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View Full Version : AVA


Stan446
03-26-2020, 01:13 AM
AVA for almost every seat and an FCIF to not bug CRS because they are overwhelmed. Looks like a good time to not fly extra. And I know there will be someone to tell me the contract isn't amendable until 2021, but we should be talking now. We should be reaping some of the benefits of flying extra, and the hazard of flying into Covid China. We got an FAA 60 day extension to when we have to do our sims. The Union should be all over this and guys should be flying the minimum.


wrxpilot
03-26-2020, 02:17 AM
AVA for almost every seat and an FCIF to not bug CRS because they are overwhelmed. Looks like a good time to not fly extra. And I know there will be someone to tell me the contract isn't amendable until 2021, but we should be talking now. We should be reaping some of the benefits of flying extra, and the hazard of flying into Covid China. We got an FAA 60 day extension to when we have to do our sims. The Union should be all over this and guys should be flying the minimum.

You don't have to call CRS for AVA, you can submit the trip of interest through VIPS.

Thrust Hold
03-26-2020, 04:55 AM
The seats that were offered Vacation Buy Backs and AVA appear to be all fleets that could potentially conduct international flying in response to the increased demand of the Coronavirus.

HKG B767 CAP
HKG B767 F/O
EUR B757 CAP
​EUR B757 F/O
MEM B777 CAP
​MEM B777 F/O
​LAX MD11 CAP
LAX MD11 F/O
​ANC MD11 CAP
ANC MD11 F/O
​MEM MD11 CAP
MEM MD11 F/O

This appears to be more of a strategic move to have all hands on deck. Same goes for the Currency extension and cancellations of numerous Recurrent Training events. Doubt it has much to do with “not bugging CRS”.


MEMA300
03-26-2020, 05:12 AM
AVA for almost every seat and an FCIF to not bug CRS because they are overwhelmed. Looks like a good time to not fly extra. And I know there will be someone to tell me the contract isn't amendable until 2021, but we should be talking now. We should be reaping some of the benefits of flying extra, and the hazard of flying into Covid China. We got an FAA 60 day extension to when we have to do our sims. The Union should be all over this and guys should be flying the minimum.


they need an extension on medicals. Doctors are swamped. I am having a hard time doing some required yearly tests for class 1.

Thrust Hold
03-26-2020, 05:43 AM
they need an extension on medicals. Doctors are swamped. I am having a hard time doing some required yearly tests for class 1.

"Medicals

FAA
As I mentioned last week, ALPA had asked the FAA to extend the duration of FAA medicals. We anticipate this week that the FAA will issue a policy memo extending the duration of unrestricted first-class and special issuance medicals by 90 days."

- Capt. Bob Fox
ALPA First Vice President and National Safety Coordinator

cargoforlife
03-26-2020, 02:40 PM
AVA for almost every seat and an FCIF to not bug CRS because they are overwhelmed. Looks like a good time to not fly extra. And I know there will be someone to tell me the contract isn't amendable until 2021, but we should be talking now. We should be reaping some of the benefits of flying extra, and the hazard of flying into Covid China. We got an FAA 60 day extension to when we have to do our sims. The Union should be all over this and guys should be flying the minimum.

Nobody will get AVA/Draft with guys picking up trips at straight time.

Stan446
03-26-2020, 02:41 PM
Nobody will get AVA/Draft with guys picking up trips at straight time.
Sad, but true.

PurpleToolBox
03-28-2020, 03:31 PM
Nobody will get AVA/Draft with guys picking up trips at straight time.

We are overmanned. Nobody is going to get AVA because of that.

StarClipper
03-28-2020, 03:52 PM
We are overmanned. Nobody is going to get AVA because of that.

Overmanned and they’re denying trip trade due to MAX Open Time Exceeded?

PurpleToolBox
03-28-2020, 05:12 PM
Overmanned and they’re denying trip trade due to MAX Open Time Exceeded?

Are they really exceeded?

StarClipper
03-28-2020, 05:20 PM
Are they really exceeded?

That’s the notification I got. I think they posted AVA as a scapegoat to deny trip trades and drops

Noworkallplay
03-28-2020, 07:11 PM
Overmanned and they’re denying trip trade due to MAX Open Time Exceeded?

Tons of guys getting draft. Numerous buds on MD and triple killing it last 2 months.

PurpleToolBox
03-29-2020, 07:51 PM
Tons of guys getting draft. Numerous buds on MD and triple killing it last 2 months.

I've tried like crazy and live in Memphis and I haven't been able to pickup anything. In fact, while I was in theater, with a deadhead back home, I called scheduling and asked to be extended -- and they said "oh ok" and never heard back.

Tuck
03-29-2020, 08:10 PM
Overmanned and they’re denying trip trade due to MAX Open Time Exceeded?
It's a mathematical formula guys - read the contract. 2 reserves to cover every trip in open time to allow any BLAs. You don't have any idea of reserve future forecaster or what they have plugged in for AVA (there are plenty of guys in SUB these days as well keep in mind)

Stan446
03-29-2020, 09:19 PM
And in 2021, when the contract is open, we'll get F'd again. If guys would stop flying extra, we'd have leverage.

Nightflyer
03-29-2020, 09:22 PM
We had leverage last time and the union pi$$ed it away, so what difference does it really make?

They were canceling flights for lack of crews, and the union leadership still dropped the ball.

PurpleToolBox
03-30-2020, 07:17 AM
And in 2021, when the contract is open, we'll get F'd again. If guys would stop flying extra, we'd have leverage.

You CAN'T fly extra at straight time. You can only go what 6 hours above your BLG. These are people who have some type of make up.

Maybe I am wrong. Explain how you fly at straight time above your BLG.

pinseeker
03-30-2020, 08:13 AM
You CAN'T fly extra at straight time. You can only go what 6 hours above your BLG. These are people who have some type of make up.

Maybe I am wrong. Explain how you fly at straight time above your BLG.


I'll give it a shot.

Protecting carry-over and not protecting min days off. I know of pilots that bid max carry-over, and then bid to protect that carry-over and fly a full next month. These pilots can have as little as 6 days off.

Selling back max vacation. This is giving up paid days off so that you can work more and get paid for days that you could have had off. Selling back vacation is just like working extra IMO.

Yes, both of these are allowed in the contract. However, the company then goes to the NC and says why do pilots need so many min days off? Look at how much they work voluntarily. The same can be said with our vacation.


Edit: I'll add that yes, you can pick up a trip worth only 6 hours if you don't have a make-up bank, but you can trade a trip for up to 12 hours more than the trip was worth. If you do both, that is an additional 18 hours without a make-up bank. Then you add the items I posted above.

PurpleToolBox
03-30-2020, 11:51 AM
I'll give it a shot.

Protecting carry-over and not protecting min days off. I know of pilots that bid max carry-over, and then bid to protect that carry-over and fly a full next month. These pilots can have as little as 6 days off.

Selling back max vacation. This is giving up paid days off so that you can work more and get paid for days that you could have had off. Selling back vacation is just like working extra IMO.

Yes, both of these are allowed in the contract. However, the company then goes to the NC and says why do pilots need so many min days off? Look at how much they work voluntarily. The same can be said with our vacation.


Edit: I'll add that yes, you can pick up a trip worth only 6 hours if you don't have a make-up bank, but you can trade a trip for up to 12 hours more than the trip was worth. If you do both, that is an additional 18 hours without a make-up bank. Then you add the items I posted above.

Agree. Completely. However, with 40, 50, 80+CH trips on the 777, the majority of those trips aren't being picked up liked that. There are very few people that I find that have stocked schedules like that.

The reality is, ever since C2015 and being short of pilots, this company decided to plus up on manning. There was a PFC news article about the board of directors approving this immediately after C2015. I have gone back several times trying to find that article and I can't. But I know I am not making it up.

Before C2015 I was getting called for draft every morning, afternoon and evening. After we passed C2015 and hiring started, by that next summer I've only had two phone calls for draft in the last 4-5 years.

Nightflyer
03-30-2020, 11:46 PM
And they said we didn't have leverage....

Stan446
03-31-2020, 03:20 AM
Just fly your line, no draft, no ava. The company is short is almost every seat. If the company isn't moving the freight, you'll see a change in what they can do,

Noworkallplay
03-31-2020, 08:39 AM
I've tried like crazy and live in Memphis and I haven't been able to pickup anything. In fact, while I was in theater, with a deadhead back home, I called scheduling and asked to be extended -- and they said "oh ok" and never heard back.

People are literally bragging on social media about getting draft. I guess you just have bad luck.

UnusualAttitude
03-31-2020, 10:50 AM
Just fly your line, no draft, no ava. The company is short is almost every seat. If the company isn't moving the freight, you'll see a change in what they can do,


Why are you trolling on the Delta forum? What’s the benefit to that?

Tuck
03-31-2020, 02:29 PM
Just fly your line, no draft, no ava. The company is short is almost every seat. If the company isn't moving the freight, you'll see a change in what they can do,
They are most certainly not short in most every seat - likely not short anywhere except for HKG where there's always extra. Where did you get that idea?

pinseeker
03-31-2020, 03:23 PM
People are literally bragging on social media about getting draft. I guess you just have bad luck.


No, CRS knows who the crack addicts are and just like any good pusher, they keep feeding the habit. Not everyone can average 100+ credit hours a month, only our special few. You know the guys, the ones that like to brag about their pay and then complain about independent contractors.

StarClipper
04-01-2020, 03:46 AM
Why are guys using OTP when AVA is being offered? Let the company pay that 150%. I just don’t understand this pilot group. As far as I’m concerned, as long as the company offer AVA, guys should wait until the company is force to pay that 150%

kronan
04-01-2020, 04:30 AM
The company is never "forced" to use AVA.

Just as the company is not "required" to buy back a single vacation after soliciting a vacation buyback.

IMO-AVA is an option, not because the company has too much freight and not enough pilots, but because the company wants the flight scheduled filled sooner. rather than later, if a lot of trips drop into OT

There's only so much OTP @ 125%. There's an unlimited amount of AVA\DFT\VLT. And VLT is always available, even when there hasn't been a vacation buy back solicitation

LunkerHunter
04-01-2020, 07:36 AM
Why are guys using OTP when AVA is being offered? Let the company pay that 150%. I just don’t understand this pilot group. As far as I’m concerned, as long as the company offer AVA, guys should wait until the company is force to pay that 150%

Well, one reason is that a pilot's OTP expires after three months and its use doesn't have to be approved by scheduling when flying a makeup trip…. you speak as if AVA is automatic for open time trips just because the fcif comes out that it's available for a given month. It's not. It's still at the discretion of CRS.

Tuck
04-01-2020, 08:00 AM
Why are guys using OTP when AVA is being offered? Let the company pay that 150%. I just don’t understand this pilot group. As far as I’m concerned, as long as the company offer AVA, guys should wait until the company is force to pay that 150%
I don't think you have a good understanding of how AVA works or maybe you are confusing it with the AVA settlement during peak that expired last year. AVA is at Company's option - if they have plenty of reserves - or SUB, which they seem to have a lot now, the Company will deny it - especially if they have a list of ready VLT guys for that day with no conflicts. With so many daily revisions and cancellations the Company is more reluctant to assign early if they can avoid it. So many trips go away or get revised to an operational jumpseat and the later those get assigned it can save money (or future SUB problems) for the Company. That's a primary reason why AVA does not seem to be going out at 7 days - I've seen it happen closer to the date though.

busdriver12
04-01-2020, 05:47 PM
Just fly your line, no draft, no ava. The company is short is almost every seat. If the company isn't moving the freight, you'll see a change in what they can do,

This is not the time. We are trying to keep the economy moving, what we do is important, particularly right now. And what is happening to the pax carriers could happen to us at some time in the future. Many people can’t even go home, because they are afraid to expose their families, may as well work. It’s the one thing that actually makes me feel normal right now, and I feel very good about doing my job.

Not accepting trips that are hazardous to your health or fatiguing....that’s a completely different issue. That is something that you should never do. Otherwise, work as much (or as little ) as you like, and I hope people earn max pay doing so.

cargoforlife
04-02-2020, 01:55 PM
Well, one reason is that a pilot's OTP expires after three months and its use doesn't have to be approved by scheduling when flying a makeup trip…. you speak as if AVA is automatic for open time trips just because the fcif comes out that it's available for a given month. It's not. It's still at the discretion of CRS.

What use doesn't need to be approved? OTP? You can use that whenever you want.

And if you're using OTP because it's going to expire instead of picking up trips via AVA you're retarded.

I'm watching tons of trips go at straight time when people are getting AVA. Crazy!

LunkerHunter
04-02-2020, 02:22 PM
What use doesn't need to be approved? OTP? You can use that whenever you want.

And if you're using OTP because it's going to expire instead of picking up trips via AVA you're retarded.

I'm watching tons of trips go at straight time when people are getting AVA. Crazy!

Are you sober? All you did was repeat what I said about OTP…. that it doesn't need to be approved, unlike AVA

Also, I disagree with you about the OTP usage vs AVA and your observation proves my point: if trips are being picked at straight time (your words) then someone with OTP that's expiring soon would have an even greater incentive to grab a trip to burn their OTP bank- in other words, if open trips frequently aren't lasting until the AVA eligibility window (again, your observation) then the choice between using OTP vs getting another +25% at AVA doesn't even exist.

pc12driver
04-03-2020, 02:59 PM
You get draft, and you get draft, you all get draft!!! MD11 has been dispatched to help with all the international freight [emoji15]


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cargoforlife
04-04-2020, 05:10 AM
You get draft, and you get draft, you all get draft!!! MD11 has been dispatched to help with all the international freight [emoji15]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Bet the guy who used his OTP feels silly right about now. And the amount of trips picked up more then 7 days out is embarrassing.

pc12driver
04-04-2020, 06:03 AM
Bet the guy who used his OTP feels silly right about now. And the amount of trips picked up more then 7 days out is embarrassing.


Agreed!


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