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View Full Version : How would you do it? DAL, SWA


TypicalPilot
09-06-2007, 06:38 PM
Well, I just want to start off by saying that I have been a long time lurker but wanted to get some more "professional" advice. I have been hired at SWA (class date TBD) and also at Delta. My question is what would be the harm in starting a class at Delta and then moving to SWA if/when they call? Can this be done? Does Delta have a contract that you have to sign when you start? Would you get negative attitude at SWA b/c you left a major carrier? Any help would be great


legend
09-06-2007, 07:00 PM
Only my opinion but who do you want to fly for? If it is really SW then stay with them. You will get a class date you just dont know when, probalbly next year sometime. Unless you are unemployed I wouldnt want that on my resume/record especially if I was hired at SW. They want to know you want to work there and not leave as soon as something better comes along... I hear through the grapevine that the first year at SW is a trial period to see if they were right about you and what you protrayed at the interview. Good Luck

HercDriver130
09-06-2007, 07:28 PM
Gee..are ya gonna tell Delta "hey i have im a poolie at SW... and thats where I really want to work... but well that might be a year away, so I am gonna take a class date with...let you train me... then dump on you, and probably in the near future"....

For what its worth... Congratulations on being hired by two of the finest. Nobody can make this desciosn but you. I know what I would do. But thats me. And everybody had different reasons for what they would do. And they would be right for THEM. YOU have to do whats right for you. Personally I would choose ONE of them and decline the other so that someone else could take that slot.

Do what is right for YOU. Not what is right for me or anyone else.


Adlerdriver
09-06-2007, 07:56 PM
Gee..are ya gonna tell Delta "hey i have im a poolie at SW... and thats where I really want to work... but well that might be a year away, so I am gonna take a class date with...let you train me... then dump on you, and probably in the near future"....

:rolleyes: It's just business, dude. Delta wouldn't think twice about sending this guy a furlough letter if things go south sometime in the future. Why should he feel bad about not burning a bridge until absolutely necessary.

Take the bird in the hand for now - make the choice that's best for you when the time comes and feel no guilt. period - dot!

OscartheGrouch
09-06-2007, 07:57 PM
Only my opinion but who do you want to fly for? If it is really SW then stay with them. You will get a class date you just dont know when, probalbly next year sometime. Unless you are unemployed I wouldnt want that on my resume/record especially if I was hired at SW. They want to know you want to work there and not leave as soon as something better comes along... I hear through the grapevine that the first year at SW is a trial period to see if they were right about you and what you protrayed at the interview. Good Luck

I also hear through the grapevine that all airlines have a trial period. I think it is called - probation.:cool:

OscartheGrouch
09-06-2007, 08:04 PM
Gee..are ya gonna tell Delta "hey i have im a poolie at SW... and thats where I really want to work... but well that might be a year away, so I am gonna take a class date with...let you train me... then dump on you, and probably in the near future"....

For what its worth... Congratulations on being hired by two of the finest. Nobody can make this desciosn but you. I know what I would do. But thats me. And everybody had different reasons for what they would do. And they would be right for THEM. YOU have to do whats right for you. Personally I would choose ONE of them and decline the other so that someone else could take that slot.

Do what is right for YOU. Not what is right for me or anyone else.

Herc,

I agree with you about doing what is right for yourself except I always feel bad for someone who could have had a job in the current hiring cycle when someone who really wants to be somewhere else takes a slot. JMHO!

OrionTanker
09-06-2007, 08:04 PM
I agree with Adlerdriver. Go with Delta now, that is the sure thing. When and if SWA calls (they should someday), then you can make that decision on who you want to fly with. You are lucky to be in this situation, so take advantage of it. So what if you leave Delta later, you are doing what is best for you, and nobody else.

ITSALLGOOD
09-06-2007, 08:04 PM
Take the class at DAL. There is no contract. You would not get any negative attitude at SWA (unless they are getting a little tired of losing poolies to DAL...there have been more than a few in the last couple of months). But seriously, if you eventually take the SWA class, they won't care you went to DAL for a few months. They are reasonable and know you can not just fish and hang on the golf course for months while waiting for them to call.
IMHO, you might get to DAL, realize they are currently kicking a$$ (who knows next week) and not want to leave.

kansas
09-06-2007, 08:46 PM
Go to DAL...swimming in the pool is not a guarantee of a job. Of course, this is an ultra long-shot, but this is the airlines...If SWA would get bought or liquidate (again, both great stretches of the imagination at this point), you'll wish you hadn't waited around for them to call.

HercDriver130
09-06-2007, 09:04 PM
You are right... it is just business, and if you read my entire post I stress on several occasions that he should do what is right for him and him alone. However, seeing how it is just business perhaps all of us should stop *****ing when the company tells us to do something that is perfectly legal under the current CBA but just something we dont like... I mean...its just business right.....????

FWIW, I think he should take the job at DAL as well, if he decides later to go to SWA more power to him, it will open another slot at DAL at that time.... the real loser is DAL in that senario though because they would hire him in go od faith, train him in good faith, only to be dumped at the alter so to speak.....

newKnow
09-06-2007, 09:15 PM
Go to the first one that offers you ground school and see if you like it. If not, leave when the other one calls.

Ever heard of the saying, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush?" :D

TypicalPilot
09-07-2007, 08:38 AM
Thanks to all that replied. I still have some time to make my decision and will continue the pros/cons of both airlines. I do feel quite "lucky" to be in this position. I am out of my current job in about two months so I will need to decide by then. I appreciate the advice.

1Seat 1Engine
09-07-2007, 08:45 AM
I think DAL would lay you off without a second thought if they thought it would save them money.

Somebody else mentioned probation too. The airline puts you on probation for the first year; how about you put them on probation too. If they do anything to **** you off, fire'em and move on.

You're in a good position.

dbtownley
09-07-2007, 09:01 AM
I think DAL would lay you off without a second thought if they thought it would save them money.

Somebody else mentioned probation too. The airline puts you on probation for the first year; how about you put them on probation too. If they do anything to **** you off, fire'em and move on.

You're in a good position.

Good post...

Adlerdriver
09-07-2007, 09:24 AM
You are right... it is just business, and if you read my entire post I stress on several occasions that he should do what is right for him and him alone. However, seeing how it is just business perhaps all of us should stop *****ing when the company tells us to do something that is perfectly legal under the current CBA but just something we dont like... I mean...its just business right.....????

FWIW, I think he should take the job at DAL as well, if he decides later to go to SWA more power to him, it will open another slot at DAL at that time.... the real loser is DAL in that scenario though because they would hire him in go od faith, train him in good faith, only to be dumped at the alter so to speak.....

Poor DAL, my heart's just breaking right now. All that good faith and $1.75 might get you a starbucks as you're being escorted off the property the day you get furloughed. Ask DAL/UAL/AA/NWA, etc. about their "good faith" then.

I know you stressed he should do what's right for him – in between other comments that obviously indicated disapproval for doing what’s right for him. I read your post. You started out with a sarcastic “Gee, are you gonna tell Delta….” comment. You also said that you didn’t agree with him taking the DAL job and if it were YOUR decision, you’d leave the slot you didn’t want for someone else.
That slot, should he choose to give it up, WILL get filled by someone else. He got picked first – he gets to give it up first. Seniority – that’s all it is.

I don’t know where you’re coming from on the whole “*****ing about the CBA” thing. I guess you’ve never experienced the company “interpreting” the CBA language differently from the pilots and deciding their version of what’s “perfectly legal”. You want to talk about that, start another thread.

Radial Song
09-07-2007, 09:26 AM
deleted......

Bohica
09-07-2007, 09:30 AM
Lots of guys waited over 2 years for the pool to drain at SW only a few years ago. It could certainly take the long again if things slow down.

Go with Delta and make your decision when SW calls with a firm class date.

grumman
09-07-2007, 07:22 PM
Poor DAL, my heart's just breaking right now. All that good faith and $1.75 might get you a starbucks as you're being escorted off the property the day you get furloughed. Ask DAL/UAL/AA/NWA, etc. about their "good faith" then.

I know you stressed he should do what's right for him – in between other comments that obviously indicated disapproval for doing what’s right for him. I read your post. You started out with a sarcastic “Gee, are you gonna tell Delta….” comment. You also said that you didn’t agree with him taking the DAL job and if it were YOUR decision, you’d leave the slot you didn’t want for someone else.
That slot, should he choose to give it up, WILL get filled by someone else. He got picked first – he gets to give it up first. Seniority – that’s all it is.

I don’t know where you’re coming from on the whole “*****ing about the CBA” thing. I guess you’ve never experienced the company “interpreting” the CBA language differently from the pilots and deciding their version of what’s “perfectly legal”. You want to talk about that, start another thread.

Well said dude. Can't believe in this day and age someone would actually spout off on here about good faith and loyalty. Numerous DAL buds of mine were hired on good faith, trained on good faith, and then furloughed even though there was a "no furlough" clause in the contract. The second round of furloughs - "Force Majure (manure) II" was a real joke. Even though the CBA that HercyDriver refers to clearly stated that furloughs could not be for economic reasons, DAL management did it again anyway two years after 911 claiming "force majure" again - right after spending 40+ million $ securing the pensions for the top 30 or so execs by the way. ALPA had to take them to court about FM II and they won, and those guys got their jobs back with back pay, but how was that for good faith and the good old CBA?

I just wonder if HercDiver even works under a CBA anywhere or if he/she is just stirring the pot and is pis$ed about someone in a good spot to choose.

tripled
09-08-2007, 12:29 AM
If you leave DAL it might actually help their pilot union in the medium to long term because they can point to the # of newhires leaving the company for something better. Pretty strong argument for raising 2/3/4/5th year pay: "look, you want the best pilots here? make them want to work here"

Skyone
09-08-2007, 01:46 AM
Most of you guys are probably right. Here's the way I see it. There are not guarantees in this biz. DAL hadn't furloughed anyone in almost 70 years of existence, until the early 90s. SWA is in the position now (if I am correct). But who knows what the future holds. But I caution everyone in this biz about burning any bridges. Our end of the business is different than the corporate end. We have senority, contracts (made to be broken, eg Force Majeur) and probationary periods.

Do what you think is right for yourself, as others have said. Just take heed that leaving after Delta has invested a chunk of money in training may come around to bite you, even years hence.

The sad fact is that there is zero loyality towards pilots by most companies, but they expect undying loyality towards them.

shredder
09-08-2007, 09:37 AM
No airline would expect you to turn down another job if you are hired into a pool. They also won't mind if you start at Delta and then when they offer a class you leave Delta to start. I know a few guys that started training at CAL and left when SWA called...no hard feelings from SWA at all..they understand that this is a rough business for a pilot. (Don't expect to EVER go back to a job you left, however...whether DAL, CAL or whoever, they don't forget).

I have always been told by smart pilots...interview everywhere, take the first job offered, if something better comes along that you want, take it but if you leave you can't go back.

You may want to do some real research into how much debt some of these airlines have. Quarterly profits are great, but in the long term, leases and debt pose a big obstacle and are hard to overcome. Another thing to consider is the mindset of the airline...many big and money making airlines are destroyed because they grow too fast, or make decisions for market share rather than profitability now and in the future. Just a thought.

Hope this helps.

Box Office
09-10-2007, 04:25 AM
Never turn down a job today for one that could happen who knows when. You have no idea what could happen and being a new hire anywhere is better than only being selected at your top choice.
My opinion, once you start with Delta you won't want to leave...but you will be able to. Plus if SW never calls or takes a long time, you didn't pass on a great opportunity. Leave your options open.



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