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View Full Version : Alaskan, Hawaiian


srleslie
09-10-2007, 05:01 AM
Both of these are airlines I'm interested in. I'm wondering how pilot's at these 2 airlines fair compared to the larger majors. Working conditions, salary etc. How much does a senior captain make? With Hawaiian, does one have to live in HI or can you live in one of the US Mainland cities they fly to. Thanks,

Ryan


Green Banana
09-10-2007, 09:44 AM
A better question, Who is hiring? HAL = NO, ALK = YES.

I waited for HAL for years, but they still are trickling fur lows back with no expansion. ALK is hiring and plans 50-75 more airframes in 2010 than today. Lots of new trans cons, lots of new Hawaii flying, Profitable. I'm happy to be here,

Sputnik
09-10-2007, 02:59 PM
Had some neighbors who flew for Hawaiian. Granted I lived there at the time but they told me it was entirely okay to live on West Coast. If you end up flying inter-island, it's some pretty crappy commuting but seemed like equal split between those who liked one vs the other kind of flying.

As to qol...nothing to say really. Guys I knew were happy because they got to live in Hawaii and work.


cesnacaptn
09-10-2007, 04:04 PM
ALK is hiring and plans 50-75 more airframes in 2010 than today. Lots of new trans cons, lots of new Hawaii flying, Profitable. I'm happy to be here,

Are you getting your information from the following article that was written in 2003 which outlined the 2010 plan?


By 2010, this vision will see us flying 50 to 75 more aircraft than we are today; growing 8-to-10 percent per year; dominating the markets we serve; consistently being named one of the best places to work in America; and much more.

That actual plan from 2006-2008 has shown an annual percentage growth of 4.5, 4.1, and 7. That is ASM growth and not airframe growth. The so called company growth is from replacing aging inefficient md-80s with new larger 737-800s. The fleet plan does not show an increase in airframes from 2007 to 2008. In order for the 2010 plan to come true we would have to average at least 25 airplanes in growth for both 2009 and 2010. That would mean hiring 300 plus pilots each year (including growth/retirement/people leaving for greener pastures). I hope the plan comes true, but I'm not holding my breath. I just don't see the company suddenly tripling its growth rate after 2008.

Oh and to answer the original thread:

I think pay at the top end is pretty close. HA has a frozen A plan, replaced by a descent B plan. AS has a 1.9% A plan and a 3% B plan. I would be willing to bet that by the time I retire, Alaska's A plan will be frozen and it will be replaced by an industry average defined contribution. Trips for Alaska are a mix of 1 day turns, and 2-4 day trips. Average days off is about 15-16 with a min max of 11-20. Reserve guarantee is 76 hours of pay and 11 days off. I would say fewer than a third of all pairing are commutable on both ends. You will waste a lot of time and extra nights away from home if you don't live in domicile--with the exception of PDX. It's not a domicile, but there are many overnights there. We have quite a few pilots that commute out of PDX.

I don't know too much about HA. I know they only have a HNL and SEA base. I think the 717 flying interisland has no overnights. The 767 is mostly 2 day trips. Sydney and Manilla I'm will to bet are multi-day trips.

EMBPLT
09-10-2007, 05:36 PM
So does Alaska have any confirmed aircraft growth after '08 or are they all replacment aircraft?

Justin Case
09-10-2007, 08:00 PM
So does Alaska have any confirmed aircraft growth after '08 or are they all replacment aircraft?

Depends on who you ask. Bottom line is that Alaska has always been a conservative company. At this time it appears we are shrinking by comparing retirements to new Captain positions. It doesn't help that training is about a year behind. The company has asked for training relief outside of contract negotiations. Also, Boeing just offered 3 more 737-800's out delivery sequence. Alaska took the planes, but will return 3 737-400's earlier. It's to bad because it sounds like we need more 737-400 freighters. I have always said it is an O.K. job, but there must be a reason this sixth year first officer from the Seattle area has applied somewhere else.

Al Aska
09-11-2007, 08:35 AM
This would be a great place to work... Big problem with management having a hate the pilot mentality, you really feel it all the way down to the gate agents!

I always feel like the company is trying to F me over... I should not feel that way.... Maybe it is just me.

Too much inbreeding in upper management! Need some new blood here!

The flying can be fun.... Upgrade is slow... could be worse.. Could be out of work...

Rama
09-11-2007, 09:21 AM
Hawaiian still has 30+ on furlough. It will probably take 2 years or so to recall and then start hiring. The age 60 rule may change things also and upgrade is very long, the profile shows 1991 hire for junior captain.

Justin Case
09-11-2007, 09:26 AM
This would be a great place to work... Big problem with management having a hate the pilot mentality, you really feel it all the way down to the gate agents!

I always feel like the company is trying to F me over... I should not feel that way.... Maybe it is just me.

It's not just you. Alot of people I fly with feel this way. The good thing is that since you feel this way you still care. What is more depressing is the amount of pilots at Alaska who just don't care anymore.

QCappy
09-11-2007, 03:31 PM
Alaskan, Hawaiian
Both of these are airlines I'm interested in.
Ryan


If you're that interested in Alaska, you better get the name right or you will see the door pretty quick.;)

Green Banana
09-11-2007, 05:59 PM
If you're that interested in Alaska, you better get the name right or you will see the door pretty quick.;)

I went to an AirInc scam to talk to Delta, The guy put his hand on my shoulder and said "Son, It's Delta Air Lines, Three words", as he looked over my cover letter. I politely pointed out the huge " Delta Airlines" sign over his head. That was the end of that conversation......

av8instyle
09-11-2007, 09:13 PM
When I was hired over six years ago I was bottom of my class and my seniority number was around 1470. Guys getting hired now have around number 1530 or so, and that is because the retirements are happing so quickly that the new seniority lists that are updated every 6 months are 25 numbers out of date by the time they get published.
The 2010 dream is alive and well...right. We are losing a 200, 400, and MD for every 800 we are gaining. They can barely keep up with retirements and MD-737 conversions in training. You think they're gonna grow the pilot force by an extra 600 dudes by 2010? They probably don't even have that many apps, let alone that many sim slots.
The only thing you can count on happening by 2010 is mediation.
You weren't here when the guys were told 2000 by 2000 (2000 pilots by the year 2000).
And the pay really rocks right now. So with the crappy pay, the long upgrades, the crappy reserve system, the inability to grow, and the unhappy pax, "Vision 2010" looks like a really super duper deal.
Hey, at least we get to fly to Hawaii.

av8instyle
09-11-2007, 09:15 PM
BTW, I can name one more 6 year pilot that has an active app in elsewhere.
Can brown turn my frown upside down?:(



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