/6 salary.

siuaviation
05-22-2020, 08:54 PM
Who are you with? DPJ told us that we had to file with Kentucky for unemployment. Nothing has been said about underemployment. The 8/13 pay is dismal.

Iím with Gama. Illinois has underemployment benefits during this time. I filed a normal unemployment claim and there is an option to select if youíre currently employed full time but your hours/pay has been temporarily reduced.

Diesel8
05-23-2020, 06:01 AM
I'm in the same boat. Last year left a 121 gig that I was for 17 years pushing heavy metal across the skies. As I am bumping up against my built in decrepitude date for 121 ops figured I would shift a little earlier to 135 so that I could work past that date and establish myself in a new company. Took a huge pay cut, figured (and was told) I would upgrade quick. Now I am stuck making FO wages on partial pay with little to no opportunities for upgrade. Should have stayed where I was, as I would still be making full pay.

Yes, I am RAC I guess, but I was working at a bottom feeder ACMI outfit. I work hard at the new job

hdgbug
05-23-2020, 12:31 PM
Has anyone heard anything about potentially bringing people back from reduced schedules early? I know I worked my a** off during my last tour and I know I'm not the only one on the blue/white tails. I was busier than a normal busy summer tour. How busy is it on the DPJ and TMC tails?

jbeauv
05-23-2020, 02:45 PM
Has anyone heard anything about potentially bringing people back from reduced schedules early? I know I worked my a** off during my last tour and I know I'm not the only one on the blue/white tails. I was busier than a normal busy summer tour. How busy is it on the DPJ and TMC tails?

Flew 4 legs Thursday, two of them brand new customers, WUP rep showed up for one and told us that WUP did 90 flights The day before. They do not have enough crews now to cover AOGís.

hdgbug
05-23-2020, 03:27 PM
Flew 4 legs Thursday, two of them brand new customers, WUP rep showed up for one and told us that WUP did 90 flights The day before. They do not have enough crews now to cover AOGís.

Half my flights last week were new members, and we had several days turn into long ones recovering AOGs. If we are pushing 90 flights a day, based on what I remember KD saying in the last call, we must be getting close to 75% of normal. Time to bring everyone who wants to return to 8/6 back!!

On a side note, I think they should keep the 8/13 schedule around and let a certain percentage of crews bid it for portions of the year. Keep the percentage small like the 52-day schedule at Netjets. 4 bid periods a year would let you transition on and off the 8/13 with no weird tours. I could see it going senior sometimes and junior others. I know I'd love an option to drop down to a reduced schedule at times!

Busdriver91
05-23-2020, 04:48 PM
Half my flights last week were new members, and we had several days turn into long ones recovering AOGs. If we are pushing 90 flights a day, based on what I remember KD saying in the last call, we must be getting close to 75% of normal. Time to bring everyone who wants to return to 8/6 back!!

On a side note, I think they should keep the 8/13 schedule around and let a certain percentage of crews bid it for portions of the year. Keep the percentage small like the 52-day schedule at Netjets. 4 bid periods a year would let you transition on and off the 8/13 with no weird tours. I could see it going senior sometimes and junior others. I know I'd love an option to drop down to a reduced schedule at times!

I 100% agree with keeping the 8/13 schedule around even after things go back to normal. In my current situation with no childcare options and the wife having a job, 8/13 actually works out better for me until the kid goes back to school.

I also remember some guys, especially retired airline guys, expressing a desire for some kind of part time option.

UndrPar
05-23-2020, 05:18 PM
Flew 4 legs Thursday, two of them brand new customers, WUP rep showed up for one and told us that WUP did 90 flights The day before. They do not have enough crews now to cover AOG’s.

Sorry for needing some explanation but correct me if i'm wrong... from what I am seeing is WUP offered 8/13 instead of the 8/6 as things slowed down. Did DPJ do the same thing or has everyone at DPJ been keeping their normal schedule? I ask this because I was recently hired on to DPJ and really looking forward to getting started there, but with the COVID turndown I completely understand if I have to wait awhile. Just trying to get a figure if I need to be looking for crews to go back to full strength before they bring newhires in for training, or if they are already at full strength and are awaiting on bringing newhires in due to government restrictions with the amount of people in one location? The person I spoke with was unable to give me a timeframe when training might start. Thanks!

jbeauv
05-23-2020, 05:27 PM
Sorry for needing some explanation but correct me if i'm wrong... from what I am seeing is WUP offered 8/13 instead of the 8/6 as things slowed down. Did DPJ do the same thing or has everyone at DPJ been keeping their normal schedule? I ask this because I was recently hired on to DPJ and really looking forward to getting started there, but with the COVID turndown I completely understand if I have to wait awhile. Just trying to get a figure if I need to be looking for crews to go back to full strength before they bring newhires in for training, or if they are already at full strength and are awaiting on bringing newhires in due to government restrictions with the amount of people in one location? The person I spoke with was unable to give me a timeframe when training might start. Thanks!

Gama, DPJ, TMC were all on the same conference call, so I would say yes same schedules

Diesel8
05-23-2020, 09:59 PM
DPJ went from a 8/6 to either a 8/13, 8/20, or a 120 day LOA. No one to my knowledge is on a 8/6 schedule. Don't know the state of the trips, or how busy they are. Did two 8/13's. One trip was quite busy, the other was not.

UndrPar
05-24-2020, 03:49 AM
Gama, DPJ, TMC were all on the same conference call, so I would say yes same schedules

DPJ went from a 8/6 to either a 8/13, 8/20, or a 120 day LOA. No one to my knowledge is on a 8/6 schedule. Don't know the state of the trips, or how busy they are. Did two 8/13's. One trip was quite busy, the other was not.

Thanks! So safe to say new hire training for DPJ won't be starting for a while then with people out on LOA and on reduced trips. I appreciate the info!

goingplaces
05-26-2020, 09:59 AM
interested to hear what tomorrows call has to offer

MikeBates
05-27-2020, 09:19 AM
:( I guess there was a call today. Any bullet points to share?

hdgbug
05-27-2020, 09:24 AM
:( I guess there was a call today. Any bullet points to share?

Still selling lots of memberships/renewals at roughly the same rate as the last couple months.

Demand slowly, steadily returning. But did not offer any numbers to back that up.

They made a comment that seemed to indicate that we were using our "safety vetted partners" a bunch right now. I had a hard time understanding that part of the call, but it left me wondering if we are farming out flights above our reduced capacity to a third party instead of bringing our own crews back.

Update on the crew integration process, but they didn't really offer any details on the call other than announcing the panel lead for each company.

Still working on CARES act loans.

Diesel8
05-27-2020, 12:24 PM
"safety vetted partners"

This phrase was used in a thread running on the Fractional Board.

the safety-vetted XO Preferred Operator Network grants access to 2,100+ aircraft worldwide, covering the full spectrum of cabin classes.

Interesting. Maybe a bit of quid pro quo using aircraft that are either in position or closer to a departure point?

hdgbug
05-27-2020, 09:33 PM
This phrase was used in a thread running on the Fractional Board.



Interesting. Maybe a bit of quid pro quo using aircraft that are either in position or closer to a departure point?

I saw the XO article and noticed the same use of the term. However, as far as I know XO and WUP do not utilize each other. WUP historically uses what I would loosely call "smaller" operators, like Mountain Aviation and FlyExclusive, as supplemental lift when demand surpasses availability or a member wants a different class or type of aircraft for a specific purpose.

Trust me, it has nothing to do with closer to departure point! I need at least two hands to count the long range repositions to places that other operators had to have closer planes available.

hdgbug
05-28-2020, 07:06 AM
:( I guess there was a call today. Any bullet points to share?

One more to add. They made it a point to tell everyone that the members are aware of the COVID response procedures and that they are complaining to WUP when the crews are not following them. They were specific that they have received complaints about crews not wearing masks or taking precautions such as covering coughs.

I'm not looking to start a debate about the effectiveness of masks. It doesn't really matter because the company has mandated that masks are worn around members. Just treat it like a part of your uniform and wear the mask they provided! If it makes our members feel better and more likely to fly, seems like a small sacrifice to make to get back to work. If you don't want to wear it in the Uber or at the hotel, I don't think they could care less. But let's all play along when passengers are around so we can try to get back to "normal".

MikeBates
05-28-2020, 08:35 AM
One more to add. They made it a point to tell everyone that the members are aware of the COVID response procedures and that they are complaining to WUP when the crews are not following them. They were specific that they have received complaints about crews not wearing masks or taking precautions such as covering coughs=12pt.

I will wear one just to cover my unshaven face.

Logged
05-28-2020, 11:02 AM
i'm in the same boat. Last year left a 121 gig that i was for 17 years pushing heavy metal across the skies. As i am bumping up against my built in decrepitude date for 121 ops figured i would shift a little earlier to 135 so that i could work past that date and establish myself in a new company. Took a huge pay cut, figured (and was told) i would upgrade quick. Now i am stuck making fo wages on partial pay with little to no opportunities for upgrade. Should have stayed where i was, as i would still be making full pay.

Yes, i am rac i guess, but i was working at a bottom feeder acmi outfit. I work hard at the new job
Let me guess
atlas?

hdgbug
05-28-2020, 08:19 PM
I will wear one just to cover my unshaven face.

I get it. Weíre only getting paid 2/3s, so I only shave 2/3s of my face. Now with the masks at least I donít get looked at funny...