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View Full Version : Question for NWA Pilots


Nugget#69
10-24-2007, 06:50 PM
This is not meant to be flame. I am generally curious why the pilots didn't support the mechanics at NWA, when they were being assaulted by the company. Now that all the water is under the bridge, it seems like the pilots are the only ones who could have prevented the carnage.


newKnow
10-24-2007, 08:32 PM
Because we suck. We also should have supported US Air and United when they lost their pensions. We all should have walked off like they do in France. (There is your flame) But, we were more concerned with if we had to wear our hats and how cool or stupid the leather jackets looked.

iflysideways
10-25-2007, 06:29 AM
The mechanic union specifically told ALPA and the flight attendant unions NOT to sympathy strike.

The mechanics thought they could strike and bring the company to it's knees all by themselves. Part of the reason is that during that time, there was a lot of internal strife within the mechanic union. I do not remember which union is/was which, but the union that was in control during most of the contract negotiations was viewed as weak and booted out. The new union came in with big expectations and they tried flexing their muscles and went on strike without the assistance of the other unions. They were wrong and the company was able to replace all of the mechanics and keep the airline running.

I am not a mechanic, but I am a union member. I learned a big lesson. Don't believe everything your company tells you. But also don't believe all of the Kool-aide your union serves either.


John Pennekamp
10-25-2007, 07:03 AM
The mechanic union specifically told ALPA and the flight attendant unions NOT to sympathy strike.

The mechanics thought they could strike and bring the company to it's knees all by themselves. Part of the reason is that during that time, there was a lot of internal strife within the mechanic union. I do not remember which union is/was which, but the union that was in control during most of the contract negotiations was viewed as weak and booted out. The new union came in with big expectations and they tried flexing their muscles and went on strike without the assistance of the other unions. They were wrong and the company was able to replace all of the mechanics and keep the airline running.

I am not a mechanic, but I am a union member. I learned a big lesson. Don't believe everything your company tells you. But also don't believe all of the Kool-aide your union serves either.

Having lived in DTW at the time, I can tell you that from what I've heard, your tale is only partially correct.

What I heard is that AMFA came in flexing their muscles and tried to bully ALPA and AFA into supporting them by claiming they would drive the company into Section 7 if their demands weren't met. The other unions told them to **** and take their lumps like everybody else. AMFA went on strike anyhow, and because of the bad blood the other unions didn't support them, sealing their fate.

I bet Occam's Razor can confirm or deny... he seems pretty plugged in over there. Occam?

Nopac
10-25-2007, 07:10 AM
I believe that Occam posts on the "other airline forum". You might want to ask the question over there.

not necessary
10-25-2007, 08:35 AM
Northwest Orient unions historically never supported each other and management used them like a whipsaw against one another. Where do you think the saying: 'why is northwest like a cobra, you can never tell when it will strike' came from?

The mechanics elected to bolt IAM for Amfa. AMFA took in the cleaners to expand their union, but left the door open for management to manipulate the number of cleaners on the job. When nwa elected to outsource the cleaners the majority of Amfa was cleaners. So how would they vote on such a contract? Amfa shot itself in the foot by negotiating a poor contract initially. And the crafty nwa management took advantage of them.

That said, it's important to observe that nwa pilots lack courage. Any group which votes in a 40% pay cut, essentially eliminates its retirement plan and generally caves to management demands across the board can't even support itself much less another union.

Nugget#69
10-25-2007, 01:05 PM
. The new union came in with big expectations and they tried flexing their muscles and went on strike without the assistance of the other unions. They were wrong and the company was able to replace all of the mechanics and keep the airline running.

So is this the definition of a Scab. If so, why aren't the pilots and other unions trying to do something about it now.

IXLR8
10-25-2007, 02:26 PM
I believe the mechanics that crossed the lines are considered scabs, but the problem with the AMFA deal is that they didnt even give their mechanics a chance to vote. Now, some mechanics say they told the Union heads if the contract that the Company comes back with isnt worth voting on, then call a strike. It's too bad, but without the larger backing from the IAM the AMFA guys just didnt have the power to hold down NWA. There were apparently plenty of mechanics out there to support the aircraft. It seems all of the other Unions took the "we'll fight this out on another day" stand.

flyguy1
10-25-2007, 03:44 PM
As a NWA I will give you one reason why I didn't support AMFA. We had just taken a 15% cut to "help" the airline. Joe mechanic walks into my cockpit and after looking at the logbooks says "Thanks for the paycut, that's all going into my pocket". Now you tell me, how excited would you be to support them?