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View Full Version : Trans States... Can I do it?


dimondan
09-07-2007, 02:31 PM
I saw a month ago that Trans States was advertising minimums of 250 and 25 and I was wondering if I applied in November with approx. 250 and 50, would it be wise or will I even be looked at.

Thanks for the time...


s10an
09-07-2007, 02:43 PM
I saw a month ago that Trans States was advertising minimums of 250 and 25 and I was wondering if I applied in November with approx. 250 and 50, would it be wise or will I even be looked at.

Thanks for the time...

Give it a shot. You wont be the first one on property.... If you get hired and make it through training, good for you.... If not, get the CFI some hours and send out apps....

Good luck.

ScaryKite
09-07-2007, 02:48 PM
do yourself a favor and go instruct or something to learn a thing or two before your throw yourself into 121 initial jet training! TSA is notorius for hiring low timers and filtering out people that can't cut it! give yourself a chance and get some experience first, the airlines will still be here in a year or two! And I would stay away from TSA! look at XJET, skywest, RAH!


KiloAlpha
09-07-2007, 03:16 PM
Sorry to be a jerk, but I think we should let these 250 hour wonders get "weeded out". Anyone who thinks they should have 34-50 lives in their hands with only 250 hours deserves what he or she gets... OH SHlT, THAT LOOKS LIKE A CLOUD AHEAD! YOUR CONTROLS... :rolleyes:

Flyboy8784
09-07-2007, 05:00 PM
I'd have to agree with KiloAlpha....these airplanes are not easy. I had a 767 Capt. jumpseat the other day....first time on a CRJ...once we got out of 10,000 Ft the first thing he said was "My god...ya'll are busy". The training in intense. We had guys in our training with 6-700 hrs and over 100 multi and they still struggled. a few didnt make it....including a beech 1900 driver (still not sure about that one). Anyway If you wanna make it through the regional with minimal cuts and bruises....get some experience. It'll make your Captains alot happier too....:cool:

undflyboy06
09-07-2007, 05:04 PM
Dimondan, a lot of these fellas are giving you good advice. It really depends on how you feel. If you feel comfortable with your low time and the prospect on flying a jet then apply, and best of luck to you. Also, there's no shame on gaining a little more experience so you feel more comfortable.

To give you hindsight, when I started class at TSA this July I had around 430 TT and 120 ME. There were a few fellas in my class that had ranged from upper 200's to lower 300 hours, but there was nobody with 250 TT and 25 ME.

Also, training is somewhat difficult, but if you study hard and stay motivated and don't psych yourself out you should do fine.

If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

dimondan
09-07-2007, 09:08 PM
There were a few fellas in my class that had ranged from upper 200's to lower 300 hours, but there was nobody with 250 TT and 25 ME.

How did they fair in training? The reason I'm taking the big step is because I just had a bunch of fellow class-men make the step into Piedmont, Great Lakes, & Mesaba to name a few and they all had between 250 and 300 with approx. 50-75 multi and they all have finished I.O.E. successfully (30/30).

I don't currently have p.m. privileges yet so I must post back here.

Thanks again everyone who replied,

reevesofskyking
09-07-2007, 09:30 PM
From last word I got from the office, is they are back to hiring mins of 500 and 50
and I think that is posted back online.
I dropped some resumes off that were in the high 200's and she said they were not looking at anything less than 400 and 50 multi right now.

I heard that was the same results from the last job fair at ORD.

There is alot of value of flight instructing for a while. And instructors are becoming high in demand, and there about the same amount of students for even less instructors. Seems like a good time to teach.

At least that is how it is back home where I am from.

If you did get in at 250, be prepared to work for it in training. It is doable.

It is work.

Reeves

flynavyj
09-08-2007, 01:20 AM
30/30 ain't bad with a bunch of 250 hr guys...but hey, my class was 40 at TSA and we didn't graduate 40, and we're talking guys who weren't 250 hr wonders. Truth of the matter, if your friends had ALL come on to TSA, a good chunk of them would probably have pink lil' slips to take back with them before they do their CFI initial. The training program is do-able, but it's 50% effort, and 50% luck. If you're lucky, you'll make it, if not, you won't. That's the crappy part about a crappy company, don't get over anxious, and think "TSA" is your only option, there are better ones out there to those who wait.

Another note, i have two friends coming to TSA in oct, i didn't walk in their stuff another buddy did (i advised him against doing that though) but...they know what they're getting into, (they've each had atleast 3 friends not make it here) Well, they're about 300 hrs, maybe 350...under 100 multi, and it took a lot of pestering by the guy walking in their resume's to even get them the interview, but...they'll take a 250 guy, they just need to be desperate.

ExperimentalAB
09-08-2007, 07:56 AM
I went through TSA's training last year at 500 TT...was the lowest time guy there w/o a Jet-Type already (they had hired a couple Riddle CAPT guys).

How did we do? Well 50% washed-out. Keep in mind that most of these guys had well over 1000 TT - they weren't hiring w/such low-time when I went through. Then, of those of us who actually made it through, only 50% of us (6, I believe) got through without busting a checkride and/or the Oral.

Friends don't let friends go through training at TSA, which is why I refused to walk-in any resumes...I didn't want to start them on that foot. I wont lie - it was three months of hell - always wondering if I was next on the chopping block to have my dreams squashed! But yes, it is possible. I think that if I had made it through, it's absolutely possible for anybody else to. Don't quite know why it isn't working like that though?!

reevesofskyking
09-08-2007, 08:33 AM
I must be twisted

I cannot say that I enjoyed the training experince, but I feel that I am better off for it. I think I learned some vauable lessons, and I think I can take that to another job with out much problem.

That was the reason that I would walk resumes in.

I was not trying to be a bastard to new kids that wanted to go there, I did give them a complete rundown on how it was going to go. I tried to lead the new guys away from using gouges in training.

In our class, it seemed like people made it through easier with out the gouges.

FOblondie
09-08-2007, 10:07 AM
It's always worth applying because the worst that will happen is you never get called by them. But with 250/50 don't expect to get called anytime soon. Yeah, they were hiring with those times in the very very recent past but they currently aren't. I had a friend with hours slightly higher than yours get her resume walked in about a month ago and she didn't get called. Apparently with lowering their upgrade minimums they've been flooded with resumes with people who have higher time and jet experience. They're probably hanging on to low time resumes for a few months until they get desperate again.

flynavyj
09-08-2007, 10:33 AM
Yep, they'll call when they want to fill a class...till then, you'll be under all the other guys with 400 hrs, and 50 multi...lol, but, it'll come around.

To reeves,

i totally agree, i feel very confident after passing the training program at TSA (ps, were u december? those sound like the stats from that class) had a good 500+ hr buddy fail out of that one, now he's buzzing around at expressjet (after a little more instructing) actually, lots of friends who were waterski new hires, ended up there after the bust.

i dunno, i look back that the experience and think to myself that i wouldn't trade it for anything, but...if i was giving advice to myself as a new hire, i would probably tell myself not to come here, not because life is bad now, but you said it, everyday thinking you might be packing up and going home without job possibilities sitting over the horizon, that's a drag for 3 months.

15789
09-08-2007, 11:41 AM
Sorry to be a jerk, but I think we should let these 250 hour wonders get "weeded out". Anyone who thinks they should have 34-50 lives in their hands with only 250 hours deserves what he or she gets... OH SHlT, THAT LOOKS LIKE A CLOUD AHEAD! YOUR CONTROLS... :rolleyes:

So far it's been my experience that these low timers want to drive through every cloud they can, even the ones with tight tri/quad color gradients, and creating UGLY shadows on the radar.

I don't have a problem with the low time F/O's in general, I have do have a problem with the low time F/O's who either act like they have something to prove, or with their 250 to 500 hrs of total flight experience know more and are "superior" pilots to the captains who have been on the line for 3000+ hours, and there fore can handle anything!

TO ANY POTENTIAL TSA NEW HIRE CANDIDATE:

TSA is not an easy place to work at.

We have an outstanding pilot group, and fantastic flight attendants. Our Management has very little respect for the employees new or otherwise regardless of how desperate or not we need them.

I can promise you that your experience with our training department will be a positive one as long as you keep in mind that you will be given no quarter, you will do it right by, studying an obscene amount, spending every free hour you have learning the SOP(FSI instructors will not teach you our procedures!), profiles, and flows, or you will not pass and you will have a 121 training failure on your FAA record and PRIA record! The Union has an excellent mentor program to help those with problems in training, and the TSA instructors really are some of the best that are out there(Now that Mr. Rich Lecompt is at Flight Safety, we hopefully will see a change with their program as well) use them as a resource.

If you make it through traing and into IOE, our IOE instructor/Ck Airmen are all professional and helpfull. Ask questions , lots of questions, even if you think it's a stupid, the answer you get may save you from a potentially embarrassing problem later on or save your life if the S#it hits the fan.

Most importantly Don't come to the line thinking that you are the next Charles Lindbergh, Chuck Yegar, or Amelia Earheardt. You'll only **** of your captain, and this is a very small company that is shrinking every day!

To those of you who wish to come here, I wish you the best of luck. If you have questions feel free to P.M. me. and No, I do not walk in resume's

Koolaidman
09-08-2007, 03:34 PM
Is E. Benton Vickery still at TSA?

It is funny how the training dept. at SkyWest tries to intimidate everyone into studying. The only thing I think of when they do that is that they don't know what tough training is. FO's don't even have an oral they can fail, and I heard of a CA oral lasting 45 minutes last week!

So if you can make it through TSA training, it is a nice little reminder that you can probably make it through any airline training in the future.

Pilotpip
09-08-2007, 04:57 PM
The June class didn't fare to bad. I think we had 5 out of 30 wash out. No set pattern other than most of them had never taken some time to learn the systems of a jet before by reading a book and at least two of them were 0 to hero with no instruction experience. At 800 hours and 90 multi I was one of the high timers. That's not a joke and it's not something that I think is a good thing. I had no problem with groundschool or for that matter the sim but it wasn't easy. In fact I failed the sim the first time because the flight safety instructor didn't teach us proper technique for an RNAV approach per the SOP. Once I knew what I did wrong, I had no problem. IOE was fantastic, went really well and I learned a ton. I've only been here a short time but the people I've flown with and the crews I've met sitting reserve have been very, very friendly. The instructors know their stuff, but you're going to have a very short time to learn a ton of stuff.

I had a chance to go there last summer and elected to instruct a while longer. It was the smartest thing I think I could do. You're going to have one hell of a time getting a flying job if you wash out. A former coworker took over four months to find another job after failing out there and he had 135 mins. Flight schools aren't going to be too interested in you either because you've already shown you'll bail at the first chance for a jet.

Do yourself a favor. Instruct for a while. Gain some experience, gain some options. In the big picture it will only help. Regionals will still be hiring like mad a year from now.

And I'll leave you with this final thought: TAKE EVERYTHING IN 15789's POST IS 100% CORRECT!

15789
09-08-2007, 07:13 PM
Is E. Benton Vickery still at TSA?

Capt. E Benton Vickery III is no longer at TSA, he has joined the ranks with O. Rosa, S. McNight, T. Miller, and N. Brown!:D

flynavyj
09-08-2007, 07:18 PM
agree with everything that 15789 said, awesome post captain.

And nope, vickery got himself paroled.

reevesofskyking
09-08-2007, 08:05 PM
Yep, they'll call when they want to fill a class...till then, you'll be under all the other guys with 400 hrs, and 50 multi...lol, but, it'll come around.

To reeves,

i totally agree, i feel very confident after passing the training program at TSA (ps, were u december? those sound like the stats from that class) had a good 500+ hr buddy fail out of that one, now he's buzzing around at expressjet (after a little more instructing) actually, lots of friends who were waterski new hires, ended up there after the bust.

i dunno, i look back that the experience and think to myself that i wouldn't trade it for anything, but...if i was giving advice to myself as a new hire, i would probably tell myself not to come here, not because life is bad now, but you said it, everyday thinking you might be packing up and going home without job possibilities sitting over the horizon, that's a drag for 3 months.





I cannot really remember all the numbers for Dec. I would hate to over estimate this, but I think it was right at 45 %

And of that 45% some did not make two orals, or some could not do two rides, and there were a couple that just washed their hands of it during training and left. I can speculate on how their performance was up to the point that they left, I have no idea if they were having a hard time or not.

Last dec is starting to fade a little bit in my mind.
That is the best I can remember

Reeves

flyinaway411
09-08-2007, 08:22 PM
We have an outstanding pilot group, and fantastic flight attendants.

Fantastic flight attendants?! The majority are attention grabbing drama queens. But yes, we do have some really good ones too. The pilot group is awesome. Aside from a select couple, most guys and gals are great to work with.

As far as training goes, it sucks. It is the worst of any out there. But if your dedicated to study hard for this $20K/year job, then you will do fine. As with everything, the more experience you have, and the more education you have about jets in general coming into class, the better off you will be. Good luck with training if you do come here, the job itself is not as bad as people (including myself) may make it out to be.

ExperimentalAB
09-08-2007, 08:26 PM
Fantastic Flight Attendants?! LoL that's the over-statement of the year ;-P

A few were very good indeed - but only a very few...Flyinaway411 has it right - attention grabbing drama-queens! And old, too!! hehe...

15789
09-08-2007, 09:33 PM
you guys must be STL based:p

dimondan
09-08-2007, 11:45 PM
Thank you guys so so so much... You have really given me a lot of direction for life. It seems like it is so easy to wait and instruct for a while but it is hard to wait when all people my age with the 250 hours just out of IOE all saying "Just get in and get a seniority number." I know that flight instructing is valuable and I always wanted to do it but I would only be full on into it for 3-6 months and then I wouldn't be as useful to students anymore since I would only be hoping for a FO position at a regional. I guess that Trans States may not be for me. I just can't justify spending the extra money getting my Single commercial add-on and then CFI & CFII just for a few months of work instructing.

skihigh2002
09-09-2007, 05:38 AM
You should definitely at least get the CFI. What will you do if you don't make it through TSA Training? The CFI will at least give you something to fall back on.

usmc-sgt
09-09-2007, 10:51 AM
We had guys in our training with 6-700 hrs and over 100 multi and they still struggled.


Thats because 6-700 hours of time with over 100 multi is not alot of time or experience

HalinTexas
09-09-2007, 11:07 AM
Place hasn't changed any since I was there in '93-'98.

I bet you can pay some TSA FO to help you before you start training. Let you copy some materials, go over flows, etc. Just a thought.

ExperimentalAB
09-09-2007, 11:49 AM
I must be twisted

I cannot say that I enjoyed the training experince, but I feel that I am better off for it. I think I learned some vauable lessons, and I think I can take that to another job with out much problem.

That was the reason that I would walk resumes in.

I was not trying to be a bastard to new kids that wanted to go there, I did give them a complete rundown on how it was going to go. I tried to lead the new guys away from using gouges in training.

In our class, it seemed like people made it through easier with out the gouges.

Absolutely - It was an incredible experience for me that I would never, ever, want to repeat...I guess that's just what it feels like for anybody that's gotten through their training.

dimondan
09-09-2007, 12:13 PM
May be a different regional would be better.

ExperimentalAB
09-09-2007, 12:16 PM
May be a different regional would be better.

Fixed the post :-)

dimondan
09-09-2007, 12:17 PM
Delete please...

dimondan
09-09-2007, 12:18 PM
You should definitely at least get the CFI. What will you do if you don't make it through TSA Training? The CFI will at least give you something to fall back on.

I'm always going to be a positive thinker and believe that I will make it through training. If not at TSA, somewhere else... The only reason I figured TSA would be best is because I just had a TSA guy in my New Hire Class @ a major when I did an internship and he had nothing but good things to say about TSA.

ExperimentalAB
09-09-2007, 12:20 PM
The only reason I figured TSA would be best is because I just had a TSA guy in my New Hire Class @ a major when I did an internship and he had nothing but good things to say about TSA.

Must have been Mgmt?? 'Cause you 'aint never gonna hear that from a Line-Pilot - hell, even a trainee!! There is no company kool-aid running around Trans States ;-P

dimondan
09-09-2007, 12:23 PM
There is no company kool-aid running around Trans States ;-P

He was saying how it is a lot of hard work but there are a lot of good pilots there that he enjoyed flying with. GLA pilots were saying the same things about the management but if I want the hours and also a high level of close friendships, it's a great place to go.

ExperimentalAB
09-09-2007, 12:56 PM
He was saying how it is a lot of hard work but there are a lot of good pilots there that he enjoyed flying with. GLA pilots were saying the same things about the management but if I want the hours and also a high level of close friendships, it's a great place to go.

FWIW, at Trans States I always did my homework on the Captain I was flying with (and to a lesser degree, the F/A). There were enough lousy ones out there that to be "prepared" was almost required. Now don't get me wrong - they are certainly not all bad - most crews are good and a few are downright killer to fly with...

It's refreshing now, though, as I never worry about who I'm flying with...I know they are all great, and I look forward to every trip.

Disclaimer: Again, folks (especially you TSA guys!), I'm not knockin' your Pilot group...;-P

15789
09-09-2007, 03:49 PM
Again, folks (especially you TSA guys!), I'm not knockin' your Pilot group...;-P

Thats ok, we do enough of it ourselves.:D

maxfli5o
09-09-2007, 09:17 PM
I went through TSA's training last year at 500 TT...was the lowest time guy there w/o a Jet-Type already (they had hired a couple Riddle CAPT guys).

How did we do? Well 50% washed-out. Keep in mind that most of these guys had well over 1000 TT - they weren't hiring w/such low-time when I went through. Then, of those of us who actually made it through, only 50% of us (6, I believe) got through without busting a checkride and/or the Oral.

Friends don't let friends go through training at TSA, which is why I refused to walk-in any resumes...I didn't want to start them on that foot. I wont lie - it was three months of hell - always wondering if I was next on the chopping block to have my dreams squashed! But yes, it is possible. I think that if I had made it through, it's absolutely possible for anybody else to. Don't quite know why it isn't working like that though?!

I'm not suggesting or not suggesting anything:
I went through training at TSA and had no problem getting through. I flew a total of 35 hours in previous 8 months before. We didn't have quite 50 percent wash out, but out of 28 initial new hires, we lost 2 from the oral and 3 in sim. One of the guys we lost in the oral had 6000 hours. The guys we lost in the sim just weren't quite "airline" material. They were not good at procedures, and couldn't fly the airplane. I believe if you study on a daily basis, and don't go with guys like me to the bar every night, you'll do fine. The guys that passed, studied all the material, and knew everything. That is what the check airmen are looking for. Some check airmen are looking for more than others. I had a 2 hour oral, and I knew EVERYTHING. I go overboard when it comes to studying, but they probe to see what you know. I believe if you come from a flight school where they expect a lot from you, you'll do fine. If you are at one of those flight schools where you kind of float by, I think the training might be a little difficult. The material is spoon fed to you, but you still have to do your part. They give you CDs of all the power points and videos to help with flows, and procedures. I'm not saying go there... I'm not saying not to... that's just my 2 cents.

Koolaidman
09-09-2007, 09:41 PM
Their interview doesn't weed out idiots and they pride themselves on being tough. If you can avoid instucting, why not do it? You can instruct when you are a captain flying around with 250 hour guys like yourself! :)

Andym037
09-10-2007, 09:48 AM
Capt. E Benton Vickery III is no longer at TSA, he has joined the ranks with O. Rosa, S. McNight, T. Miller, and N. Brown!:D


Where did he end up? He did my IOE at TSA. Cool guy.

flaps 9
09-10-2007, 09:53 AM
Where did he end up? He did my IOE at TSA. Cool guy.

Those folks are all at Continental

flynavyj
09-10-2007, 11:36 AM
yeps.

to maxfli, was nice to hear their giving out training material before hand, along w/ the vidoes etc...awesome to help the guys get through. apparently they want you to have a couple memory items and limitations down for the interview to make sure you can memorize crap...kinda funny, but i did have a "acquaintance" get shot down because he didn't know the stuff pat...when i heard, it didn't really surprise me...but it is a "start" to a decent interview process.

Pilotpip
09-10-2007, 11:41 AM
My class was the first to get the DVDs. One contains maneuvers, the other is basically a loft session. You can tell that Steve put a lot of time into them. They're very detailed and I think they helped a lot when going to the sim. We also recieved memory items and limitations when we were told we had the job. Not required for the first day but the more you know before it gets hectic the less you have to learn when it is.

15789. Yeah, we're STL guys. Frankly, I'm a little miffed. Your crew lounge is nicer than ours. I did my line check on a trip to RIC. Mexico is a neat little restaurant, had really good food!

supercell86
09-10-2007, 04:50 PM
I would personally just go to Blo I mean Gojets.



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