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Bucking Bar
08-11-2007, 10:01 AM
Just curious what people with experience flying all of these types might say about day to day line flying with these aircraft.

The MD88/90 with non powered flight controls, grabby brakes and a cockpit design directly related to its Type Certificate being issued in 1962 looks like a handful to train in and fly.

The 737, even the new generation, might have the same issues due to commonality with its earlier Certificate.

The 757/767/767-400 and even the 777 appear to hold to a single Boeing design philosophy and way of doing things. From the articles I've read they are straightforward, responsive and real pilots' airplanes.

As a guy who lives in domicile and who used to bid reserve anyway just to get some weekends off, I'm trying to decide if it is worth bidding something that I will be on reserve on for the rest of this decade and part of next - or flying the MD88 with middle seniority in a year.


B757200ER
08-11-2007, 11:14 AM
Just curious what people with experience flying all of these types might say about day to day line flying with these aircraft.

The MD88/90 with non powered flight controls, grabby brakes and a cockpit design directly related to its Type Certificate being issued in 1962 looks like a handful to train in and fly.

The 737, even the new generation, might have the same issues due to commonality with its earlier Certificate.

The 757/767/767-400 and even the 777 appear to hold to a single Boeing design philosophy and way of doing things. From the articles I've read they are straightforward, responsive and real pilots' airplanes.

MD88 is CAKE, a simple jet that is easy to learn and fly, and won't bite you.

B-737, easy to fly, learn and getting longer legs (like BOS-LAX).

B-757/767, great airplanes, easy to learn, over-powered, easy to fly and best trips in the DAL system. What domicile?

Bucking Bar
08-11-2007, 01:17 PM
Sounds like all good choices for a DAL new hire in ATL.

This is the first time I've heard the MD88 described as "cake."


rickair7777
08-11-2007, 01:21 PM
I've never flown any of them, but I'm sure i'd prefer the 777... since it pays more. :D

Split S
08-11-2007, 01:44 PM
How long would a new hire sit reserve on the 737 or the 757 out of ATL? I'm hoping to catch either one of the last spots on the Aug 20 class, otherwise I've been told expect the 3 Sep class.

-SS

Bucking Bar
08-11-2007, 02:08 PM
My semi educated guess based on openings is 6 to 8 months reserve on the 88, a year to a little more on the 737 and the 757.... well let me put it this way... seniority #00630 out of 7,000 is a 757FO. The senior 757/767 FO's all could hold Captain on the 765 or 777 Category.

Split S
08-11-2007, 02:24 PM
My semi educated guess based on openings is 6 to 8 months reserve on the 88, a year to a little more on the 737 and the 757.... well let me put it this way... seniority #00630 out of 7,000 is a 757FO. The senior 757/767 FO's all could hold Captain on the 765 or 777 Category.

*laugh*

Roger that.

I can't wait to get started!

Deez340
08-11-2007, 03:38 PM
Just curious what people with experience flying all of these types might say about day to day line flying with these aircraft.

The MD88/90 with non powered flight controls, grabby brakes and a cockpit design directly related to its Type Certificate being issued in 1962 looks like a handful to train in and fly.

The 737, even the new generation, might have the same issues due to commonality with its earlier Certificate.

The 757/767/767-400 and even the 777 appear to hold to a single Boeing design philosophy and way of doing things. From the articles I've read they are straightforward, responsive and real pilots' airplanes.

As a guy who lives in domicile and who used to bid reserve anyway just to get some weekends off, I'm trying to decide if it is worth bidding something that I will be on reserve on for the rest of this decade and part of next - or flying the MD88 with middle seniority in a year.

the maddog is funner than a barrel of monkeys. with its FMS and "digital" (i use the term loosely) flight guidance system it's as though someone bolted a Commodore64 onto a 57' Chevy. i would trade seniority for aircraft type any day. but as you can tell i have. i could hold much more but with PBS seniority means more than ever.:D

HSLD
08-11-2007, 04:05 PM
The MD88/90 with non powered flight controls, grabby brakes and a cockpit design directly related to its Type Certificate being issued in 1962 looks like a handful to train in and fly.


I'll sacrifice grabby brakes for quality of life any day! I've never flown the DC9, although the flight controls must have hydraulic actuators out there, right?

de727ups
08-11-2007, 04:21 PM
IMHO, when you get to this level, it's about what works best for you QOL and pay wise. What the airframe is, is the last time I worry about.

That said, the 757/767 is a fine machine....

Doug Masters
08-11-2007, 04:38 PM
I'll sacrifice grabby brakes for quality of life any day! I've never flown the DC9, although the flight controls must have hydraulic actuators out there, right?

Nope....cables, pullies, and trim tabs for DC-9/MD80s.

HercDriver130
08-11-2007, 04:40 PM
Hell even the old Herky bird had hydraulically actuated ailerons...lol
The Original "A" models circa mid 1950's actually had quite a roll rate as they had 3000 psi actuators...on the B's and later models they reduced the pressure to 1500 psi.

Xray678
08-11-2007, 04:41 PM
Nope....cables, pullies, and trim tabs for DC-9/MD80s.

Rudder is hydraulic. Rest is as he said above.

Incedently the 707, twice as heavy as the 9/80, has pretty much the same system...powered rudder, rest cables/pullies/tabs.

CVG767A
08-12-2007, 04:55 AM
[QUOTE=B757200ER;212944]MD88 is CAKE, a simple jet that is easy to learn and fly, and won't bite you.

I've got 10,000+ hours in the MD88, and I wouldn't call it easy to fly. It has more things that will bite you in the butt than any other airplane I've flown; the necessity to lead the autothrottles at level off from a descent and the ability to break an altitude capture are the most significant.

Every control input has a delayed reaction; with a gusty crosswind landing, you're doing some serious work to get the jet on the ground.

That being said, it's a very quiet cockpit, and the amount of technique required to fly it well, makes it a fun plane to fly.

Flare Armed
08-12-2007, 06:50 AM
I'd have to agree with CVG767A....the Mad Dog will bite you, but when you learn to fly it smoothly and consistently it can be rewarding. Anybody can fly a Boeing nicely, but the MD88 takes some work and thought.

I still wish I had a better yoke light on the -800.

skybolt
08-12-2007, 07:12 AM
As a guy who lives in domicile and who used to bid reserve anyway just to get some weekends off, I'm trying to decide if it is worth bidding something that I will be on reserve on for the rest of this decade and part of next - or flying the MD88 with middle seniority in a year.

It's always about QOL my friend! Take the Maddog. besides, you will reflect back to the Douglas sometime in the future and realize what a privilege it was to fly a real airplane.

In my experience, the Douglas has only a few drawbacks for it's pilot.
1. the cockpit is hot during ground ops when compared to almost anything modern.
2. you get stuck down low and have to fight the w/x compared to the NG 73's
3. the automation takes some getting used to, but once mastered it does a fine job. (I'd much rather manage the Douglas than manage the Airbus, but then I have a VOR/DME mind, not a point to point mind)

On the positive side, the Douglas is a tank. You've got 50 Kts more speed to work with for flap/slat extension. You could fly through a thermonuclear EMP and still fly because you don't need any electricity to fly the jet. Matter of fact, you could suffer a total hydraulic failure followed by a total electrical failure and still fly the jet as long as you were VMC. Unlike my current airbus which would just fall out of the clear blue sky in that situation.

sorry to run on there bud, I do miss the Douglas.

CVG767A
08-12-2007, 07:58 AM
As a guy who lives in domicile and who used to bid reserve anyway just to get some weekends off, I'm trying to decide if it is worth bidding something that I will be on reserve on for the rest of this decade and part of next - or flying the MD88 with middle seniority in a year.

Just to respond to the original post:Those Boeings are great to fly, but I'd rather fly a Maddog on a Wednesday than a Boeing on a Saturday.

Bucking Bar
08-12-2007, 12:18 PM
Those Boeings are great to fly, but I'd rather fly a Maddog on a Wednesday than a Boeing on a Saturday.Great quote. Thanks everyone.

skybolt
08-12-2007, 12:35 PM
Just to respond to the original post:Those Boeings are great to fly, but I'd rather fly a Maddog on a Wednesday than a Boeing on a Saturday.

I completely concur. I was trying to say that before I got hit with a wave of Douglas nostalgia.

shackone
08-12-2007, 02:33 PM
I started out flying the Dash 10s and went up through the 30s, 40s, 50s, and 80s. The bigger and heavier they got, the less enjoyable they became to fly for me.

The 30 series was the best for me. Nicely balanced airplane...and a great example of why hydraulic controls aren't that necessary in a transport class aircraft.

B757200ER
08-12-2007, 04:35 PM
[QUOTE=B757200ER;212944]MD88 is CAKE, a simple jet that is easy to learn and fly, and won't bite you.

I've got 10,000+ hours in the MD88, and I wouldn't call it easy to fly. It has more things that will bite you in the butt than any other airplane I've flown; the necessity to lead the autothrottles at level off from a descent and the ability to break an altitude capture are the most significant.

I found it easy, forgiving and low-workload, that's all. I have just under 3000 hours in MD80s/81s/82s/83s/88s and I thought the Glass MD88 was the best and easiest of the bunch. Real easy to fly, quiet and had great trips.

Xray678
08-12-2007, 04:39 PM
I started out flying the Dash 10s and went up through the 30s, 40s, 50s, and 80s. The bigger and heavier they got, the less enjoyable they became to fly for me.

The 30 series was the best for me. Nicely balanced airplane...and a great example of why hydraulic controls aren't that necessary in a transport class aircraft.


I've flown the -20, -30, -88 and -90. And I agree....overall the -30 was the best of the bunch.

aa73
08-13-2007, 11:15 AM
[QUOTE=CVG767A;213252]

I found it easy, forgiving and low-workload, that's all. I have just under 3000 hours in MD80s/81s/82s/83s/88s and I thought the Glass MD88 was the best and easiest of the bunch. Real easy to fly, quiet and had great trips.

Hey B757, I know you are ex TWA. Did you go to DAL? Since you mentioned the -88.

Agreed, the MD series are a blast to fly.... just because it's true flying with cables and pulleys, and you can shut everything off and still fly just fine. Built like a tank, and you have the pleasure of working hard to get smooth results, which makes you an "artiste." I for one will miss it when I "upgrade".

73

B757200ER
08-13-2007, 07:45 PM
[QUOTE=aa73;213952][QUOTE=B757200ER;213576]

Hey B757, I know you are ex TWA. Did you go to DAL? Since you mentioned the -88.[QUOTE]

No, I got furloughed, went to a charter airline.

vroll1800
08-14-2007, 09:46 AM
I've flown the 10,30, and 40 series, basically agree with shackone. The 10 was more fun, powerwise, but the 30's nicer overall (esp. approach config. changes, and in winter deice concerns). While the 9's ailerons are manual control tabs, you get hydraulic roll spoiler assist with >5 deg. control wheel deflection. The 767 is a real nice airplane, not as fun as the 9, but nicer to live with, especially cockpit a/c.

FliFast
08-14-2007, 12:07 PM
The MD80 series is cake except at high altitude....remember the recent memo on our message board, !!!

The 80 series climbs with the best of them to FL250 then runs outta juice but it has a very quiet cockpit. The airplane will go down and slow down because it has no wing and it has a very high slat-extension speed. But the downside of this is that you don't have the capability to climb out of or above the weather like you do in the Boeings and the aircraft's ECON cruise speed is slower than both the Boeings. In general, I found the MD80-83 jets the easiest to fly of all of them, but the system logic did not make as much sense to me as the Boeings...i.e. those silly mirrors on the glareshield to view the mag compass above the F/o's shoulder. I always thought it was to view the F/As. And what the heck is a flying tail....Finally, the on-ground, air conditioning (APU) was very deficient on the MD 80-83. If you need to lose weight, fly the 80 !!!

The FMS in DAL's MD88's are similar to those in the NG and the 757/767.

The 737NG has a nice instrument display, a good high altitude wing and lands nicely. The cockpit is a little tight like the MD88 and the passenger cabin has nice overhead space, but has a typical "pack em in" Boeing cabin vis-a-vis the Airbus or MD80, 2-3 configuration. I did the type in the 737 classic, but never flew the plane, so take my comments on the 737 with a grain of salt.

The 757 is my favorite. A hot rod, that taxi's, takeoffs, cruises and lands smoothly. A big cockpit only rivaled by it's big brother's cockpits and those of it's trijet passenger competitors. The airplane is overpowered and can cruise in the upper 30's all the way to the lower 40's. On a ferry flight, we made it to FL410, in just under 19 minutes. I know it's not a Viper, but for an airliner it was impressive. The drawback, the 757 isn't very fast compared to it's bigger brothers. Normal cruise is around M.79-.80

The 767 is a nice flying jet. I don't find it as smooth as the 757, possibly because of the dual ailerons, but those with more aeronautical background might be able to throw in a few comments. The airplane taxis ok and cruises slightly faster than the 757. The airplane lands nicely and has a spacious cockpit.

Best of luck whichever one you fly.

FF

aa73
08-14-2007, 01:27 PM
Finally, the on-ground, air conditioning (APU) was very deficient on the MD 80-83. If you need to lose weight, fly the 80 !!!

AA put in the bigger APUs that cool the cabin quite nicely, the trick is to get a head start on the descent (full cold coming through FL180). Those bigger APUs put out some nice airflow.... now if we could just get those pro management moronic pilots to actually crank it during hot days!

80drvr
08-14-2007, 07:13 PM
I'll sacrifice grabby brakes for quality of life any day! I've never flown the DC9, although the flight controls must have hydraulic actuators out there, right?

No. At least hydraulic failures aren't that big a deal.

filejw
08-14-2007, 07:28 PM
This is a joke right? Show up for work and fly the A/C ...its not rocket science... Bid the A/c that gives you the best deal for QOL.I prefer long haul..More days off.Next month I fly three 3 days worth 78:45



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