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View Full Version : Trans States


Randolph
01-10-2008, 08:57 AM
Ok, I've used the search function for the forums, but posts from 2005 come up.....I have a few questions for you TSA guys out there...

-Would the commute from ORD to STL be pretty easy? I know commutting sucks, but there are tons of AA and UA flights daily between the two cities

-Is the training at TSA really that difficult? I know the pass rate is low. What's so hard about the training? The sims or the ground school?

-What is the current upgrade?

-Are they taking pilots with less than 500/50?

Any feedback is greatly appreciated...thanks guys


Pilotpip
01-10-2008, 09:05 AM
Commuting from ORD is possible. There are quite a few here that do it. We have hourly flights both ways on the UAL side. AA has a ton of flights too. Commuting to/from ORD can be a nightmare though. A canary farts and there's a two hour delay. TSA has no commuter clause. You may want to think about MDW too.

The training here is very hard. Lots of info, really fast with no additional resources and nobody gives a **** if you get it or not. As far as difficulty, all of it. Especially if you're going from that PA-28 to a jet. There's a little bit of a learning curve and 8 sim sessions are all you have.

Recent upgrades have been here about a year. However there is no growth, and all upgrades have been for attrition. Lots of guys in the SWA pool and going to JetBlue and Continental. However none of them are hiring nearly as many in 08 and you have a ton of guys in the left seat without much PIC. It will not stay that low. We're very fat on captains right now due to expected attrition. However that, and the fact that a bunch of US flying has been cut in RIC make me think that if you're in the lower half of seniority you will be in the right seat for quite a while.

I don't know how low the time is for interviews. We're well staffed right now so they will probably have higher standards.

Do yourself a favor, instruct, gain experience and go somewhere better in a year.

Outlaw2097
01-10-2008, 09:08 AM
pip...im looking at tsa as well.

how long have you been there and why are you down on it?


labbats
01-10-2008, 09:15 AM
I don't know much about Trans States other than what the internet says, but I do know that ORD - STL is not an easy commute. With the influx of old TWA people into Eagle and AA that are forced to commute from STL to ORD it is very hard to get a seat. In fact, it's quite common to have a 2 leg commute from ORD to another stop on AA then connecting to STL on AA connection.

If you live in Chicago, then invest some $ and get on Climbto350.com and check out the weekly jobs posted on there in Chicago or get hired at Eagle, Skywest or someone based in ORD.

Pilotpip
01-10-2008, 09:16 AM
I've been here for a few months. My old job shared office space with them and I dealt with their aircraft a bunch so I have known what's going on in house for about six years.

The flight crews here are great. However management doesn't think about anything but how much money they can save today. No long-term thoughts whatsoever. There are far better companies out there to work for.

Nobody knows how age 65 will work out. What is known is that SWA and others aren't going to hire nearly as many (if any) as they did last year. Because there's no growth there's no movement unless the guys in the left seat are getting hired. I'd much rather be stuck in the right seat somewhere that pays better, and has better bennefits than here which is why I'm leaving.

There are tons of ex-waterskiers on this forum and there's a reason for them making the lateral move. I'd have no problem with staying here but I would much rather be somewhere that has better pay and bennies which is why I'm out.

reevesofskyking
01-10-2008, 10:59 AM
well there are making dvd's for all the new hires showing them everything in the sim.

There is something going on, I just got out of recurrent, and EP came to our class and said bring anyone we know that can pass training, they NEED 40 FO's for the Feb class alone, I dont know how many in march or after.

Asked EP about it, and he said figure it out.

I think the training program is going to be doable now if you have a little bit better than a clue. I cannot say for sure what they are doing now will lower washout rates.

Reeves

Zach
01-10-2008, 11:14 AM
Our class was the first to get these DVD's, and 4 out of 22 washed out. 1 didn't make it past the oral, and the rest were in the sim.

Koolaidman
01-10-2008, 11:23 AM
Not a fun commute. Get your time and go to SkyWest or another airline with a ORD base. Quit working for crappy wages and people who treat other human beings like TSA.

ExperimentalAB
01-10-2008, 11:38 AM
Ditto what Koolaidman said. I am a survivor...Life does get better than TSA.

Killer51883
01-10-2008, 11:43 AM
if you failed out of a previous erj course for another regional and applied to tsa whats the chance of getting an interview for and landing in that feb class

ExperimentalAB
01-10-2008, 11:45 AM
if you failed out of a previous erj course for another regional and applied to tsa whats the chance of getting an interview for and landing in that feb class

Aren't you with Eagle??

But to answer your question, I've heard of somebody who got canned from Mesa that didn't get invited for a TSA interview. You may know who I'm talking about...

Killer51883
01-10-2008, 11:50 AM
i was with eagle but now im at chq i was just wondering for a friend. you talking about the guy from mesa who stole the ipod? im not sure who else that would be.

ExperimentalAB
01-10-2008, 12:18 PM
i was with eagle but now im at chq i was just wondering for a friend. you talking about the guy from mesa who stole the ipod? im not sure who else that would be.

No, somebody else...but did that dude get fired too??

BYUFlyr
01-10-2008, 12:32 PM
There is something going on, I just got out of recurrent, and EP came to our class and said bring anyone we know that can pass training, they NEED 40 FO's for the Feb class alone, I dont know how many in march or after.

Asked EP about it, and he said figure it out.


So did you figure it out?

Zach
01-10-2008, 12:53 PM
So did you figure it out?

Im curious as well.

AirWillie
01-10-2008, 01:03 PM
how long is reserve? I'm guessing if they need 40+ not long?

Zach
01-10-2008, 01:06 PM
Pip was on reserve for only a few weeks, and went straight to a hard line. I was on reserve for 2 months, had a build up on the 3rd, and Im on a hard line now. Pip was in the class a month ahead of mine.

Pilotpip
01-10-2008, 02:33 PM
And my pairings were so bad the last two months that I was thinking about bidding reserve next month. There's nothing worse than 12 hour 4 days make for very few days off in a row.

They hired like mad when the continental flying was up for grabs, then when they didn't get it they furloughed. Management is so secretive about everything here that it wouldn't surprise me if they think they're going to get some stuff from mesa. However it's hard to get flying when you're only willing to get the the planes after the contract is signed.

jaded
01-10-2008, 03:36 PM
It might have something to do with going back to turboprops.... hey reeves, it was nice meeting you the other day at the pear tree.

jaded
01-10-2008, 03:42 PM
Ok, I've used the search function for the forums, but posts from 2005 come up.....I have a few questions for you TSA guys out there...

-Would the commute from ORD to STL be pretty easy? I know commutting sucks, but there are tons of AA and UA flights daily between the two cities

-Is the training at TSA really that difficult? I know the pass rate is low. What's so hard about the training? The sims or the ground school?

-What is the current upgrade?

-Are they taking pilots with less than 500/50?

Any feedback is greatly appreciated...thanks guys

Im pretty sure, if lower than 500tt but multi is higher than 50 then its ok for the most part. Besides, it's true they need 40 people for the next ground class... Im thinking it's also mainly to cover the washout rate...

A10crewdawg
01-10-2008, 03:55 PM
Training is hard.

The oral won't be so bad as long as you stay ahead of the game. The sims were the hardest part for me. They have a lot of things packed into 8 sessions, but if you work your ass off and show progress they will work with you. The pilot group is awesome here, but as was said before, management is trying to run a business. If you need a start in the airlines, then come here. Be ready to work your little tail off though.

reevesofskyking
01-10-2008, 04:41 PM
It might have something to do with going back to turboprops.... hey reeves, it was nice meeting you the other day at the pear tree.

I hope that I was able to give you insight to what is coming next.

I had a good time talking to all of ya guys down there

Reeves

ExperimentalAB
01-10-2008, 05:15 PM
i was with eagle but now im at chq i was just wondering for a friend. you talking about the guy from mesa who stole the ipod? im not sure who else that would be.

::duh:: I knew that...brain-fart.

Pilotpip
01-10-2008, 05:22 PM
I have two theories regarding this hiring spree:

1) All this mesa talk makes them think they're going to pick up some flying from UAL. However they thought they were getting the CO flying that CHQ got. When the deal didn't work out, they furloughed. It's hard to get flying when you don't have any aircraft, and are only willing to lease old, used-up frames that you can get on the cheap. It's also hard when you're not willing to base the contract on on-time performance rather than completion factor (which is why we lost the CO bid). They'll take a 6 hour MX delay but as long as the flight is completed it's all good.

2) They're getting the ATRs. However, there are a ton of short routes where these already make sense (STL-SPI/SGF/CID/MEM, ORD-MLI/SBN/MKE, IAD-MDT/RIC). About eight of those for the short routes, and park the older EPs. I don't know how the pay rate would compare, but I don't think there would be many senior FOs willing to take the QOL hit to go to the left seat on the prop. Also don't know how an ATR-72 would work based on the AA scope. My understanding was that the older ATRs were grandfathered in from TWA and when those left the exemption to the 50 seats left with them.

ExperimentalAB
01-10-2008, 05:30 PM
I have two theories regarding this hiring spree:

1) All this mesa talk makes them think they're going to pick up some flying from UAL. However they thought they were getting the CO flying that CHQ got. When the deal didn't work out, they furloughed. It's hard to get flying when you don't have any aircraft, and are only willing to lease old, used-up frames that you can get on the cheap. It's also hard when you're not willing to base the contract on on-time performance rather than completion factor (which is why we lost the CO bid). They'll take a 6 hour MX delay but as long as the flight is completed it's all good.

2) They're getting the ATRs. However, there are a ton of short routes where these already make sense (STL-SPI/SGF/CID/MEM, ORD-MLI/SBN/MKE, IAD-MDT/RIC). About eight of those for the short routes, and park the older EPs. I don't know how the pay rate would compare, but I don't think there would be many senior FOs willing to take the QOL hit to go to the left seat on the prop. Also don't know how an ATR-72 would work based on the AA scope. My understanding was that the older ATRs were grandfathered in from TWA and when those left the exemption to the 50 seats left with them.

1) I just can't see TSA acquiring new Jets...no way no how.

2) I may be blowing smoke, but I am pretty sure O'Hare won't allow the Turboprop flying. Also, the AA Scope is for Jets. The ATR-72, then, wouldn't be an issue.

Pilotpip
01-10-2008, 05:53 PM
My points exactly

reevesofskyking
01-10-2008, 06:03 PM
I still think they are up to something.

They would not hire like they are without knowing something.

They just got done licking their wounds from the last time.

RZ when I asked him about the ATR"s said it was just a free ride, no business lunch.

I really do not think we are getting those back

flynavyj
01-10-2008, 06:11 PM
the AA routes out of STL (SPI, SGF, CID, MEM) would be possibles that would avoid chicago. I know they've been harping about trying to find some ATR-72 flying again, and if the company "believes" they can do it, i'd assume they either know that the scope won't come into play...or they've found a loophole to allow it.

As far as training goes, It's tough, but do-able...i know they're liking guys to be around the 500/50 mark, more on either end of that will allow you to come in with less than the other (i.e. 700/40 or 400/80).

For your friend, it's unlikely they'd take him. It wouldn't hurt to have him apply, but i've heard from the hiring folks before that they stray away from people with training failures, TSA's reputation for a difficult training department gave them the impression that they'd rather hire a guy with no experience than one who's failed a more "forgiving" training environment already.

As to other helps for new hires, the majority of failures are sim related, either not being up to speed, or having instructors (FSI guys) who aren't familiar with the way TSA does things (airline specific items) and as a result, teach guys to do it wrong, then trying to backtrack to correct the mistake takes up much needed sim time which is in short supply from the start. To fix this, they made the DVD's which are nice to have to get you an idea as to how things will play out, they're also working on getting all the new hires paired with TSA sim instructors which should bring the pass rate up to where it should be....in theory.

Best of luck, but with all the hiring thats going on in the regional world, and the number of airlines that are flying out of ORD, it would make sense to just instruct a little longer and go to one of the good airlines based there. Skywest would come to mind, Eagle if upgrade isn't your main concern...stray from mesa and gojet though...the latter like the plague.

mking84
01-10-2008, 06:16 PM
well there are making dvd's for all the new hires showing them everything in the sim.

There is something going on, I just got out of recurrent, and EP came to our class and said bring anyone we know that can pass training, they NEED 40 FO's for the Feb class alone, I dont know how many in march or after.

Asked EP about it, and he said figure it out.

I think the training program is going to be doable now if you have a little bit better than a clue. I cannot say for sure what they are doing now will lower washout rates.

Reeves

The only thing "growing" there is a stack of resignation letters. You have to hire when people quit, plain and simple.

Killer51883
01-10-2008, 08:35 PM
thanks navyj. if they get atr's that would be great i might have to switch from chq to tsa just to fly those big old beasts again. The atr would be alot better than the ep's and they would fit in the AA scope clause. The scope clause is not seats but take off weight. not 100% right on this but i believe its anything over 75000 pound max take off weight. the atr 72-200 is the same size as a 145 (48501) and the 72-500 is only a few thousand pounds more.

AV8ER
01-11-2008, 05:51 AM
The only thing "growing" there is a stack of resignation letters. You have to hire when people quit, plain and simple.

Are there still a lot of FO's leaving? I know its winter, but I don't think there have been as many captains who have moved on lately. I know my seniority number didn't go up the last 3 months nearly as much as it has before.

Schwartz
01-11-2008, 06:27 AM
I still think they are up to something.

They would not hire like they are without knowing something.

They just got done licking their wounds from the last time.

RZ when I asked him about the ATR"s said it was just a free ride, no business lunch.

I really do not think we are getting those back


Reeves,

They start rumors like that every year to make FOs believe that "something is in the works". They try to be mysterious about it so that the growth rumors run wild. FOs are less likely to leave that way.

BTW, there is a large seasonal variation in the block hours. They hire and train more this time of year than any other. That way everyone will be out of training by the time the summer flying starts.

Don't get too worked up about this because they do it every year.

Foxcow
01-11-2008, 07:01 AM
I doubt we are getting ATRs. In a conversation with RZ, he flat our said that we aren't going to get ATRs again. If you think about it, how often does RZ make a declaration like that? Never.

WILLTinbound
01-11-2008, 08:56 AM
I would laugh pretty hard to hear that TSA would be getting those ATRs back..

correct me if I'm wrong, but didnt they flat out OWN the ones they used to have? They sold them off to Fed-Ex feeders and a few others. I just think it would be hilarious to see Hulas and company have to bring those same airplanes back on leases instead of just owning them. Talk about doing business the expensive way...

AV8ER
01-11-2008, 12:01 PM
TSA isn't getting ATRs.

ExperimentalAB
01-11-2008, 05:06 PM
TSA isn't getting ATRs.

Or Jets...sorry guys - I've got tons of friends there...and I really think they oughta have moved on long ago.

Zach
01-11-2008, 06:59 PM
Or Jets...sorry guys - I've got tons of friends there...and I really think they oughta have moved on long ago.

Some of them are probably captains now, while you are still in the right seat too.

POPA
01-11-2008, 07:15 PM
Some of them are probably captains now, while you are still in the right seat too.

I would be a captain at TSA now, and I'm far happier in the right seat at CHQ.

AV8ER
01-11-2008, 07:30 PM
Or Jets...sorry guys - I've got tons of friends there...and I really think they oughta have moved on long ago.

Yeah, TSA means no growth.

flynavyj
01-11-2008, 09:21 PM
to leave or not leave TSA = the question with one answer....Eventually....

I have the hope to get out of this place as quickly as possible, it could have been quicker if i jumped ships, but....given what my plans were, leaving would have been a step in the opposite direction....If i'm forced to leave down the line, well...they gave me an ATP and a PIC Type, and i can take that wherever i end up.

flyinaway411
01-11-2008, 10:19 PM
i was in that recurrent class with reeves. when asked what the mins are, EP said "if you think they can pass training." im not gonna sit here and say TSA is getting more flying or more aircraft, because I'm not in a position to say nor do I really care all that much. they are hiring that much for a reason, probably not a good reason, but a reason. on a side note, experimentalAB (whom i went thru initial with) was here for a few months and then jumped ship and should not be criticizing people who didn't, nor should he be speaking on what TSA will/wont be getting, thats just ignorant. people leave/stay for their own reasons. i can tell you that i will be upgrading long before he does, though.

ws

Zach
01-12-2008, 05:26 AM
I would be a captain at TSA now, and I'm far happier in the right seat at CHQ.

Everyone always looks for the good in the choices they have made.

reevesofskyking
01-12-2008, 06:04 AM
There may not be any growth coming.

I enjoy thinking about the possibility of new flying and newer planes.

Just like thinking about what you would do with all your lotto winnings.

they do have n numbers reserved all the way up to 870hk

Granted they been reserved since 2003
Reeves

POPA
01-12-2008, 06:30 AM
Everyone always looks for the good in the choices they have made.

Luckily for me, Junior, there's a lot more of the good at CHQ than there is at TSA.

Pilotpip
01-12-2008, 08:27 AM
POPA isn't the only person I've heard say that Zach. Another used to work with me at Skyline. I've also heard the same comparison with Skywest from another former coworker.

TSA is a turboprop regional flying 50 seaters in a 70 seat world. If it weren't for Mesa's incompetence I'm sure United would be breathing down our necks. Everybody is adding 70 seat flying and getting rid of the 50 seat aircraft. Guess where that flying is going to go.

Management here never thinks things through. The only people they answer to are themselves. The cycle has happened before. They're never going to get additional flying on the condition that they can lease the planes after the contract is signed. Another biggie is things like penalties for on time performance. This is why CHQ got the CO flying and TSA didn't. When that contract fell through they furloughed 60. Within two months they were hiring at 500/50 because nobody came back. They would have saved about $1.5mil by keeping the furloughs on reserve for a couple months rather than having to train a bunch of new FO's.

I've never thought highly of TSA's management. I used them exactly for what I intended to. I got some turbine time and 121 experience out of them so I could move to a regional I want to stay at for a few years. I initially wasn't going to accept an offer for anything but CHQ but after going through the interview process I threw that out the window. Republic is much better organized, much larger and growing. I have no problems commuting for a couple months at Shuttle.

When I turned in my resignation, DH thanked me for actually giving a two week notice. Apparently there are quite a few still leaving however most are just telling scheduling they quit a couple minutes before showtime.

ScaryKite
01-12-2008, 01:26 PM
POPA isn't the only person I've heard say that Zach. Another used to work with me at Skyline. I've also heard the same comparison with Skywest from another former coworker.

TSA is a turboprop regional flying 50 seaters in a 70 seat world. If it weren't for Mesa's incompetence I'm sure United would be breathing down our necks. Everybody is adding 70 seat flying and getting rid of the 50 seat aircraft. Guess where that flying is going to go.

Management here never thinks things through. The only people they answer to are themselves. The cycle has happened before. They're never going to get additional flying on the condition that they can lease the planes after the contract is signed. Another biggie is things like penalties for on time performance. This is why CHQ got the CO flying and TSA didn't. When that contract fell through they furloughed 60. Within two months they were hiring at 500/50 because nobody came back. They would have saved about $1.5mil by keeping the furloughs on reserve for a couple months rather than having to train a bunch of new FO's.

I've never thought highly of TSA's management. I used them exactly for what I intended to. I got some turbine time and 121 experience out of them so I could move to a regional I want to stay at for a few years. I initially wasn't going to accept an offer for anything but CHQ but after going through the interview process I threw that out the window. Republic is much better organized, much larger and growing. I have no problems commuting for a couple months at Shuttle.

When I turned in my resignation, DH thanked me for actually giving a two week notice. Apparently there are quite a few still leaving however most are just telling scheduling they quit a couple minutes before showtime.


totally agree! Hulas and his bunch of cronies are more busy counting beans instead of reading the recipe on how to make bean soup! they would build a 10 million dollar bridge if they heard there was a sack of free quarters on the other side! THey fight Cancer with advil and treat chainsaw wounds with sesame street band-aids! No one in upper management at TSA has more than a high school education and they are in the box thinkers!

They think that just because the same thing has worked for the past twenty years that It will continue to work and its finally biting them in the hind end!

Like you said this is a 70 seat world nowdays and with 100 dollar oil any regional without some "big equipment" ie the the CRJ-7000000 to the second power or the ever so might E- 1triple seventy! Will fall behind over the next 5 to 10 years!

I urge anyone to use TSA to get to the next step and dont even look back! and for everyone employed there i dont have to tell you, get some PIC time and bail for the first "best" offer that comes along! They have used and will continue to use you with malicious intent! Good Riddance hulas! and happy new year Rick L! Im glad that your training costs led to your daughter having to sell her second house in boca raton! You guys are getting what you deserve!

I hope every HK tail number is eventually repainted with a SKYWEST, XJET, AWAC, Pinnacle, CHQ, **insert regional of choice (minus go jet here) paint job! Or just watch them collect cacti out in the dessert! (Scenario two most likely)

Cheers!
SK

freezingflyboy
01-12-2008, 01:47 PM
There may not be any growth coming.

I enjoy thinking about the possibility of new flying and newer planes.

Just like thinking about what you would do with all your lotto winnings.

they do have n numbers reserved all the way up to 870hk

Granted they been reserved since 2003
Reeves

*flashes the grammar police badge*:D

Reeves, you ever try using the space bar after each sentence? I'm not sure where you learned English, but common grammatical practice is to only start a new paragraph when you are starting a new thought or idea. When one sentence flows logically into the next and is along the same line of thought, it's OK to just put a period (or exclamation point or question mark), 2 spaces and then continue on with the next sentence. It's neat how it works. Makes whatever you are writing look cleaner, more concise and like you have a basic grasp of the language. *puts away the grammar police badge*

Also, reserving N-numbers is cheap ($10 each I think?). It is a common practice for airlines to reserve large blocks of N-numbers even when they have no aircraft on order just so that in the future, when aircraft DO come online, they will fit into the current numbering scheme (or incredibly arrogant way Hulas puts his initials on each airplane:rolleyes:) So it basically means bupkiss.

reevesofskyking
01-12-2008, 05:06 PM
*flashes the grammar police badge*:D

Reeves, you ever try using the space bar after each sentence? I'm not sure where you learned English, but common grammatical practice is to only start a new paragraph when you are starting a new thought or idea. When one sentence flows logically into the next and is along the same line of thought, it's OK to just put a period (or exclamation point or question mark), 2 spaces and then continue on with the next sentence. It's neat how it works. Makes whatever you are writing look cleaner, more concise and like you have a basic grasp of the language. *puts away the grammar police badge*

Also, reserving N-numbers is cheap ($10 each I think?). It is a common practice for airlines to reserve large blocks of N-numbers even when they have no aircraft on order just so that in the future, when aircraft DO come online, they will fit into the current numbering scheme (or incredibly arrogant way Hulas puts his initials on each airplane:rolleyes:) So it basically means bupkiss.

Well I am glad you have branded yourself as the grammer police. I have not doubt in my mind that you take pride in that badge.

I am well versed in the english language, and was taught right here in the mindwest public school system. I believe I speak very well, and quite insulted you can determine my level of intellence just by the way I type on some message board. You could not have had anyway of know what circumstances I was typing that message out. I know very well that I hit enter after each thought on the message boards, but that is my style. This is no different than my wearing brown shoes all the time and you wearing black shoes. I just get a little tired of people that always have to pick out someone else mistakes and make them aware of it. I am almost certian that most people that can turn the computer on and able to navigate themselves to this website to post are fully aware that their grammer is not perfect. I am not here interviewing for a job, I am not here to impress, at the end of the day I just do not care that much. I am sure there are some spelling mistakes in this post as well, and I am going to take the time and not spell check, I do not want to strip you of your spelling police badge, that just seems unfair to take that away from you.

You very well may have been joking, and its my bad if I took it the wrong way


As for the N numbers being reserved, I know it means nothing, but I did not know that it is such a low cost to get them.

Reeves

flynavyj
01-12-2008, 05:37 PM
Maybe i'll go reserve a whole bunch of SK ones and sell them back to the highest bidder in the future...hmmm.

Airsupport
01-12-2008, 05:55 PM
*flashes the grammar police badge*:D

Reeves, you ever try using the space bar after each sentence? I'm not sure where you learned English, but common grammatical practice is to only start a new paragraph when you are starting a new thought or idea. When one sentence flows logically into the next and is along the same line of thought, it's OK to just put a period (or exclamation point or question mark), 2 spaces and then continue on with the next sentence. It's neat how it works. Makes whatever you are writing look cleaner, more concise and like you have a basic grasp of the language. *puts away the grammar police badge*

Also, reserving N-numbers is cheap ($10 each I think?). It is a common practice for airlines to reserve large blocks of N-numbers even when they have no aircraft on order just so that in the future, when aircraft DO come online, they will fit into the current numbering scheme (or incredibly arrogant way Hulas puts his initials on each airplane:rolleyes:) So it basically means bupkiss.


*flashes Grammar Police Internal Affairs badge*


We have conducted an internal investigation and review of the above post, and previous posts on this message board by freezingflyboy. After a thorough analysis it is the Grammar Police Internal Affairs (GPIA) responsibility to let you know you are herby removed from duty for writing this critique, and other posts, without delivering perfection yourself. Several mistakes have been found in the aforementioned post(s) and your poor performance as a grammar officer is being called into question. I will need your badge and dictionary on my desk in the morning pending an investigation.

freezingflyboy
01-12-2008, 06:11 PM
Well I am glad you have branded yourself as the grammer police. I have not doubt in my mind that you take pride in that badge.

I am well versed in the english language, and was taught right here in the mindwest public school system. I believe I speak very well, and quite insulted you can determine my level of intellence just by the way I type on some message board. You could not have had anyway of know what circumstances I was typing that message out. I know very well that I hit enter after each thought on the message boards, but that is my style. This is no different than my wearing brown shoes all the time and you wearing black shoes. I just get a little tired of people that always have to pick out someone else mistakes and make them aware of it. I am almost certian that most people that can turn the computer on and able to navigate themselves to this website to post are fully aware that their grammer is not perfect. I am not here interviewing for a job, I am not here to impress, at the end of the day I just do not care that much. I am sure there are some spelling mistakes in this post as well, and I am going to take the time and not spell check, I do not want to strip you of your spelling police badge, that just seems unfair to take that away from you.

You very well may have been joking, and its my bad if I took it the wrong way


As for the N numbers being reserved, I know it means nothing, but I did not know that it is such a low cost to get them.

Reeves

You're right.

It is your bad.

You took it waaaay to seriously.

I was just messing with you. :D

And at no point did I insult your intelligence, just mentioned the impression your writing gives others. Believe me, I know ability to write has little correlation to actual intelligence. I have an uncle who is a brilliant engineer with a large petro-chemical company with many patents and designs to his name but he spells like a first grader. So no hard feelings.

freezingflyboy
01-12-2008, 06:18 PM
*flashes Grammar Police Internal Affairs badge*


We have conducted an internal investigation and review of the above post, and previous posts on this message board by freezingflyboy. After a thorough analysis it is the Grammar Police Internal Affairs (GPIA) responsibility to let you know you are herby removed from duty for writing this critique, and other posts, without delivering perfection yourself. Several mistakes have been found in the aforementioned post(s) and your poor performance as a grammar officer is being called into question. I will need your badge and dictionary on my desk in the morning pending an investigation.

Dammit Internal Affairs! Bunch of stinking rats! You don't want to help, you want to get the rest of us in trouble so that you can make Lieutenant, you think I don't know what you're all about, Airsupport?:D

reevesofskyking
01-12-2008, 07:28 PM
You're right.

It is your bad.

You took it waaaay to seriously.

I was just messing with you. :D

And at no point did I insult your intelligence, just mentioned the impression your writing gives others. Believe me, I know ability to write has little correlation to actual intelligence. I have an uncle who is a brilliant engineer with a large petro-chemical company with many patents and designs to his name but he spells like a first grader. So no hard feelings.

Sorry, Just got up on the wrong side of the day

Reeves

Foxcow
01-12-2008, 07:58 PM
Every time I run into my former co-workers that went to CHQ, 9 out of 10 are kicking themselves because they would be in the left seat already. I was almost one of those guys but I weighed my options and decided to stay because it would be foolish to leave with a years seniority in at the company amongst other things. I'm glad I didn't go.

ScaryKite
01-13-2008, 03:51 AM
Every time I run into my former co-workers that went to CHQ, 9 out of 10 are kicking themselves because they would be in the left seat already. I was almost one of those guys but I weighed my options and decided to stay because it would be foolish to leave with a years seniority in at the company amongst other things. I'm glad I didn't go.


i am much happier beeing in the right seat here at CHQ looking to upgrade in less than a year, than sitting in the left seat at TRans Mistakes getting junior manned, bending over, and flying with a bunch of.....bitter people, dont get me wrong the pilot group at TSA is phenominal but they do a lot of b******* and moaning. oh yeah and flying with people that have wet temporary commercial certificates would be a blasty as well! Yeah hindsight is 20 20 and i sometimes i wish i would have stayed for the "upgrade" at TSA but i would have upgraded there with less than 2000 total, 1 year of 121 experience, 1 icing season, and 1 thunderstorm season. i am glad i am holding out a little bit!

POPA
01-13-2008, 04:39 AM
Every time I run into my former co-workers that went to CHQ, 9 out of 10 are kicking themselves because they would be in the left seat already.

I have yet to meet one person who thinks that way.

Atreyu
01-13-2008, 10:00 AM
i am much happier beeing in the right seat here at CHQ looking to upgrade in less than a year, than sitting in the left seat at TRans Mistakes getting junior manned, bending over, and flying with a bunch of.....bitter people, dont get me wrong the pilot group at TSA is phenominal but they do a lot of b******* and moaning. oh yeah and flying with people that have wet temporary commercial certificates would be a blasty as well! Yeah hindsight is 20 20 and i sometimes i wish i would have stayed for the "upgrade" at TSA but i would have upgraded there with less than 2000 total, 1 year of 121 experience, 1 icing season, and 1 thunderstorm season. i am glad i am holding out a little bit!
This is known as rationalizing.

I commute for this job, but all that matters is I'll be in the March upgrade class. Upgrade took me 15 mos, and only that long because I never flew because I could drop everything with my seniority, and cared only about QOL. In May I had 24 days off, and I always got DFI.

I'd love it if I was at Skywest seeing that I live in Chicago, but who cares? I'll have my upgrade here, get my PIC time, and gtfo. Regionals are for one thing, and one thing only, and that's to get your 121 experience and multi-turbine time. It's just the step after being a CFI to get your total time anyway.

Atreyu
01-13-2008, 10:01 AM
Also, I don't understand why everyone likes to continuously bash TSA by saying that we're the only airline that hires with wet commercials. Mesa does it, I believe comair does it, and so does Eagle.

BYUFlyr
01-13-2008, 10:03 AM
This is known as rationalizing.

I commute for this job, but all that matters is I'll be in the March upgrade class. Upgrade took me 15 mos, and only that long because I never flew because I could drop everything with my seniority, and cared only about QOL. In May I had 24 days off, and I always got DFI.

I'd love it if I was at Skywest seeing that I live in Chicago, but who cares? I'll have my upgrade here, get my PIC time, and gtfo. Regionals are for one thing, and one thing only, and that's to get your 121 experience and multi-turbine time. It's just the step after being a CFI to get your total time anyway.

Agree 100%

Hopefully, I'll upgrade close to the year mark as well since I already have the time.

WILLTinbound
01-13-2008, 10:37 AM
This is known as rationalizing.

I commute for this job, but all that matters is I'll be in the March upgrade class. Upgrade took me 15 mos, and only that long because I never flew because I could drop everything with my seniority, and cared only about QOL. In May I had 24 days off, and I always got DFI.

I'd love it if I was at Skywest seeing that I live in Chicago, but who cares? I'll have my upgrade here, get my PIC time, and gtfo. Regionals are for one thing, and one thing only, and that's to get your 121 experience and multi-turbine time. It's just the step after being a CFI to get your total time anyway.

I'm not going to bash your motives or inspirations, I agree, in the beginning, regionals were never meant to be a career.. some people have decided to make them a career, but those are their personal choices based on what they want out of life (i.e. flying a Brasilia your whole career just so you can be based in San Diego and go surfing every day).

But in light of the recent events, age 65 and industry consolidation (which is apparently on our doorstep), arent you a least a little concerned that you might be stuck at the crappy regional job for longer than you might have anticipated? yeah, you'll have upgraded in 15 months, but if you're still stuck at TSA after 7 or 8 years (like a lot the captains I flew with when I was there) are you still gonna be happy with your QOL? Commuting to fly for Hulas doesnt keep a lot of people happy. We're all on the same page, I wouldve been a captain for Hulas long ago, but I know I'm happier at Skywest and not commuting anymore, left seat or not.. and I dont think I'm rationalizing.. Just wondering if your concerned about something like that.. what happens if you can't just "gtfo" as you so eloquently put it..

ScaryKite
01-13-2008, 11:15 AM
This is known as rationalizing.

I commute for this job, but all that matters is I'll be in the March upgrade class. Upgrade took me 15 mos, and only that long because I never flew because I could drop everything with my seniority, and cared only about QOL. In May I had 24 days off, and I always got DFI.

I'd love it if I was at Skywest seeing that I live in Chicago, but who cares? I'll have my upgrade here, get my PIC time, and gtfo. Regionals are for one thing, and one thing only, and that's to get your 121 experience and multi-turbine time. It's just the step after being a CFI to get your total time anyway.


ok so what is the definition of rationalizing again!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?

AV8ER
01-13-2008, 03:22 PM
But in light of the recent events, age 65 and industry consolidation (which is apparently on our doorstep), arent you a least a little concerned that you might be stuck at the crappy regional job for longer than you might have anticipated? yeah, you'll have upgraded in 15 months, but if you're still stuck at TSA after 7 or 8 years (like a lot the captains I flew with when I was there) are you still gonna be happy with your QOL? Commuting to fly for Hulas doesnt keep a lot of people happy. We're all on the same page, I wouldve been a captain for Hulas long ago, but I know I'm happier at Skywest and not commuting anymore, left seat or not.. and I dont think I'm rationalizing.. Just wondering if your concerned about something like that.. what happens if you can't just "gtfo" as you so eloquently put it..

Yeah, I'm a little concerned about having to be here 8 or 9 years before moving on. But my goal is to be at x, y, or z airline...and as I saw it TSA is the best place to be to get there asap. If it doesn't work out like that, or I get stuck at TSA for a long time, or TSA closes its doors in a few years then so be it. I'm young and I'll have time to recover. All anyone can do is spend some time analyzing their situation and go with what they believe is the best for them and their family.

JayHub
01-13-2008, 03:23 PM
Repost

Some would say "get ur PIC and get out"....but there are many angles.....you have to see what's best for you and your family at the time you're applying.

Many of my buds (both low and high time) don't mind going to a regional that has massive pilot group and a long upgrade because they figure that they're still young and will make it to the majors 'one day' ,and, when they get there still have enough time for at least 30yrs mainline.

Others (both low and high time) who want to get to a major quickly want to go somewhere where they feel they will get a quick upgrade, as a long stint at a regional is not an option for them. With this option many have to trade off pay & QOL

There are so many different opinions floating around on this site, and although i respect all of them, everyone is different, and everyone's situation is different. (If your gonna bash someone for their decision, you better know the whole story)

One person might put up with getting pushed around by his/her company cos he feels obtaining PIC is the golden time,.......well o.k for them....what? I'm supposed to be mad at him/her?..... another might say...'I don't need this $h!t' i'd rather wait it out somewhere else and take longer to get to a major, than stay here'.......again...what? I'm supposed to laugh at them and say 'I'm gonna be in the majors before you?'

again....so many angles and so many opinions....remember though that the one that matters is your's and your family's

on a side note every one of the pilots I've met here have bent over backwards to help out the new hires

just my $0.02

Zach
01-13-2008, 03:30 PM
Like I said earlier, people always look at the positive aspects of their choices. I mean seriously, do you think anyone would come on here and post that they were a moron for the career choices they have made? I wasn't singling out POPA in my previous post, but he took it personally anyway.

AV8ER
01-13-2008, 03:31 PM
Like I said earlier, people always look at the positive aspects of their choices. I mean seriously, do you think anyone would come on here and post that they were a moron for the career choices they have made? I wasn't singling out POPA in my previous post, but he took it personally anyway.

I hope I never have to say that about myself...I'll let you know when I retire.

freezingflyboy
01-13-2008, 03:53 PM
Like I said earlier, people always look at the positive aspects of their choices. I mean seriously, do you think anyone would come on here and post that they were a moron for the career choices they have made? I wasn't singling out POPA in my previous post, but he took it personally anyway.

I'm feel like a moron for getting an aviation degree. Does that count?

flynavyj
01-13-2008, 04:20 PM
almost agree with freezing, feel like a moron for getting that degree? Not 100%, but think the $$ would have been spent better on a different degree? agree 100%. As far as how i feel at TSA...Eh, it's alright. Reserve life sucks, being on the bottom of the list again sucks, knowing the movement towards the top will be much much much slower than it was as an FO sucks. If the industry slows down it does, this job enables me to stick to the plans that i have in front of me, i can't guarantee anything in this industry, just have to make the best decision possible, and go from there.

Jetjock65
01-13-2008, 05:13 PM
Sounds like you guy really have it bad

Foxcow
01-13-2008, 08:01 PM
i am much happier beeing in the right seat here at CHQ looking to upgrade in less than a year, than sitting in the left seat at TRans Mistakes getting junior manned, bending over, and flying with a bunch of.....bitter people, dont get me wrong the pilot group at TSA is phenominal but they do a lot of b******* and moaning. oh yeah and flying with people that have wet temporary commercial certificates would be a blasty as well! Yeah hindsight is 20 20 and i sometimes i wish i would have stayed for the "upgrade" at TSA but i would have upgraded there with less than 2000 total, 1 year of 121 experience, 1 icing season, and 1 thunderstorm season. i am glad i am holding out a little bit!

You know whats funny? I have never been jr-ed. I noticed the people that are the most miserable are the ones that complain the most and will never be happy no matter what.

So life throws you a couple of lemons... make lemonade.

Foxcow
01-13-2008, 08:04 PM
I have yet to meet one person who thinks that way.




I see my former classmates all the time. I almost went to CHQ but I am glad I stayed.


I find it hard to believe that you don't have a single lick of regret for leaving. All of the TSA bashing is getting pretty old as well.

flaps 9
01-13-2008, 09:16 PM
I'll have my upgrade here, get my PIC time, and gtfo. Regionals are for one thing, and one thing only, and that's to get your 121 experience and multi-turbine time. It's just the step after being a CFI to get your total time anyway.


BINGO, we have a winner!!!!

You guys really crack me up. The goal is to get turbine PIC time as soon as possible and move up to the next level.

I know many folks who left Trans States for those "esteemed" regionals such as Eagle, Air Whiskey, ACA, ASA, Comair, and others. A funny thing happened at their "dream" regional. Upgrades weren't quite as quick as they thought, parent companies went chapter 11, codshares were lost and one even went out of business.

I kept in touch will quite a few who left and guess what? they all realized that a REGIONAL is a REGIONAL. They might have made 50 cents more an hour, or had a commuter clause, but the bottom line is these companies are all controlled by the "mothership" and operate basically the same.

Why spend a few extra years working in the minors when you can get qualified sooner if you stayed. This is a seniority based industry and the sooner you get your number at a major, the better you are. With oil around $100 per barrel, age 65 passing and mergers just around the corner you are foolish not to get your time as soon as possible. Trust me being junior at a major is light years better than being at any regional. Don't lose your focus.

I not saying Trans States is the best around, but it is what it is. It's a place to gain experience, build your flight time and help you achieve your goals. Suck it up for a few years, learn you craft and LIVE THE DREAM!!!!

AV8ER
01-14-2008, 06:45 AM
I not saying Trans States is the best around, but it is what it is. It's a place to gain experience, build your flight time and help you achieve your goals. Suck it up for a few years, learn you craft and LIVE THE DREAM!!!!

I agree. But, there is a risk associated with it, and thats getting stuck at TSA for too long. So the question is do you want to take the risk of getting stuck for the chance of getting out faster. I don't think theres a right or wrong answer. It is a personal decision.

Atreyu
01-14-2008, 08:41 AM
I agree. But, there is a risk associated with it, and thats getting stuck at TSA for too long. So the question is do you want to take the risk of getting stuck for the chance of getting out faster. I don't think theres a right or wrong answer. It is a personal decision.

There's a risk at any airline. Why have your resume show that you went thru 121 training at TSA, then 3 mos later your resume show you jumped ship.

So now, you get an interview with united, how do they not know you're not just there for maybe the 737 type then jumpship to southwest who required that? I just think it speaks volumes at an interview about employment at a regional, and showing you leave right after training.

And ya, there's a risk that maybe TSA will lose all the Airways flying, there's a risk we could lose all the United flying, or maybe we'll get sold to a chinese company and we can all get furloughed. If you're not going to take risk, it's hard to get a reward, and as this point, there doesn't seem to be anything that's going to stop my upgrade because our captain attrition is so high.

You made your choice, i made mine, and we all have the same goal that we're looking for at the end.

ExperimentalAB
01-14-2008, 11:51 AM
This is known as rationalizing.

I commute for this job, but all that matters is I'll be in the March upgrade class. Upgrade took me 15 mos, and only that long because I never flew because I could drop everything with my seniority, and cared only about QOL. In May I had 24 days off, and I always got DFI.

I'd love it if I was at Skywest seeing that I live in Chicago, but who cares? I'll have my upgrade here, get my PIC time, and gtfo. Regionals are for one thing, and one thing only, and that's to get your 121 experience and multi-turbine time. It's just the step after being a CFI to get your total time anyway.

Tell that to all the TSA Captains miserable over being stuck there for nearly a decade, clawing to go anywhere, even JetBlue for the E-190...

ExperimentalAB
01-14-2008, 11:54 AM
on a side note, experimentalAB (whom i went thru initial with) was here for a few months and then jumped ship and should not be criticizing people who didn't, nor should he be speaking on what TSA will/wont be getting, thats just ignorant. people leave/stay for their own reasons. i can tell you that i will be upgrading long before he does, though.

ws

And I have every right to try and persuade my friends at TSA to come join me. Just as you have every right to tell your friends to stay...Why pick a fight over something so trivial? And yes, I was long enough a part of TSA to know that they will never see any more growth.

AV8ER
01-14-2008, 02:10 PM
There's a risk at any airline. Why have your resume show that you went thru 121 training at TSA, then 3 mos later your resume show you jumped ship.

So now, you get an interview with united, how do they not know you're not just there for maybe the 737 type then jumpship to southwest who required that? I just think it speaks volumes at an interview about employment at a regional, and showing you leave right after training.

And ya, there's a risk that maybe TSA will lose all the Airways flying, there's a risk we could lose all the United flying, or maybe we'll get sold to a chinese company and we can all get furloughed. If you're not going to take risk, it's hard to get a reward, and as this point, there doesn't seem to be anything that's going to stop my upgrade because our captain attrition is so high.

You made your choice, i made mine, and we all have the same goal that we're looking for at the end.

You're right, no risk equals no or minimal reward. The risk is that getting stuck at TSA would probably be worse then getting stuck at some other places. But like you, I decided its worth it, so I'll be there one year more, or 10 years more, or who knows how long until I get to where I want to be. Thats the plan now I guess...always subject to change.

cfii2007
01-14-2008, 02:30 PM
BINGO, we have a winner!!!!

You guys really crack me up. The goal is to get turbine PIC time as soon as possible and move up to the next level.

I know many folks who left Trans States for those "esteemed" regionals such as Eagle, Air Whiskey, ACA, ASA, Comair, and others. A funny thing happened at their "dream" regional. Upgrades weren't quite as quick as they thought, parent companies went chapter 11, codshares were lost and one even went out of business.

I kept in touch will quite a few who left and guess what? they all realized that a REGIONAL is a REGIONAL. They might have made 50 cents more an hour, or had a commuter clause, but the bottom line is these companies are all controlled by the "mothership" and operate basically the same.

Why spend a few extra years working in the minors when you can get qualified sooner if you stayed. This is a seniority based industry and the sooner you get your number at a major, the better you are. With oil around $100 per barrel, age 65 passing and mergers just around the corner you are foolish not to get your time as soon as possible. Trust me being junior at a major is light years better than being at any regional. Don't lose your focus.

I not saying Trans States is the best around, but it is what it is. It's a place to gain experience, build your flight time and help you achieve your goals. Suck it up for a few years, learn you craft and LIVE THE DREAM!!!!

I think you may have a point....................

flyinaway411
01-14-2008, 03:18 PM
And I have every right to try and persuade my friends at TSA to come join me. Just as you have every right to tell your friends to stay...Why pick a fight over something so trivial? And yes, I was long enough a part of TSA to know that they will never see any more growth.

not trying to pick a fight, but like everyone has said on here, everyone has their OWN reasons. why try and persuade? whats good for you is not necessarily good for someone else. its one thing to give the pro's and con's of being with company A versus company B. its a completely different thing to criticize, and that is not being a friend. and to make predictions in this industry with such arrogant certainty, while you may end up being correct, is still ignorant.

johnso29
01-14-2008, 03:23 PM
Trust me being junior at a major is light years better than being at any regional. Don't lose your focus.



That's a very true statement that I think a lot of people lose sight of. Many start making the better money in the left seat at a regional and think "I don't want to go back to the bottom. I don't want to take the paycut." Now some have unique situations, and I respect that. But if you're don't then get your time and GTFO!

johnso29
01-14-2008, 03:25 PM
I agree. But, there is a risk associated with it,

This entire industry is a risk. Ya gotta be comfortable rolling the dice.

ExperimentalAB
01-14-2008, 03:34 PM
not trying to pick a fight, but like everyone has said on here, everyone has their OWN reasons. why try and persuade? whats good for you is not necessarily good for someone else. its one thing to give the pro's and con's of being with company A versus company B. its a completely different thing to criticize, and that is not being a friend. and to make predictions in this industry with such arrogant certainty, while you may end up being correct, is still ignorant.

When did I criticize?? I don't recall doing so...and I am a good friend. Thanks :D

btw, you don't need a crystal-ball to see how some things, even in this industry, will turn out. I am still grateful to TSA for putting me in a Jet with under 500 hours. That won't change, but I will educate, not preach, to those out there willing to listen.

flyinaway411
01-14-2008, 04:28 PM
I've got tons of friends there...and I really think they oughta have moved on long ago.

there's the criticizm. that year of experience has made you so wise. there is nothing wrong with trying to educate, but "educators" dont offer a biased one-sided opinion to those who haven't been in the industry. they tell facts, and the facts are that QOL, management, training, and aircraft are clearly better elsewhere, but with the quick upgrades at TSA you are likely to get the quality time (121PIC) faster and get out faster than at another regional. That is educating. Again, not trying to pick a fight, just tired of people criticizing other people for making decisions that affect THEIR life, not yours. Unless that person is a GoJetter of course, then rip them all you want.

BINGO, we have a winner!!!!

You guys really crack me up. The goal is to get turbine PIC time as soon as possible and move up to the next level.

I know many folks who left Trans States for those "esteemed" regionals such as Eagle, Air Whiskey, ACA, ASA, Comair, and others. A funny thing happened at their "dream" regional. Upgrades weren't quite as quick as they thought, parent companies went chapter 11, codshares were lost and one even went out of business.

I kept in touch will quite a few who left and guess what? they all realized that a REGIONAL is a REGIONAL. They might have made 50 cents more an hour, or had a commuter clause, but the bottom line is these companies are all controlled by the "mothership" and operate basically the same.

Why spend a few extra years working in the minors when you can get qualified sooner if you stayed. This is a seniority based industry and the sooner you get your number at a major, the better you are. With oil around $100 per barrel, age 65 passing and mergers just around the corner you are foolish not to get your time as soon as possible. Trust me being junior at a major is light years better than being at any regional. Don't lose your focus.

I not saying Trans States is the best around, but it is what it is. It's a place to gain experience, build your flight time and help you achieve your goals. Suck it up for a few years, learn you craft and LIVE THE DREAM!!!!

great post!!

Atreyu
01-14-2008, 08:07 PM
Oh, and many of our captains are continuously leaving to Continental, United, jet blue, some even to southwest. many don't leave because they didn't get hired because of not getting thru the interview, or didn't wanna go because they're holding out for a specific job, OR they can't leave because of their families.

You guys talk to a couple bitter captains at TSA, and you think it's the outlook of the entire pilot group here. So many people you just talk to and laugh in the back of your head. If I wanted to, I could just grit my teeth when i upgrade in the next couple of months, get my 1000 hours PIC, then go jump ship to another regional if it comes to that, and why not? The only reason why anyone comes to the regionals isn't the awesome 6 leg 5 hour block days, or the 15 hour reserve duty days, it's the Magical (like losing your virginity to Heidi Klum) 1000 Hours of Multi-Engine Turbine PIC. THAT'S IT.

You're all so happy that you get to spend another year not in the right seat of the major of your dreams, but instead at the nicer regional where you'd be happy to spend 20 years with. A company like Trans States wants you to get off you butt to look for a major anyway, the same way Mesa does.

flynavyj
01-14-2008, 08:28 PM
honestly, my favorite is when people express how they didn't like flying with bitter angry captains....

i get the joy of flying with my favorite captain every single day.

AirWillie
01-16-2008, 07:56 PM
I got hired by Eagle ORD and TSA, where would you go? I'll be commuting. Was not really impressed by TSA but the ATP min + 500 in type required to upgrade sounds really tempting. Eagle is obviously a way better airline but it seems too good with long upgrades. Not really impressed by TSA embs, seemed old, and the crews were not enthusiastic. The voice in the back of my head says to stay away from TSA what do you think?

flyinaway411
01-16-2008, 09:15 PM
well i have a friend at eagle (for 2 yrs now) and he's thinking about coming here. that should say something for their upgrade times. do whats best for your circumstances. but you'll probably be at eagle waiting to go to a major longer than you would at tsa. thats not most peoples goal.

ExperimentalAB
01-16-2008, 09:22 PM
Or go to Eagle, get some time and come to SKW...bases all over the Country, including ORD. Congrats, btw!

AirWillie
01-16-2008, 09:26 PM
They said they're hiring for attrition, what happens when majors reduce hiring? They didn't mention any growth other than the normal summer flying. How is reserve right now in STL or RIC?

ExperimentalAB
01-16-2008, 09:30 PM
When the majors stop hiring, it won't matter for those at TSA. Why? Because it's not Captain attrition that they are hiring for, it's First Officer attrition. That might tell you something. Sure, the lowered-mins have kept many around that may have otherwise left. And out of fairness for my friends there, TSA wasn't the worst place I can imagine being...works for some and doesn't work for many others. Choose wisely!

flyinaway411
01-16-2008, 09:35 PM
Or go to Eagle, get some time and come to SKW...bases all over the Country, including ORD. Congrats, btw!

yeah if you want to go through training over and over. :confused:

reserve at tsa really sucks, but you shouldnt be on it for more than 2 or three months. dont know about eagle. and tsa doesn't think before they act, so who knows what will happen if the majors slow down hiring. and it is CAPTAIN attrition that they are hiring for. there are not nearly as many fo's leaving as there used to be because of the low upgrade time. it takes someone that actually still works here to know that though.

ExperimentalAB
01-16-2008, 09:41 PM
Take it from one who knows - training at other carriers is not the nightmare it was/is at TSA.

And TSA's FO attrition is still through the roof - slower, yes, but second higher only to Mesa I am sure. I still talk to friends there.

flyinaway411
01-16-2008, 09:48 PM
i guess some people just know everything

ExperimentalAB
01-16-2008, 09:49 PM
i guess some people just know everything

Maybe some people do...but I certainly don't. My advice is worth what you pay for it. I'm just some guy that's been around for a little longer than some others...

flyinaway411
01-16-2008, 09:57 PM
let me be more specific, experimentalAB knows everything. and no, your some guy who THINKS he's been around a little longer than everyone else. so yes, your advice, and especially criticism, is worthless. you underestimate your influence on people just coming into this industry, and its not right that you aren't factual. it is unfair to those who seek answers.

ExperimentalAB
01-16-2008, 10:06 PM
let me be more specific, experimentalAB knows everything. and no, your some guy who THINKS he's been around a little longer than everyone else. so yes, your advice, and especially criticism, is worthless. you underestimate your influence on people just coming into this industry, and its not right that you aren't factual. it is unfair to those who seek answers.

Gotcha! I should just crawl into a little cave and never speak a word of Aviation ever, ever again!! I'm sorry you may not like everything that I say about your Airline (as if it wasn't mine at one time, too!). Overall, I think I've been mostly fair in my posts...at least as fair as you taking to the streets and praising the wonderful Airline that Trans States is :rolleyes:...But this ****ing-contest is over. If somebody asks me what my experience there was, I will more than happy to share. If they ask me what I think about having jumped-ship, again, more than happy to oblige! Thank you sir...:)

flyinaway411
01-16-2008, 10:13 PM
i think ive been quite fair in not praising TSA AT ALL!! ive stated what the facts are, and i didn't suggest you never post again. just post facts that are not so damn biased so people can make decisions on their own. what is so difficult about that? license plate should read IMAKNOWITALL

ExperimentalAB
01-16-2008, 10:16 PM
i think ive been quite fair in not praising TSA AT ALL!! ive stated what the facts are, and i didn't suggest you never post again. just post facts that are not so damn biased so people can make decisions on their own. what is so difficult about that? license plate should read IMAKNOWITALL

I've got to hand it to you...now that was funny LoL

Of course, I'll always try to be more fair from now...and I apologize to any I've misguided if I wasn't ;)

Foxcow
01-17-2008, 07:23 AM
Take it from one who knows - training at other carriers is not the nightmare it was/is at TSA.

And TSA's FO attrition is still through the roof - slower, yes, but second higher only to Mesa I am sure. I still talk to friends there.



A nightmare? If you study and pay attention, no problemo.

Anyways, FO attrition is nowhere near what you are suggesting it is. There are a lot of real low timers that are staying because they either can't really go elsewhere with their time or TSA works for them. Also, CAs continue to leave for greener pastures hence the continued upgrades.

flyinaway411
01-17-2008, 07:28 AM
A nightmare? If you study and pay attention, no problemo.

Anyways, FO attrition is nowhere near what you are suggesting it is. There are a lot of real low timers that are staying because they either can't really go elsewhere with their time or TSA works for them. Also, CAs continue to leave for greener pastures hence the continued upgrades.

thanx for proving my point

AV8ER
01-17-2008, 07:30 AM
I got hired by Eagle ORD and TSA, where would you go? I'll be commuting. Was not really impressed by TSA but the ATP min + 500 in type required to upgrade sounds really tempting. Eagle is obviously a way better airline but it seems too good with long upgrades. Not really impressed by TSA embs, seemed old, and the crews were not enthusiastic. The voice in the back of my head says to stay away from TSA what do you think?

TSA has worked for me...no commute and fast upgrade. That was my goal and its worked so far. Just decide what your long term goal is. If you're not in a rush, go to Eagle. My friends there are happy, except for the long sit as an FO. The planes are old and dirty, but I wouldn't base your decision on that. Good luck in your decision.

POPA
01-17-2008, 08:18 AM
This is the last I'll say on this subject. Take it how you want.

I certainly can't speak with any authority on the current state of affairs at TSA. Most of the people I knew over there have left for another company (whether through furlough or of their own doing), and I certainly don't put much faith in what I read on these boards. My decision to leave TSA was based on what life was like when I left (which, by the way, was before a lot of you were hired there). Lots of things have changed since I turned in my resignation (including the upgrade mins).
Sure, I'd rather be collecting a CA's paycheck. Anybody who says they enjoy living on a first-year FO's salary (I'm in year two of that) is pulling your chain. If I were willing to plan my career on getting 1000 TPIC and getting out, I probably would have stayed at TSA. However, I'm not going to do that. I plan on being at a regional for at least five or six years, and I'd rather do that at CHQ than at TSA. I only gave up seven months of seniority when I left TSA, and that will be more than made up over the next four years.
I really do hope you guys upgrade at 1 year, get your 1000 PIC, and get out. I may think you're making a bad move, but that doesn't mean I hope you get hosed. I certainly don't harbor any ill will towards TSA. I liked the crews I flew with, and I learned how to really fly the Jungle Jet.
My only other piece of advice is to call in sick if you ever have to fly with FlyNavy. I heard he likes to do coupled approaches.

Zach
01-17-2008, 09:51 AM
For those thinking FO's are leaving, I have only moved up 8-9 spots per month for the last few months, and that was because that was how many FO's were upgrading that month. Only a handful at the most of FO's have left in the last several months.

ExperimentalAB
01-17-2008, 10:15 AM
For those thinking FO's are leaving, I have only moved up 8-9 spots per month for the last few months, and that was because that was how many FO's were upgrading that month. Only a handful at the most of FO's have left in the last several months.

Thanks for good numbers...!

GolfKilo
01-17-2008, 10:24 AM
Commuting from ORD is possible. There are quite a few here that do it. We have hourly flights both ways on the UAL side. AA has a ton of flights too. Commuting to/from ORD can be a nightmare though. A canary farts and there's a two hour delay. TSA has no commuter clause. You may want to think about MDW too.

The training here is very hard. Lots of info, really fast with no additional resources and nobody gives a **** if you get it or not. As far as difficulty, all of it. Especially if you're going from that PA-28 to a jet. There's a little bit of a learning curve and 8 sim sessions are all you have.

Recent upgrades have been here about a year. However there is no growth, and all upgrades have been for attrition. Lots of guys in the SWA pool and going to JetBlue and Continental. However none of them are hiring nearly as many in 08 and you have a ton of guys in the left seat without much PIC. It will not stay that low. We're very fat on captains right now due to expected attrition. However that, and the fact that a bunch of US flying has been cut in RIC make me think that if you're in the lower half of seniority you will be in the right seat for quite a while.

I don't know how low the time is for interviews. We're well staffed right now so they will probably have higher standards.

Do yourself a favor, instruct, gain experience and go somewhere better in a year.


Canary farts? Did anyone tell the FAA that is the basis of all their system woes? :))

Time2Fly
01-17-2008, 03:02 PM
Slightly off subject.. Does anyone know of any crash pads in STL?

btwissel
01-17-2008, 07:52 PM
Slightly off subject.. Does anyone know of any crash pads in STL?
pilot projects is a good one. spent about 7 months there with TSA. little expensive compared to others, bit you'll never hot rack or have 4 roommates

stlcrashpad.com (http://stlcrashpad.com)

cbram
01-17-2008, 09:49 PM
im in the middle of training right now, just finishing up systems at another regional. i was thinking about going to eagle or tsa then jumping to skywest but im glad i went with asa. theres now way in he!! i want to go through another training program anytime soon, no way, no how, not for a looooooooooooooooooooooong time. (period). no way.


the thought of it sends chills down my spine.

JayHub
01-17-2008, 10:02 PM
I haven't been here long but only one person out of the Dec class and the Jan class combined has washed out. If your willing to work and study hard training shouldn't be a problem,......unless you are positive, focused, self-disciplined, motivated etc. I wouldn't apply. They told us that they were not going to lower the bar to 'get us through'. There are a few guys on APC that don't know what the hell they're talking about. If anyone wants unbiased info PM me.

Atreyu
01-17-2008, 11:37 PM
i guess some people just know everything
that's actually something i've seen on this board in the past 6 mos. People like him, and Toiletduck for SURE are people who are like "listen man, i just finished IOE 3 mos ago, i've been around the regionals for a while, and MY AIRLINE IS THE WAY TO GO!"

TSA is really bottom of the barrel on work rules, no doubt. But it's not as bad as Mesa or Go Jets.

And as much as I love skywest, they voted out ALPA to help management, and as thanks, they're getting an .11 pay raise. Seriously? Management is always out to help themselves the most.

Go to ANY REGIONAL you can get the FASTEST UPGRADE.

Unless you wanna become a lifer, then go to Skywest or Chataqua

ScaryKite
01-18-2008, 09:11 AM
that's actually something i've seen on this board in the past 6 mos. People like him, and Toiletduck for SURE are people who are like "listen man, i just finished IOE 3 mos ago, i've been around the regionals for a while, and MY AIRLINE IS THE WAY TO GO!"

TSA is really bottom of the barrel on work rules, no doubt. But it's not as bad as Mesa or Go Jets.

And as much as I love skywest, they voted out ALPA to help management, and as thanks, they're getting an .11 pay raise. Seriously? Management is always out to help themselves the most.

Go to ANY REGIONAL you can get the FASTEST UPGRADE.

Unless you wanna become a lifer, then go to Skywest or Chataqua


not everyone at Skywest or Chautauqua wants to be lifer, there are some, but our attrition at CHQ is a steady 20-30 a month! Like POPA said, and i have said on other posts, just cause you get that coveted 1000 Turbine PIC doesnt mean your going to be in the next class at the major of your choice! You never know whats going to happen in this industry and you might get "stuck" at a regional for 5-10 years. Might as well be relatively stable company, i know that when i upgrade and get some PIC time i wont be taking the first job that comes along. So i might be at a regional for a while waiting. Im glad to be based at home with a "good" company. I do agree with you that skywests pay increase is a slap in the face! They have a jillion dollars in the bank! Come on!!!

SK

Shrek
01-18-2008, 11:23 AM
Skywest pilots only have to look in the mirror - when looking to place blame.

.11 cents.........priceless.

Pilotpip
01-18-2008, 12:20 PM
The decision ultimately comes down to what you think is best for you. If you think TSA is best for you, great. Stay.

I've thrown bags there, interned there, and I've been around there a lot longer than my 6 months as a pilot. I knew from the beginning that I didn't want to stay. Moving up 6 or 7 per month isn't going very far when there are 100 above you. Sooner or later TSA will have a very junior captain group aside from the lifers. At that point the upgrades will stagnate. Worse yet, if they don't get this flying they're rumored to get, movement will probably go backwards. If you don't think this cycle has happened before, ask anybody that was here back when we had jetstream flying out of JFK. They'll dangle the quick upgrade carrot and the potential of adding flying, not get it, and furlough or have no movement. It's happened multiple times.

Everything is a risk in this industry. Nothing will stay as it is. I'm banking on the upgrades not staying as fast as they are. If they do, tough, I'm where I want to be.

AV8ER
01-18-2008, 01:37 PM
. Worse yet, if they don't get this flying they're rumored to get, movement will probably go backwards.

Huh? What rumors? Rumors? TSA getting flying? Kind of like the ATR's...

AV8ER
01-18-2008, 01:41 PM
not everyone at Skywest or Chautauqua wants to be lifer, there are some, but our attrition at CHQ is a steady 20-30 a month! Like POPA said, and i have said on other posts, just cause you get that coveted 1000 Turbine PIC doesnt mean your going to be in the next class at the major of your choice! You never know whats going to happen in this industry and you might get "stuck" at a regional for 5-10 years. Might as well be relatively stable company, i know that when i upgrade and get some PIC time i wont be taking the first job that comes along. So i might be at a regional for a while waiting. Im glad to be based at home with a "good" company. I do agree with you that skywests pay increase is a slap in the face! They have a jillion dollars in the bank! Come on!!!

SK

So SK...if you used to be at TSA, and now you're not...does that mean we'll slowly see the Grizzly stickers disappear from the yokes? Or is that someone else?

ScaryKite
01-18-2008, 02:06 PM
So SK...if you used to be at TSA, and now you're not...does that mean we'll slowly see the Grizzly stickers disappear from the yokes? Or is that someone else?


i havent been at TSA since March of 07 and I never put a sticker on one yoke! Now I have put two grizzly stickers into circulation here at chautauqua, but thats only when I dont have a good chuck norris quip!

POPA
01-18-2008, 03:16 PM
i havent been at TSA since March of 07 and I never put a sticker on one yoke! Now I have put two grizzly stickers into circulation here at chautauqua, but thats only when I dont have a good chuck norris quip!

I wondered who was leaving those! I recently found the one regarding Chuck and Lance McOneBall.

ScaryKite
01-18-2008, 04:08 PM
I wondered who was leaving those! I recently found the one regarding Chuck and Lance McOneBall.


I've got some good ones coming up! Did you know that they tried to put chuck norris's face on Mt. Rushmore.......but they couldn't do it, the granite wasnt hard enough for his beard!

ExperimentalAB
01-18-2008, 05:23 PM
that's actually something i've seen on this board in the past 6 mos. People like him, and Toiletduck for SURE are people who are like "listen man, i just finished IOE 3 mos ago, i've been around the regionals for a while, and MY AIRLINE IS THE WAY TO GO!"

Curious how long you've been around, Pops...

IOE plus three months? Is that what you call half a dozen years in the Industry, working for four different carriers (three regionals as well as a major international operation), and an Airport cleaning company in every capacity from third-shift terminal cleanup, "smurf" crew, ramp, operations, ticketing, check-in, first-class lounge, gate, and Pilot?

I've said it several times that my advice on these forums is worth exactly what you pay for it. As is yours, as is anybody else's. And you can take it to the bank that if I have something to contribute on these forums, you'll read it...

Atreyu
01-18-2008, 11:26 PM
Curious how long you've been around, Pops...

IOE plus three months? Is that what you call half a dozen years in the Industry, working for four different carriers (three regionals as well as a major international operation), and an Airport cleaning company in every capacity from third-shift terminal cleanup, "smurf" crew, ramp, operations, ticketing, check-in, first-class lounge, gate, and Pilot?

I've said it several times that my advice on these forums is worth exactly what you pay for it. As is yours, as is anybody else's. And you can take it to the bank that if I have something to contribute on these forums, you'll read it...
never did i once say that i've been around the airline industry for long. I just said that it's ridiculous how people jump ship, and now they're happier now because they're SOO HAPPY that they get to sit reserve again at another regional making less than they would have been at TSA

But they're cool with that because 2nd year pay is higher than TSA...but at this point, 2nd year pay at TSA for an FO is actually captain pay because upgrade is at 11 months

WILLTinbound
01-19-2008, 12:55 AM
haha, man, I never would have guessed this thread would make it to 12+ pages... if I was a betting man, I wouldve lost this bet, big time.. I cant believe this is still going on...

wmarti31
01-19-2008, 08:13 AM
Also, I don't understand why everyone likes to continuously bash TSA by saying that we're the only airline that hires with wet commercials. Mesa does it, I believe comair does it, and so does Eagle.
...and Piedmont, Great Lakes...

flynavyj
01-19-2008, 08:30 AM
and because a guy with a wet commercial goes to TSA, then gets the covetted 100 hrs of jet time, he no longer is a wet commercial, so that'll rule out chautauqua.....right :rolleyes:

Topics on TSA always seem to go on for a while, because there are some opinionated people on both sides of the arena. The truth of the matter, nothing we say on here really makes any of the companies steller nor inadequate, infact, most of them suck.

Atreyu
01-19-2008, 09:57 AM
and because a guy with a wet commercial goes to TSA, then gets the covetted 100 hrs of jet time, he no longer is a wet commercial, so that'll rule out chautauqua.....right :rolleyes:

Topics on TSA always seem to go on for a while, because there are some opinionated people on both sides of the arena. The truth of the matter, nothing we say on here really makes any of the companies steller nor inadequate, infact, most of them suck.

Seriously. They come to TSA with 250/25, and sit reserve for 3 or 4 months, fly 150 hours, and they're off to expressjet or chataqua as much, MUCH more experience pilots

ExperimentalAB
01-19-2008, 11:07 AM
never did i once say that i've been around the airline industry for long. I just said that it's ridiculous how people jump ship, and now they're happier now because they're SOO HAPPY that they get to sit reserve again at another regional making less than they would have been at TSA

But they're cool with that because 2nd year pay is higher than TSA...but at this point, 2nd year pay at TSA for an FO is actually captain pay because upgrade is at 11 months

I understand that...if I were to have left for another carrier just to sit reserve, I would probably have been better off sticking it out at Trans States. Also, if I had stuck around for any longer, I might as well have just stayed. For me, my move made sense for what I wanted, and now I couldn't be happier. Regardless of what anybody here says, just like any other life-changing decision, jumping-ship is never an easy one. I took the gamble and rolled the dice...many of my friends didn't and I have never faulted them for it (though I have been guilty of rubbing in a 24hr SFO overnight :D LoL).

ExperimentalAB
01-19-2008, 11:09 AM
Seriously. They come to TSA with 250/25, and sit reserve for 3 or 4 months, fly 150 hours, and they're off to expressjet or chataqua as much, MUCH more experience pilots

Experienced in life or flying in general, certainly not...but experienced in 121 operations, yes - and that makes a world of difference for a new-hire.

Pokerpilot
01-20-2008, 09:09 AM
First, this is a forum which is defined as a public meeting place for open discussion and a medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website. We all take what we can, and dispose of information that does not apply.

I work at Trans States Airlines. I was in the same class as ExperimentalAB. We all studied hard and we played hard, nevertheless, we made it thru training. Training is training just like any training you attend and if you put in work; you will make it.

QOL – It all depends on you and what you consider quality. That’s that for me.

People complain about calling in sick. If you are sick you are sick. But do not abuse the system, and keep in mind this is a business. I called in sick during my probation year and I had the paper work to defend myself if management came knocking and they never did. I flew with a captain that called in fatigue and we were so tired I could not recall my own name. The result, we got extra rest, lost 2 legs of flying and I haven’t heard anything yet from management.

Miserable Captain comments, I have yet to meet one lately that is complaining. Most of the captains know they can leave if they choose to anytime. I understand some can’t because September 11th killed their dreams. I feel for you guys, I really do.

Current upgrade: 12 to 13 months if you include training about 15 months by the time you hit the line. We have a few guys from the Dec 2006 class that are upgrading. Guys please call me and keep me updated I will be joining you guys someday. GOOD LUCK. I have to agree it will be slowing down soon so take it if you want it, and keep it if you need it. P/S if you are senior to me, why are you not upgrading. I need to move into the top 5 spot soon because I have been in the top ten for too long. I kid, I kid.

I will now respond to some of the post that got my attention. I do not intend to offend anyone or rain juice in any ones coffee!!!!!!! Thanks

ExperimentalAB wrote: Tell that to all the TSA Captains miserable over being stuck there for nearly a decade, clawing to go anywhere, even JetBlue for the E-190………….Me Say: I guess only miserable TSA captains take the JetBlue E190.

AirWillie wrote: Not really impressed by TSA embs, seemed old, and the crews were not enthusiastic. The voice in the back of my head says to stay away from TSA what do you think? Me Say: TSA EMBs are old, so is any EMB you can find today in the Market. Crews were not enthusiastic; I wouldn’t if it’s the last day of a 4 day and I need food, drink and sex. You were hanging with the wrong crew, my bro. The voice in the back of my head tells me to hang myself for changing career and picking aviation. Always follow the voice:), I kid.

ExperimentalAB wrote: When the majors stop hiring, it won't matter for those at TSA. Why? Because it's not Captain attrition that they are hiring for, it's First Officer attrition. That might tell you something. Me Say: Research my brother from another mother, Research.

AV8ER wrote: TSA has worked for me...no commute and fast upgrade… Me Say: That’s why I will be moving my family once I upgrade. Check this out, I found a 3 bedroom for $250 less than my current 2 bedroom? Nice part of town with white folks, good lord am moving in next to white folks. I kid, I kid but it’s true.

Time2Fly wrote: Slightly off subject.. Does anyone know of any crash pads in STL? Me Say: I have one in RIC if you are interested. I offer breakfast daily and free brewskies on Wednesdays/Sundays, and company 12 hour rules apply, that was slightly off subject I am sorry.

Pilotpip wrote: The decision ultimately comes down to what you think is best for you. If you think TSA is best for you, great. Stay.
I've thrown bags there, interned there, and I've been around there a lot longer than my 6 months as a pilot. Me Say: I agree with you I made the decision and it’s working for me. I wish everyone could think this way. Nevertheless, I think you broke my laptop while you were throwing bags. I kid, I kid. I enjoy reading your comments.

ScaryKite wrote: i havent been at TSA since March of 07 and I never put a sticker on one yoke! Me Say: Someone is doing it and management is still blaming you for it. You know management at TSA. I kid, I kid. Good to know it was not you, crap we have to start changing the story when we tell it to new F/O and FA; we will blame it on ExperimentalAB from now on.

ExperimentalAB wrote: I took the gamble and rolled the dice...many of my friends didn't and I have never faulted them for it (though I have been guilty of rubbing in a 24hr SFO overnight LoL). Me Say: You know am one of them. Hell, you need to stop rubbing your 24hr in SFO. Guess what, I have 2 for you this month.

SA **** RIC-PIT
SA **** PIT-STL
SA **** STL-PIT - PIT 2647 - Baby Almost 27 Hours in PIT. I have stories for you, son.
D-END: 1313L (NR 900) REPT: 1600L HYATT AIRPORT
SU **** PIT-EWR
SU **** EWR-PIT
SU **** PIT-BDL - BDL 1615
D-END: 2240L (NR 900) REPT: 1455L
-----------------------------------------------------------
SA **** ORD-SBN
SA **** SBN-ORD
SA **** ORD-CVG
SA **** CVG-IAD
SA **** IAD-LIT - LIT 1231
D-END: 1914L (NR 900) REPT: 0745L
SU **** LIT-DEN - EMB DEN 2416 - Now, That is some Ski time, Echo Mountain or Love Land.
D-END: 1004L (NR 900) REPT: 1020L

I know at SkyWest or other regional this is a normal schedule, but at Trans States Airlines it is like finding Kryptonite.

Folks, I enjoy reading your comments about Trans States Airlines, but I have to go get lunch. Finally, I have enough per diem on this trip for a good steak lunch.

Good Day All,
Pokerpilot, the risk taker A.K.A Uno Cuatro Cinco

Killer51883
01-20-2008, 09:21 AM
nice 27 hours in pit make sure you stop at pirmantis and have an arn