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View Full Version : Delta Info


sully606
08-14-2007, 08:29 AM
Hello everyone,

This is my first post. I've been lurking for awhile and I must say that it is nice to see some positive things going on at Delta and the generaly upbeat attitude of this forum.
I'm not crazy enough to think all is rosy at Delta but having lived through the last six years, new hiring and aircraft orders are a welcome sign (until the next industry downturn).
I can't anwser any questions about the hiring process but I'd thought I'd put out a few bits of info that people seem to be interested in from previous posts.

disclaimer: This info may not be totally accurate and it ALL subject to change. I have NO inside knowledge; these are my best guesses.

Some stats as of Aug 07:

most junior seniority # 6950

retirements through 2017 ~2245 at age 60

retirements through 2022 ~4436 at age 60

So in 6950 will be 4436 in ten years and 2245 in 15 years

A bid for a net 609 slots has been posted. My very uneducated guess is this is probably the first of three large bids in the short term (next year or so). As far as I can tell the current bid covers one of six new 777 coming next year and approx. five of the 10-13 757 entering the fleet. Longer term 10 737-700 and maybe 20 MD-90s plus additional 777s.

Pilot bases/most junior captain:

ATL 777/1202 , 76-4/1507, 76ER/2589, 76dom/3172, 73-8/3485, M88/4612

NYC 76ER/3294, 73-8/4183, M88/5210

CVG 76dom/2569, M88/2766

LAX 76-4/1090, 76dom/3179

SLC 76dom/2939, 73-8/3093, M88/3662

These numbers could change with future changes in the contract (better reserve etc.). The LAX base is now relatively junior but they are reducing the 767-400 time so who knows about the future. The CVG base has been shrinking and now is quite small. NYC is continuing to grow and will probably always be junior, there is talk about adding the 767-400 and 777 (no guarantees). I don't know much about SLC. Atl is king.

As far as flying different aircraft types I think you can get used to anything so you got to pick by seniority and quality of trips. The MD-80 in ATL is much like regional flying-- in and out of ATL 3-5 times a day. The 737-8 has much better trips and is close in pay to the 76/75. All AC fly some international but in my opinion the European flying is the best in the system. There is talk about new hires going to 767ER in JFK in my opinion this is great flying but it's tough being on reserve and you'll have problems getting comfortable in the aircraft with so few opportunities to fly (the 767 is the best AC I've flown though).

Delta is not out of the woods yet but baring another huge downturn or lousy CEO this may be a good time to get on with Delta. I can't tell you how it stacks up to the other carriers- there's many other good choices. Good luck and I hope this helps.


HercDriver130
08-14-2007, 08:55 AM
Wow...good info thanks.

Bucking Bar
08-14-2007, 09:40 AM
Great first post; welcome.


Lifeisgood
08-15-2007, 05:05 AM
Thanks for the good info!

1. Any rumors on the 100 seaters? And what is Delta's scope, 90 passengers?
2. What is the time frame to fill those 609 slots?

Thanks

Bucking Bar
08-15-2007, 06:15 AM
No 100 seat rumors. The facts are Delta says it can not find a "suitable" 100 seat aircraft while it contracts for 90 seat jets configured to 76 seats. Delta's ALPA unit has negotiated rates below Comair and I think below ASA's rates to fly these big RJ types, but there are much more to operational expenses than pilot wages (lease costs, good deals due to size of fleet, etc...)

It is my opinion that Delta will probably try to move the scope bar up to the limit of their CRJ900's and E jets. Of course we hope that does not happen. The 737-700 is coming to Delta with 10 on order. That is a 100 seat jet. But only expect it in limited numbers for long routes and hot high airports in South America. There are rumors of 20 or so MD90's which would priced in such a way as to make them a 100 seat alternative.

But don't expect any big 100 seat news until Boeing designs a 737 follow on using 787 technology.

The plan is for somewhere around 30 to 31 for the next DAL class, then 35 every two weeks until December when there will be a little pause for the holidays and the plan for 2008 is completed. (This is second hand rumor, but it sounds correct)

I don't know if there are 609 new hire positions. If I'm not mistaken there are something like 250 new hire openings to back fill everyone else going up the stovepipe. At 70 a month that would probably be close to the remainder of this year. The cut off for this bid was just behind my class and there are already 70 or so behind us. The numbers work out close to having this bid staffed by the end of the year (I think). There will be future bids - this is not the last one!

sully606
08-15-2007, 08:15 AM
Delta currently has payrates for the EMB195, EMB190 and the CRJ900 as follows:

[email protected] years 111.54 capt
2 years 57.35 fo

EMB190/[email protected] 7 years 94.89 capt
2 years 49.61 fo

Under the current contract, the permitted connection carrier types are limited to 76 seats and max gross TO wt. of 86,000 lb.

The 76 seat jets can be increased by 15 jets in 2007 and 30 jets 2008 and beyond. The total number of 70 and 76 seat jets cannot exceed 200.

Once the regional jets exceed the 15/30 in 07'/08' the remaining additional RJs can be added at a 3:1 ratio to mainline.

The 737-700 is not a 100 seat jet. The configuration will be two class approx. 126 seats. It is a niche AC for long/high alt. thin routes.

The 609 slots will be fill between Sep07 and Mar08. Some of these slots are new hire positions but most are for additional flying. Since there is a large increase in senior positions ther should be a lot of movement due to the domino effect. The 609 number has nothing directly to do with newhire numbers.

DALPA has not had a good record on the RJ growth issue. Having said that I've heard the CEO, CFO, COO, the SenVP flt.ops., MEC chairman and various other high level management types say all jets over 76 will be flown by mainline (we have the payrates). Also the 70/76 seat jets will be mostly be replacements for the 50 seaters.

Xray678
08-15-2007, 08:22 AM
The 609 slots will be fill between Sep07 and Mar08. Some of these slots are new hire positions but most are for additional flying. Since there is a large increase in senior positions ther should be a lot of movement due to the domino effect. The 609 number has nothing directly to do with newhire numbers.


small point, but there are only about 530 slots to be filled on this bid. The 75 or so ER FO slots in NYC and ATL are duplicates. Its not 150 total, its 75 total. If all 75 are filled in NYC....none will be filled in ATL. If 30 are filled in NYC, then 45 will be filled in ATL. This is their solution to the staffin problem in NYC. If they can't get people to bid NYC, they will add the slots in ATL and deadhead you up to JFK to start your trips.

There is a memo about this posted outside the CPO in ATL for any Delta pilot who wants to read it. Also says next bid in Nov.

Lifeisgood
08-15-2007, 11:07 AM
...Once the regional jets exceed the 15/30 in 07'/08' the remaining additional RJs can be added at a 3:1 ratio to mainline.


Sorry I don't understand the ratio here. 3 RJ to say SkyWest : 1 ...(what?) to mailine?

Thanks for good info.

sully606
08-15-2007, 11:13 AM
Good point about the 76ER FOs, since I dont' fly through ATL I haven't seen the letter. I guess this means if they don't fill the bids in NYC the ATL FOs will be flying NYC time?

To further clarify the bid has quite a few possitions that are just a shift in flying (no growth with these just moving existing time from one base to another).

sully606
08-15-2007, 11:19 AM
Sorry I don't understand the ratio here. 3 RJ to say SkyWest : 1 ...(what?) to mailine?

Thanks for good info.

Yes, a snapshot of the Delta mainline fleet was taken on I think Jan 1,07'; this was the baseline. After the 15/30 of 07'/08' are added any more RJs will require a mainline AC for every three additional RJs.

Bucking Bar
08-15-2007, 01:39 PM
Sully, does the 49% of block hours still apply, or will this result in more block hours being flown at DCI than mainline?

Thank you for the good information and correcting my error on the 737-700 seating.

Xray678
08-15-2007, 02:05 PM
does the 49% of block hours still apply, or will this result in more block hours being flown at DCI than mainline?

Thank you for the good information and correcting my error on the 737-700 seating.



I don't think there are block hour limitations any more.

To clarify on the scope with regards to 70 and 76 seaters......the company was allowed to outsource 15 76 seaters in 07 and 15 in 08. Those numbers can be increased in each year by three RJs for each mainline airplane you add. With the 10 757s coming in 07, that gives them 30 more RJ76s for a total of 45.

The combined total of 70 and 76 seat RJs is limited to 200, with no conditions to add more (until of course Lee Moak and his band give away even more scope).

Split S
08-15-2007, 03:43 PM
I apologize for my ignorance, but understand I am completely new to commercial aviation coming from a military background... but

What is scope? What does it mean and how does it affect a companies ops?

-SS

Xray678
08-15-2007, 04:40 PM
I apologize for my ignorance, but understand I am completely new to commercial aviation coming from a military background... but

What is scope? What does it mean and how does it affect a companies ops?

scope is the section of a working agreement that defines the work you are contractually entitled too........the scope of the work you will perform.

In the case of pilots it usually defines which airplanes will be flown by that airlines pilots, and which airplanes can be outsourced. It does get much more complicated than that. For example, most major airlines pilots are entitled to the widebody flying at their airline, yet thier airline can also place its passengers on a code share partner flying a widebody.

acl65pilot
08-15-2007, 06:11 PM
In reference to the AE. It is my understanding that if there are positions posted, then they obligated to fill them. Currently there are about 30 people that have bid the 7ER in NYC. For this reason there will not be an issue with over staffing the fleet, but when they post openings, these numbers are the min that they can award not the max.

aa73
08-15-2007, 06:49 PM
yeah, but you guys have to wear hats.... that sucks. :eek:

SherpaLifter
08-15-2007, 07:02 PM
Sully,

The retirement numbers you list seem a bit high for age 60. Do you have a source?

Xray678
08-15-2007, 07:11 PM
In reference to the AE. It is my understanding that if there are positions posted, then they obligated to fill them. Currently there are about 30 people that have bid the 7ER in NYC. For this reason there will not be an issue with over staffing the fleet, but when they post openings, these numbers are the min that they can award not the max.

actually that's not true. Depending on training availability (which the company controls) all posted vacancies may or may not be awarded. I have seen many bids in the past where some categories had less awards than the posted number of vacancies.

sully606
08-15-2007, 07:20 PM
In reference to the AE. It is my understanding that if there are positions posted, then they obligated to fill them.

I'm not sure if I understand your question. In the recent past there was an AE that had 737-800 positions opened and the company did not fill them all, I don't remember the reason.

Currently there are about 30 people that have bid the 7ER in NYC. For this reason there will not be an issue with over staffing the fleet, but when they post openings, these numbers are the min that they can award not the max.

Normally there will be more pilots receive bids than the numbers required in a category because pilots currently in the category will move out.

Example: 30 pilots required for 777 FO
10 777 FOs bid off to 767 Capt.
40 pilots receive bids to the 777 FO

Xray678
08-15-2007, 07:34 PM
Normally there will be more pilots receive bids than the numbers required in a category because pilots currently in the category will move out.

Example: 30 pilots required for 777 FO
10 777 FOs bid off to 767 Capt.
40 pilots receive bids to the 777 FO


keep in mind though they don't have to backfill contingency vacancies. You need to look at the staffing forecast that accompanies the bid to see where they want to take each category. The post bid results usually get us pretty close to the numbers in this document.

sully606
08-15-2007, 07:40 PM
keep in mind though they don't have to backfill contingency vacancies. You need to look at the staffing forecast that accompanies the bid to see where they want to take each category. The post bid results usually get us pretty close to the numbers in this document.

True statement, I was trying not to be to complicated. The projected category forecast for the second quarter 08' looks pretty close to this current AE.

myflatsix
08-15-2007, 11:02 PM
I'm interested in submitting an app at DL. Can anyone answer my questions?
-Are New-Hires able to hold LAX or SLC?
-What are the min. days off for reserves and line holders?
-What is the average Time Away From Base for a line holder in LAX and SLC on the jr. aircraft types?

acl65pilot
08-16-2007, 04:19 AM
It will be interesting to see how junior some of these wide bodies go. I would venture to guess that you will see first year guys on the ER and depending on how many 400 FO move to CA a few there. Looking from where I sit there are only 40 or so people senior to me that have the 765 B position bid. With the CA slots open it could get interesting.

sully606
08-16-2007, 05:38 AM
It will be interesting to see how junior some of these wide bodies go. I would venture to guess that you will see first year guys on the ER and depending on how many 400 FO move to CA a few there. Looking from where I sit there are only 40 or so people senior to me that have the 765 B position bid. With the CA slots open it could get interesting.

If by CA you mean LAX, it looks like the 767-400 may be dead there. The latest AE has LAX 767-400 shrinking from 53 to 33 by Mar08. In the short term ( next couple of years ), LAX may just be a 76/75 base.

Tomcat
08-16-2007, 06:27 AM
The word is that the remaining seats on the LAX767-400 will be gone with a NOV advanced Entitlement.

Xray678
08-16-2007, 08:23 AM
The word is that the remaining seats on the LAX767-400 will be gone with a NOV advanced Entitlement.


I have heard the 765 in LAX will be gone in the next bid or two. LAX will get an ER category, and if we end up with some MD-90s I would not be surprised to see an 88 base in LAX.

I think this bid will go very junior in some areas. The ER FOs in NYC and ATL will go down to people still in new hire training. I think the ER captain in NYC will get down to about 3600-3700 on the seniority list (mid to late 91 hire). 73N Captain in NYC down to about a mid 97 hire. 88 captain in NYC is already down to a 98 hire and I would not be surprised to see someone hired in 99 slip in there.

Bucking Bar
08-16-2007, 08:35 AM
When are the results known?

Xray678
08-16-2007, 08:42 AM
When are the results known?


the AE closed today at noon. Depending on the size of the bid, the results can take a day or two. I think we will see them by 5pm tomorrow.

Tomcat
08-16-2007, 03:50 PM
if we end up with some MD-90s I would not be surprised to see an 88 base in LAX.

.
That's the rumor...... I'll be more than happy to fly the 90, flew it in SLC. Kind of like dating a wild woman, a lot of fun, just don't take your eye of of it for a second, no telling where it will get off to......

CE750
08-16-2007, 04:44 PM
Hey guys, rather than start a new thread on DAL, and rather than pile onto the mega thread. I hope I can ask a few questions in this thread..

I wonder, on the PRIA paperwork they send you.. Do you need to fill out an 8060-11 for EACH prior 121/135 you worked for?

Also, what is the "information page" on the passport? is that the part with your hand written info you're suppose to fill out? or is that the first page with your passport #, etc?

thanks

RockyBoy
08-16-2007, 05:00 PM
That's the rumor...... I'll be more than happy to fly the 90, flew it in SLC. Kind of like dating a wild woman, a lot of fun, just don't take your eye of of it for a second, no telling where it will get off to......

:):):)..........

HVYinRESERVE
08-16-2007, 05:36 PM
I wonder, on the PRIA paperwork they send you.. Do you need to fill out an 8060-11 for EACH prior 121/135 you worked for?

Also, what is the "information page" on the passport? is that the part with your hand written info you're suppose to fill out? or is that the first page with your passport #, etc?

thanks

Fill out the paperwork for each 121/135 company you worked for and if you were military, one for that as well.

The information page on your passport is the one with your picture, passport #, expiration date, etc. on it.

Good luck with the interview...:)

I got the email saying I am cleared for training. Just waiting for phone call...:D

CE750
08-16-2007, 05:51 PM
Fill out the paperwork for each 121/135 company you worked for and if you were military, one for that as well.

The information page on your passport is the one with your picture, passport #, expiration date, etc. on it.

Good luck with the interview...:)

I got the email saying I am cleared for training. Just waiting for phone call...:D

thanks for the info Bro! Look forward to maybe seeing you and the rest on the line! Hope I can just past those cog/tech tests!

ExtenderBender
08-16-2007, 07:27 PM
Sully,

The retirement numbers you list seem a bit high for age 60. Do you have a source?

The scheduled retirements through 2017 = 2428 / 2022 = 4727. Here is the list broken down by year group:

YEAR RETIREMENTS
2007 19
2008 61
2009 75
2010 89
2011 133
2012 158
2013 218
2014 273
2015 348
2016 483
2017 571
2018 548
2019 543
2020 470
2021 419
2022 319
2023 308
2024 306
2025 325

If you want to be an optimist you could even throw in the expected 1000 new hires rumor in the next two years and subtract the next two years worth of retirements, and viola, you have a pilot group of around 8000. That makes those numbers look sweet. Enjoy!

sully606
08-16-2007, 08:36 PM
The scheduled retirements through 2017 = 2428 / 2022 = 4727. Here is the list broken down by year group:

YEAR RETIREMENTS
2007 19
2008 61
2009 75
2010 89
2011 133
2012 158
2013 218
2014 273
2015 348
2016 483
2017 571
2018 548
2019 543
2020 470
2021 419
2022 319
2023 308
2024 306
2025 325

If you want to be an optimist you could even throw in the expected 1000 new hires rumor in the next two years and subtract the next two years worth of retirements, and viola, you have a pilot group of around 8000. That makes those numbers look sweet. Enjoy!

Your number are slightly different than mine but it looks like we got them from the same source--you've just done better in the math. For the new hires these numbers look pretty good. It's always best to get in at the beginning of a hiring cycle.

Xray678
08-17-2007, 04:00 PM
I think this bid will go very junior in some areas. The ER FOs in NYC and ATL will go down to people still in new hire training. I think the ER captain in NYC will get down to about 3600-3700 on the seniority list (mid to late 91 hire). 73N Captain in NYC down to about a mid 97 hire. 88 captain in NYC is already down to a 98 hire and I would not be surprised to see someone hired in 99 slip in there.

Bid results out and I pretty much nailed it. ER FO in NYC and ATL went to people still in, or just out of, new hire training.

ER captain in NYC went down to mid 3600s in seniority (late 91 hire).

73N captain in NYC went to a late 97 hire. In ATL 73N captain went to a late 96 hire.

88 captain in NYC went down to late 99 hire....in ATL down to early 98 hire.

slinky
08-17-2007, 04:43 PM
Fill out the paperwork for each 121/135 company you worked for and if you were military, one for that as well.

The information page on your passport is the one with your picture, passport #, expiration date, etc. on it.

Good luck with the interview...:)

I got the email saying I am cleared for training. Just waiting for phone call...:D

Congrats my friend.

RockyBoy
08-17-2007, 04:47 PM
And for those SLC hopefuls:

SLC 75/6 CA #1538 June1988 hire
SLC 73N CA #3502 Oct 91 hire
SLC M90 CA 3885 Jan 97 hire

SLC 75/6 FO July 16th hire
SLC 73N FO July 16th hire
SLC M90 FO Aug 6 hire

Not taking too long to get to SLC for newhires.

coryk
08-18-2007, 04:59 AM
And for those SLC hopefuls:

SLC 75/6 CA #1538 June1988 hire
SLC 73N CA #3502 Oct 91 hire
SLC M90 CA 3885 Jan 97 hire

SLC 75/6 FO July 16th hire
SLC 73N FO July 16th hire
SLC M90 FO Aug 6 hire

Not taking too long to get to SLC for newhires.

Could someone post or PM me a big package, or a typical line from the SLC MD90, 737 and 757/767. I'm just trying to get an idea of what the flying looks like.

Thanks all!

CE750
08-18-2007, 06:18 AM
also, you never hear anyone talk about CVG.. how does that base stack up seniority wise? Senior/Junior? thanks

edit: sorry but I guess there was a bit by the OP on the fact that CVG is shrinking... so would it be fair to characterize it as senior?

CVG767A
08-18-2007, 06:27 AM
CVG is our most senior base now. We had some recent hires just get a bid to the MD88 here, but they're going to be junior for a long time, barring the addition of more flying. An old rumor is that CVG will get a 737 base when the -700s are delivered.

I'm JFK based now, so I may not have the latest rumors concerning Cincy.

CE750
08-18-2007, 08:51 AM
thanks CVG767A, I figured as much, too bad really as I like the area and would love to move there if hired.

Bucking Bar
08-18-2007, 10:17 AM
What surprised me is that new hires could pretty much get right seat of whatever they want, except for the 777 and 767-400 flying.

Split S
08-18-2007, 01:47 PM
Got the call today - Sept 3rd Class :cool: Who's joining me?

-SS

Xray678
08-18-2007, 02:10 PM
What surprised me is that new hires could pretty much get right seat of whatever they want, except for the 777 and 767-400 flying.

no surprise there. Reserve sucks. I bet even the 777 and 765 end up going very junior.

944Turbo
08-18-2007, 04:46 PM
I'll be joining you on the 3rd!


Got the call today - Sept 3rd Class :cool: Who's joining me?

-SS

Deez340
08-18-2007, 08:09 PM
Got the call today - Sept 3rd Class :cool: Who's joining me?

-SS

Congrats' Split! Welcome!

Split S
08-18-2007, 08:13 PM
Congrats' Split! Welcome!

Thanks! I was surprised to get the call on a Saturday ... pleasantly surprised!

acl65pilot
08-19-2007, 03:08 PM
When the nine and 12 day trips starting coming out in the next few months, I think that all of the international flying will start to go very junior.

dudemize
08-19-2007, 03:30 PM
When the nine and 12 day trips starting coming out in the next few months, I think that all of the international flying will start to go very junior.

I haven't heard about this! What is the purpose of lengthening the trips?

CE750
08-19-2007, 06:07 PM
12 is doable if the off time is good... it's when (like my last job) you got 17-20 on and as little as 11 (sometimes less) off that you begin to wonder if you can do it for long, and your wife starts to loose it! I wonder what kind of block time the 10-12 day trips have?

Flare Armed
08-19-2007, 06:08 PM
Actually a couple junior guys got CVG M88B on this bid...6900something. Very surprising. A ton of long-deserved movement happening here.

CE750
08-19-2007, 06:11 PM
Actually a couple junior guys got CVG M88B on this bid...6900something. Very surprising. A ton of long-deserved movement happening here.

Would love to come and sit junior to you.. And glad you guys are finally getting some "Seniority" .. Times are finally good again, I still can't believe it; Delta hiring, and I've got an interview. If you would have told me 3 years ago, I would have laughed at you! :eek:

Bucking Bar
08-20-2007, 01:57 PM
Anyone know what is going to happen to those who have dates at the schoolhouse and also have been awarded another type?

A bunch of folks bid off the MD88 to the ER and 737-800. Are they still going to send them through 88 school?

I'm on the fence and almost wishing I had remained on the 88 for quick seniority.

Split S
08-20-2007, 02:30 PM
BB-

What did you bid to?

-SS

acl65pilot
08-20-2007, 02:56 PM
To answer a few questions:
First, The nine and 12 day trips are being built to cover a lot a flying more efficiently. Some of it will be for the ATL crews so that they can cover the NYC flying that is going unbid. (The is from crew resources, and also why I did not bid it.)
Second, If you are awarded the 88 or 737 or and other type for that matter, and bid off of it on an AE, you have to complete the training on your initial aircraft. It has to do with the fact that the conversion dates go in order. IE someone junior will be trained last. Most of the junior guys and gals will not be trained until late fall at the earliest. The conversion window is six months long. It takes time to train someone, and they would rather get a few months out of you than have you sit.

Bucking Bar
08-20-2007, 05:20 PM
Another (dumb) question. What if there is another bid in September? Can those who have not converted change their bid?

Xray678
08-20-2007, 07:07 PM
Another (dumb) question. What if there is another bid in September? Can those who have not converted change their bid?

next bid is supposed to be in Nov. No, once you are awarded something, you can't change it because you have not been converted. The seat lock starts from the time you are awarded your new aircraft.

LOBO
08-20-2007, 07:20 PM
Can you still bid to a different base? Even if you haven't started training?

Xray678
08-20-2007, 07:31 PM
Can you still bid to a different base? Even if you haven't started training?

nope. Can't bid another aircraft for two years from the time of your award, whether or not you've started training. There is no limit on bidding the same aircraft at a different base, but you still have to wait for the next bid (advance entitlement as we call them) before you can bid to another base.

scrapdog
08-21-2007, 09:22 AM
Would love to come and sit junior to you.. And glad you guys are finally getting some "Seniority" .. Times are finally good again, I still can't believe it; Delta hiring, and I've got an interview. If you would have told me 3 years ago, I would have laughed at you! :eek:

Sorry for thread drift: CE - didn't you just start with Gemini about 6 months ago?

acl65pilot
08-21-2007, 11:56 AM
It's all good. If you want a wide body you can get it. I am sure by next spring everything on property will have first year FO's on it.

CVG767A
08-21-2007, 12:03 PM
I've heard that there will be another bid in November.

Lifeisgood
08-22-2007, 05:31 AM
I heard that Delta has 75% of pilots that are younger than 50.

How many are younger than 35?

Can a 767 domestic pilot pickup and international trip out of his base?

Thank you

Xray678
08-22-2007, 06:11 AM
Can a 767 domestic pilot pickup and international trip out of his base?


no. Some domestic flying is done by the international pilots, but the reverse does not happen.

dudemize
08-22-2007, 08:03 AM
I know a lot of current DAL folks are shying away from the ER due to being on reserve.

I live close enough to NYC that I could sit short call at home. At least I think I could. I'm about 2 hrs to EWR, but realistically about 3 to JFK. I read somewhere that as long as you were within 2 hrs to one of the 3 NYC airports that is good enough.

Anyway, assuming I could sit reserve at home, what kind of life could I expect on the ER while on reserve? Will I be used everyday? It seems the staffing is pretty lean right now but hopefully this will be corrected with all the hiring.

Thanks in advance!

sully606
08-22-2007, 09:14 AM
I know a lot of current DAL folks are shying away from the ER due to being on reserve.

I live close enough to NYC that I could sit short call at home. At least I think I could. I'm about 2 hrs to EWR, but realistically about 3 to JFK. I read somewhere that as long as you were within 2 hrs to one of the 3 NYC airports that is good enough.

Anyway, assuming I could sit reserve at home, what kind of life could I expect on the ER while on reserve? Will I be used everyday? It seems the staffing is pretty lean right now but hopefully this will be corrected with all the hiring.

Thanks in advance!

If you've been hired by Delta welcome aboard.

In my opinion you are in one of the best possible positions for a career at Delta. The NYC base will always be relatively junior so more opportunities to advance sooner.

There is no contractual time limit. You have to be readily available for short call which can be different for different bases. Long call is 12 hours. It is generally assumed that two hours is a reasonable distance in normal traffic but if they call you out during rush hour three hours my be the best you can do and thats ok. You are correct that living within two hours from one of the airports is all that is required.

I am currently a reserve 76ER pilot in JFK and live in Chicago. I fly alot during the busy summer months and less from Nov to Mar. I had four short calls in Jun, one in Jul, and 2 so far in Aug. I flew 3-4 trips of 3-4 days during that time. Although reserve could use some improvements I personally love it. I should be off reserve by Jan-Mar with current growth.

Now for the good part - Rolling Thunder. This is the nickname that has been given by the reserve pilots who bid to fly Green slips on their off days. This technique is is best used if you live in the NYC area. Contractually if a reserve pilot volunteers to fly green slips on his off days he will be paid for the trip but the time will not be credited to his monthly total and his off days will be payed back at the end of the trip where he again will request to fly a green slip and again have his off days moved -hence Rolling Thunder.
What ends up happening is you fly about the same as anyone else but get paid up to double. I have flown with numerous pilots who are getting PAID 120-140 hours in a month. This technique is best achieved by having you off days early in the month and not having any hard commitments in your personal life. Living near NYC make you more available for those last- minute assignments.
The current lack of FOs, the large growth at JFK and the higher amount of summer time flying makes this easy to achieve. In the winter you can relax a bit and being close, sit short call from home. Being called out on a trip on short call is rare. I've been in NYC for four months and it has never happened to me and I've only seen it happen once to someone else.

Forgive me in advance if this is a bit confusing and I may be bit off on the explaination (someone will correct me I'm sure), but you are in a great position being in the NYC area.

acl65pilot
08-22-2007, 09:19 AM
Word is that there is going to be another AE in NOV. I do not think that there will be as many positions as the last one, but probably the same amount of movement. This last AE only accounted for one 777, they will have to start the training for the other ones late this year or early next.

acl65pilot
08-22-2007, 09:21 AM
I do not know if 75% are under 50, but there are a lot of 40 somethings as Captains on the 88. If you look at the retirements, they ramp up to 300-400+ a year in about five or six years.

CE750
08-22-2007, 03:46 PM
Sorry for thread drift: CE - didn't you just start with Gemini about 6 months ago?

8 to be precise.. It wasn't for my family. Wife can't do with 18+ days at a shot.

Gunfighter
08-22-2007, 07:44 PM
If you've been hired by Delta welcome aboard.

There is no contractual time limit. You have to be readily available for short call which can be different for different bases. Long call is 12 hours. It is generally assumed that two hours is a reasonable distance in normal traffic but if they call you out during rush hour three hours my be the best you can do and thats ok. You are correct that living within two hours from one of the airports is all that is required.



I read somewhere that Intl reserve was a 24 hr notice. Did I miss interpret something? How does the conversion from long call to short call work? Do you have 12 hours to report for short call or is it an instant conversion?

acl65pilot
08-23-2007, 04:49 AM
It is a 24 hr call out window. When you are on short call it is 24 hrs long. The will not make you fly a domestic rotation after 12 of the 24 hrs. If they call you for a int'l rotation I believe it is a 12 hr call out ( IE must have rest of 12 hrs for ensuing duty period)

sully606
08-23-2007, 05:40 AM
It is a 24 hr call out window. When you are on short call it is 24 hrs long. The will not make you fly a domestic rotation after 12 of the 24 hrs. If they call you for a int'l rotation I believe it is a 12 hr call out ( IE must have rest of 12 hrs for ensuing duty period)

First in anwser to Gunfighter's question:

Assignment to short call requires a 10 hour notice. Add the two hour (unofficial) report and you have 12 hour call like a long call assignment.

Being called out on a domestic trip (rare) requires compliance with the Whitlow letter for crew rest. That's why domestic short call is only 12 hours.

Short call on international is normally 24 hours usually from 1300-1300. There is no requirement to comply with the Whilow letter so they can use the Intl. pilot for an intl. trip more liberally. I have been assigned one trip while on short call for next-day flying. The sign-in was 1505 so they took me off shortcall at 0300 which gave me 12 hour rest for the trip.

I talked with the Chief pilot last week and they said they are considering going to 12 hour short call for various reasons. There doesn't seem to be any contractual restriction to keep them from doing this and personally this would be a good thing.



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