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Boogie Nights
08-24-2007, 12:28 PM
I have to applaud Airtrans media department. To read the news you would think that we had all voted and thought the TA was the best thing since sliced bread. I hope the heck this is indeed media hype or I will be very let down.

I hope the TA goes down in flames, the union Pres and vice are recalled. Heck this is the first union I have belonged to. I would have expected more from people who are supposed to have my interest at heart.

Most pilots I know are good, intelligent people. I hope they will look at the big picture here.

Taking a step back I do not think Airtran pilots should be pressing for a contract for at least two years. We should not be the first to settle and set a standard for pay in our types and class. Let Alaska, United, American, Delta, and their pilots unions set the stage for us. They have more experience, more money and can give us bargaining power when we come to the table as most are or will be hiring.

Granted I am new to this but it seems to me that a quick buck now will set us back for the next 6-10 years.

Airtran guys give me validation….is this TA going down hard?


Oldfreightdawg
08-24-2007, 01:53 PM
I have to applaud Airtrans media department. To read the news you would think that we had all voted and thought the TA was the best thing since sliced bread. I hope the heck this is indeed media hype or I will be very let down.

I hope the TA goes down in flames, the union Pres and vice are recalled. Heck this is the first union I have belonged to. I would have expected more from people who are supposed to have my interest at heart.

Most pilots I know are good, intelligent people. I hope they will look at the big picture here.

Taking a step back I do not think Airtran pilots should be pressing for a contract for at least two years. We should not be the first to settle and set a standard for pay in our types and class. Let Alaska, United, American, Delta, and their pilots unions set the stage for us. They have more experience, more money and can give us bargaining power when we come to the table as most are or will be hiring.

Granted I am new to this but it seems to me that a quick buck now will set us back for the next 6-10 years.

Airtran guys give me validation….is this TA going down hard?

Sorry, I'm not an AirTran guy. But I'm behind them 100%. I hope that they sign something we can all shoot for.

However, saying that, I've never seen or heard anything concrete about what the details are. It would be nice to know exactly what upsets you about the T/A...

rvr350
08-24-2007, 07:22 PM
The vote will come down between senior CA that wants to put it behind their back, to the junior FO that will see thru all the smoke screen. Most of us won't upgrade for a lot longer than the company says, so any concessionary contract will not be tolerated.


Rosie
08-25-2007, 04:33 AM
What does the TA have in it? What if any is the pay increase (10%/15%/???)? Are there any work rule improvements? Just curious. Good luck!

Eric Stratton
08-25-2007, 05:11 AM
I have to applaud Airtrans media department. To read the news you would think that we had all voted and thought the TA was the best thing since sliced bread. I hope the heck this is indeed media hype or I will be very let down.

I hope the TA goes down in flames, the union Pres and vice are recalled. Heck this is the first union I have belonged to. I would have expected more from people who are supposed to have my interest at heart.

Most pilots I know are good, intelligent people. I hope they will look at the big picture here.

Taking a step back I do not think Airtran pilots should be pressing for a contract for at least two years. We should not be the first to settle and set a standard for pay in our types and class. Let Alaska, United, American, Delta, and their pilots unions set the stage for us. They have more experience, more money and can give us bargaining power when we come to the table as most are or will be hiring.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]Granted I am new to this but it seems to me that a quick buck now will set us back for the next 6-10 years.

Airtran guys give me validation….is this TA going down hard?


that's typical let someone else do the fighting while you ride on their coat tail. that's the low cost mentality. don't want to give away your edge.

on second thought why not just go for the southwest pay scale. I think most people would be happy with that.

UGAIV
08-25-2007, 05:57 AM
I have to applaud Airtrans media department. To read the news you would think that we had all voted and thought the TA was the best thing since sliced bread. I hope the heck this is indeed media hype or I will be very let down.

I hope the TA goes down in flames, the union Pres and vice are recalled. Heck this is the first union I have belonged to. I would have expected more from people who are supposed to have my interest at heart.

Most pilots I know are good, intelligent people. I hope they will look at the big picture here.

Taking a step back I do not think Airtran pilots should be pressing for a contract for at least two years. We should not be the first to settle and set a standard for pay in our types and class. Let Alaska, United, American, Delta, and their pilots unions set the stage for us. They have more experience, more money and can give us bargaining power when we come to the table as most are or will be hiring.

Granted I am new to this but it seems to me that a quick buck now will set us back for the next 6-10 years.

Airtran guys give me validation….is this TA going down hard?



Wow, you just insulted a lot of pilot groups. Part of the reason for the crappy contracts today is the LCC's acceptance of sub-par contracts in the past. As a Pilot at a profitable LCC, It is your duty and responsibility to bring up the standards for all of us. Then, we will be able to make some real improvements. How can the majors ask for more if the LCC's are accepting less or not fighting at all for what they deserve? Do not leave it up to the majors to do your dirty work. Then, we will be able to make some real improvements.

Polarfr8dog
08-25-2007, 06:28 AM
Go read Boogie Nights second to the last paragraph . . . it sums it all up.

Nice avatar, however. :D

Boogie Nights
08-25-2007, 01:17 PM
Not trying to **** anyone off. I just think that if the AirTran pilot group is hasty, we set a new "basis of comparrision" that all the other Airlines will fight when it comes to their contracts. Big picture I am not sure the smaller fish (admittedly growing) should set standards that the pilot profession needs to overcome. Let the unions that better leadership and more expirience lead the way. In a big way we all move forward or back as a group. Also it is clear from the TA that we have the wrong group leading the union for us to mve forward at this point.

Hope no ones offended. Not trying to pass the buck, I don't want us to bring the group down.

Yes the TA is one of those pay raises with "zero cost" to the airline. Also we pay $300-$700/ Mo for medical. That is not even considered. Things like changing start pay from door closed to moving. ETC Trust me if this new TA set any kind of standard then we will all maybe richer but with poorer quality lives.

CarlSpackler
08-28-2007, 08:40 AM
No, "Otter" and the others are right. There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't shoot for the moon. Will we get it? Who knows. At least we freakin' tried. This is unlike our current negotiating strategy of "We're sorry company, you're right. We pilots don't deserve a raise in pay and better QOL." Why are we even thinking about concessions in ANY WAY?? The pilot group is getting younger and more ****ed off, and I think if we keep the group together management could have a firestorm on their hands. Time to work together AirTran pilots and set the bar for others to follow.

........end rant.

Boogie Nights
08-28-2007, 10:59 AM
Like I said I am new to this. I am willing to fight but I need to have confidence in those leading the charge and I am not getting that from the current union managment. If we have the right people in there then sure lets do it but lets not jump in right now with both feet if the union managment is going to cave in. If we do; we screw everyone. It seems to me from the TA (I read) the rebuttals we are settling if we pass this thing as it is. Also why do we need to be in a hurry. I think the company wants this settled quick for expansion, and to avoid paying more once other unions start getting more for their pilots. Am I just naive here?

LuvJockey
08-29-2007, 03:49 AM
$700/month for medical? Time starts only when aircraft moves? Negligible pay raises when AirTran is profitable?? From what I read before, one of the main concerns for negotiations was protection in case AirTran was bought out by SWA or someone else. The question I now have is, protection from what?

tazzzzed
08-29-2007, 04:46 AM
i hope this ta does not pass. we work more block hours than most commuters. this never ending 4 on 3 off come out 5 times a month garbage is getting real old.4 day trips worth 18 hours just does not work. we NEED some Q.O.L. improvements. the feeling i am getting is the 717 guys are voting for it because they have better scheds. than the 73 guys. the pay reduction for the lose of the core credit is still huge and needs to be brought back to the original offer. I still feel most f.o. should vote this down. the pay scale is still way top loaded for the capt. and the with our current orders the upgrade is going to go beyond 5 years here real fast. the excuse that u will be a capt. in 3 years so eat the bad pay just does not work. I more than doubled my pay the first year after 4th stripe. this is just wrong.
my only concern with the recall is who is going to run. all the guys here less than 5 years have too get a hold of the recall we used to remove the last group. u want to talk morals and ethics read that thing. it was scary to say the least. i dont know much but i do know those guys have NO right to ever spend our highest dues in the industry ever again. I can only hope some decent people will step up. so far non have.

Boogie Nights
08-29-2007, 02:30 PM
Thanks Tazzzed. I already turned it down. I had a day last month where I got a 2.4 hour day. We really need a second domicile too. Our FO seems to me to cap out way too low the way things are going. The company really needs to fix its planning and scheuling depts. We do way too much sitting and non-productive days. They could hire less if they scheduled better. We have had all kinds of turmoil on the 737 side all summer where they have no one to fly because of poor planning

Boogie Nights
08-29-2007, 02:32 PM
I have not been around enough to get a sence on whether this will pass. I don't they fixed anything just addressing the pay. They want the 50.001 % solution



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