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View Full Version : WN control check?


31wins
09-17-2007, 03:13 PM
Hi all you Southwest guys/gals,
I was in the jumpseat the other day (Thank you!) and was startled by the FO's control check. I thought he was trying to fling the ailerons right off the wings. Are you taught to do the control check as fast as possible? Are your 737-700 built to withstand this kind control check? They must be, but it seemed really odd.


HuronIP
09-17-2007, 04:12 PM
Hi all you Southwest guys/gals,
I was in the jumpseat the other day (Thank you!) and was startled by the FO's control check. I thought he was trying to fling the ailerons right off the wings. Are you taught to do the control check as fast as possible? Are your 737-700 built to withstand this kind control check? They must be, but it seemed really odd.

I'm in training and I don't recall anyone telling us to conduct the control check as fast as possible.

TOPDOG
09-17-2007, 04:35 PM
Hi all you Southwest guys/gals,
I was in the jumpseat the other day (Thank you!) and was startled by the FO's control check. I thought he was trying to fling the ailerons right off the wings. Are you taught to do the control check as fast as possible? Are your 737-700 built to withstand this kind control check? They must be, but it seemed really odd.

That's just Southwest standard, do everything really fast.


328dude
09-17-2007, 07:28 PM
Must be a military thing. :)

ghilis101
09-18-2007, 01:22 AM
haha since when is the military fast at ANYTHING?

shiftwork
09-18-2007, 06:23 AM
Probably a guy that learned in Cessna's:p

HoursHore
09-18-2007, 06:26 AM
Must be a military thing. :)

Thanks to an accident years ago due to cross wired controls, AF control checks (At least the KC 135R and T-1A) take forever and must be accomplished with a crew chief watching to make sure the controls are moving properly.

While i was in the navy we just did it the Airline way.

rickair7777
09-18-2007, 07:43 AM
I do the control check full range (I see some folks who do not) and I do it fairly abruptly...I want to ensure that any abrupt inputs I may to make in the air have already been tested on the ground. I have a friend (USCG) who was involved in the clean up of that AK thing off of LA, and I flew with plenty of folks who knew the crew on the mesa B-1900 that over-pitched at CLT...it gets to me a little bit, I don't take flight controls for granted.

md11phlyer
09-18-2007, 11:45 AM
I do the control check full range (I see some folks who do not) and I do it fairly abruptly...I want to ensure that any abrupt inputs I may to make in the air have already been tested on the ground. I have a friend (USCG) who was involved in the clean up of that AK thing off of LA, and I flew with plenty of folks who knew the crew on the mesa B-1900 that over-pitched at CLT...it gets to me a little bit, I don't take flight controls for granted.

Full range yes, abruptly NO. An abrupt control change on a flight control with no air load on it isn't proving anything, it's just poor airmanship and hard on the airplane.

The CLT crash would not have been avoided by a rull range control check, and I'm sure they probably did one. Judging a few inches of elevator stop bolt misplacement is virtually undetectable as they would have gone full forward to the 'stops.' The 'stops' were unfortunately not in the right place.

Not dogging on ya, just don't beat on your airplane because you think it will help predict flight control problems.

Short Bus Drive
09-18-2007, 01:36 PM
Full range yes, abruptly NO. An abrupt control change on a flight control with no air load on it isn't proving anything, it's just poor airmanship and hard on the airplane.

The CLT crash would not have been avoided by a rull range control check, and I'm sure they probably did one. Judging a few inches of elevator stop bolt misplacement is virtually undetectable as they would have gone full forward to the 'stops.' The 'stops' were unfortunately not in the right place.

Not dogging on ya, just don't beat on your airplane because you think it will help predict flight control problems.

I thought the CLT thing was because of a part replaced "upside down" in the elevator? Bad diagrams by Raytheon? Same in HYA with Colgan. They pitched up, tried to trim "down", but were actually continuously trimming UP!:confused:
As far as Alaska, easy to Monday morning quarterback, but they kept dinking around with the jackscrew, and kinda hurt themselves (MX,Dispatch, pilots)?

Old control check saying on the 80: "Nuts and Knees!!"

newgrad411
09-18-2007, 01:49 PM
Are your 737-700 built to withstand this kind control check?

You kidding?

It's a boeing; I'm sure they are holding up just fine.

Right up there with Dehavillands, unless your talking ahout the fancy dancy big ones and their landing gear.

rickair7777
09-18-2007, 04:36 PM
Full range yes, abruptly NO. An abrupt control change on a flight control with no air load on it isn't proving anything, it's just poor airmanship and hard on the airplane.

The CLT crash would not have been avoided by a rull range control check, and I'm sure they probably did one. Judging a few inches of elevator stop bolt misplacement is virtually undetectable as they would have gone full forward to the 'stops.' The 'stops' were unfortunately not in the right place.

Not dogging on ya, just don't beat on your airplane because you think it will help predict flight control problems.

I agree that the CLT problem was probably not detectable from the cockpit, since the 1900 doesn't have a deflection indicator (my airplane does).

I don't slam the controls around, but I have enough systems and mechanical engineering experience to know that rapid movement is more likely to expose a problem in hydraulic servo valves and actuators.

POPA
09-18-2007, 09:30 PM
Old control check saying on the 80: "Nuts and Knees!!"

My first IOE check airman taught me: "Left knee, weenie, right knee."

Roger Ball
09-19-2007, 05:34 AM
What kind of dork has a problem with something so trivial...they gave you a ride and now you have the nerve to badmouth them?

av8r4aa
09-19-2007, 07:07 AM
What kind of dork has a problem with something so trivial...they gave you a ride and now you have the nerve to badmouth them?
Roger,
The guy was just asking what the norm is at SWA.
Had I seen that I would wonder also.

If the pilot banged the controls stop to stop I would question
his actions also.

TonyC
09-19-2007, 12:44 PM
... I have enough systems and mechanical engineering experience to know that rapid movement is more likely to expose a problem in hydraulic servo valves and actuators.




It could also be reasonably argued that rapid movements, stop to stop, without the dampening of airloads is also more likely to cause a problem with hydraulic components.





.

4th Level
09-20-2007, 07:28 AM
It could also be reasonably argued that rapid movements, stop to stop, without the dampening of airloads is also more likely to cause a problem with hydraulic components.





.

I totally agree.I commute, and cringe when I feel the entire ass-end of the plane move as Cappy jams the rudder pedals stop to stop. I'm not too sure what the thingy is that its banging against at 3000psi, but I'm fairly certain it wasn't designed for it.

Some guys just rush for the sake of rushing - without really stopping to consider why. Not unlike changing frequencies. I'm still fascinated with why some dudes feel the need to dial up the new freq and throw the switch like it was some kind of a race - usually cutting off the controller as he is starting to say "before you go, or no, the freq was.....". I will say that in my 15 here, that haul-ass mentality has died off considerably (thankfully).