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View Full Version : MEC Response


fishforfun
03-27-2020, 03:00 PM
“After careful consideration and based on pilot feedback, your MEC has unanimously decided not to allow a reduced ALV below the contractual limit.”

“This relief resulted in LOA 20-01 and provided Delta an immediate savings of well over $50 million in April alone.”

Check your email for the full story.


Turbo1
03-27-2020, 03:07 PM
Hold the line.....

4fans
03-27-2020, 03:08 PM
Bravo MEC, Bravo!


beis77
03-27-2020, 03:13 PM
The company could offer 14,600 SILs?

Speed Select
03-27-2020, 03:13 PM
Has Delta agreed to take bailout money?

fishforfun
03-27-2020, 03:14 PM
The company could offer 14,600 SILs?

And 0 could bid for them.

beis77
03-27-2020, 03:15 PM
Has Delta agreed to take bailout money?
EB thanked Congress, so that’s the assumption

fishforfun
03-27-2020, 03:16 PM
Has Delta agreed to take bailout money?

Thats a journalists dream story.

“Delta Air Lines declines government grants in favor of employee furloughs and stock buy backs.”

They signed a letter requesting the grants a week or so ago. I’m sure they are in deep consideration of not taking it and I still bet they don’t take it.

beis77
03-27-2020, 03:18 PM
Thats a journalists dream story.

“Delta Air Lines declines government grants in favor of employee furloughs and stock buy backs.”

They signed a letter requesting the grants a week or so ago. I’m sure they are in deep consideration of not taking it and I still bet they don’t take it.
I could see them not taking the loans. They’d be insane not to take the grant money.

HeyOneTaco
03-27-2020, 03:20 PM
Thats a journalists dream story.

“Delta Air Lines declines government grants in favor of employee furloughs and stock buy backs.”

They signed a letter requesting the grants a week or so ago. I’m sure they are in deep consideration of not taking it and I still bet they don’t take it.

The PR alone for asking for it, then not taking it and dumping your employees mere months after a very public profit sharing and THANK YOU plane flying around would be terrible. I don’t put it past them though.

Did we park the THANK YOU plane too? That would be icing on this poop filled cake

fishforfun
03-27-2020, 03:22 PM
The PR alone for asking for it, then not taking it and dumping your employees mere months after a very public profit sharing and THANK YOU plane flying around would be terrible. I don’t put it past them though.

Did we park the THANK YOU plane too? That would be icing on this poop filled cake

Nope, had some pics sent to me of it on a ramp in FL.

80ktsClamp
03-27-2020, 03:22 PM
Out-freaking-standing! Here's the full text: Dear Fellow Pilot:



We continue to find ourselves in unprecedented and uncertain times during this COVID-19 crisis. I applaud and appreciate your commitment and resolve during these trying times and I especially appreciate your resounding feedback and unity. I'd like to take a moment to pause from business to address the personal side of this situation. I know the uncertainty and changing dynamics are causing you and your loved ones stress and frustration. Please know I am sincere when I say I care about each of you and your families. While your MEC works tirelessly to protect you and your career, it is imperative you take whatever course of action that is best suited for the health and safety of you and your family. I pledge to each of you that the MEC and I stand strong to support you and your needs.



On to brass tacks: the Delta MEC met yesterday and today in special session via teleconference to discuss the rapidly changing situation, its impact to Delta Air Lines, and to direct a plan of action for the MEC to protect pilots' health, welfare, and livelihood. As you know, the Company has elected to not offer SILs for the May and June bid periods, opting to forgo the cost savings and staffing flexibility they provided. Instead, Delta asked the MEC to consider additional contractual relief for the May through July bid periods via a reduction in ALV/TLV by 20%.
After careful consideration and based on pilot feedback, your MEC has unanimously decided not to allow a reduced ALV below the contractual limit. I will expound on this decision in detail; however, I first want to address your questions about what offers of assistance ALPA has made thus far.



Over a month ago, when it became apparent COVID-19 would impact the operation, I engaged Mr. Glen Hauenstein, President of Delta Air Lines, Mr. John Laughter, SVP – Flight Operations, and other Delta management to open discussion for a path forward. This week, Delta Management asked ALPA for additional relief totaling upwards of $100 million through June. Here is what we have offered thus far:




Before the April bid packages were loaded into DBMS, MEC leadership twice offered the Company a 24-hour delay in opening the bid window. The Company declined that assistance.




Shortly after the PBS bid window opened, the Company requested to republish the bid packages. MEC leadership offered to accommodate the request and reschedule the bid window in exchange for other improvements. The Company declined.




After the government restricted travel to continental Europe, the Company again approached MEC leadership proposing relief which allowed the Company to re-do the April bid. This relief resulted in LOA 20-01 and provided Delta an immediate savings of well over $50 million in April alone.




The Company also requested PWA relief by asking the MEC to reinstitute Special Incentive Lines (SILs) at 55 hours and relief from certain provisions of PWA Section 23 K. The MEC agreed and LOA 20-01 was approved allowing SILs, at Company discretion, as part of a staffing and cost reduction strategy.



The MEC feels the Company could have achieved greater immediate payroll savings through SILs while it worked with the MEC for additional temporary relief. Pilot feedback indicates the pilot group was in favor of helping the Company by taking a SIL and using that time off to self-quarantine and protect their families from COVID-19. Instead, the MEC will stand by its offer of assistance through LOA 20-01 and other voluntary vehicles to preserve liquidity. The MEC believes this is a win-win solution and we look forward to the Company's response.



The MEC feels strongly that the relief offered, in addition to relief already provided for April, is more than fair and in line with relief provided by pilot groups at other major carriers. These provisions exceed the relief sought by Delta management. In a recent corporate memo, Ed Bastian demanded pilots help solve the Company's financial crisis. Delta pilots were the first employee group to offer relief with the ratification ofLOA 20-01. As leaders within the Delta family, we are willing to engage once more with these voluntary measures; therefore, it cannot be said that the Delta MEC has been unwilling to help our Company in this time of need.



I call on Ed to revisit his words as delivered to the New York Times (http://send.alpa.org/link.cfm?r=m7VTPwH2P0dTK2pCHuy1hg~~&pe=4tw_J2mo8uTjzoxbVSdJK0i5AQbHEW2otrH_NQJMl6KVnUv vQpucWoouct6pdC2Dj6_Hz03NpZXBI750fwqSIA~~&t=GgewNUl9Vg2nomtnvxUlkg~~) during an interview last year speaking on cutting pay, benefits, and slashing pensions after 9/11. "Our values are not for sale...You've got to make certain that your employees know that they are the absolute best asset you have. When you go through difficult times, employees can feel like they're a number, they're a cost, they're a means to an end. But no, they are the end themselves." There is no question Delta Air Lines has become a world-class airline because of its world-class employees with Delta pilots leading the charge. Over the last year we have not seen that message acted upon through Section 6 negotiations which have resulted in very little value for pilots. My message to Delta management is clear: It starts here, it starts now. Restore trust with the Delta pilots by honoring our negotiated offers of relief, LOA 20-01, and our current PWA. How Delta management handles this crisis will dictate the future of its relationship with Delta pilots; we stand united as a ready partner to assist Delta Air Lines. It's our company, our future.



To my fellow pilots, I extend to you my continued promise of reverent service and leadership during these difficult times. Your MEC stands behind you and we will do what is right and necessary to protect the profession and career you have each worked so hard to achieve. I call on each of you to, first and foremost, stay healthy and be there for your families and loved ones. I call on you to continue to stay engaged, focused, and positive throughout this crisis. Lastly, I call on each of you to remain in solidarity with your fellow pilots; support one another and let us move forward with our united strength to emerge even stronger than ever before.



In unity, appreciation, and understanding,



Ryan

queuetip
03-27-2020, 03:23 PM
Did we park the THANK YOU plane too? That would be icing on this poop filled cake
It's parked off of DD in LGA hiding behind a 717.

mikea72580
03-27-2020, 03:24 PM
I could see them not taking the loans. They’d be insane not to take the grant money.

They said furlough would be the last resort. Translated means Government Loans will be the last resort. Furloughs will come far before that. Surprisingly, it’s the loans that require providing the government equity.

The grants had fewer strings, they are taking those.

Abouttime2fish
03-27-2020, 03:25 PM
Bravo gentlemen.

daOldMan
03-27-2020, 03:25 PM
The PR alone for asking for it, then not taking it and dumping your employees mere months after a very public profit sharing and THANK YOU plane flying around would be terrible. I don’t put it past them though.

Did we park the THANK YOU plane too? That would be icing on this poop filled cake

The airlines actually asked for grants with no strings attached. Instead, the airlines have to give up equity in the airline and some control in order to receive the money. This money won't be nearly enough if this lasts past July, and could bankrupt all of the airlines that take it.

mikea72580
03-27-2020, 03:27 PM
The airlines actually asked for grants with no strings attached. Instead, the airlines have to give up equity in the airline and some control in order to receive the money. This money won't be nearly enough if this lasts past July, and could bankrupt all of the airlines that take it.

No offense, none of this makes sense.

Grapple
03-27-2020, 04:12 PM
Good job MEC!

LumberJack
03-27-2020, 04:21 PM
The airlines actually asked for grants with no strings attached. Instead, the airlines have to give up equity in the airline and some control in order to receive the money. This money won't be nearly enough if this lasts past July, and could bankrupt all of the airlines that take it.

You're not making sense.

First, the equity only applies to the loans, not the grants.

Second, read Ed's memo on Deltanet, Subject: Some Welcome Relief

Jaww
03-27-2020, 04:23 PM
Great job MEC. I’m behind you and thanks for being behind us too.

Av8rPHX
03-27-2020, 04:39 PM
Nope, had some pics sent to me of it on a ramp in FL.


It’s routed to do a DTW-SAN turn tomorrow and then RON in ORD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tropflyer
03-27-2020, 04:52 PM
Outstanding response!

DeadStick
03-27-2020, 05:01 PM
The airlines actually asked for grants with no strings attached. Instead, the airlines have to give up equity in the airline and some control in order to receive the money. This money won't be nearly enough if this lasts past July, and could bankrupt all of the airlines that take it.Are you trying to say that carrying redundant employees until Sep 30th would cost more than the $5 Billion grant?

Tailhookah
03-27-2020, 05:04 PM
OUTSTANDING!!!!

Let them eat cake. Agree 100%. We offered assistance. Good assistance. Follow the contract. We always have too. Why shouldn’t we expect Delta to hold up their end of agreements... lastly and namely LOA 20-01 for instance. Maybe Delta would get more understanding if they didn’t poke us in the eye after signing LOA 20-01. You get what you sow.

fishforfun
03-27-2020, 05:45 PM
OUTSTANDING!!!!

Let them eat cake. Agree 100%. We offered assistance. Good assistance. Follow the contract. We always have too. Why shouldn’t we expect Delta to hold up their end of agreements... lastly and namely LOA 20-01 for instance. Maybe Delta would get more understanding if they didn’t poke us in the eye after signing LOA 20-01. You get what you sow.

Anyone can see that LOA 20-01 wasn’t going to be the last ask. This is a situation like no other and will require more cooperation with all parties to save as much money and as many jobs as possible. So why on earth would you ask for help, then, like you said, poke us in the eye after providing a concession?

sailingfun
03-27-2020, 06:00 PM
Are you trying to say that carrying redundant employees until Sep 30th would cost more than the $5 Billion grant?

Delta’s total expenses in 2019 were just over 40 billion. About 15.3 billion of that number are employee expenses. That includes Delta, DGS and PS.

RJ4LIFE
03-27-2020, 06:10 PM
Delta’s total expenses in 2019 were just over 40 billion. About 15.3 billion of that number are employee expenses. That includes Delta, DGS and PS.

According to this article we spent $11.2 billion on payroll last year. Considering that included a green slip frenzy and ALVs in the 80s most of the year I think $5 billion for six months should be plenty.

https://seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4334345-delta-air-lines-better-positioned-to-shrink-american-united

Dobbs18
03-27-2020, 06:32 PM
According to this article we spent $11.2 billion on payroll last year. Considering that included a green slip frenzy and ALVs in the 80s most of the year I think $5 billion for six months should be plenty.

https://seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4334345-delta-air-lines-better-positioned-to-shrink-american-united
Its a good article but mentions nothing about Delta's equity stakes in Air France, Aeromexico, GOL, Virgin Atlantic, Korean Air, and China Eastern...I just wonder how those look and effect the balance sheets these days, good or bad...

DARR31
03-27-2020, 07:00 PM
Well done MEC! DAL could have saved some money the next two months, but I feel became greedy. Gets back to no one is going to stay home and get paid when other are on leave without pay. I get they would rather see leave without pay, but our skill set is different. Back in 10’ when they over hired and asked guys to do something else, I did my part. But at about 1.5 years into it they were asking me to come back and I did at the 2 year point. That was with Richard and Ed is a different animal. From what I have seen the last few years is, they try to save a penny but then end up spending a dollar. Can’t believe we still had the profits we did!

sailingfun
03-27-2020, 07:05 PM
According to this article we spent $11.2 billion on payroll last year. Considering that included a green slip frenzy and ALVs in the 80s most of the year I think $5 billion for six months should be plenty.

https://seekingalpha.com/amp/article/4334345-delta-air-lines-better-positioned-to-shrink-american-united

11.2 does not include DGS or profit sharing. The numbers are in the annual report.

Tailhookah
03-27-2020, 07:08 PM
It’s all in how they immediately trounced an agreement and all they said is things changed. Well they didn’t have the balls to tell all other employees that a deal is a deal. They’re worried it’d show other groups that there is a benefit to a union. Period. Well maybe don’t agree to it next time. We are always made aware how we are different than the rest of the employees due to our “bargaining agent” and that things that are given en masse to all others (like merit raises) aren’t given to us b/c of the contract. So we negotiate a very industry average LOA that does save a lot of money but it immediately gets broken and then asks for something different.

Maybe they should’ve kept the SILs and then asked for something additional.

It set a precedent. Set a very bad tone. They broke a promise. Then got a huge bailout. After horrible greedy practices of massive waste of stock buybacks that only help institutional investors or executives selling massive amounts of stock. Then they have the nerve to cut our pay in lieu of a massive tax funded bailout... sorry. We made a great offer. You agreed.

Once bitten. Twice shy. We learned our lesson the last time.

CX500T
03-27-2020, 07:45 PM
Anyone else think of this?

Bust a deal face the wheel!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200328/9e692930675150cdbe0613d270c31639.gif

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

crazyjaydawg
03-27-2020, 08:37 PM
Great response by the MEC.

Very refreshing to see comms from ALPA before the company could get something out, I’m guessing Gummball is looking like an idiot right now.

The company has reneged on a lot of deals in the past few years, especially since Ed has taken over. When they need help it’s time for us as a work group to say “enough is enough.”

We as pilot are all about helping and we want to get the mission done, but we need to be treated fairly. That is why the company must give us a legitimate offer that helps us help them.

Enough is enough Ed.

crazyjaydawg
03-27-2020, 08:38 PM
Enough is enough Ed.
That would actually make a great lanyard.

Denny Crane
03-27-2020, 08:41 PM
I will give kudos to all my fellow pilots who contacted their Reps and made their desires known. Sounds like it was a pretty easy unanimous decision by the MEC.

Denny

toolowterrain
03-27-2020, 08:45 PM
It's parked off of DD in LGA hiding behind a 717.

can confirm that.

notEnuf
03-27-2020, 10:17 PM
11.2 does not include DGS or profit sharing. The numbers are in the annual report.

Profit sharing expense will be commensurate with our profit. I'm not planning for any this year so the expense is 0. and BTW if we make a profit and get PS, then by definition they can afford the employee expenses.

DrJekyll MrHyde
03-28-2020, 01:09 AM
You're not making sense.

First, the equity only applies to the loans, not the grants.

Second, read Ed's memo on Deltanet, Subject: Some Welcome Relief

I’m not trying to troll you. Just wanted to give you this language from the bill which applies directly to the grants. It’s at the discretion of Steve Mnuchin, Secretary of Treasury, to ask for equity stake for grants. In contrast, the loans (5yr max term) must have collateral agreements from the company receiving; so if they pay off the loans that the collateral agreement is terminated. The equity for grants COULD be more murky if Mnuchin chooses to exercise that equity requirement, because there isn’t any mechanism to retrieve that equity back from the government; in fact it would seem that buying back that equity from the government would go directly against the “no stock/equity buybacks” this bill specifically prohibits until September 30, 2021.

SEC. 4117. TAX PAYER PROTECTION.
The Secretary may receive warrants, options, pre- ferred stock, debt securities, notes, or other financial in- struments issued by recipients of financial assistance under this subtitle which, in the sole determination of the Secretary, provide appropriate compensation to the Fed Government for the provision of the financial assistance.

SEC. 4114. REQUIRED ASSURANCES.
(a) IN GENERAL.—To be eligible for financial assistance under this subtitle, an air carrier or contractor shall enter into an agreement with the Secretary, or otherwise certify in such form and manner as the Secretary shall prescribe, that the air carrier or contractor shall—
(1) refrain from conducting involuntary furloughs or reducing pay rates and benefits until September 30, 2020;
(2) through September 30, 2021, ensure that neither the air carrier or contractor nor any affiliate of the air carrier or contractor may, in any transaction, purchase an equity security of the air carrier or contractor or the parent company of the air carrier or contractor that is listed on a national securities exchange;
(3) through September 30, 2021, ensure that the air carrier or contractor shall not pay dividends, or make other capital distributions, with respect to the common stock (or equivalent interest) of the air carrier or contractor;

RJ4LIFE
03-28-2020, 04:40 AM
The irony of all of this is that in an effort to downplay the importance of a union to the other work groups, the company actually managed to do the exact opposite.

Herkflyr
03-28-2020, 04:48 AM
Great response by the MEC.

Very refreshing to see comms from ALPA before the company could get something out, I’m guessing Gummball is looking like an idiot right now.

The company has reneged on a lot of deals in the past few years, especially since Ed has taken over.

Can you name one?

Jaww
03-28-2020, 04:52 AM
Can you name one?

I could start with scope in the PWA but that’s not a big deal.

deltabound
03-28-2020, 05:10 AM
I remember the days when MEMRAT was the sacred right of every Delta pilot. Zealously guarded, fiercely demanded.

Ah, the golden ages of three days ago.


Like a MEC decision? “My MEC speaks for me!”

Don’t like a MEC decision? “Where’s our MEMRAT!!!!”

(I don’t envy the MEC. Lol. Wish them luck though.)

DALMD88FO
03-28-2020, 05:16 AM
I remember the days when MEMRAT was the sacred right of every Delta pilot. Zealously guarded, fiercely demanded.

Ah, the golden ages of three days ago.


Like a MEC decision? “My MEC speaks for me!”

Don’t like a MEC decision? “Where’s our MEMRAT!!!!”

(I don’t envy the MEC. Lol. Wish them luck though.)

Maybe you should think about what you are saying before posting. Yes we want MEMRAT if a change significantly changes our PWA. The MEC defended our current PWA and LOA so there was zero to MEMRAT. I'm open to a differing opinion but to come on here saying we should have had MEMRAT for the status quo is ridiculous.

Jaww
03-28-2020, 05:18 AM
Maybe you should think about what you are saying before posting. Yes we want MEMRAT if a change significantly changes our PWA. The MEC defended our current PWA and LOA so there was zero to MEMRAT. I'm open to a differing opinion but to come on here saying we should have had MEMRAT for the status quo is ridiculous.

Bingo. Well said.

The Localizer
03-28-2020, 05:22 AM
It’s routed to do a DTW-SAN turn tomorrow and then RON in ORD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
it was in Atlanta yesterday

Tailhookah
03-28-2020, 05:42 AM
Maybe you should think about what you are saying before posting. Yes we want MEMRAT if a change significantly changes our PWA. The MEC defended our current PWA and LOA so there was zero to MEMRAT. I'm open to a differing opinion but to come on here saying we should have had MEMRAT for the status quo is ridiculous.


Agree 100%. I engaged all 3 of my reps. Wrote a detailed email on what I expected. They all wrote back and said it was the overwhelming response from the pilot group. There was good communication and they went with the LOA that was already signed. Oh yeah... along with the billions from Uncle Sam as well.

FlighTimeBarbie
03-28-2020, 05:57 AM
I remember the days when MEMRAT was the sacred right of every Delta pilot. Zealously guarded, fiercely demanded.

Ah, the golden ages of three days ago.


This was your original post, not sure why you expanded it...

It’s interesting to note most pilots don’t understand MEMRAT, or even what this stands for. Indeed, in July of 2015 many MEC members either didn’t understand, or knowingly overlooked (violated) the MEC Policy Manual on membership ratification when they served up TA2015 to the pilots. It was a policy manual that, by then, had been quietly, perhaps unbeknownst to many on the MEC (or subsequent MECs), rewritten under the Moak administration in the merging of DAL/NWA MECs in 2007/2008. Certainly not all issues require MEMRAT, but the MEC must at least have the debate, and the meeting minutes and a resolution should reflect that debate.

The Moak language took away the voice of the pilots in everything except Section 6 and also departed significantly from the original DAL MEC Policy Manual which had been aligned with the ALPA (National) Constitution and ByLaws. That “rewritten” policy manual - which brought you joint venture, FAR117, TA2012...and almost TA2015 - has since been restored after local LEC resolutions beginning in SEA and ending in committee.

It’s easy to vent and opine on forums; it takes much more time to read and understand meeting minutes, policy manuals and resolutions. Inconvenient for most, but it’s is necessary in maintaining and protecting your voice.

Han Solo
03-28-2020, 06:01 AM
The irony of all of this is that in an effort to downplay the importance of a union to the other work groups, the company actually managed to do the exact opposite.

But will they be smart enough to realize that, or once again fall for the company propaganda on DLnet and blame the pilot group for all their woes?

FlighTimeBarbie
03-28-2020, 06:06 AM
Yes we want MEMRAT if a change significantly changes our PWA. The MEC defended our current PWA and LOA so there was zero to MEMRAT. I'm open to a differing opinion but to come on here saying we should have had MEMRAT for the status quo is ridiculous.

Agree. Also, MEMRAT is a process that takes time...

TED74
03-28-2020, 06:10 AM
But will they be smart enough to realize that, or once again fall for the company propaganda on DLnet and blame the pilot group for all their woes?

It'll all depend on their organized peers at UAL/AA/SWA. Pilot blame will happen, but won't change behavior IMHO.

sailingfun
03-28-2020, 06:54 AM
I remember the days when MEMRAT was the sacred right of every Delta pilot. Zealously guarded, fiercely demanded.

Ah, the golden ages of three days ago.


Like a MEC decision? “My MEC speaks for me!”

Don’t like a MEC decision? “Where’s our MEMRAT!!!!”

(I don’t envy the MEC. Lol. Wish them luck though.)

Ratification only applies to a major change in the contract. Did I miss something?

FlighTimeBarbie
03-28-2020, 08:28 AM
Ratification only applies to a major change in the contract. Did I miss something?Yes, you did. Sigh.

Countless hours, thousands of posts...but most pilots will remain uninformed, never taking the time to research and understand the processes and policies of their own MEC.

The Delta MEC Policy Manual is available on the DALPA website, as are meeting minutes, resolutions and such.

Your MEC waived (Section 9) requirements for both MEMRAT and, understandably, “time in hand” for LOA 20-10. But indeed, they did consider and vote, which under the MEC “Moak Manual” (2007/8 Edition), would not have been required.

The post-Moak Era procedures and policies (MEC Policy Manual Section 9) currently in place include “when change to the PWA is contemplated...” (“major” does not appear in the PM in this context).

Section 6 collective bargaining shall always require MEMRAT. “All other amendments,” including LOAs “shall be subject” (9.B.1.b) to MEMRAT, or an additional process that allows consideration for it (9.B.1.c).

Prior to the Moak Era, there was a record of resolutions and meeting minutes showing the MEC always, at least, held the debate/vote considering PWA changes, as to whether they met the former threshold of being a “substantial” change. Note: Substantial change...is no longer in PM, though it’s roots, from the ALPA C&BL, remain.

Again, I encourage all pilots to read and understand what’s going on...more facts, less forum.

SideSticker
03-28-2020, 01:57 PM
I just looked at the KLOAs posted for May-July. It looks like management believes that this is not going to last too long as the number of available leaves drops off quite a bit by July, if I'm reading it correctly.

tennisguru
03-28-2020, 06:36 PM
I just looked at the KLOAs posted for May-July. It looks like management believes that this is not going to last too long as the number of available leaves drops off quite a bit by July, if I'm reading it correctly.
Sort of, since all currently offered leaves must start in May. There’s nothing to stop them from offering more leaves of any length starting in June or July.