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View Full Version : foreign earned income exclusion


penguin22
01-03-2009, 10:42 AM
Working on the Korean commuting contract, do you qualify for the foreign earned income exclusion?

Publication 54 (2008), Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad (http://www.irs.gov/publications/p54/ch04.html#d0e3841)

You won’t have 330 days out of the US, so you don’t meet the physical presence test. But it seems that you can still qualify for the foreign earned income exclusion if you can claim to be a “bona fide resident” of Korea. Is this possible?


Boomerang
01-03-2009, 01:06 PM
I don't think the requirement is that you be a tax resident of Korea. Just that you maintain a tax residence outside the US.

penguin22
01-03-2009, 01:25 PM
I don't think the requirement is that you be a tax resident of Korea. Just that you maintain a tax residence outside the US.

Well here's a quote from IRS Pub 54: (linked above)
"If your tax home is in a foreign country and you meet the bona fide residence test or the physical presence test, you can choose to exclude from your income a limited amount of your foreign earned income"

So sounds to me like if you won't meet the physical presence test, (330 days outside of the US), you'd have to meet the bona fide residence test.

In casual conversation about this job, everybody talks of the $87k income exclusion. I'm just trying to find where it's justified with the IRS.

My accountant doesn't have alot of experience with this stuff, and he told me at first glance that I wouldn't qualify for the exclusion. I'm hoping he's wrong.


penguin22
01-03-2009, 04:25 PM
With the contract for Korean, KAL puts you up at the Incheon Hyatt while you're flying their system, at their cost. So there would not be any reason (other than taxes) to buy/rent a house in Seoul.

Hopefully somebody who's already working this contract (or a similar contract), while still living in the USA will pipe in here.

LostInAsia
01-03-2009, 04:56 PM
while still living in the USA will pipe in here.

This will not allow you to meet the bona fide residence test. Basically you need to ask yourself, "where do I return to when I finish work"? If it is the US, you will have a tough time qualifying for it. Do you have a visa for where you are claiming you reside? If you had a house prior to accepting the overseas assignment, what are you doing with it now? If you are renting it out or did you sell it? If so, then you have a better chance of qualifying. If you are still living in it and return there when you are finished work it probably will not work.

This is just my experience from qualifying for the exemption for the last 2 years. If you do think you qualify or are not sure, pony up the money and get a tax expert that specializes in expat taxes.

shanKs
01-03-2009, 05:07 PM
Yeah that's a touchy issue right here, and I will strongly advise you to see a tax professional. One that specializes in the foreign income tax exclusion.

I moved to HKG last year and in order to qualify I have to use the physical presense test since I arrived after Jan 1st. From what I've heard you can only use the bona fide residence test from Jan 1 to Jan 1.

It's also going to help you to have an address set up, be paying bills there, have a phone number, and definitely a visa and identity card.

Don't trust my word for it, pay the money and go to a pro.

Typhoonpilot
01-04-2009, 04:54 AM
The other option is to use the Foreign Per Diem rates (http://aoprals.state.gov/content.asp?content_id=184&menu_id=78) for each day that you are out of the USA. It doesn't quite equate to what the foreign earned income exclusion is, but it's close.

Be very careful as the IRS is actively auditing expat pilots right now and looking very carefully at the foreign earned income exclusion. They are taking a bizarre interpretation in some audits that time spent over international waters does not count towards your foreign earned income exclusion. They are asking pilots to provide them detailed ( minute by minute ) accounts of their flight times to assess the percentage of time over international waters and then reducing the exclusion by that percentage.

There are efforts underway to 1) increase the foreign earned income exclusion and 2) to assert pressure on the IRS to back off on the bizarre interpretation ( apparently a leap of logic from cases against merchant seamen ).

Below is an explanation and sample letter in regards to legislation in the House and Senate to eliminate tax on foreign earned income for Americans working abroad. In November I met with the lobbyist and board members of the American Business Council in Dubai. The lobbyist is the hired gun of MECACC, and this is one lobbyist that I like because he is driving this whole issue on behalf of the Americans working in the Middle East.



This effort is sponsored by the Middle East Council of the American Chamber of Commerce (MECACC), and the website communication feature is funded by the American Business Association – Eastern Province (ABA-EP), Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

AN URGENT CALL TO ACTION

An Open Letter to Taxpaying Americans Working Internationally

SUPPORT REFORM OF SECTION 911

We need your help, and you can help. U.S. Citizens abroad represent a substantial and decisive voting block. In 2000 our votes in Florida decided the outcome of the presidential election. Let’s use our influence once again correct an injustice that affects all of us who work internationally!

Americans working overseas are America’s vanguard in the global marketplace but Americans working abroad face an uphill battle. We are taxed on the basis of citizenship rather than on residence. That makes us very uncompetitive and very expensive to employ internationally. We need to pull together to reform the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE), Section 911 of the U.S. Tax Code, and level the playing field for Americans to compete on an equal footing.

For the first time, we have bi-cameral, bipartisan legislation in the U.S. Congress: “The Working American Competitiveness Act” (S-1140) sponsored by Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC), and (H.R. 4752) sponsored by Congressman Gregory Meeks (D-NY). (See list of cosponsors below)

The FEIE was severely crippled by an eleventh-hour rider in the Tax Reconciliation and Prevention Act (TIPRA) passed in May of 2006. This legislation would not only reverse that damage, but it would increase the amount of the foreign earned income exclusion to compensate for the prolonged absence of inflation adjustments. The FEIE is at the same level it was in 1986.

We have a third supporting piece of legislation “American Tax Fairness Act of 2008” (H.R. 6614) Congressman Scott Garrett (R-NJ) which contains the same text as S1140 and HR 4752, but also includes a requirement for the U.S. Treasury to produce within 1 year a report on the United States Taxation of foreign income.

We urge you to contact Congress today and support S 1140 in the Senate and H.R. 4752 and H.R.6614 in the House. Copy and paste this link Middle East Council of American Chambers of Commerce | Global Coalition of Americans Dedicated to Restoring American Trade Competitiveness in a 21st Century Economy -- Legislative Action Center into your browser and let your voice be heard!

Americans Working Abroad = U.S. Exports = Jobs at Home

The United States is the only developed country in the world which taxes its citizens working internationally in this manner. Because of America’s unbalanced and counterproductive tax policy, Americans are either choosing not to work overseas, or they are too expensive for overseas companies to employ. As a consequence, our nation is handicapping itself in the global economic competition. This problem is serious today, and it will only become worse as globalization continues its relentless march into the future.

With a soft dollar, American exports are currently in high demand. With the weak American economy, more Americans are seeking work outside the U.S. But high exports and a strong base of taxpaying Americans working abroad are not economic conditions which are likely to endure. With the probable return of a strong U.S. dollar and economy, there likely will be fewer Americans choosing to work abroad because of a reduced financial incentive to accept the risk and inconvenience of living and working away from the comforts of home and, often, family.

Without Americans working in influential international positions such as purchasing, contract management, and project management, other nations either will fill, or are now filling, those vacancies. They will order products produced in, and services available from, their own countries. The Germans, Chinese, Russians, French, Italians and a whole host of other nationalities are aggressively replacing Americans in many key business positions and on many lucrative contracts around the globe, because U.S. tax policies have weakened American international competitiveness and have reduced the attractiveness of Americans as international employees. By pulling together, we can reverse this negative economic trend. Visit Middle East Council of American Chambers of Commerce | Global Coalition of Americans Dedicated to Restoring American Trade Competitiveness in a 21st Century Economy -- Legislative Action Center .

Over 30 years ago, Congress designed and enacted the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE) (section 911 of the U.S. Tax Code) as a tax incentive for Americans and their families to leave the comforts and security of their homes and families to work abroad. Earlier Congresses understood the essential front-line role working Americans played in global competition, and wanted to ensure our front line stood strong. Unfortunately, over the past 20 years the FEIE has been a constant Congressional target for dilution or elimination. In May 2006 TIPRA punched a hole below the FEIE water line and reduced by over half its financial benefit to working expatriates.

As an inevitable consequence, the FEIE, intended by Congress to benefit America’s global workforce, was severely devalued as an effective economic tool to persuade Americans to work overseas, or to retain them if they were already there. American workers or their foreign employers now pay twice as much in taxes as they paid prior to January 2006 (the law was retroactive). And the law affects all ordinary income for qualifying Americans working internationally. The predictable result is fewer Americans in influential business positions, and equally educated, less expensive workers from other countries literally flooding in to fill those positions.

One of the hardest hit sectors is education. American educators, who once taught at American secondary schools or universities around the globe, suddenly faced with a doubled tax burden, have left their classrooms and returned home. This is especially troublesome in the Middle East, where American values are frequently questioned. Rather than engaging in a vigorous cultural debate, American educators have been forced by our government’s tax policies to go home.

Please join The Middle East Council of American Chambers of Commerce (MECACC), other American Chambers of Commerce (AmChams), and other associations representing overseas Americans in our fight for corrective action. For a strong economy we need a strong global economic foothold around the world.

Thank you for your support.

vpracing
01-05-2009, 03:49 AM
Shoot me an email and I'll give you the name of a lady that does some of the KAL guys taxes.

VP

[email protected]

Schnides
01-09-2009, 09:41 AM
I'm getting ready to take a contract overseas. So this is a great topic. Thanks!!

Tax Pilot
05-19-2015, 12:25 AM
Note that there have been some recent cases [Lisa Hamilton Savary, Petitioner v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue, Respondent; Rogers v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo, 2009-111; Clark v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo. 2008-71]
concerning pilots and crew trying to claim the foreign earned income exclusion under either the bona-fide residence or physical presence test when they live abroad.

One big item that seems to be consistently ignored is that flight time over international airspace is not considered a foreign workday. You must actually be flying over a foreign country or its territorial waters for such time to be considered a foreign work day for foreign earned income exclusion purposes.

In the event of audit, such oversight can be end up resulting in a huge amount of tax due plus 20% negligence penalty!

The Dominican
05-19-2015, 06:16 AM
In terms of taxes.... Stay FAR away from pilot ***** boards and talk to a tax professional...., I can't tell you how many times I have seen bogus information on one of these sites that sounds educated or correct.

got2fly
05-19-2015, 09:44 AM
I know a number of guys at KAL who do indeed claim the foreign earned income exemption. They have a residence permit in Korea, but live in the company's hotel when there. When they return to the USA on days off, they come back on a Gen Dec so it is as if they are on a layover even though they are on days off. Their passport is not stamped on entry to the USA. It seems to me that this arrangement could land one in some hot water with the IRS because they do not have residence in Korea, just a residence permit. But it is being done by a lot of people and they are getting away with it so far.

Probe
05-19-2015, 05:36 PM
Note that there have been some recent cases [Lisa Hamilton Savary, Petitioner v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue, Respondent; Rogers v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo, 2009-111; Clark v. Commissioner, T.C. Memo. 2008-71]
concerning pilots and crew trying to claim the foreign earned income exclusion under either the bona-fide residence or physical presence test when they live abroad.

One big item that seems to be consistently ignored is that flight time over international airspace is not considered a foreign workday. You must actually be flying over a foreign country or its territorial waters for such time to be considered a foreign work day for foreign earned income exclusion purposes.



In the event of audit, such oversight can be end up resulting in a huge amount of tax due plus 20% negligence penalty!


Plus 40% per year interest, and they have been doing this 2-3 years after the tax year. I am on my second audit. I won the first over the phone. The IRS hasn't been answering any phone calls for months. I go to tax court next month.

I did everything 100% above board and correct. The IRS has been going after pilots working overseas big time. A couple of colleagues of mine are also on their second audit.

The Dominican
05-21-2015, 07:27 AM
"There are efforts underway to 1) increase the foreign earned income exclusion and 2) to assert pressure on the IRS to back off on the bizarre interpretation ( apparently a leap of logic from cases against merchant seamen )."

It is not only bizarre TP..., it is outright elegal as per the international laws regarding vessel sovereignty after the Tokyo agreement that came to effect after 1969. I understand if you are aboard an "N" registered airplane..., but according to the IRS, if I'm on a Japanese registered A/C on my way to Singapore, I'm in the US (although I never leave territories defined by FIR's) but when I'm in JFK on my way to somewhere else therefore in "transit" for less than 24 hours I'm not in the US.....! Oh the brilliance of our government.

NEDude
05-21-2015, 08:21 PM
U.S. tax laws are some of the most oppressive on earth. The rates may not be anywhere near the highest, but the actual laws, policies and penalties are about the most oppressive.

Being an expat American can be tough, we have it far worse than expats from other parts of the world. One of the biggest arguments for the American global tax policy is that you get U.S. protection abroad. However there are some very high profile cases recently where the U.S. did far less to protect its citizens abroad than most other countries. Look at those who were stuck in Yemen, Nepal and those captured by ISIS. The U.S. government left its citizens high and dry (or headless in the ISIS case), while other governments worked successfully to rescue their citizens. Americans in Nepal were urged to contact the Australians, Indians and Chinese for help getting out. The Russians have rescued many Americans trapped in Yemen.

Typhoonpilot
05-21-2015, 08:26 PM
It is not only bizarre TP...,

Wait a second, there can only be one "TP" :)


TP

Probe
05-21-2015, 10:06 PM
"There are efforts underway to 1) increase the foreign earned income exclusion and 2) to assert pressure on the IRS to back off on the bizarre interpretation ( apparently a leap of logic from cases against merchant seamen )."

It is not only bizarre TP..., it is outright elegal as per the international laws regarding vessel sovereignty after the Tokyo agreement that came to effect after 1969. I understand if you are aboard an "N" registered airplane..., but according to the IRS, if I'm on a Japanese registered A/C on my way to Singapore, I'm in the US (although I never leave territories defined by FIR's) but when I'm in JFK on my way to somewhere else therefore in "transit" for less than 24 hours I'm not in the US.....! Oh the brilliance of our government.

I believe the IRS is incorrect in how they are enforcing "on or over international waters" as well. I believe it should ONLY be in a US flagged vessel. In a different sent of instructions for a different form, I did run across a reference to being in a US flagged vessel or aircraft. I can't remember where it was.

Even a foreign vessel sitting in a US port is technically a foreign sovereignty, and vice versa.

I am not in a position to hire a lawyer to fight the IRS on this, but I am pretty sure they are wrong.

A330Pilot
05-23-2015, 01:28 PM
Just don't pay any taxes...I know guys who never filed taxes and were flying overseas for years...There is no way the IRS can prove if your working overseas or not...Just come back to the U.S every 3-4 months for a few days to make it look like your a traveller...depositing your salary to a bank account in the U.S, now that's a different story...you can still say you were selling your family owned property overseas and that's how you got some money...

NEDude
05-23-2015, 02:30 PM
Just don't pay any taxes...I know guys who never filed taxes and were flying overseas for years...There is no way the IRS can prove if your working overseas or not...Just come back to the U.S every 3-4 months for a few days to make it look like your a traveller...depositing your salary to a bank account in the U.S, now that's a different story...you can still say you were selling your family owned property overseas and that's how you got some money...

VERY, VERY (!!!!) dangerous move. Terrible advice. After the passage of FATCA the IRS has begun to crack down on foreign accounts and investments. FATCA requires foreign banks to report all of their dealings with 'U.S. persons' to the IRS or face a 30% withholding on all U.S. investments. Officially the threshold is accounts of $50,000 and higher, but most banks are not taking chances and reporting all accounts. Most countries have agreed to sign on to FATCA, including China. So the IRS will know about any accounts you open overseas and will know how much money you have in them. You are also required to file an FBAR annually if your overseas accounts have a total of $10,000 or more. If your bank files a FATCA report, but you did not file a FBAR account, well, say goodbye to all of your money and get ready for some prison time.

Think you can get away with holding on to your money and just making a large deposit when you return? Nope, the banks are required to report any large deposits. People have tried to sneak large deposits into their accounts in small amounts and have been caught as well. Trying to avoid the reporting threshold is also a crime and will result in forfeiting your money and most likely prison time. Think you can just claim you were selling family property overseas? Think again because you will owe big time capital gains taxes on the sale of foreign property. Just do a Google search on 'Boris Johnson U.S. taxes' to see how it works. Boris Johnson is the U.S. born (and thus U.S. citizen) mayor of London. He ran into major IRS issues when he sold his London home a few years ago but did not pay taxes.

A few years ago hiding your overseas money from the IRS may have been feasible, but after the Swiss banking scandals the laws are such that it is now virtually impossible and the laws are very harsh. IRS audits have dropped in all categories except for Americans who do, or are suspected of living, working or holding money overseas.

airspeed1974
05-23-2015, 07:08 PM
VERY, VERY (!!!!) dangerous move. Terrible advice. After the passage of FATCA the IRS has begun to crack down on foreign accounts and investments. FATCA requires foreign banks to report all of their dealings with 'U.S. persons' to the IRS or face a 30% withholding on all U.S. investments. Officially the threshold is accounts of $50,000 and higher, but most banks are not taking chances and reporting all accounts. Most countries have agreed to sign on to FATCA, including China. So the IRS will know about any accounts you open overseas and will know how much money you have in them. You are also required to file an FBAR annually if your overseas accounts have a total of $10,000 or more. If your bank files a FATCA report, but you did not file a FBAR account, well, say goodbye to all of your money and get ready for some prison time. Think you can get away with holding on to your money and just making a large deposit when you return? Nope, the banks are required to report any large deposits. People have tried to sneak large deposits into their accounts in small amounts and have been caught as well. Trying to avoid the reporting threshold is also a crime and will result in forfeiting your money and most likely prison time. Think you can just claim you were selling family property overseas? Think again because you will owe big time capital gains taxes on the sale of foreign property. Just do a Google search on 'Boris Johnson U.S. taxes' to see how it works. Boris Johnson is the U.S. born (and thus U.S. citizen) mayor of London. He ran into major IRS issues when he sold his London home a few years ago but did not pay taxes. A few years ago hiding your overseas money from the IRS may have been feasible, but after the Swiss banking scandals the laws are such that it is now virtually impossible and the laws are very harsh. IRS audits have dropped in all categories except for Americans who do, or are suspected of living, working or holding money overseas.

While that's true about FATCA the IRS is not going to know how much you have in your account nor will they know you even have an account. All FBAR really does is try to scare taxpayers. The govt of China is not going to contact the IRS and even if the IRS was to ask I highly doubt they would even say as many accounts for employees here are opened by the company so the expat is technically not the owner.

While one should file about these accounts you don't need to worry about them knowing how much. The mayors property was too public. Stay quiet is the best way

NEDude
05-24-2015, 03:07 AM
While that's true about FATCA the IRS is not going to know how much you have in your account nor will they know you even have an account. All FBAR really does is try to scare taxpayers. The govt of China is not going to contact the IRS and even if the IRS was to ask I highly doubt they would even say as many accounts for employees here are opened by the company so the expat is technically not the owner.

While one should file about these accounts you don't need to worry about them knowing how much. The mayors property was too public. Stay quiet is the best way

The IRS WILL know about your account. That is what FATCA does, requires the foreign banks to report the accounts of any 'US persons' to the IRS. FBAR requires you, the individual, to report your accounts and FATCA requires the banks to report your accounts. Banks are being very skittish about FATCA because the US can hit them pretty harshly for failing to comply. Many banks are now simply refusing to offer any banking services to US expats to avoid running afoul of FATCA laws. I myself am a victim of this. China signed on to FATCA last year and will be complying with the reporting laws.

There is a lot of information out there about this. The bottom line is you are now playing with fire if you fail to report overseas accounts. And by playing with fire I mean losing all of your money and heading off to federal prison. Try hiding your money at your own risk...

PS - even if you are not the owner of the account, if you have any sort of signatory authority on the account, you must file a FBAR.

China Agrees to FATCA Compliance - China Briefing News (http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2014/06/30/china-agrees-fatca-compliance.html)

Hong Kong Banks Shut Down U.S. Accounts Rather Than Deal with FATCA - China Briefing News (http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2014/12/18/hong-kong-banks-shut-us-accounts-rather-deal-fatca.html)

Rich Chinese in Reach of New U.S. Tax Law Fatca - WSJ (http://www.wsj.com/articles/rich-chinese-in-reach-of-new-u-s-tax-law-fatca-1404404713)

10 Facts About FATCA, America's Manifest Destiny Law Changing Banking Worldwide - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2014/08/19/ten-facts-about-fatca-americas-manifest-destiny-law-changing-banking-worldwide/)

FBAR Penalties | Failure to File (http://www.freedmaxick.com/failure-to-file-fbar-penalties/)

https://americansabroad.org/files/7513/6938/4532/sheppar6.pdf

NEDude
05-24-2015, 04:00 AM
Oh, and here is another little nugget that is in the works. A bill sponsored by Orin Hatch which would revoke your passport if you owe more than $50,000 to the IRS has just passed the Senate. So if you work overseas and suddenly the IRS finds out about your hidden accounts, with the penalties you would be hit with for a wilful failure to report, even if you do not go to prison you can say goodbye to your career as your ability to travel overseas could be revoked. Given the ferocity that Obama has in going after foreign tax cheats the odds are pretty high he would sign this bill if it gets through the House. Better hope you have another passport handy so you can continue working. Of course another ATPL would be good to have as well since by law the US can also revoke any federal licenses if you have significant past due taxes.

The Dominican
05-24-2015, 04:23 AM
The latest posts contain by far the most dangerous so called "advice" that I have seen anyone post on any pilot ***** board...!

I reiterate my recommendation that in terms of taxes, stay far away from the pilots rumor mills and discuss these issues with a tax attorney that specializes in foreign income.

NEDude
05-24-2015, 05:41 AM
The latest posts contain by far the most dangerous so called "advice" that I have seen anyone post on any pilot ***** board...!

I reiterate my recommendation that in terms of taxes, stay far away from the pilots rumor mills and discuss these issues with a tax attorney that specializes in foreign income.

I hope you are not referring to my posts. I don't think there is anything dangerous about making people aware of the laws and the potential penalties for trying to cheat the laws.

The Dominican
05-24-2015, 06:48 AM
I hope you are not referring to my posts. I don't think there is anything dangerous about making people aware of the laws and the potential penalties for trying to cheat the laws.
Of course not...!

Lucky8888
05-24-2015, 04:10 PM
While that's true about FATCA the IRS is not going to know how much you have in your account nor will they know you even have an account. All FBAR really does is try to scare taxpayers. The govt of China is not going to contact the IRS and even if the IRS was to ask I highly doubt they would even say as many accounts for employees here are opened by the company so the expat is technically not the owner.

While one should file about these accounts you don't need to worry about them knowing how much. The mayors property was too public. Stay quiet is the best way

You are sadly mistaken I'm afraid.

airspeed1974
05-24-2015, 07:57 PM
I find this very interesting because the guy I use for accounting has plenty of pilots from the ME big 3 carriers and never once have they gotten audited.

Just because he US put these bills into place does not mean that they will always find out. It costs money to monitor people, trust me on this.

Even if they know about your account they will not know how much you have in it. And I highly doubt that bill will get passed about the passport. If it does then say goodbye to the constitution as well.

I don't know why anyone should or would be afraid of the IRS. I have deposited amounts well in excess of 50K, as well as depositing less then 10K many times (structuring right?)

Reporting is fine. Worrying is not. Plus with a decent lawyer I think that this crap about international waters can be beaten

Probe
05-25-2015, 07:00 PM
While that's true about FATCA the IRS is not going to know how much you have in your account nor will they know you even have an account. All FBAR really does is try to scare taxpayers. The govt of China is not going to contact the IRS and even if the IRS was to ask I highly doubt they would even say as many accounts for employees here are opened by the company so the expat is technically not the owner.

While one should file about these accounts you don't need to worry about them knowing how much. The mayors property was too public. Stay quiet is the best way

The IRS has an office in Beijing. I know of a couple of business people who were caught because of their chinese bank accounts.

I am on my second audit which I should win easily, again. I agree that the international water thing could be successfully fought, but good lawyers cost good money. Only somebody who owes a lot will pay to fight it, and while you are fighting it, your balance due to the IRS grows at 40% per year, plus whatever you are paying the lawyer.

Not my fight, but it affects where I will choose to work next. I will stick to narrow body domestic..

airspeed1974
05-25-2015, 08:10 PM
Just put down your a sim instructor. How they gonna know??

Whip Whitaker
05-26-2015, 02:57 AM
I find this very interesting because the guy I use for accounting has plenty of pilots from the ME big 3 carriers and never once have they gotten audited.

Just because he US put these bills into place does not mean that they will always find out. It costs money to monitor people, trust me on this.

Even if they know about your account they will not know how much you have in it. And I highly doubt that bill will get passed about the passport. If it does then say goodbye to the constitution as well.

I don't know why anyone should or would be afraid of the IRS. I have deposited amounts well in excess of 50K, as well as depositing less then 10K many times (structuring right?)

Reporting is fine. Worrying is not. Plus with a decent lawyer I think that this crap about international waters can be beaten

I cannot figure this out. Tell me, are you a very good troll or just a complete idiot?

Probe
05-26-2015, 03:22 AM
Just put down your a sim instructor. How they gonna know??

We each have different levels of comfort dealing with anything, including the IRS if you are an American.

I do everything above board. i am on my second audit. If you want to lie and cheat, and take the chance of being caught, that is your choice, not mine.

There are more americans in prison for tax evasion than any other reason. 4 of my colleagues from my previous foreign job might be among them soon, if they are not already. They were caught.

Your choices are your own.

NEDude
05-26-2015, 05:55 AM
We each have different levels of comfort dealing with anything, including the IRS if you are an American.

I do everything above board. i am on my second audit. If you want to lie and cheat, and take the chance of being caught, that is your choice, not mine.

There are more americans in prison for tax evasion than any other reason. 4 of my colleagues from my previous foreign job might be among them soon, if they are not already. They were caught.

Your choices are your own.

Your only way to escape the IRS is to renounce or relinquish your U.S. citizenship. And even then you need to make sure you are completely square with the IRS before doing so and make sure you do not fall under the category of "Covered Expatriate" or you may never be able to even visit the U.S. again. If renouncing or relinquishing your citizenship are not in your plans the the best advice is to assume the IRS will know everything and be completely honest and up front in your taxes. Unfortunately doing so will most likely require an expensive tax professional.

B757
05-26-2015, 07:35 AM
Your only way to escape the IRS is to renounce or relinquish your U.S. citizenship. And even then you need to make sure you are completely square with the IRS before doing so and make sure you do not fall under the category of "Covered Expatriate" or you may never be able to even visit the U.S. again. If renouncing or relinquishing your citizenship are not in your plans the the best advice is to assume the IRS will know everything and be completely honest and up front in your taxes. Unfortunately doing so will most likely require an expensive tax professional.
Agreed..All US-citizens and Green Card-holders have to file their taxes / report their worldwide income to the IRS, even if they live and make their living overseas..If you decide to relinquish your citizenship or residency, you will have to notify the IRS that you have done so..A lot of good info can be found on the internet / IRS-website..If in any doubt, hire professional help..Money well spent..

airspeed1974
05-26-2015, 08:11 AM
I cannot figure this out. Tell me, are you a very good troll or just a complete idiot?

I would absolutely love for you to say this to my face. Please private message me so if your in my area or if I'm in yours we can set a time and place

airspeed1974
05-26-2015, 08:14 AM
We each have different levels of comfort dealing with anything, including the IRS if you are an American. I do everything above board. i am on my second audit. If you want to lie and cheat, and take the chance of being caught, that is your choice, not mine. There are more americans in prison for tax evasion than any other reason. 4 of my colleagues from my previous foreign job might be among them soon, if they are not already. They were caught. Your choices are your own.

I think there are far more Americans in prison for drugs than for tax evasion. Sorry to hear about your audits. I never had any issues

Probe
05-26-2015, 10:08 AM
I think there are far more Americans in prison for drugs than for tax evasion. Sorry to hear about your audits. I never had any issues

I never had any issues either, right up until I had issues.

Braniff DC8
05-26-2015, 12:51 PM
Oooh a call out! Can I come and watch???

NEDude
05-26-2015, 02:46 PM
Agreed..All US-citizens and Green Card-holders have to file their taxes / report their worldwide income to the IRS, even if they live and make their living overseas..If you decide to relinquish your citizenship or residency, you will have to notify the IRS that you have done so..A lot of good info can be found on the internet / IRS-website..If in any doubt, hire professional help..Money well spent..

Yes, it is a real pain. I hold an EU passport and live permanently in Europe. I make my living on a 4/4 contract in China. Yet I have to spend over $1,000 each year to have a tax professional file the paperwork which tells the U.S. that I do not owe any money. In the mean time, because of my U.S. citizenship banks are denying me services like a mortgage and retirement planing because they are scared of running afoul of FATCA.

Whip Whitaker
05-26-2015, 07:14 PM
I would absolutely love for you to say this to my face. Please private message me so if your in my area or if I'm in yours we can set a time and place

No thanks airspeed. For all I know you could be a MMA Fighter or a mentally unstable individual thats carrying a firearm.
I do stand by my comment however. Your "Tax Advice" is dangerous and dumb.

airspeed1974
05-27-2015, 02:56 AM
No thanks airspeed. For all I know you could be a MMA Fighter or a mentally unstable individual thats carrying a firearm. I do stand by my comment however. Your "Tax Advice" is dangerous and dumb.

Whip,

Just be a bit more courteous will ya? Whether you think my advice is dumb or not doesn't give you the right to talk to people that way

Whip Whitaker
05-27-2015, 03:45 AM
Whip,

Just be a bit more courteous will ya? Whether you think my advice is dumb or not doesn't give you the right to talk to people that way

Fair enough, I'll tone it down.

airspeed1974
05-27-2015, 09:32 AM
Thanks. We are all pilots at the end of the day it's best we try to help one another. I hate the IRS just as much as the next guy.

Starlifter
06-08-2015, 05:30 AM
Yes, it is a real pain. I hold an EU passport and live permanently in Europe. I make my living on a 4/4 contract in China. Yet I have to spend over $1,000 each year to have a tax professional file the paperwork which tells the U.S. that I do not owe any money. In the mean time, because of my U.S. citizenship banks are denying me services like a mortgage and retirement planing because they are scared of running afoul of FATCA.

Interesting you mention this, my one of European banks was notified of FATCA today. I have some paperwork to sign this week. I have bank accounts in two countries, have not heard from bank two yet. Bank two is where our mortgage is. I suspect my wife will be hearing soon from her bank, bank three as well as our daughter's bank. Wife is a greencard holder. My guess is she will want to dump that greencard ASAP.
Been out of country for 15 years, this is a first for us.

Lifter