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View Full Version : RecAAlls?


Martin404
09-04-2007, 06:46 PM
Any idea on when AAL will start to recall and how long it will take to go through the list?

Marty...


AAflyer
09-04-2007, 08:18 PM
Any idea on when AAL will start to recall and how long it will take to go through the list?

Marty...

Marty,

AA has been recalling since the start of the year. They have been putting through classes of roughly 40 as of late, however 50 have been going on the seniority list (MLOA guys stay on MIL leave however their names on back on the list) and they may return when they like.

Next month starts 50 recalls. 25 will start early Oct, and another 25 in the middle of Oct. Not sure if they will continue to put more on the seniority list every month (MLOA guys + actual recalls).


We just retired roughly 40 pilots at the start of Sept. Retirements do nothing but go up monthly and yearly here. (Not factoring any change to 60).

Consensus among many is that by next summer or fall they will have to atleast start formulating a plan for applications, the process etc. That usually takes a few months to set up. If things progress, and some pilots stay at their new airlines we could POSSIBLY be hiring by the very end of 2008, more likely the start or middle of 2009.


Best,

AAflyer

Martin404
09-05-2007, 04:42 AM
Any Idea on how many are by-passing or resigning? (By-pass ratio?)


AAflyer
09-05-2007, 06:03 AM
That seems to vary month to month, it has gone up to 1 out of 6. We are starting another class today. If not mistaken we are down to around 900 on the recall list, and roughly 300+/- recalled.

I can see the above ratio staying that way as we get further down on the list, and furloughees decide to stay at their new respective airline. However, a large aircraft order (with 787) and/ or a new contract that sets the bar MAY push the number of furloghees wanting to return.

AAflyer

ZapBrannigan
09-05-2007, 06:53 AM
I believe AA furloughees also have the option to bypass furlough for 3 years after the last furloughee has been recalled (correct me if i'm wrong). If that is the case, what would be the incentive to return??

Why not wait and return with significant seniority?

wtrav8r
09-05-2007, 09:20 AM
I believe AA furloughees also have the option to bypass furlough for 3 years after the last furloughee has been recalled (correct me if i'm wrong). If that is the case, what would be the incentive to return??

Why not wait and return with significant seniority?


Zap-

Many of the TWA folks below the staple point have accumulated longevity pay. Therefore when they are recalled, their salary may be much more than what they are currently making on the streets. Although they are very junior in senority.

FliFast
09-05-2007, 02:47 PM
Zap-

Many of the TWA folks below the staple point have accumulated longevity pay. Therefore when they are recalled, their salary may be much more than what they are currently making on the streets. Although they are very junior in senority.

All the more reason to keep those darn TWA-ers off the property, some hired as early as 1988 and are junior to 2001 hires at American.

It was a fantastic win for AMR management to have these disgruntled TWA-ers (high priced labor) to be furloughed as oppossed to the relatively newhires which were on second and third year pay.

Just to be clear, those TWA-ers have not accumulated any pay longevity during their 4-6 year furlough vacation. However, as part of the AA-TWA merger, one of the concessions Don Carty gave to APA MEC John Darrah to cooperate with the merger was the restoration of years of service for the NAAtives that were furloughed during the 90's so in essence they accumulated years of service longetivity during their furlough.

Thank goodness for AMR's management that the pilot union, the APA, hasn't suggested the same benefit of longetivity resotoration for those darn TWA-er's which would put over 50% of those returning red-tails to return from furlough at the top of the pay scales. Can you imagine how much it would cost AMR, if the APA would help those TWA pilot troublemakers to have a better career in the form of more money in their pocket after they return from furlough.

I sigh a sigh of relief to know that the APA would rather save the company millions then negotiatate a credit of years of service for those undeserving k-mart pilots who have been furloughed for 4-6 years.

I know exactly what Gerard Arpey will do with the millions in savings. His golf buddies haven't received bonuses in months :-(

The original question was what percentage are bypassing recall. According to the Joe King model as of Aug 30:

Total: 334 of 948 = 35.2% ( MLOA/MDS: 157 = 16.6%). So as of Aug 30, only 334 have been recalled. Anyone have other stats.

FF

7576FO
09-05-2007, 03:39 PM
[quote=FliFast;226143]All the more reason to keep those darn TWA-ers off the property, some hired as early as 1988 and are junior to 2001 hires at American.

It was a fantastic win for AMR management to have these disgruntled TWA-ers (high priced labor) to be furloughed as oppossed to the relatively newhires which were on second and third year pay.

Just to be clear, those TWA-ers have not accumulated any pay longevity during their 4-6 year furlough vacation. However, as part of the AA-TWA merger, one of the concessions Don Carty gave to APA MEC John Darrah to cooperate with the merger was the restoration of years of service for the NAAtives that were furloughed during the 90's so in essence they accumulated years of service longetivity during their furlough.

Thank goodness for AMR's management that the pilot union, the APA, hasn't suggested the same benefit of longetivity resotoration for those darn TWA-er's which would put over 50% of those returning red-tails to return from furlough at the top of the pay scales. Can you imagine how much it would cost AMR, if the APA would help those TWA pilot troublemakers to have a better career in the form of more money in their pocket after they return from furlough.

I sigh a sigh of relief to know that the APA would rather save the company millions then negotiatate a credit of years of service for those undeserving k-mart pilots who have been furloughed for 4-6 years.

I know exactly what Gerard Arpey will do with the millions in savings. His golf buddies haven't received bonuses in months :-(

The original question was what percentage are bypassing recall. According to the Joe King model as of Aug 30:

Total: 334 of 948 = 35.2% ( MLOA/MDS: 157 = 16.6%). So as of Aug 30, only 334 have been recalled. Anyone have other stats.


Yes, I do!

One of my buds is 98 TWA hire. You;re implying ALL TWA pilots furloughed were at the 12 yr FO pay Scale. That is wrong.

Where did you get the 35% bypassing #. Where? No really Where?

You apparently fly for UPS. How then if I work for AAL right now and have a difficult time getting bypass #'s ..How can you know?

There is/was another reason the 90's furloughees were made Whole..but you omit it.

If you're gonna tell a story, make sure you know it.

Oldfreightdawg
09-05-2007, 05:35 PM
I believe AA furloughees also have the option to bypass furlough for 3 years after the last furloughee has been recalled (correct me if i'm wrong). If that is the case, what would be the incentive to return??

Why not wait and return with significant seniority?

You are correct. And that is exactly why the LOA was written this way. Which begs the question: how many deferrals are waiting to see what kind of contract APA ends up with? Seems to me it's not just a matter of seniority, but also of the future earnings/QOL issues still to be hammered out. It could be none of the deferrals return if AAL returns to the brink of BK, or all of them if APA lands a UPS CBA. Who knows?

7576FO
09-05-2007, 07:02 PM
You are correct. And that is exactly why the LOA was written this way. Which begs the question: how many deferrals are waiting to see what kind of contract APA ends up with? Seems to me it's not just a matter of seniority, but also of the future earnings/QOL issues still to be hammered out. It could be none of the deferrals return if AAL returns to the brink of BK, or all of them if APA lands a UPS CBA. Who knows?

I'll be the jerk here...

I think (I think opinion following) If you bypass recall your sen # should be ratio'd after one year.

I'm near the bottom reserve. Working my ass off, other pilots below me staying out on furlough waiting to see waht happens...My ass is tied to this airline. So yeah, I take it personal

LivintheDream
09-05-2007, 11:33 PM
7576,
If you reread his post, you'll see he said that the higher paid TWA people would come back at the top of the scale IF the APA would fight for longevity like they have in the past. As for the numbers, they are coming from HR and a few other sources as well and are very believable.

LTD

Luckydawg
09-06-2007, 01:34 AM
I'll be the jerk here...

I think (I think opinion following) If you bypass recall your sen # should be ratio'd after one year.

I'm near the bottom reserve. Working my ass off, other pilots below me staying out on furlough waiting to see waht happens...My ass is tied to this airline. So yeah, I take it personal

We'll you got one thing right for sure!!

FliFast
09-06-2007, 02:54 AM
Hello 7576FO !!!!


[quote=7576FO;226175
Yes, I do!

One of my buds is 98 TWA hire. You;re implying ALL TWA pilots furloughed were at the 12 yr FO pay Scale. That is wrong.



*Actually 757, I never implied that, I'll clearly explain what I posted. If you're "bud" is a 98 hire, he was probably furloughed in 2002. If given longevity for his furlough he would receive credit for the 6 years he will be on furlough. He will return to AA with that credit and be on 10th year F/O pay. To me, this is near the top of the pay scale. In simple terms:

4 yr service + 6 yrs furlough = 10 year pay.

Where did you get the 35% bypassing #. Where? No really Where?

*The Joe King model which is accumulated by AMR HR/APA and individual pilots providing feedback of their intentions.

You apparently fly for UPS. How then if I work for AAL right now and have a difficult time getting bypass #'s ..How can you know?

*Yes, I fly for UPS, because John Darrah, former APA MEC is quoted in the SUPP CC doctrine that I had no career intentions by coming to work for TWA 12 1/2 years ago, so that I didnt deserve any seniority at the merged TWA/AA. Thanks John, we love you too.

*How can I get the info, because on the TWA side of the house getting recalled for some, is important so they can get out of their lousy airline job or current job selling life insurance to go back to work and rebuild their professional and personal lives that the APA deemed insignifcant.

There is/was another reason the 90's furloughees were made Whole..but you omit it.

*Oh do tell, was it because Don Carty and Jeff Brundrege(sp?) liked the pilot group and did it out of the kindness in their heart ??? No. We were told by our new friends at the APA that as part of allowing the merger with TWA as a defensive move by AMR to offset the proposed merger between United and USAirways, that the APA wanted forgiveness for the $45 million judgement against them for their sickout and to give their recently returned furloughees longevity credit for their years of furlough. The precedent is already in place, the question is, will the APA fight for the TWA pilots like "your bud" so that he can return after 6 years of furlough paid as a 10 yr F/O or a 4th yr F/O. This is a classic case of the APA having a golden opportunity to unify the TWA pilots into the fold or further ostracize them.

If you're gonna tell a story, make sure you know it.

*????


[/quote]

I hope this clearly explains the issues that trouble you while you work at AA.

Whale Pilot
09-06-2007, 03:04 AM
Hello 7576FO !!!!




I hope this clearly explains the issues that trouble you while you work at AA.

So what is your point? Are you trying to incite flamebait or are you just plain stupid?

I don't understand your purpose / hatred that appears to be evident against TWA Pilots.

Seems to me you need to grow up.

Whale

FliFast
09-06-2007, 03:10 AM
Hi Whale,

My point is to clarify what I posted.

I'm sorry you dont understand the purpose or hatred between the TWA pilots and the APA at American Airline. I will be happy to educate you. Have you been out of the country for the last decade or just choose to ignore it ?

Finally, my hatred against the TWA pilot ???..Duh genius, I don't hate the TWA pilots...I am a furloughed TWA pilot.

I like you're closing statement about growing up. I'll pass it on to the 1800 TWA pilots that lost their careers...very good advise from an expert like yourself that has no clue.

Any other TWA pilots on this forum that think Whale is right, we should just grow up and forgive the APA for their treatment ???

Regards Whale, and welcome back

FF

B757200ER
09-06-2007, 03:53 AM
I'm sorry you dont understand the purpose or hatred between the TWA pilots and the APA at American Airline. I will be happy to educate you. Have you been out of the country for the last decade or just choose to ignore it ?

I like you're closing statement about growing up. I'll pass it on to the 1800 TWA pilots that lost their careers...very good advise from an expert like yourself that has no clue.

Any other TWA pilots on this forum that think Whale is right, we should just grow up and forgive the APA for their treatment ???

They'll never understand, because they didn't have to live through it. If I ever get recalled, it will be approximately 5.5 years or more on furlough; all this while junior, new-hire, just-off-probation AA F/Os sit in MY seat, flying former TWA jets out of the former TWA hub on former TWA routes with former TWA Captains still working at AA.

Forgive the APA? Not likely.

7576FO
09-06-2007, 05:26 AM
Hello 7576FO !!!!




I hope this clearly explains the issues that trouble you while you work at AA.

I'm totally for making all furloughees whole.
APA does really stupid things
AA management does really stupid things
If was an ex TW pilot i'd be ****ed

The statement of "This is a classic case of the APA having a golden opportunity to unify the TWA pilots into the fold or further ostracize them."

that might happen on the next contract (furlougheees made whole)

Also Flifast...Just so everyone here knows...where you're coming from

You say you had 12 and 1/2 yrs w/ TWA. That would give you the right to be a Captain on a S-80 of of STL.
Granted you'd be on reserve, and I do not wish that upon anyone.
It does not ultimately matter right now where you are on the Seniority list,
Being a Captain makes up for a lot of things.

Additonally, we have furloughees coming back into the Captain seat.
That is difficult to watch.

My take is if you had 20 years in w/ TWA then hell yeah, you deserve a left seat.

This should be a lesson to all about Mergers and fairness. You can't have both.
It sucks that AA closed all of TWA's pilot bases and threw them into STL.

I was never in agreement with Darah's methodology that TWA pilots lost their career expectations from the 1986 BK on.

I try to be fair. I talk to my furloughed buds. I know they'd love to be in my position on reserve living in base making 125K a year.

FliFast
09-06-2007, 06:42 AM
I'm totally for making all furloughees whole.
APA does really stupid things
AA management does really stupid things
If was an ex TW pilot i'd be ****ed

The statement of "This is a classic case of the APA having a golden opportunity to unify the TWA pilots into the fold or further ostracize them."

that might happen on the next contract (furlougheees made whole)

Also Flifast...Just so everyone here knows...where you're coming from

You say you had 12 and 1/2 yrs w/ TWA. That would give you the right to be a Captain on a S-80 of of STL.
Granted you'd be on reserve, and I do not wish that upon anyone.
It does not ultimately matter right now where you are on the Seniority list,
Being a Captain makes up for a lot of things.

Additonally, we have furloughees coming back into the Captain seat.
That is difficult to watch.




7576FO,

I'll try to be civil with you and clarify. I was hired in 95' with TWA which was 12 1/2 years ago. I had 8 years when I was furloughed in 2003'. If I gave you the impression otherwise, it was probably just the way I posted it.

In terms of not agreeing with the APA and Darrah, all I have to say is that your hard-earned money is going towards dues to support this. They are your representation, if you dont like them, ditch them...just my opinion.

It may be difficult for you to watch someone that was furloughed from their seat as a Capt to return to their position...HOWEVER...I will hear your opinion if you will hear mine.

Most pilots when they upgrade to Capt gives them a payraise to better their lifestyle. They buy a nicer home, a nicer car, a nicer personal trainer for their spouse, etc. I think you get the picture. So here are TWA's 1988-1989 hires that were narrowbody Capts for a couple years and they go from the left seat to the unemployment line. Remember the nicer home and the new pool boy, all of that gets difficult when you're making $1000/month on unemployment.

So you find it difficult to watch one of these cats being recalled to the left seat, I beg to differ. I think they have more than paid for their seat.

I think we can both agree that AMR management will never lift a finger to unify the TWA-ers with the NAAtives. So it is upto the APA to do it. What has been done to the TWA pilots is done....but the question is what does Lloyd Hill and Mike Pliske have in store for the TWA pilots. I'll give you the last word....

FF

AAflyer
09-06-2007, 09:13 AM
Thanks FliFast,

You robbed yet another thread! Kudos to you! Just trying to answer a few simple recall questions, and here is yet another thread destroyed. I am finally seeing who you really are.

I had taken a couple month leave from MBs in general, and now I remember why I did that. Thanks! Time to drop out again for another couple months.

Sincerely,

AAflyer

EXTW
09-06-2007, 03:41 PM
Additonally, we have furloughees coming back into the Captain seat.
That is difficult to watch.




Not quite. ONE came back from a stand-instead furlough to the seat that she could still hold with her seniority. The rest of the returning furloughees are not coming straight back to Captain but to FO positions.


EXTW

7576FO
09-06-2007, 04:26 PM
Not quite again,

That was january.

Even b4 that there was a message about recallees. You will requal on 737D FO or S80 FO and then granted 1 reinstatement. Which would be for CA if ex TW and previously held S80 CA.

7576FO
09-06-2007, 04:42 PM
I'm actually in favor of Supp CC. Most mergers have fences. It's just difficult for both sides.

The main thing is,

This was/is a recall thread. This whole Forum is to help pilots.

I don't feel like i'm helping anyone here.

I have a UAL bud who hates his job. And he's a Captain.

What i'm trying to say is i'm still happy with my job. We at AA are hopeful for better times ahead.
But if you asked me Point Blank would I recommend this profession to anyone?
My answer is no. You can get holidays off at almost any other job and spend more time with family.

I think i'm outta this Forum.
I got defensive when TWA pilots start bashing my Union and Airline. I'm the first to admit APA can suck and our AA mgmt (On Crack) too.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not. TWA was 90 minutes from closing the doors for good.
But one must face reality. TWA got bought by American.
I would never suggest that TWA pilots be grateful. APA and AA mgmt fumbled with the whole integration.
But things could have been different, and here i'm reading inflamitory things from a UPS pilot whom used to work for TWA.

de727ups
09-06-2007, 05:28 PM
To those of you threating to leave and throwing the insults, I would like to say don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

If you can't express yourself in a civil manner there is always flightinfo.

Go away.

Or try again and do it again without the insults.

But this thread is done.