Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




grittyteeth
09-19-2007, 06:39 AM
So during upgrade at a regional I busted my check ride but passed the subsequent ride. Does anyone know of similar people who've been hired by the majors?
Dr. Ed don't waste your time here, your input isn't wanted.


Slice
09-19-2007, 06:52 AM
So during upgrade at a regional I busted my check ride but passed the subsequent ride. Does anyone know of similar people who've been hired by the majors?
Dr. Ed don't waste your time here, your input isn't wanted.

Never have but there have been plenty who made it to the majors. Probably a matter of when, where, and why. The longer ago it was the less it will matter.

B757200ER
09-19-2007, 07:27 AM
It is not a show stopper. Don't get defensive, explain in detail, have recommendation letters from that company. It happens.


Bucking Bar
09-19-2007, 07:45 AM
B757200ER is correct.

Even those folks who have not busted a ride would be well served to get a LOR from a Line Check Airman, of Chief Pilot. Those LOR's seem to carry a lot of weight when interviewing at a new employer.

CRJAV8OR
09-19-2007, 08:21 AM
Busted my initial 121 upgrade check ride in '01, and passed two days later. Currently swimming in the pool at Southwest and UPS (although not yet hired by either), so I would guess it does not matter much. Never even came up at UPS. SWA did ask if I ever failed a check ride, and simply wanted any relavent details. Be truthful and don't sweat it.

de727ups
09-19-2007, 09:30 AM
I busted a part 91 F/E ride with the FAA in 1985 and got interviews in 1989 with UPS, CAL, and World. You will always get asked about it. Have a great story about how you learned from the experience and how you are better for it, now. That's what they want to hear.

FIIGMO
09-19-2007, 10:09 AM
SKYW? If so PM.... thx

hangaber
09-19-2007, 12:53 PM
I busted a part 91 F/E ride with the FAA in 1985 and got interviews in 1989 with UPS, CAL, and World. You will always get asked about it. Have a great story about how you learned from the experience and how you are better for it, now. That's what they want to hear.

....and also how it won't happen again....
Don't get stressed about it. Don't expect sympathy but instead show them your maturity. You'll do fine.

Patch
09-19-2007, 01:10 PM
I busted a checkride before getting picked up with SWA. When asked about it during the interview, I explained what happened and left it at that. We talked about the incident for all of 30 seconds.
I wouldn't try to talk about about how you've learned SO MUCH from the experience and how you're SO much of a better pilot because of it. It makes you look like you're trying to hard. Just answer the "Have you failed a checkride" question and move on...

Patch

dojetdriver
09-19-2007, 01:23 PM
I guess it can depend. But some airlines know that certain other airlines have unusually high check ride failures and don't even bother with it.

Case in point, my former employer had a huge pink rate on the CRJ. Well over 50%, and some classes maybe only one or two guys passed the first time around. Of course, there were the usual reasons. Guys not studying enough, guys having bad attitudes, just plain having a bad day in the sim, etc. However, the training department was notorious for making the CA ride overly difficult. You had to be Chuck freak'n Yeager/Neil Armstrong to get through it unscathed. Some of it had to do with the ego of the guys in the training department. Many guys started referring to it as the "pink badge of courage" if they transitioned into the CRJ. I know one guy that had a 7 hour ride, and yes, he passed. Examiner never bothered to combine maneuvers. You know, like when you do a V1 cut, to a single approach, to a single engine go around, it takes care of 3 maneuvers in a relatively short amount of time. But come on, 7 hours?

When these guys were interviewing at the majors in 2000-2001, it was never even an issue for some. In fact, I remember some guys saying it was never even brought up in the interview. Or, the interviewer commented that that they have seen a lot of applicants from that airline with pink slips, and left it at that.

whiskerbizkit
09-19-2007, 01:54 PM
Its no big deal, they know your human. Most only look back 5 years anyway. I had pink slips, yep 2 in my career and was called by SWA, JB, and AT. They look at your track record, you busted a type ride but have been a captain for X amount of years with no PC busts or violations.

seaav8tor
09-19-2007, 06:23 PM
Not to worry. As time passes the bar keeps being reset lower and lower. Time is on you side.

Ten years from now; Bust- no problem, No college- no problem, Height/weight.... fit in the seat- no problem, DUI- no problem, Prior convictions- no problem, Medical issues- no problem.

All you have to do is want to fly.

Experience............... none required, will train!


M P L

azvandriver
09-19-2007, 07:21 PM
It is my understanding they only way they can find out is if it is logged in your logbook or you tell them.

dojetdriver
09-19-2007, 07:31 PM
It is my understanding they only way they can find out is if it is logged in your logbook or you tell them.

Not true. Have you ever requested your records from the FAA? Your get a huge stack of copies of EVERYTHING you have ever filled out that the FAA needed to see. You medical apps, your 8710's, your written tests, the temporary certificates that the examiner/check airman has, etc. EVEN the ones that are salmon in color and designate a check ride failure.

I pinked the oral portion of my initial CFI, and guess what. There was a copy of it.

You could try telling a future employer that you have never pinked a ride. And if they do send you the "conditional letter of employment" pending your background check, what do you think they are going to do if you elected to tell them "no" because you think that is the only way they will know, aside from a log book entry?

I don't think you will be getting a job there.

ewrbasedpilot
09-19-2007, 07:38 PM
Honesty is the best policy. Lying or getting caught up in one is a nail in the coffin. Even the best have their bad days. Tell the truth and move on. You'll feel better about yourself and know you're not telling a "white lie". If something does happen later in your career and they start digging and find out, you're toast. Good luck!

dojetdriver
09-19-2007, 07:47 PM
Honesty is the best policy. Lying or getting caught up in one is a nail in the coffin. Even the best have their bad days. Tell the truth and move on. You'll feel better about yourself and know you're not telling a "white lie". If something does happen later in your career and they start digging and find out, you're toast. Good luck!

Agreed, besides, if you handle it well, it takes care of a bunch of the items they want to know about you.

1. Do you take accountability for you actions?
2. How do you handle failure?
3. Can you handle that fact that you are not perfect?
4. Do you assign blame when bad things happen to you?
5. Do you learn from past mistakes and try to improve as a pilot?

etc.

A well handled answer can check off many of the boxes they need to cover.

azvandriver
09-19-2007, 08:17 PM
For the record I did not say to, nor do I advocate lying about failed checkrides.

Did you receive your 8410s from the FAA, as that is the document in question here.

dojetdriver
09-19-2007, 09:35 PM
For the record I did not say to, nor do I advocate lying about failed checkrides.

Did you receive your 8410s from the FAA, as that is the document in question here.

I never said you advocated it, just posted a FACT that you did not seem to know, only speculated on. All I did was post the possible consequences of what could happen if somebody chose to take your speculation as fact. I have seen it happen to people who were not 100% honest during the interview process, but the background check found something they should have told the truth on. Not rolled the dice and hope they don't find out because they never told them.

I'm not sure of the documents designated number, but there it was, a photocopy of the pink slip. As well as the copies of the temps from all the check rides I passed, all my 8710's, all my written tests, all my medical apps, medical certs, etc.

Like I said, have you ever requested your records from the FAA? They charge by the copy, and it ends up being A LOT more than you think it will.

Canyonair
09-19-2007, 09:50 PM
As a Chief Piliot I have personally never seen the massive amounts of paperwork mentioned as the result of an FAA Airman Background Check. The only only thing I have seen from the FAA is a single piece of paper verifying certificates and any past or pending violations or actions. The company records request usually yields the training records and 8410's.

dojetdriver
09-19-2007, 10:07 PM
Fair enough, but still doesn't change the FACT that there is a record of check ride failure on file at the FAA.

Whatever anybody wants to tell the FAA when asked the question is up to them.

1Seat 1Engine
09-19-2007, 10:46 PM
I think at SWA, they wouldn't care about the busted checkride but they'd really like to see how you explain it at the interview.

If you can explain it and not come off like a tool, or someone who can't take responsibility for a mistake, then you're a goner.

Otherwise, I don't think they really care.

1jetpilot
09-19-2007, 11:11 PM
Okay, guys the official word here after talking to the FAA Program Manager in detail about this very subject is, PRIA goes back 5 yrs and only 5 yrs. If you are past this 5 yr mark, the training records check for the FAA records do not document that far back. It is simply against the law (PRIA) to report disapprovals more than five yrs back. Companies who reveal busts past the five yr mark will be fined with FAA sanctions. It was also explained to me that busts or disapprovals are not reported in the FAA records that companies request for the future employees. :D

FlyByCable
09-20-2007, 06:52 AM
I guess it can depend. But some airlines know that certain other airlines have unusually high check ride failures and don't even bother with it.

Case in point, my former employer had a huge pink rate on the CRJ. Well over 50%, and some classes maybe only one or two guys passed the first time around. Of course, there were the usual reasons. Guys not studying enough, guys having bad attitudes, just plain having a bad day in the sim, etc. However, the training department was notorious for making the CA ride overly difficult. You had to be Chuck freak'n Yeager/Neil Armstrong to get through it unscathed. Some of it had to do with the ego of the guys in the training department. Many guys started referring to it as the "pink badge of courage" if they transitioned into the CRJ. I know one guy that had a 7 hour ride, and yes, he passed. Examiner never bothered to combine maneuvers. You know, like when you do a V1 cut, to a single approach, to a single engine go around, it takes care of 3 maneuvers in a relatively short amount of time. But come on, 7 hours?

When these guys were interviewing at the majors in 2000-2001, it was never even an issue for some. In fact, I remember some guys saying it was never even brought up in the interview. Or, the interviewer commented that that they have seen a lot of applicants from that airline with pink slips, and left it at that.



Your former chief pilot is now an off the street management captain at UPS!

RedeyeAV8r
09-20-2007, 07:27 AM
Not to worry. As time passes the bar keeps being reset lower and lower. Time is on you side.

Ten years from now; Bust- no problem, No college- no problem, Height/weight.... fit in the seat- no problem, DUI- no problem, Prior convictions- no problem, Medical issues- no problem.

All you have to do is want to fly.

Experience............... none required, will train!


M P L

You forget one:

Illegal Immigrant status?...........No Problem

dojetdriver
09-20-2007, 08:36 AM
Your former chief pilot is now an off the street management captain at UPS!

Correction, TWO of my former chief pilots are management pilots at UPS.

grittyteeth
09-21-2007, 07:20 AM
Thanks for the input. As to redeye and seaava8r and the lowering of the bar, no doubt, before long the'll even take my nine year old :)

Panel Monkey
09-21-2007, 09:10 PM
Thanks for the input. As to redeye and seaava8r and the lowering of the bar, no doubt, before long the'll even take my nine year old :)

So yer sayin there's a chance!!!:D



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1