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View Full Version : Section 16


6ix9ineYearFlow
03-18-2020, 02:13 AM
I’d recommend the pilot group starts familiarizing themselves with Section 16 of the contract. While I appreciate the optimistic sentiment many of the young kids have here that “this will only last a couple months,” airlines are talking about recovery in terms of years, not months.


brnnrubr
03-18-2020, 05:53 AM
How far up the list do you think they’ll go?

Cyio
03-18-2020, 06:17 AM
I’d recommend the pilot group starts familiarizing themselves with Section 16 of the contract. While I appreciate the optimistic sentiment many of the young kids have here that “this will only last a couple months,” airlines are talking about recovery in terms of years, not months.
If this happens, it will be deemed an "Act of God" and the company basically **** cans you, with virtually no cost to them other than seniority.


But seriously
03-18-2020, 06:18 AM
How far up the list do you think they’ll go?

AA hasn’t even gotten around to reducing our flying yet (emphasis on “yet”). Way too early to guess how many they’ll furlough.

Cyio
03-18-2020, 06:23 AM
How far up the list do you think they’ll go?
Historically, I believe the number typically falls in the 10-20% range.

pitchattitude
03-18-2020, 08:15 AM
Historically, I believe the number typically falls in the 10-20% range.
This is like nothing in history...

At least in the history of the aviation industry.

Now if we go back to medieval times and the plague, now we have some history.

But seriously
03-18-2020, 09:05 AM
This is like nothing in history...

At least in the history of the aviation industry.

Now if we go back to medieval times and the plague, now we have some history.

How high did the furloughs go then?
Sorry, couldn’t resist.

UncreativeUser
03-18-2020, 09:32 AM
This is like nothing in history...

At least in the history of the aviation industry.

Now if we go back to medieval times and the plague, now we have some history.


I really hope your not comparing this to the Black Plague lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pitchattitude
03-18-2020, 09:53 AM
Read some of the articles in today’s ALPA Daily. It is not good.

RawHide
03-18-2020, 10:05 AM
Please read letter 13-02

dera
03-18-2020, 11:56 AM
Please read letter 13-02

Please read 1. of that letter.

FlyGuy2112
03-18-2020, 08:47 PM
****s confusing as ****

NoValueAviator
03-18-2020, 09:21 PM
Please read Solzhenitsyn.

dera
03-18-2020, 09:30 PM
****s confusing as ****

Whats confusing about it?

FlyGuy2112
03-19-2020, 09:01 AM
Whats confusing about it?

how can an ALPA/Envoy agreement dictate to american how to allocate regional flying. 2074 pilots need to stay employed or what’s needed to fly 60% of the Regional feed. What if envoy only gets 30% of that feed? We’re just super fat on pilots?

dera
03-19-2020, 09:07 AM
how can an ALPA/Envoy agreement dictate to american how to allocate regional flying. 2074 pilots need to stay employed or what’s needed to fly 60% of the Regional feed. What if envoy only gets 30% of that feed? We’re just super fat on pilots?

You are missing the key part of that letter.
1302 was pre-merger.

But seriously
03-19-2020, 10:49 AM
You are missing the key part of that letter.
1302 was pre-merger.

It does, however, specifically address what happens if AA merges with another airline.

That letter won’t have much of an effect in the current environment. Almost everyone covered by that letter is gone. Also, the company tried to invoke Force Majoure to apply to a law passed by Congress that they’d known about for 3 years (Low Time FO grievance). Does anyone really think they won’t invoke it now when there ACTUALLY IS ONE?!

dera
03-19-2020, 11:12 AM
It does, however, specifically address what happens if AA merges with another airline.

That letter won’t have much of an effect in the current environment. Almost everyone covered by that letter is gone. Also, the company tried to invoke Force Majoure to apply to a law passed by Congress that they’d known about for 3 years (Low Time FO grievance). Does anyone really think they won’t invoke it now when there ACTUALLY IS ONE?!

Exactly. Long story short, our lifers are safeish. The 2074 number does not apply.

Cujo665
03-20-2020, 05:42 AM
Exactly. Long story short, our lifers are safeish. The 2074 number does not apply.

the language went from arguing number of pilots, to pilots on the list at DOS. It’s one of the issues I was against. Sucks being proven right, even this many years later. I wish I’d have fought harder.

THKooj
03-20-2020, 06:53 AM
the language went from arguing number of pilots, to pilots on the list at DOS. It’s one of the issues I was against. Sucks being proven right, even this many years later. I wish I’d have fought harder.

False. You haven't been proven right on anything that you have opined her. Ever. This is just another example. You are just twisting the facts to engage with more false narratives.

Cyio
03-20-2020, 07:15 AM
False. You haven't been proven right on anything that you have opined her. Ever. This is just another example. You are just twisting the facts to engage with more false narratives.
Says the Pot.

But seriously
03-20-2020, 08:45 AM
False. You haven't been proven right on anything that you have opined her. Ever. This is just another example. You are just twisting the facts to engage with more false narratives.

I can’t believe you’re still posting here.

CLE to IAH
03-20-2020, 09:25 AM
Th you are a POS of the highest order.

Cujo665
03-28-2020, 06:55 AM
False. You haven't been proven right on anything that you have opined her. Ever. This is just another example. You are just twisting the facts to engage with more false narratives.

False? Do you deny the section being discussed puts the first section of furlough protection to be based upon number of pilots; and that the subsequent furlough protection section (the one where AA merges) changes from numbers of pilots used in the previous section to pilots on the seniority list as of date of signing? That is exactly what it says and there is nothing false about it. Further, this issue was raised (along with many others) by yours truly during the process. I think I know what I did and did not do better than you.

Are you still claiming to have "military experience" because you play in civil war reenactments?

THKooj
03-28-2020, 07:54 AM
False? Do you deny the section being discussed puts the first section of furlough protection to be based upon number of pilots; and that the subsequent furlough protection section (the one where AA merges) changes from numbers of pilots used in the previous section to pilots on the seniority list as of date of signing? That is exactly what it says and there is nothing false about it. Further, this issue was raised (along with many others) by yours truly during the process. I think I know what I did and did not do better than you.

Are you still claiming to have "military experience" because you play in civil war reenactments?

Ah yes. Super Cuj flies into ALPA HQ with his cape on and single handedly forces the company to bend to his will. You did it all dude, all by yourself while you were jumping through that contract with leaps and bounds. It was all you.

I've never claimed military SERVICE. I have a military background that has been very beneficial to me and I'm proud of it. Where did you serve? Yep, gotcha.

Cyio
03-28-2020, 08:01 AM
Ah yes. Super Cuj flies into ALPA HQ with his cape on and single handedly forces the company to bend to his will. You did it all dude, all by yourself while you were jumping through that contract with leaps and bounds. It was all you.

I've never claimed military SERVICE. I have a military background that has been very beneficial to me and I'm proud of it. Where did you serve? Yep, gotcha.
So what is your military background? I don’t think Cujo said any of the things you just stated but rather he tried to get things done. His service to the pilots is well documented. I am sure your service against the pilots is as well.

But seriously
03-28-2020, 10:12 AM
Ah yes. Super Cuj flies into ALPA HQ with his cape on and single handedly forces the company to bend to his will. You did it all dude, all by yourself while you were jumping through that contract with leaps and bounds. It was all you.

I've never claimed military SERVICE. I have a military background that has been very beneficial to me and I'm proud of it. Where did you serve? Yep, gotcha.


Now I’m curious. No military service, but you do have a military background? What does that mean?

pitchattitude
03-28-2020, 11:02 AM
Now I’m curious. No military service, but you do have a military background? What does that mean?
THKooj j***** off watching Top Gun and was rejected by the military for psychological instability. So he thinks he has a military background.

martyByrde
03-28-2020, 11:10 AM
Now I’m curious. No military service, but you do have a military background? What does that mean?Civil Air Patrol

buddies8
03-28-2020, 11:35 AM
Civil Air Patrol
they would not accept there also.

Helij3t
03-28-2020, 11:36 AM
THKooj j***** off watching Top Gun and was rejected by the military for psychological instability. So he thinks he has a military background.
:Dlfmao
Give him credit for the asvab

AeroEnvoy
03-28-2020, 02:23 PM
Now I’m curious. No military service, but you do have a military background? What does that mean?
He claims to have a military background because he was a Vietnam war reenactor . According to him he wore the same uniforms and such thus he is familiar with the military. I guess he used that same logic to claim Envoy pilots are American pilots.

But seriously
03-28-2020, 03:01 PM
He claims to have a military background because he was a Vietnam war reenactor . According to him he wore the same uniforms and such thus he is familiar with the military. I guess he used that same logic to claim Envoy pilots are American pilots.

By that logic, they are. Unfortunately that logic is extremely flawed.

rld1k
03-28-2020, 03:09 PM
He claims to have a military background because he was a Vietnam war reenactor . According to him he wore the same uniforms and such thus he is familiar with the military. I guess he used that same logic to claim Envoy pilots are American pilots.

Thkooj is the Andy Kaufman of APC. I can't believe he actually exists.

pitchattitude
03-28-2020, 03:47 PM
He claims to have a military background because he was a Vietnam war reenactor . According to him he wore the same uniforms and such thus he is familiar with the military. I guess he used that same logic to claim Envoy pilots are American pilots.
He is definitely flawed. He must be suffering from re-enactment PTSD. Posting Traumatic Stress Disorder.

black cat
03-28-2020, 07:44 PM
Thkooj is the Andy Kaufman of APC. I can't believe he actually exists.

Yet, everyone here still seems to buy into this guy's schtick. He's winding you up, guys. He's not being serious.

Cujo665
03-29-2020, 06:11 AM
Now I’m curious. No military service, but you do have a military background? What does that mean?

He does acting in Civil War reenactments.... I kid you not, he says that is a military background. He argued it for weeks on TalkAirline under his DaCuj name

Cyio
03-29-2020, 06:35 AM
He does acting in Civil War reenactments.... I kid you not, he says that is a military background. He argued it for weeks on TalkAirline under his DaCuj name
That is unbelievable and insulting to all those that have served.

CaseTractor
03-29-2020, 11:22 AM
How is everyone's April shaping up?

So far my trips have changed and cancelled only to be filled with other flights in the same foot print.

Still flying thankfully.

BigZ
03-29-2020, 11:36 AM
How is everyone's April shaping up?

So far my trips have changed and cancelled only to be filled with other flights in the same foot print.

Still flying thankfully.
same
filler

buddies8
03-29-2020, 11:39 AM
same
filler
same here
..........

Cujo665
03-29-2020, 11:41 AM
That is unbelievable and insulting to all those that have served.

Yes, it is... he was told that repeatedly on TA also. He continues to make the claim, just as he did here.

Captain Kirk
03-29-2020, 03:04 PM
Lost last 2 weeks of March and all April. Nothing reassigned so far. NFE

havick206
03-29-2020, 03:23 PM
Lost last 2 weeks of March and all April. Nothing reassigned so far. NFE

what’s the removal code?

rld1k
03-29-2020, 03:36 PM
They are reassigning a bunch of stuff against the contract and miscoding things. Maybe work overload or maybe upset we voted down their loa

Captain Kirk
03-29-2020, 03:58 PM
what’s the removal code?

Everything is coded XR

CLE to IAH
03-29-2020, 04:41 PM
.

I've never claimed military SERVICE. I have a military background that has been very beneficial to me and I'm proud of it. Where did you serve? Yep, gotcha.
Wow. Just when I thought you couldn’t get any more ridiculous.

you can’t be a real person. Honestly being a lonely moron who gets off on trolling would be better than the actuality of your pathetic persona.

highfarfast
03-29-2020, 05:39 PM
They are reassigning a bunch of stuff against the contract and miscoding things. Maybe work overload or maybe upset we voted down their loa

So far, what I’ve been reassigned to is contractually legit. As far as codes and such, I have a hard time keeping up with what’s right and wrong there so I’m not going to say. I do take screen shots of every single change and if there’s anything I that seems off, sometimes the coding, sometimes when I’m looking at paysheets, I send it to pay comp. If I don’t like their reply, I take it to the union. In my 3 plus years here, I have had pay comp fix things based on doing that and so far, every time I didn’t like what pay comp said and took it to the union, they union said they were right.

Chato
03-29-2020, 05:45 PM
Im trying to keep it simple. I got a awarded a 72 hr line for April, that’s what Im expecting to get paid as I am not picking up OT. Noting start and end times of course to make sure they’re within the original footprint and according to the contract.