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Copperhed51
01-11-2009, 01:04 PM
Just wondering if anybody can fill me in on what this is about. I heard a funny story from a buddy of mine that's an FO there who hasn't been furloughed yet. Something about one of the packs spewing smoke into the cabin while taxiing in STL and the crew ran the checklist, dropped the oxygen masks in the back and some of them fell onto the floor while others simply provided no oxygen when pulled. Anybody know if that's true and if it's related?


flynavyj
01-11-2009, 01:09 PM
LOL, tell me more.

freezingflyboy
01-11-2009, 01:20 PM
I think you're going to need a source more substantial than "my buddy who works there" for anyone to take this seriously.


johnso29
01-11-2009, 01:41 PM
With the operation HK runs, it wouldn't suprise me at all.

Copperhed51
01-11-2009, 01:48 PM
I'm not going to tell you who told me that story. All I can tell you is he is definitely an FO there and it wasn't on his flight. That's why I'm asking for validation. I can however guarantee you that the info about the $500,000 fine is true and I'm sure any other waterskiers on here can as well.

crustacean
01-11-2009, 01:51 PM
I'm not going to tell you who told me that story. All I can tell you is he is definitely an FO there and it wasn't on his flight. That's why I'm asking for validation. I can however guarantee you that the info about the $500,000 fine is true and I'm sure any other waterskiers on here can as well.

Yep, saw that in the VARS message sent yesterday.

Our concerns also seem to be emulated by the FAA who is aware of the serious maintenance problems at both Trans States and Gojet and are aggressively pursuing them. Just recently the FAA issued a $500,000 civil penalty. The FAA is investigating and pursuing
Maintenance Control, Dispatchers and other personnel.

ToiletDuck
01-11-2009, 02:32 PM
I think you're going to need a source more substantial than "my buddy who works there" for anyone to take this seriously.

I dunno outside of working there yourself I can't really think of anything more reliable than knowing someone else who does that has first hand knowledge.

freezingflyboy
01-11-2009, 03:17 PM
I dunno outside of working there yourself I can't really think of anything more reliable than knowing someone else who does that has first hand knowledge.

I meant something along the lines of a public disclosure (which I believe the FAA/DOT publishes in these cases) or news article citing said disclosure. I don't doubt that this person believes what they were told by their friend or that their friend is telling the truth. Just for me, as someone who doesn't personally know either party in question, I need just a little more substantiation.

Positive_Rate
01-11-2009, 04:14 PM
Also heard that RZ chewed the pilots out for dropping the masks because it wasn't in the QRH...but he's been chewing out a lot of people because of write-ups lately. He called the 10 CAs with the highest amount of writeups just to 'talk'.

johnso29
01-11-2009, 04:27 PM
Also heard that RZ chewed the pilots out for dropping the masks because it wasn't in the QRH...but he's been chewing out a lot of people because of write-ups lately. He called the 10 CAs with the highest amount of writeups just to 'talk'.

Guess this RZ doesn't like the CA's write-ups revealing the shoddy mx practices of HK's circus. :rolleyes:

RAHPilot5
01-11-2009, 04:29 PM
sad:eek::eek:

Killer51883
01-11-2009, 04:32 PM
sad but not very surprising...

DryMotorBoatin
01-11-2009, 07:46 PM
RZ+MW+HK=Amateur hour. You know things aren't gonna go right with those jackals "in charge"

Foxcow
01-11-2009, 08:51 PM
MX has gotten far worse. Every single airplane that I have gotten in for the past few weeks has been broken in one way or another.

Since they are letting the place go, maybe the writing is on the wall.

kalyx522
01-11-2009, 09:20 PM
Since they are letting the place go, maybe the writing is on the wall.

What do you mean? What's going to happen to TSA?

obx41
01-11-2009, 09:29 PM
Why in the world would you deploy the masks if you're on the ground with smoke in the cabin? Stop the airplane, set the parking brake, and run the emergency evac checklist or memory item. It makes no sense to deploy a mask that does absolutely nothing to seal out smoke or toxic fumes.

CaptainCarl
01-12-2009, 03:04 AM
:D Hahaha! Maintenance in Dulles is such a joke. I was talking to the only guy there who knows what he is doing (he's ex-ExpressJet maintenance) and he admitted that the rest of the crew he works with doesn't really have a clue. Apparently he is teaching them as they go. "This is an FMS." "Ooo, ahh..."

Anyways, I've got six words regarding my time at Trans States: Free at last, free at last!

Foxcow
01-12-2009, 03:39 AM
Why in the world would you deploy the masks if you're on the ground with smoke in the cabin? Stop the airplane, set the parking brake, and run the emergency evac checklist or memory item. It makes no sense to deploy a mask that does absolutely nothing to seal out smoke or toxic fumes.



I know the guy that it happened to. They were fresh off the ground when the FA called up with smoke in the cabin. They did what they were supposed to but smoke was still pouring in so he did what he had to do.

Foxcow
01-12-2009, 03:40 AM
What do you mean? What's going to happen to TSA?




Who knows. MX is non-existant and staffing is less than skeletal so who knows.

StraightShooter
01-12-2009, 04:34 AM
Why in the world would you deploy the masks if you're on the ground with smoke in the cabin? Stop the airplane, set the parking brake, and run the emergency evac checklist or memory item. It makes no sense to deploy a mask that does absolutely nothing to seal out smoke or toxic fumes.


"Attention ladies and gentlemen, please put on your oxygen mask, breath normally. We will be arriving at the gate momentarily for an on-time arrival. Until then, don't panic, breath normal, and follow your flight attendants instructions."

Idiots!

Why on EARTH would you deploy the masks on the ground? All it does is add oxygen to what ever may be burning.

Avroman
01-12-2009, 05:42 AM
Also heard that RZ chewed the pilots out for dropping the masks because it wasn't in the QRH...but he's been chewing out a lot of people because of write-ups lately. He called the 10 CAs with the highest amount of writeups just to 'talk'.

If things really are that bad, I'd be taking that as a challenge to write up even more things..... Just like the shoddy 135 outfit I used to work at.

Foxcow
01-12-2009, 10:16 AM
I am pretty sure they are trying to file suit against ALPA for an illegal job action as a result in the increased write ups. I always figured it was elementary knowledge that if you didn't take care of something, it was going to die or break down. Maybe none of those management idiots never had a puppy when they were kids.

Copperhed51
01-12-2009, 12:33 PM
I am pretty sure they are trying to file suit against ALPA for an illegal job action as a result in the increased write ups. I always figured it was elementary knowledge that if you didn't take care of something, it was going to die or break down. Maybe none of those management idiots never had a puppy when they were kids.

I'm sure Hulas had lots of puppies when he was a kid. He had them for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Seriously though, in what world do these jokers think it's ok to pressure us into not writing up aircraft. If it's broken, it gets written up. The only illegal thing would be if people were purposely causing things to happen to write up the plane. There's no way they'll win a suit against ALPA. My last couple of weeks before my furlough, I was sure to write up every little thing that needed to be written up because I wasn't about to have management get rid of me while I was a probie because I was overlooking mx discrepencies. I'm just disgusted with TSA these days.

DryMotorBoatin
01-12-2009, 01:29 PM
Is there any truth to the rumor that HK plans to pay the fine in pennies? I know thats how I stuck it to the man in high school when I had a library fine.

Positive_Rate
01-12-2009, 02:52 PM
I'm in recurrent for TSA this week. The fine is true and it's not just for TSA but for the entire holding company, even though since the TS side of the family is the only one making money, it'll come out of our coffers. MX write ups are DOUBLE what they were last year, according to a union rep.

I was also disgusted today when I walked by the new GJ new-hire class and saw a former TSA-FO or two sitting there laughing and carrying on with their newfound scumy friends.

Purpleanga
01-12-2009, 03:52 PM
I was also disgusted today when I walked by the new GJ new-hire class and saw a former TSA-FO or two sitting there laughing and carrying on with their newfound scumy friends.

You can't blame those guys, they flew a trip or two for IOE and spend the rest of their short time on reserve before they were furloughed. They probably identify with TSA as much as someone from the streets. I have a feeling GJ or TSA will be gone by next year anyways.. somethings got to give from all the things you see happening at TSH.

Foxcow
01-12-2009, 03:53 PM
Might as well lock this thread right now.

Mason32
01-12-2009, 04:06 PM
Couldn't have anything to do with an aging fleet either? Those jungle jets were basically ten-fifteen year throw aways to begin with... they are all on borrowed time.

Pilotpip
01-12-2009, 04:09 PM
Mason, GJ was fined big time for an undocumented engine change and violating an inspection required per AD about the same time that the MD-80 stuff at AA was going on.

But that was a different company...

RuttR
01-12-2009, 06:23 PM
They'll just find another loop hole in our contract to pay for it. These MX fines are all factored in the budget i'm sure.

bryris
01-12-2009, 06:37 PM
Couldn't have anything to do with an aging fleet either? Those jungle jets were basically ten-fifteen year throw aways to begin with... they are all on borrowed time.

Are you a mechanic? Is it laden with time sensitive parts that become cost prohibitive to replace after X flight hours?

Why would an airplane be considered "throw away"? Seems like if you maintain them (TSA leaves much to be desired in this area), you could keep them in the air as long as it was financially feasible.

Copperhed51
01-12-2009, 08:53 PM
Didn't Trans States maintenance win the Diamond Award of Excellence or some crap every year for a really long time? Is that an award Hulie hammered out of copper pipes in his garage or something?

ToiletDuck
01-12-2009, 09:32 PM
Idiots!

Why on EARTH would you deploy the masks on the ground? All it does is add oxygen to what ever may be burning.

Smoke doesn't equal fire in all cases. I've had a pac bearing go out and smoke up the back while in flight to PHL. Wasn't bad enough to need oxygen or anything but it does just show one of any several things that can happen.

How fast do you think people actually evacuate? How fast do you think they'll evacuate when half dizzy from fumes or smoke? If the plane has smoke on it there's no logical reason not to drop the masks if it's severe. Get you a few breaths of fresh air so you can hold yourself long enough to make it out. People mostly know there's something in the air because they smell it first. This means they're already inhaling it. If it's mixed with a chemical, just like on the CAL deicing indecent recently, the oxygen might help. No one is saying to just sit in your chair and breath while the thing fills with smoke or burns down around you but those few seconds of breathing fresh air could save your life and all those trying to get out the exit behind you. Who cares about the costs associated or mx required afterward.

Just my .02 on the situation. Neither you nor I were there though so calling them idiots is nothing more than armchair quarterbacking.

mking84
01-13-2009, 06:06 AM
I think you're going to need a source more substantial than "my buddy who works there" for anyone to take this seriously.

Are you kidding me. If somebody told me their uncle's wifes, friends, hairdresser's nephew, who knows a guy that heard from a guy that this happend over at Hooley air.....I wouldnt be suprised.


The only true things about TSA are the bad ones. ;)

Happy travels.

Foxcow
01-13-2009, 07:34 AM
Didn't Trans States maintenance win the Diamond Award of Excellence or some crap every year for a really long time? Is that an award Hulie hammered out of copper pipes in his garage or something?



That award is just for how people are trained not for the performance of MX.


From the FAA website:

For Aviation Maintenance Technicians

All phases require that individuals attend a minimum of 2 hours of training on FAA regulations and policy in addition to satisfactory completion of the following for the level desired:

Diamond Award — Complete a college-level course of 3-credit hours or 40 classroom hours in mathematics, english, science, safety, human factors, management subjects, or similar career-related maintenance courses; and one of the following:

* A 10-day industry aviation maintenance course
* 58 hours of aviation industry maintenance training
* Teach at least 15 hours of aviation industry maintenance training


Its in the same league as bragging about the company never missing a paycheck (last July, I had a flight manager in the jumpseat tell me that is one reason why this company is a good company).

varkfxr
01-15-2009, 04:42 PM
So if this award is not for the performane of MX, but for training, what award should they get for their performance?????

DryMotorBoatin
01-15-2009, 05:40 PM
no award necessary.

Foxcow
01-15-2009, 05:46 PM
So if this award is not for the performane of MX, but for training, what award should they get for their performance?????




Thats where the fines come in! :D

rollercoaster
01-15-2009, 10:06 PM
That award is just for how people are trained not for the performance of MX.


From the FAA website:

For Aviation Maintenance Technicians

All phases require that individuals attend a minimum of 2 hours of training on FAA regulations and policy in addition to satisfactory completion of the following for the level desired:

Diamond Award Complete a college-level course of 3-credit hours or 40 classroom hours in mathematics, english, science, safety, human factors, management subjects, or similar career-related maintenance courses; and one of the following:

* A 10-day industry aviation maintenance course
* 58 hours of aviation industry maintenance training
* Teach at least 15 hours of aviation industry maintenance training

Its in the same league as bragging about the company never missing a paycheck (last July, I had a flight manager in the jumpseat tell me that is one reason why this company is a good company).

Yes it's just a worthless paperwork award. The 'employer' Diamond award criteria is listed just below the 'individual' AMT award criteria you quoted. (not that anyone gives a &@+$ @$$ ;))

For Employers

The FAA award for employers is the Certificate of Excellence. Each level or phase is based on the number of eligible employees that get an AMT award:
Gold Certificate of Excellence 50 percent employee participation
Diamond Certificate of Excellence 100 percent employee participationAviation Maintenance Technician (AMT) Award (http://www.faa.gov/safety/awards/amt/)

ToiletDuck
01-15-2009, 10:24 PM
So if this award is not for the performane of MX, but for training, what award should they get for their performance?????

The knowledge their beloved flight crews are kept safe from danger is reward enough.

varkfxr
01-16-2009, 02:16 AM
So I am assuming that their biggest award is knowing that their abilities instill confidence and trust. And the crews appreciate them for a job well done.....



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