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View Full Version : UAL Future


grant123
09-03-2007, 06:24 AM
Can anyone give some insight into what may be some positives in UAL's future? New contract in 2009, new aircraft purchases, more international service, new mgt team?? Still would like to fly for them someday in the future, but is there a future?


fireman0174
09-03-2007, 06:35 AM
Can anyone give some insight into what may be some positives in UAL's future? New contract in 2009, new aircraft purchases, more international service, new mgt team?? Still would like to fly for them someday in the future, but is there a future?
JMHO, and I've been away from them for four years, but I don't think the future is very bright.

The recent announcement about possibly/probably selling the SFO maintenance base will be followed, IMO, be a sale of the Denver flight training center. To me, if the maintenance center gets sold, the training center is an almost certainty.

I think UAL is on it's way to becoming a "virtual airline".

Again, it's just my opinion.

Rottweiler
09-03-2007, 06:39 AM
FWIW - my friend just resigned his seniority number at UAL to remain a CRJ captain at Skywest.

I never thought I'd see the day in my career where a pilot would choose a regional over a major. That says volumes about UAL.

Rott


floydbird
09-03-2007, 07:47 AM
FWIW - my friend just resigned his seniority number at UAL to remain a CRJ captain at Skywest.

I never thought I'd see the day in my career where a pilot would choose a regional over a major. That says volumes about UAL.

Rott

Perhaps it does say something about UAL, but, maybe not.

Pilots began getting furloughed 6 years ago. That's a long time. Were people "waiting by the phone" for their furlough to end? No way, they have gone on and made completely different lives for themselves. If a someone has a good QOL, makes a good living, doesn't commute, whether its a flying job or not...it's completely understandable that they wouldn't want to leave. To me, it is no different than the Captain's I flew with at SkyWest years ago who weren't looking for other jobs, even with the hiring boom. They were simply happy with their lives, and saw no reason to dump it to start all over again.

I see the decision to come back to UAL after furlough is more a statement on the satisfaction of the new life they have built for themselves, rather than a statement on United, or any other airline.

Fact of the matter is, that by far, most of the pilots furloughed by United have returned or will return. There still may be some others who won't come back after LOA's have ended, but nevertheless, most are coming back.

**"Resigned, Retired or Deceased 274 12.6%"

**From UAL furlough coordinator

Sonny Crockett
09-03-2007, 10:31 AM
Skywest over United?

I doubt you have the whole story.

Of the 50-60 furloughee's that I know PERSONALLY all of them came back from places like jETLBUE, CAL (Yes that is CAL) Skywest, Mesa, Omni, World, Airtran..and the list goes on.....

Not to mention all they guys who are applying and trying to get hired, in fact one LOR I just wrote is for a SKYWEST RJ Captain....!

pilotss
09-03-2007, 10:52 AM
Is it that pilots have made themselves a QOL better or is it that the QOL is nothing what is used to be? I think its a bit of both but mostly that life at UAL is nothing what it used to be.

We all know people who have gone back or have stayed at their current job. The best comparison would be to ask if you would go back to a United of a certain date. The company has gone through many different eras.

Utah
09-03-2007, 02:07 PM
FWIW - my friend just resigned his seniority number at UAL to remain a CRJ captain at Skywest.

I never thought I'd see the day in my career where a pilot would choose a regional over a major. That says volumes about UAL.

Rott

I know of another one that resigned and is still a RJ FO at Skywest. Could hold RJ captain but will probably stay an FO till next year. QOL and stability mean alot more than flying a Boeing to some.

alwaysflying
09-03-2007, 02:25 PM
Grant123

Its hard to predict where any major carrier will be in the next few years. Prior to 9/11, you would never thought UAL, NWA, and DAL would all be in BK, laying off large amounts of people. If you would of told me that a few years ago that USAir would still be flying, I would of bet against you. Anyboby that knows the future is probably buying stock and making a killing doing it.

If your thinking of applying talk to pilots that work their, look at the contract and decide. No matter where you go its a gamble, except maybe cargo.
Know that you might be working under the current contract till 2010 or so. It always takes awhile to negiotiate a new contract.

I know of alot of UAL furloughees, I was one. Quite a few of my friends returned to UAL and are very happy. Others quit UAL upon final recall mainly due to QOL and pay. All the majors that furloughed are not going to see 100% of the furloughees return. Times have changed and the industry has changed, people are willing to except lower pay for QOL.

EDC757
09-03-2007, 02:28 PM
The recent announcement about possibly/probably selling the SFO maintenance base will be followed, IMO, be a sale of the Denver flight training center. To me, if the maintenance center gets sold, the training center is an almost certainty.

United does not want to sell the maintenance center they want investors to partner with it. The employees would be the subjects of this new partnership and it's new management. And even if United sold the training center not much would change. The Union would still require United pilot instructors like many of the other airlines that use the united simulators. You will hear alot of ugly things about United until the next contract is completed but that is how it works.

REAL Pilot
09-03-2007, 02:44 PM
Grant123

FWIW after watching over 30 years of legacy regression... United is a tough call. A lot of potential energy with perplexing direction. The pros: huge widebody fleet with awesome reach, over $5 billion cash in the bank, unmatched route/hub network, great pilot group NOT intimidated by mgt, and a good fleet that can continue to earn big money for the next 10 years at which point mgt says they are looking at the next generation narrowbody (737 replacement- why buy equipment now when the next evolution is around the corner), 15% 401K contribution.

The cons: suspect mgt, suspect mgt, suspect mgt and a poor contract.

Crystal Ball- who knows. Study aviation history and you will see that todays winner HAS NOT stayed on top EVER. The merger potential is the elephant in the room. It is stated by all the prophets as a bad thing, but it will probably be beyond labors control and will set up tomorrows winners and losers. So logic would be that the early movers will get the preferred pairings and the rest will get the leftovers. It certainly proved profitable for the oil industry.

Its like the stock market; "past performance does not predict future gains".

Also, mgts point on the SFO maintenance "sale" is that they are looking for an investor to increase the capability of the facility/services.

You can't ignore the difficulty UAL has had, but the bashing is more rhetoric than fact.

HSLD
09-03-2007, 03:12 PM
United does not want to sell the maintenance center they want investors to partner with it.

Not wanting to sell and being restricted by the AMFA contract are distinctly different.

Do a Google search on this topic and you'll see the initial press releases were "UAL looks to sell", followed by "AMFA objects", followed by "UAL looks to partner". Darn labor unions ;)

fly2fish
09-03-2007, 11:33 PM
FWIW - my friend just resigned his seniority number at UAL to remain a CRJ captain at Skywest.

I never thought I'd see the day in my career where a pilot would choose a regional over a major. That says volumes about UAL.

Rott

Your friend should read this out loud:

"I am we told dead, I am sofa king we told dead"

Sonny Crockett
09-04-2007, 09:23 AM
Grant123

FWIW after watching over 30 years of legacy regression... United is a tough call. A lot of potential energy with perplexing direction. The pros: huge widebody fleet with awesome reach, over $5 billion cash in the bank, unmatched route/hub network, great pilot group NOT intimidated by mgt, and a good fleet that can continue to earn big money for the next 10 years at which point mgt says they are looking at the next generation narrowbody (737 replacement- why buy equipment now when the next evolution is around the corner), 15% 401K contribution.

The cons: suspect mgt, suspect mgt, suspect mgt and a poor contract.

Crystal Ball- who knows. Study aviation history and you will see that todays winner HAS NOT stayed on top EVER. The merger potential is the elephant in the room. It is stated by all the prophets as a bad thing, but it will probably be beyond labors control and will set up tomorrows winners and losers. So logic would be that the early movers will get the preferred pairings and the rest will get the leftovers. It certainly proved profitable for the oil industry.

Its like the stock market; "past performance does not predict future gains".

Also, mgts point on the SFO maintenance "sale" is that they are looking for an investor to increase the capability of the facility/services.

You can't ignore the difficulty UAL has had, but the bashing is more rhetoric than fact.


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