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View Full Version : Airlines vs. private jets

08-28-2007, 07:45 AM
Interesting article called "Duel in the Sky..."

08-28-2007, 11:51 AM
I don't believe that a Gulfstream pays 1/10th of what a 737 pays for a given segment length. It's definently less, but can't be that much. A Gulfstream also uses alot less gas than a 737.

The also failed to mention that this new "funding system" would generate less money than the current system, and that pilots who never even talk to ATC would be paying through the @$$ so that the airline c**kmaster managers can get a tax break. I can't stand the idea of the Pawnee towing my glider lumped in with private jets.

08-28-2007, 02:13 PM
A Gulfstream also uses alot less gas than a 737.
Bingo. That is what our aviation taxes are based on. A Ford F350 pays more in gas taxes than a Toyota Prius, yet they both take up the same amount of "room." Fuel burn is what our taxes are based on. Take a look at the amount of taxes paid per passenger, and it is roughly the same for a G5 and a 737. That is the way it should be!!!

I can't stand the idea of the Pawnee towing my glider lumped in with private jets.
How could a Pawnee be lumped in with private jets?? I thought it was for turbine powered aircraft. Do you know why they want to consider a Pawnee a "corporate jet." I have taken many an aerotow from a Pawnee!!!

08-28-2007, 02:33 PM
The problem is that instead of a 737 going from new york to chicago , it's 3 or 4 RJ's .

08-28-2007, 03:05 PM
A319 is roughly burning 5K an hour.... I'm sure a GIII is burning close to that?

08-28-2007, 08:00 PM
Found this on AOPA's site. Thought it was amusing:

Airline CEO Labor Delay Excuse Checklist
As airline delays increase, you need to know who you can use as a scapegoat so you can avoid taking responsibility for your own over-scheduling procedures, which even the DOT says are the second-leading cause of delays.

Blame the weather (i.e., too hot, cold, rainy, windy, sunny, etc.).

Blame a computer (after all, one laptop controls all flights at each airport).

Blame airports (be sure to remind everyone that when you over-schedule, they should build more gates).

Blame runways (they should accommodate you when you schedule 58 departures in an hour).

Blame pilots (they should be glad they still have jobs. Everyone else got laid off).

Blame private planes. (Try this game: Have the passengers try to spot one private plane during their five-hour wait on the tarmac. Hint: Because private planes rarely use the crowded hub airports, they will never see one. It's a good way to keep them too busy to realize that you didn't provide them with food.)

Remember: You are trying to get Congress to allot all of us a tax break. You want to make sure that you disregard all responsibility for any of the following:

Our policies of pushing all of our flights into the largest and most congested hubs. Whatever you do, avoid the phrase "hub-and-spoke system."
Poor customer service.
Laying off thousands of employees and cutting pensions while giving upper management millions in bonuses, benefits, and increased pay.

08-28-2007, 08:07 PM

The original plan called for massive tax increases on AVGAS, not just Jet-A. This means the Pawnee towing my glider, the Cherokee shooting touch and goes, and the Civil Air Patrol 172 doing search and rescue training would have to pay through the @$$ as well.

08-28-2007, 11:27 PM
The true concern for the airlines is not the VFR C-172 paying its fair share. A blip at FL 350 is the concern. The fear is the VLJ has the potential to create as many blips at 350 as current transport aircraft in class A and B airspace. If this will happen remains to be seen. The fact is however, the FAA and ATA believe it will happen and are responding in a predictable way.

Consider the following trends:

-The "air travel" experience is now dreaded by the traveler.

-Not too long ago only the ultra rich could opt out and pay to play in the biz jet world.

-Fractionals have significantly reduced the entry fee. Many of NetJets pax would have been full fare 1st class pax, now lost.

-VLJs have the potential to lower the price to play even further, airlines lose their last high margin pax and end up in flow control waiting to takeoff with only low yield pax on their way from the trailer park to the Jerry Springer show. Jeerrreeey, Jeerrreeey, Jeerrreeey!

-NextGen ATC system required to handle all the blips. Under current funding airlines are stuck with most of the costs while the revenue stream slips away. (This is why the funding structure at first blush makes no sense, ie lower revenue... it's structured on the assumption the sky will be filled with VLJs)

-United saw this way ahead of the other airlines (Avolar) and tried but failed to execute a workable plan. I won't speculate why they failed. It doesn't matter now.

If all this happens against the airlines guess where airline management will look for financial help. Right..... Flight Deck ATMs or FDATMs. That will be you. :(

Perhaps a few high profile high rollers will create smokin holes and the VLJ predictions will go the way of the Lear Fan, SST, Hypersonic Flight, Unducted Fan, Aero Car, etc. Perhaps not. :confused:

NIGHT Freight... looking better every DAY

08-29-2007, 02:24 AM
The real answer the the air traffic control problem is the number of runways. Plenty of SPACE up there .... but there is only so much ATC can do with the runways avail to get them up and down.