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View Full Version : 777 service out of KRDU


DILLA
11-14-2007, 07:32 PM
Several weeks ago, I saw an AA 777 departing RDU. Was that a training flight or is American offering non-stop int'l (overseas) service out of RDU? I have never seen that out of that small an airport. I assumed RDU offered mostly domestic service and to nearby countries.


ghilis101
11-14-2007, 07:35 PM
yes it goes to Gatwick i believe? From what i understand theres a huge corporate presence in RDU (Glaxosmithkleine?) and they basically subsidize that flight. jumpseaters dream as i imagine it usually goes out with open seats?

JungleBus
11-14-2007, 08:08 PM
A buddy of mine was in RDU the other day and asked the gate agents about it. Apparently that day it went out with 2...yes TWO...passengers in coach. And a full first/business class. It'd be a jumpseater's dream *if* AA let more than a privileged few jumpseat internationally! They're the only majors with an exclusive international list now. Maybe some day they'll decide to stop being such SkynAAzis and join the rest of the industry...


ghilis101
11-14-2007, 08:10 PM
hmmm i thought you could still cabin jumpseat on them on the same domestic cass reciprocal agreement list, just couldnt get back in on them?

7576FO
11-15-2007, 03:57 AM
A buddy of mine was in RDU the other day and asked the gate agents about it. Apparently that day it went out with 2...yes TWO...passengers in coach. And a full first/business class. It'd be a jumpseater's dream *if* AA let more than a privileged few jumpseat internationally! They're the only majors with an exclusive international list now. Maybe some day they'll decide to stop being such SkynAAzis and join the rest of the industry...

I'm an American pilot. I've rode on that RDU to Gatwick flight. Yes, it is mostly for the Pharmacuedical company. It can get full of pax around the holidays and after school is out.

I just looked at the AA int'l j/s list. Are you sure the other major airlines allow all regional airlines unlimited access to the j/s int'l ??

I'll make a few phone calls to UAL pilots and report back.

Oh, thanks for calling me a Nazi !

and you fly for? Horizon or ?

FliFast
11-15-2007, 06:59 AM
As an aside, back in the mid to late 90's when Orville, Wilbur, and I used to fly St. Louis to London's Gatwick for TWA, we used to park near American's armada of 777s. One of them of course, was the RDU flight. You can see that this flight has been operating on and off for the last 10 years.

FF

OldAg84
11-15-2007, 07:20 AM
The flight will change over to Heathrow on 3/30/08 per AA's website. Depending on flight patterns and what I'm doing at the moment I often see the 777 come or go over the house.

dojetdriver
11-15-2007, 07:23 AM
I'm an American pilot. I've rode on that RDU to Gatwick flight. Yes, it is mostly for the Pharmacuedical company. It can get full of pax around the holidays and after school is out.

I just looked at the AA int'l j/s list. Are you sure the other major airlines allow all regional airlines unlimited access to the j/s int'l ??



YES, other majors/legacys allow us little regional airline pilots to use the JS int'l. Goes without saying, it's cabin only. I know, the agony, the horror of letting a lowly regional guy JS on one of YOUR aircraft to Europe, South America, the Orient, wherever is considered int'l per your policy.

For a while, it was you and CAL, now I believe, it's just you guys with that screwed up policy. I know, I know, it's that mentality that since a regional airline can't take one of your pilots to an int'l destination, you guys won't carry a regional pilot to an int'l destination.

When I was based in LGA we had a lot of AA commuters from CHS. AA/AE had no service between CHS and LGA at the time. It was always a joke to tell them, "Since I can't ride on your airline from JFK to LHR because we don't serve that market, why should we let you ride from CHS to LGA since you don't serve this market?"

Calm down, it's a joke, we ALWAYS let them ride. It was amazing how many AA pilots didn't even know that though.

HercDriver130
11-15-2007, 10:42 AM
back in the day when RDU was a HUB for AA, they flew London and Paris daily out of RDU.

dn_wisconsin
11-15-2007, 01:53 PM
i dont know if this applies but i one of my teachers in college was a retired AA guy, he said RDU used to have a 767 direct to Paris to fly horse meat, its a delicacy over there i guess, so maybe in England too, can anyone confirm?

CHQ Pilot
11-15-2007, 02:21 PM
I can't verify the validity, but I was told the RDU-LGW flight was part of some deal dating back to when RDU was a hub for AA. I was told that AA agreed to keep a certain level of service, including the RDU-LGW flight, in exchange for terminal improvements and tax advantages. The city wanted to keep a certain level of service which included a European destination to attract more business to the area (mostly for the Research Triangle).

As a side note, I remember taking a DC-10 from DFW to RDU and then hopping on a Shorts up to RIC. Times have changed around there.

AA772ER
11-15-2007, 02:56 PM
A buddy of mine was in RDU the other day and asked the gate agents about it. Apparently that day it went out with 2...yes TWO...passengers in coach. And a full first/business class. It'd be a jumpseater's dream *if* AA let more than a privileged few jumpseat internationally! They're the only majors with an exclusive international list now. Maybe some day they'll decide to stop being such SkynAAzis and join the rest of the industry...

I honestly dont believe that. The flight is booked over 100 in coach for the next week and a half (probably beyond - thats as far as I looked). While its usually one of the better flights to non rev on to England I dont think it ever only leaves with 2 people in Y.

reCALcitrant
11-15-2007, 05:49 PM
i dont know if this applies but i one of my teachers in college was a retired AA guy, he said RDU used to have a 767 direct to Paris to fly horse meat, its a delicacy over there i guess, so maybe in England too, can anyone confirm?

Horse meat is not a delicacy in France or England. In France they actually eat horse dicks!:D The English would not lower themselves to eating dick. Just the French.

B757200ER
11-16-2007, 06:08 AM
I'm an American pilot. I just looked at the AA int'l j/s list. Are you sure the other major airlines allow all regional airlines unlimited access to the j/s int'l ??

I'll make a few phone calls to UAL pilots and report back.

It's true; UAL and NWA and other majors have unlimited int'l jumpseats. AA is the only one left with a seperate Int'l list, and a domestic list. It is unfortunate, but I don't think APA can change it.

JungleBus
11-16-2007, 12:39 PM
7576FO--

Sorry for the somewhat intemperate tone of my post, as AA pilots are not responsible for the policy - AA management is. They are now the sole holdouts on this, as well as the pointless "only as many jumpseaters as there are installed jumpseats regardless of number of open cabin seats" rule. You can consider my SkynAAzi comment to be directed towards them...I understand AA line pilots also have pet names for their management :D.

I understand that jumpseating is a privilege and not a right, but it is a mutually negotiated privilege based on reciprocity. When carrier A will take carrier B's pilots anywhere they go but carrier B won't take carrier A's pilots to certain destinations, reciprocity does not exist in my opinion.

Seeburg220
11-16-2007, 01:15 PM
That's AAL 174. I've worked that flight out of RDU for a long, long time. Wish there were more 767's to work. Heck, wish there were more Boeings to work. At least I could count on some consistency in terms of climb rate / airspeed performance.

We loved working the RDU traffic when AAL hubbed out of there - it really rocked when the pushes came! Now, it's just a constant trickle of a dozen different types of jets; not nearly as much of a challenge ;)

Mark ZDC

Seeburg220
11-16-2007, 01:19 PM
i dont know if this applies but i one of my teachers in college was a retired AA guy, he said RDU used to have a 767 direct to Paris to fly horse meat, its a delicacy over there i guess, so maybe in England too, can anyone confirm?

Back when I was going to school, I worked the ramp at IAD. We'd load a tractor trailer's-worth of horse meat (quartered in big chunks) onto a B747 for France every week. The nasty thing was, the container would sit on the tarmac, for hours, waiting for the plane to arrive. Hope it was smoke-cured, but probably not :eek:

AAflyer
11-17-2007, 06:11 AM
YES, other majors/legacys allow us little regional airline pilots to use the JS int'l. Goes without saying, it's cabin only. I know, the agony, the horror of letting a lowly regional guy JS on one of YOUR aircraft to Europe, South America, the Orient, wherever is considered int'l per your policy.

For a while, it was you and CAL, now I believe, it's just you guys with that screwed up policy. I know, I know, it's that mentality that since a regional airline can't take one of your pilots to an int'l destination, you guys won't carry a regional pilot to an int'l destination.

When I was based in LGA we had a lot of AA commuters from CHS. AA/AE had no service between CHS and LGA at the time. It was always a joke to tell them, "Since I can't ride on your airline from JFK to LHR because we don't serve that market, why should we let you ride from CHS to LGA since you don't serve this market?"

Calm down, it's a joke, we ALWAYS let them ride. It was amazing how many AA pilots didn't even know that though.

Try to lighten up a little. It is not up to the pilots of American to allow lowly Regional Pilots on the It'l Jumpseat (Where did anyone say that?Hmmmmm assuming again).

Our Flight Management Team (including the bumbling Hetterman) decide who will get recipricol and INt'l jumpseats. The APA and line pilots have little say. (It is amazing how few pilots understand that)
I am sure most pilots would welcome you and everyone else on the It'l Jumpseat if they COULD.

Right now we are in Sec 6, and EVERYTHING comes with a price.

Thanks for flying our pilots home, and for your sense of humour.

SkyNazzi....Ha Ha..That is funny;)

AAflyer

AAflyer
11-17-2007, 06:16 AM
7576FO--

Sorry for the somewhat intemperate tone of my post, as AA pilots are not responsible for the policy - AA management is. They are now the sole holdouts on this, as well as the pointless "only as many jumpseaters as there are installed jumpseats regardless of number of open cabin seats" rule. You can consider my SkynAAzi comment to be directed towards them...I understand AA line pilots also have pet names for their management :D.

I understand that jumpseating is a privilege and not a right, but it is a mutually negotiated privilege based on reciprocity. When carrier A will take carrier B's pilots anywhere they go but carrier B won't take carrier A's pilots to certain destinations, reciprocity does not exist in my opinion.


Yes, you are correct, and for many years we took DAL pilots on the JS who could not return the favor, knowing it would change in the future. Hopefully others will realize we will try to change our policy in the future (up to the management in the end). There is being "reciprocal" and being "professional". Thanks for your continued JS.

Hope to see you on the It'l side soon. I can't say some of pet names we have for AA management, they have eyes and ears everywhere.;)

AAflyer

dojetdriver
11-17-2007, 08:25 AM
Try to lighten up a little.
AAflyer

Um, dude, thats why I put the "calm down, it's a joke" statement in there. it was meant to cover the ENTIRE response.

Get it?

ghilis101
11-17-2007, 09:26 PM
i like AA guys and I work with a lot of them, but I will say that there is a perception out there that AA isnt very kind to jumpseaters.

i know i know its a priveledge and of course captains discretion, but why is AA the only airline that i catch a ride from that has never once offered me first class when its empty? with every other airline ive been on, the captains almost always ask the F/A's to hook it up and throw us in first.

maybe its your company or jumpseat policy, but im just telling it like it is, its kind of why some people get that feeling. i know that some of you do try to get your jumpseaters an upgrade, so it doesnt apply to all AA pilots. and perhaps a lot of bitterness about the industry is wrongfully being taken out on fellow pilots...

JungleBus
11-18-2007, 07:47 AM
I've had AA crews treat me well the handful of times I jumpseated, although I didn't get offered first. That's one of the things I never expect tho, it's just a pleasant surprise when it happens.

I agree with the perception of AA not being kind to jumpseaters, but I think it's mostly due to their gate agents' reputation. Once I thought I'd preempt it by bringing a gate agent candy, and she only got ruder! Between that and the previously mentioned asinine rules that AA mgmt persists in keeping, I use other airlines when possible. AA pilots, however, have always been nice, whether I'm on their jumpseat or they're riding with me.

7576FO
11-18-2007, 01:25 PM
I'm an FO at American.
I would have been more than happy to start e-mailing and writing up our j/s policy.
Had some pilots come on here and asked nicely ( I really wasn't aware of this) I would've gone the extra mile.
There is Eagle and two other regionals on the AA j/s list for int'l.

Have you considered the fact that your Company has to contact AA for the j/s? Just like we contacted your airline.

But since the skyNaxi term was used and then another Huge Ego commuter pilot had to put in his opinion, well I don't feel like like, well i'll go back to watch football this afternoon.

BTW I flew for two commuter airlines for 12 years before AA.

aa73
11-18-2007, 03:40 PM
I'm an FO at American.
I would have been more than happy to start e-mailing and writing up our j/s policy.
Had some pilots come on here and asked nicely ( I really wasn't aware of this) I would've gone the extra mile.
There is Eagle and two other regionals on the AA j/s list for int'l.

Have you considered the fact that your Company has to contact AA for the j/s? Just like we contacted your airline.

But since the skyNaxi term was used and then another Huge Ego commuter pilot had to put in his opinion, well I don't feel like like, well i'll go back to watch football this afternoon.

BTW I flew for two commuter airlines for 12 years before AA.

7576FO,

I think you took the whole thing out of context. The guy was joking and he so stated. If you are taking the Sky Nazi term personally, maybe you have some issues? I consider it an honor. Ya vol, heil!

That said, we are overall very aware of the fact that our agents tend to be the not-so-nicest in the grand scheme of things. I have consistently pushed for our captains to start seating j/seaters in First. So far it's been so-so... but I can assure you that if you are on my flight, you will get a first class seat if there's one open - unless the CA flatly refuses, and that hasn't happened to me yet. Many times, I have to gently remind them, but they have always gladly accepted. I guess it's just not in the company culture. However, most of our CAs that commute almost always offer First.

73

HercDriver130
11-18-2007, 03:59 PM
I commuted for 2 and a half years as an AE pilot out of RDU to both JFK and MIA. Used the J/S many many times and in general I had very good experiences. I also had several very dare I say aloof or rude CA's that made it very difficult at times. And in difficult I mean that they would either treat you like a second class citizen or totally ignore you or act for several minutes like they were NOT gonna give you the J/S then say they were just kidding. On the flip side of that one month my line out of JFK my 4 day ended with an early morning flight from ALB to JFK...block in at 7am.... the RDU 727 left around 720am..... numerous times they would hold at the gate for a minute or two so I could sprint across the ramp to the jetbridge....they knew I appreciated it and I showed it with my actions. The CA was very non-chalant about it and simply said that he always did what he could because you never know when you might need a favour like that and people tend to treat others like they have been treated. Truer words probably never spoken. Bottom line.... while I had some bad experiences.... overall I cant complain just a few bad instances. Now the gate agents tended to be a bit difficult but usually I would just hang out at the gate area and the crew would usually just wave me down as they went to the aircraft. I usally commuted on the same flights month after month and got to know several different crews who bid and flew those trips so after awhile I knew alot of the guys. During those two and a half years I used the JS on TWA, USAIR, AA and UAL. Probably treated the best by TWA guys as they always put me in FIRST except once I had to ride the JS back from STL to RDU. Those guys were tops in my book.

FliFast
11-18-2007, 09:16 PM
Probably treated the best by TWA guys as they always put me in FIRST except once I had to ride the JS back from STL to RDU. Those guys were tops in my book.

Thank you, HercDrvr.

Even during the roller coaster ride at TWA, we never forgot to treat our fellow professional aviators with courtesy. We extended jumpseats to some carriers that were not able to reciprocate, in hopes that our example would prompt their union and management to agree to open up their jumpseats.

Arguably, TWA is now just a memory in the history books of aviation, however; our humbleness and respect for our fellow professionals when it came to jumpseating was always a source of pride.

FF

reCALcitrant
11-19-2007, 05:58 AM
Seems like this talk always turns into this type ****ing contest. I commuted out of RDU to EWR last year for about a year. When I missed a ride on my own carrier, I would go over to the American side. Nothing but absolutely professional and nice. From gate agent to Pilot to FA. It was on AE most of the time. I assume the agents are American's. Maybe a bad assumption, I don't know. I have had ****ty experiences on American, United, TWA, Northwest, Delta, and oh yea, my own CAL. Overall, I've only had one Captain who I wanted to kick the **** out of and that was on one of my own airlines' regional carrier. With big organizations, there are a lot of good people who get remembered because of the one a-hole at the gate, etc.

JungleBus
11-19-2007, 07:40 AM
In response to your question 7576FO, yes, QX has requested int'l jumpseat from AA on several occasions on the basis of it being extended to AS pilots (and they don't do much more int'l than QX does). They were turned down by AA mgmt every time. Most AA pilots are ignorant of this policy, and those who know about it usually don't realize they're the only major left with a separate international list (CAL discontinued the practice earlier this year). Now that you're aware, those of us still at the regionals would be grateful if you'd take the time to call your jumpseat chairman and ask how you can help get the policy changed. I hope you won't let my flippant use of the "SkynAAzi" moniker to describe your management's position stop you.

7576FO
11-19-2007, 08:28 AM
I just sent a debrief asking for the Int'l j/s for Horizon Air and other regional airlines with American.
A copy was also sent to APA our in house union.

I will also try to follow up with a phone call to our union j/s commitee.

aa73
11-19-2007, 09:01 AM
Good on ya, 7576... thanks.

73

JungleBus
11-19-2007, 11:32 AM
Thank you, 7576FO...I'm personally not at QX anymore but appreciate you taking the effort to change AA's policy re: regional airlines and the int'l list.

7576FO
11-19-2007, 03:13 PM
You and everyone are totally welcome! I'll keep after this.

HercDriver130
11-19-2007, 03:57 PM
reCAL.....years ago the AE gate agents were AE employees.... cant speak for now however that was over a decade ago.

Phantom Flyer
11-26-2007, 04:24 PM
American has operated a flight from Mayberry RFD (RDU) to Gatwick for over 10 years. I know...it's hard to imagine little ol' Raleigh, a country bumpkin cow pasture with service all the way over to that big ol' England. Shucks, next thing you know Mayberry will have d-i-r-e-c-t flights places like New York City and maybe even that big ol' 'Lanta some day. If it hasn't rained too much, they even let that big ol' 777 land on the big long dirt strip. Shoot...we might even get some real concrete runways some day !!

As for jumpseaters, United would allow "regional pilots" who were on the "Approved List" to jumpseat to Europe. I know because I let one of Atlantic Southeast Captain's jumpseat to Heathrow out of Dulles at least four times. He was Swedish and would travel home often to see family. Even with the new security procedures, any 121 pilot in the system, is ALWAYS welcomed.

DAL4EVER
11-27-2007, 07:51 AM
dojetdriver,

Calm down big boy. The major's don't look down on you for the size airplane you fly, etc. You need to relax on the tone a bit. The AA flyer doesn't have to go the extra mile at all for you or anyone else but he is. You pull the typicall Bill O'Reilly let's use some incediary talk to flame the situation and get attention then back off and apologize as if that's not what you meant. I flew with two regionals for ten years in between furlough and I've never seen the jumpseat denied based on who you worked for. That said, it often times is corporate security driving the use of international jumpseating.

BTW, I like the Maiden sign. Did you know that Bruce Dickenson is flying 757's for a British charter company. He apparently flew a whole plane filled with fans to Iceland for a concert then sang the show. Outstanding!

dojetdriver
11-27-2007, 08:24 AM
dojetdriver,

Calm down big boy. The major's don't look down on you for the size airplane you fly, etc. You need to relax on the tone a bit. The AA flyer doesn't have to go the extra mile at all for you or anyone else but he is. You pull the typicall Bill O'Reilly let's use some incediary talk to flame the situation and get attention then back off and apologize as if that's not what you meant. I flew with two regionals for ten years in between furlough and I've never seen the jumpseat denied based on who you worked for. That said, it often times is corporate security driving the use of international jumpseating.

Apparently you didn't read all of reply #8, the last part, #20, where I clarified, or #24, where somebody else picked up on the humor. Instead of telling to calm down, maybe you should read ALL the replies before you respond, "big boy". I didn't need to back off or apologize. And I never expected anybody to go the extra mile for me. Only pointing out the fact that there in not a true reciprocal agreement in place when it comes to some airlines.

BTW, I like the Maiden sign. Did you know that Bruce Dickenson is flying 757's for a British charter company. He apparently flew a whole plane filled with fans to Iceland for a concert then sang the show. Outstanding!

Yep, already knew that;

http://airlinepilotforums.com/showthread.php?t=19136

7576FO
11-28-2007, 06:00 AM
Since some were interested in RDU. AA starts RDU to London Heathrow on Mar 30 08

7576FO
12-03-2007, 10:37 AM
A newly added proposal on the APA Contract negotiating website is the we (APA) are requesting complete control of the Jumpseat and Lists for Domestic and International. AA would still be required to update CASS and DECS (our Sabre software).