Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : SWA & Alaska?


Pilot41
11-05-2007, 04:40 PM
True Or Not True - Nov. 8 announcement? LOL!


TheGreatChecko
11-05-2007, 04:45 PM
I'm pretty sure Alaska hates SWA.

328dude
11-05-2007, 05:12 PM
Dont think so, but I'm often wrong with these things. They are expected to annnouce a complete shakeup to our fee structure and boarding things, but that's as much as I know.


mike734
11-05-2007, 06:37 PM
True Or Not True - Nov. 8 announcement? LOL!
Two very different business models. If you are talking a merger/buyout, I doubt it.

Al Aska
11-06-2007, 09:35 AM
Yes it is true.... Alaska is buying SW!

mulcher
11-06-2007, 11:45 AM
Now that was pretty funny...glad to see a sense of humor on here.

Rocco
11-06-2007, 12:37 PM
True Or Not True - Nov. 8 announcement? LOL!

Hard to say. Neither company is in trouble, except for the fact they fly airplanes. SWA likes to buy things on sale and Alaska is doing pretty good.

Hard to make a business argument for it. Lots of $$ to make something this BIG happen.

mike734
11-06-2007, 03:32 PM
SW does not need ALK. If they want to take over Seattle they will. The only reason they have not done it yet is because the rest of country is more profitable AND SeaTac has some of the highest landing fees in the nation. That is why SW has proposed to build a new terminal on Boeing field.

ChinsFive
11-06-2007, 04:25 PM
SW does not need ALK. If they want to take over Seattle they will. The only reason they have not done it yet is because the rest of country is more profitable AND SeaTac has some of the highest landing fees in the nation. That is why SW has proposed to build a new terminal on Boeing field.

They proposed to have the taxpayers build a new terminal on Boeing field that they can use.

HPilot
11-06-2007, 04:31 PM
I don't think Southwest would want to deal with the diferences in culture. Alaska though is one of the most likely canidates in the industry to be aquired however. Low stock price and for their size they have a lot of cash. Look at the screw job Southwest gave the ATA pilots . If they did aquire Alaska the pilots could kiss their jobs good bye. Don't think it's gonna happen.

328dude
11-06-2007, 04:45 PM
Look at the screw job Southwest gave the ATA pilots . .

Yea, we screwed em bad. Guess we should have let them all be on the street.:rolleyes:

seaav8tor
11-06-2007, 05:03 PM
They proposed to have the taxpayers build a new terminal on Boeing field that they can use.


False.

SW proposed to build their own terminal at their own expense. SEATAC does not compete and as a result the POS has run amuck with out of control spending. Of course, just pass the cost to the users, no problem.

aupilot
11-06-2007, 05:14 PM
Actually, if the AirTran deal had gone through most of those pilots would have still had jobs. Ironically, there are now a lot of former ATA pilots at AirTran.

Al Aska
11-06-2007, 05:15 PM
False.

SW proposed to build their own terminal at their own expense. SEATAC does not compete and as a result the POS has run amuck with out of control spending. Of course, just pass the cost to the users, no problem.

You got that right! This state, County, and Port, are FUBAR!

HPilot
11-06-2007, 07:39 PM
Yea, we screwed em bad. Guess we should have let them all be on the street.:rolleyes:

Actually they would have been purchased by AWA, but you guys blocked it. Then the ex-Southwest mngt. sleaze at ATA started dismantling the company. He pulls ATA out of DEN you guys go in. He pulls ATA out of Chicago you guys go in. Etc, etc, etc. Furlough 1/2 the pilots and sell off the best aircraft. I'm impressed though, if it weren't for the guys I know at ATA I'd never know what kind of operation you really run. That's some impressive spin doctoring. The luv airline, yeah right.

LuvJockey
11-07-2007, 03:10 AM
HPilot, what a bunch of crap. ATA just pulled out of LGA, and Southwest, err I mean AirTran (I guess that makes them sleazy) just went in and bought the gates. Southwest has been hiring furloughed ATA guys. Me thinks you're just bitter about your company's nosedive. Anybody out there think that AWA + USAIR + ATA would be any better?

OscartheGrouch
11-07-2007, 06:01 AM
Actually they would have been purchased by AWA, but you guys blocked it. Then the ex-Southwest mngt. sleaze at ATA started dismantling the company. He pulls ATA out of DEN you guys go in. He pulls ATA out of Chicago you guys go in. Etc, etc, etc. Furlough 1/2 the pilots and sell off the best aircraft. I'm impressed though, if it weren't for the guys I know at ATA I'd never know what kind of operation you really run. That's some impressive spin doctoring. The luv airline, yeah right.

Wow HP sounds like some therapy is in order. Bitterness, envy, inability to recognize reality, etc. All these can be cured. Just ask my wife the psychologist who has done wonders for me.

Comparing what SWA has done to/with ATA and what has happened to the USair east folks is pretty funny. Fact is ATA was in BK and downsizing is in order to correct a failed business model including the furlough of a certain number of employees. Most airlines would luv to have some ex-SWA folks helping them with their problems. Please advise your friends at ATA to stand by because I for one (and most of our pilots/FA's) will not stand for any flying done by ATA 737's anymore. If a 737 can do it we want SWA folks operating it. How's that for LUV!

The former ATA folks that I have flown with have had nothing but good things to say and are very critical of every part of ATA pre-BK. The same can be said of the hundreds of former AWA folks here at SWA. You however are the reason we have a thorough screening process. If you have or when you do apply at SWA you had better be a good actor because the attitude would be too obvious. Oh I know, I wait with anticipation to your answer "I would never pay for my type rating" , "I wouldn't want to have a life sentence on the 737", "I want to work for a real airline" , etc. I have heard them all before.

You remind me of an FO for AWA a had the fortune to meet while riding in the jumpseat back to PHX in 1994. AWA had just come out of bankruptcy and he had an anti-SWA sticker on his brain bag. So when the discussion came up (questions from the Captain, who was a nice guy) I honestly described the pay, upgrade, work rules, etc. You see he (the FO) obviously blamed SWA for "his" troubles. You should have seen him squirm and fidget when I mentioned these things.

Lots of luck with your issues HP!:rolleyes:

OscartheGrouch
11-07-2007, 08:17 AM
Two very different business models. If you are talking a merger/buyout, I doubt it.

Mike,

For once I agree with you. With a avatar like yours we might not mesh too well.:)

HPilot
11-07-2007, 01:24 PM
Gee who am I to believe. The ATA pilots or the Southwest drones that have routine kool aid enimas. Boy, tough choice. I'll go with the ATA guys. Oh yeah, I don't even have an app in with you guys even though I have about 3000 121 PIC. I haven't bought a job yet and I'm not starting now.

HPilot
11-07-2007, 01:29 PM
[QUOTE=You remind me of an FO for AWA a had the fortune to meet while riding in the jumpseat back to PHX in 1994. AWA had just come out of bankruptcy and he had an anti-SWA sticker on his brain bag. So when the discussion came up (questions from the Captain, who was a nice guy) I honestly described the pay, upgrade, work rules, etc. You see he (the FO) obviously blamed SWA for "his" troubles. You should have seen him squirm and fidget when I mentioned these things.

Lots of luck with your issues HP!:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Yeah I'm sure in all your imaginary tales you come out the brillant one. Ha, Ha, you were the geek in school that never got the girl weren't you. Now you have the hottie because you pay for it, just like you payed for your type.

OscartheGrouch
11-07-2007, 02:28 PM
Gee who am I to believe. The ATA pilots or the Southwest drones that have routine kool aid enimas. Boy, tough choice. I'll go with the ATA guys. Oh yeah, I don't even have an app in with you guys even though I have about 3000 121 PIC. I haven't bought a job yet and I'm not starting now.

Oh my! I believe my diagnosis was correct. My wife is a Pscyhologist, maybe she can suggest someone to help you with your issues. Believe whomever you wish just don't listen to those voices in your head.

There's that buying a job comment I knew would be thrown my way. One of these days maybe we should discuss what a great investment it was. Oh! and I prefer to take my koolaid orally.:)

HPilot
11-07-2007, 02:30 PM
There you guys go explaining away being air *****s. "It was a great investment" Ha Ha

OscartheGrouch
11-07-2007, 02:41 PM
Yeah I'm sure in all your imaginary tales you come out the brillant one. Ha, Ha, you were the geek in school that never got the girl weren't you. Now you have the hottie because you pay for it, just like you payed for your type.

You don't know me thank goodness because I was called "honest Abe" before.
The story I told was true and accurate and I would take a lie detector test to prove it.

Wow! So now I was a geek who failed at LUV. Actually I do have the hottie and I do pay for it (she's called my wife). There is that pay for training thing again. We all payed for our training one way or another. I went in the Marines and you......?:rolleyes:

OscartheGrouch
11-07-2007, 02:44 PM
There you guys go explaining away being air *****s. "It was a great investment" Ha Ha

HP,

I would enjoy some banter with someone a little more advanced than kindergarden. Your maturity level would indicate we will be getting no where, so the conversation if ended.:p

LuvJockey
11-07-2007, 09:07 PM
Yeah, HPilot - definitely do NOT pay for a type rating. Good grief, it would take you like 1 or 2 months pay differential as an FO at SWA vs US Airways to get that money back. At least you're standing on principle - don't pay that $8000 for training when they're only gonna pay you $50,000 a year more! I'm less principled than you, and I'm feelin' bad about myself. I think I'll go buy myself a Corvette with our annual pay differential, and I will in fact feel better about myself.:D Stay strong, brother! Stick with the core values of America West/US Airways/ALPA/almost ATA savior/almost Delta messiah/ or whatever you personally feel like calling yourself now.

determined2fly
11-07-2007, 10:18 PM
I have yet to meet an ATA pilot that is friendly.

ChinsFive
11-07-2007, 11:39 PM
False.

SW proposed to build their own terminal at their own expense. SEATAC does not compete and as a result the POS has run amuck with out of control spending. Of course, just pass the cost to the users, no problem.

Yeah, I kinda jumped the gun on that... Didn't it get killed because Alaska wanted in too and the two combined would have cost taxpayers money in road-work and noise issues?

HalinTexas
11-08-2007, 04:56 AM
I have yet to meet an ATA pilot that is friendly.


Who have you met? Under what circumstances?

Tell me more.

HalinTexas
11-08-2007, 05:23 AM
Actually, if the AirTran deal had gone through most of those pilots would have still had jobs. Ironically, there are now a lot of former ATA pilots at AirTran.

That was not true.

If the Airtran deal would have gone through, FL was only offering interviews. No guarantees of hiring. FL was only looking for gates and slots.

There would have been and ATA left for a few months, about 450 pilots. The plan was to retreat into IND and go from there. NW came into IND and chased us out with the help of the greater Indianapolis customer base. The AWA deal fell through due to financial issues on their end.(??????) (BS alarm is going off here.) John Dennison, former SWA CFO, came in and immediately put the kabosh on that. There was close coordination with SWA. ATA, who had built it's reputation in Florida long before SWA entered the state, pulled out of the state over the next year or so. According to Mgt. we pulled out due to low revenue. (BS) But the codeshare also violated the existing SWA scope language. This type of thing happened in several markets. SWA employees benefitted directly from ATA's demise, and continues to benefit via profit sharing ($100M+ over the last 2 years) as a result of the existing codeshare.

ATA has done the bidding of SWA. John Dennison left active control of ATA to his appointed successor, Sabodh Karnik, last fall, but remains on the BOD. Karnik has done very little to secure and protect ATA's future. A member of World Holdings' BOD, a general, told our union leadership that Herb Kelleher played an active roll in the ATA, GAL, WLDA transaction, and insinuated that it would not have happened without his participation. The military continues to ensure repeat business for ATA.

Yes, SWA has hired many furloughee and others that just wanted to leave, but they've turned down far more. There is currently over 250 pilots furloughed from ATA. My guess about half will come back.

Story after story is shared via our semi-private web site of SWA pilots voicing their disapproval of this codeshare to our pilots while jumpseating on your airline. The common statement is that the ATA codeshare is preventing their upgrade, and slowing growth of SWA. Meanwhile I'll spend more time in the right seat this time around than I did the first time.

SWA pilots. You can feel like we're "taking" your business, "reducing" your career expectations, "enjoying" the fruits of your sacrifices all day long. That's your prerogative. Just quite dancing on the and publicly p!ss!ing on the graves of ATA and complain that we've taken your burial plot, please.

OscartheGrouch
11-08-2007, 06:13 AM
Halin,

BTW. The relationsship with ATA has been benficial for SWA, no doubt. I for one appreciate your input with real time info - the good, bad, and the ugly. The speculation by some not at ATA or SWA is just that, speculation. No facts (for the most part) only hearsay. Thanks for your input.

I am probably not the only one who would like to cement a relationship with ATA that is beneficial to all. Merging seniority lists alone would improve the hourly wage significantly for the ATA folks. Certainly there are quite a few more issues that would have to be "worked" out, and I am not underestimating the difficulties in that process at all. Win/win for all can be achieved (despite what HP boy says) and I would refuse to agree to anything that danced or urinated on anyone. Of course I am but one of 5600. Best of luck. I would even say that a deal could be done to include your furloughees.

tazzzzed
11-08-2007, 06:19 AM
we have lots of former ATA guys at airtran. it would have been nice if SW had stood up and taken up the slack after that deal. . SW has a nasty rap about that. likes the equipment/gates but not the personnel. hear is hoping that all the rumors about us getting together are just B.S!!!!
we did just get the 5 lga slots and 1 dca.and the rumor is that ata is getting out of sched. operations again.what is that going to do to the code share??????

HalinTexas
11-08-2007, 06:23 AM
we have lots of former ATA guys at airtran. it would have been nice if SW had stood up and taken up the slack after that deal. . SW has a nasty rap about that. likes the equipment/gates but not the personnel. hear is hoping that all the rumors about us getting together are just B.S!!!!
we did just get the 5 lga slots and 1 dca.and the rumor is that ata is getting out of sched. operations again.what is that going to do to the code share??????


Maybe you need to re-read my post.

FL was going to do less for ATA than SWA did. I would have been on the street in the summer of '05 had the FL/ATA thing gone through. I was a captain at the time we filed, 3 years ago last month.

Preliminary talks alluded to a "staple job" had there been any seniority integration. There was none planned as far I could tell.

tazzzzed
11-08-2007, 06:30 AM
who knows. all of the ata guys i have talked too feel we have done better by them than SW has.personally i would rather see us do the growing ourselves than thru a merger. they are never pretty.

LuvJockey
11-08-2007, 06:32 AM
Thanks for the real info on ATA, Hal. Sorry about the jumpseater grief from any of our guys. The codeshare has become the focus of many here with reduced growth numbers. The reality is that many here disapprove of our contract language on codeshare, not specifically the ATA codeshare.

HalinTexas
11-08-2007, 06:46 AM
I know of several ATA pilots that left for FL and quit within a year or two to come back to ATA, or move on to somewhere else. I know of no one that's left ATA for SWA and come back to ATA or somewhere else.

tazzzzed
11-08-2007, 03:57 PM
if your boys left us in the last 2 years to go back I would like to know what they are smoking so i can start toking again soon!!!!!!! please airtran is far from great but the ship at ata has been going the wrong direction for the last 2 years no questions asked. ATA has a way better looking paint job then the rest of us but that is not a good enough reason to go back!! lol. I am a lost AA kid. had a clas date yadda yadda yadda . 9/11 took care of all that but the fact o the matter is even as a 6 year f.o. on the 757/767 i am still taking in more than 20 bucks an hour here. so here i sit waiting for the tooth fairy to come back and toss us some real coin till then................... I am enjoying the ride. but serious let me know what they are smoking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!