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View Full Version : Continental training


flybynuts
08-22-2007, 06:24 PM
Does anyone know about CALs new hire training? I hear it is 9 weeks long but I was wondering if they could shed more light on it in regards to pay while in training and if the company pays for the expenses like hotel and per diem while you are in this training? Thanks for your insight.


Eric Stratton
08-22-2007, 08:08 PM
Hotel is covered. per diem is paid and first year pay at the minimum guarantee. according to my roommate. oh, and no health insurance for the first 6 months.

CALFO
08-23-2007, 03:30 AM
CAL pays for a hotel. You check in the night before your start date and check-out after you finish. They also provide pass travel home on the weekends/days off. Per diem is paid 24/7 from the moment you arrive until the moment you finish. That equates to about $1,200 a month tax free, which is good because you're only getting paid 72 hours at $30/hr.

My first year plan was to continually bust different portions of training so that I could keep earning the per-diem and graduate with enough people behind me so that I wouldn't have to sit reserve. Unfortunately, it's such a cakewalk of training that I was unable to succeed at my plan and found myself in IOE a short 7 weeks later!


flybynuts
08-23-2007, 04:36 AM
Thanks all....I am hearing that CAL is looking at addressing the no insurance part company wide and is hoping to add it for new hires in Jan 08 as well as a side letter for better first year pay.

Eric Stratton
08-23-2007, 07:00 AM
Thanks all....I am hearing that CAL is looking at addressing the no insurance part company wide and is hoping to add it for new hires in Jan 08 as well as a side letter for better first year pay.

where did you hear this?

757Driver
08-23-2007, 07:45 AM
Thanks all....I am hearing that CAL is looking at addressing the no insurance part company wide and is hoping to add it for new hires in Jan 08 as well as a side letter for better first year pay.

Not sure where you heard that. It is an issue that needs immediate attention though.

flybynuts
08-23-2007, 08:18 AM
First, I need to state again, that I "heard" this. Source is someone who sits in on meetings that discuss issues that CAL is facing and how to live up to the Most Admired Airline of 2007. The jest is that is seems that these two issues are at the forefront of the company's perspective and with wanting to hire high caliber people.

ERJ Jay
08-23-2007, 09:34 AM
Don't hurry too fast through training. Your largest paycheck your first year will be the one with a full months training and the continuous per deim. I just got done with a 112 credit hour month (Rx days, assigned trips with releases after original pairing termination at 150%), and the paycheck was still smaller than my training paycheck. As for insurance, I'll believe it when I see it, thank god my wifes got a "real" job.

catIIIc
08-23-2007, 10:47 AM
First, I need to state again, that I "heard" this. Source is someone who sits in on meetings that discuss issues that CAL is facing and how to live up to the Most Admired Airline of 2007. The jest is that is seems that these two issues are at the forefront of the company's perspective and with wanting to hire high caliber people.

I hope you are right with everyone else starting to hire it will be harder to fill classes with quality people.

ewrbasedpilot
08-23-2007, 11:37 AM
......... thank god my wifes got a "real" job.

Your "real" job is one that a lot of guys would kill for. Why did you "take" it if you didn't really want it? I have a boatload of friends that would die to have your "fake" job. Everyone has been in the "no insurance" "low paycheck" part of a career. 99% of us have survived it. Some airlines have better pay/benefits to start, but I highly doubt many have pilots upgrading to captain in under two years......something happening at CAL as we speak. THAT could lead to one hell of a financially rewarding and great career............ then again, maybe flying an ERJ would be better than flying a Boeing product (since I've flown both, I wouldn't give you 10 cents for an ERJ). JMHO

ewrbasedpilot
08-23-2007, 11:39 AM
I hope you are right with everyone else starting to hire it will be harder to fill classes with quality people.

I see this comment a lot, but finding quality people to hire isn't really much of a problem, whether anyone is hiring or not........................ A lot of quality people will NEVER get hired, and they'll always be knocking at the door for someone to hire them. The only thing is that you can NEVER GIVE UP.

Eric Stratton
08-23-2007, 12:19 PM
Your "real" job is one that a lot of guys would kill for. Why did you "take" it if you didn't really want it? I have a boatload of friends that would die to have your "fake" job. Everyone has been in the "no insurance" "low paycheck" part of a career. 99% of us have survived it. Some airlines have better pay/benefits to start, but I highly doubt many have pilots upgrading to captain in under two years......something happening at CAL as we speak. THAT could lead to one hell of a financially rewarding and great career............ then again, maybe flying an ERJ would be better than flying a Boeing product (since I've flown both, I wouldn't give you 10 cents for an ERJ). JMHO

wow did you take that personally...why is it that we are suppose to deal with no insurance and low pay? it's a shame that pilots feel that we need to endure hard times for some reason, especially at this point in our career. wasn't flight instructing and the regionals survival enough.

whiskerbizkit
08-23-2007, 12:51 PM
Just hope when contract time comes around he dosnt sell the junior guys out and only look out for himself.

flybynuts
08-23-2007, 01:36 PM
I hope you are right with everyone else starting to hire it will be harder to fill classes with quality people.


That is the thought process behind CAL looking into this. They realize that they need to be even more competitive to stay in the spot that they are now as well as be a company that others want to emulate.

ewrbasedpilot
08-23-2007, 01:48 PM
wow did you take that personally...why is it that we are suppose to deal with no insurance and low pay? it's a shame that pilots feel that we need to endure hard times for some reason, especially at this point in our career. wasn't flight instructing and the regionals survival enough.

No, I didn't take it personally at all............but I was 42, having spent 20 years in the military, flight instructing in college, flying for US Customs, flying for 4 regionals/commuters (furloughed 4 times), offshore helicopters, and freighters overseas to get my airline job. We have so many lowtime pilots who get their job at a major airline and do nothing but whine and complain about everything, like they expect me to believe that life has been really tough on them at the ripe old age of 25. Paying dues is something of the past..................... Believe me that I got my airline job the HARD way, having endured low pay, lived in the crashpad with 16 other pilots, worked 23 days a month, and making $17,000 a year before taxes. I had no life for a LONG TIME----- much longer than 75% of those posting here who think after 2 months on the job they deserve to be captain of a 777 making $300,000 a year. I find it interesting how many on this forum want everything handed to them. THAT is my point.

ewrbasedpilot
08-23-2007, 01:54 PM
Just hope when contract time comes around he dosnt sell the junior guys out and only look out for himself.

It's so funny how guys like you post this CRAP on these forums. Our union was looking for volunteers recently to fill our committee vacancies, and do you know who volunteered out of 4800 pilots? Not a whole lot (and yes, those who didn't volunteer are STILL complaining about how bad their representation is!) I'm sure you'd definitely be one of the NON-volunteers. You sound just like them. I'm on two committees at CAL..............and the head of one. I guess I could be like you and many others and NOT volunteer, thereby really looking out for just MYSELF. Personally I think those who sit at home and make excuses for NOT working with the union are selling everyone else out. :rolleyes: BTW, I'm not that senior either, so maybe you aren't so up on what you're talking about. :eek:

ERJ Jay
08-23-2007, 03:06 PM
Everyone has been in the "no insurance" "low paycheck" part of a career. 99% of us have survived it.

Just because that's the way it has always been done, doesn't mean it's the way that it should be. You and I should be fighting to end this policy, instead of coming up with justifications that seem to make it right. Just because we had to "survive it" doesn't mean I want those following in my footsteps to have to endure it too. There's no reason why a fortune 500 company and "Best Places to Work" can't give their employees medical insurance for them and there families.

That "real" job by the way that includes medical, dental, 401(k), and other benefits from day one ........
is selling dog food. I'm not kidding.

whiskerbizkit
08-23-2007, 03:16 PM
Its a "been there done that, now its your turn" attitude.

ewrbasedpilot
08-23-2007, 03:42 PM
Its a "been there done that, now its your turn" attitude.


Just wondering what committee you are on for the union or have you "been there and done that" too?

Riddler
08-23-2007, 04:46 PM
No, I didn't take it personally at all............but I was 42, having spent 20 years in the military, flight instructing in college, flying for US Customs, flying for 4 regionals/commuters (furloughed 4 times), offshore helicopters, and freighters overseas to get my airline job. We have so many lowtime pilots who get their job at a major airline and do nothing but whine and complain about everything, like they expect me to believe that life has been really tough on them at the ripe old age of 25. Paying dues is something of the past..................... Believe me that I got my airline job the HARD way, having endured low pay, lived in the crashpad with 16 other pilots, worked 23 days a month, and making $17,000 a year before taxes. I had no life for a LONG TIME----- much longer than 75% of those posting here who think after 2 months on the job they deserve to be captain of a 777 making $300,000 a year. I find it interesting how many on this forum want everything handed to them. THAT is my point.

$17K/year 20 years ago does NOT equate to $30K/year today. No one is saying that they deserve to start out at $300K/year.

757Driver
08-23-2007, 08:31 PM
Just wondering what committee you are on for the union or have you "been there and done that" too?

Better question would be what committee do you serve on? Hopefully its not the negotiating one or we're all screwed !!

luv757
08-23-2007, 08:51 PM
Better question would be what committee do you serve on? Hopefully its not the negotiating one or we're all screwed !!

Another dumb question: why are we not as well armed as the company with professional negotiators? PBS, work rules, wages, and staffing all need to be fixed yesterday. As a group we all better get on the same page. I am junior, the 757/767 crew rest seat doesn't affect me. But you better believe that I realize that one day I won't be so junior and one day I would like to fly the 757/767 or the 777. I will vote no to the first offering and any subsequent offering that takes away anything from any portion of the pilot group.

We better unify or management will get exactly what they want: mainline flying that may as well have "Operated by (insert regional carrier name here)" on the side of every airplane.

sydney5316
08-24-2007, 06:06 AM
You guys sound like an old married couple. I did this; what did you do. Blah, Blah, Blah. I've been at CAL since 1987. Good luck in getting things changed. And yes...I voted no on the last contract.

757Driver
08-24-2007, 07:52 AM
Good luck in getting things changed.

Syd,

Its pervasive attitudes like this that have landed us where we are. I too have been here since '87 and have been sickened by the attitude that the previous generation exudes, (see Scabs, PE types, NYAir ect..). Everything's great and don't rock the boat is no way to negotiate a contract.

Time to give our CEO a clear-cut message.

ewrbasedpilot
08-24-2007, 09:13 AM
Better question would be what committee do you serve on? Hopefully its not the negotiating one or we're all screwed !!

AHHHH, another of the NON-VOLUNTEERS, right???? Or, do I even ask if you've ever thrown your hat into the ring? My guess would be a resounding NO. And I bet I'd be right.

ewrbasedpilot
08-24-2007, 09:17 AM
Another dumb question: why are we not as well armed as the company with professional negotiators? PBS, work rules, wages, and staffing all need to be fixed yesterday. As a group we all better get on the same page. I am junior, the 757/767 crew rest seat doesn't affect me. But you better believe that I realize that one day I won't be so junior and one day I would like to fly the 757/767 or the 777. I will vote no to the first offering and any subsequent offering that takes away anything from any portion of the pilot group.

We better unify or management will get exactly what they want: mainline flying that may as well have "Operated by (insert regional carrier name here)" on the side of every airplane.

I've always wondered the same thing. How is it that managements attorneys always seem to be lightyears ahead of ALPA's? You'd think after 75 years of doing this stuff, we'd have better representation than we've got. As for the crew rest seat....our union gave it away, and now we're ****ed at the company for not giving it back. :confused: Voting "no" just to vote "no" isn't the answer either. Sometimes you end up with a lot less than you started with. DAL learned that the hard way.

757Driver
08-24-2007, 09:56 AM
AHHHH, another of the NON-VOLUNTEERS, right???? Or, do I even ask if you've ever thrown your hat into the ring? My guess would be a resounding NO. And I bet I'd be right.

Wrong.

Several time member on the Negotiating committee, (sub not Stivala type), for '95, '97 and '02.

And you?

What's the prize for you being wrong?

ewrbasedpilot
08-24-2007, 02:31 PM
Wrong.

Several time member on the Negotiating committee, (sub not Stivala type), for '95, '97 and '02.

And you?

What's the prize for you being wrong?

And you talk about me? CAL's negotiating team never seemed to negotiate much other than mediocre or well below everyone else. :eek:

757Driver
08-24-2007, 05:12 PM
And you talk about me? CAL's negotiating team never seemed to negotiate much other than mediocre or well below everyone else. :eek:

Was dismissed for being to radical on contracts '97 and '02. What supposed committees are you on Mr. Phoney?

Eric Stratton
08-25-2007, 05:02 AM
I'm curious why you guys think that it will be any different this time around at CAL.

no matter who's on the negotiating committee it's still the pilot group that has to put the yes votes in to make it pass.

CALFO
08-25-2007, 05:38 AM
I'm curious why you guys think that it will be any different this time around at CAL.

no matter who's on the negotiating committee it's still the pilot group that has to put the yes votes in to make it pass.


The pilot group should be the difference this time. Over 20% of our pilots were not here during the last contract. Most of these people, including myself have had to make serious financial sacrafices and know that we need more. As for the guys that were around for the ratification of Contract '02, I imagine that most of the "Yes" voters now understand what a turd they passed. As Pres. Bush said, "Fool me once, shame on me, fool me ... . ..... well, you're just not going to do it."

ewrbasedpilot
08-25-2007, 05:43 AM
Was dismissed for being to radical on contracts '97 and '02. What supposed committees are you on Mr. Phoney?

Ones that probably irritate guys like you...............Hotel and Uniform. But you see, I do it on my OFF days, thereby saving the dues paying membership their "flight pay loss". Hard to believe I VOLUNTEER on my OFF days to support guys like you. So who's the phoney??

ewrbasedpilot
08-25-2007, 05:48 AM
......... As Pres. Bush said, "Fool me once, shame on me, fool me ... . ..... well, you're just not going to do it."

Ah.........and herein lies the biggest problem. Too many were fooled once by this guy, and then they voted for him AGAIN. We have plenty of money to send to Iraq and keep the oil companies in business, meanwhile, we (the airlines and their employees) get screwed at every corner. ATC is falling apart, and yet there's no money to update the ATC system (funny where all the trust fund money for the airlines has disappeared to). The passengers are being delayed left and right for no apparent reasons other than ATC understaffing and outdated equipment, and the airlines are being fined and targeted as the problem. This administration has some of the best spin meisters on the planet. Always seems to be everyone elses fault but theirs. :(

ewrbasedpilot
08-25-2007, 05:55 AM
........ As for the guys that were around for the ratification of Contract '02, I imagine that most of the "Yes" voters now understand what a turd they passed. ......"

The UNION was the one promoting this "turd". Had the economy continued on the path it was taking, I have no doubt that we'd have a few less major airlines. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it), the airline business has turned around thanks to all the pay and benefit cuts the employees took, although this summers delays and the sky high fuel prices have decimated the profits we SHOULD be making. If oil was down around $40 a bbl, (where it should be), the opportunity to get the healthcare costs on the first day of being a newhire would be a lot greater. Hopefully that will be addressed on the next contract because no one should have to wait six months for insurance. Time will tell. I still see CAL as the top airline. Most of the other legacy airlines still have pilots furloughed. CAL has been hiring for quite some time.................

CALFO
08-25-2007, 06:30 AM
The UNION was the one promoting this "turd".......

Just because the Union put some spin on it, doesn't relinquish the pilot group from reading it, asking questions, and voting appropriately. Honestly, did any of the "Yes" voters even take the time to read the thing? Had the pilot group spoken with a solid "No" vote, the company would have been forced to make changes. I agree that some concessions may have been appropriate given the state of the industry, but to give up so much was just stupid.

Eric Stratton
08-25-2007, 06:36 AM
CAL was working on a concessionary contract compared to the other airlines the whole time after 9-11 and they still took a cut. I just don't see much happening especially with how PBS is being handled according to my buddy.

Superpilot92
08-25-2007, 06:38 AM
Just because that's the way it has always been done, doesn't mean it's the way that it should be. You and I should be fighting to end this policy, instead of coming up with justifications that seem to make it right. Just because we had to "survive it" doesn't mean I want those following in my footsteps to have to endure it too. There's no reason why a fortune 500 company and "Best Places to Work" can't give their employees medical insurance for them and there families.

That "real" job by the way that includes medical, dental, 401(k), and other benefits from day one ........
is selling dog food. I'm not kidding.

100% Agree

757Driver
08-25-2007, 03:29 PM
Ones that probably irritate guys like you...............Hotel and Uniform. But you see, I do it on my OFF days, thereby saving the dues paying membership their "flight pay loss". Hard to believe I VOLUNTEER on my OFF days to support guys like you. So who's the phoney??

No wonder we look like sh!t and stay in fleabag hotels.;)

Just kidding, appreciate your efforts but you still need a remedy for that Stockholm Syndrome you seem to have.

ewrbasedpilot
08-26-2007, 09:35 AM
Just because the Union put some spin on it, doesn't relinquish the pilot group from reading it, asking questions, and voting appropriately. Honestly, did any of the "Yes" voters even take the time to read the thing? Had the pilot group spoken with a solid "No" vote, the company would have been forced to make changes. I agree that some concessions may have been appropriate given the state of the industry, but to give up so much was just stupid.

I agree, but we didn't have a whole lot to "read", and every day I still hear about and find things that are "hidden" than no one knew about. I'm tired of our union getting attorneys to write our contracts that only attorneys can decifer, and then then they are STILL full of holes a mile wide. If it's not in plain english and we can't all understand it (black and white and not 95% gray to allow for such lenient interpretations by the company), then it shouldn't be put up for a vote, period. Quite a few of the "no" voters never read the contract either. Everyone voted the way they did for their own reasons...............but now it's time to get busy on contract 08. Hopefully this pilot group will be able to recoup the losses it sustained and add significantly to the QOL/paycheck/job satisfaction that we endured a few years back. It's time the workers in this business started being paid back for all their sacrifices. Lord knows quite a few CEO's and management types have walked away from their positions taking with them all the sweat equity the crewmembers/employess have shed. And yet the BOD's at many airlines keep hiring these theives. Sad, isn't it?

ewrbasedpilot
08-26-2007, 09:41 AM
No wonder we look like sh!t and stay in fleabag hotels.;)

Just kidding, appreciate your efforts but you still need a remedy for that Stockholm Syndrome you seem to have.

Oh come one, that's only in 90% of our hotels, and I personally think polyester looks great on everyone........and the more it shines, the nicer it looks. :p Actually we should have a new vendor very soon for the uniforms, and we're definitely working on the hotel upgrades (have you stayed in MIA on the beach yet??? VERY NICE)..............
As far as the Stockholm Syndrome, I don't have it, I'm just fairly realistic. I majored in business and have a small idea of how most of this is supposed to work ................I just thank God we don't have pilots running this airline or we'd all be out of work.:p I saw how Bill Compton at TWA screwed all his fellow pilots when he was bought off. Guess it's just hard to tell who's on who's side.

LifeNtheFstLne
08-29-2007, 06:48 PM
How long is training, and where is it held?

Ottopilot
08-30-2007, 02:55 AM
Houston training center, near the airport.
I think its 9 weeks or so.
No food in training center, but some vendors come in for lunch time. Some of the food is OK.

flybynuts
08-30-2007, 04:17 AM
I hear it is 7-9 weeks in IAH. First two weeks you have weekends off and then it rotates due to the sim schedule. You will get 2 days off in a row guaranteed so that you can fly home and see the family if needed. Most say it is low stress and enjoyable which is why a lot of guys end up finishing in about 7 weeks.



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