Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : CAL's Most Junior Captain


757Driver
08-07-2007, 03:25 PM
As of today's latest bid, our most junior Captain was hired on 09/13/2005 and is seniority number 3970 out of 4924. 737 based in EWR with less than 2 years on the property.

Speaks volumes on how most Pilots will not bid Captain solely to avoid PBS.


cfii2007
08-07-2007, 03:29 PM
Pbs??????????????????

alvrb211
08-07-2007, 03:53 PM
Hey 757,

Just curious, have you been to Glasgow since the terrorist attack?

AL


joel payne
08-07-2007, 03:57 PM
Preferential Bid System ?? Maybe ?

flybynuts
08-07-2007, 04:03 PM
Could anyone elaborate on the love/hate (mostly) with PBS at CAL? Most of us are not privy to the actual use of the system and shortcomings.

Thanks.

mundo1
08-07-2007, 04:03 PM
Yes. Preferential Bidding System

757Driver
08-07-2007, 04:28 PM
Hey 757,

Just curious, have you been to Glasgow since the terrorist attack?

AL

No, just Edinburgh.

757Driver
08-07-2007, 04:31 PM
Could anyone elaborate on the love/hate (mostly) with PBS at CAL? Most of us are not privy to the actual use of the system and shortcomings.

Thanks.

Our system actually reaches up and takes trips from senior Pilots in order to build lines as low as it can. It doesn't honor seniority at all and guys half way up the list, (mostly on the 737), are getting 12 days off a month and flying over 90 hours even while requesting a min schedule. There is no open time left over after it runs and it just plain sucks. Its Boeing's Carmen version and it was never tested on anyone but lucky us.

Priority one on our next contract is to dump it.

Sanchez
08-07-2007, 06:07 PM
As of today's latest bid, our most junior Captain was hired on 09/13/2005 and is seniority number 3970 out of 4924. 737 based in EWR with less than 2 years on the property.

Speaks volumes on how most Pilots will not bid Captain solely to avoid PBS.

Just out of curiosity was he a new hire or a flowback?

757Driver
08-07-2007, 06:10 PM
Just out of curiosity was he a new hire or a flowback?

Not sure what a flow-back is, I thought that only applied when we furlough?

He's an off the street hire not from Express.

Sanchez
08-07-2007, 06:29 PM
Not sure what a flow-back is, I thought that only applied when we furlough?

He's an off the street hire not from Express.

Yeah that's what we called the guys that came to Express from CAL as per the flow-through agreement, then they went back. So he was a street hired? wow!!!!

B757200ER
08-07-2007, 08:16 PM
Very impressive; go CAL!

JoeyMeatballs
08-08-2007, 02:22 AM
Very impressive; go CAL!

Well actually I think that shows how crappy the work rules are that nobody wants to upgrade............. There are planety of senior senior F/O's over there but their QOL would be destroyed if they upgraded, agian this is what I have been told, but hey If you upgrade now and they get a good contract yo are in great shape, cause if the contract is renegotiated and changes for the best, I would imagine it will be long time for a 2005 hire to hold CA, agian Im just guessin:D

Ottopilot
08-08-2007, 03:49 AM
Another reason to bid it now. You can't be displaced when the new contract goes through. You might be junior for a long time, but at least you'll be making money. I thought about bidding 777 FO to experience it, but my seniority is about the same as 737 Captain. Besides, the 16 hour flights and layovers in India didn't attract me to that plane. Also, I like to fly and I'd never "fly" the 777; I'd be an IRO and do my landings every 90 days in a simulator.

A320fumes
08-08-2007, 05:12 AM
deleted...old news

dojetdriver
08-08-2007, 09:35 AM
Just out of curiosity was he a new hire or a flowback?

If it had been flowback, or a flowthrough rather, he would have had a hire date before 05. The new hires in 05 were the Schindler's list/113 (or whatever the number was)/pref-interview guys, in addition to everybody else.

reCALcitrant
08-08-2007, 06:01 PM
I am not sure that so many don't want to upgrade as stated above. I think the bigger factor is the pay differential between 2nd year FO and 2nd year Captain. A 12+year FO on a widebody going to a 737 Capt would only see a 20,000 difference per year. The 2nd year guys see's a 60,000 dollar difference.

7576FO
09-13-2007, 07:46 AM
At AA our idiots are using a "Carmen Bid Line Generator" it sucks. We separate the Dom and Int'l divisions. But this Carmen thing is blurring the lines.

God, I hope we don't get PBS.

My UAL bud likes it though.

TipTip35
09-13-2007, 08:07 AM
Our system actually reaches up and takes trips from senior Pilots in order to build lines as low as it can. It doesn't honor seniority at all and guys half way up the list, (mostly on the 737), are getting 12 days off a month and flying over 90 hours even while requesting a min schedule. There is no open time left over after it runs and it just plain sucks. Its Boeing's Carmen version and it was never tested on anyone but lucky us.

Priority one on our next contract is to dump it.

75Driver (or anyone in the know), can you expound a little more on this PBS? What exactly does "build lines as low as they can" mean? Also are you saying that after a senior pilot bids a line and is awarded it the company comes behind and takes some of those trips away?? Thanks for any info...

757Driver
09-13-2007, 09:23 AM
75Driver (or anyone in the know), can you expound a little more on this PBS? What exactly does "build lines as low as they can" mean? Also are you saying that after a senior pilot bids a line and is awarded it the company comes behind and takes some of those trips away?? Thanks for any info...


In the days of line bidding we were staffed so that we had enough reserves to cover most of our flying and the staffing allowed you to drop or trade trips.

PBS, (at least CAL's sh!tty Carmen version), builds lines lower than ever occurred with line bidding. What I mean by that is that a guy who normally would have been a reserve during line bidding is now flying a line of time with PBS.

Great, you say, more Pilots have lines. There is a price to pay for that system. With other PBS systems, a very senior Pilots line is created then set aside and we move on to the next Pilot.

What CAL's system, (Carmen), does is reach up and take trips from the senior Pilot so that it can build lines down to the lowest possible Pilot assuring that most everyone flys 90+ hours per month.

Our Pilots are flying there asses off and our staffing has never been worse. PBS sucks and I personally will not vote Yes on any proposal that includes it on our upcoming contract.

757Driver
09-13-2007, 09:25 AM
At AA our idiots are using a "Carmen Bid Line Generator" it sucks. We separate the Dom and Int'l divisions. But this Carmen thing is blurring the lines.

God, I hope we don't get PBS.

My UAL bud likes it though.

UAL does not use Carmen software. Run as far away from anything that says either Carmen/Boeing on it. POS software that does not work plus the software geeks are all in Sweden.

sydney5316
09-13-2007, 12:26 PM
In the days of line bidding we were staffed so that we had enough reserves to cover most of our flying and the staffing allowed you to drop or trade trips.

PBS, (at least CAL's sh!tty Carmen version), builds lines lower than ever occurred with line bidding. What I mean by that is that a guy who normally would have been a reserve during line bidding is now flying a line of time with PBS.

Great, you say, more Pilots have lines. There is a price to pay for that system. With other PBS systems, a very senior Pilots line is created then set aside and we move on to the next Pilot.

What CAL's system, (Carmen), does is reach up and take trips from the senior Pilot so that it can build lines down to the lowest possible Pilot assuring that most everyone flys 90+ hours per month.

Our Pilots are flying there asses off and our staffing has never been worse. PBS sucks and I personally will not vote Yes on any proposal that includes it on our upcoming contract.


Then better to pull the "NO" trigger. PBS isn't going anywhere. It's too good for the company and it would be too costly to us to go back.

Frankly....I think it needs to be fixed now since it was a part of contract 02 and it isn't the product we agreed upon.

I'm not going to waste any time with this in contract 08.....this was 02's issues that need to be addressed and addressed from 02's dollars.

As for me.....find a position you are senior on and stay put.

ClipperJet
09-13-2007, 12:54 PM
In the days of line bidding we were staffed so that we had enough reserves to cover most of our flying and the staffing allowed you to drop or trade trips.

PBS, (at least CAL's sh!tty Carmen version), builds lines lower than ever occurred with line bidding. What I mean by that is that a guy who normally would have been a reserve during line bidding is now flying a line of time with PBS.

Great, you say, more Pilots have lines. There is a price to pay for that system. With other PBS systems, a very senior Pilots line is created then set aside and we move on to the next Pilot.

What CAL's system, (Carmen), does is reach up and take trips from the senior Pilot so that it can build lines down to the lowest possible Pilot assuring that most everyone flys 90+ hours per month.

Our Pilots are flying there asses off and our staffing has never been worse. PBS sucks and I personally will not vote Yes on any proposal that includes it on our upcoming contract.

What does "take trips from senior pilots..." mean? Are they still flying 90hrs, or are they now flying a "poor quality" schedule, however they choose to define it?

Does ANYBODY benefit? (Aside from, maybe, the guy whose not sitting reserve anymore...)

Most importantly, Is it possible to build a "good" PBS system?

If so, what would that look like? (I imagine that the pre-PBS lines were generated by some sort of software that attempted to maximize/minimize something, no? As a Tech-No-Geek friend once said, "Hey, it's only software...We can make it do whatever you want."

taylorjets
09-13-2007, 02:08 PM
So let me get this straight:

Zero Open time w/ PBS?

Is it possible to pick up open time at CAL? If so, what does it pay? Also, how does getting Junior Assigned work?



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1