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CRJammin
09-03-2008, 09:56 PM
Ran into a pilot who just quit Cathay Pacific last year. He said the culture is very nasty, with a negative work and training environment, and flying mostly with pompous captains. And that being an American is a huge negative amongst the Aussies and Brits. I'm thinking about CP as a career option, so I was needless to say disturbed by hearing this. Was this guy's view valid or not? Thanks!


BoredwLife
09-03-2008, 10:06 PM
The way I understand it is that at one time there was a HUGE prejudice against American pilots. I've been told, however, that currently it is no longer and issue. Many Americans go over with the attitude that USA is the only way and is the greatest place and everything else is beneath them. You need to remember that the company talks there and if develop a bad reputation you will carry that with you every time you fly.

ryguy
09-03-2008, 11:40 PM
Not true for the most part. Sure there is some banter but I sling it back. Two sides to every story. You never know why the guy left or if he was asked to leave. I'm an American at CX and I have yet to see this attitude that is rumored to be there.


nathanexplosion
09-05-2008, 01:01 PM
I can give you my personal experience, but keep in mind it's just my opionion.

I started at CX as a DEFO thinking I had reached my career company. Two years later I was quite happy to leave. I never failed an RT/PC or a line check (all three legs of it), but in my OPINION it's a very unpleasant airline culture generally speaking. Checking and training are particularly unpleasant.

Your CX experience depends largely on who you have for your checks and training. If you luck out and get good guys (or manage your sick calls effectively), it's OK. If you draw a short straw and get someone notorious, the ramifications can be far-reaching.

There was a lot of anti-americanism when I was there, but I've heard it's been dialed back. A direct quote from the B744 program manager when I received my RPIC (Relief Pilot in Command) checkout, "You North Americans do fine between Anchorage and Hong Kong, but when you come to the pax fleet, the wheels fall off."

At the end of the day, no airline is perfect. You just have to decide what you want to put up with and what you don't. For me, I didn't want to spend a career dealing with CX's particular brand of bullsh!t. Which really means they weren't paying me enough to ignore it ;)

ryguy
09-05-2008, 01:26 PM
I can give you my personal experience, but keep in mind it's just my opionion.

I started at CX as a DEFO thinking I had reached my career company. Two years later I was quite happy to leave. I never failed an RT/PC or a line check (all three legs of it), but in my OPINION it's a very unpleasant airline culture generally speaking. Checking and training are particularly unpleasant.

Your CX experience depends largely on who you have for your checks and training. If you luck out and get good guys (or manage your sick calls effectively), it's OK. If you draw a short straw and get someone notorious, the ramifications can be far-reaching.

There was a lot of anti-americanism when I was there, but I've heard it's been dialed back. A direct quote from the B744 program manager when I received my RPIC (Relief Pilot in Command) checkout, "You North Americans do fine between Anchorage and Hong Kong, but when you come to the pax fleet, the wheels fall off."

At the end of the day, no airline is perfect. You just have to decide what you want to put up with and what you don't. For me, I didn't want to spend a career dealing with CX's particular brand of bullsh!t. Which really means they weren't paying me enough to ignore it ;)


I have no doubt that is your experience. I had several of the names out there and can say they have definitely been toned down. There is a very big effort coming from the top trying to reign those particular people in. So far that effort has been successful, especially since the all mighty HKG Captains have been flying the freighter in N. America. I think many of them have been humbled a bit since they have as hard of a time understanding ATL center as we do Taipei.

The good thing is now the effort has been made official and some of the old hats have been removed from their positions. Hopefully you moved on to something that is a better fit. CX isn't for everyone but thankfully it is changing from your experience.

SuperLolo
09-06-2008, 10:52 AM
Ry/Nate.

Can you tell us about:

What does it take to be "suitable" for ugrade? As I understand, you have to be Cat A'd to upgrade. What if you are Cat B or worse C?

Is it true that you have to go through an interview to upgrade?

What is the star chamber?

ERAS?

CRJammin
09-06-2008, 12:29 PM
Thanks for the replies, Ry and Nathan. It's good to hear.

I would be using CP as a jumping off point to UPS (since they love hiring ex CP F/O's), but while there it would be cool to be in a relaxed and professional culture.

ryguy
09-06-2008, 06:43 PM
Thanks for the replies, Ry and Nathan. It's good to hear.

I would be using CP as a jumping off point to UPS (since they love hiring ex CP F/O's), but while there it would be cool to be in a relaxed and professional culture.

I'm going to go ahead and suggest you don't advertise that too much. Leaving because you are unhappy is one thing, coming with the intention of leaving is another. All that does is waste a training slot that someone else could use, like a guy trying to get back to LAX from HKG. The company is extremely sensitive to this right now. CX is not a contract job. Like I said, if you come and don't like the place then no worries. Coming to intentionally use the company and then screw them over is another. You end up messing up the reputation for guys from the U.S. and giving us all a bad name.

ryguy
09-06-2008, 06:52 PM
Ry/Nate.

Can you tell us about:

What does it take to be "suitable" for ugrade? As I understand, you have to be Cat A'd to upgrade. What if you are Cat B or worse C?

Is it true that you have to go through an interview to upgrade?

What is the star chamber?

ERAS?

I'm not sure what it takes to be suitable for upgrade. You do something called a PCA, which is a sim and a sit down. They are looking for company precedure and knowledge etc. as well as command potential. The reason thay give is that if they don't think you'll make it then it is best to know before you get half way through. That's the reason and explanation they gave us. That said there are several Americans that are CAT A waiting on a class date.

I know the SOs go through an interview to move to FO as well but it is nothing to worry about from what I understand.

The star chamber is a group of training managers that meets to go over the upgrade training history and previous history. If you pass everything else they can still bounce you back based on something in your training. This is one of the things the new blood is trying to tame down.

ERAS is no longer used, it has been replaced with another similar system. After every training event you can view your comments and file online so you know what's in it. They are just like the training records at any other outfit except here we can actually look at it anytime we want.

Hope that answered your questions!

LeftWing
09-06-2008, 11:28 PM
I'm going to go ahead and suggest you don't advertise that too much. Leaving because you are unhappy is one thing, coming with the intention of leaving is another. All that does is waste a training slot that someone else could use, like a guy trying to get back to LAX from HKG. The company is extremely sensitive to this right now. CX is not a contract job. Like I said, if you come and don't like the place then no worries. Coming to intentionally use the company and then screw them over is another. You end up messing up the reputation for guys from the U.S. and giving us all a bad name.

There isn't anything wrong with using CP (or any company) as a stepping stone and it most certainly isn't screwing the company. Why do you think a training slot is wasted when one has to go through recurrent anyway? Let's just say it is a "wasted slot", what difference does the reason make?

If your philosophy is correct, then every time a pilot leaves an airline for another that is more desirable to them, then they're screwing their employer just because their intention was using them as a stepping stone in the first place. Do you think many new-hires at Comair intend to stay for life? Sorry. That doesn't makes sense.

Unless some contractual obligation has been broken, nobody is getting screwed.

4everFO
09-07-2008, 06:24 AM
I'm not sure what it takes to be suitable for upgrade. You do something called a PCA, which is a sim and a sit down.



There is no sim, the PCA is a hour and a half interview, consisting of mostly situational/scenario based questions. SO upgrade interview consists of more technical type questions (limits, fuel policy, etc).

FO

ryguy
09-07-2008, 11:04 AM
There is no sim, the PCA is a hour and a half interview, consisting of mostly situational/scenario based questions. SO upgrade interview consists of more technical type questions (limits, fuel policy, etc).

FO

I stand corrected, I was under the impression there was a sim involved as that was what I had been told previosuly.

Thanks

EK Birdcage
09-07-2008, 11:10 AM
Just remember, the Brits and the Aussies invented flying..(on the same day I guess!) If you were confused about that, just ask them!

Wright brothers who??

ryguy
09-07-2008, 11:16 AM
There isn't anything wrong with using CP (or any company) as a stepping stone and it most certainly isn't screwing the company. Why do you think a training slot is wasted when one has to go through recurrent anyway? Let's just say it is a "wasted slot", what difference does the reason make?

If your philosophy is correct, then every time a pilot leaves an airline for another that is more desirable to them, then they're screwing their employer just because their intention was using them as a stepping stone in the first place. Do you think many new-hires at Comair intend to stay for life? Sorry. That doesn't makes sense.

Unless some contractual obligation has been broken, nobody is getting screwed.

Some companies are well aware that they are a stepping stone type job. Any of the regionals for instance. That is partly what keeps the pay down since it is thought of by many to be a temp job.

Once you get to the Major/Legacy type job, that expectation goes away. I don't think Contintental was very happy about people using them for a 737 type and then taking off to SWA. Like I said, if you go somewhere and don't like it then fine. To go with the intention of leaving at the Major/Legacy level is frowned upon. This sort of behavior is why so many companies have gone to a bonding system overseas.

As for the training itself, recurrent is a heck of a lot shorter than putting another guy through a full type course when you leave. There are people waiting to change equipment etc. that get screwed because your actions clogged up the training pipeline. It's like using Delta so you can go to AA when they start hiring again.

ryguy
09-07-2008, 11:18 AM
Just remember, the Brits and the Aussies invented flying..(on the same day I guess!) If you were confused about that, just ask them!

Wright brothers who??

The best remedy for us is to remind them that they are sitting in a Boeing and working for a company founded by an American ;) They turn all these funny shades of red/purple.

Blueridger
09-07-2008, 12:09 PM
I have to agree with Leftwing. It is an individual right to go to work somewhere with the strict intention of leaving after getting the necessary experience. If that is truly "a problem" with CX, then maybe they need to re-evaluate what they are offering (or not offering) their pilots. It is certainly not something you should bring up during the interview, but I can see it as only improving things for the pilot group down the road if it becomes aggravating to the company.

I turned down the job offer right away - a career there is attractive, but the company attitude and personality towards its pilots is lukewarm at best......... Good job - certainly, but fun - not really from what I experienced.

Flight attendants there also seem very callous and anti-social. Maybe I just smell bad or something.:confused:

dojetdriver
09-07-2008, 01:34 PM
There isn't anything wrong with using CP (or any company) as a stepping stone and it most certainly isn't screwing the company. Why do you think a training slot is wasted when one has to go through recurrent anyway? Let's just say it is a "wasted slot", what difference does the reason make?

If your philosophy is correct, then every time a pilot leaves an airline for another that is more desirable to them, then they're screwing their employer just because their intention was using them as a stepping stone in the first place. Do you think many new-hires at Comair intend to stay for life? Sorry. That doesn't makes sense.

Unless some contractual obligation has been broken, nobody is getting screwed.

Agreed, it's called the cost of doing business. If someody wants to go somewhere just for the experience and not for a career, let them. Happens all the time at just about any other occupation. Ours shouldn't be any different.

Now, it's not like this is going to happen at CX. But if (insert airline here) needs a staffing reduction for whatever reason, does anybody think the airline feels it has some obligation to keep you on payroll? Like itt's going to ruin a repution becaue it hired you and gave you a job and now dosn't feel the same way? Heck no, they will drop an employee at the drop of a hat if need be.

ryguy
09-07-2008, 03:52 PM
Agreed, it's called the cost of doing business. If someody wants to go somewhere just for the experience and not for a career, let them. Happens all the time at just about any other occupation. Ours shouldn't be any different.

Now, it's not like this is going to happen at CX. But if (insert airline here) needs a staffing reduction for whatever reason, does anybody think the airline feels it has some obligation to keep you on payroll? Like itt's going to ruin a repution becaue it hired you and gave you a job and now dosn't feel the same way? Heck no, they will drop an employee at the drop of a hat if need be.

It is certainly your right but in my opinion it is bad form. I'm not talking about the fact of what you are doing to the company, I'm talking about it from a fellow pilot standpoint. I don't care if you leave, that is your business. I'm talking about coming with the intention of leaving without really giving the place a chance. By doing that you took an opportunity from someone else who may want to make the place a career. You take away a slot that someone may need to change equipment. CX doesn't train 600 or 700 new pilots a year so we can't absorb that.

As for screwing the company, as you said it is the cost of doing business. Ultimately if guys were to leave in droves it would help us out a bit. Unfortunately that is not the case, I believe we lost around 8 guys to UPS during their last hiring cycle. All that did was make it harder for the guys behind them as the "we were right about these Americans" crowd piped up.
Those were very few but they were there. We are relatively new to them and prior to us coming the Canadians were the new guys.

In the end, do what you want to do. It's not like I'm going to stop you. Just realize that your actions affect more than just you and the company. There are a lot of Americans here working to silence that minority, and yes, they are a minority.

If you are going to put in the effort to get this job, why not give it a real chance? I could really care less about what you do to the company. Like you say, they would fire/furlough you in a heartbeat if they had to. That said, I don't think they hire with the INTENTION of furloughing you as soon as it is feasible. See the difference?

LejetB744
09-07-2008, 05:04 PM
Ran into a pilot who just quit Cathay Pacific last year. He said the culture is very nasty, with a negative work and training environment, and flying mostly with pompous captains. And that being an American is a huge negative amongst the Aussies and Brits. I'm thinking about CP as a career option, so I was needless to say disturbed by hearing this. Was this guy's view valid or not? Thanks!
Ok Guys. I am going to step in and answer this one. I work at Cx. There are so many Bs stories on this thread, it's not even funny. First of all, big changes have taken place in the training and checking philosophy at Cathay. The guys in the training department are really kicking ass. I can honestly say that things have changed for the better. It's all positive. I am not saying that Cx didn't have its problems in the past, but then again, which airline has not?
Now, what I am about to say might rub a few people the wrong way, but it is not my intention to be disrespectful. You can't come here as cocky as G.W Bush and tell a foreign airline, in America we do it this way! Or @ UAL we did this. I have flown the line here for several years. Is there an occasional prick you end up flying with at times? Sure, but rarely that has ever happened. Only once for me. Please tell me where that does not happen, and I'll throw in my resume there! I flew for a few U.S carriers, it wasn't all that relaxed and professional, as some people mentioned!
Only a few people left for UPS. And BTW, UPS is not all that fantastic either. The people that left were mostly unhappy from the start, and complained non-stop. Cx does not fit everyone's goals. THAT'S OK!
As far as Command you have to earn here. Several of my personal close friends just went through a command course here. I am here to tell you, that although they were exhausted after 3+ months of being drilled, training gave them 110% support all the way till the end. I even flew with some of them during their training and final checks. I saw nothing but professionalism all the way. I have seen some great improvements in the past few months. Please take your cues from people that are still employed with Cx, and not complainers that left for whatever reasons. Remember, there are always two sides to a story. Rumors rumors rumors........
If you have any questions, then write to me. I will not enter into any bashing contest with anyone. All the best gents.

dojetdriver
09-07-2008, 06:37 PM
It is certainly your right but in my opinion it is bad form.

First off sport, I NEVER said what I would do. It's not about me. I was just making the point that if somebody wants to go somehwere for experience, that's their perogative. Do YOU see the difference?

I'm not talking about the fact of what you are doing to the company, I'm talking about it from a fellow pilot standpoint. I don't care if you leave, that is your business. I'm talking about coming with the intention of leaving without really giving the place a chance. By doing that you took an opportunity from someone else who may want to make the place a career. You take away a slot that someone may need to change equipment. CX doesn't train 600 or 700 new pilots a year so we can't absorb that.

See above. Besides, do you THINK that CX is the ONLY company to possibly have this issue? I know a guy on the NCA contract. Guys in his new hire class were from CX. Guys from my last job are at EK, they ALSO had guys in their new hire class that came from CX.

As for screwing the company, as you said it is the cost of doing business. Ultimately if guys were to leave in droves it would help us out a bit. Unfortunately that is not the case, I believe we lost around 8 guys to UPS during their last hiring cycle. All that did was make it harder for the guys behind them as the "we were right about these Americans" crowd piped up.

I'm not sure where you get this term "screwing the company from". Again, see above. Again, going somewhere to gain experience is common. Not EVERYBODY sees CX (or whatever other company) as the be all end all of airlines. I'm glad you do. I NEVER said it wasn't a good job. But not EVERYBODY goes to work some place for the same reasons.

Those were very few but they were there. We are relatively new to them and prior to us coming the Canadians were the new guys.

In the end, do what you want to do. It's not like I'm going to stop you. Just realize that your actions affect more than just you and the company. There are a lot of Americans here working to silence that minority, and yes, they are a minority.

Again, my post WASN'T about me.

If you are going to put in the effort to get this job, why not give it a real chance? I could really care less about what you do to the company. Like you say, they would fire/furlough you in a heartbeat if they had to. That said, I don't think they hire with the INTENTION of furloughing you as soon as it is feasible. See the difference?

Again, I NEVER said what I would do. I could really care less what you think about what I said. I also NEVER said I would go to CX just to gain experience. Maybe you could quote where I did say that before you start making all these assumptions about what YOU think I would do.

proskuneho
09-07-2008, 07:37 PM
Wow. I don't think anyone needs to take anything said here personally. It seems that each person was just talking from their own valid experiences. There was no condemnation or finger wagging, just different perspectives on how the PREVIOUS actions of a few Americans can make it difficult for those of us who would love to go to CX.

dojetdriver
09-07-2008, 07:50 PM
Wow. I don't think anyone needs to take anything said here personally. It seems that each person was just talking from their own valid experiences. There was no condemnation or finger wagging, just different perspectives on how the PREVIOUS actions of a few Americans can make it difficult for those of us who would love to go to CX.

I guess, but go through the guys post and count how many times the word YOU (meaning me) is used in his reply to mine. If it wasn't meant to be personal, I think the term "somebody" instead of "you" would have been more appropriate.

ryguy
09-07-2008, 08:10 PM
I only quoted your post for a piece of it. The YOU I was mentioning was not specifically toward YOU. If YOU want to get yourself worked up then fine by me. If it came off that way then it is not how I meant it. Saying someone this and that makes no sense, I should have used the term "one" rather than you but I tend to type as if I was speaking to a person face to face.
I never said CX was the end all be all of anything, I even mentioned people being unhappy. Quit getting all worked up, the you was not used in the context in which you chose to take it.

The OP asked a question and he got an answer from two people currently working for the company and one that left. Beyond that, the rest doesn't really matter.

dojetdriver
09-07-2008, 08:26 PM
I only quoted your post for a piece of it. The YOU I was mentioning was not specifically toward YOU. If YOU want to get yourself worked up then fine by me. If it came off that way then it is not how I meant it. Saying someone this and that makes no sense, I should have used the term "one" rather than you but I tend to type as if I was speaking to a person face to face.
I never said CX was the end all be all of anything, I even mentioned people being unhappy. Quit getting all worked up, the you was not used in the context in which you chose to take it.

I'm not getting "worked up" about it. Just noting how much you used the personalization in YOUR post about my view point on something. If you were speaking to someone face to face and they did the same thing I did, it would sound just as personal, think about it.

Quit getting all worked up, the you was not used in the context in which you chose to take it.

Again, not getting "worked up" as you put it. You even admitted you should have used a different term than "you" when addressing my post on the matter.

ryguy
09-07-2008, 08:36 PM
It was really more of a rhetorical use of the word that would really require a personal conversation.

Looking at it again, I see your point and it was my fault so I appologize. Cold one on me if I ever see ya.

dojetdriver
09-07-2008, 08:40 PM
It was really more of a rhetorical use of the word that would really require a personal conversation.

Looking at it again, I see your point and it was my fault so I appologize. Cold one on me if I ever see ya.


;)Cheers:)

saviboy
09-09-2008, 07:52 AM
Just remember, the Brits and the Aussies invented flying..(on the same day I guess!) If you were confused about that, just ask them!

Wright brothers who??

Wright brothers invented the first pratical airplane. People were "flying" in balloons or less advanced aircraft in Europe before 1903.
The Brazilian Santos Dumont flew around the Eiffel Tower in 1901.

skyward80
10-04-2008, 06:21 PM
ryguy:

I am under the impression that an upgrade on the freighter fleet would involve living in HK for a number of years at some point between the right and left seat. Is this correct? I'd love to work for CX. I wouldn't mind spending time in HK for training, but outside of training, I have no real interest in living in HK (not something I would advertise in an interview obviously). Would this mean that I would not be able to upgrade?

Skyward80

katana
10-07-2008, 10:21 AM
I have a question. How long does it take for an SO to upgrade to FO? and what's the requirement?

Kenny
10-07-2008, 10:38 AM
There's a whole bunch of very p!ssed off SO's that aren't getting their by-pass pay, who're watching their upgrades getting further and further away because of all the based DEFO's being hired.

alvrb211
10-07-2008, 10:46 AM
Just remember, the Brits and the Aussies invented flying..(on the same day I guess!) If you were confused about that, just ask them!

Wright brothers who??

I think the first flight took place in France. In a balloon!

The feeling among many overseas pilots is that they don't like the FAA ATP. They know that the FAA ATP is kids stuff compared to what they had to go through.

AL

Airhoss
10-10-2008, 09:58 PM
I think the first flight took place in France. In a balloon!

The feeling among many overseas pilots is that they don't like the FAA ATP. They know that the FAA ATP is kids stuff compared to what they had to go through.

AL


YouTube - Airbus A320 Plane Crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EM0hDchVlY)

rotorhead1026
10-11-2008, 03:01 AM
The feeling among many overseas pilots is that they don't like the FAA ATP. They know that the FAA ATP is kids stuff compared to what they had to go through.

Actually, the general feeling among most pilots - overseas or not - is that one country's rating is about as good as another, at least in developed or nearly developed countries. Individually no better or worse than the person holding the license. It's an opinion borne of experience and maturity.

The YouTube video is a "blast from the past" . Bonehead stunts know no national boundaries. :)

alvrb211
10-11-2008, 06:36 AM
The biggest difference is in the written exams. Especially JAR Vs FAA. There's approx 700 hours study required for the 14 ATPL exams in the EU. A lot of the study is simply not included in the FAA ATP.

AL

Airhoss
10-11-2008, 07:34 PM
I can give you my personal experience, but keep in mind it's just my opionion.

I started at CX as a DEFO thinking I had reached my career company. Two years later I was quite happy to leave. I never failed an RT/PC or a line check (all three legs of it), but in my OPINION it's a very unpleasant airline culture generally speaking. Checking and training are particularly unpleasant.

There was a lot of anti-americanism when I was there, but I've heard it's been dialed back. A direct quote from the B744 program manager when I received my RPIC (Relief Pilot in Command) checkout, "You North Americans do fine between Anchorage and Hong Kong, but when you come to the pax fleet, the wheels fall off."


You know I've been flying widebodies all over the world for years without the assistance of some pompous CX flight manger both Sched and non sched. When I hear crap like this it indicates only one thing. Defensiveness derived from insecurity.

Same as above with that ATP comment. The safety statistics simply do not indicate that their is a problem with the FAA ATP vs an JAR ATP.
If you are judging the ability of a pilot based solely on the dificulty or length ATP written test you have your priorities all wrong.

proskuneho
10-11-2008, 07:44 PM
Cathay is a long term goal for me. (I should have the published mins for DESO this month, but I know it will be years before I can earn an interview). So, I have a few questions:

1. Anyone on this forum who works at CX have any idea of how many American pilots are based in Hong Kong?
2. I hear rumors of a community of pilot villas, is that true?
3. What is family life like for Second Officers?
4. What is the schedule like?
5. Does anyone live on Lantau Island? I hear that downtown Hong Kong is rather polluted, as are many Chinese cities.

cessnaxdriver
10-14-2008, 09:11 AM
[quote=proskuneho;477583]Cathay is a long term goal for me. (I should have the published mins for DESO this month, but I know it will be years before I can earn an interview). So, I have a few questions:

I am based in the US but I will give it a shot.

1. Anyone on this forum who works at CX have any idea of how many American pilots are based in Hong Kong?
There are approximately 250 Americans working at Cathay, most are based here in NA. I can guess about 50 that I know of in HK.
2. I hear rumors of a community of pilot villas, is that true?
Most Expats live in Discovery Bay, but some due live in Hong Kong around the Midlevels, and yes really polluted and expect to develop asthma in your first year there

3. What is family life like for Second Officers?
The SO's only fly ULH so lots of time off. Many spend their time travelling the world. Usually get about 20 days off /month
4. What is the schedule like?
My sched. this month has me working 9 days.. But the average is usually around 15 days/month. Lots of time off
5. Does anyone live on Lantau Island? I hear that downtown Hong Kong is rather polluted, as are many Chinese cities.[/quote
As said before, check out Disovery Bay, Tung Chung is another spot near the airport on Lantau with shopping and access to public transportation.

proskuneho
10-14-2008, 03:58 PM
Thank you cessnaxdriver -

I really appreciate your response.

What career path do you suggest will best prepare me to meet Cathay expectations and standards for the Second Officer program?

CX has been my goal since I decided to leave management, almost two years ago. I have have been instructing for the last year and a half. As I said before, I should reach about 1000 hrs this month with around 200 multi. I am well aware that Cathay does not actually hire pilots with only the posted minimums. What route do you think is best?

Is there an age limit? I am about to turn 34. The website says "age commensurate with experience..." While I do not have a huge amount of flight time, I do have a decade of management experience - 5 of those years managing flight schools. I am also working on an MBA in International Business as a backup plan. Will that help or hurt on my resume?

Anyone else willing to chime in, please do!

Thanks again, everyone.

cessnaxdriver
10-14-2008, 04:40 PM
Right now, most SO's are getting in with around 2000 hours and 500 turbine time, several regional guys and some 737 guys. Your best bet for a career path if really interested is to get as much turbine PIC time and keep UPDATING your app every six months. It will show interest and they will like that. I know they are still training SO's but with the Boeing strike and deliveries stalled, not expecting much over the next couple of months. You are definitely still young, my friend was hired at 45 so you have lots of time. Although I hold a Master's in Engineering and a MBA, I left that off as I was not sure how they view advanced education. I really don't think it matters. I say just keep building the flight time and keep updating your application.

Hope this helps

Thank you cessnaxdriver -

I really appreciate your response.

What career path do you suggest will best prepare me to meet Cathay expectations and standards for the Second Officer program?

CX has been my goal since I decided to leave management, almost two years ago. I have have been instructing for the last year and a half. As I said before, I should reach about 1000 hrs this month with around 200 multi. I am well aware that Cathay does not actually hire pilots with only the posted minimums. What route do you think is best?

Is there an age limit? I am about to turn 34. The website says "age commensurate with experience..." While I do not have a huge amount of flight time, I do have a decade of management experience - 5 of those years managing flight schools. I am also working on an MBA in International Business as a backup plan. Will that help or hurt on my resume?

Anyone else willing to chime in, please do!

Thanks again, everyone.

proskuneho
10-14-2008, 05:10 PM
Right now, most SO's are getting in with around 2000 hours and 500 turbine time, several regional guys and some 737 guys. Your best bet for a career path if really interested is to get as much turbine PIC time and keep UPDATING your app every six months. It will show interest and they will like that. I know they are still training SO's but with the Boeing strike and deliveries stalled, not expecting much over the next couple of months. You are definitely still young, my friend was hired at 45 so you have lots of time. Although I hold a Master's in Engineering and a MBA, I left that off as I was not sure how they view advanced education. I really don't think it matters. I say just keep building the flight time and keep updating your application.

Hope this helps
Thanks for the response. I feel relieved that I might actually have a chance!

About getting turbine PIC - does Cathay care how large the aircraft is? What if I got hired to fly boxes in a Caravan? I heard a rumor that CX only cares about turbine PIC in a multi-engine jet aircraft weighing at least 50,000 pounds?

Thanks!

cessnaxdriver
10-14-2008, 05:13 PM
Nope.. I flew HS125's, CE750's heaviest aircraft was 36,400 as PIC.. most of my classmates had RJ time and small business jet time. If you can fly a BE99 or 1900 that will help..

proskuneho
10-14-2008, 05:27 PM
Nope.. I flew HS125's, CE750's heaviest aircraft was 36,400 as PIC.. most of my classmates had RJ time and small business jet time. If you can fly a BE99 or 1900 that will help..
I know it would look better if I had RJ time, but would they consider single engine turbine time (such as Caravan, Pilatus PC-12, etc)? These jobs might actually be more stable in this economy...

cessnaxdriver
10-14-2008, 05:34 PM
I bet they would, it can't hurt to have. Since you are going for SO the multi time may not be as important, not to sure how they view Caravan time but the more time in the book will help you to be more competitive. Good Luck and keep pressing forward with them it will be worth it.

proskuneho
10-14-2008, 06:01 PM
Thanks a lot. It might sound cheesy, but I have a CX 747-400 pic with an interview gouge taped to my wall to remind me daily of why I took a massive paycut to become a flight instructor.

proskuneho
10-15-2008, 06:54 PM
So would any other CX pilots (especially those who entered as Second Officers) care to chime in on what types of aircraft experience Cathay is looking for? Does anyone know if they would accept Caravan or Pilatus PC-12 (turbine PIC) time? I'm sitting at almost 950 tt with almost 200 multi right now. I'll probably have around 1300-1500 TT and 500-600 multi-engine (all dual given) when I leave my current instructing job. After that, I would like to gain turbine PIC experience. Caravan jobs would be easier to gain PIC time in soon...

Thanks

Flyin'Finn
10-16-2008, 04:07 PM
As age goes, I'm 34 and waiting for SO class date. ~900 turbine when I got the 'yes' letter. As c-driver mentioned, keep updating your info, especially once you start loging turbine time.

Take the negative posts about CX for what they are worth. Maybe the SO's have to eat a bigger sh!t sandwich than DEFO's, but IMO it's still smaller than what the U.S. airlines are offering nowadays.

FF

lear 31 pilot
10-16-2008, 04:51 PM
Finn
What was your total time, did you have Turbine PIC or SIC time and was it Pt 121 or 135? Just trying to get an idea whats competitve. I have around 2900 hours and 700 turbine with about 100 hours of Jet PIC and I applied a couple of months ago, and have not heard anything yet.

skyward80
10-16-2008, 04:53 PM
Didn't CX hit the pause button on North American hiring for now?

Skyward80

MayFly135s
10-16-2008, 08:58 PM
Up in Cathay City this week there are 2nd interviews for both DEFO and SOs going on (some North Americans in the bunch). An interviewer I spoke with indicated that they were interviewing for NAM starts in 18 months.

Flyin'Finn
10-16-2008, 11:40 PM
I got the call with ~2300 total, 500 Saab and 400 ERJ time, all Part 121 (had also an internal reference). Was told 2000 tt and 800 turbine were comp.mins, however I know a few guys from EU have gotten in with less than those numbers. Age seems to be between mid-twenties to mid-thirties.

Sounds like next SO class will be no earlier than summer/fall 2009, with NA DEFO's getting in early 2010. Again, this is info that keeps getting circulated between guys coming back from second interviews, pprune, airlinepilotcentral etc.

Good luck to all that played.

FF

Purpleanga
10-17-2008, 12:03 AM
Ran into a pilot who just quit Cathay Pacific last year. He said the culture is very nasty, with a negative work and training environment, and flying mostly with pompous captains. And that being an American is a huge negative amongst the Aussies and Brits. I'm thinking about CP as a career option, so I was needless to say disturbed by hearing this. Was this guy's view valid or not? Thanks!

I'd say yes based on who I've talked to in the U.S. It all has to do with the FAA vs the JAA. There is bitterness that anyone can complete FAA vs the JAA where you actually have to have good knowledge. I don't understand it. Ratings must be harder but they still have 500 hour guys flying 737/a320s over there. Can't compare that with the ton of experience over here.

4everFO
10-17-2008, 02:33 PM
For those waiting for a start date...Chief Executive's weekly news (mostly addressing the financial meltdown) for Friday the 17th states that:

"We will begin by suspending all recruitment at both Cathay Pacific and Dragonair. This suspension applies to recruitment for all vacancies. In exceptional circumstances, and only after approval is given at Director level, vacancies may be allowed to be filled,..."

FO

Sike
10-18-2008, 02:00 AM
F.O.s who recently got through the second interview were told to expect mid 2010 course dates... straight from Deputy Chief's mouth. However, I think there will continue to be a moderate bit of S.O. hiring.

4everFO
10-19-2008, 08:18 AM
F.O.s who recently got through the second interview were told to expect mid 2010 course dates... straight from Deputy Chief's mouth. However, I think there will continue to be a moderate bit of S.O. hiring.

I hope that you are right about the SO hiring, but I read the CEOs update as a total freeze. I do not want to even guess what the SO to JFO upgrade time will be if they do in fact suspend pilot recruiting, even short term. With no airplanes being delivered (due to the Boeing strike) and B744s being flown to the Middle East (only needs 2 pilots instead of 4), I think we are looking at things coming to a grinding halt. Good thing CX hired all those direct entry captains.

FO

4everFO
10-21-2008, 05:14 AM
Just received an update from the Director of Flight Ops...hiring for pilots is not affected by the freeze, so pilot recruitment "not coming to a grinding halt." It will slow. Stated budget plan for 2009 calls for 100+ pilots and 2010 250+. However, he also stated the budget plans were being re done in light of the current economy and the Boeing strike.

FO

marcal
10-24-2008, 10:57 AM
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh