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acl65pilot
07-26-2011, 07:28 PM
acl, this is not directed at you, but it constantly amazes me that pilots think ALPA is some Fairy Godmother that can prevent any ill from ever afflicting every member, regardless of the external circumstances.

I have news for you. Bankruptcy SUCKS! And when you look at all the hits we've taken the past 10 years, there's your cause. Pilots at LUV, FDX, and UPS have great pay rates and benefits because they've continued to be incredibly profitable the past XX years. It has nothing to do with the strength of their pilot group or the shrewdness of their union.

And to think otherwise is naive.



Correct, and many pilots are judging ALPA on the last decade. Not one legacy carrier has had a successful completion of a section 6 in many years.

It is also time to realize we work for a successful international airline, and with that fact, it is time to move beyond bankruptcy type of agreements.

Furthermore, if it is the desire of some to go in to a 3-5% per year bump, that may be a acceptable way to go, but the base needs to be reset about that of SWA before doing so.


80ktsClamp
07-26-2011, 07:34 PM
Correct, and many pilots are judging ALPA on the last decade. Not one legacy carrier has had a successful completion of a section 6 in many years.

It is also time to realize we work for a successful international airline, and with that fact, it is time to move beyond bankruptcy type of agreements.

Furthermore, if it is the desire of some to go in to a 3-5% per year bump, that may be a acceptable way to go, but the base needs to be reset about that of SWA before doing so.

AMEN, brotha ACL!

Boomer
07-26-2011, 07:36 PM
For those of you wondering if it is possible to have underboob on a painted on swimsuit, here is your answer:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/pr/subs/swimsuit/images/11/D6ACIQ8A9QcASW.jpg

and one more for bonus:

http://www.ouchnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/kate-upton.jpg

Clamp,

You are -and always will be- my hero.


Boomer
07-26-2011, 07:42 PM
The ALPA-PAC is all about electing far-left politicians. That's not an appropriate function of an Airline Pilot's union.

Carl

If I wanted to send money to the Lefties, I'd channel it through Hollywood instead of ALPA-PAC. Two movie tickets at a time.

Pineapple Guy
07-26-2011, 07:44 PM
]
Read above. Because clearly, bankruptcy is not always the cause.

Carl

Good point. Impending liquidation is another cause.

FmrFreightDog
07-26-2011, 08:18 PM
Thank Check, Uncle, and ACL for the responses on the rest day guys. Appreciate the info. As it stands, it's looking like I'm ripe for a 4 day that starts well after noon on the 28th. If I get a call for anything reporting less than 12 hours after my rest ends I'll call the office for an official ruling before I acknowledge and report back.

FmrFreightDog
07-26-2011, 08:24 PM
Nevermind. My sense of humor dulls significantly after 10 PM....

Carl Spackler
07-26-2011, 08:28 PM
Good point. Impending liquidation is another cause.

You're still ignoring the point. TWA is the point. Jury verdicts are the point. Making things up about impending liquidation is just ignorance.

Anyone else notice the stunning silence of Pineapple Guy and the other usual suspects over the TWA verdict?

Famous movie quote: "If you build it, they will come."
Famous ALPA quote: "If you ignore it, it never happened."

Carl

newKnow
07-26-2011, 08:32 PM
acl, this is not directed at you, but it constantly amazes me that pilots think ALPA is some Fairy Godmother that can prevent any ill from ever afflicting every member, regardless of the external circumstances.

I have news for you. Bankruptcy SUCKS! And when you look at all the hits we've taken the past 10 years, there's your cause. Pilots at LUV, FDX, and UPS have great pay rates and benefits because they've continued to be incredibly profitable the past XX years. It has nothing to do with the strength of their pilot group or the shrewdness of their union.

And to think otherwise is naive.

Pineapple,

We all know of the external circumstances. We all know how bankruptcy sucks. We were there.

But, ACL was talking about a distrust that some members are feeling about what they are hearing (or, not hearing) from ALPA.

I believe it would go a long way if -- instead of you and others looking to the past to come up with reasons as to why we are where we are -- you looked to today and the future as to why we can do better and should ask for more (a lot more).

DPA is out there because something just doesn't feel right and this is the heart of the matter. Why is ANY Delta pilot defending our current state so close to openers? We are paid too little, and we don't do enough of our flying. Period.

If we are where we are because of a bankruptcy that occurred, fine. Due in large part to us, the company is out of bankruptcy and it's time to secure our flying and pay. Period.

If you and/or a few other guys would just once say, "I believe we should open with SWA pay for our 88 drivers - plus 10%, and make a big play at re-capturing 70 seat flying...."

1.) Carl (the real one) would fall out of his seat,

2.) DAL 88 would spit coffee all over his computer screen,

3.) You would be stating what a vast majority of DAL pilots believe, &

4.) The DPA would be forced to wait to pass judgment on ALPA until openers.


DALPA cannot defend itself from the DPA by attacking it or its supporters, or even rationalizing why we are where we are. DALPA can only defend itself by representing Delta pilots right now and getting a kick ass contract with SWA type payrates and iron clad scope.

I believe you have to start enunciating this ^^^^ more.

Come on. Just say something like that, just one time. Please.

Even if #4 didn't occur, wouldn't #1 be worth it to you? ;)

forgot to bid
07-26-2011, 08:34 PM
How many points does 80 get for posting pictures of a girl in a bikini that was painted on?

Probably fewer than you think. Notice it's cnnsi, you can look the photos up. 80 is holding out. There are a lot better pictures.

Just saying.

Bro's before Eskimos.

forgot to bid
07-26-2011, 08:42 PM
It's equally disgusting that ALPA pilotslots aren't adequately supporting their own political action committee.

Standing by for the same weak rationalization.

Uh no. Flat out no. We can shut that thing down as far as I am concerned.

forgot to bid
07-26-2011, 09:05 PM
I agree with you man, but please understand that ALPA is the main reason people like this exist! Imagine the minds that could be changed if there were constant fact-based letters from ALPA explaining exactly why Scope relaxation hurts EVERYONE. Why doesn't ALPA do this? They've written some beautiful fact-based documents lately hoping to "educate" us on the process, our contract history, etc. This is proof that they have it in them. They ARE capable of it. But they WILL NOT do this with regard to Scope. Why?

You cannot minimize the impact ALPA's failure to communicate on scope has on the creation and furtherance of these Captain Clueslesses. DPA is 100% clear on this issue. It is why DPA is happening in the first place. ALPA could kill DPA with a series of Scope education letters, but they won't...because they can't

Carl

It is kind of damning is it not? Never a real comment on scope. And surely not from ALPA National.

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/ForgottoBid/temp7-2.jpg?t=1311743020

As to this Captain, the thing that bothers me is you know the FUPM phrase. Half of it is directed towards pilots and the other half to management.

He may not realize he's saying it, but it's what's on his mind and in his heart, he wants to vote for furloughs if it'll give him more money.

Boomer
07-26-2011, 09:15 PM
http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/ForgottoBid/temp7-2.jpg?t=1311743020


I wasn't supposed to bring this up... but if you look real close, you can just make out the huge R in front of ALPA in that emblem.

I would tell you what the R stands for, but then they would go after my family.

N9373M
07-27-2011, 02:22 AM
Friend sent this to me. Used to stay up late and watch it as a kid......

Just thought I'd remind everyone why we do what we do.....

Ferd

1960s TV Sign Off // Current (http://current.com/groups/on-current-tv/76392662_1960s-tv-sign-off.htm)

Thanks Ferd,

that brought back some great memories - probably partially why I fly. I also remember the National Anthem in a theater before the movie, and dad pulling the car off to the side of the road on base during taps (MCAS Beaufort - Fightertown!)

N9373M
07-27-2011, 02:28 AM
It's better than when I was growing up. You didn't want to see that sign off. It just meant the demons could reach out and grab you and suck you back into the tv. Thank you Hollywood for many a nightmare. aholes.

Crud - there was that too. ;)

KC10 FATboy
07-27-2011, 02:30 AM
Weird ...

Southwest: Breakdown is now an act of God (http://azstarnet.com/news/local/article_5bc41260-e1ee-57fb-8f68-fe716e9f5bad.html)

New SWA slogan ... "On a Wing and a Prayer"

sailingfun
07-27-2011, 02:57 AM
Sailing;

What are you trying to say here?

I am reading between the lines, and what I get is: Delta sucks and is stupid. Gas prices will screw us again.

SWA is predatory and we are just a bunch of honest boyscouts.

Is that about right?

What I am trying to say is that airline management has not gotten smarter. The playing field simply became more level. Had Delta been hedged we would have done the same thing. In fact we attempted to put USAIR out of business. We kept fares low in their markets and used up the huge pile of cash we were sitting on thinking we would drive them out of Business. Like SW we also failed at that strategy. To make matters worse it was basically Leo's only strategy which left us near liquidation with chapter 11 as the only option. Even then they delayed entry into Chapter 11 way to long trying to protect their precious stock options. USAIR fired back and fired back hard at Delta in intensive care and except for the arrogance and stupidity of Parker we would all be using a Cactus call sign today if the giant mess that would have created even survived to this point.

nerd2009
07-27-2011, 03:36 AM
Cool! I think my seniority would be better in LAX, so the commute would be great... Can I get free parking in MLB? Oh... you were talking about the OTHER Melbourne :(
Tee,

MLB is $200 per year.

Pineapple Guy
07-27-2011, 03:56 AM
Pineapple,

We all know of the external circumstances. We all know how bankruptcy sucks. We were there.

Then quit ignoring that fact, and blaming everything on ALPA.

But, ACL was talking about a distrust that some members are feeling about what they are hearing (or, not hearing) from ALPA.

I believe it would go a long way if -- instead of you and others looking to the past to come up with reasons as to why we are where we are -- you looked to today and the future as to why we can do better and should ask for more (a lot more).

We haven't even exchanged openers or polled the pilots.

We are paid too little, and we don't do enough of our flying. Period.

If we are where we are because of a bankruptcy that occurred, fine. Due in large part to us, the company is out of bankruptcy and it's time to secure our flying and pay. Period.

I completely agree on both accounts.

If you and/or a few other guys would just once say, "I believe we should open with SWA pay for our 88 drivers - plus 10%, and make a big play at re-capturing 70 seat flying...."

1.) Carl (the real one) would fall out of his seat,

2.) DAL 88 would spit coffee all over his computer screen,

3.) You would be stating what a vast majority of DAL pilots believe, &

4.) The DPA would be forced to wait to pass judgment on ALPA until openers.

I believe we should open at SWA + 10% (at an absolute minimum).
I also believe we should clearly state "not one more jet, not one more seat, not one more pound" as it relates to RJs, and I'm willing to try to buy back the flying we lost in bankruptcy (reset the line to 70 seats) but not willing to buy back the flying we've never owned (70 and below).

That is all personal opinion - I'm not an elected rep, and they will be determining what our priorities are after reviewing the results of 12000 pilots input via the survey. I have absolutely zero doubt that our opener will reflect the will of the 12000 pilots because I believe in our elected reps. The ones I vote for, and the ones each pilot votes for. They control the agenda, they control the timeline, and they will control the opener.


DALPA cannot defend itself from the DPA by attacking it or its supporters, or even rationalizing why we are where we are. DALPA can only defend itself by representing Delta pilots right now and getting a kick ass contract with SWA type payrates and iron clad scope.

I believe you have to start enunciating this ^^^^ more.

Come on. Just say something like that, just one time. Please.

Even if #4 didn't occur, wouldn't #1 be worth it to you? ;)

I agree with everything you said. I/we are really not the enemy, and I/we want the exact same things you want.

Now its your turn. When is DPA going to stop dividing the pilot group and stand together united so that we can actually achieve these things?

nerd2009
07-27-2011, 04:13 AM
How do post a picture,..:confused::confused:

tsquare
07-27-2011, 04:22 AM
Sounds like a plausible idea, but no one shows up to an LEC meeting so how would anyone recall anybody?

Maybe THAT's why they "can't" have web based meetings....

forgot to bid
07-27-2011, 04:31 AM
Delta Air Lines Announces June Quarter Profit
Company produces quarterly profit despite more than $1 billion higher fuel expense

Jul 27, 2011

ATLANTA, July 27, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL) today reported financial results for the June 2011 quarter. Key points include:

Delta's net income for the June 2011 quarter was $366 million, or $0.43 per diluted share, excluding special items(1).
Delta's net income was $198 million, or $0.23 per diluted share, for the June 2011 quarter.
Strong top line revenue growth of 12% year over year helped offset more than $1 billion higher fuel expense.
Delta generated a revenue premium, with unit revenues up 10% for the quarter.
Delta generated $1 billion of operating cash flow and $700 million in free cash flow in the quarter. The company ended the June 2011 quarter with $5.6 billion in unrestricted liquidity.

"High fuel prices are putting significant pressure on the industry, but the benefits of Delta’s strategic actions and the dedication of Delta employees are evident in the solid profit we produced despite more than $1 billion in higher fuel expense," said Richard Anderson, Delta's chief executive officer. "Our revenue momentum, coupled with the capacity reductions we are making in September and actions to get our non-fuel costs to 2010 levels, will generate the margins we need to hit our return targets."

Press Release: Delta Air Lines Announces June Quarter Profit - Jul 27, 2011 (http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1417)

forgot to bid
07-27-2011, 04:33 AM
I wasn't supposed to bring this up... but if you look real close, you can just make out the huge R in front of ALPA in that emblem.

I would tell you what the R stands for, but then they would go after my family.

I do believe you're right.

But sorry I may have just put your family in danger. Good luck. :D

forgot to bid
07-27-2011, 04:39 AM
How do post a picture,..:confused::confused:

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/ForgottoBid/temp2-15.jpg?t=1311770495

Make sure you don't hit Copy Image but Copy Image Location. You need the address for it to work.

Maddoggin
07-27-2011, 04:57 AM
Flying with a captain who had an LEC rep on the jumpseat about a month ago. Told him that basically they have been working on an upcoming merger for a while. Captains impression was this wasn't just for due diligence but rather working on the details of it.Asked if it was Alaska or Hawaiian, rep said neither but would not say who....place your bets....who and when??!! And NO, I cant say who the rep was.

While I have no info on who the potential merger partner would be I do think further consolidation is in our future in the next couple of years. My theory is we won't ever see a 2012 contract before another merger. They will delay the process long enough to find another merger partner. Management has learned that including the pilots up front with regards to the merger is a must. They would rather delay Contract 2012 and give contract improvement in the form of a JCBA a couple of years later. They will try to avoid at all cost a big Contract 2012 increase and then another increase via a JCBA. Not what I would like to see but it is the way I see it going down.

johnso29
07-27-2011, 04:59 AM
I need coffee. :D

Elvis90
07-27-2011, 05:12 AM
Or stock may get hammered today. We fell .23 cents SHORT of analysts expectations.

"The carrier said second-quarter net income excluding items was $366 million, or 43 cents a share. Analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters had estimated 44 cents. Revenue rose 12% to $9.15 billion, in line with estimates."

"Including items, net income was $198 million, or 23 cents a share. In the same quarter a year earlier, net income was $467 million, or 55 cents a share. Special items of $168 million included $80 million in severance and related costs, and $64 million for facilities consolidation and fleet reduction."

No, I think we were 1 penny short according to Reuters. Am I reading this wrong?

johnso29
07-27-2011, 05:17 AM
"The carrier said second-quarter net income excluding items was $366 million, or 43 cents a share. Analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters had estimated 44 cents. Revenue rose 12% to $9.15 billion, in line with estimates."

"Including items, net income was $198 million, or 23 cents a share. In the same quarter a year earlier, net income was $467 million, or 55 cents a share. Special items of $168 million included $80 million in severance and related costs, and $64 million for facilities consolidation and fleet reduction."

No, I think we were 1 penny short according to Reuters. Am I reading this wrong?

Thanks Elvis. All I did was look at the net income of $198 mil. I really shouldn't try to read this stuff before I've had my coffee. :D

Elvis90
07-27-2011, 05:19 AM
I need coffee. :D

I already had mine...early riser. :D Definitely helps!

Enemyofthestate
07-27-2011, 05:36 AM
While I have no info on who the potential merger partner would be I do think further consolidation is in our future in the next couple of years. My theory is we won't ever see a 2012 contract before another merger. They will delay the process long enough to find another merger partner. Management has learned that including the pilots up front with regards to the merger is a must. They would rather delay Contract 2012 and give contract improvement in the form of a JCBA a couple of years later. They will try to avoid at all cost a big Contract 2012 increase and then another increase via a JCBA. Not what I would like to see but it is the way I see it going down.

Called my rep and asked directly and he said they have not been informed of any ongoing merger talks and and speculation is just that. Said alleged JS rep was either making stuff up or had information the rest of the union does not. Could it have been a former rep now on the merger committee?

Check Essential
07-27-2011, 05:40 AM
Earnings call in 20 minutes.
Listen to our fearless leaders:

Investor Relations - Event Details (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?p=irol-eventDetails&c=71481&eventID=4158699)

A nice piano concerto on there right now. :)

Why is it never rock n' roll?

johnso29
07-27-2011, 05:43 AM
Called my rep and asked directly and he said they have not been informed of any ongoing merger talks and and speculation is just that. Said alleged JS rep was either making stuff up or had information the rest of the union does not. Could it have been a former rep now on the merger committee?

Honestly, if they knew about it I really don't think they'd be able to tell you anyway. Pesky non disclosure agreements. ;)

Check Essential
07-27-2011, 06:06 AM
Uh oh.

More capacity reductions than previously announced.
Significantly more. Q4 will be down 20% from peak summer. Did he just say that?

johnso29
07-27-2011, 06:07 AM
Hard to believe we STILL have $13.8 BILLION in debt. How does this happen within 5 years of exiting BK?

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 06:07 AM
Maybe THAT's why they "can't" have web based meetings....

I have said it before, and will say it again; ALPA National has heard us loud and clear on this desire, but there are legal issues, and end user security that they want to minimize before allowing this sort of medium to be the platform used. Things like a pilot blowing off steam that could be construed as a cal for illegal job action come to mind. The last thing any of us wants is to learn the lesson in a court of law where it could effect a pilots livelihood.

I do know that they are continually working on a solution to this. Of course many feel they are too slow, but I personally do not want them to rush to market on a program that may cost a pilot their job over one errant comment. I am sure that when they find a solution they will come forth with it. It is not a dead issue.

johnso29
07-27-2011, 06:08 AM
Uh oh.

More capacity reductions than previously announced.
Significantly more. Q4 will be down 20% from peak summer.

Meh. More RJ's being parked and EAS flying going bye-bye.

KC10 FATboy
07-27-2011, 06:08 AM
366 million dollar profit for this quarter.

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 06:10 AM
I believe we should open at SWA + 10% (at an absolute minimum).
I also believe we should clearly state "not one more jet, not one more seat, not one more pound" as it relates to RJs, and I'm willing to try to buy back the flying we lost in bankruptcy (reset the line to 70 seats) but not willing to buy back the flying we've never owned (70 and below).
I want to correct this, or add to it. It is now 65 and below since they took seats out of the 70 seat jets and added a first class.

Also, according to some, at one point we owned none of it, so let be careful how we argue this.

As for SWA+10, I think we will open above that and do not see this pilot group voting in a TA that does anything except what you state above; SWA+10%


That is all personal opinion - I'm not an elected rep, and they will be determining what our priorities are after reviewing the results of 12000 pilots input via the survey. I have absolutely zero doubt that our opener will reflect the will of the 12000 pilots because I believe in our elected reps. The ones I vote for, and the ones each pilot votes for. They control the agenda, they control the timeline, and they will control the opener.

They do and that is why it is imperative that the pilot group hold them accountable.

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 06:12 AM
Uh oh.

More capacity reductions than previously announced.
Significantly more. Q4 will be down 20% from peak summer. Did he just say that?

As I suspected.......................

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 06:13 AM
Investors are not happy, DAL's stock is going to 52 week lows very quickly.

johnso29
07-27-2011, 06:15 AM
Uh oh.

More capacity reductions than previously announced.
Significantly more. Q4 will be down 20% from peak summer. Did he just say that?

Investors are not happy, DAL's stock is going to 52 week lows very quickly.

Bingo. Have to keep them happy. JB's stock got HAMMERED yesterday after they fell short of expectations.

tsquare
07-27-2011, 06:24 AM
I have said it before, and will say it again; ALPA National has heard us loud and clear on this desire, but there are legal issues, and end user security that they want to minimize before allowing this sort of medium to be the platform used. Things like a pilot blowing off steam that could be construed as a cal for illegal job action come to mind. The last thing any of us wants is to learn the lesson in a court of law where it could effect a pilots livelihood.

I do know that they are continually working on a solution to this. Of course many feel they are too slow, but I personally do not want them to rush to market on a program that may cost a pilot their job over one errant comment. I am sure that when they find a solution they will come forth with it. It is not a dead issue.

I think a restructuring of LECs is a more practical solution. (For example) With so many commuters in Florida, and zero bases here, it would make more sense to have chapters in a city closest to the largest density of those homesteads. This, and go to block representation so that no particular LEC garners too much power.. unlike today's situation. (ATL) I am sure though, that something like that won't even be considered, because the system we have in place has been in place for decades, and even though the industry has changed, the union once again has the perfect setup, and knows what's best. :rolleyes:

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 06:24 AM
While I have no info on who the potential merger partner would be I do think further consolidation is in our future in the next couple of years. My theory is we won't ever see a 2012 contract before another merger. They will delay the process long enough to find another merger partner. Management has learned that including the pilots up front with regards to the merger is a must. They would rather delay Contract 2012 and give contract improvement in the form of a JCBA a couple of years later. They will try to avoid at all cost a big Contract 2012 increase and then another increase via a JCBA. Not what I would like to see but it is the way I see it going down.


Remember that any new acquisition will not be to the level of the NWA/DAL merger. We will be buying someone smaller. I do not think the DOJ would allow us to merger with someone like AMR.

Check Essential
07-27-2011, 06:25 AM
Retiring 140 airplanes. Half this year and half in 2012.
Mostly RJs so that's good, but isn't that a bigger number than we've heard before?

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 06:26 AM
I think a restructuring of LECs is a more practical solution. (For example) With so many commuters in Florida, and zero bases here, it would make more sense to have chapters in a city closest to the largest density of those homesteads. This, and go to block representation so that no particular LEC garners too much power.. unlike today's situation. (ATL) I am sure though, that something like that won't even be considered, because the system we have in place has been in place for decades, and even though the industry has changed, the union once again has the perfect setup, and knows what's best. :rolleyes:


That would require a rewrite of the by-laws, because LEC are designed to protect the interests of those flying out of a base. By doing what you suggest, that intent is gone, and now it becomes a geographic location.

tsquare
07-27-2011, 06:27 AM
Investors are not happy, DAL's stock is going to 52 week lows very quickly.

Buy buy buy! (http://www.cnbc.com/id/18724672/)

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 06:28 AM
Retiring 140 airplanes. Half this year and half in 2012.
Mostly RJs so that's good, but isn't that a bigger number than we've heard before?

They are including the DC-9 a few 88's a few 757's (5500 block), and at least two if not three 744's in that figure.

I know they were going to park 12 ER's this winter.

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 06:29 AM
Buy buy buy! (http://www.cnbc.com/id/18724672/)

I already bought in.....:eek:

In reality I bought and sold, and will buy agan. Down 68 right now.

tsquare
07-27-2011, 06:31 AM
That would require a rewrite of the by-laws, because LEC are designed to protect the interests of those flying out of a base. By doing what you suggest, that intent is gone, and now it becomes a geographic location.

You came back with a response pretty quickly. Just like the union, it's easy to just say no isn't it without any consideration for the idea... :rolleyes: And you wonder why the doughnuts are gaining in popularity.

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 06:34 AM
You came back with a response pretty quickly. Just like the union, it's easy to just say no isn't it without any consideration for the idea... :rolleyes: And you wonder why the doughnuts are gaining in popularity.

It was quick because I check on it quite often. I agree with the desire and need, but I want it done right.

As doe DPA, I can only say that DPA has become whatever you want it to become. That in itself is dangerous.

Columbia
07-27-2011, 06:35 AM
Investors are not happy, DAL's stock is going to 52 week lows very quickly.
What could this mean?
"and payments to regional partners also rose."

Went in for another 500 at $7.32.

Lone Palm
07-27-2011, 06:38 AM
Meh. More RJ's being parked and EAS flying going bye-bye.


And Saaaaabbbss

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 06:44 AM
What could this mean?
"and payments to regional partners also rose."

Went in for another 500 at $7.32.

If my online trading would work, I would be buying a lot more than that.....

tsquare
07-27-2011, 06:55 AM
It was quick because I check on it quite often. I agree with the desire and need, but I want it done right.

As doe DPA, I can only say that DPA has become whatever you want it to become. That in itself is dangerous.

Of course you check it often. With over 14,000 posts to your credit, that is painfully obvious. The problem I have with such a quick response is that it highlights your intense desire to maintain the status quo regardless of whether or not there might be a better idea out there. I could be all wet in this idea, I dunno, but your lightning fast response is endemic of the same ones that I would expect from the union. Because we have always done something a particular way, that must mean that is the best way for it to be done. That is so much bullsqueeze.

You want it done right. Well duuuuuh, I do too. But what I do know is that with NYC and DTW being over 80% commuters, the base interest structure has a big weakness because the majority of those commuters are not involved so their interests are rarely heard. Franky, I think yours is a weak argument for the status quo, because of the lack of participation at the aforementioned bases. You want more people involved, all you have offered me is more study, and more roadblocks. Just like crewpass.... (couldn't resist that one)

Block representation would do away with homerism. It would be a more accurate representation of pilots from across the entire group. Perhaps a two house government would be appropriate, similar to a house/senate structure. Bases are the senate, and deal with base specific issues, and geographical LECs are the house where more voices get heard. Think outside the box for once.

What we have now is a relative vocal minority at the largest bases tend to get their issues heard directly by their representatives. Point is, I am not going to get on an airplane and fly to NY to attend an LEC meeting for the usual dry meaningless meetings that occur. I have been to some, and it is a waste of my day off. (Standing by for the usual retort to this)

freightguy
07-27-2011, 07:01 AM
If my online trading would work, I would be buying a lot more than that.....

I agree and I just did!

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 07:05 AM
Of course you check it often. With over 14,000 posts to your credit, that is painfully obvious. The problem I have with such a quick response is that it highlights your intense desire to maintain the status quo regardless of whether or not there might be a better idea out there. I could be all wet in this idea, I dunno, but your lightning fast response is endemic of the same ones that I would expect from the union. Because we have always done something a particular way, that must mean that is the best way for it to be done. That is so much bullsqueeze.

You want it done right. Well duuuuuh, I do too. But what I do know is that with NYC and DTW being over 80% commuters, the base interest structure has a big weakness because the majority of those commuters are not involved so their interests are rarely heard. Franky, I think yours is a weak argument for the status quo, because of the lack of participation at the aforementioned bases. You want more people involved, all you have offered me is more study, and more roadblocks. Just like crewpass.... (couldn't resist that one)

Block representation would do away with homerism. It would be a more accurate representation of pilots from across the entire group. Perhaps a two house government would be appropriate, similar to a house/senate structure. Bases are the senate, and deal with base specific issues, and geographical LECs are the house where more voices get heard. Think outside the box for once.

What we have now is a relative vocal minority at the largest bases tend to get their issues heard directly by their representatives. Point is, I am not going to get on an airplane and fly to NY to attend an LEC meeting for the usual dry meaningless meetings that occur. I have been to some, and it is a waste of my day off. (Standing by for the usual retort to this)

You ideas make sense on many levels, I suggest talking to your LEC Reps, and see if they can present a Resolution at the BOD in DC next month.

hoserpilot
07-27-2011, 07:14 AM
Of course you check it often. With over 14,000 posts to your credit, that is painfully obvious. The problem I have with such a quick response is that it highlights your intense desire to maintain the status quo regardless of whether or not there might be a better idea out there. I could be all wet in this idea, I dunno, but your lightning fast response is endemic of the same ones that I would expect from the union. Because we have always done something a particular way, that must mean that is the best way for it to be done. That is so much bullsqueeze.

You want it done right. Well duuuuuh, I do too. But what I do know is that with NYC and DTW being over 80% commuters, the base interest structure has a big weakness because the majority of those commuters are not involved so their interests are rarely heard. Franky, I think yours is a weak argument for the status quo, because of the lack of participation at the aforementioned bases. You want more people involved, all you have offered me is more study, and more roadblocks. Just like crewpass.... (couldn't resist that one)

Block representation would do away with homerism. It would be a more accurate representation of pilots from across the entire group. Perhaps a two house government would be appropriate, similar to a house/senate structure. Bases are the senate, and deal with base specific issues, and geographical LECs are the house where more voices get heard. Think outside the box for once.

What we have now is a relative vocal minority at the largest bases tend to get their issues heard directly by their representatives. Point is, I am not going to get on an airplane and fly to NY to attend an LEC meeting for the usual dry meaningless meetings that occur. I have been to some, and it is a waste of my day off. (Standing by for the usual retort to this)


T - I think you may have overreacted to ACL. I've been to a few meetings and have seen acl there as well. He is an active member trying to get things done for our group. I've seen him submit resolutions. Some pass, some fail. He uses a lot of his free time to research a subject and then comment on it here. Just because he has a quick answer doesn't make it wrong...or right. Maybe he has done the research and actually has some knowledge about the subject. I don't have any knowledge about any of this stuff. I am learning though. If we want something changed we unfortunately have to use the framework of our bloated union.

BTW, I have sent a DPA card in. I also believe changing our union so close to openers is a bad idea. If we get to the end of the year and DPA still does not have enough cards I would love for DPA to have a huge campaign to support our current structure through the contract talks and then come out swinging afterwards. We ask Dalpa to say and do the right thing, why not ask DPA to step up as well? What I mean by this is that there may be a time to step away from a divide and try to join forces for the greater good. Make sense?

NuGuy
07-27-2011, 07:30 AM
BTW, I have sent a DPA card in. I also believe changing our union so close to openers is a bad idea. If we get to the end of the year and DPA still does not have enough cards I would love for DPA to have a huge campaign to support our current structure through the contract talks and then come out swinging afterwards. We ask Dalpa to say and do the right thing, why not ask DPA to step up as well? What I mean by this is that there may be a time to step away from a divide and try to join forces for the greater good. Make sense?

Heyas Hoser,

My biggest problem with the DPA is that if they have the numbers and the support they say they do, then they should be able to rickroll practically ANY of the LECs with their own people.

Nu

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 07:31 AM
T - I think you may have overreacted to ACL. I've been to a few meetings and have seen acl there as well. He is an active member trying to get things done for our group. I've seen him submit resolutions. Some pass, some fail. He uses a lot of his free time to research a subject and then comment on it here. Just because he has a quick answer doesn't make it wrong...or right. Maybe he has done the research and actually has some knowledge about the subject. I don't have any knowledge about any of this stuff. I am learning though. If we want something changed we unfortunately have to use the framework of our bloated union.

BTW, I have sent a DPA card in. I also believe changing our union so close to openers is a bad idea. If we get to the end of the year and DPA still does not have enough cards I would love for DPA to have a huge campaign to support our current structure through the contract talks and then come out swinging afterwards. We ask Dalpa to say and do the right thing, why not ask DPA to step up as well? What I mean by this is that there may be a time to step away from a divide and try to join forces for the greater good. Make sense?


That makes a ton of sense. We have to be successful going though this section 6. All of our families depend on us getting a good contract.

I do thank you for the kind words, and you are correct. I am invested in this career and the success of this pilot group. I want to see hour union evolve and move forward. I want the pilots that are so fed up with the process to step up. It is not easy, but it has to be done to carry this profession forward.

I have seen you too at the LEC meetings. It is important to show up. We are seeing about 35 pilots per meeting. The 44 chair is trying to get the word out about the meetings prior to the bidding for that months schedule. It really is imperative to take three or four hours out of our day every three months to show up. When pilots show up, they can force the change they want. They cannot do it from home.

TANSTAAFL
07-27-2011, 07:37 AM
Honestly, if they knew about it I really don't think they'd be able to tell you anyway. Pesky non disclosure agreements. ;)

True dat, however there is a difference between saying there is nothing going on as opposed to "I can't comment" in response to a question.

tsquare
07-27-2011, 07:43 AM
It really is imperative to take three or four hours out of our day every three months to show up. When pilots show up, they can force the change they want. They cannot do it from home.

You just don't get it do you.

tsquare
07-27-2011, 07:45 AM
You ideas make sense on many levels, I suggest talking to your LEC Reps, and see if they can present a Resolution at the BOD in DC next month.


Yeah, like that'll ever happen... but OK.. I'll write something up. I wasted a few hundred hours on a LGBP proposal, so why not this too...

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 07:51 AM
Yeah, like that'll ever happen... but OK.. I'll write something up. I wasted a few hundred hours on a LGBP proposal, so why not this too...

It is not wasted time. It is my opinion that there is support to a modification to our current pay system. Also, have you sent that proposal to your new reps? If not I would.

I also "get" what you are getting at, but I am also telling you that, just because you "think/demand" it, does not mean the rest of your peers feel the same way. It takes a heck of a lot of work to get the changes you are seeking. Most do not want to put the work in, they just want others to do their bidding. That in effect is why we are where we are in our union. There is no "real" check and balance. For progress to happen, that needs to change.

forgot to bid
07-27-2011, 07:53 AM
The thing about replacing LEC reps is who do you replace them with. Most likely the guy you want replaced you never knew before but they did promise scope and pay, scope and pay, scope and pay. Now your options of people running are people you never knew before and they'll give you a letter that says scope and pay is their #1 priority. Then it just kind of disappears.

I have to agree with T, the union has a system in place that is impenetrable. Nobody is going to give up power and nobody is going to mess with the status quo and even if you do work within the system for change at the end of the day you're still ALPA.

I still can't understand that if we're smart enough to fly airliners and vote for the U.S. President why can't we directly vote for the MEC Chairman?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lVEYu7XwujA/TUSv8t8a1OI/AAAAAAAAAr4/TvT5NGH7400/s1600/dad7b317-0228-4a98-8aa6-2e9693149af2.jpeg

tsquare
07-27-2011, 08:02 AM
It is not wasted time. It is my opinion that there is support to a modification to our current pay system. Also, have you sent that proposal to your new reps? If not I would.

I also "get" what you are getting at, but I am also telling you that, just because you "think/demand" it, does not mean the rest of your peers feel the same way. It takes a heck of a lot of work to get the changes you are seeking. Most do not want to put the work in, they just want others to do their bidding. That in effect is why we are where we are in our union. There is no "real" check and balance. For progress to happen, that needs to change.

I have pretty much punted the idea of the LGBP proposal, so it is in a dead file around here somewhere. I was saying that I think there are too many barriers for that apple to be eaten all at once. Besides, with the looming parking of the 4 747s, it will be interesting to see how many guys take a haircut with the displacements.. I am warming up the Jiffypop for that. I think that maybe the WB/NB crowd has a more doable proposal anyway, and it would probably move us in a better direction.

You are probably right that many of my peers don't want the same things I do. The problem is that a lot of the fringe ideas out there never see the light of day, because of the strength of the union machinery to perpetuate the status quo as being the only way to do things. The "changes" I am "seeking" are one man's thoughts on how to get more pilots involved in the day to day process. It's very simple really, you have to make the meetings more accessible to the average guy, and continuing to have base meetings where the majority of guys are not physically located does nothing to promote this involvement. You can jump up and down and hold your breath all day and tell guys they need to get involved, but until you satisfy that ease of access, you are spitting in the wind.

But I am sure I am wrong....

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 08:10 AM
I have pretty much punted the idea of the LGBP proposal, so it is in a dead file around here somewhere. I was saying that I think there are too many barriers for that apple to be eaten all at once. Besides, with the looming parking of the 4 747s, it will be interesting to see how many guys take a haircut with the displacements.. I am warming up the Jiffypop for that. I think that maybe the WB/NB crowd has a more doable proposal anyway, and it would probably move us in a better direction.

You are probably right that many of my peers don't want the same things I do. The problem is that a lot of the fringe ideas out there never see the light of day, because of the strength of the union machinery to perpetuate the status quo as being the only way to do things. The "changes" I am "seeking" are one man's thoughts on how to get more pilots involved in the day to day process. It's very simple really, you have to make the meetings more accessible to the average guy, and continuing to have base meetings where the majority of guys are not physically located does nothing to promote this involvement. You can jump up and down and hold your breath all day and tell guys they need to get involved, but until you satisfy that ease of access, you are spitting in the wind.

But I am sure I am wrong....

You are not wrong, and I have been harping on accessibility since before I ran for the position. I would like to see meetings at the airport, not an airport hotel. I would like a web based meeting, where you can vote on a resolution via on line voting. Heck you could even do it via proxy, but there is a process to all of it to keep it above board. I agree we need to do better, and have to do better, but one or two guys, that bring up the issue twice a year is not going to get the issue solved. It takes a unified effort. It takes dealing with multiple issues at once and not focusing on the issue of the week and only that issue. It takes time, and work, and all of it will be without pay. It takes a group that believes in advocacy. Can we get there? Maybe, but unless we self motivate, the proverbial straw that gets everyone in line with you may be too great to take. By then the question will once again arise; "Does it matter?"

TenYearsGone
07-27-2011, 08:30 AM
Whatever??!! Wall Street can suck it! I for one am going to relish on the nice profit we made. Think about it, airlines lose money; and the street loves it. Airlines make money; the street dumps them. "f":eek: the street.

Btw, I have a feeling the doom and gloom is all about posturing and "setting" the pilots' expectations lower. WAKE UP, we made profit!!<--In this flimsy marketplace/economy.

TEN

DAWGS
07-27-2011, 09:03 AM
What is the best computer (netbook, tablet) to take on the road that easily accesses Deltanet, Icrew, travelnet, PBS etc..I want simplicity and a keyboard, also light weight. Mainly just for that purpose. I've noticed the tablets have some keyboards now that are sold separately. Just curious what others are using?

JABDIP
07-27-2011, 09:04 AM
B6, AS, or part of UsAir could work well for DAL. Problem with AS is they are freaking expensive!
My bet US air 330 operation to Europe!:eek::D

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 09:05 AM
My bet US air 330 operation to Europe!:eek::D

I agree. :D

gloopy
07-27-2011, 09:14 AM
My bet US air 330 operation to Europe!:eek::D

What would be the gain in that? USAir's Europe presence is paultry compared to ours and most of our competitors. Maybe the terms on the planes are favorable? But is that enough to go through the mess of a fragmentation and partial merger with the most senior pilot group in the world?

Even if the terms on the 330's were good, are they really better than what we could get with an AAesque massive jet order like we're likely going to place one way or the other anyway? I could see if we needed the lift now, especially to EU, but we clearly are dumping as much as we can as fast as we can. So dumping our own capacity only to pick up theirs makes little sense other than as a crafty way to reduce total seat counts and drive up demand. But if we do that, UCAL, AA and a ton of subsidized foreign airlines will pick up the slack pretty quickly.

So what's in it for us?

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 09:18 AM
What is the best computer (netbook, tablet) to take on the road that easily accesses Deltanet, Icrew, travelnet, PBS etc..I want simplicity and a keyboard, also light weight. Mainly just for that purpose. I've noticed the tablets have some keyboards now that are sold separately. Just curious what others are using?


I have a HP mini and it works great. It has a nine hour battery, and has Windows 7 on it. I have no complaints with it.

I also have a Apple I-Pad 64G 3G. I use Mercury and can access I-Crew with no issues.

The HP goes for about 350 and the I-pad was 812 with our discount.

JABDIP
07-27-2011, 09:39 AM
What would be the gain in that? USAir's Europe presence is paultry compared to ours and most of our competitors. Maybe the terms on the planes are favorable? But is that enough to go through the mess of a fragmentation and partial merger with the most senior pilot group in the world?

Even if the terms on the 330's were good, are they really better than what we could get with an AAesque massive jet order like we're likely going to place one way or the other anyway? I could see if we needed the lift now, especially to EU, but we clearly are dumping as much as we can as fast as we can. So dumping our own capacity only to pick up theirs makes little sense other than as a crafty way to reduce total seat counts and drive up demand. But if we do that, UCAL, AA and a ton of subsidized foreign airlines will pick up the slack pretty quickly.

So what's in it for us?I heard the equipment and routes only no pilots! So what would be in that for us DAL pilots?:confused:

tsquare
07-27-2011, 09:40 AM
What is the best computer (netbook, tablet) to take on the road that easily accesses Deltanet, Icrew, travelnet, PBS etc..I want simplicity and a keyboard, also light weight. Mainly just for that purpose. I've noticed the tablets have some keyboards now that are sold separately. Just curious what others are using?

Now that I have no Jepps to carry in my flight kit, I carry my desktop. :cool:

hoserpilot
07-27-2011, 09:46 AM
Alpa has no problem setting up meetings in an airport. When I was at Skywest they did it all the time. Alpa rented a room near the Skywest pilot lounge in Salt Lake City. Every day there was food, drinks and plenty of union talk. Why can't we rent a room in ATL, DTW, MSP and have the meetings there? Heck, why not rent a room in MCO for all those Floridians???? We could call it a satellite meeting and have reps from multiple MEC's there.

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 09:50 AM
Alpa has no problem setting up meetings in an airport. When I was at Skywest they did it all the time. Alpa rented a room near the Skywest pilot lounge in Salt Lake City. Every day there was food, drinks and plenty of union talk. Why can't we rent a room in ATL, DTW, MSP and have the meetings there? Heck, why not rent a room in MCO for all those Floridians???? We could call it a satellite meeting and have reps from multiple MEC's there.


I have suggested just that. I want to have the ATL meeting in one of the conference rooms at the ATL airport. Either the conference rooms on the second floor of the atrium, or another room that meets our needs.

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 09:52 AM
I heard the equipment and routes only no pilots! So what would be in that for us DAL pilots?:confused:

If you want to carry the rumor out:

Isn't it for their future 330 delivers and we in turn trade them for the 1500 series 7ER's..

FlyingViking
07-27-2011, 09:57 AM
What is the best computer (netbook, tablet) to take on the road that easily accesses Deltanet, Icrew, travelnet, PBS etc..I want simplicity and a keyboard, also light weight. Mainly just for that purpose. I've noticed the tablets have some keyboards now that are sold separately. Just curious what others are using?

I just bought a HP on sale at Bestbuy for my GF. Superlight, loaded with features, Win7, and $350,-..... Can't go wrong with that....

Rudder
07-27-2011, 09:59 AM
MacBook Air and love it, less than a pound heavier than the Ipad, great battery life and no moving parts. do not know what operating system you are used to but it gets on all the Delta stuff that I need no sweat. Bought a refurb model off the Apple site so saved a little on the price. Good luck with your search.

gloopy
07-27-2011, 10:08 AM
I heard the equipment and routes only no pilots! So what would be in that for us DAL pilots?:confused:

I can't imagine we want the "routes" literally. CLT or PHL to EU with no feed? If its just the EU destination capacity on the other end, we are pulling our own down agressively. Maybe its to "trade" 330's for our 7ER's but wouldn't that increase capacity for us (even if kept neutral over the pond in total)?

Does the 330 do as good a job cost wise on EU routes that 7ER's can easily do as well?

I'm not saying a version of this rumor won't happen. I just don't see why it would happen. Unless, as it kind of appears, USAir is burning furniture to heat the house and we figure its going to be us that benefits rather than someone else.

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 10:21 AM
I can't imagine we want the "routes" literally. CLT or PHL to EU with no feed? If its just the EU destination capacity on the other end, we are pulling our own down agressively. Maybe its to "trade" 330's for our 7ER's but wouldn't that increase capacity for us (even if kept neutral over the pond in total)?

Does the 330 do as good a job cost wise on EU routes that 7ER's can easily do as well?

I'm not saying a version of this rumor won't happen. I just don't see why it would happen. Unless, as it kind of appears, USAir is burning furniture to heat the house and we figure its going to be us that benefits rather than someone else.

It is Route Authorities. Many of them are not city pair specific. For example we moved one of our Brazil authorities from ATL to DTW.

Scoop
07-27-2011, 10:26 AM
It is Route Authorities. Many of them are not city pair specific. For example we moved one of our Brazil authorities from ATL to DTW.

Exactly! DAL is running out of routes to pull out of, and this would be a terrible crisis. Think what would happen if we could not respond to the puppet masters with the standard - "Yeah we know we missed analysts expectations, but we are reducing capacity XX % next (month/quarter/year/decade) etc.

Scoop :)

hockeypilot44
07-27-2011, 10:42 AM
On a brighter note, Jetblue is growing like crazy.

Columbia
07-27-2011, 10:57 AM
On a brighter note, Jetblue is growing like crazy.

As is swa and Alaska (Hawaiian too).

Jesse
07-27-2011, 11:02 AM
One thing that wasn't in the MD-90 training CD: look out for the ALT ARM light mysteriously disappearing at the most inopportune moments. Saw the FO taking it out to warn him and he said they were notorious for that. Really?:eek:

gloopy
07-27-2011, 11:11 AM
As is swa and Alaska (Hawaiian too).

And VA. All the above with hundreds of growth narrowbodies on firm order, optioned and in letters of intent. There is nowhere for those planes to go unless the equivalent comes out of existing flying. Its time to compete and win instead of shrink to profitability which never works.

sailingfun
07-27-2011, 11:14 AM
Alpa has no problem setting up meetings in an airport. When I was at Skywest they did it all the time. Alpa rented a room near the Skywest pilot lounge in Salt Lake City. Every day there was food, drinks and plenty of union talk. Why can't we rent a room in ATL, DTW, MSP and have the meetings there? Heck, why not rent a room in MCO for all those Floridians???? We could call it a satellite meeting and have reps from multiple MEC's there.

How do you get everyone through security for the meetings. Wives could not go at all and all pilots would have to be in uniform. No thanks.

johnso29
07-27-2011, 11:14 AM
On a brighter note, Jetblue is growing like crazy.

Well, you have A320 experience so what's stopping you from going there? ;)

sailingfun
07-27-2011, 11:18 AM
My bet US air 330 operation to Europe!:eek::D


Its mostly open skies to Europe. Why would we pay USAIR for flying we can have for free. USAIR has virtually no access at any slot controlled airports. If we want more 330's Airbus will have them sitting in Atlanta in in 90 days.

firstmob
07-27-2011, 11:33 AM
If you want to carry the rumor out:

Isn't it for their future 330 delivers and we in turn trade them for the 1500 series 7ER's..

So this is the old 767 for 330 rumor doing a Lazarus?

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 11:35 AM
How do you get everyone through security for the meetings. Wives could not go at all and all pilots would have to be in uniform. No thanks.

What is funny is, I have not seen a wife at a meeting since the JPWA. They only seem to show up when there is major money on the table.

That said, the conference rooms outside of security in ATL would work just fine.

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 11:36 AM
So this is the old 767 for 330 rumor doing a Lazarus?

Same one. :D I figured that if they were going to bring up part of the rumor, they should show all of the rumor. :rolleyes:

Mem9guy
07-27-2011, 11:50 AM
How do you get everyone through security for the meetings. Wives could not go at all and all pilots would have to be in uniform. No thanks.

You don't have to be in uniform to go through security...

Elvis90
07-27-2011, 11:55 AM
Delta making $4 million a day on expired-tax fare hike

By Ben Mutzabaugh, USA TODAY

Delta Air Lines says its decision to offset expired FAA taxes by raising fares has increased revenue by between $4 million and $5 million per day, The Wall Street Journal reports. The newspaper adds: "Delta said it has no plans to change its ticket prices."

"The tax is a tax on passengers," Glen Hauenstein, Delta's Executive Vice President for Network Planning, Revenue Management and Marketing, is quoted as saying by the Journal. "What the industry has done is simply to maintain prices at market-clearing levels."

That revelation came out today during a call to discuss Delta's second-quarter earnings results. The Associated Press reports the carrier's "second-quarter net income fell by 58% compared to a year ago. It earned $198 million, or 23 cents per share, compared with $467 million, or 55 cents a year ago. Fuel costs rose 36% to $2.66 billion in the latest quarter. Revenue rose 12% to $9.15 billion as Delta raised fares to try to pay the increased fuel costs."

Delta's results fell short of Wall Street expectations once special items were excluded.

DeadHead
07-27-2011, 11:57 AM
Some what off topic, but can an out-of-base white slip pull a RES pilot off of a trip once that trip has been assigned to said RES pilot? (Day prior)

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 12:12 PM
Some what off topic, but can an out-of-base white slip pull a RES pilot off of a trip once that trip has been assigned to said RES pilot? (Day prior)

If it is over 12 hrs to report the RUO is followed and a RES is used prior to a Out-of-base WS. OB WS's can only be assigned before reserves within 12 hrs to report.

O. Open Time Award/Assignment Sequence for Rotations Reporting Less Than 12 Hours After
Initial Attempt to Contact Pilot (Short Notice Ladder)
1. Pilots subject to recovery flying under Section 23 K. 1.
2. Regular pilots who have submitted white slips (by proffer, in category, in seniority order)
Exception: A local council officer who drops a rotation to conduct a monthly council
meeting will be given first priority to white slip open time during that bid period in order
to recover such dropped rotations. (see Section 24 J. 8.)
3. Long call reserve pilots who have submitted yellow slips (provided FAR reserve rest
requirements have been met, in category, within RUO)
4. Out-of-base regular pilots who have submitted white slips (by proffer, in seniority order)
5. Short call reserve pilots (in category, within RUO)
6. Out-of-base long call reserve pilots who have submitted yellow slips (provided FAR
reserve rest requirements have been met, by base, within RUO)
7. Out-of-base short call reserve pilots (by base, within RUO)
8. Short call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would extend into their regular line
day(s)-off (in category, within least intrusion groupings, by RAW value)
9. Out-of base short call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would extend into their
regular line day(s)-off (in category, within least disruption groupings, by RAW value)
10. Short call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would create a conflict with their
regular line rotation(s) (in category, within least disruption groupings, by RAW value)
11. Out-of base short call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would create a conflict
with their regular line rotation(s) (in category, within least disruption groupings, by RAW
value)
12. Pilots (including long call reserve pilots whose rotation would report within 12 hours of
initial attempt to contact) who have submitted GSs (in category, in seniority order)
13. Instructors who have submitted GSs under Section 11 C. 1. c. 2) (in seniority order)
Note: Instructors who can hold First Officer, but cannot hold Captain, on the aircraft
model on which they instruct, will be afforded priority over instructors who can hold
Captain on such aircraft model, for the purpose of GS awards for flying as First Officer.
14. Out-of-base pilots who have submitted GSs (in seniority order)
15. Pilots who are currently flying and would be re-routed
16. Long call reserve pilots whose rotation would report within 12 hours of initial attempt to
contact (by proffer, in category, in inverse seniority order)
17. Short call reserve pilots whose X-day(s) would be interrupted (in category, in inverse
seniority order)
18. Long call reserve pilots whose rotation would report within 12 hours of initial attempt to
contact and whose X-day(s) would be interrupted (by proffer, in category, in inverse
seniority order)
19. Reserve pilots on X-day(s) who can be assigned without conflict (in category, in inverse
seniority order)
20. Regular pilots who can be assigned without conflict (in category, in inverse seniority
order)
21. Reserve pilots on X-day(s) who can be assigned with conflict (in category, in inverse
seniority order)
22. Regular pilots who have submitted GSWCs (in category, in seniority order)
23. Out-of-base pilots who have submitted GSWCs (in seniority order)
24. Regular pilots who can be assigned with conflict (in category, in inverse seniority order)
25. International category pilots (domestic category open time converted to international
category open time):
a. pilots who have submitted GSs (in base, in position, in seniority order)
b. out-of-base pilots who have submitted GSs (in position, in seniority order)
c. short call reserve pilots (in category, within RUO)
26. Available qualified pilots (in position, in inverse seniority order)
Note: Crew Scheduling may at its discretion bypass a short call pilot for assignment to flying
if the assignment would cause him to be released within two hours of a required rest period.

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 12:14 PM
N. Open Time Award/Assignment Sequence for Rotations Reporting 12 or More Hours After
Initial Attempt to Contact Pilot (Long Notice Ladder)
1. Pilots subject to recovery flying under Section 23 K. 1.
2. Regular pilots who have submitted white slips (in category, in seniority order)
Note: White slips for same-day open time will be awarded by proffer.
Exception: A local council officer who drops a rotation to conduct a monthly council
meeting will be given first priority to white slip open time during that bid period in order
to recover such dropped rotations. (see Section 24 J. 8.)
3. Pilots subject to recovery flying under Section 23 G. 5. a. 1) Note, (OE recovery)
4. Long call reserve pilots (in category, within RUO)
5. Short call reserve pilots (in category, within RUO)
6. Reserve pilots who are on an X-day or long call reserve pilots for whom the award would
interrupt their X-day(s) and who have submitted a yellow slip (in category, within RUO)
7. Out-of-base regular pilots who have submitted white slips (in seniority order)
Note: White slips for same-day open time will be awarded by proffer.
8. Out-of-base long call reserve pilots (by base, within RUO)
9. Out-of-base short call reserve pilots (by base, within RUO)
10. Long call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would extend into their regular line
day(s)-off (in category, within least intrusion groupings, by RAW value)
11. Short call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would extend into their regular line
day(s)-off (in category, within least intrusion groupings, by RAW value)
12. Out-of-base long call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would extend into their
regular line day(s)-off (by base, within least intrusion groupings, by RAW value)
13. Out-of-base short call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would extend into their
regular line day(s)-off (by base, within least intrusion groupings, by RAW value)
14. Long call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would create a conflict with their
regular line rotation(s) (in category, within least disruption groupings, by RAW value)
15. Short call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would create a conflict with their
regular line rotation(s) (in category, within least disruption groupings, by RAW value)
16. Out-of-base long call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would create a conflict with
their regular line rotation(s) (within least disruption groupings, by RAW value)
17. Out-of-base short call reserve pilots for whom the assignment would create a conflict
with their regular line rotation(s) (within least disruption groupings, by RAW value)
18. Pilots who have submitted GSs (in category, in seniority order)
19. Instructors who have submitted GSs without conflict under Section 11 C. 1. c. 2) (in
seniority order)
Note: Instructors who can hold First Officer, but cannot hold Captain, on the aircraft
model on which they instruct, will be afforded priority over instructors who can hold
Captain on such aircraft model, for the purpose of GS awards for flying as First Officer.
20. Out-of-base pilots who have submitted GSs (in seniority order)
21. Pilots who are currently flying and would be re-routed.
22. Long call reserve pilots whose X-day(s) would be interrupted (in category, in inverse
seniority order)
23. Short call reserve pilots whose X-day(s) would be interrupted (in category, in inverse
seniority order)
24. Reserve pilots on X-day(s) who can be assigned without conflict (in category, in inverse
seniority order)
25. Regular pilots who can be assigned without conflict (in category, in inverse seniority
order)
26. Reserve pilots on X-day(s) who can be assigned with conflict (in category, in inverse
seniority order)
27. Regular pilots who have submitted GSWCs (in category, in seniority order)
28. Regular pilots who can be assigned with conflict (in category, in inverse seniority order)
29. International category pilots (domestic category open time that is converted to
international category open time)
a. pilots who have submitted GSs (in category, in seniority order)
b. out-of-base pilots who have submitted GSs (in position, in seniority order)
c. long call reserve pilots (in category, within RUO)
d. short call reserve pilots (in category, within RUO)
e. out-of-base long call reserve pilots (in position, within RUO)
f. out-of-base short call reserve pilots (in position, within RUO)
30. Available qualified pilots (in position, in inverse seniority order)

DAWGS
07-27-2011, 12:21 PM
Thanks for the input on the netbook vs. tablet. Think I will just get a netbook for now. Sounds like the best option for the money.

Will
07-27-2011, 12:29 PM
I have been using my netbook for 2 years and agree that it's the best bang for the buck. I would suggest you upgrade the RAM from 1 to 2. It's about a 30 dollar upgrade if you buy it and install it yourself and it makes a big difference in operating speed.

DeadHead
07-27-2011, 12:39 PM
Thanks ACL,

My question on a more specific level was, once a trip had been assigned to a long call pilot on the day prior (more than 12 hours), can an out-of-base white slip legally come and decide to take the trip from a RES pilot after it has been assigned later in the day (but still 12 hours from report)

Scheduler tried to pull a trip after they assigned it to me, and I queried the scheduler about it and I got the trip back. I was just curious because it seemed unusual. I realize a white slip has first dibs on a trip, but I didn't think a trip could be pulled like that after it has been assigned.

DeadHead
07-27-2011, 12:39 PM
Thanks for the input on the netbook vs. tablet. Think I will just get a netbook for now. Sounds like the best option for the money.

PM Dawgs....

acl65pilot
07-27-2011, 12:42 PM
Thanks ACL,

My question on a more specific level was, once a trip had been assigned to a long call pilot on the day prior (more than 12 hours), can an out-of-base white slip legally come and decide to take the trip from a RES pilot after it has been assigned later in the day (but still 12 hours from report)

Scheduler tried to pull a trip after they assigned it to me, and I queried the scheduler about it and I got the trip back. I was just curious because it seemed unusual. I realize a white slip has first dibs on a trip, but I didn't think a trip could be pulled like that after it has been assigned.

No, but they can try. Now what they could do it put you on SC and then reassign the trip. If you were the only reserve legal for the trip, then, they could follow the RUO. That may have allowed the OB the trip. Since they did not do that, the answer is NO.

What you should do is Acknowledge a trip once you see it, that way they are less likely to take it from you.

johnso29
07-27-2011, 12:43 PM
Thanks for the input on the netbook vs. tablet. Think I will just get a netbook for now. Sounds like the best option for the money.

Wanted to chime in. I have a ASUS eee pc netbook. Cost $350 over a year ago. Small, light, big internal memory, & a good wireless card. Built in web cam, & came with Windows 7 starter(I'm not a fan, but it gets the job done)

I think a netbook is the best way to go.

sevenfiveseven
07-27-2011, 12:48 PM
One thing that wasn't in the MD-90 training CD: look out for the ALT ARM light mysteriously disappearing at the most inopportune moments. Saw the FO taking it out to warn him and he said they were notorious for that. Really?:eek:

Unlike the 88, the 90 will capture without the ALT lite being armed.

DAL73n
07-27-2011, 01:11 PM
Wanted to chime in. I have a ASUS eee pc netbook. Cost $350 over a year ago. Small, light, big internal memory, & a good wireless card. Built in web cam, & came with Windows 7 starter(I'm not a fan, but it gets the job done)

I think a netbook is the best way to go.

I carry a full size (14") laptop - weighs in about 6 lbs with case and AC adapter. Seriously thinking about downscaling to one of the netbooks. Would love to get by with just a tablet (IPad/Android) but don't think those are quite there yet for everything I need/want to get down on the road (e.g. bidding with Easy Bid). Also like to carry a nice mix of movies/music and they fit quite easily on a netbook or a laptop. Macbook Airs are nice BUT like any Apple Product (even refurb) very expensive.

PilotFrog
07-27-2011, 01:16 PM
If anyone is thinking of a tablet that isn't apple, Staples has a great in store coupon right now. $100 off brings the ASUS transformer down to $299 and the new Samsung Tab 10.1 16GB to $399
Only trick I ran into was finding a store with the tablets in stock. GL

Staples.com® | Staples® Coupons (http://reg.e.staples.com/c/s/tagfrm/hBOJnz1B7SHGCB8ca0OG-ENq2v2/coupon.html?n=927)

The Asus and Samdsung also have keyboards available as an accessory. The Asus makes it almost into a netbook but it still isn't as capable, and I personally do not have an android device either phone or tablet and not sure how easy it is to get onto Dalnet, iCrew or Travelnet.

JABDIP
07-27-2011, 01:17 PM
It is Route Authorities. Many of them are not city pair specific. For example we moved one of our Brazil authorities from ATL to DTW.
Bingo! They like the TLV authority alot.

sailingfun
07-27-2011, 01:26 PM
Thanks ACL,

My question on a more specific level was, once a trip had been assigned to a long call pilot on the day prior (more than 12 hours), can an out-of-base white slip legally come and decide to take the trip from a RES pilot after it has been assigned later in the day (but still 12 hours from report)

Scheduler tried to pull a trip after they assigned it to me, and I queried the scheduler about it and I got the trip back. I was just curious because it seemed unusual. I realize a white slip has first dibs on a trip, but I didn't think a trip could be pulled like that after it has been assigned.

Scheduling has the right under the contract to correct mistakes. If a scheduler assigns a trip and it is not per the contract they can correct that mistake at no penalty to the company. What they can't do however is what I suspect happened in your case. They are short on pilots. They cover your trip with you as a reserve. Another pilots sees the trip in the daily coverage and calls scheds and says since you are short I will take the trip on a out of bases WS. They move the trip to get you back into their hip pocket on reserve. The fact the scheduler agreed to keep you on the trip tells me this is the case. If it was a mistake he could have simply told you to bad. There was more to the story.

DeadHead
07-27-2011, 02:12 PM
Scheduling has the right under the contract to correct mistakes. If a scheduler assigns a trip and it is not per the contract they can correct that mistake at no penalty to the company. What they can't do however is what I suspect happened in your case. They are short on pilots. They cover your trip with you as a reserve. Another pilots sees the trip in the daily coverage and calls scheds and says since you are short I will take the trip on a out of bases WS. They move the trip to get you back into their hip pocket on reserve. The fact the scheduler agreed to keep you on the trip tells me this is the case. If it was a mistake he could have simply told you to bad. There was more to the story.

Seemed odd to me one way or another, RES is bad enough as it is, never mind a constant back and forth of being assigned a trip then have it taken away.

Grumble
07-27-2011, 02:19 PM
I carry a full size (14") laptop - weighs in about 6 lbs with case and AC adapter. Seriously thinking about downscaling to one of the netbooks. Would love to get by with just a tablet (IPad/Android) but don't think those are quite there yet for everything I need/want to get down on the road (e.g. bidding with Easy Bid). Also like to carry a nice mix of movies/music and they fit quite easily on a netbook or a laptop. Macbook Airs are nice BUT like any Apple Product (even refurb) very expensive.

Go with the new Air. You can get the small one for just over a grand, you'll never look back, and after a few days with it you'll be glad you spent the money. Trust me.

tsquare
07-27-2011, 02:28 PM
Alpa has no problem setting up meetings in an airport. When I was at Skywest they did it all the time. Alpa rented a room near the Skywest pilot lounge in Salt Lake City. Every day there was food, drinks and plenty of union talk. Why can't we rent a room in ATL, DTW, MSP and have the meetings there? Heck, why not rent a room in MCO for all those Floridians???? We could call it a satellite meeting and have reps from multiple MEC's there.


Or better yet, create a LEC that is MCO based... for example.

firstmob
07-27-2011, 02:50 PM
ACL. Check your pm,s

scambo1
07-27-2011, 03:11 PM
Some what off topic, but can an out-of-base white slip pull a RES pilot off of a trip once that trip has been assigned to said RES pilot? (Day prior)


Call the res pilot and call the scheduler. I've seen it done before.

Look at you pick up limit before you waste your time though, you might have to park a trip to be eligible:eek:

johnso29
07-27-2011, 03:12 PM
I carry a full size (14") laptop - weighs in about 6 lbs with case and AC adapter. Seriously thinking about downscaling to one of the netbooks. Would love to get by with just a tablet (IPad/Android) but don't think those are quite there yet for everything I need/want to get down on the road (e.g. bidding with Easy Bid). Also like to carry a nice mix of movies/music and they fit quite easily on a netbook or a laptop. Macbook Airs are nice BUT like any Apple Product (even refurb) very expensive.

I'm very happy with my notebook. I do alternate between it an my iPad depending on the trip.

Tinpusher007
07-27-2011, 03:14 PM
"New 763ER" mod complete...
My Slideflickr (http://my.slideflickr.com/Jdi5zGnC)

DeadHead
07-27-2011, 03:17 PM
Call the res pilot and call the scheduler. I've seen it done before.

Look at you pick up limit before you waste your time though, you might have to park a trip to be eligible:eek:

Unfortunately I was the RES pilot in this case, and I didn't receive a call from a line pilot. Just thought it was weird since I had the trip already.

Carl Spackler
07-27-2011, 03:28 PM
...I can only say that DPA has become whatever you want it to become. That in itself is dangerous.

Another shameful slur from the ALPA lemmings. Since similar comments have come from slow, alfa and the other usual suspects, it must be the latest claim right off the ALPA smear fax machine. It only shows you have not read a single thing from either the DPA website or their literature.

DPA is whatever you want it to be? I can tell you that if you are hoping to give away more Scope, DPA will not EVER be what you want it to be. But ALPA will be perfect for you. If you are hoping to keep expectations low, DPA will not EVER be what you want it to be. But ALPA will be perfect for you. If you are hoping for legal representation who loves contructive engagement and not defending Scope clauses, DPA will not EVER be what you want it to be. But ALPA is just perfect for you.

I could go on.

Carl

Jesse
07-27-2011, 03:56 PM
Unlike the 88, the 90 will capture without the ALT lite being armed.

Even if you're not in VNAV?

Columbia
07-27-2011, 04:06 PM
Even if you're not in VNAV?

What's Vnav?

DeadHead
07-27-2011, 04:43 PM
What's Vnav?

Violation Navigation Mode on the M88

sinca3
07-27-2011, 04:59 PM
"New 763ER" mod complete...
My Slideflickr (http://my.slideflickr.com/Jdi5zGnC)
Pretty snazzy!!

Jughead
07-27-2011, 05:02 PM
Even if you're not in VNAV?

I'm pretty sure the 88 and the 90 will capture the altitude in VNav even if the ALT is not armed. I don't attempt to do this on a regular basis, nor would I recommend it to my buddies.

I don't think either will capture altitude in VS or IAS mode if the ALT isn't armed, but I haven't played around on the 90 enough to act like I'm an expert.

I do watch the FMA like an expert when approaching an altitude, no matter what I'm flying. :)

Bucking Bar
07-27-2011, 05:06 PM
Well, you have A320 experience so what's stopping you from going there? ;)If Delta is going to be the ever shrinking airline post - merger, then it is a valid consideration.

If we won't build a model where we do our flying, then it is just a waiting game with a pretty certain conclusion. No airline in history has ever shrunk its way to profitability and we're unlike to be the first. That is what the market is smelling and the aroma is not putting them in a buying mood.

Bucking Bar
07-27-2011, 05:09 PM
Hard to believe we STILL have $13.8 BILLION in debt. How does this happen within 5 years of exiting BK?Our losses were financed at 12 to 18%. While we have been paying off the most onerous debt relating to Goldman Sachs energy trading speculation, it left a long lasting mark.

We need to figure out some way to owe all that money to Goldman, then we'd be in the same boat as AIG.

johnso29
07-27-2011, 05:11 PM
In the 2008 speculative fuel price run up we were financing our fuel at 12 to 18 percent interest. Don't you just love Goldman Sachs?

My head hurts. :mad:

Bucking Bar
07-27-2011, 05:20 PM
I'm pretty sure the 88 and the 90 will capture the altitude in VNav even if the ALT is not armed. I don't attempt to do this on a regular basis, nor would I recommend it to my buddies.

I don't think either will capture altitude in VS or IAS mode if the ALT isn't armed, but I haven't played around on the 90 enough to act like I'm an expert.

I do watch the FMA like an expert when approaching an altitude, no matter what I'm flying. :)It will capture whatever altitude is in the Cruise page, but only in VNAV, if you have it in FTB mode, see:

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/ForgottoBid/temp-46.jpg

Here it has four options left, which is better than being out of options. It sucks to be out of options in an MD88.

iaflyer
07-27-2011, 06:09 PM
"New 763ER" mod complete...
My Slideflickr (http://my.slideflickr.com/Jdi5zGnC)Pretty nice - I forgot they were putting in new seats in the back. And the rest area looks decent too.

buzzpat
07-27-2011, 06:14 PM
PIREP:

Scoop and buzzpat held a mini-APC reunion in a jetway at SAN. It was spectacular. Carry on.

iaflyer
07-27-2011, 06:29 PM
PIREP:

Scoop and buzzpat held a mini-APC reunion in a jetway at SAN. It was spectacular. Carry on.We should make a "APC Surfers Only" seat at the long tables in Atlanta.

forgot to bid
07-27-2011, 06:38 PM
Unlike the 88, the 90 will capture without the ALT lite being armed.

It will ALT CAP on the 88. Especially doing VNAV to the marker and not hitting DIS DIR or deleting the altitudes on the approach.

It will capture whatever altitude is in the Cruise page, but only in VNAV, if you have it in FTB mode, see:

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/ForgottoBid/temp-46.jpg

Here it has four options left, which is better than being out of options. It sucks to be out of options in an MD88.

FTB Config is not recommend if single. It won't get you anywhere. :D

DAL4EVER
07-27-2011, 06:38 PM
Unlike the 88, the 90 will capture without the ALT lite being armed.

Unless its one of the Chinese birds. Had the ALT arm light capture on multiple occasions but the aircraft would fly through the altitude. That was a couple of months ago and it was my first flight on the 90 and the Capt's second. We didn't know if we weren't doing something right. Now after three months on the 90, I know it was just FUBAR'd that day.

PilotFrog
07-27-2011, 06:51 PM
The new ER interior looks nice, but man that front galley looks huge now. Be nice to non rev on it, and seems to be similar to the 787 interior.

scambo1
07-27-2011, 06:55 PM
The new ER interior looks nice, but man that front galley looks huge now. Be nice to non rev on it, and seems to be similar to the 787 interior.


No nonrevving for us. Capacity will be reduced until the only revenue is the $50 we pay to nonrev.

forgot to bid
07-27-2011, 07:03 PM
So does it really only take the DPA 35% to force a vote if the contract passes the amendable date?

Heard that, haven't read it, but ill throw it out.

RunFast
07-27-2011, 07:09 PM
I don't know. We've got four things that might influence hiring sooner than later.

1. LGA slot swap
2. Aircraft orders (though this will be down the line)
3. New FAA crew rest guidelines
4. Age 65 guys

The early outs could be absorbed by the capacity pull down but at some point we're going to need to get ahead-of-the-ball for some of these other reasons. If Delta waits until the 65ers are forced out training would be full for quite sometime just with new hires. Seems like they'd have to start hiring early and have the guys on the payroll so when the big numbers start falling we're not starting from scratch.

Am I missing something?

ranger

Yea, MGT's plans for loosening of scope...

buzzpat
07-27-2011, 07:15 PM
Yea, MGT's plans for loosening of scope...

That AIN'T gonna happen. From all of the guys I fly with, that's a non-starter.

cni187
07-27-2011, 07:45 PM
If Delta is going to be the ever shrinking airline post - merger, then it is a valid consideration.

If we won't build a model where we do our flying, then it is just a waiting game with a pretty certain conclusion. No airline in history has ever shrunk its way to profitability and we're unlike to be the first. That is what the market is smelling and the aroma is not putting them in a buying mood.

Does this mean as a new guy I should start looking elsewhere before I get any seniority here? Two guys from my new hire class jumped ship to Southwest already. Atlas is still looking for ex-heavy mil guys. (Sarcasm included)

scambo1
07-27-2011, 08:08 PM
Does this mean as a new guy I should start looking elsewhere before I get any seniority here? Two guys from my new hire class jumped ship to Southwest already. Atlas is still looking for ex-heavy mil guys. (Sarcasm included)

Bar is still here.

It cant hurt you to try to cast your net and broaden your options.

Demographically speaking, if you are young stay, if you are old...?

LOBO
07-27-2011, 08:15 PM
Definition of young equals what = ?

JABDIP
07-27-2011, 09:35 PM
Stock volume pretty high today. Anyone know if it was biased towards accumulation. 3.5 million shares traded at 2:30 in a huge block. One really wonders????:confused:

Boomer
07-27-2011, 09:39 PM
"Special items of $168 million included $80 million in severance and related costs, and $64 million for facilities consolidation and fleet reduction."

How much of that 64 million was spent shrinking Comair?

Eventually our fleet will be zero and then we can start making money for Delta again.

forgot to bid
07-27-2011, 10:42 PM
Definition of young equals what = ?

Where this isn't illegal?

http://www.mmoabc.com/sites/default/files/old-blogs/my/b/o/r/tha/2008/4/11//1207953796200.jpg

forgot to bid
07-27-2011, 10:59 PM
PIREP:

Scoop and buzzpat held a mini-APC reunion in a jetway at SAN. It was spectacular. Carry on.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1426/1321509586_daeba4255e.jpg

forgot to bid
07-27-2011, 11:09 PM
Unless its one of the Chinese birds. Had the ALT arm light capture on multiple occasions but the aircraft would fly through the altitude. That was a couple of months ago and it was my first flight on the 90 and the Capt's second. We didn't know if we weren't doing something right. Now after three months on the 90, I know it was just FUBAR'd that day.

Had my first ALT ARM and VNAV CAP fail last week. About 200' from level off at 7000' it went VNAV CAP but then pitched over from 300 fpm to 2000 fpm and blew right threw 7000 and ALT ARM never went away. We stopped her at 6800.

The only thing I'd say is it was in pretty rough turbulence. I don't know if that played a factor but I, the handsome, dutiful and bored PNF just watched it and said "I don't think it's going to capture" and sure enough it really wasn't. Sometimes it over shoots by 100' but it seemed destined for another altitude of unknown heights.

I'd never seen it do it before though.

forgot to bid
07-27-2011, 11:19 PM
"New 763ER" mod complete...
My Slideflickr (http://my.slideflickr.com/Jdi5zGnC)

Where does thou hole go to and how do I keep from falling down it? If I bid 7ER. Which I'm not.

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/ForgottoBid/Temp1-13.jpg?t=1311837461

Because see that phone? Yeah, if that damn thing rang I could see myself getting up, walking over to it, picking it up and then slamming it back down. Then picking it up and letting it fall to the floor dangling by its cord. A sign to all phones on what will happen to them if they keep ringing.

acl65pilot
07-28-2011, 03:19 AM
Stock volume pretty high today. Anyone know if it was biased towards accumulation. 3.5 million shares traded at 2:30 in a huge block. One really wonders????:confused:

Did not look at the volume, but I believe that Wall Street is losing its nerve wrt to DAL. We blasted though our 52 week lows a few weeks ago, got the added capacity cuts that I feared, and now the investors are at the point where DAL is not making the money they want, and CASM will start going up due to less ASM's.

I suspect that there is pressure on the leadership team to do something besides to stay the course.

tsquare
07-28-2011, 03:43 AM
Where this isn't illegal?

http://www.mmoabc.com/sites/default/files/old-blogs/my/b/o/r/tha/2008/4/11//1207953796200.jpg


Utah??????

Doug Masters
07-28-2011, 04:42 AM
Definition of young equals what = ?


Have you broken a hip yet? Then you're not old:)

johnso29
07-28-2011, 05:07 AM
Bar is still here.

It cant hurt you to try to cast your net and broaden your options.

Demographically speaking, if you are young stay, if you are old...?

Definition of young equals what = ?

25 yrs or younger. :p :D

N9373M
07-28-2011, 05:17 AM
http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/ForgottoBid/Temp1-13.jpg?t=1311837461



Looks like the entry hatch is sized to only allow "properly proportioned" FA's below ;)

DeadHead
07-28-2011, 05:24 AM
http://www.ajc.com/business/airlines...d-1052334.html (http://www.ajc.com/business/airlines-spoil-fliers-unplanned-1052334.html)

Does anyone think recapturing some of these taxes and fees might hurt us in the long run? I'm torn really, I think we needed to do it to avoid our competition from getting a $4-5 million dollar a day revenue advantage from us, but I can see the government trying to rake us over the coals when they eventually sign an FAA budget bill.


Found this statement somewhat perplexing;

"For Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines (http://g.ajc.com/r/GG/), that amounts to $4 million to $5 million a day in extra revenue, the company said Wednesday."


So if my public school math education serves me any purpose here,


Delta pays approximately $1.642 Billion on a annual basis as their share of tax and fees contributions off of passenger/customers.
($4.5 million X 365 days= $1.642 billion/year)


Trying to research what the FAA's overall budget is on a year to year basis. Seems like we are paying ALOT of money to this agency every year, money that could have helped keep us out of bankruptcy court in the earlier part of this decade.

johnso29
07-28-2011, 05:37 AM
Hypocrisy at it's best. The govt is just ticked someone else's hand is in the cookie jar & they can't do squat about it. Maybe they should focus on our country not defaulting on our loans, or getting the FAA taken care of. :rolleyes:


If those morons in Washington could do anything other then fight, they'd be collecting their precious taxes right now!! :mad:

DeadHead
07-28-2011, 05:41 AM
Hypocrisy at it's best. The govt is just ticked someone else's hand is in the cookie jar & they can't do squat about it. Maybe they should focus on our country not defaulting on our loans, or getting the FAA taken care of. :rolleyes:

Sure this is somewhat of a loaded statement, but personally I feel as the MOST successful/profitable companies in our country are the ones that have the least amount of taxes/fees imposed on them.

Check Essential
07-28-2011, 05:43 AM
Did not look at the volume, but I believe that Wall Street is losing its nerve wrt to DAL. We blasted though our 52 week lows a few weeks ago, got the added capacity cuts that I feared, and now the investors are at the point where DAL is not making the money they want, and CASM will start going up due to less ASM's.

I suspect that there is pressure on the leadership team to do something besides to stay the course.

This goes back to a topic we have touched on in the past. Its possible that major airlines are no longer intended to make money for their stockholders. They are public utilities. Delta is a cash cow for other interests and is never really going to be profitable for any length of time. The only people really making "profit" from delta range from bondholders and credit card companies to peanut vendors to hotels and tax collectors. The institutional stockholders of Delta are nothing but place holders and the average investors are sacrificial lambs.
Management gives lip service to making profits for stockholders but they know the system is rigged. They have their hand in the stream. They get their million dollar salaries.
That may be why SWA never used their enormous fuel hedge windfall of the last few years to generate huge profit. Instead they used it to cut fares and try to drive down profitability in the entire industry and maybe put some people out of business.
We need top keep this in mind during negotiations. It is a mistake to think Delta needs to be profitable to pay us what we deserve. We need to view our salaries as a fixed cost to the airline just like rent or maintenance.

johnso29
07-28-2011, 05:44 AM
Sure this is somewhat of a loaded statement, but personally I feel as the MOST successful/profitable companies in our country are the ones that have the least amount of taxes/fees imposed on them.

I don't disagree with that. Look at the oil companies. But my point is they need to be focused on ONE thing right now. The clock is ticking.

nwaf16dude
07-28-2011, 05:50 AM
Looks like the entry hatch is sized to only allow "properly proportioned" FA's below ;)

I've seen plenty of pilots that would have trouble getting in that hole. (sts)

1234
07-28-2011, 05:56 AM
Stock volume pretty high today. Anyone know if it was biased towards accumulation. 3.5 million shares traded at 2:30 in a huge block. One really wonders????:confused:

ACL must have gotten his on-line trading working.

DeadHead
07-28-2011, 06:08 AM
I don't disagree with that. Look at the oil companies. But my point is they need to be focused on ONE thing right now. The clock is ticking.

The fact it has gotten to this point already is a disgrace in ever sense of the word. If a budget is not signed by the deadline this will be the first economic crisis created entirely by the bureaucracy down in Washington.

As for the taxes and fees are industry sustains to the federal coffers, I would really like to see an exact annual budget for the FAA on an annual basis.

I mean we pay $1.642 Billion every from our ticket sales, and that seems really big numbers. I understand the agency cannot sustain itself to run and needs revenue coming in for various projects and needs, but collecting $1.642 Billion off the hard work of our employs seems exploitative to me.

acl65pilot
07-28-2011, 06:23 AM
ACL must have gotten his on-line trading working.

Yes,yes I did :D

acl65pilot
07-28-2011, 06:26 AM
Check, agreed! It is something to think about

BTW, anyone going to the MEC road show today in ATL?

Maddoggin
07-28-2011, 06:29 AM
"It continued: “We urge the nation’s airlines to put all of the profits that they are making from the lapse of the aviation taxes into an escrow account” so they can be transferred back into the government’s Airport and Airway Trust Fund when Congress reinstates the taxes, adding that “our nation’s aviation system cannot afford to have this tax revenue siphoned off by the industry.”

I think this is the real key. None of the airlines believe that the govt. is just going to let this money go. They are going to come after it once the FAA gets funding. Then it would just come out of the bottom line. I heard at the crew lounge visit yesterday that this is exactly what we are doing. We are putting the money in escrow so that when the govt. comes looking for it we will have it. Just a another way for the govt to shift the focus off of them. Why this isn't our official statement is beyond me. We sure are getting bad press of this.

acl65pilot
07-28-2011, 06:34 AM
Any other tidbits from the crew room chat? I was too busy cleaning the house to go......

rahc
07-28-2011, 06:55 AM
Does the RAW score on top of your schedule include rotations placed on your schedule that you have not flown yet?

johnso29
07-28-2011, 07:00 AM
Does the RAW score on top of your schedule include rotations placed on your schedule that you have not flown yet?

I'm 99% certain it doesn't. Your RAW won't increase until the trip starts.

sinca3
07-28-2011, 07:20 AM
This goes back to a topic we have touched on in the past. Its possible that major airlines are no longer intended to make money for their stockholders. They are public utilities. Delta is a cash cow for other interests and is never really going to be profitable for any length of time. The only people really making "profit" from delta range from bondholders and credit card companies to peanut vendors to hotels and tax collectors. The institutional stockholders of Delta are nothing but place holders and the average investors are sacrificial lambs.
Management gives lip service to making profits for stockholders but they know the system is rigged. They have their hand in the stream. They get their million dollar salaries.
That may be why SWA never used their enormous fuel hedge windfall of the last few years to generate huge profit. Instead they used it to cut fares and try to drive down profitability in the entire industry and maybe put some people out of business.
We need top keep this in mind during negotiations. It is a mistake to think Delta needs to be profitable to pay us what we deserve. We need to view our salaries as a fixed cost to the airline just like rent or maintenance.
Interesting and scary!!

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 07:27 AM
Does the RAW score on top of your schedule include rotations placed on your schedule that you have not flown yet?

No. The raw score will change the day of the trip even before you started it but not if they give you a trip for tomorrow.

For instance if you have a typical ATL M88 B raw score of 354 and have another 4 day tomorrow then it's still 354. Tomorrow it will jump to 401.

Yes. For anyone wondering, triple digit raw scores are common now on ATL M88 B but none of them break 70 hours. It is hell. I feel very sorry for Jesse. I think he was contemplating throwing himself down the stairwell at the crewroom to have a break. but I'm sure the company doctor would've fixed him up and put him back out on the line. It's very sad.

I wouldn't bid this if you don't really hate yourself with a passion.

:D

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 07:34 AM
25 yrs or younger. :p :D

Young? If you take 1/2 your age plus 8 and Miss 80ktsclamp is still ethically in your age range then you're young.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110223210360/harrypotter/images/3/3d/Emma-Watson.jpg

So she's 21. So 26 or younger is young. 27 and older is old.

Check Essential
07-28-2011, 07:36 AM
Just a little backfiring. Must be a bad piston.

IEolhFCPieQ

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 07:40 AM
Bad magneto.

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 07:41 AM
The fact it has gotten to this point already is a disgrace in ever sense of the word. If a budget is not signed by the deadline this will be the first economic crisis created entirely by the bureaucracy down in Washington.

As for the taxes and fees are industry sustains to the federal coffers, I would really like to see an exact annual budget for the FAA on an annual basis.

I mean we pay $1.642 Billion every from our ticket sales, and that seems really big numbers. I understand the agency cannot sustain itself to run and needs revenue coming in for various projects and needs, but collecting $1.642 Billion off the hard work of our employs seems exploitative to me.

One thing for sure, we need to get rid of baseline budgeting. A guaranteed budget increases yoy no matter what?

I think it could be managed a lot more wisely so that you don't have to fly around with your gear out at 3000' to burn fuel in December so that your fuel allowance for next year isn't cut. The system is broken if the incentives within the government is to waste money or fear losing your budget next year.

Not to mention a budget cut of 5% isn't a cut of 5% but a cut of growth by 5%. if you're growing 10% next year then a 5% budget cut is still a 5% increase yoy. Do that with the big budget and that's considered an inhumane draconian cut.

I think the D.C. problem could be fixed if congress' lucrative pensions were eradicated.

btw, let them fight it out in congress. not all fights are bad ones and this certainly is not a bad fight. as to the faa's budget, why do i have a sneaking suspicion nobody had to be furloughed?

Columbia
07-28-2011, 07:44 AM
Hypocrisy at it's best. The govt is just ticked someone else's hand is in the cookie jar & they can't do squat about it. Maybe they should focus on our country not defaulting on our loans, or getting the FAA taken care of. :rolleyes:


If those morons in Washington could do anything other then fight, they'd be collecting their precious taxes right now!! :mad:

Are we talking about alpa here? :)

Scoop
07-28-2011, 08:22 AM
Just a little backfiring. Must be a bad piston.

IEolhFCPieQ


Obviously, it needs a new Johnson Rod or the flux capacitor.

Scoop :)

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 08:23 AM
By the way, when they talk of trillions of dollars someone in the paper had a good example.

A billion seconds ago and Pete Rose was playing baseball and Jimmy Carter was President.

A trillion seconds ago and Woolly Mammoths roamed the earth in mass. It is 32,000 years ago.

It'd be another 30,000 years before the first basic pyramid even showed up in Egypt.

Supposedly the obligations the government has promised totals around 60 or possibly 100 trillion dollars with a debt of 14.5 trillion. This year along we're making 2.2 trillion in tax revenue and spending 3.6 trillion.

Not political. just showing what trillions is.

hoserpilot
07-28-2011, 08:28 AM
One thing for sure, we need to get rid of baseline budgeting. A guaranteed budget increases yoy no matter what?

I think it could be managed a lot more wisely so that you don't have to fly around with your gear out at 3000' to burn fuel in December so that your fuel allowance for next year isn't cut. The system is broken if the incentives within the government is to waste money or fear losing your budget next year.

Not to mention a budget cut of 5% isn't a cut of 5% but a cut of growth by 5%. if you're growing 10% next year then a 5% budget cut is still a 5% increase yoy. Do that with the big budget and that's considered an inhumane draconian cut.

I think the D.C. problem could be fixed if congress' lucrative pensions were eradicated.

btw, let them fight it out in congress. not all fights are bad ones and this certainly is not a bad fight. as to the faa's budget, why do i have a sneaking suspicion nobody had to be furloughed?


My college buddy is a fed in Seattle. He is furloughed. He and the rest of the furloughed feds have been told to stay away from all federal facilities.

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 08:36 AM
My college buddy is a fed in Seattle. He is furloughed. He and the rest of the furloughed feds have been told to stay away from all federal facilities.

How did they decide who'd be furloughed?

BlueMoon
07-28-2011, 08:49 AM
Young? If you take 1/2 your age plus 8 and Miss 80ktsclamp is still ethically in your age range then you're young.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110223210360/harrypotter/images/3/3d/Emma-Watson.jpg

So she's 21. So 26 or younger is young. 27 and older is old.


I thought it was 1/2 your age plus 7....At least that has been what I've been using.

BlueMoon
07-28-2011, 08:50 AM
I think the D.C. problem could be fixed if congress' lucrative pensions were eradicated.


And a 2 term limit. This professional politician career needs to end.

Check Essential
07-28-2011, 08:56 AM
Young? If you take 1/2 your age plus 8 and Miss 80ktsclamp is still ethically in your age range then you're young.


Now this is a young crew:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nlHCX_Krpc0/SwHzHWVQsLI/AAAAAAAAAbE/8OvbsNr48Nw/s1600/img_8450.jpg

Check Essential
07-28-2011, 08:58 AM
oops. My bad.
I hate oversized pics.

Apologies.

Superpilot92
07-28-2011, 09:31 AM
Definition of young equals what = ?

At work people say I'm young but when I'm home my kids think I'm old so who knows! ;)

buzzpat
07-28-2011, 09:39 AM
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1426/1321509586_daeba4255e.jpg

You're brilliant FTB. Yep, that was pretty much it.:D

buzzpat
07-28-2011, 09:43 AM
I'm 99% certain it doesn't. Your RAW won't increase until the trip starts.

That's correct. It starts updating once you're operating.

Lifeisgood
07-28-2011, 09:43 AM
Sorry if it's been asked before:

Any intel on the timeline of next AE in ref to early outs?

Thx

Carl Spackler
07-28-2011, 09:51 AM
Just a little backfiring. Must be a bad piston.

IEolhFCPieQ

Wow. When did McDonnel Douglas start making engines??

Carl

nwaf16dude
07-28-2011, 10:14 AM
Just a little backfiring. Must be a bad piston.

IEolhFCPieQ

Looks like the Fetzer valve to me...

buzzpat
07-28-2011, 10:18 AM
I thought it was 1/2 your age plus 7....At least that has been what I've been using.

1/2 my age plus 2 worked for me. Just celebrated our 14th. (And she'll ALWAYS be younger than me).;)

Maddoggin
07-28-2011, 10:24 AM
Any other tidbits from the crew room chat? I was too busy cleaning the house to go......

They went over the company financials a little bit as well as fall capacity cuts and why. Nothing really new here. Crew planning did say they were surprised by the number of early outs but even with that as of today we are in line to be adequately staffed for summer 2012 (no 2011 hiring). This, however, does not take into account the slot swap and FTDT as well as if the block time for summer 2012 goes up. Doesn't sound like there will be a quick clean up bid but rather a normal bid come oct to nov time frame. DC-9 MEM looks like it may be closed on this bid and also the 737 DTW being looked at. The slot swap seems like it's a big driver of the next bid. The 330 is the one that may have a supply problem. With guys taking the early out, shift to 12 hour flights, and moving sims to ATL we may get behind the curve. Looking at outside sims to accommodate the extra training there. There are also still running the numbers on retirements and how to manage those. Thats about all I can remember.

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 10:56 AM
Now this is a young crew:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nlHCX_Krpc0/SwHzHWVQsLI/AAAAAAAAAbE/8OvbsNr48Nw/s1600/img_8450.jpg

Had those girls been wearing my hat all you'd seen is their necklaces. When I put my hat on my daughters head it might as well be a bucket.

I think I may have one of the largest hat sizes around. :D

hoserpilot
07-28-2011, 11:27 AM
How did they decide who'd be furloughed?

His job falls under airports and facilities which is funded directly from the tax which is not being collected. All the construction projects, inspections ect come from this fund.

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 11:34 AM
I thought it was 1/2 your age plus 7....At least that has been what I've been using.

Well. Let's talk about it.

AIRLINE: APCF L&G DAL COUNCIL: 01
CITY: Anonymous
DATE: July 28, 2011

A regular meeting of APC L&G Council 01 was held in Anonymous on July 28, 2011.

Officers Present
All Withheld

Members Present
All Ya'll
Attendance roster is on file at APCF.

1500 CALL TO ORDER

Check Essential called the meeting to order.

Officer Reports
Carl Spackler discussed current issues with DALPA, ALPA and DPA.

Carl Spakler discussed, to jeers in the room, personal issues with Carl Spackler and that the DPA is nothing but NWA pilots who want to overturn the SLI in their favor.

FTB discussed changing Carl Spakler's name to Taternuts.

Check Essential apologized for an oversize picture posting.

80ktsclamp apologized for Check Essential apology for oversize pictures.

rahc requested a discussion on raw scores.

FTB discussed the guilty pleasure of toying with non-pilots posting on APCF as pilots.

Deadhead discussed the nations debt and budgets.

Bar discussed financial and macro industry directional things that are pretty darn confusing.

Fedelta discussed Hong Kong and first year pay at Fedex, mumbling could be heard about a $100,000 a year salary while some mumbled about whether Delta would open a Hong Kong base while Ferd angrily demanded a Hong Kong base.

Bar discussed the need for young pilots to consider leaving Delta Air Lines for another airline.

Lobo discussed what the definition of young is.

Several pilots blurted out nonsensical definitions.

Bluemoon discussed the need to clarify if it is 1/2 your age + 7 or 1/2 your age + 8.

Buzz discussed the long term advantages and benefits of 1/2 your age + nothing much.

Tsquare discussed the benefits of moving to Utah.

Silence filled the forum.

NEW BUSINESS
Resolution to Redefine the Definition of "Acceptable Age Difference” as 1/2 age + 7.

Maker: Bluemoon
Second: Buzzpat
Thirded: Lobo

WHEREAS it would be far more fun to make the rule 1/2 your age but not less than 18.

WHEREAS 1/2 of 50 is 25, plus 8 is 33 but plus 7 is 32. None of which are 30 or under.

WHEREAS 1/2 of 35 plus 7 is 24. Not bad, but not as good as 17.5 which is rounded up to 18.

WHEREAS 30 can be a lot hotter than 20.

WHEREAS 80ktsclamp disagrees completely.

WHEREAS women hit their sexual peak between 35-40.

WHEREAS 80ktsclamp agrees further discussion warranted.

WHEREAS no matter how old we get, coeds stay the same age... and stay just as emotionally unstable and not in the mood to be treated like a commodity as they've always been.

WHEREAS it would be more fun to live in sexually lawless Utah.

Passed: Unanimous

Resolution to exempt picture posting on Airline Pilot Central Forums Any Latest & Greatest about Delta for 1/2 age + 7 rule and live in envy of the lifestyle of a Los Angeles based play boy author / 737 pilot:

WHEREAS pictures are not emotional and do not talk.

WHEREAS we're not as cool as Buzz.

Passed: Unanimous

1534 Meeting adjorned.

gloopy
07-28-2011, 11:40 AM
Did not look at the volume, but I believe that Wall Street is losing its nerve wrt to DAL. We blasted though our 52 week lows a few weeks ago, got the added capacity cuts that I feared, and now the investors are at the point where DAL is not making the money they want, and CASM will start going up due to less ASM's.

I suspect that there is pressure on the leadership team to do something besides to stay the course.

Like compete and win? Or more cut, merge, cut, repeat?

newKnow
07-28-2011, 11:45 AM
"It continued: “We urge the nation’s airlines to put all of the profits that they are making from the lapse of the aviation taxes into an escrow account” so they can be transferred back into the government’s Airport and Airway Trust Fund when Congress reinstates the taxes, adding that “our nation’s aviation system cannot afford to have this tax revenue siphoned off by the industry.”

I think this is the real key. None of the airlines believe that the govt. is just going to let this money go. They are going to come after it once the FAA gets funding. Then it would just come out of the bottom line. I heard at the crew lounge visit yesterday that this is exactly what we are doing. We are putting the money in escrow so that when the govt. comes looking for it we will have it. Just a another way for the govt to shift the focus off of them. Why this isn't our official statement is beyond me. We sure are getting bad press of this.

Um. So, is the government going to pay the furloughed federal workers back pay for the time they were off? :confused:

gloopy
07-28-2011, 11:47 AM
Young? If you take 1/2 your age plus 8 and Miss 80ktsclamp is still ethically in your age range then you're young.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110223210360/harrypotter/images/3/3d/Emma-Watson.jpg

So she's 21. So 26 or younger is young. 27 and older is old.

Half her age plus 8 still makes her legal by a comfortable margin.

gloopy
07-28-2011, 11:48 AM
Looks like the Fetzer valve to me...

Faulty exominator.

porpilot
07-28-2011, 11:52 AM
They went over the company financials a little bit as well as fall capacity cuts and why. Nothing really new here. Crew planning did say they were surprised by the number of early outs but even with that as of today we are in line to be adequately staffed for summer 2012 (no 2011 hiring). This, however, does not take into account the slot swap and FTDT as well as if the block time for summer 2012 goes up. Doesn't sound like there will be a quick clean up bid but rather a normal bid come oct to nov time frame. DC-9 MEM looks like it may be closed on this bid and also the 737 DTW being looked at. The slot swap seems like it's a big driver of the next bid. The 330 is the one that may have a supply problem. With guys taking the early out, shift to 12 hour flights, and moving sims to ATL we may get behind the curve. Looking at outside sims to accommodate the extra training there. There are also still running the numbers on retirements and how to manage those. Thats about all I can remember.

What was the combined size of the airline at merger compared to now?

FedElta
07-28-2011, 11:52 AM
Well. Let's talk about it.

AIRLINE: APCF L&G DAL COUNCIL: 01
CITY: Anonymous
DATE: July 28, 2011

A regular meeting of APC L&G Council 01 was held in Anonymous on July 28, 2011.

Officers Present
All Withheld

Members Present
All Ya'll
Attendance roster is on file at APCF.

1500 CALL TO ORDER

Check Essential called the meeting to order.

Officer Reports
Carl Spackler discussed current issues with DALPA, ALPA and DPA.

Carl Spakler discussed to jeers in the room personal issues with Carl Spackler and that the DPA is nothing but NWA pilots who want to overturn the SLI in their favor.

FTB discussed changing Carl Spakler's name to Taternuts.

Check Essential apologized for an oversize picture posting.

80ktsclamp apologized for Check Essential apology for oversize pictures.

rahc requested a discussion raw scores.

FTB discussed the guilty pleasure of toying with non-pilots posting on APCF as pilots.

Deadhead discussed the nations debt and budgets.

Bar discussed financial and macro industry directional things that are pretty darn confusing.

Bar discussed the need for young pilots to consider leaving Delta Air Lines for another airline.

Lobo discussed what the definition of young is.

Several pilots blurted out nonsensical definitions.

Bluemoon discussed the need to clarify if it is 1/2 your age + 7 or 1/2 your age + 8.

Buzz discussed the long term advantages and benefits of 1/2 your age + nothing much.

Tsquare discussed the benefits of moving to Utah.

Silence filled the forum.

NEW BUSINESS
Resolution to Redefine the Definition of "Acceptable Age Difference” as 1/2 age + 7.

Maker: Bluemoon
Second: Buzzpat
Thirded: Lobo

WHEREAS it would be far more fun to make the rule 1/2 your age but not less than 18.

WHEREAS 1/2 of 50 is 25, plus 8 is 33 but plus 7 is 32. None of which are 30 or under.

WHEREAS 1/2 of 35 plus 7 is 24. Not bad, but not as good as 17.5 which is rounded up to 18.

WHEREAS 30 can be a lot hotter than 20.

WHEREAS 80ktsclamp disagrees completely.

WHEREAS women hit their sexual peak between 35-40.

WHEREAS 80ktsclamp agrees further discussion warranted.

WHEREAS no matter how old we get, coeds stay the same age... and just as emotionally unstable and not in the mood to be treated like a commodity.

WHEREAS it would be more fun to live in sexually lawless Utah.

Passed: Unanimous

Resolution to exempt picture posting on Airline Pilot Central Forums Any Latest & Greatest about Delta for 1/2 age + 7 rule and live in envy of the lifestyle of a Los Angeles based play boy author / 737 pilot:

WHEREAS pictures are not emotional and do not talk.

WHEREAS we're not as cool as Buzz.

Passed: Unanimous

1534 Meeting adjorned.

I'm just not worthy !

DeadHead
07-28-2011, 11:58 AM
Exxon 2nd quarter earnings rise 41% - USATODAY.com (http://usat.ly/mZMkPz)

If anyone is looking for our profits, I think I may have found them.

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 12:19 PM
I'm just not worthy !

I added you now. Somehow the person keeping the meetings failed to insert your discussion.

sinca3
07-28-2011, 12:30 PM
FTB discussed changing Carl Spakler's name to Taternuts.

Awesome......:D

acl65pilot
07-28-2011, 01:39 PM
I added you now. Somehow the person keeping the meetings failed to insert your discussion.

Awesome, I actually missed a meeting :D

acl65pilot
07-28-2011, 01:42 PM
Does the RAW score on top of your schedule include rotations placed on your schedule that you have not flown yet?

It does, but only for trips starting on the current day. Other than that, it is for trips flown.

acl65pilot
07-28-2011, 01:50 PM
Here is another contract comparison.

http://jetblueoc.org/Portals/JBAOC/Health-Care-Premium-web.png

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 01:53 PM
Awesome, I actually missed a meeting :D

I stole real LEC meetings minutes.

So really, you were there. :D

acl65pilot
07-28-2011, 01:54 PM
http://www.jetbluefacts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/alpa-by-numbers.jpg
Interesting compare and contrast......

acl65pilot
07-28-2011, 01:55 PM
I stole real LEC meetings minutes.

So really, you were there. :D

I was at a meeting today, ya know the one that the MEC put on for the pilots that live in ATL.

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 02:16 PM
I was at a meeting today, ya know the one that the MEC put on for the pilots that live in ATL.

Aw man I couldve attended!!!!!!!!

If it had been on the Internet. I'm on an overnight.

zoomiezombie
07-28-2011, 03:01 PM
I was at a meeting today, ya know the one that the MEC put on for the pilots that live in ATL.

So what'd they say? Anybody go to the Flt Ops lounge show?

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 03:04 PM
So what'd they say? Anybody go to the Flt Ops lounge show?

Wasn't it on the internet?

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 03:08 PM
Interesting compare and contrast......

Here's another:

http://www.jetbluefacts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/100poster.jpg
http://www.jetbluefacts.com/a-picture-says-it-all/#

I know it's hard to read but so here: http://www.jetbluefacts.com/a-picture-says-it-all/

scambo1
07-28-2011, 03:10 PM
Wasn't it on the internet?


Actually, I think the ATL roadshow was held in MCO. It was the biggest turnout they had ever seen.

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 03:11 PM
And so it's 35% required to have a vote if you have no union right? Which is my question again that I heard from the guy I'm flying with - if the contract goes past the amendable date then the DPA only needs 35%+1 and not 50%+1. Is that true?

http://www.jetbluefacts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/election_process_sml2.jpg

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 03:23 PM
For a scratch your head moment:

When in Monte Carlo, everything is done in style. And that includes crashing your car.

This was the moment when a woman driver caused a £700,000 five-car pile-up as her Bentley collided with a Mercedes, Ferrari, Porsche and Aston Martin.

Disaster struck as the hapless blonde negotiated the traffic around the Place du Casino in her £250,000 Bentley Azure.

The driver of a white Mercedes S Class worth £75,000 was the first victim as the 2.7-ton Bentley scraped down the side of it before ploughing into a £143,000 black Ferrari F430.

Read more: Hapless blonde crashes £250k Bentley into FOUR other supercars | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019340/Hapless-blonde-crashes-250k-Bentley-FOUR-supercars.html#ixzz1TRfeYMNs)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/28/article-2019340-0D314EAA00000578-408_634x357.jpg

In English: :D
The crash occurred when the woman drove her $403,000 blue Bentley Azure down the main route of Place du Casino in Monaco into a $121,000 Mercedes Benz S Class, a $231,000 Ferrari 430, a $242,000 Aston Martin Rapide and a $129,000 Porsche 911.

Read more: Blonde + Bentley = One expensive fender bender | AHN (http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/90055603?Blonde%20%2B%20Bentley%20%3D%20One%20expe nsive%20fender%20bender#ixzz1TRfKZVVh)

Bucking Bar
07-28-2011, 04:53 PM
How is this push by Jet Blue management not considered "interference" ?

Funny how all the ALPA bashers resonate on the alleged "conflict of interest." Around DPA, ALPA unfairly favors express pilots, at Jet Blue, ALPA unfairly favors major pilots, how can ALPA be unfair to everyone, all the time?

ALPA's failure, is that it has failed to convince pilots how good it has been and how good it can be. Pilots do not appreciate what ALPA offers our profession, because for them, the ride has been mostly a 1.95% effort.

Check Essential
07-28-2011, 05:20 PM
And so it's 35% required to have a vote if you have no union right? Which is my question again that I heard from the guy I'm flying with - if the contract goes past the amendable date then the DPA only needs 35%+1 and not 50%+1. Is that true?



ftb-
That is NOT true. Under the Railway Labor Act, contracts remain in full effect even past the amendable date and the bargaining agent does not change unless 50% plus 1 sign cards. The DPA needs 50% either now or after the amendable date in order to trigger an election. There's no difference.

Here's the NMB regs:

§ 1206.2 Percentage of valid authorizations required to determine existence of a representation dispute.
(a) Where the employees involved in a representation dispute are represented by an individual or labor organization, either local or national in scope and are covered by a valid existing contract between such representative and the carrier a showing of proved authorizations (checked and verified as to date, signature, and employment status) from at least a majority of the craft or class must be made before the National Mediation Board will authorize an election or otherwise determine the representation desires of the employees under the provisions of section 2, Ninth, of the Railway Labor Act.
(b) Where the employees involved in a representation dispute are unrepresented, a showing of proved authorizations from at least thirty-five (35) percent of the employees in the craft or class must be made before the National Mediation Board will authorize an election or otherwise determine the representation desires of the employees under the provisions of section 2, Ninth, of the Railway Labor Act.

§ 1206.3 Age of authorization cards.
Authorizations must be signed and dated in the employee's own handwriting or witnessed mark. No authorizations will be accepted by the National Mediation Board in any employee representation dispute which bear a date prior to one year before the date of the application for the investigation of such dispute.

Herkflyr
07-28-2011, 05:23 PM
And so it's 35% required to have a vote if you have no union right? Which is my question again that I heard from the guy I'm flying with - if the contract goes past the amendable date then the DPA only needs 35%+1 and not 50%+1. Is that true?

http://www.jetbluefacts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/election_process_sml2.jpg

No that is not true, because just because we are past the "amenable" date doesn't mean that the contract has "expired" (RLA contracts don't ever expire) nor have we lost union representation. It just means the contract is "amenable."

Check Essential
07-28-2011, 05:33 PM
No that is not true, because just because we are past the "amenable" date doesn't mean that the contract has "expired" (RLA contracts don't ever expire) nor have we lost union representation. It just means the contract is "amenable."

Priceless typo.:D
We wish the contract was "amenable". Alas, its only amendable.

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 05:33 PM
You can't serve two masters. You can try. But you can't.

That's kind of the biblical answer.

scambo1
07-28-2011, 05:37 PM
You can't serve two masters. You can try. But you can't.

That's kind of the biblical answer.


Who's the master and who's the servant?

shiznit
07-28-2011, 05:43 PM
And so it's 35% required to have a vote if you have no union right? Which is my question again that I heard from the guy I'm flying with - if the contract goes past the amendable date then the DPA only needs 35%+1 and not 50%+1. Is that true?


No. The contract is amendable, but the bargaining agent doesn't cease to exist. As far as I recall, it would still require the 50%+1.

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 05:50 PM
I understand what you guys are saying about the amendable date and the RLA and that was my argument. But, I'm hearing about it.

XtremeF150
07-28-2011, 06:25 PM
So you guys that have been around the block a few times, I have a question. Today I received a call for a Gslip of show immediately we are holding the plane for you type. Didn't have anything to do so I said yes and grabbed a few things and headed to the airport. As I was walking in they call and say its CNX'd and that I have to stay in base (I live there so no prob) and I'm on call for the next 6 hours for 23K?
This was originally an off day. So this Gslip can be converted to a RSV assignement even for a REG line holder? Doesn't matter I guess they never called, but wondering If this makes a difference in my pay.

If it helps it says 23K and a G like a usual Gslip on the next 2 days of my schedule? :confused:

Phuz
07-28-2011, 06:32 PM
Gotta buy a ticket for an extended family member from ATL-DEN tomorrow, guess who is cheapest!?

Frontier: $279
AirTran: $283
Delta: $283

Just for fun, also looked at DEN-DTW

Frontier: $276
United: $357
Delta: $367


Good thing they aren't STS with Shuttle America, Chataqua, and Republic! I mean, Frontier can't afford to stand on its own at those prices!!


edit: here's a few more gems:

LAX-MCI: Frontier $306, Delta$454
LGA-MC: Frontier $280, Delta$288
MSP-MCI: Frontier $246, Delta $270
SLC-DEN: Frontier $143, Delta $147
DEN-MSP: Frontier $175, Delta $282
BOS-MCI: Frontier $231, Delta $469
MCI-AUS: Frontier: $256, Delta $310
MCI-MSY: Frontier: $237, Delta $241

I can totally see why the labor groups had to take concessions.

alfaromeo
07-28-2011, 06:42 PM
Here's another:


I know it's hard to read but so here: A Picture Says It All | JetBlue Facts (http://www.jetbluefacts.com/a-picture-says-it-all/)

So if ALPA sucks so bad, why is Jet Blue management so scared of it? Are you some sort of management stooge posting their propaganda here?

scambo1
07-28-2011, 07:16 PM
So if ALPA sucks so bad, why is Jet Blue management so scared of it? Are you some sort of management stooge posting their propaganda here?


FTB you're busted. Get back to the 4th floor so Alfa can suck up to you! Stat!:eek:

Reroute
07-28-2011, 07:59 PM
You can't serve two masters. You can try. But you can't.

That's kind of the biblical answer.So captains should have one union and F/O another. Old pilot one union and young pilots another. Because of the conflict of interests.

Or perhaps we can see ourselves not as tribes, but as members of a profession working together and pooling our resources to protect our common interests, but yet giving each bargaining unit the autonomy to elect their own reps, who elect their own officers and negotiators, to set their own negotiating priorities and then evaluate each contract and if it satisfies their pilots priorities, ratify their own agreements. Hmmmm. Maybe that's the ticket.

Reroute
07-28-2011, 08:05 PM
Here's another:

http://www.jetbluefacts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/100poster.jpg
http://www.jetbluefacts.com/a-picture-says-it-all/#

I know it's hard to read but so here: A Picture Says It All | JetBlue Facts (http://www.jetbluefacts.com/a-picture-says-it-all/)Wait a minute!!! Wait just one minute!

Are you trying to tell me that 83.3% of operating income is spent on DAL,FDX,UAL and CAL? According to your link only 4% is spent on the tier B carriers?

That just can't be!

Why Carl and the DPA shills keep telling us our dues money goes to the regionals.

Sorry, FTB, your link just has to be wrong, because the DPA would never mislead us.:rolleyes:

ITSALLGOOD
07-28-2011, 08:45 PM
So you guys that have been around the block a few times, I have a question. Today I received a call for a Gslip of show immediately we are holding the plane for you type. Didn't have anything to do so I said yes and grabbed a few things and headed to the airport. As I was walking in they call and say its CNX'd and that I have to stay in base (I live there so no prob) and I'm on call for the next 6 hours for 23K?
This was originally an off day. So this Gslip can be converted to a RSV assignement even for a REG line holder? Doesn't matter I guess they never called, but wondering If this makes a difference in my pay.

If it helps it says 23K and a G like a usual Gslip on the next 2 days of my schedule? :confused:

Xtreme, I am on Mil LV and it has been a while, so I am a little fuzzy on the rules; however, I'll take a shot at it. Once you accepted the Gslip it became part of your sked. The company has to pay you for it. Since it was then cnx, Mother D has 6 hrs to assign you something new so they can get some work out of you for all that overtime pay they owe you. If they don't assign you anything within that time, you are off until your next trip and you get paid as if you executed the Gslip trip. Free Money Brutha! I think I am real close on that but I'm sure the experts on here can correct if I'm wrong.

Jack Bauer
07-28-2011, 08:58 PM
Buy this model setup and you can feel like you are at work even when you're at home!

&#x202a;Knuffingen Airport: Impressionen bei Tage / Impressions by Day&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_06qrFnvnw&feature=player_embedded)

Maybe they should build airports where you have to takeoff and land through a square hole like this. Keep things interesting.

Jesse
07-28-2011, 09:39 PM
No. The raw score will change the day of the trip even before you started it but not if they give you a trip for tomorrow.

For instance if you have a typical ATL M88 B raw score of 354 and have another 4 day tomorrow then it's still 354. Tomorrow it will jump to 401.

Yes. For anyone wondering, triple digit raw scores are common now on ATL M88 B but none of them break 70 hours. It is hell. I feel very sorry for Jesse. I think he was contemplating throwing himself down the stairwell at the crewroom to have a break. but I'm sure the company doctor would've fixed him up and put him back out on the line. It's very sad.

I wouldn't bid this if you don't really hate yourself with a passion.

:D

Took me a while to get back to you on this one FTB. I was on a four day. Got another short call tomorrow, but shouldn't get anything thrown my way with 69.2 hours for the month now. Envy your seniority...someday I'll have a low RAW score like that.:D

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 10:06 PM
So if ALPA sucks so bad, why is Jet Blue management so scared of it? Are you some sort of management stooge posting their propaganda here?

Alfa.

ACL posted this below on page 7246 before I made my post:

http://www.jetbluefacts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/alpa-by-numbers.jpg
Interesting compare and contrast......

It really made no sense because who in the heck made that? Jetblue has 0 furloughs? Who cares? What is this?

So I right clicked for the source because I couldn't figure out what this thing was (pro or against ALPA) and it came up as a jetblue website. So 5 posts later I posted some of their more pertinent stuff. Not hard to do. Took a few seconds.

I hate to say it, but after a few second look back I noticed your last post on this thread was 7202. As a technique - just a technique - start at 7202 and work forward and you could've asked ACL why he posts Jetblue stooge stuff. ;)

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 10:15 PM
FTB you're busted. Get back to the 4th floor so Alfa can suck up to you! Stat!:eek:

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000760799/polls_snicker_2058_292790_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg

But I'm confused, am I a Delta management stooge or a Jetblue management stooge?

And why would Delta ever have a problem with ALPA?


Today, November 17th, 2010, a Delta Air Lines management representative from the Detroit Chief Pilots Office called interim DPA President Tim Caplinger and requested he cease and desist all organizing efforts in all Flight Operations controlled areas around the Delta system. The representative defined Flight Operations areas as any area that Flight Operations controls including pilot bag rooms, lounges, computer areas and even the hallways and niches connecting those areas. To date, Delta Pilots Association has been very considerate of Flight Operations and has not sought to disturb daily operations in any way. Our organizing efforts have been simply handing out business cards and posting temporary 8.5"x11" paper signs identifying our presence. These signs were taken down as the representative left the area. It is important to note that solicitations for other organizations were allowed in these areas and we were set up next to those solicitations already allowed by the company. This conflict of policy is being investigated by our legal team.

This event marks the second time this month DPA has experienced interference in our organizing efforts. Atlanta based pilots were shut down this last Sunday by a representative of the Atlanta Chief Pilots office requiring the DPA member to remove the sign attached to his rollerbag handle. As in all cases, the DPA representative respectfully complied immediately with the request and terminated all activity. Photos were obtained and the details were reported for use in potential National Mediation Board or Federal litigation. The DPA membership will always maintain professional bearing and will work with Delta management to obtain reasonable organizing conditions. It has always been the desire of DPA to keep our campaign out of the public eyes, especially as we approach the holiday travel season. The current position Delta management is taking is literally forcing the DPA campaign out into the concourse amongst our valued passengers. Please watch the effect pilot campaigning had on USAirways passengers on Tuesday at Washington, D.C.'s Reagan National Airport.

http://www.tbd.com/articles/2010/11/us-airways-pilots-at-reagan-national-airport-protest-lower-pay-pensions-32272.html

While DPA believes Delta management's request for DPA to cease all organizing efforts is flawed, we will comply with the request while legal arguments are prepared. We will also continue to campaign in other venues and in new areas like public concourses in local airports. Appropriate permits will be obtained and we will present ourselves professionally to the travelling public.

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 10:31 PM
So captains should have one union and F/O another. Old pilot one union and young pilots another. Because of the conflict of interests.

Weak.

A Captain, First Officer, old pilot, young pilot, senior pilot or junior pilot are all Delta pilots. No? Were we not all hired by Delta?

Just out of curiosity, are you currently employed with Delta and ASA and Comair and Pinnacle and Mesaba and Alaska and hopefully soon, Republic Airways?

And by the premise of your response, I take it you think ALPA National can serve all of those airline pilots even when they compete for the same jobs?

Or perhaps we can see ourselves not as tribes, but as members of a profession working together and pooling our resources to protect our common interests,

Delta has X amount of flights to perform.

DCI wants as much of those jobs as they can get. Delta pilots want to have all of the jobs associated with that flying.

ALPA represents all of them.

There's no conflict of interest when it comes to who gets to do Delta flying, right?

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/ForgottoBid/temp7-2.jpg?t=1311920669

Hypothetical to Reroute and Alfa, would you support ending DCI and Alaska flying if Delta wanted to end DCI and Alaska flying? Would ALPA National give it a green light?

but yet giving each bargaining unit the autonomy to elect their own reps, who elect their own officers and negotiators, to set their own negotiating priorities and then evaluate each contract and if it satisfies their pilots priorities, ratify their own agreements. Hmmmm. Maybe that's the ticket.

...and to elect our own MEC Chairman so that change can be affected with far less roadblocks than today, yes? Would DALPA accept a resolution for direct election of the MEC Chairman by a majority pilot vote say every 2 years? Is there any reason why DALPA would not support such a simple and justifiable change to the current structure?

If its the ticket, let me ask something, is our pay as high as SWA's or scope as strong as SWA's today and will it be in 2014?

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 10:59 PM
Wait a minute!!! Wait just one minute!

Are you trying to tell me that 83.3% of operating income is spent on DAL,FDX,UAL and CAL? According to your link only 4% is spent on the tier B carriers?

That just can't be!

Why Carl and the DPA shills keep telling us our dues money goes to the regionals.

Sorry, FTB, your link just has to be wrong, because the DPA would never mislead us.

My link... to what Jetblue management says... is a link to what Jetblue management says. It could be wrong. ;) DPA says this, if you want to do a book report have at it: http://www.delta-pilots.org/storage/docs/DPA_ATIS_Information_DELTA.pdf

And they put this out. Don't know if it's true or not. You have the numbers. You can post it if you want. Just make sure you include the FPL stuff too. :D

http://www.delta-pilots.org/storage/images/current_dues_allocation.png?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVER SION=1293504366172

Now, Jetblue says:

1. The big 4 MEC's get $13.20 of pilot wage dues sent to Herndon while the other MECs only get $2.47.

They didn't mention how much of the pilot pay sent to Herndon is from the big 4 and all others. Is it 5.3 x as much? Or in another way, if their other numbers are right, does the big 4 provide 81 million to Herndon and all others provides 18 million a year?

I believe there were some numbers once alluding to the "others" get something like $1.20 of every $1 they give and I guess the "big 4" get less than a $1 for every $1 they spent. Is that true?

2. How often do the other MECs dip into the SMRA? They don't show that here.

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 11:11 PM
Took me a while to get back to you on this one FTB. I was on a four day. Got another short call tomorrow, but shouldn't get anything thrown my way with 69.2 hours for the month now. Envy your seniority...someday I'll have a low RAW score like that.:D

I'm sorry to hear about that. I am thankful our prayers were answered and you're still alive.

Those prayers were from me and the preacher at the airport chapel. We need to pray for him now. Last I saw he was getting tazered by airport police for talking to an ATL 88 B. It's sad.

forgot to bid
07-28-2011, 11:38 PM
I just feel like posting this:

http://laist.com/attachments/la_jimmy/101105.jpg

DeadHead
07-29-2011, 03:10 AM
So you guys that have been around the block a few times, I have a question. Today I received a call for a Gslip of show immediately we are holding the plane for you type. Didn't have anything to do so I said yes and grabbed a few things and headed to the airport. As I was walking in they call and say its CNX'd and that I have to stay in base (I live there so no prob) and I'm on call for the next 6 hours for 23K?
This was originally an off day. So this Gslip can be converted to a RSV assignement even for a REG line holder? Doesn't matter I guess they never called, but wondering If this makes a difference in my pay.

If it helps it says 23K and a G like a usual Gslip on the next 2 days of my schedule? :confused:

Did you still receive full GS trip credit?
Was the flight CNX or was it reassigned? if CNX why?

If they put you on 23K, I'm thinking that you should receive the full GS trip credit. Not sure as to the legality of being able to place you on 23K.

RunFast
07-29-2011, 03:26 AM
...............

DAL 88 Driver
07-29-2011, 03:45 AM
weak.

A captain, first officer, old pilot, young pilot, senior pilot or junior pilot are all delta pilots. No? Were we not all hired by delta?

Just out of curiosity, are you currently employed with delta and asa and comair and pinnacle and mesaba and alaska and hopefully soon, republic airways?

And by the premise of your response, i take it you think alpa national can serve all of those airline pilots even when they compete for the same jobs?



Delta has x amount of flights to perform.

Dci wants as much of those jobs as they can get. Delta pilots want to have all of the jobs associated with that flying.

Alpa represents all of them.

There's no conflict of interest when it comes to who gets to do delta flying, right?

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/forgottobid/temp7-2.jpg?t=1311920669

hypothetical to reroute and alfa, would you support ending dci and alaska flying if delta wanted to end dci and alaska flying? Would alpa national give it a green light?



...and to elect our own mec chairman so that change can be affected with far less roadblocks than today, yes? Would dalpa accept a resolution for direct election of the mec chairman by a majority pilot vote say every 2 years? Is there any reason why dalpa would not support such a simple and justifiable change to the current structure?

If its the ticket, let me ask something, is our pay as high as swa's or scope as strong as swa's today and will it be in 2014?

this!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Pineapple Guy
07-29-2011, 04:02 AM
Just out of curiosity, are you currently employed with Delta and ASA and Comair and Pinnacle and Mesaba and Alaska and hopefully soon, Republic Airways?

And by the premise of your response, I take it you think ALPA National can serve all of those airline pilots even when they compete for the same jobs?

If DPA wins, I plan to launch a union replacement drive to form an ATL union. We compete with SEA, CVG, MEM for the same jobs, and I'm tired of them taking my flying.

Delta has X amount of flights to perform.

DCI wants as much of those jobs as they can get. Delta pilots want to have all of the jobs associated with that flying.

ALPA represents all of them.

There's no conflict of interest when it comes to who gets to do Delta flying, right?

Exact same analogy goes for my ATL base. You can't have one union representing pilots from all the different bases -- can't be done. Yet DPA would represent all of them. Not right.


...and to elect our own MEC Chairman so that change can be affected with far less roadblocks than today, yes? Would DALPA accept a resolution for direct election of the MEC Chairman by a majority pilot vote say every 2 years? Is there any reason why DALPA would not support such a simple and justifiable change to the current structure?

Yeah, that's working so well at APA isn't it? The guy who pandered the most got the most votes. Good plan.

Dirtdiver
07-29-2011, 04:05 AM
Did you still receive full GS trip credit?
Was the flight CNX or was it reassigned? if CNX why?

If they put you on 23K, I'm thinking that you should receive the full GS trip credit. Not sure as to the legality of being able to place you on 23K.



You get single pay for the cnx trip. I had the same deal this week. I believe 23K has you on the hook for 6 hours from scheduled show time, with restrictions on when they must block you back in. They never called me in the window. Not bad pay for packing a bag and driving to the airport.

DeadHead
07-29-2011, 04:20 AM
You get single pay for the cnx trip. I had the same deal this week. I believe 23K has you on the hook for 6 hours from scheduled show time, with restrictions on when they must block you back in. They never called me in the window. Not bad pay for packing a bag and driving to the airport.

If they did get you on a trip do you get single pay for the CNX trip plus what ever you end up flying or just GS pay for what you end up flying?

Check Essential
07-29-2011, 05:21 AM
If they did get you on a trip do you get single pay for the CNX trip plus what ever you end up flying or just GS pay for what you end up flying?

Answer:
Single pay and credit for whichever rotation has highest time. Single pay and no credit for the 23k trip.

See Section 23.U.6.c.1.a -- Example 3.

Columbia
07-29-2011, 05:22 AM
I just feel like posting this:

http://laist.com/attachments/la_jimmy/101105.jpg

Sxo9wGA9qYg

Check Essential
07-29-2011, 05:34 AM
.
Is it true that the moderators have declared this "Body Paint Friday"?

http://yeeeah.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/abbey-clancey-body-paint-si-4.jpg

tsquare
07-29-2011, 05:38 AM
If DPA wins, I plan to launch a union replacement drive to form an ATL union. We compete with SEA, CVG, MEM for the same jobs, and I'm tired of them taking my flying.



Exact same analogy goes for my ATL base. You can't have one union representing pilots from all the different bases -- can't be done. Yet DPA would represent all of them. Not right.




Yeah, that's working so well at APA isn't it? The guy who pandered the most got the most votes. Good plan.

I give up on posting a picture on this forum.. just sayin' It's too hard. Anyway, this PG post is just a failure...

Check Essential
07-29-2011, 05:39 AM
If DPA wins, I plan to launch a union replacement drive to form an ATL union. We compete with SEA, CVG, MEM for the same jobs, and I'm tired of them taking my flying.

Exact same analogy goes for my ATL base. You can't have one union representing pilots from all the different bases -- can't be done. Yet DPA would represent all of them. Not right.

That's a good attempt at rebuttal but the analogy fails because you can take your seniority and fly out of SEA, CVG or MEM if you wish.

scambo1
07-29-2011, 05:44 AM
That's a good attempt at rebuttal but the analogy fails because you can take your seniority and fly out of SEA, CVG or MEM if you wish.


Yeah, just like RAH.

Rather B Fishin
07-29-2011, 05:48 AM
Weak.

And by the premise of your response, I take it you think ALPA National can serve all of those airline pilots even when they compete for the same jobs?

News flash, they currently do


DCI wants as much of those jobs as they can get. Delta pilots want to have all of the jobs associated with that flying.

DCI can "want" all day long. It is Delta flying that DELTA pilots have negotiated away in Section 1 of our PWA

ALPA represents all of them.

There's no conflict of interest when it comes to who gets to do Delta flying, right?

No because it's Delta flying.


Hypothetical to Reroute and Alfa, would you support ending DCI and Alaska flying if Delta wanted to end DCI and Alaska flying? Would ALPA National give it a green light?

News flash number 2, ALPA national already has. Last time I checked CAL pilots were part of ALPA. Their section 6 opener is a continuation of 50 seat scope. News flash number 3. We got rid of Mesa flying. Is there a double secret probation DFR suit that nobody knows about????

...and to elect our own MEC Chairman so that change can be affected with far less roadblocks than today, yes? Would DALPA accept a resolution for direct election of the MEC Chairman by a majority pilot vote say every 2 years? Is there any reason why DALPA would not support such a simple and justifiable change to the current structure?

Sometimes it's hard to admit it, but yes, there are people who are smarter and have more information than the average line pilot. I want a rep who has full disclosure (via non-disclosure agreements) and the info on the table to make the right decision. I don't want 64 year old Joe Smoe who wants his A fund back picking the next MEC chair.

If its the ticket, let me ask something, is our pay as high as SWA's or scope as strong as SWA's today and will it be in 2014?

Was SWA's pay and work rules as high or strong as our's were back in C2K?

scambo1
07-29-2011, 05:56 AM
As a big fan of the L&G crack, even I must admit that we've gotten a little mudslingy in the last week or so. So, since I havent kept my ear to the ground lately, are there any rumors floating around out there that might have legs? ie: 717s, mergers, acquisitions, fleet renewal, 2012 summer flying, alpa opener, etc.

DeadHead
07-29-2011, 06:04 AM
As a big fan of the L&G crack, even I must admit that we've gotten a little mudslingy in the last week or so. So, since I havent kept my ear to the ground lately, are there any rumors floating around out there that might have legs? ie: 717s, mergers, acquisitions, fleet renewal, 2012 summer flying, alpa opener, etc.

Yeah, and what's the deal with this whole DPA thing??? :rolleyes: