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Sir James
09-25-2007, 10:56 PM
I thought the large pay cut years ago was a "shared" sacrifice? What a crock http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070925/american_airlines_labor.html?.v=1


7576FO
09-26-2007, 04:13 AM
When I was in High School in 1978. I was working at a Tire store busting tires (removing and replacing tires). I went in to the Managers office. I asked for a raise. I had worked there 6 months. He said ok. I was making $1.90 an hour.
He raised my pay to $2.05 an hour. Which was above the minimum wage at the time.

Don't read much into my above statement.

This is Negotiations 101. Management is supposed to always say "No you cannot have raise."
Then the union responds with, "We need a raise or else"

At least that how it's supposed to go.

I can't think of any other time in history that employees took 23% pay cuts (to be fair-we have recouped some of that) and then 5 years later didn't get a pay raise after having saved the company from Bankruptcy.

aa73
09-26-2007, 04:46 AM
Screw 'em and their POS proposal! You'd think they would've learned by now to NOT negotiate directly with the pilots - that's what the union negotiating comittee is for.

Sequence protection.... whopp dee doo. What they are proposing is having to be in base for the footprint of the whole trip to be pay protected. Sucks!

73


7576FO
09-26-2007, 05:56 AM
Screw 'em and their POS proposal! You'd think they would've learned by now to NOT negotiate directly with the pilots - that's what the union negotiating comittee is for.

Sequence protection.... whopp dee doo. What they are proposing is having to be in base for the footprint of the whole trip to be pay protected. Sucks!

73


Roger that!

That proposed seq protection still doesn't cover mechanicals.
At least that's what I heard. I refuse to go look at Mgmt propaganda.

So I shouldn't say anything or comment since i'm going by what i heard.

7576

B757200ER
09-26-2007, 06:19 AM
Anyone suprised here?

Oldfreightdawg
09-26-2007, 06:49 AM
Anyone suprised here?

Negative. Same crap, different decade. AMR gets to sell the public on "look we make the pilots work only 82 hours a month", meanwhile they're on capital hill lobbying against a stike effort by APA.

ryane946
09-26-2007, 09:21 AM
Don't settle for anything less than a 30% raise (or whatever the paycut was you took in 2003). Same goes for United, Delta, Northwest, US Air, and Continental!

REMEMBER, a 20% paycut takes a 25% raise to recoup.
Example. Say you made $100/hr. You take a 20% pay cut. Now you make $80/hr. To get back up to $100/hr, you need to take a 25% pay raise to get back to $100/hr.

seaav8tor
09-26-2007, 09:41 AM
Don't settle for anything less than a 30% raise (or whatever the paycut was you took in 2003). Same goes for United, Delta, Northwest, US Air, and Continental!

REMEMBER, a 20% paycut takes a 25% raise to recoup.
Example. Say you made $100/hr. You take a 20% pay cut. Now you make $80/hr. To get back up to $100/hr, you need to take a 25% pay raise to get back to $100/hr.


Management does not figure it that way. Here is how they see it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7106559846794044495

7576FO
09-26-2007, 09:48 AM
Management does not figure it that way. Here is how they see it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7106559846794044495


That was awesome.
Good linc.

Futureman
09-26-2007, 02:02 PM
Don't settle for anything less than a 30% raise (or whatever the paycut was you took in 2003). Same goes for United, Delta, Northwest, US Air, and Continental!

REMEMBER, a 20% paycut takes a 25% raise to recoup.
Example. Say you made $100/hr. You take a 20% pay cut. Now you make $80/hr. To get back up to $100/hr, you need to take a 25% pay raise to get back to $100/hr.
Don't forget inflation:)

acl65pilot
09-26-2007, 03:16 PM
Why would any manager want to give us a pay raise. Christ they know that we all stuck with this over the last seven years or so. They are betting that we will put up with little or no raise now. They do not care that the six figure cuts that many took saved the company. It is now about making the share holders happy, and that means keeping ticket prices low and workers and bare bone wages.
Will it work? No. I do not think that any pilot group will agree to a pay cut or stagnation after all of the cuts. It is time to realize that this is not a battle that each local union needs to fight. It is something that all pilots regardless of company need to take a stand on. The big question is if personal greed will win again?

REAL Pilot
09-26-2007, 04:20 PM
It is time to realize that this is not a battle that each local union needs to fight. It is something that all pilots regardless of company need to take a stand on. The big question is if personal greed will win again?

Can I get an amen with that. Labor has acted like a pack of starving dogs fighting for scraps. It is past time to draw the line and hold it. If not, then I have a free volume of Flying the Line to donate to the history section of the local library.

Sometimes you have to fight the fight to be taken seriously or have "we" been bullied all our lifes and don't know how to take a stand. In our risk averse society and in our negotiated "live to fight another day', we have given away our profession. Yes there would be casualties but that is the cost of doing business.

Carpe Diem

acl65pilot
09-26-2007, 06:00 PM
I find it very ironic that a junior CA at any major is barley making 100K a year. That is sad.

Illini
09-26-2007, 06:15 PM
If they increase the flying hours for the pilots then they become more productive. That means they need less pilots and is a reduction in cost to them. They are flipping their advantages and trying to make it look better for the pilots at AA. Such [email protected]

REAL Pilot
09-26-2007, 06:25 PM
What is sad is by accepting this, we become somewhat responsible for it. Could we not turn a wheel on any given day? I know, wildcat strikes etc are illegal but labor has to employ the power it has. But all the negotiated capitulations pass membership ratification, we amend our CBA lower, we refuse to operate as a national union and we give productivity improvements to compete with the very operators that desire to one day get hired by a real airline.

aa73
09-26-2007, 07:04 PM
If they increase the flying hours for the pilots then they become more productive. That means they need less pilots and is a reduction in cost to them. They are flipping their advantages and trying to make it look better for the pilots at AA. Such [email protected]

if they want us to fly more hours (A.K.A. a CONCESSION!!!!) they'd better be ready to pony up some serious coin for it... at least 30%. and even then I'll probably still vote no. screw that increase in monthly max. we've been at 78 with pick up to 83 for I don't know how long now, and they still manage to schedule us unproductively. how will a higher monthly max help them out when they still consistently dick up the pairings??? Case in point: a recent 757 pairing out of STL:

STL-DFW: deadhead
DFW-PHX: deadhead
PHX-DFW work it then layover. (day 1 of a 3 day trip.) YGTBSM wow that's productive!

Illini
09-26-2007, 07:59 PM
if they want us to fly more hours (A.K.A. a CONCESSION!!!!) they'd better be ready to pony up some serious coin for it... at least 30%. and even then I'll probably still vote no. screw that increase in monthly max. we've been at 78 with pick up to 83 for I don't know how long now, and they still manage to schedule us unproductively. how will a higher monthly max help them out when they still consistently dick up the pairings??? Case in point: a recent 757 pairing out of STL:

STL-DFW: deadhead
DFW-PHX: deadhead
PHX-DFW work it then layover. (day 1 of a 3 day trip.) YGTBSM wow that's productive!

Oh, I agree with you completely. They try and make it seem as if its almost a favor but in reality they are making it better on themselves. Furthermore, with the trips you are talking about you are going to spend more time on the road and away from home. Ridiculous...

Luv2Chil
09-26-2007, 08:46 PM
Do these management types think that pilots are that stupid or that desparate? Their arrogance will be their down fall. Unbelieveable!