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View Full Version : Hats ?!


UnlimitedAkro
09-21-2007, 03:32 AM
Seems like most airlines dont require pilots to wear them, and most pilots dont wear them.

Do any airlines require them to be worn?


ERJ135
09-21-2007, 04:00 AM
Doesn't AA require them? I thought so?

Booker
09-21-2007, 04:31 AM
Last I heard, they are still mandatory at UA as well.


Lifeisgood
09-21-2007, 05:13 AM
It's one of those controversial topics on what's more professional almost like military vs. civilian pilot candidate. With the obvious answer though.

AA, UAL, DAL require them. CAL only when wearing the jacket. Correct me if I am wrong.

What I noticed is that when people stop wearing hats too many of them overtime stop shining their shoes and even ironing their shirts and taking their pants and jackets to dry cleaning.

Is it connected to the profession going down the toilet? I think it is.
It is much easier to convince people that you are underplayed and overworked if you stay professional.

aa73
09-21-2007, 05:20 AM
Is it connected to the profession going down the toilet? I think it is.
It is much easier to convince people that you are underplayed and overworked if you stay professional.

Nah, don't think so. In fact, it's been my observation that wearing a hat actually contributes to the downfall of this profession - because we look like bus drivers or curb side attendants. Is that who you want to look like/be paid like?

You'll notice that the most successful airline of all time - SWA - doesn't require hats. Their pilots make the most money out of all the PAX airlines. They seem very professional to me. Seems like the biggest legacies - old, outdated, low morale - are the ones that still require hats.

Hats are outdated and are on the way out. Yes, they looked professional, even glamorous, in their day. But the new airline pilot look is toned down a little, more like a businessman look. Still very professional with the blazer, instead of the leather jacket. But no hat.

73
hatless at AA;)

P.s. I bet this one gets at least 5 pages!

ExAF
09-21-2007, 05:20 AM
I'll just post and answer to the question rather than pontificating on the merits of wearing said cover. NWA doesn't require the hat any more. I'll bet Lifeisgood is bald.;)

Patch
09-21-2007, 05:22 AM
I'll just post and answer to the question rather than pontificating on the merits of wearing said cover. NWA doesn't require the hat any more. I'll bet Lifeisgood is bald.;)


Or a retired Colonel...

poor pilot
09-21-2007, 05:25 AM
I for one like the hat. It completes the uniform.

UnlimitedAkro
09-21-2007, 05:33 AM
Nah, don't think so. In fact, it's been my observation that wearing a hat actually contributes to the downfall of this profession - because we look like bus drivers or curb side attendants. Is that who you want to look like/be paid like?

You'll notice that the most successful airline of all time - SWA - doesn't require hats. Their pilots make the most money out of all the PAX airlines. They seem very professional to me. Seems like the biggest legacies - old, outdated, low morale - are the ones that still require hats.

Hats are outdated and are on the way out. Yes, they looked professional, even glamorous, in their day. But the new airline pilot look is toned down a little, more like a businessman look. Still very professional with the blazer, instead of the leather jacket. But no hat.

73
hatless at AA;)


This is the whole reason I brought this up!

Last couple times I have cockpit-jumpsat at American, the capt's have asked where my hat is, and before I could answer, the FO jumped in with "it isnt required" or "the hat is a joke, and makes the uniform look unprofessional". and so on.

Many people think it is an essential part of the uniform, while others strongly feel like it should not be a part of the uniform...

Really I could go with or without the hat and be perfectly happy, but I was just trying to figure out why everyone is so divided on the hat issue??

ERJ135
09-21-2007, 05:41 AM
I'm old school all the way. I always wear my hat unless walking around on ready rsv. Just wish I could get a hold old white Pan Am clipper hat. HAHE that would be cool.

ExAF
09-21-2007, 05:49 AM
It was very interesting to watch who wore and who didn't when the hats went optional at NWA. Now that they have been optional for a while, it is almost comical the way you can categorize those that do and don't wear hats. It has absolutely nothing to do with professionalism. It is usually broken down by ego/power perception, hair volume, outside air temperature (very closely associated with OAT), commuter (or not), equipment flown and dare I say it...geekiness. Ego and geekiness are by far the most prevalent followed closely by hair volume. You don't have to have a PHD in behavioral science to see the corolation either. Just a casual observation. Cheers...

aa73
09-21-2007, 05:58 AM
I think it should definitely be optional. That way, those who like it can wear it, and those who don't can ditch it.

At AA, it makes sense to go optional, since half of our guys ditched it for good after APA's Hats Off campaign anyway. Plus, the AA hat (Superior) is poor quality and the hat emblem is a friggin' patch that always ends up crooked. Looks like crap.

I have noticed that most guys who don't wear hats tend to have more hair when they're older....

73

Skyone
09-21-2007, 06:10 AM
Seems pretty simple. When you are a young stud and not follicle challenged and have nothing on the brim of the cover, "hate hats, look stupid, old school". Ah, but when the hair goes and you get your first captaincy and get to wear the gold/silver filigree, opinions seem to change a bit. Just my observation. Me? I'm very old school, like the hat. And so do most all of the international big airlines where the guys up front receive a bit more respect than those in the US. Just an observation. It does seem a bit strange to be walking around inside of a terminal wearing a cover, but I do think it completes the uniform and lends to a air of professionalism.

x183
09-21-2007, 06:19 AM
It was very interesting to watch who wore and who didn't when the hats went optional at NWA. Now that they have been optional for a while, it is almost comical the way you can categorize those that do and don't wear hats. It has absolutely nothing to do with professionalism. It is usually broken down by ego/power perception, hair volume, outside air temperature (very closely associated with OAT), commuter (or not), equipment flown and dare I say it...geekiness. Ego and geekiness are by far the most prevalent followed closely by hair volume. You don't have to have a PHD in behavioral science to see the corolation either. Just a casual observation. Cheers...

Bravo! You nailed it.

jmackin
09-21-2007, 06:45 AM
Seems pretty simple. When you are a young stud and not follicle challenged and have nothing on the brim of the cover, "hate hats, look stupid, old school". Ah, but when the hair goes and you get your first captaincy and get to wear the gold/silver filigree, opinions seem to change a bit. Just my observation. Me? I'm very old school, like the hat. And so do most all of the international big airlines where the guys up front receive a bit more respect than those in the US. Just an observation. It does seem a bit strange to be walking around inside of a terminal wearing a cover, but I do think it completes the uniform and lends to a air of professionalism.

In Europe most of the major airlines are optional. Save for BA, LH, and to my knowledge KL; all other airlines are optional. But here's my question; why do young kids feel the need to ditch the hat? Let me tell you unless your in Japan most bus drivers don't wear hats, and attendents? After completing my medical and being accepted for training overseas (JAA Conversion) I feel the hat is the least of my worries. It's upsetting to see the hat be viewed as why our professionalism is on the down. Yes at SWA the hat is optional but does it mean that the airline is more professional from it? Just means they are better paid which is not why I went into this industry.

The best airlines in the world have learned that a hat is more then a style, its a symbol.

I just don't get why airlines feel the need to rid themsleves of it. First the hat is optional then taken away; then the blazer, then the epulettes; then finally our professional outlook.

Ottopilot
09-21-2007, 06:45 AM
CAL requires the full uniform (hat/blazer) for the 6 months from October 15 to April 15. The hat is optional the rest of the year (if you wear the blazer, you wear the hat), unless you fly international. Europe, Asia, etc. require the full uniform all year.

I don't like when things are optional or when there are too many uniform choices (leather or classic blazer). This defeats the definition of "uniform" where there is uniformity of what people wear. If every pilot in your company looks different, they don't look uniform.

Pilots started wearing uniforms when the passenger airlines started growing back in the '30's. Airlines wanted to compete with oceanlines, thus the "naval" rankings of Captain and First Officer and the uniforms.

I don't like the hat, but I'm old school and think it looks best with the whole uniform. I really don't like it in the summer with the blazer in 90 degree weather! I fly international, so I get to wear it more often. I don't think a sweaty head is professional.

This is the 21st Century. We pilots need a new uniform. Why a tie? What does a piece of cloth hanging from your neck do for you? Nothing! It is an old, old fashion article that needs to go. The whole suit and tie thing is old fashion. What would a modern, professional pilot's uniform look like?

Kingjay
09-21-2007, 06:49 AM
AA73 I have to agree with your observation about hair and hats. It allways seemed to me that people who wore hats alot when younger seemed to have thinner hair as they got older. Surely there is no science backing my observation, but I like my hair so no hat.

When I was at Eagle I wore the hat every trip until the day they made it optional then never wore it again. Now at spirit, I never even got one.

MikeB525
09-21-2007, 07:07 AM
This must be said: the airline hats are MALE hats. They look rediculous on FEMALE pilots!! In the military (where they're called "service caps") they have different styles for men and women.

I'm not airline or military, but I am lifelong Civil Air Patrol. I don't wear the airline-style service cap, just a BDU cap with BDUs and a flight (garrison) cap with the Blues and flight suit. I've tried on the service cap a couple times and it's incredibly uncomfortable! Feels like you have a leather belt strangling your head!

And I think I just crossed CAL off my list. I hate suits in general, and theres no way I'm wearing one in July just because I'm flying EWR-MEX.

Kingjay
09-21-2007, 07:21 AM
AA used to have a female style hat. I have seen it a couple of times, though I think it was discontinued years ago

skidmark
09-21-2007, 07:24 AM
Hats are not cool.

Rhino Driver
09-21-2007, 07:28 AM
CAL requires the full uniform (hat/blazer) for the 6 months from October 15 to April 15. The hat is optional the rest of the year (if you wear the blazer, you wear the hat), unless you fly international. Europe, Asia, etc. require the full uniform all year.

I don't like when things are optional or when there are too many uniform choices (leather or classic blazer). This defeats the definition of "uniform" where there is uniformity of what people wear. If every pilot in your company looks different, they don't look uniform.

Pilots started wearing uniforms when the passenger airlines started growing back in the '30's. Airlines wanted to compete with oceanlines, thus the "naval" rankings of Captain and First Officer and the uniforms.

I don't like the hat, but I'm old school and think it looks best with the whole uniform. I really don't like it in the summer with the blazer in 90 degree weather! I fly international, so I get to wear it more often. I don't think a sweaty head is professional.

This is the 21st Century. We pilots need a new uniform. Why a tie? What does a piece of cloth hanging from your neck do for you? Nothing! It is an old, old fashion article that needs to go. The whole suit and tie thing is old fashion. What would a modern, professional pilot's uniform look like?

I think you had it right on until the last paragraph. The idea is professionalism and uniformity. A tie is professional. A suit is professional. We are professionals. If the company policy and uniform requires a hat, the PROFESSIONAL thing to do is wear the hat. What statement is being made by not wearing it? I don't like this part of the UNIFORM, therefore I'm not going to wear it...Hat, tie, jacket, etc. What happens when the new FO or seasoned CA doesn't like a particular procedure? I don't like this procedure (company policy), therefore I'm not going to do it that way. Can you see where I'm going with this? :eek: In the end, mass chaos because YOU decided not to wear the hat! (SARCASM)

Skyone
09-21-2007, 07:32 AM
Hats are not cool.

Yep, you're right. And that's what being a professional airline pilot is all about-being cool.:rolleyes:

Ottopilot
09-21-2007, 09:00 AM
This must be said: the airline hats are MALE hats. They look rediculous on FEMALE pilots!! In the military (where they're called "service caps") they have different styles for men and women.


And I think I just crossed CAL off my list. I hate suits in general, and theres no way I'm wearing one in July just because I'm flying EWR-MEX.


A cute blond female pilot in the "male" uniform looks good. Kinda like a stripper costume. :D

CAL does not require hats to North America (Mexico and Canada), Central America or Carribean in the summer. These fall under "domestic" for CAL. Europe, Asia, and South America require hats. Which means I wear it after leaving the plane at my destination to the crew bus and then from the bus to the hotel lobby. Not much hat time really.

Slice
09-21-2007, 09:15 AM
I for one like the hat. It completes the uniform.

Looks good on you, Snoop.;)

HercDriver130
09-21-2007, 09:23 AM
Wore it only when I felt the need. Heck personally i would be fine if they would let us wear them blue nasa looking flight suits....nomex of course....

Kind of off topic...but when I first started flying 121 it felt really weird to not have flight gloves on after nearly 8 years of wearing them for every take off and landing and all tactical events.... kinda stupid I know... but I always wondered what a CA would say if I whipped out a set of nomex flight gloves for the flight...LOL... he'd prolly give me such a ration of crap that I would never do it again. LOL

av8r4aa
09-21-2007, 09:33 AM
Try standing near the gate agents podium without your
hat and you get bombarded with pax and reservation questions.

Plop on the hat and everybody sees that you are the pilot and
leaves the cabin questions for someone else.

Try it for yourself, you might see and feel the change.

aa73
09-21-2007, 10:21 AM
If the company policy and uniform requires a hat, the PROFESSIONAL thing to do is wear the hat. What statement is being made by not wearing it? I don't like this part of the UNIFORM, therefore I'm not going to wear it...Hat, tie, jacket, etc. What happens when the new FO or seasoned CA doesn't like a particular procedure? I don't like this procedure (company policy), therefore I'm not going to do it that way. Can you see where I'm going with this? :eek: In the end, mass chaos because YOU decided not to wear the hat! (SARCASM)

It's really very simple. The company requires it, but does not police it. Same thing as the rolling stop at a stop sign.... you are supposed to stop, but if there ain't a cop around and the intersection is clear, who the hell comes to a full stop?

Since the company doesn't police the hat rule, and I don't like wearing it because I don't want to go bald prematurely, I don't wear it. If I get caught, I BS my way out of it like I do out of a traffic ticket.

I don't think the general public gives a rat's ass about whether pilots wear the hat or not. If you feel it makes you look more professional, then wear it. This type of conversation always seems to center around what pilots THINK they look like with/without the hat. It is never about what the general public REALLY THINKS about it - which is, they don't care. I know, I've asked around. Most folks have told me that the hat looked cool back in the day, but today they don't think we're less professional without it.

Like I said, the issue seems to be about what one man's opinion is about, that's it.

The company doesn't own me, and there will always be things NON SAFETY RELATED in our ops that we can stretch a little. To me, the hat falls under that scope. And before you nail me for "unprofessional look", I wear the uniform very well groomed: ironed crisp athletic-fit shirts, shined wings, non pleated pants, and shiny Justin boots. The hat would ruin that nice look.

As far as pax questions at the gate, I feel I got MORE questions wearing the hat because people always assumed that "the pilot always knows the answers to everything!"

And finally, like someone mentioned above, most airlines worldwide are optional. I saw a BA crew in JFK last month where only one of the F/Os was wearing it. A KLM crew that didn't even carry them. And yet, they STILL seem to garner more respect than us US pilots.... must be a cultural thing.

73

UnlimitedAkro
09-21-2007, 10:22 AM
Kind of off topic...but when I first started flying 121 it felt really weird to not have flight gloves on after nearly 8 years of wearing them for every take off and landing and all tactical events.... kinda stupid I know... but I always wondered what a CA would say if I whipped out a set of nomex flight gloves for the flight...LOL... he'd prolly give me such a ration of crap that I would never do it again. LOL

you dont need gloves to push buttons!! :)

gradywhite
09-21-2007, 10:24 AM
how we change our attitudes from that of interview day!!!!;)

aa73
09-21-2007, 10:28 AM
how we change our attitudes from that of interview day!!!!;)

you got that right, sonny!

jmackin
09-21-2007, 10:50 AM
Since the company doesn't police the hat rule, and I don't like wearing it because I don't want to go bald prematurely, I don't wear it. If I get caught, I BS my way out of it like I do out of a traffic ticket.

Ok, I do and I still have the lowest insurance in the family because of it.

I don't think the general public gives a rat's ass about whether pilots wear the hat or not. If you feel it makes you look more professional, then wear it. This type of conversation always seems to center around what pilots THINK they look like with/without the hat. It is never about what the general public REALLY THINKS about it - which is, they don't care. I know, I've asked around. Most folks have told me that the hat looked cool back in the day, but today they don't think we're less professional without it.

The general public really don't give a monkey's butt about anything. Just safety, what time they'll arrive, and what's the weather. Anything else the pilot says will be complained and or used against. I once was a pax on a plane and the pilot hicupped on the L/S. Everyone was up in arms thinking he was drinking.


The company doesn't own me, and there will always be things NON SAFETY RELATED in our ops that we can stretch a little. To me, the hat falls under that scope. And before you nail me for "unprofessional look", I wear the uniform very well groomed: ironed crisp athletic-fit shirts, shined wings, non pleated pants, and shiny Justin boots. The hat would ruin that nice look.

But they pay you to look good and respect procedures.

As far as pax questions at the gate, I feel I got MORE questions wearing the hat because people always assumed that "the pilot always knows the answers to everything!"

Well you should, unless you haven't flown there before or read up on it, you should know more then most. Minus thoes HR questions like tickets; but even that some Capt I know know.

And finally, like someone mentioned above, most airlines worldwide are optional. I saw a BA crew in JFK last month where only one of the F/Os was wearing it. A KLM crew that didn't even carry them. And yet, they STILL seem to garner more respect than us US pilots.... must be a cultural thing.

Not really no. Most of thoes guys are ex-mil ex-LCC guys who want a paycheck and out after all the money wasted on line training, SSTR, and of course flight school. In the EU most aren't pilots, only bantha fodder.

Slice
09-21-2007, 11:07 AM
he'd prolly give me such a ration of crap that I would never do it again. LOL

Probably. :D Just like the crap I gave to an FO when he strapped on a knee board one day.:rolleyes:

Bloodhound
09-21-2007, 11:24 AM
Kind of off topic...but when I first started flying 121 it felt really weird to not have flight gloves on after nearly 8 years of wearing them for every take off and landing and all tactical events.... kinda stupid I know... but I always wondered what a CA would say if I whipped out a set of nomex flight gloves for the flight...LOL... he'd prolly give me such a ration of crap that I would never do it again. LOL

There's a CA at XJT that wears Nomex flight gloves for t/o and landings. He was never in the military, either.

Has anyone noticed that most local police departments don't wear hat anymore? I don't think they look any less professional or authoritative without the hats. The point is that most of the public don't notice or don't care.

Box Office
09-21-2007, 12:33 PM
A cute blond female pilot in the "male" uniform looks good. Kinda like a stripper costume. :D



My husband agrees completely...the smile hasn't left his face since I got hired. Not to mention I've saved money by not needing any new VS.;)

aa73
09-21-2007, 01:04 PM
But they pay you to look good and respect procedures.


That is true, and I do both. As far as I'm concerned, the hat should only be worn for public relations, strikes, pickets, that sort of thing.

AAflyer
09-21-2007, 01:11 PM
That is true, and I do both. As far as I'm concerned, the hat should only be worn for public relations, strikes, pickets, that sort of thing.

You! Responding to a HAT thread.. Gutsy move Mav!

Cheers,

The other AA

Adolphus Coors
09-21-2007, 01:17 PM
It's really very simple. The company requires it, but does not police it. Same thing as the rolling stop at a stop sign.... you are supposed to stop, but if there ain't a cop around and the intersection is clear, who the hell comes to a full stop?

Since the company doesn't police the hat rule, and I don't like wearing it because I don't want to go bald prematurely, I don't wear it. If I get caught, I BS my way out of it like I do out of a traffic ticket.

I don't think the general public gives a rat's ass about whether pilots wear the hat or not. If you feel it makes you look more professional, then wear it. This type of conversation always seems to center around what pilots THINK they look like with/without the hat. It is never about what the general public REALLY THINKS about it - which is, they don't care. I know, I've asked around. Most folks have told me that the hat looked cool back in the day, but today they don't think we're less professional without it.

Like I said, the issue seems to be about what one man's opinion is about, that's it.

The company doesn't own me, and there will always be things NON SAFETY RELATED in our ops that we can stretch a little. To me, the hat falls under that scope. And before you nail me for "unprofessional look", I wear the uniform very well groomed: ironed crisp athletic-fit shirts, shined wings, non pleated pants, and shiny Justin boots. The hat would ruin that nice look.

As far as pax questions at the gate, I feel I got MORE questions wearing the hat because people always assumed that "the pilot always knows the answers to everything!"

And finally, like someone mentioned above, most airlines worldwide are optional. I saw a BA crew in JFK last month where only one of the F/Os was wearing it. A KLM crew that didn't even carry them. And yet, they STILL seem to garner more respect than us US pilots.... must be a cultural thing.

73

I'm not sure how you can dispute Rhino's statement based on perception when your very own point is made based on your own non scientific perception.

If it is company policy follow it. You should be mature enough to do what is asked of you and not make excuses when you choose to brake company policy. Personally I want to be part of a pilot group that looks uniform in the terminal. I think the "rag tag; wear what you please" groups look like white trash.

aa73
09-21-2007, 01:33 PM
I'm not sure how you can dispute Rhino's statement based on perception when your very own point is made based on your own non scientific perception.

If it is company policy follow it. You should be mature enough to do what is asked of you and not make excuses when you choose to brake company policy. Personally I want to be part of a pilot group that looks uniform in the terminal. I think the "rag tag; wear what you please" groups look like white trash.

Hey, Robocop, that happens to be your opinion. And I ain't making excuses, I come right out and admit I don't wear it if someone asks me. BFD. We got more important issues to worry about than a damn UFO-head policy. I refuse to let AA cause earlier than normal baldness.

And finally... you got a problem with trailer trash? Sheesh. :cool:

Off to go get sompin' ta eat out of mah fridge outside,
73

aa73
09-21-2007, 01:36 PM
You! Responding to a HAT thread.. Gutsy move Mav!

Cheers,

The other AA

Momentum, baby, momentum! The hat revolution is picking up steam...

Saludos

Adolphus Coors
09-21-2007, 03:23 PM
Hey, Robocop, that happens to be your opinion. And I ain't making excuses, I come right out and admit I don't wear it if someone asks me. BFD. We got more important issues to worry about than a damn UFO-head policy. I refuse to let AA cause earlier than normal baldness.

And finally... you got a problem with trailer trash? Sheesh. :cool:

Off to go get sompin' ta eat out of mah fridge outside,
73

First you BS your way out then you tell the truth?

WT is fine with me as long as they don't operate on me, represent me, or fly me.

"Robocop"................LOL that wasn't half bad

aa73
09-21-2007, 05:09 PM
First you BS your way out then you tell the truth?

WT is fine with me as long as they don't operate on me, represent me, or fly me.

"Robocop"................LOL that wasn't half bad

Well, yeah... I admit I don't wear it if someone asks me. When they ask why I don't wear it, I say because I don't want to go bald at an early age... so far it's worked pretty good.

Slice
09-21-2007, 05:36 PM
Well, yeah... I admit I don't wear it if someone asks me. When they ask why I don't wear it, I say because I don't want to go bald at an early age... so far it's worked pretty good.

It's a FOD hazard...;)

Phantom Flyer
09-21-2007, 06:25 PM
[What I noticed is that when people stop wearing hats too many of them overtime stop shining their shoes and even ironing their shirts and taking their pants and jackets to dry cleaning.

Is it connected to the profession going down the toilet? I think it is.
It is much easier to convince people that you are underplayed and overworked if you stay professional.


I agree with Lifeisgood !

I hated wearing hats but we were required to so and since the company was signing my pay check, I wore a hat every day.

Interestingly, several years ago, a survey was done of over 2,000 business travelers by an independent research company. The purpose was to judge the most professional looking airline pilots. Guess which pilot group was judged "the most professional looking and acting in the industry". Delta by almost a 2:1 margin. At that time, they always wore jackets and hats and even though I did not work for them, they looked pretty sharp. Were they better pilots....I doubt it... but the perception in the traveling public's eye was "yes".

I think that once you change to a more casual dress code, you loose some of your professionalism. Just look at "casual Friday's" in the business workplace. What started as a good idea has become, wear jeans, ragged running shoes and even tee shirts on Friday because "it's cool". What kind of statement does that make to a visitor to your company when half of the employees are dressed like they were going to work in the yard on Saturday.

Just my two cents, which isn't worth much these days. Incidently, we have a much more stringent dress code on the golf course that some employers; however, I do NOT wear a hat !!

FORE !!

an ol' Fox Four Driver[/quote]

A6danimal
09-21-2007, 07:12 PM
Ah, but they WERE better pilots, too! That's the point!

jedinein
09-21-2007, 08:09 PM
But what will your young 20-something wear when she's riding you? And if you don't wear a tie, how is she going to rein you in?

AZFlyer
09-21-2007, 09:31 PM
I have a question somewhat related here....

How about hair on the collar? Obviously men are to have hair neat and appropriately trimmed so that it will not rest on the shirt collar.

But what about women? To me, it looks so tacky to see a females long hair comepletly smothering the collar....and to top it off, I think it looks even worse when you add a cap to the equation.

On the otherhand, I think female police officers and military personnel look *very* professional with their hair pulled back and up off the collar.

Maybe its just a pet peeve of mine, but it really irks me to see a female pilots hair on their uniform collar.

Though I do wonder, do any airlines mandate that their female pilots keep their hair tied back and up while in uni?

Zapata
09-21-2007, 11:29 PM
I have a question somewhat related here....

How about hair on the collar? Obviously men are to have hair neat and appropriately trimmed so that it will not rest on the shirt collar.

But what about women? To me, it looks so tacky to see a females long hair comepletly smothering the collar....and to top it off, I think it looks even worse when you add a cap to the equation.

On the otherhand, I think female police officers and military personnel look *very* professional with their hair pulled back and up off the collar.

Maybe its just a pet peeve of mine, but it really irks me to see a female pilots hair on their uniform collar.

Though I do wonder, do any airlines mandate that their female pilots keep their hair tied back and up while in uni?

The airlines are not the military. There is nothing unprofessional about men with a little hair that is covering the collar. I have seen it and as long as it is kept fairly neatly then it is okay. I have seen men with hair off the collar that looks worse than those with neatly stlyed/cut hair that hangs over the collar.

captjns
09-22-2007, 12:55 AM
The pilots who loave their hats are those members with small members... if you know what I mean?:D There was this dumba$$ who worked at an airline I flew for that would cruise the malls in full regalia, yes including the helmet, during layovers.

ExperimentalAB
09-22-2007, 05:55 AM
The general public really don't give a monkey's butt about anything. Just safety, what time they'll arrive, and what's the weather. Anything else the pilot says will be complained and or used against. I once was a pax on a plane and the pilot hicupped on the L/S. Everyone was up in arms thinking he was drinking.

Nope - they'd be more than happy to risk their lives a little bit more to save a whole $5 on a round-trip JFKSFO...:rolleyes:

Now back to the hats! I Love them - I ditched the POS "superior" in favor of the Bancroft, which is not only super-comfortable but better looking as well. I'll admit, I don't take my hat on every trip, but it certainly adds to the Professionalism of the Airline-Pilot persona...but the most important reason why I like it?? The chicks DIG the hat LoL. Next time you doubt bringing your Hat with you, just imagine your girlfriend, wife, or :eek: flight attendant posing for you in it in the buff!

ExperimentalAB
09-22-2007, 05:56 AM
The pilots who loave their hats are those members with small members... if you know what I mean?:D There was this dumba$$ who worked at an airline I flew for that would cruise the malls in full regalia, yes including the helmet, during layovers.

::Eek:: Don't quite know what to say about that!

It's a FOD hazard...

That's no joke! On my very first Pre-flight for my first Airline Job, my hat (and damn-near my jacket, too!) was blown off and sent 100 yards down the Apron thanks to a Mesa crew's overkill single-engine turnout from the gate...When I finally tracked down my hat (it was super-early as well - no sun yet!), it had been beaten-up real good...::sigh::

ExAF
09-22-2007, 07:25 AM
The airlines are not the military. There is nothing unprofessional about men with a little hair that is covering the collar. I have seen it and as long as it is kept fairly neatly then it is okay. I have seen men with hair off the collar that looks worse than those with neatly stlyed/cut hair that hangs over the collar.Yeah...those neatly trimmed mullets are da bomb! All business in the front and a party behind!:D

AZFlyer
09-22-2007, 07:33 AM
The airlines are not the military. There is nothing unprofessional about men with a little hair that is covering the collar. I have seen it and as long as it is kept fairly neatly then it is okay. I have seen men with hair off the collar that looks worse than those with neatly stlyed/cut hair that hangs over the collar.

Thats fine. If you dont look like a ragamuffin and your hair is touching the collar. Alright.

My post was about *womens* hair, though. Not men's. I havent seen a male airline pilot yet with 12" of hair below the collar. Maybe you have?

kalyx522
09-22-2007, 10:47 AM
But what about women? To me, it looks so tacky to see a females long hair comepletly smothering the collar....and to top it off, I think it looks even worse when you add a cap to the equation.

On the otherhand, I think female police officers and military personnel look *very* professional with their hair pulled back and up off the collar.

Maybe its just a pet peeve of mine, but it really irks me to see a female pilots hair on their uniform collar.


Airline pilots can give a rat's a$$ about how their female counterparts wear their hair. Flight attendants are a different story, they will rat each other out to their supervisor about how Stephanie's hair isn't tied up today or Jessica is wearing non-Cintas brand pants, but pilots don't concern each other with such trivial matters.

Spartan07
09-22-2007, 10:49 AM
I'm sorry, the hat issue seems to me to have valid points on both sides. However, the hair on the collar issue is kind of a dumb debate. It's pretty cut and dry. Hair on the collar is unprofessional, period. And that goes for either sex... Then again, just my opinion :)

kalyx522
09-22-2007, 11:33 AM
I'm sorry, the hat issue seems to me to have valid points on both sides. However, the hair on the collar issue is kind of a dumb debate. It's pretty cut and dry. Hair on the collar is unprofessional, period. And that goes for either sex... Then again, just my opinion :)

Well, to be specific, the Express carriers (dunno about mainline) require hair to be "restrained" if below the shoulders. The company is saying it's OK for women to have hair below the collar as long as it's above the shoulders. Women and men have a few different "rules" when it comes to professional dressing etiquette.. some are acceptable only for women (hair longer than 2 inches or whatever, grey suits, etc.) and some are acceptable only for men (flat shoes, being able to wear a mustache, etc.) well now that I think about it, flat shoes are required for women pilots too, but that's about the only job where female professionals can get away with wearing flat shoes in the business atmosphere.

Jakob
09-22-2007, 11:40 AM
Well, to be specific, the Express carriers (dunno about mainline) require hair to be "restrained" if below the shoulders. The company is saying it's OK for women to have hair below the collar as long as it's above the shoulders. Women and men have a few different "rules" when it comes to professional dressing etiquette.. some are acceptable only for women (hair longer than 2 inches or whatever, grey suits, etc.) and some are acceptable only for men (flat shoes, being able to wear a mustache, etc.) well now that I think about it, flat shoes are required for women pilots too, but that's about the only job where female professionals can get away with wearing flat shoes in the business atmosphere.

Yeah! The thought of a women wearing a mustache is indeed horrible...:eek:

And to the hair requirements: I know Lufthansa has the same requirements you listed above.

UnlimitedAkro
09-22-2007, 11:41 AM
I looked it up.

Women are not allowed to have mustaches.

AZFlyer
09-22-2007, 12:12 PM
Airline pilots can give a rat's a$$ about how their female counterparts wear their hair.

You're missing my point.

Uniforms and appearance arent so you and your colleagues can sit in the cockpit and look at each other and say, 'damn, we look good'.

Its about how YOU are perceived by your customers (passengers) and to an extent, peers from other companies.

So, to ME, women with loose hair hanging all over the place, not restrained looks unprofessional. I could care less what my coworkers look like so long as they represent the company well in appearance and demeanor.

makoshark72
09-22-2007, 01:29 PM
Management pilot walks up to a hatless line pilot.

"Son, where's your hat??"
"Its in my suitcase."
"Why arent you wearing it?"
"It doesnt fit my head."
"What size is it?"
"Its a 7."
"So what size do you wear?"
"11."
"So why buy a size 7."
"Cuz it fits in my suitcase!!!"

Nuff said!!!!:cool:

newKnow
09-22-2007, 03:45 PM
Here's a better one....


Management: "HEY YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE TO WEAR YOUR HAT'S!!!!! Oh, and we want you to take a 40% pay cut."

Pilots: "Hey we don't have to wear our hats!!!"


I wear mine.

makoshark72
09-22-2007, 05:45 PM
I wear mine.

Not me..but at least I have more room in my suitcase!!;)

ExperimentalAB
09-22-2007, 06:42 PM
I looked it up.

Women are not allowed to have mustaches.

::Phew::, now that's a relief!

makoshark72
09-22-2007, 06:47 PM
I looked it up.

Women are not allowed to have mustaches.

I'd SWEAR there are a few at NWA that have 'em!!! :eek:

SharkyBN584
09-22-2007, 08:31 PM
Ya know, growin' up I was always told it was rude to wear your hat inside.

SaltyDog
09-22-2007, 08:34 PM
Hats are very beneficial at certain times and so they should be kept, but get rid of the eggs. When I was a plummin' on the 8, I learned a trick that was to protect the head on preflights in the winter after a deicing strike and stuff dripping all over. Wear the captains overcoat and the F/O's hat. Worked like a charm, cause my hat stayed clean in the suitcase <g>
The way to get an F/O to wear a hat? Make 'em a Capt. That works for about a week. Then it gets ditched in some gateway to collect dust.

Zapata
09-22-2007, 09:51 PM
I'm sorry, the hat issue seems to me to have valid points on both sides. However, the hair on the collar issue is kind of a dumb debate. It's pretty cut and dry. Hair on the collar is unprofessional, period. And that goes for either sex... Then again, just my opinion :)

What about a big gut hanging over the belt line? Nobody ever says anything about that. I never meant that mullets or rock star cuts are acceptable. I have seen the occasional major airline pilot with hair on or slightly over the collar and I don't think there is anything unprofessional about it as long as it is neat and well kept. Point being, within certain parameters, it isn't about specifics. It is about an overall well groomed appearance.

captjns
09-23-2007, 12:16 AM
It is about an overall well groomed appearance.

And lets not forget about hygiene either. Hey about the grooming thing??? hair above the collar, nose hairs not visible to the naked eye??? remember... as Nando says "Its better to look good than fly good... and you look marvelous.":D

TonyWilliams
09-23-2007, 01:11 AM
In the past years, American Eagle put everybody through a 2 hour "hat class".

The hat portrays authority to the general public (according to this class).

I wear my hat because it makes a great umbrella ( I use the plastic cover over it). I do leave enough space in my bag for it, also.

XJPILOT1
09-23-2007, 05:16 AM
I wear my hat. It completes the uniform, covers up the bad hair cut and hides the 'headset hair'. It also doubles as a stuff holder on the over night.

ExperimentalAB
09-23-2007, 07:26 AM
I wear my hat. It completes the uniform, covers up the bad hair cut and hides the 'headset hair'. It also doubles as a stuff holder on the over night.

All very noble reasons to keep wearing the hat LoL. And it's the only reason I don't forget my wallet on every overnight ;-P

Paok
09-23-2007, 07:52 AM
A cute blond female pilot in the "male" uniform looks good. Kinda like a stripper costume. :D

Im a blonde female pilot, in basically a male uniform, minus that hat which the only difference is that it is a little taller....I think I look like a fool.... all the flight attendants in their cute red wrap dresses and me in my fupa pants, and tie.... i GUESS my shirts and coat are a little more tappered then the mens......

As for the hats... as a girl with reallllly long hair, and at an airline that is VERY strict on hats, once I put it on i have to wear it all day bc my hair is SO horrible after like 5 minutes of wearing it...

As for females having to wear their hair up, jesus what do you want us to be men? If the mens uniform is not enough you want me to pull my hair back in a bun. I honostly feel like so masculine around all the flight attendents and embarrassed.... I know that sounds stupid but I do. My dad told me when I got hired I better not go cutting my hair off and becomming one of "those butch female pilots"..... so I guess you all prefer the butch look..... Ill make sure to pull my blonde hair back in a bun and wear no makeup!

XJPILOT1
09-23-2007, 08:20 AM
It's a mans Job Sorry;) DingDong..get me a Coke willya sweetheart?

flaps 9
09-23-2007, 08:30 AM
If the mens uniform is not enough you want me to pull my hair back in a bun. I honostly feel like so masculine around all the flight attendents and embarrassed.... I know that sounds stupid but I do. My dad told me when I got hired I better not go cutting my hair off and becomming one of "those butch female pilots"..... so I guess you all prefer the butch look..... Ill make sure to pull my blonde hair back in a bun and wear no makeup!

If were up to US you would dress like a "Laker girl" :D

It's management that wants you to look like a guy :eek:

Paok
09-23-2007, 08:40 AM
It's a mans Job Sorry;) DingDong..get me a Coke willya sweetheart?

You only wish you could get a chance to fly with me :)

The Chow
09-23-2007, 09:41 AM
You only wish you could get a chance to fly with me :)


Hat or no hat you haven't been flying much anyway. :eek: JK!!!!!!

XJPILOT1
09-23-2007, 11:40 AM
You only wish you could get a chance to fly with me :)

Well you do sound spunky :D.

Paok
09-23-2007, 12:42 PM
Hat or no hat you haven't been flying much anyway. :eek: JK!!!!!!

HAHA hey I Got like 13 hours this month :)

L1a4u4r0a
09-23-2007, 12:58 PM
The hats look very outdated. Remember when people used to dress up to be a passenger too? I think the airlines need to realize times have changed - I mean that in terms of fashion AND that not all pilots are men. Paok I feel your pain. the hats look REDICULOUS on females! They are "required" at my airline but I haven't taken it out of the closet in 3 months. I don't think the hats make anyone look more or less professional, I think they should at least be optional.

Spartan07
09-23-2007, 01:03 PM
What about a big gut hanging over the belt line? Nobody ever says anything about that. I never meant that mullets or rock star cuts are acceptable. I have seen the occasional major airline pilot with hair on or slightly over the collar and I don't think there is anything unprofessional about it as long as it is neat and well kept. Point being, within certain parameters, it isn't about specifics. It is about an overall well groomed appearance.

I agree. A general well groomed appearance is the objective. That is the whole point of the dress code. And yeah, I definitely think that there should be some kind of incentive to stay in some kind of shape. I don't think that airline pilots should be held to military fitness standards but at a certain point it gets out of hand.

Paok
09-23-2007, 01:16 PM
The hats look very outdated. Remember when people used to dress up to be a passenger too? I think the airlines need to realize times have changed - I mean that in terms of fashion AND that not all pilots are men. Paok I feel your pain. the hats look REDICULOUS on females! They are "required" at my airline but I haven't taken it out of the closet in 3 months. I don't think the hats make anyone look more or less professional, I think they should at least be optional.

They are required at our airline too, and they are VERY strict on it

15789
09-23-2007, 02:17 PM
The hats look very outdated. Remember when people used to dress up to be a passenger too? I think the airlines need to realize times have changed - I mean that in terms of fashion AND that not all pilots are men. Paok I feel your pain. the hats look REDICULOUS on females! They are "required" at my airline but I haven't taken it out of the closet in 3 months. I don't think the hats make anyone look more or less professional, I think they should at least be optional.


Then you need to see Virgin America's uniform! No Tie, Black or super Dark Navy Blue pants and shirt(worn top 2 buttons open) and little silver pins on the collar to denote position. While I dislike the good humor man goes military look as much as the next guy/gal, it does have it's advantage to identify you as a person of authority on the aircraft(important with pax ops, now more than ever) The pilot I met from V.A. looked like he walked right off of Sir Richard's private island, not looking at all like he belonged at the controls of an A320.

XJPILOT1
09-23-2007, 02:50 PM
Then you need to see Virgin America's uniform! No Tie, Black or super Dark Navy Blue pants and shirt(worn top 2 buttons open) and little silver pins on the collar to denote position. While I dislike the good humor man goes military look as much as the next guy/gal, it does have it's advantage to identify you as a person of authority on the aircraft(important with pax ops, now more than ever) The pilot I met from V.A. looked like he walked right off of Sir Richard's private island, not looking at all like he belonged at the controls of an A320.

Need you say more?:cool:

MikeB525
09-23-2007, 04:19 PM
Poak,

How would you feel about a more military styled female uniform, with the option of an overblouse instead of tuck-in, and neck tabs instead of a tie?

BTW, I think hair buns are kinda sexy. :D

flyergurl
09-23-2007, 04:53 PM
I'll second the motion from Poak... NO HATS for women - it is unprofessional to have the hat hair look the rest of the day. That's why I always ask what the uniform is first... if there's a hat - I'm not there :D The uniform is "manly" enough without adding a hat and hair pulled up too. I know I'm in a traditionally man's field, but I don't have to look like one while I'm doing it. Just my .02

jsfBoat
09-23-2007, 06:13 PM
I once saw a NWA pilot wearing a baseball cap. Wish that the airlines would allow pilots to make the choice between wearing the traditional hat, and a baseball cap. Just like at some companies, the pilots have the choice between the blazer and the leather jacket. Leather jacket and a baseball cap for me!

Ottopilot
09-23-2007, 06:25 PM
CAL has a female hat and tie, but some wear them and some wear the male version.

Baseball caps are allowed in the cockpit.

mike734
09-23-2007, 06:54 PM
Im a blonde female pilot,

But what will your young 20-something wear when she's riding you? And if you don't wear a tie, how is she going to rein you in?
Sorry. I just couldn't help but put these two posts together. :D

On the subject of uniforms. I'm in favor of female pilots not wearing uniforms at all. But....you can leave the hat on.

sfblue
09-23-2007, 07:56 PM
Male pilots look much more sexier and handsome with hats on, seriously:p

No hat for female pilots. I like to wear my long hair:)

kalyx522
09-23-2007, 07:57 PM
I wear my hat. It completes the uniform, covers up the bad hair cut and hides the 'headset hair'.

well you have a point about covering up the 'headset hair'... but then you would get 'hat hair' you know, with the ring around your forehead and a dent all around your crown where the hat sat? I'm not sure which I would want less.

Paok
09-24-2007, 04:39 AM
But what will your young 20-something wear when she's riding you? And if you don't wear a tie, how is she going to rein you in?

whoooaaa...whats that supposed to be

bigfatdaddy
09-24-2007, 06:00 AM
CAL requires the full uniform (hat/blazer) for the 6 months from October 15 to April 15. The hat is optional the rest of the year (if you wear the blazer, you wear the hat), unless you fly international. Europe, Asia, etc. require the full uniform all year.

I don't like when things are optional or when there are too many uniform choices (leather or classic blazer). This defeats the definition of "uniform" where there is uniformity of what people wear. If every pilot in your company looks different, they don't look uniform.

Pilots started wearing uniforms when the passenger airlines started growing back in the '30's. Airlines wanted to compete with oceanlines, thus the "naval" rankings of Captain and First Officer and the uniforms.

I don't like the hat, but I'm old school and think it looks best with the whole uniform. I really don't like it in the summer with the blazer in 90 degree weather! I fly international, so I get to wear it more often. I don't think a sweaty head is professional.

This is the 21st Century. We pilots need a new uniform. Why a tie? What does a piece of cloth hanging from your neck do for you? Nothing! It is an old, old fashion article that needs to go. The whole suit and tie thing is old fashion. What would a modern, professional pilot's uniform look like?

Could not agree with you more...Spot on!

EMBFlyer
09-24-2007, 06:41 AM
CAL has a female hat and tie, but some wear them and some wear the male version.

You mean the "napkin" and the "Peter Pan" hat that "The Evil One" wore in the old safety video?

ewrbasedpilot
09-24-2007, 08:28 AM
It's amazing to me how "professional" some think we look without the hat. With the hat on, there's no where to put the sunglasses and look "cool" as some have stated. I always wear my hat..................and I get the respect that comes with it. It's also a sign of authority..........something many pilots here feel they've lost (and wonder why :confused:). Funny, but ball players, firemen, military personnel etc all wear their hats. I'd love to see some airman tell his commander he's not wearing his hat because it looks dorky and will give him "hat head". It's all about looking like an AIRLINE pilot. Remember that interview and anxiously awaiting that "you're hired" call? You'd wear a fricking bag over your head to get hired, and then when you're hired, it's time to start making your own uniform rules. Sorry.........if the company says wear it (and they pay the salary), then wear it. If you don't like it, then find another airline or career that doesn't require it. :rolleyes:

ewrbasedpilot
09-24-2007, 09:03 AM
And I think I just crossed CAL off my list. I hate suits in general, and theres no way I'm wearing one in July just because I'm flying EWR-MEX.


Wow........amazing how a small piece of a uniform is worth throwing away a lucrative career. I sincerely hope you DO cross CAL off your list. We don't need nor want pilots with narrow minded thinking. Maybe you'll luck out and never land that interview/airline job. Wouldn't that be poetic justice? Then you'd NEVER have to wear a hat or suit. :eek:

taylorjets
09-24-2007, 09:11 AM
Pilots may not like it, but the Public and fellow employees respect it. I for one wear the hat. For those of you that are afraid of wearing it because you don't want to be mistaken for a bus driver of curbside baggage help (I did not say it), I think you should realize something. We are far more educated and trained than either of the two. We make more compensation and get more respect because of it. Wear it proud because you can. O yeah, and stand up to the man CBA 2007...

XJPILOT1
09-24-2007, 09:15 AM
I once saw a NWA pilot wearing a baseball cap. Wish that the airlines would allow pilots to make the choice between wearing the traditional hat, and a baseball cap. Just like at some companies, the pilots have the choice between the blazer and the leather jacket. Leather jacket and a baseball cap for me!


Get a job with a night cargo outfit. "Ball Caps" have no business at the airlines!

mike734
09-24-2007, 09:34 AM
I'd love to see some airman tell his commander he's not wearing his hat

The conversation goes something like this:

CP: Where's your hat?
Me: In my overnight bag.
CP: Why is it in your bag?
Me: It's too small.
CP: Why don't you get a bigger hat?
Me: Then it won't fit in my overnight bag.

Box Office
09-24-2007, 10:21 AM
How would you feel about a more military styled female uniform, with the option of an overblouse instead of tuck-in, and neck tabs instead of a tie?



As a female pilot coming out of the military I think this is the best solution. Desgin a female uniform with the same elements as the men's uniform. That way it fits a female body in an attractive and professional way and does not make them look ridiculous or like a man. An overblouse option is a must especially for a big-busted women (which I unfortunately am not but can sympathize).

Sorry, a skirt or dress or something overly female would never be appropriate for a pilot to wear at work - your primary function is operating the flight controls. So yes, you will always feel less feminine than the flight attendents - big deal, get over it.

I also agree that, while in uniform, loose hair flying all over the place is unprofessional. It should be cut above the shoulders or pulled back out of your face. Anything else looks messy. You can have feminine, attractive, and professional hair and meet one of these two requirements - you do not have to get a butch haircut.
I do however get annoyed with hat hair and would prefer not to wear a hat, but on the spectrum of things to get upset about in your job, it is very minor.

What seems wierd to me is wearing the hat on the flight line -FOD?? and wearing it indoors. The military removes hats indoors as do average people in polite company. Wearing it indoors feels wrong.

MoonShot
09-24-2007, 04:41 PM
For me, it boils down to this: if the airline that is paying you requires you to wear the hat, do it! If not, then do/don't at your option.

If you work for an airline that requires the hat and you don't wear it, what other simple rules do you not abide by? Do you just pick and choose? I'm a realist and understand that its impossible to comply with 100% of all of the manuals 100% of the time, but a good faith effort goes a long way in my book. How hard is it to wear the hat?

Oh, and you guys that are balding aren't doing yourselves any favors by leaving the hat at home.

cbire880
09-24-2007, 05:30 PM
What seems wierd to me is wearing the hat on the flight line -FOD?? and wearing it indoors. The military removes hats indoors as do average people in polite company. Wearing it indoors feels wrong.

Gotta agree with this one. I can understand wearing it inside since we are rarely outside of a terminal, but the flight line FOD issue seems to be prominent. Its a big hat to get sucked into something.

Paok
09-24-2007, 05:44 PM
As a female pilot coming out of the military I think this is the best solution. Desgin a female uniform with the same elements as the men's uniform. That way it fits a female body in an attractive and professional way and does not make them look ridiculous or like a man. An overblouse option is a must especially for a big-busted women (which I unfortunately am not but can sympathize).

Sorry, a skirt or dress or something overly female would never be appropriate for a pilot to wear at work - your primary function is operating the flight controls. So yes, you will always feel less feminine than the flight attendents - big deal, get over it.

I also agree that, while in uniform, loose hair flying all over the place is unprofessional. It should be cut above the shoulders or pulled back out of your face. Anything else looks messy. You can have feminine, attractive, and professional hair and meet one of these two requirements - you do not have to get a butch haircut.
I do however get annoyed with hat hair and would prefer not to wear a hat, but on the spectrum of things to get upset about in your job, it is very minor.

What seems wierd to me is wearing the hat on the flight line -FOD?? and wearing it indoors. The military removes hats indoors as do average people in polite company. Wearing it indoors feels wrong.


My hair is never in my face it is always pulled back however it is DOWN, and it is long.... I dont think it looks unprofessional, and all the female captains I fly with wear their hair simliar. I do however HATE to see female pilots with a "messy bun" type of thing I wore to class in college and to the gym, THAT looks unprofessional.

kalyx522
09-24-2007, 06:57 PM
As a female pilot coming out of the military I think this is the best solution. Desgin a female uniform with the same elements as the men's uniform. That way it fits a female body in an attractive and professional way and does not make them look ridiculous or like a man. An overblouse option is a must especially for a big-busted women (which I unfortunately am not but can sympathize).

Sorry, a skirt or dress or something overly female would never be appropriate for a pilot to wear at work - your primary function is operating the flight controls. So yes, you will always feel less feminine than the flight attendents - big deal, get over it.


I guess we all have such different opinions. I always thought the female military uniform was BUTTA$$ ugly. I like my airline uniform just as it is. I buy the female sizes and they fit my form just fine. Honestly I feel like if even the female sizes arent fitting right, the person is likely either very skinny or simply fat. Being overweight makes any uniform or clothing look worse. If someone's bust is too big, they should buy a bigger size and have it altered (same goes for anyone else boy or girl, if their article of clothing doesn't fit their body quite right.) I've seen some women drowning in huge shirts, their sleeves coming past their elbows. Maybe they don't know that Van heusens come in lady sizes. I knew a girl who was really slim, even the lady Van Heusens were kinda baggy on her, so she simply had them taken in.

That neck tab thing is the fugliest thing ever, on the same level as the hats that lady officers wear in the navy. I always wondered why they make the guys uniforms look so good and all they could come up with for the women is that weird hat and tacky neck tab. I mean wtf is a neck tab. like a half-a$$ed tie gone horribly wrong. Ties can be annoying sometimes but I'd rather wear a tie 24/7 than wear a neck tab for one second. they should burn in fashion hell along with fanny packs and speedos.

As for FAs.. I've never felt any less feminine in my pants than the FAs in their dresses... I found women's pants that fit/drape really well, and plus the FAs are usually overweight and/or mom-like, so it's not hard to look more girly next to them! I don't envy their uniforms one bit. Their dresses are made of the same cheap polyester material as our pilot uniforms. Except that the pilot uniform looks much cooler than those dresses. I guess because to me, the pilot uniform states, "I can fly a plane." The FA uniform says, "I serve drinks." (yes I know there are there primarily for safety.. sorry for sounding so condescending.) I'm proud that I can fly a plane, and able to wear the uniform that states that fact. (although, everyone knows the "copilot" just sits there and watches "the pilot" fly the plane.)

oh was this thread about hats or something?

captjns
09-25-2007, 01:08 AM
Did anyone mention that the hat is also useful outside Grand Central Station? Bring your guitar, and play a song and make sure that hat is at your feet to collect all those donations by the patrons of the arts.
If you don't play the guitar you can learn to play the spoons.

jmackin
09-25-2007, 10:21 AM
Hey guys, here's a great idea; why don't all pilots both small airlines and large post their hat photos?