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View Full Version : AQP and Airlines


xkuzme1
09-19-2007, 12:07 PM
I was wondering. What airlines train via the AQP authorization?


944Turbo
09-19-2007, 12:25 PM
I was wondering. What airlines train via the AQP authorization?


I know that CAL uses AQP on all it's fleet, and DAL on the 73N, and M88.

pilotc90a
09-19-2007, 01:09 PM
NWA has been AQP on all fleets since the retirement of the DC-10. Most fleets were AQP since 1999.


Doug Masters
09-19-2007, 02:18 PM
I know that CAL uses AQP on all it's fleet, and DAL on the 73N, and M88.

And 757/767

Booker
09-19-2007, 03:54 PM
UAL and PDT are AQP also.

MikeB525
09-19-2007, 04:19 PM
Ok, for idiots like me, what is AQP?

GreenFolder
09-19-2007, 05:07 PM
Alaska has AQP

7576FO
09-19-2007, 05:12 PM
AA AQP all fleets.

Loved the 20 minute computer oral.

dojetdriver
09-19-2007, 05:51 PM
Ok, for idiots like me, what is AQP?

Advance Qualification Program training. It's different than "conventional training" in that there is no technical "check ride". Usually an MV (maneuvers validation) and a LOFT (line orientated flight training). The MV is just that, maneuvers. Steep turns, stalls, whatever. To make sure you do them to the appropriate standard. The loft is for the judgment and overall captain/fo assessment for line operations. It's a train to proficiency method vs doing the required items and doing them either pass/fail. If you screwup, you get training till you get it right vs. getting a pink slip for an unsat performance.

There is usually a different grading criteria, like intentionally exceeding a limitation, safety of flight in doubt, etc are showstoppers or un sats, just like under conventional training.

It can also be A LOT more paper work and head ache for the company as many times the data is tracked by the FAA, and there are more criteria that has to be met as far as how the training was conducted, etc. Especially of the AQP program is new to the airline.

I forgot, on the MV you get "mulligans" as they are called. You can screw up one thing twice or two things once without getting an un sat. If there is time left at the end of the MV (usually is), you can repeat the one thing you messed up, up to twice. Or the two things once, before getting and un sat and additional training. At least, it was like that at the AQP operator I was at, don't know if it's carrier specific or not.

HPilot
09-19-2007, 07:27 PM
US Airways/America West has it.

RedBaron007
09-20-2007, 07:01 PM
US Airways/America West has it.

The wholly owned airlines - Piedmont and PSA - also have it on the regional side.

Bucking Bar
09-20-2007, 07:06 PM
How do people like this system?

I may be used to the old fashioned way of taking an oral and type ride / pro. check, but, AQP just wears me out with a checkride every week. I would rather do one and be done with it.

dojetdriver
09-20-2007, 08:23 PM
How do people like this system?

I may be used to the old fashioned way of taking an oral and type ride / pro. check, but, AQP just wears me out with a checkride every week. I would rather do one and be done with it.


I guess it just depends on the way your carrier handles it. At the carrier/AQP I was at, the events were pretty close to conventional as far the schedule goes. Also, the oral was similar. Just no pressure of getting a pink slip, just an un sat and retraining till I get it right, which never happened by the way. Only difference being, an FO went for a 6 month PT, just like a CA. The reason was two fold, on an understaffed aircraft, it's CHEAPER to pull a CA and FO off line for one event vs, TWO CA's. Also, think about it. You ever see some FO's (myself included) try to go into the sim for some V1 cuts/stalls/steep turns after not doing them for a full year? Not like you get to practice that stuff on line before the PT.

If I'm not mistaken, I thought I heard that some airlines send guys to a training/checking event every 9 months or so under their AQP, possibly AA? Don't know. So yeah, that could suck.

Also, I thought I heard some FedEx guys saying saying on here a while ago that they preferred conventional vs AQP. I believe that was during their whole "purple nugget" thing and many questions were being raised on the training of new hires going in the MD-11.

Personally, I liked it better vs the two conventional training events I have been through since my former employer. Maybe it just had to do with the way company ran the program

tomgoodman
09-20-2007, 08:41 PM
When we switched to AQP, one big advantage was only having to go to ATL once a year. Previously, we had to report every six months -- alternating between a proficiency check and a "training in lieu of" a check. Most guys felt that one visit to Virginia avenue per year was more than sufficient. :rolleyes:

frozenboxhauler
09-20-2007, 09:45 PM
FedEx has it for the MD-11, DC-10 and Airbus. I'm not sure about the 727.
fbh

Booker
09-21-2007, 04:39 AM
How do people like this system?

I'm in complete agreement with dojetdriver: It depends on the company. I actually didn't mind the footprint at PDT, for initial qualification or CQ. I think the recurrent training at my current employer is about thirty years behind the times by comparison. Now, some of the instructors/evaluators left much to be desired, but you'll get that regardless of whether the program is AQP.

Further, I understand that UAL has one of the best training programs in the industry. (UAL also has the 9/18 schedule for some fleets, although I don't know the specifics of it.)



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