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View Full Version : NWA Pilots


careerpilot
08-10-2007, 06:25 PM
My father is a retired NWA pilot and i am considering coming to work for NWA or Compass. I interview with Compass on AUG 20th and i am wondering what the feeling is about this new airline amoungst current NWA pilots? In your opinion do you feel Compass pilots are stealing your jobs? It is not my intention to harm any Northwest pilots. Some people will sell their souls for a good opportuniy but I have no interest in doing so. Your input would be greatly apperciated.


Slice
08-10-2007, 06:30 PM
What does your father think?

Rosie
08-10-2007, 06:47 PM
Dudes,

This will more than likely be the plane to replace the DC-9 at NWA. The contract has specific language regarding a 100 seat aircraft (note the article mentions the plane is 100+). The pay rate for the 100 seater in the contract is much much much less than the DC-9. The DC-9 had a capacity of about 75 or so in the DC-9 10 version, the DC-9 30 carries about 106 if I remember correctly (these are both with first class configurations). What I wonder is why the reduction in pay for an aircraft with similar capacity. The DC-9 replacement and pay rate as well as with the pull back in the amount of 319 and 320 (about 20 slated to be turned back due to lease agreements or some other reasons) is one of the reason I have moved on from NWA and to a different carrier. I understand morale is pretty bad as well. Good luck.

Here is the article:

FAA certifies Embraer 195
Charlie Lunan
8/10/2007

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has issued the type certificate for the EMBRAER 195 jet, the capstone of its 70-to-100 strategy.

The largest aircraft ever produced by Embraer was certified by its native Brazilian National Civil Aviation Agency and the European Aviation Safety Agency last year.

"With the FAA certificate for the EMBRAER 195, all four E-Jets are now certified by the world's three main aviation safety agencies," said Mauro Kern, Embraer Executive Vice President, Airline Market.

The EMB 195 has a maximum seating capacity of 122 passengers, a range of up to 2,200 nautical miles (4,077 km), and burns up to 45% less fuel than previous jet generations.

Embraer's other E-Jets - the E-170, E-175 and E-190 - carry from 70 to 114 passengers, a segment Embraer is convinced will outgrow all others as airlines replace aging aircraft, downsize to smaller jets on underperforming routes and expand into mid-sized markets as low cost carriers. The company forecasts that 70-110 seat jets will respresent 47 percent of its deliveries over the next 20 years.

JetBlue now flies 25 of Embrear's next smallest E-Jet, the EMB 190. US Airways flies two.


Cheers
Rosie


GliderCFI
08-10-2007, 07:25 PM
I guess I don't understand why anyone would want to go to compass to be treated the way NWA treats all their employees and regional carriers, make crap money to fly airplanes that are essentially replacing the workhorse of the mainline fleet little by little, only to flow to mainline to make more crappy money and be treated like crap some more. Well I guess if you're used to being kicked in the head in the mud with an iron boot then it's ok.....

XtremeF150
08-10-2007, 09:02 PM
My father is a retired NWA pilot and i am considering coming to work for NWA or Compass. I interview with Compass on AUG 20th and i am wondering what the feeling is about this new airline amoungst current NWA pilots? In your opinion do you feel Compass pilots are stealing your jobs? It is not my intention to harm any Northwest pilots. Some people will sell their souls for a good opportuniy but I have no interest in doing so. Your input would be greatly apperciated.

Well, I guess you better quit your job and go back to instructing or flying checks because most mainline pilots feel that the RJ's are taking their jobs. There is definately an increase in the RJ fleets and this horse has been beat to death but, every carrier can find someone that is encroaching on their flying.

I guess what I am saying is if you want to do what many will tell you to do then you will need to quit your regional job and wait to apply to a major until they are paying 300,000 a year. Even if it takes 15 years.
I don't think any pilots I know today want to hurt any other pilot group.

XtremeF150
08-10-2007, 09:19 PM
Dudes,

This will more than likely be the plane to replace the DC-9 at NWA. The contract has specific language regarding a 100 seat aircraft (note the article mentions the plane is 100+). The pay rate for the 100 seater in the contract is much much much less than the DC-9. The DC-9 had a capacity of about 75 or so in the DC-9 10 version, the DC-9 30 carries about 106 if I remember correctly (these are both with first class configurations). What I wonder is why the reduction in pay for an aircraft with similar capacity. The DC-9 replacement and pay rate as well as with the pull back in the amount of 319 and 320 (about 20 slated to be turned back due to lease agreements or some other reasons) is one of the reason I have moved on from NWA and to a different carrier. I understand morale is pretty bad as well. Good luck.

Here is the article:

FAA certifies Embraer 195
Charlie Lunan
8/10/2007

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has issued the type certificate for the EMBRAER 195 jet, the capstone of its 70-to-100 strategy.

The largest aircraft ever produced by Embraer was certified by its native Brazilian National Civil Aviation Agency and the European Aviation Safety Agency last year.

"With the FAA certificate for the EMBRAER 195, all four E-Jets are now certified by the world's three main aviation safety agencies," said Mauro Kern, Embraer Executive Vice President, Airline Market.

The EMB 195 has a maximum seating capacity of 122 passengers, a range of up to 2,200 nautical miles (4,077 km), and burns up to 45% less fuel than previous jet generations.

Embraer's other E-Jets - the E-170, E-175 and E-190 - carry from 70 to 114 passengers, a segment Embraer is convinced will outgrow all others as airlines replace aging aircraft, downsize to smaller jets on underperforming routes and expand into mid-sized markets as low cost carriers. The company forecasts that 70-110 seat jets will respresent 47 percent of its deliveries over the next 20 years.

JetBlue now flies 25 of Embrear's next smallest E-Jet, the EMB 190. US Airways flies two.


Cheers
Rosie

Everyone realizes that CMP doesn't fly EMB 195 or 190's right? Jet Blue yes but CMP no. CMP will be flying 76 seat aircraft...the EMB 175. The same number of seats as the Mesaba CRJ 900's. Why are we not yelling about Mesaba? How about all those 175's at RAH that work under U.S. Airways with 86 seats. I don't think having larger aircraft at the regionals is a good idea any more than the next guy but I am just pointing out that there are Alot of 70+ seat aircraft operating at the regionals today.
The contract that was put in place by the NWA union for CMP is not a bare bones contract by any means. I would venture to say that it is above many contracts that have been worked on for more than a decade. I think for a first contract that was put in place before proving runs were finished, it is right up there with the best. Can anyone name another carrier that had a better contract in place before their service started.

CMP is not perfect, but what carrier is?:confused:

FliFast
08-10-2007, 10:33 PM
CMP is not perfect, but what carrier is?:confused:

There are still good gigs out there. Only luck and fortune telling will reveal if they will still be good, 1 year from now, 5 years from now or on your day of retirement.

I have jumpseated on NWA a bunch of times (and am grateful for the courtesy of their jumpseat), and I have observed that the morale is pretty low and the mistrust of Streeland and his band of merry man is pretty high. As a newhire at any airline, the length of the honeymoon period is strongly influenced by the atmosphere.

Just my two cents, your mileage may vary.

FF

Wildmanny
08-10-2007, 11:53 PM
CMP is not perfect, but what carrier is? :(




Fellas, it is this kind of thinking that is killing us and the industry as a whole. The thrust of this silly statement is: My company (or that company) $ucks but every other one does too and there is nothing I can do about it, so I should just accept it.

Ridiculous. Spineless. Just what they want you to think and how they'd love for you to act--supine! Sickening

You can do something about it--don't go to these terrible outfits. Don't enable $h _ _ty managers like the thieves at Northwest to treat you like the dirt they think you are. No pilots means no airline, it's very simple. There will always be someone tempted to fly for less, just because it is a jet. Don't do it--you're hurting all of us and yourself down the road.

Now, the young man's original question was to go or not to go. Someone in a later post said it best. You can climb hard through the mud of Compass and while doing so, you are helping to erode Northwest from the bottom. Isn't this the place you want to (or are thinking of wanting to) be in the end? Think about it. They will be replacing the DC-9 with the E-175 or whatever and you'll be flying it. There will be no 9 for you to go to. You'll have very limited flowup agreements because the Northwest MEC will be trying to protect their current guys with the flowdown agreement so they can start eroding their own jobs so they can get back to living on a 320. It is a vicious circle over there. You'll be stuck on the backside of the power curve and never moving. Go fly at a good corporate gig and then come back at it. Unless you are comfortable living at home or flying 100 hours a month, it isn't fun flying for a regional carrier. The cities bite and the flight attendants don't make it worth it. Oh, and the public couldn't care less about how hard or glamorous you think your job is.

Don't even get me started on what Northwest will look like when they merge with Delta. It's going to happen boys. Other than fleet compatibility issues, that idea likely has legs and when it does, that _ss of a CEO they have at Compass will sell the thing off for scrap in order to make a bunch of cash, make himself look like a hero, become the CEO of NWA and then eventually parlay that into a CO-CEO of the merged company to make even more money as the eventual winner. How many regional carriers would a merged NWA-DAL need? Not as many as they have right now. Think it can't happen? Ask any of the MidAtlantic guys what they think of him. How do you think he got to Northwest in the first place? He successfully steered USAir into the tank, sold off their parts, and then presto, CFO of Northwest, CEO of Compass and where next? Follow the money boys.

So, the answer to the question is stay away from a sinking ship.

P.S.--I have no axe to grind on NWA, I just think they (management) don't deserve two $hi_s worth of anyone's blood, sweat, and tears. Complete idiots who deserve nothing other than a swift kick in the nads and then another one when they're down. I have an intense loathing of them is all. They've ruined a once fine company and I'm sure the young man's father is none too happy about.

WM
(Pontificator)

Rosie
08-11-2007, 04:57 AM
Everyone realizes that CMP doesn't fly EMB 195 or 190's right? Jet Blue yes but CMP no. CMP will be flying 76 seat aircraft...the EMB 175. The same number of seats as the Mesaba CRJ 900's. Why are we not yelling about Mesaba? How about all those 175's at RAH that work under U.S. Airways with 86 seats. I don't think having larger aircraft at the regionals is a good idea any more than the next guy but I am just pointing out that there are Alot of 70+ seat aircraft operating at the regionals today.
The contract that was put in place by the NWA union for CMP is not a bare bones contract by any means. I would venture to say that it is above many contracts that have been worked on for more than a decade. I think for a first contract that was put in place before proving runs were finished, it is right up there with the best. Can anyone name another carrier that had a better contract in place before their service started.

CMP is not perfect, but what carrier is?:confused:

CMP is not covered by the NWA contract. The only wording in the NWA contact was regarding NEWCO which did become Compass. THe contact only provides for a flow up/down for NWA pilots should they be furloughed. There is nothing in the contract regarding Compass work rules pay etc. The only pay addressed in the NWA contact is for the DC-9 replacement and the contract only discusses a 100 seat or small-jet and pay. NWA has been looking very hard for a 100 seat jet and seem to be very interested in the 190/195. CMP/PNCL/Mesaba are all erroding main line flying at NWA and the "narrowbody floor" (number of DC9 and Airbus 319/320 aircraft) will not be set until one year after NWA exited CH 13. How many DC-9 and 319/320 can be parked in a year. There is a max number of RJ but I do not recall the number and presently the three NWA regionals are pretty far below it if I am correct.

All that being said....if I lived in MSP DTW or MEM I would consider NWA to save the pains of commuting. It just bothers me to get slightly better than RJ wages to fly an aircraft the size of one I previously had flown (DC-9). I aslo see a lot of bottom stagnation at NWA with the narrow bodies being reduced and CMP/PNCL/Mesaba picking up the flying.

Good Luck
Rosie

newKnow
08-11-2007, 06:01 PM
Things are starting to pick up a little. Those who were furloughed once are within 50 spots for the left seat. Anyone who is comming back can at least hold right seat of the 320 on reserve.

Not great. But, not stagnate (for the moment).

XtremeF150
08-11-2007, 09:32 PM
CMP is not covered by the NWA contract. The only wording in the NWA contact was regarding NEWCO which did become Compass. THe contact only provides for a flow up/down for NWA pilots should they be furloughed. There is nothing in the contract regarding Compass work rules pay etc. The only pay addressed in the NWA contact is for the DC-9 replacement and the contract only discusses a 100 seat or small-jet and pay. NWA has been looking very hard for a 100 seat jet and seem to be very interested in the 190/195. CMP/PNCL/Mesaba are all erroding main line flying at NWA and the "narrowbody floor" (number of DC9 and Airbus 319/320 aircraft) will not be set until one year after NWA exited CH 13. How many DC-9 and 319/320 can be parked in a year. There is a max number of RJ but I do not recall the number and presently the three NWA regionals are pretty far below it if I am correct.

All that being said....if I lived in MSP DTW or MEM I would consider NWA to save the pains of commuting. It just bothers me to get slightly better than RJ wages to fly an aircraft the size of one I previously had flown (DC-9). I aslo see a lot of bottom stagnation at NWA with the narrow bodies being reduced and CMP/PNCL/Mesaba picking up the flying.

Good Luck
Rosie

Alright first of all I didn't say we had the same contract as NWA. What we have is the contract that NWA's union set in place for us. Ron Hay's has been watching after the process and updating us and he sounds upbeat about the process as well. I think most of the NWA group knows him. The pay and work rules on the contract aren't half bad compared even to the regionals that have been fighting for the contracts for more than a decade. Now when we you are attacking my posts make sure you read them first.;)

Next, there is no one at CMP that want's to see the demise of NWA. We are not flying an a/c that is the same size as the 9. WE FLY THE E-175. That is the same size a/c that Mesaba is flying already for NWA. That doesn't mean this is great for NWA but it is hardly 125 seats. We have 60% of the seats the 9 does. So since that is about the same ratio the 9 has to the 757 does that mean that the 9 is taking flying away from the 757. I guess I like to take a scientific look at things rather than taking the rumors I've heard around the crew room. The CMP pilots WILL back up the NWA group when it comes time. We have a great bunch of guys coming on property. NWA is screening these guys. They are interviewed by retired NWA CA's. Most of the pilots here have at least 2 or 3 Airline type ratings already, with several I have met having types on DC-10's , 747-400's, and other widebody a/c. So you say why are they at CMP then. Well most thought starting at the TOP of a seniority list making 60-65k to start wasn't that bad why they waited to be recalled at other airlines or simply to stop spending 18 - 20 days on the road only to commute back to MSP at the end of a nearly month long trip. Many have applications at majors as well. I suppose any of you would take the hit though and go get a job at Walmart rather than take 2nd to 3rd year major pay immediately and stay on the flightdeck?

You want to know where the replacement for the 9 is? The 195 just received certification in the U.S., so you guys at NWA make sure it stays on property and you have your 100+ seat a/c. In fact, why don't you get the 175 back on property and then there won't be any CMP pilots flying them.

Right now CMP is hiring VERY high time pilots, but it won't stay that way. At least they are not filling the seats with 1500 hour CA's and 250 hour F.O.'s.
If NWA takes the 175 back I will be the first to offer them my blessings.

I really enjoy talking to the other people that like flying on this board. We all do or we wouldn't spend so much time reading all the same posts day after day. I really wish we could focus more energy on regaining what has been lost. In the near future all will see mngmt's ability to torture reduced as pilot #'s are quickly dwindling. The time to strike back is coming. Let's all try to focus on that. Sorry for the book guys...nothing better to do on a Saturday night I guess.:rolleyes:

XtremeF150
08-11-2007, 09:40 PM
CMP is not perfect, but what carrier is? :(




Fellas, it is this kind of thinking that is killing us and the industry as a whole. The thrust of this silly statement is: My company (or that company) $ucks but every other one does too and there is nothing I can do about it, so I should just accept it.

Ridiculous. Spineless. Just what they want you to think and how they'd love for you to act--supine! Sickening

You can do something about it--don't go to these terrible outfits. Don't enable $h _ _ty managers like the thieves at Northwest to treat you like the dirt they think you are. No pilots means no airline, it's very simple. There will always be someone tempted to fly for less, just because it is a jet. Don't do it--you're hurting all of us and yourself down the road.



So tell me which regional airline has a better gig right now than CMP for a pilot that lives in MSP/DTW/MEM?:confused:

Rosie
08-12-2007, 08:59 AM
Xtreme,

Don't be so xtremely defensive. I did not suggest Compass was getting the 190/95. I do know very well that Compass is and will be getting 170/75. I did say the NWA contract (for the mainline) has a provision for mainline pilots flying the new narrowbody with a payscale on the mainline for the new narrowbody being slightly better than regional jet pay rates.

I will tell you there are some dudes flying the mainline that do resent Compass. I've read in alpa post that some of these guys don't appreciate the Compass pilots taking mainline flying. Just rewriting what other NWA mainline pilots are writing in their alpa posts. Now in response to the original poster...I don't believe that down the line a RJ guy will be blackballed by mainline guys when it comes to crossing into the mainline.

It is a fact that the DC-9 will be replaced and NWA (mainline) has a provision in the contract regarding pay for the 100 seat mainline narrowbody aircraft. NWA seems to be very interested in the 190/195 as a DC9 replacement for the mainline. Please note that I mentioned the 190/95 going to the mainline not Compass.

NWA regionals are taking a large share of the mainline flying (domestic). This will result in bottom stagnation at NWA. NWA has opened the application window to fill the slots of the dudes not returning and others (some with over 10 years seniority) moving on to other flying jobs. If there are upgrades for real junior dudes....it is because the contract work rules are so brutal that a guy is better staying a senior FO.

Anyway...I'm kinda done with this thread.

Good Luck Dudes.

Rosie